Guild Wars 2

@Drarnor: Personally, I think “Suffer!” should transfer 2 conditions to each enemy hit, that way it’s a little more effective 1v1 and in team fights. Though, 1v1 is much less important in this case

Everything that mentions working in Shroud works both in Reaper Shroud and Death Shroud. So, yes. Both of those traits affect RS

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

We’re unsure if that’s a bug or not, since on your debuff bar, you get “Reaper’s Frost” instead of “stunned.” It seems like it is actually an unbreakable effect like Ice Bow 5.

Which, given the cooldown of the elite, is quite fitting. Executioner’s Scythe is better to question.

Even so, two short duration extra-hard CC abilities on necro would be nice to keep around. Considering Reaper could use all the melee help it could get, I don’t see a problem with it. Also, RS 5 only stuns/freezes one target, so it’s not really that bad (side note: So glad that the hit box for the skill got increased to be the entire ice field. Managed to snag someone with the very edge yesterday in PvP and it was great)

Samhayn.2385:

Daredevil with staff is a tough fight 1v1, I found 1v1 on my build tougher then when me and my buddy on rev did 2v3or4. I found reaper excellent in the chaos of a larger fight.

That was my favorite part of hits BWE. We got to go into team fights. And we got to thrive there. So much AoE all the time means that we can further the chaos, throw off skill rotations and ruin an enemy team’s day

Nyth.3492:

Looking back at the beta, and some footage.

I do think that reaper has got an awful lot of damage for the tankiness they bring. I don’t think it’s “elementalist OP”, but it’s definitely strong on conquest play for example.
Problem is you can’t just flat out nerf reaper, because it still has the big weaknesses I mentioned before (no active defenses; easily CC-able with minor coordination/timing; next to 0 ranged options and low on gap closers)

It does bring a lot of tankiness, for sure. As well as pretty decent damage. However, it only melts your opponent if they’re total glass cannon. So, realistically, we’re pretty well off with Reaper and other classes are just upset that they can’t beat us easily anymore

gavyne.6847:

This ability can be blocked, I used it and watched 5 block message popup on my screen and almost cried. This long cast, 2 min elite skill, needs to be unblockable. Or reduce cd and/or cast time on it.

Pretty much after seeing 5 blocked messages, I took it off and reloaded plague. It’s useless if a 2 min, long cast elite can be completely useless. Especially given I get nothing out of it for using it if I don’t hit people.

Set it up with NCSY and you’re fine. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, there’s actually good reason to take full shouts. That reason being: They have good synergy with each other and, while not the most damaging skills (wish they did about twice what they actually do now) they do set you as the Reaper (and your allies) to cut through your opponents. Unblockable elite skill that is an unbreakable stun and long duration AoE chill that also grants stability is quite nice

Charblaze.6958:

Highly relevant to the discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFlh6nleAd0

We can be actually good if they don’t nerf Reaper’s sustain before people learn how to deal with the elite specialization.

Reaper Shroud is pretty much a walking AoE. You don’t stand in a Lava fonts, Wells, or Rapid fire, you try to get away from them. They should do the same when you enter Reaper Shroud. Foes should rotate out of a fight too, or go ranged, once they go below 50% HP. Any player near a Reaper with <50% HP is setting himself up for a burst and giving it free sustain.

By ganging up close against a Reaper as if it was a regular a Necromancer you are actually doing it favor.

Shhhh…. We want them to keep trying to focus us in a team fight

Necropolis.6017:

Stay away from GS reaper and Dps from far, their control is strong and Dps is high in close range. Just like fighting a ranpage hammer GS warrior, I guess

The irony in Necro becoming somewhat like one of its hardest counters is just… so great. Soooo great

Still, I’m gonna say it’s better overall. It seems to be just a bug making it do the weird somersaults, and, frankly, I like being able to do the nearly 2k burst at the end of the charge and do damage to someone as well as blind them basically every time I use it

Rain.9213:

I really liked the GS also. It’s slow and methodical but guess what? That’s the Reaper in a nutshell xD

I’ve used it to great success in PvP as well coupled with Staff for range and condition removal. Works great. Beat a lot of things.

Soul Marks at range to AoE bomb a bit, then get close with GS and Shouts. Messes up an enemy team in an XvX team fight wonderfully

Sinzaku.2980:

spoj.9672:

Sublimatio.6981:

Bug I’ve discovered: can’t use gs5 if you’re not facing a mob but staying still (normally the char would turn around after clicking the skill if you’re not moving)
this also applies to gs3

This explains why those 2 skills felt so awful, buggy and unresponsive during my bloom solo.

Yea this is really annoying, also the 600 range limit is very bad and should be buffed to 900.
This is the only thing i do like to see changed on reaper rest seems pretty good.

But that 300 range increase should keep the same cast speed

In stronghold, specifically, Reaper seems quite good. Just played a match (first time, to be honest) and only died a single time, even though I went looking for team fights. When, as a necro, you can kill someone and chase off one or two of their friends, it’s….. so satisfying. Granted, no one is really used to Stronghold yet, but it went well and I am very pleased with how Reaper performs now (other than the clunkiness that ronpierce mentioned)

My build for reference

Kodama.6453:

Your soul is mine is the healing skill with the lowest CD in the entire game. It just takes 13 seconds to recharge if you trait for it. To buff it’s healing and also let it give you life force would be totally op.

For a soldier or sentinel build, though, it’s a blip on the radar as is. We’re not saying to buff it into the sky, just make the base 5240 like WoB and CC. Hell, make it a flat 5k heal and it’d be good to go. But 4k on a class that runs tankier stats on a regular basis is minimal. Not bad, but very minimal

Yeah, bit lackluster in the aggression department… Although, at the same time, hearing a male Sylvari say “Your soul is mine” that way seems like it would be rather condescending to your opponent, because you just sound so… bored

Bhawb.7408:

Shouts are actually pretty strong right now, Suffer! is the only really weak one, though CttB (CDR, I’d say 90s base) and YSIM (1.0 healing power ratio on the healing) could use a wee bit more work and Rise! needs better models. However I’ve been using a Soldier full shout build, and it is really strong.

Same here, Bhawb. I still think YSIM should have a bit of a base heal buff, and maybe Augury could give each shout an additional effect along with the CDR, but otherwise the shouts are nice in PvE. Hell, even in PvP, if you go for the group fights (which, up to this point, was not the beeeest idea as a necro) you actually do quite well and can swing the fight in your favor

Played a match on the Khylo map yesterday and my team pushed so hard we ended up at the enemy’s base. While there, a ranger was trying to pick us off from up on the ledge (because of course.) I figured GS 5 probably wouldn’t work on such a high-up target, but eventually I just thought “what the hell” and tried it. Put simply, there was both a surprised ranger and reaper when it actually worked.

So, yeah. Even though it still bugs at times, the overall mechanics of it are great. Quite nice to have a pull on one of our weapons, finally

psychopoweranger.7564:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

You people kill me. Try another class, then come back and tell me how awesome we are, totally delusional i swear. A Tempest can out damage you, a guardian can make you inept as far as survival? What the are you playing?

What is wrong with you?

Yeah, Reaper actually is quite survivable. Running around Solo in Verdant Brink? No problem. The only thing that has given me trouble is a smokescale or two. Those guys are evil. But I can fight a couple archer frogs and a Nuhoc (Nuhoc and at least one archer as veterans) and come out alive, so long as I don’t mess up. Does it take a little while? Yes. But I don’t die (Soldier Reaper)

Khristophoros.7194:

This is making me think maybe Necro needs some traits that ramp up passive bonuses over time in combat without a cap or a very high cap.

Actually… This would even make sense in PvP. Think about the necromancer’s supposed theme: Attrition. It’s supposed to be able to wear out an opponent in a fight. Whether PvE creature or PvP player. To have something that increases a necro’s combat strength in one or multiple ways the longer a fight goes on would fit that theme perfectly. And it would certainly punish players who can’t burst you down fast enough. The longer you let them live, the more dangerous you are. The longer a fight goes on against a boss in a raid, as they get closer to Rage, the necro also gets stronger to boost the damage and ability of the group overall, to try and negate the boss’ power by cutting it down.

I’m not sure how this/these traits or abilities would work, but it would fit necro. Further, to use the theme more, fighting a necro would be like trying to fight of Death himself. The longer you fight, the older (weaker) you get until finally you are overwhelmed. And to make up for that strength, we are, of course, still not very mobile

Shiki.7148:

nearlight.3064:

nekretaal.6485:

We could even ask players on what specifically to test now.

(1) Does reaper shroud still melt off super quick
(2) Can you hit anybody who is good with your slow and telegraphed skills (especially daredevils)
(3) Is Greatsword 5 still impossibly bad
(4) is greatsword 4 still tiny
(5) Does RS 2 work now?
(6) Is Reaper Damage good enough considering that you are a limited mobility glass cannon who can’t easily self buff without long ramp up time
(6a) How does Reaper damage compare to other class damage
(7) Do dhuumfire builds work? <my guess is no because reaper shroud melts too fast>
(8) Are any of the shouts worthwhile?
(9) Do you see anything unique in the class that will get the class a spot in a 10 person raid
(10) Can a reaper take down a break bar? Or are those I win buttons against the reaper
(11) can you get chill to actually stick on enemies long enough for it to let you get to attack?
(12) Does Reaper’s Onslaught work?
(12a) The numbers coefficients say that Reaper shroud auto is poor damage, is this true in game?

Just thought I’d answer some of these that are obvious.
8. I’d say the heal shout is probably viable with the changes. Hopefully rise will be viable on MM builds, while the others could fulfill niche slot skills on power-bruiser builds that can’t take spite for the signet spam. Shouts are probably better than untrained signets.
9. There’s transfusion, vamp aura, and epidemic.
10. I don’t think it matters much considering that the only break bars we have so far are earth overload and crystalline hibernation, which are mainly defensive skills. The earth overload is being buffed with its damage, but it’ll still be pretty low. In general breakbeats are designed so that focus fire in a teamfight has to break them, unless you play specific Mesmer builds designed for that niche task.

Everything else I’m mostly optimistic about, but this is a good frame of reference to keep in mind. I’d just suggest keeping build ideas open. To me, much of the reaper’s kit is designed to make a teamfight oriented bruiser build, not a squishy condi bomber or slow glass cannon,

To add to #10 : They are currently looking into making cripple and chill damage breakbars. Depending on how much, yes Reaper will be able too, and that might possibly also earn the spot on a Raid… Or would if Mesmers couldn’t daze/stun about as much as a reaper chills.

If they make chill damage a breakbar, then RS 5 will be an even weightier skill to use, especially combined with RS 4

nekretaal.6485:

Op doesn’t read the forum much. That’s all we’ve been talking about for the last month!

Add Scepter and Offhand Dagger to the list of weapons that are low tier and need a rework (not just improved traits or w/e)

And staff to a lesser extent, don’t forget

Sagat.3285:

Bhawb.7408:

No offense to ANet, but they aren’t known for being good players. I’ve seen their PvP streams more than enough to know I wouldn’t trust them when it comes to high level gameplay. Necromancer would need some insane buffs to be worth bringing over Ele.

I can’t be the only one thinking ele is be too potent basically everything is compared to ele every class but necro and ranger have a specific strength to offer like stealth,support,reflects etc. I don’t trust their skills but it’s better than nothing seeing them believing(for now) that necro will be on par with the rest.

I do question what’s the dps of bosses if necro survives it… It would have to be multiple small to medium attacks or else it won’t be a challenge.

I really hope it is a bunch of attacks in that range, with an occasional nuke, because in that scenario, a few seconds of invuln won’t help as much as regenerating LF and camping shroud

spoj.9672:

Well i suppose my fear that necro wouldnt have enough active defence for raids has been avoided. If they can do it internally then it cant be challening.

Unfortunately, that also means it won’t be… Well…. Challengin……

………….

………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Stacking sigils don’t work with other stacking sigils, sadly. Probably ought to put an on-swap sigil on staff (I use hydromancy)

Also, bone minions are a bit better of an option than Shadow Fiend, primarily because you can blow them up for over 2k damage each in an AoE

Spectral Wall causes enemies to flee in fear… Projectiles are a form of enemy….. Therefore projectiles could be “feared” away…….

Loophole to give Necro a wall of reflection copy

I’d say probably stick to Strength runes. They work well with necro in general, and the aoe shroud auto is great for might stacking

While we’re at it, can we get the cast/summon time reduced a bit? One second would be really nice…

Lynnie, you’re making me want to play MM more often…. xD

I used soldier gear last BWE and managed to very nearly kill the Champion Mordrem Troll in Southeast VB on my own. While using primarily GS and Shouts, with obvious use of RS. So, for me, as always, Soldier Necro/Reaper is the way to go for a power build with clear tanky overtones

Gonna throw this out there again… Necros are actually really good at being independent fighters and distractions to enemies. I think our place will be to cut at the bosses from sides or behind while others attacking from the front. or, alternately, the other way around. And certainly we can hold the line long enough for teammates to get out of dodge. Not to mention… Necros are very effective at preventing full wipes. In current content, that is only really pertinent in an unorganized group. In a raid… It seems that the idea is that it will be difficult enough that people will go down. At the very least, glass builds will.

Necro will have a place, even if it’s just a variation of what we can do now

I just want to be seen as a legitimate threat in a fight instead of a semi-free kill (completely free kill if it’s the start of a match and you get heartseeker spammed to your grave)

Who else really wishes that Necro/Reaper could have this kind of presence?

Slow.. Deliberate… But gods help you if you run into something like this. We’re supposed to be scary. Intimidating. Chilling. Can we please get to be those things?

One of my hopes is that most, if not all, types of necro skills (and skills in general) can have somewhat of a place in the content. Not every skill in each type, mind you, because that would be difficult to make work, i think. Rather, each skill type has a skill or two that has some clear benefit, whether really impactful or not quite as much, and then perhaps another skill type is more suited for this raid wing or that raid wing.

……

Mostly I just really want Reaper and its abilities to be useful and manageable in the raids, though… Because it makes me sad to think that skills that have such potential won’t get to utilize it

Well, based on the little bit Colin said about most of a Raid team clearing a path to escape a big blast from the boss and a few players staying behind to draw aggro and distract/do some dps, necro would fit that, too. Especially if non-damaging conditions affect those bosses.

If it’s a question of needing buffers to make a raid work… Necro actually isn’t a terrible choice, in that we can buff ourselves fairly well and build tanky while still retaining most of what dps we do have. Poke bosses with sticks, run around trying not to get squished, allow higher dps classes free reign. In theory

Rym.1469:

Have you seen these raids already?

Because I haven’t.

Pre-detail presumption only. Hopefully it’ll be more interesting for necros than the same old stuff

Facetanking. Being bait for the big baddies so your friends can kill them. The usual

Khristophoros.7194:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

OK so.

Assuming valk + 50% crit (be that either of our crit traits) + scholar + bloodlust on one weapon, is adding a sigil or fire or a sigil of force going to add more damager over time?

I’m guessing sof will do more damage, but with close to death and crit modifiers I’m not so sure.

It depends how much damage you deal.

There are a ton of variables involved but here’s an example with this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWBW+Fspq2P4IEvEjiXRokWA4DA-TRCEABJcIAW4CA8mugFV/Jl9HM4IA0kyPAVCCwDAIAwBwv/mv/G48zP/8zPvf/93f/93SBonyI-e

% damage stuff like Vuln, Sigil of Night, Close to Death, etc… benefit both Sigil of Force and Sigil of Fire by the same percentage so we don’t need to consider it. We do need to consider Reaper’s Onslaught because it pretty much only benefits Sigil of Force by increasing DPS over time, but it doesn’t increase the damage of Sigil of Fire.

So this has 3851 power maximum (full might and bloodlust) which means Sigil of Fire hits for 3,273.35. It can hit every 5s so it can contribute 654.67 DPS maximum per enemy.

654.67 / 0.05 = 13,093.4 <- That’s how much DPS you need to deal for Sigil of Force to be better than Sigil of Fire.

This build’s effective power when considering crit (assuming 25 vuln on the enemy for decimate defenses) is 7,097.97 which means to get to 13,093.4 DPS we need a 1.845 power coefficient per second. I’m not sure that’s possible tbh, even considering Reaper’s Onsaught.

I’m confused tbh. I thought Sigil of Force was supposed to be better than the crit proc sigils for DPS. Can anyone check my math?

The way I see it, crit-proc sigils are for builds that have consistent crit chance, whereas flat increases like sigil of force are for tankier builds without the crit chance (soldier, sentinel, cleric)

tboneking.2531:

I think it’s important to remember that RS can also spike damage with its 4 and 5 skills, the dagger auto attack is all its got for damage. So even if the 1 is slightly subpar to the dagger auto I think it will all even out. And seeing as you’re using RS you’ll probably be using dagger anyway for LF generation, not to mention that while you’re in it you can face tank a little more.

Not to mention blighter’s boon being a thing for those who don’t take reaper’s onslaught. Bit less damage, slightly more sustain. Either way, RS seems decent so far

I don’t really see why any of those amulets are banned. Soldier and Celestial are used often by necros and are part of our strongest builds. Seems a bit silly

Edit: And Cleric’s as well. So you rule out Power, Signet, and Minion Necro builds… Why not just let necros be necros?

Lightsbane.9012:

does flesh wurm still have a significant cast time?

All minions still have a 1.5 second cast time, unfortunately

Bhawb.7408:

Minions are a solid thing to use in PvE (note, don’t actually run an “MM” build, run DPS with minions) when you realize your group is garbage and needs the help. The tanking is decent.

What do mean by that, exactly, Bhawb? Would a soldier minion build fit the bill?

Anchoku.8142:

I tried Twilight Arbor with minions. :p They still died to intense AoE and conditions but were much more responsive.

Yah!

One plus to that, though, is that they tend to cap the AoE limit, which protects your team, even if they die. So, theoretically, minions might be able to be more (i.e.: actually) viable in dungeons now that they cooperate much better

Balekai.6083:

Logging in right now to check all your lies and innuendo about minions “working.” Pfft I wasn’t born yesterday.

Prepare to eat your words and cry tears of joy like the rest of us, my friend

I like your idea a lot, Bhawb. it makes sense and seems fair to everyone involved.

Can someone please explain to me why minions have so much less health in PvP/WvW than in PvE? I though Anet doesn’t like having skill splitting. Because I don’t see why making players burn through extra minion hp is such a big deal. With the amount of AoE condi fields that players throw out, minions melt a bit too easily.

So, basically, can we get a little more minion love? Scaling off of our stats, maybe? Making Flesh Wurm a teleport instead of a shadowstep? Golem stopping at a target, perhaps (though this one might be unnecessary)? Any other minion love suggestions?

EremiteAngel.9765:

do minions still die under water?

If you have them slotted in your bar on land and in water, no they don’t. As has been the case for quite some time. The only minion that always dies in water is the flesh golem. And, of course, the ground targeted Flesh Wurm can’t be used under water

Me and a guildie ran AC story with all minions, and it worked well. Then we and two others ran CoE p1 and… It went astonishingly well. Granted, minions are still somewhat tricky to use in that context, but, by Grenth, the deeps went up and it was great

Necro is really only useful in dungeons as an hp sponge with very meh damage output. It can be helpful if you’re running with guildies and they can build around that, but for a PUG, a necro is pretty lackluster. So, if you’re going to be doing a lot of dungeon running, necro isn’t the right class for you, unfortunately. If you have friends that are okay with it and you enjoy it, though, you can make it work

Dawdler.8521:

If you play a soldier well Necro you dont even need CC or grasp. You can go all wells and bomb caps.

Not sure how true that is.. In my experience, being able to control your opponent a bit makes it so that you get the max effectiveness out of your wells. Because otherwise it’s pretty difficult to make them work as best as possible. Spectral Grasp -> Wail of Doom -> Dark Pact is a hell of a CC chain.

Throw in weapon swap to staff to trigger the Hydromancy Sigil and then cast Chillblains -> Putrid Mark is even more potent, though at that point your hard CC is gone and that’s your burst gone as well. Which is when you switch to shroud, ideally, and through out Tainted Shackles -> Doom and life blast a bit while kiting as best as you can.

Edit: Also, the other two wells aren’t stellar. Well of Power is good for personal sustain (and a little team assistance) But Well of Darkness is… lackluster. So, realistically, you want a spectral skill in your third slot (or, hell, take a signet there if you want. Again, whatever suits your style in the third slot)

The Great Dog Of The North.4786:

It looks like the perfect build for me, I like using wells and I can see how the stun of the the dagger can work really well with spectral grasp to get some really good AoEs on the enemy.

What stats should I build and in what priority?

Yeah, typically I follow Grasp with either the immobilize or daze, though I try to hit both to set up for wells. And, I believe the link shows the stat set and everything in the armor panel, but basically:

Soldier Amulet: Power, Vitality, Toughness

Strength Runes

Dagger: Sigil of Force
Warhorn: Sigil of Bloodlust

Staff: Sigil of Force
Sigil of Hydromancy