Guild Wars 2

Tommyknocker.6089:

Well we were pretty good back when they first introduced dumbfire, but IMO we never should have been given fire anyways. Chill was and still is what should be our staple ability as it chimes much better with the whole death theme.

Dumbfire gave us one good build at the time, and because it was good they nuked it from orbit and made many of our other abilities garbage; I’m looking at you reduced fear duration.

I for one will be quite pleased if Robert can put us on even ground with the other classes in all game modes. Not just in WvW zergs where we are actually wanted.

Wait.. Our fear duration used to be longer? O.o

Dietzen.6127:

Vydahr.4285:

Try this on for size: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAoYWjc0QLNWTD22AHOOwFqZR0EVBsNDgWgeGxxzC-TZRBwAbOEA02focZgFnAAAPBAA

Pretty kitten durable, and gets good damage out with wells and shroud (especially if you get full bloodlust and might stacks).

Basically, it’s a hybrid power/tank build (brawler build, essentially) that’s pretty forgiving of mistakes, to an extent

Maybe I should have stated more clearly that I only every solo roam I don’t like wells much in wvw as I often find my targets can evade the wells entirely.
(and to those who would say, this class isn’t for that, meh you, that’s not what I’m asking to hear. I’m asking for advice.)

Getting a bit of practice and learning to anticipate where your enemy is going will help with them missing out on some of that damage. Dagger 3 and Warhorn 4 are your friends with wells. But you also get insane durability if you pop Spectral Armor then Shroud, so you can be basically invulnerable for nine seconds in duels and some 2v1’s.

If you want to use different utilities, feel free. But overall, the traitlines are solid and Soldier gear is where it’s at (Forgot you were talking WvW so didn’t switch what game mode the build is in xD )

Try this on for size: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAoYWjc0QLNWTD22AHOOwFqZR0EVBsNDgWgeGxxzC-TZRBwAbOEA02focZgFnAAAPBAA

Pretty kitten durable, and gets good damage out with wells and shroud (especially if you get full bloodlust and might stacks).

Basically, it’s a hybrid power/tank build (brawler build, essentially) that’s pretty forgiving of mistakes, to an extent

bhagwad.4281:

Vydahr.4285:

nearlight.3064:

Vydahr.4285:

nearlight.3064:

Sagat.3285:

Azure.8670:

I still think minion mancer is superior to signet but what do I know

You are not the only one, only AI issues are holding MM back but cele signet is kind of overrated there is an even thread in PvP section saying it better than cele ele.

Yeah I am starting to see that cele signets is overrated. Mainly because, while it is amazing in 1v1s, it really isn’t that strong in teamfights since necro is so easy to focus. Due to that I’ve switched to a soldier’s variation of the build that uses blood magic instead of curses, although curses could might still be better since death perception lets you proc the curses proc traits.. hmmmm…

Yeah.. I’ve never really been into minion builds, but I do think that tanky power builds that are bruiser-esque in design and focus are our strongest choices, which MM technically classifies as, I just like the mightstacking and utility of signets for now.

Try a Soldier SR/BM/S Spectral Well build. That’ll give you a fair bit of durability and plenty of bruising power. I’ve been running one that I really like and unless my team kittens itself for some Grenth forsaken reason, it does really well, including in team fights (plenty of AoE and enough focus with dagger aa that you take down players too)

I see the advantage to using wells (protection) but I prefer signets. Other than that and utility based trait choices the builds we came up with are probably pretty similar.

It’s also a fair bit of damage in a large AoE. In a team fight where there’s more going on, you’re going to be hitting two or three (or more) people for somewhere around 6k damage, which is not fun for light armor classes, and not exactly negligible on heavy armor. And that’s base. If you make full bloodlust stacks, it bumps it to 7k (non-critting, mind.) And at 20 might stacks, the two damage wells will hit fro about 8500 damage over six seconds. To up to five targets. That can turn a team fight pretty well if timed right.

The build I use that I get those numbers from: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBIhZakjGapxaaw2G4wxBuQBbzAoFmFxJUF0zIOeWA-TZRBwAbOEA02focZgFnAAAPBAA

I run pretty much the same setup. But I keep switching between curses and sour reaping. I really like the weakness uptime and the condi transfer signet. But I can’t deny that SR really shines too – choices, choices.

Also, I take the cele ammy. If I use soldier’s like you do, won’t I lose a lot of crits and ferocity?

But then, your focus is more bunkery and mine is both bunker + damage….

You do lose ferocity flat out, unfortunately, but you keep decent crit in shroud. I can still get fairly decent crits on LB. But, with the sheer amount of might stacking and durability to get full bloodlust stacks (just with the bloodlust your power gets above 2600) you hit fairly hard regardless, plus you can go toe to toe with any class and usually win 1v1s. You also don’t die instantly to Heartseeker spam, and then can turn around and mess up a thief.

Obviously you can still be caught by surprise and bursted down, particularly if that thief has a friend, but that’s with any necro build, really. Or… Well… Anyone. Still, even though it is more bunkery, it has juuust enough mobility to rotate points well and aid in team fights, while adding a hefty amount of extra pressure

nearlight.3064:

Vydahr.4285:

nearlight.3064:

Vydahr.4285:

nearlight.3064:

Sagat.3285:

Azure.8670:

I still think minion mancer is superior to signet but what do I know

You are not the only one, only AI issues are holding MM back but cele signet is kind of overrated there is an even thread in PvP section saying it better than cele ele.

Yeah I am starting to see that cele signets is overrated. Mainly because, while it is amazing in 1v1s, it really isn’t that strong in teamfights since necro is so easy to focus. Due to that I’ve switched to a soldier’s variation of the build that uses blood magic instead of curses, although curses could might still be better since death perception lets you proc the curses proc traits.. hmmmm…

Yeah.. I’ve never really been into minion builds, but I do think that tanky power builds that are bruiser-esque in design and focus are our strongest choices, which MM technically classifies as, I just like the mightstacking and utility of signets for now.

Try a Soldier SR/BM/S Spectral Well build. That’ll give you a fair bit of durability and plenty of bruising power. I’ve been running one that I really like and unless my team kittens itself for some Grenth forsaken reason, it does really well, including in team fights (plenty of AoE and enough focus with dagger aa that you take down players too)

I see the advantage to using wells (protection) but I prefer signets. Other than that and utility based trait choices the builds we came up with are probably pretty similar.

It’s also a fair bit of damage in a large AoE. In a team fight where there’s more going on, you’re going to be hitting two or three (or more) people for somewhere around 6k damage, which is not fun for light armor classes, and not exactly negligible on heavy armor. And that’s base. If you make full bloodlust stacks, it bumps it to 7k (non-critting, mind.) And at 20 might stacks, the two damage wells will hit fro about 8500 damage over six seconds. To up to five targets. That can turn a team fight pretty well if timed right.

The build I use that I get those numbers from: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBIhZakjGapxaaw2G4wxBuQBbzAoFmFxJUF0zIOeWA-TZRBwAbOEA02focZgFnAAAPBAA

I’ll give it a try tomorrow if I have time. My build is basically the same thing with vamp/locust/plague signets, transfusion, blood bond, SoS, life from death, vital persistence, and unyielding blast, so actually its very different.

Since while my build is great for rezzing people with transfusion and whatnot, its downcleave isn’t as good since it doesn’t have wells, although the signet might helps with might stacking faster.

Definitely sounds like you have a cele signet variation, where I have a well bomber variant. Pretty different purposes and playstyles, but either way, good luck if you have the chance to try it out. Certainly is fun when you crash into a team fight and crush the already weakened enemy players

nearlight.3064:

Vydahr.4285:

nearlight.3064:

Sagat.3285:

Azure.8670:

I still think minion mancer is superior to signet but what do I know

You are not the only one, only AI issues are holding MM back but cele signet is kind of overrated there is an even thread in PvP section saying it better than cele ele.

Yeah I am starting to see that cele signets is overrated. Mainly because, while it is amazing in 1v1s, it really isn’t that strong in teamfights since necro is so easy to focus. Due to that I’ve switched to a soldier’s variation of the build that uses blood magic instead of curses, although curses could might still be better since death perception lets you proc the curses proc traits.. hmmmm…

Yeah.. I’ve never really been into minion builds, but I do think that tanky power builds that are bruiser-esque in design and focus are our strongest choices, which MM technically classifies as, I just like the mightstacking and utility of signets for now.

Try a Soldier SR/BM/S Spectral Well build. That’ll give you a fair bit of durability and plenty of bruising power. I’ve been running one that I really like and unless my team kittens itself for some Grenth forsaken reason, it does really well, including in team fights (plenty of AoE and enough focus with dagger aa that you take down players too)

I see the advantage to using wells (protection) but I prefer signets. Other than that and utility based trait choices the builds we came up with are probably pretty similar.

It’s also a fair bit of damage in a large AoE. In a team fight where there’s more going on, you’re going to be hitting two or three (or more) people for somewhere around 6k damage, which is not fun for light armor classes, and not exactly negligible on heavy armor. And that’s base. If you make full bloodlust stacks, it bumps it to 7k (non-critting, mind.) And at 20 might stacks, the two damage wells will hit fro about 8500 damage over six seconds. To up to five targets. That can turn a team fight pretty well if timed right.

The build I use that I get those numbers from: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBIhZakjGapxaaw2G4wxBuQBbzAoFmFxJUF0zIOeWA-TZRBwAbOEA02focZgFnAAAPBAA

nearlight.3064:

Sagat.3285:

Azure.8670:

I still think minion mancer is superior to signet but what do I know

You are not the only one, only AI issues are holding MM back but cele signet is kind of overrated there is an even thread in PvP section saying it better than cele ele.

Yeah I am starting to see that cele signets is overrated. Mainly because, while it is amazing in 1v1s, it really isn’t that strong in teamfights since necro is so easy to focus. Due to that I’ve switched to a soldier’s variation of the build that uses blood magic instead of curses, although curses could might still be better since death perception lets you proc the curses proc traits.. hmmmm…

Yeah.. I’ve never really been into minion builds, but I do think that tanky power builds that are bruiser-esque in design and focus are our strongest choices, which MM technically classifies as, I just like the mightstacking and utility of signets for now.

Try a Soldier SR/BM/S Spectral Well build. That’ll give you a fair bit of durability and plenty of bruising power. I’ve been running one that I really like and unless my team kittens itself for some Grenth forsaken reason, it does really well, including in team fights (plenty of AoE and enough focus with dagger aa that you take down players too)

I feel like RS 5 should be a short range (300-ish,) targeted leap so that it’s better at hitting the enemy you’re aiming for, regardless of how fast they are. They could still get away, but they’d have to block or dodge the attack, and we’d still end up right on them, on an ice field, to then use RS 4 to great effect.

Another suggestion is that, instead of a leap ability on RS 2, it instead becomes a 1200 range teleport or shadow step (I’d prefer an honest to god teleport.) To compensate, the cooldown could be increased, but this would give Reaper much needed anti-kiting ability. Aesthetically speaking, I think we should still have the scythe spin when activating the skill, as well as when we appear at our targeted location.

Thoughts on this?

Bhawb.7408:

The Sylvari aren’t really “dark” in general, their view of Necromancy (lore wise) is one of curiosity and excitement, not brooding “I hate everyone grrr ::paints nails black::”.

Not to mention more deeply as a way to better understand themselves and the word around them. Consider how Trahearne is not only the First of the Firstborn, but also a Necromancer whose Wyld Hunt was to cleanse Orr. I propose that it would not have been possible for him to fully understand what he needed to do if he had been, say, a Mesmer or Elementalist.

So, yeah. I think the voice acting for the male Sylvari is perfectly fine

Jackalrat.5493:

As a PvPer, Reaper actually made me appreciate my dagger a lot more. I feel stronger than ever after a weekend of trying to make that GS work in SPvP.

That being said, knowing that a more reliable reaper is on the way is definitely cheapening my necro a tad.

I’m in the same boat. After getting stomped left and right trying to use GS, my d/wh is just.. Yes. I’m back to actually getting points, and even getting top points fairly often. GS was depressing for sPvP for me. Still, if it gets the proper buffs… it’ll be so nice to rock the Reaper in PvP

Just switch the “Flesh of the Master” trait in Death Magic, and that will instantly kill all of them and start their cooldowns. You can set the trait back immediately after turning it off

Muchacho.2390:

Yes they are. RS 2 is better though since it stops at the target (if you have one).

More reason to normalize DS and underwater DS

Johannes.4638:

Something I noticed in general about LF generation was that while Vitality affected the LF pool, it would also affect the % gained. When I had various levels of Vitality from pvp amulets, the GS 3 would vary in LF gained from 305-495. Same is probably true for shouts.

I don’t think that’s affecting percent gained so much as the raw number. Because higher HP = higher LF, that makes the same percentage look like more when in reality it’s just scaled up to the higher pool

Bhawb.7408:

The argument for why we had cast times was because having offensive shouts warranted the counterplay of having cast times. Basically, most offensive skills in the game have cast times, in order to provide counterplay so you don’t just get hit with a few thousand damage.

In this case though, CttB and YSIM are the only two that have to have a cast time, one because its a heal, the other because it is a massively impactful elite tied to 2s stun + tons of chill + high damage. The others don’t particularly need a cast time, or at least not a long one, because they deal low damage (Ele has instant casts with more damage than the shouts) and they don’t have an immediate effect: NCSY gives you unblockable to hit them later, but they should deal with your attacks not the shout, YAAW is the same, gives you might but they have to deal with your attacks, and Rise! they should deal with the minions.

Overall, I think some of the shouts should be instant, or at the very least have 1/2-3/4s cast.

I think they should either be quick cast times like you suggest, or do higher damage. And that would fit thematically in that if you were to hear Death itself call you out, I’m pretty sure you’d die a little inside from the fear that invokes

Honestly, while I like the shout a fair bit, it’s not quite potent enough. I know others have suggested a base amount of LF generation, and then a slightly reduced per-foe increase, but what if the same held true for the healing portion? I’m not talking a huge buff, but maybe something like 4k – 4.5k base heal, and another 500 or so per foe struck. That way it fits the theme of reaper of being stronger in group fights. And, to be honest… When you have about 30k health, the current heal amount is a drop in the pan. Even though it gives LF as well….. If you run out of health, you run out of health. And shroud can only save you so long if you have 1k health left

Bhawb.7408:

Sigmoid.7082:

You do know it does the same damage as mirror blade when weapons are taken into account?? All it needs it to be faster or home. It already does decent damage its getting it to land thats the problem.

This.

However, some important things to note between the two:
Mirror Blade 8s recharge:
Damage: 259 (0.700)?
3 Might (10s): +90 Power, +90 Condition Damage
3 Vulnerability (3s): 3% Incoming Damage, 3% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Bounces: 3
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 1,200
Unblockable
Also summons clone

Reaper’s Touch 18s recharge:
Damage: 229 (0.750)?
Regeneration (5s): 650 health
4 Vulnerability (10s): 4% Incoming Damage, 4% Incoming Condition Damage
Life Force: 3%
Number of Bounces: 4
Range: 1,200

Changes I would make to Reaper’s Touch to bring it in line:
Projectile Finisher
Change Regeneration to something else, it used to be swiftness in beta, but honestly a lot of things would fit, maybe retaliation?
Unblockable

Other than that I think Reaper’s Touch is a solid skill, it is focus 5 that keeps the weapon from being used, but those changes would make focus 4 a lot more attractive.

I think retal would be the way to go. Even more synergy with axe that way

Bhawb.7408:

You don’t need zerker to hit hard, I was killing people from 50% in soldier gear with one Executioner + CoD proc. But it isn’t OP at all either, in fact most of it is a bit on the weak side, there are a just a few things that are balanced already that feel nice.

I’m glad someone else is running Soldier, too, Bhawb. Suits Reaper overall. But, as has been said often, the attacks need a biiit more damage (rather, better coefficients) and reduced cast time (though CDs seem decent)

Silverkey.2078:

I love that Robert answered my suggestion and is now more active in the forum
I just hope he won’t get bored of us too soon

Well, as long as we sweep up the salt piled up on the floor a little bit, and remain constructive, we should be okay

@TheLastNobody… I want to stay here, too. Three replies in a day from Geesus? Am I still alive?

Also, @Robert Gee: I think I speak for many necro players when I say thank you for paying so much attention and giving us clear responses with some hope contained within

NeXeD.3042:

Or make taking vital persistence have an effect on the ds cost of utilities.

That could work… The question would be, would it keep the 50% degen decrease and 15% Shroud CD decrease in this hypothetical change?

Also, I think the LF cost should, of course, be in percentages as opposed to flat numbers. This way higher vitality builds don’t have an advantage over lower vitality builds in that way. Perhaps Vital Persistence could give 1-2% (Maybe 1.5%? shrug) LF cost reduction for Shroud utilities as well as the CD decrease, but make the LF degen 2%/s baseline

Edit: @Sagat – I don’t think it would be too bad. I’m thinking that the cost could be between 4% and 10% for each utility. Elite would be 10%, Heal would be 8%, then the utilities would be 4%, 6%, and 8%. Something similar to that, anyway, depending on what these skills would actually do

I think GS can do nearly heavy enough damage as is for what it’s designed to be: A frontline brawler type with high durability and moderately strong hits in big cleave AoE to keep up pressure. The biggest flaw in my mind is that the cast times are just too long. Decrease cast times by a bit (especially on the AA) and I have the feeling GS would be just what we need (and be more in line with the devs’ desire for Reaper: Slow (it’s still a GS, after all) but fairly heavy hitting (Again, GS, after all) with a fair number of control effects built in

NeXeD.3042:

Actually maybe just make it so when you use a utility in DS it uses a percentage of DS. Allowing utility in ds while making you think twice before always using your utilities in DS. This would still allow us to stunbreak and heal but at an extra cost.

This is a good idea, I think. Though, the amount of LF used couldn’t be drastic, or it would make LF burn far too quickly. (As it is, 4% degen per second at base is fairly significant. Perhaps make Vital Persistence’s 50% reduction in degen baseline to compensate for more rapid LF usage due to DS/RS utilities?

NeHoMaR.9812:

I suppose adding more dps and support to necromancer will make the class overpowered? that’s maybe the problem here. Imagine a necro with the burn damage of a guardian, with +50k of HP?

I am “almost” ok with necro in WvW/PvP, but I am sure there are considerable problems in PvE, dungeons/fractals.

Basically, with PvE things, you really need to have a guild that is necro friendly. Because, realistically, necro is a selfish class that doesn’t help a group much. Unless they do more facetank-y things. For instance, if your armor is high enough and you do just enough damage, you can draw great aggro. With perma-might from spite and a bloodlust sigil, you can go tank gear (Sentinel or Soldier (I prefer the latter)) and still do decent damage. But it really only works the best when your teammates are buffing you up a bit too, and helping you maintain your hp.

So, really, the biggest issue is that there are few ways a necro is really helpful in a dungeon or fractal. Essentially, we could use more viable build variety

zapv.8051:

Just to explain why I think DS, or necro base HP (and therefore DS health) should be lowered. Everyone on this forum is asking for active defense and buffs to bad weapon skills as well as mechanic fixes. While I do feel that is justified, a necro with 40k hp, an invuln, a port, and stab whose weapons actually function well and who can use utilities in DS is really intimidating. 40k hp for 90% of the players in this game is already an incredibly daunting task, and, while skillfull play will see that health disappear relatively quickly, I don’t envision anet making it even harder for newbies to kill necros with burst. Also, before someone says it, DS is not a second health bar, but Anet treats it as one, so that is how we should treat it when discussing balancing.

By reducing the total amount of DS and increasing the rate of regeneration it would become more of a sustain mechanic. Currently, LF generates too slowly to be a proper sustain mechanic. The necro plays more like a carry right now in that you can build up 100% LF by the middle of the match and be really hard to kill (or get shutout by a thief/mes). Also, by increasing weapon LF generation necros would become less dependent on spectral armor and/or last gasp (which are pretty much mandatory in pvp right now).

So, along with natural degen, you want the LF pool to be halved…. That doesn’t seem like it will help us sustain. That seems like we’ll have our life force burned through even faster. Unless we get utilities in Shroud that helps maintain LF, you’re proposing to essentially get rid of our safety net. Death Shroud is how we tank damage. So unless we get a non-degenerating LF pool that, while cut in half, also gives us utilities in shroud including something to gain LF back beyond DS 4 or RS 1, and gives us real defensive options, I’m completely against cutting LF. Quick regen and lower pool is not sustain as it stands. We’d have to have the whole class overhauled to make that work

Nynuwe.5893:

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

Bhawb.7408:

Wait Blackmoa was there? He’s a very solid Necro, if he couldn’t make Reaper work that doesn’t bode well.

He was doing okay, except for a 1 on 1 fight wit ha mediguard. But, to be honest, the mediguard would be way more experienced at his speck than Blackmoa for obvious reasons, and if the necro was using dagger + warhorn it would have had a pretty good chance to win.

But the point is to show off how good GS is, not prove that dagger+warhorn is still better.

I think Andlat’s point is that dagger/warhorn is a frequently played weapon set on necro, so the ins and outs, counters and tricks are all well known, whereas for GS, it’s all theorycraft, essentially. Even the best player ever is gonna have a little difficulty mastering a completely new weapon with all its nuances in a handful of minutes

Malchior.1928:

Lily.1935:

Wrong thread. No one here suggested cutting the life force pool.

Incorrect.

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Thank you Malchior. I’ve seen the suggestion in other threads and the fact that the idea is spreading is irksome. LF is supposed to act like a second health bar and a sustain mechanic. Anet needs to follow through with this instead of keeping on with their kitten attempts to make it work as is (a weird hybrid of sustain and burst)

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Honestly, I hate that people are suggesting cutting LF in half. It is supposed to be a sustain mechanic. MAKE IT A FREAKING SUSTAIN MECHANIC. I don’t want necros to be like every kittening class out there. We shouldn’t be bursty. Death is slow but inevitable and doesn’t go down easily. Need an invisibility cloak to escape it. kitten turning necros into a burst class. Make us what we were meant to be. A durable attrition class. For kitten’s sake. Is that such a bad thing?

I’m sorry for being so snappy, but kitten , people. Stop trying to make us like every other Zerk class out there. Necros have the opportunity and the inherent design philosophy to be something else. Something that, no, doesn’t do burst damage. But will outlive other classes regardless of situation

Lily.1935:

Khristophoros.7194:

Lily.1935:

Khristophoros.7194:

Being able to use utilities during shroud wouldn’t really be OP or anything. You can already drop wells and go into shroud for death perception. You can already activate a spectral skill and then go into shroud. Being able to use them during it would add a little more flexibility but it wouldn’t add entirely new things that we couldn’t do before.

You skip a step by doing this. It makes everything allot quicker. I don’t think it would be OP either. I recognize that the power while in Death shroud and out of it is quite significant at the moment, being out of it is more powerful at the moment even with death perception. But the scale could be tipped if changed over. Which is completely fine since Shroud is still a resource that can be depleted.

What I meant was it’s more of a QoL buff, being able to do the things we already do more easily/faster. It doesn’t add anything radical so it shouldn’t break the game.

Oh, No it wouldn’t. I don’t disagree with you. But Spectral skills do become allot stronger as it won’t require you to drop DS to activate and they could actively add to your pool. Such as spectral grasp suddenly gives you 15% health and its animation is harder to see with the shroud smoke. Its easy to say that its the same in theory, but in practice its a different store. Also have to consider the ability to stunbreak while in DS is huge.

But again, I’m not disagreeing with you.

This would actually make us strong, so sadly, it’s unlikely to happen :/ WHY, ANET, WHYYYY

Bhawb.7408:

zapv.8051:

Unholy Sanctuary should still heal for more.

No. No, no; no! Unholy Sanctuary heals for way too much right now in Cleric builds, it literally resets the fight completely with one usage of Death Shroud in 1v1s. The problem is it, like so many other sustain traits, has no scaling into teamfights because Death Shroud doesn’t scale into teamfights. Increasing its healing just makes it too strong for 1v1s and still not sufficient in teamfights.

What if Unholy Sanctuary got an added benefit similar to Vamp signet, but watered down and without an ICD so that it scales with team fights. Or, alternately, give it an ICD of 1 sec for each foe attacking. Then it would scale and not be too OP with Cleric builds

I still think the Grandmaster Minor trait should be either buffed, or changed entirely. I think a good option would be 6 seconds of protection upon leaving Shroud, and instead of applying to just you and your minions, it should apply to you and nearby allies (maybe within 200 units)

CCLegion.5936:

No, the wiki is wrong. It has been shown kitten target cleave but the wiki showed it as 3 cleave right after. Unless there was a dev comment I missed, it should still be 5 targets.

sigh of relief The Necro-Copter is safe-ish!

CCLegion.5936:

Alright, bad news. Wiki lists the chat codes for the traits and they work ingame. I just verified it for myself. Cold Shoulder changes are correct, same with Shivers of Dread, Chilling Nova and Chilling Force, now renamed Chilling Victory.
Gravedigger’s target limit however was wrong the entire time. Not just recently.

Well nevermind then. That’s… That’s awful

Edit: So… Basically, Gravedigger has always been 3 person cleave?

CCLegion.5936:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jayce.5632:

nearlight.3064:

spoj.9672:

Id be more concerned about them putting an ICD on chilling force than blighters boon.

Well technically it already has a 1 second per target ICD, according to the description of the trait on the wiki, but I feel like the traits effects are too weak for little chill most builds not using GS autos will be able to put out.

And so it begins….

Also on the wiki, Chilling Nova has a 15 second ICD.

Looking worse and worse…

EDIT: So, even more lousy news.

• Shivers of Dread: reduced to 2 seconds of Chill on Fear from 3.
• Cold Shoulder: reduced to 10% damage reduction from 15%. Also reduced to 10% Chill duration from 20%.
• Chilling Nova reduced to 2 seconds of Chill from 3. 180 radius.
• No stun break at all on shouts.
• Gravedigger reduced to 3 targets from 5.
• Nightfall does not Cripple, though it does blind and damage on each pulse. 300 radius, 4 seconds
• Executioner’s Scythe is 1.5 seconds of Chill. Not sure what it was before, but this is ridiculously short.

But hey! Chilling Force had its Might duration buffed from 4 seconds to 5!

The wiki has been wrong on several parts of Reaper for a while now but I never felt like correcting them. They are using the outdated tooltip shown for Nightfall since Reaper reveal even though Robert Gee said that the skill changed drastically.
Chilling Force might lasted for 5s in the reveal.
No stunbreak on shouts because they still use the outdated tooltip for “You are all weaklings!” while removing the stunbreak from “Suffer!”, which is correct.
Chilling Nova was 1.5s chill with the same radius in the reveal, which would actually make this a buff but nothing supports it.
There is no evidence for the reductions for Shivers of Dread, Cold Shoulder and Gravedigger as we saw neither GS skills nor Reaper traits since May. Same with the Chilling Nova and Chilling Force ICDs.
Executioner’s Scythe did not change. The chill on it is for the ice field it leaves, which makes it the only AoE part of the skill.

tl;dr: Most of these changes are completely unsupported and I have no idea where they came from.

Thank you for this. So. Much. I’m glad I don’t have to be quiiite so depressed about reaper

Malchior.1928:

Vydahr.4285:

Better idea. Gaining LF from nearby deaths while in shroud (at least 50% of normal regen) should replace that gods-awful 3 second protection bull of a Grandmaster Minor

Edit: This would actually give a pretty substantial reason (more so than now) for tankier builds to take DM. Sooooo…. Anet, get on this, please. Pleeease

No. Protection on leaving DS is fantastic. When are you vulnerable? after leaving DS. When is the protection uptime? Right after you leave DS. It’s perfect. With just the speed of shadows trait, you can have 42.85% protection uptime. That’s not including spectral armor, last gasp, and other forms of protection for an upwards of 100% uptime.

However, I agree that we should gain lifeforce from deaths while IN DEATHSHROUD. That should be a baseline QoL fix.

That works fine for Shroud Flashing builds, but not for Shroud builds. I think that that minor really should be more significant. Make it 3 seconds of invuln if they’re sticking to short duration stuff. If it stays protection, it should double duration and be shared to Allies (not just minions)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Silverkey.2078:

I have a noob question: do nearby death regenerate life force even if you’re in DS?
What I am curious is how long will we manage to stay on DS. With the reaper shroud AA regenerating LF we probably will have more regen than in usual DS, but obviously we will take massive damage…

While you’re in Death Shroud, you do not gain life force from deaths. This really should be added in. If not baseline, then at least changing Soul Comprehension to allow it instead of being useless would work.

Better idea. Gaining LF from nearby deaths while in shroud (at least 50% of normal regen) should replace that gods-awful 3 second protection bull of a Grandmaster Minor

Edit: This would actually give a pretty substantial reason (more so than now) for tankier builds to take DM. Sooooo…. Anet, get on this, please. Pleeease

Silverkey.2078:

@Vydahr
You make a strong point. Your build is indeed probably more survivable than a BM one. In particular Unholy Sanctuary as an emergency “back to shroud” since I really suspect the shroud CD will be our biggest enemy.

But then it comes back to my question: what are we bringing to the table? I doubt we will out-damage warriors, and yet they also bring potent utilities (I don’t even mention guardians). Sure, any additional member on a zerg can be an improvement, but why wouldn’t we stay backline where we already shine? I was just hoping that a bit of vampiric support could be a worthy addition and that a commander would ask at least one of the necros to spec reaper and join the dead zone

I think we can’t go much further until we put our hands on the reaper (which fortunately is soon). We’ll see how survivable we end up being, how damaging and ultimately how useful.

Sad most of us are probably not on the same server. Since I’ve never been frontline (I mostly play mesmer and necro, so never had the occasion before), I’ll probably die fast but it will be a nice experience

Purely as a theory (when I WvW, I’m usually Roaming in the Borderlands taking camps and guards and in small fights now and then) I think the biggest thing we’d bring to frontline is chill. Yes, it no longer affects movement abilities. But it does affect the CDs of the enemy frontliners. Making them less potent and spacing out their bursts. And, actually, in addition to that, there are going to be a lot of people under 50% health. Gravedigger spam. Even if it is nerfed to three targets, that’s still three people (including downed) that gets blended repeatedly. Though a tanky Spectral Reaper wouldn’t have high damage, the perpetual AoE and chill would be potent in that setting. Executioner’s Scythe will be quite impactful, too, with the AoE chill. I think Reaper could see decent frontline use, if played to Necro’s inherently durable strengths. There will be a lot of death. There will be a lot of LF gain. And with the proper traits and utilities, a Frontline Reaper would bring a noticeable impact to battles

Further Note: Though condi cleanse is big right now, and GS AA is slow, in a zerg, people are still gonna get hit by it. And they’ll get hit enough that they have to choose between cleansing chill or cleansing (more) damaging conditions, thus sacrificing burst speed

Silverkey.2078:

@Vydahr
While DM makes you more survivable, it is very selfish. You don’t benefit much your party. Also, tougness becomes less important the more you have. On the other hand, the siphons from BM will heal you. In particular, I’m not too afraid for my life while in DS but rather for my life out of it. Being able to heal (a little) while still in DS means I have more life when I pop out of DS to survive until it is available again.

My biggest point is that I think Reaper will be an excellent shroud build. Which is inherently selfish. Kind of the flavor of necro anyway. And yes, the loss of BM is painful, but you get more powerful hits in RS with DM by a fair margin (as in, 7% more power off of what you have out of RS) which makes up for the healing loss. Plus, Unholy Sanctuary is almost a default for shroud builds, so you still get some healing. I think there’s enough with reaper in general that let’s it be survivable in and out of shroud, but it will be more focused on Shroud play, in my mind. And certainly my build. Though, I will admit that BM might be a better alternative than DM, though you lose out on boosting shroud more. You do get access to dagger and well traits, but… I don’t know. I think it’ll depend on preference between the two.

(Note: I run a Soldier Spectral-Wells build currently, so the health siphon has never been hugely noticeable for me. That being said, for lower health/toughness specs that are more bursty and don’t take GS, I’d say BM is the way to go, and DM for Tank/Brawler builds like mine)

Silverkey.2078:

@Sigmoid thanks
Then shouts build are potentially interesting indeed. I’m still hesitant with wells… The team protection + life steal from trait is strong, and boon corruption or blinds is always nice (of course, our non-reapers from the back line should give us some of that)… Any opinion well (and/or spectral armor) vs shouts?

I think Spectral armor will be pretty important for Reapers where they’re melee fighters. Remember, Spectral Armor works through shroud. Which means you have good damage reduction, and in fact, counter some damage every second for up to nine seconds traited. Plus, you can regenerate nearly 80% of your life force in those seconds if shroud is on cooldown. I know for my build I’ll be using shouts and spectrals for utilities/elite and going SR/DM/R for as much shroud uptime, toughness, and power as possible

I think for frontline as a reaper you’re gonna want Soldier gear. Gives you as much survivability as possible in terms of mitigating damage, and still has power as the primary stat. Use Soul Reaping to get Death Perception and slash at people in RS as often as possible

Samhayn.2385:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ChapDev.7650:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jayce.5632:

nearlight.3064:

spoj.9672:

Id be more concerned about them putting an ICD on chilling force than blighters boon.

Well technically it already has a 1 second per target ICD, according to the description of the trait on the wiki, but I feel like the traits effects are too weak for little chill most builds not using GS autos will be able to put out.

And so it begins….

Also on the wiki, Chilling Nova has a 15 second ICD.

Looking worse and worse…

EDIT: So, even more lousy news.

• Shivers of Dread: reduced to 2 seconds of Chill on Fear from 3.
• Cold Shoulder: reduced to 10% damage reduction from 15%. Also reduced to 10% Chill duration from 20%.
• Chilling Nova reduced to 2 seconds of Chill from 3. 180 radius.
• No stun break at all on shouts.
• Gravedigger reduced to 3 targets from 5.
• Nightfall does not Cripple, though it does blind and damage on each pulse. 300 radius, 4 seconds
• Executioner’s Scythe is 1.5 seconds of Chill. Not sure what it was before, but this is ridiculously short.

But hey! Chilling Force had its Might duration buffed from 4 seconds to 5!

I haven’t seen these before and I’m rather skeptical of Wiki’s due to the ease to edit them.

Are we sure this is accurate. o.o And if so wow? Really? Without even the Beta?

Actually, the only reason I suspect they’re legit is because we haven’t heard anything at all regarding these skills since the initial reveal.

See this is what happens when a necro beats one of the special snowflake classes in closed beta. Honestly thou only the clod shoulder and gravedigger changes are the ones the bother me. Those are the two biggest things that I see that made the melee part of reaper viable. Damage reduction and the ability to cause a panic with large aoe.

The stun break has to be a tool tip error. One of the shouts has to be a stun break.

How reliable is the wiki for unreleased content, though? I’m pretty dubious about this… I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if shouts and traits were nerfed already but…. I dunno. These can’t be a certainty

bhagwad.4281:

CodeHavoc.7926:

Dirame.8521:

Nepu.2918:

Dirame.8521:

counter to Rampage

how exactly do you do that?

Corrupt Boon, DS 3, Plague Signet (with SoS trait of course), Staff 5. They’ll step out of their Rampage right after the 3rd fear.

Or just drop well of darkness

Or Plague Form.

Or charge them head on*

*caution: do not charge rampage warriors head on as this is the cause of death of 99% or all those who fight warriors with rampage

Marthkus.4615:

Close. I run Well of Blood, Well of Power, and Plague instead of spectral skills. Which means I take vital resistance instead.

In team fights the AOE well life steal heals a lot. I could see running lich again now that rampage is nerfed. I was bringing plague since rampage would take out my team if I didn’t counter it.

Marthkus… Give in to the Spectral side…. (the plus is near-invuln in 1v2s and actual invuln in 1v1s for nine seconds with traited Spectral Armor… Just putting that out there lol)

Silverkey.2078:

This one is up-to-date and quite good
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Signet_Roamer

The main problem of the necromancer in roaming is that you can’t kite! So you’re definitely good at dueling, but can’t easily escape from a bad-looking fight.

Go big or get dead. Or go big and get dead. That’s the roaming necro philosophy

Secondarily
Keeping 1, 2 or sometimes 3 enemy players off point for as long as possible with a bunker build. You can take a lot of punishment and deal out decent damage, as well as still having some condi transfer. Just gotta find your comfort zone.

Mine, for instance, is what I said above in PvP, and in PvE (dungeons and fractals) I’m great at holding aggro and living through big fights in the middle of enemies.

Honestly, I’m going to try to make my SR/DM and switch out BM for Reaper, as bad of an idea that might be. The extra power, condi removal and automatic “oh kitten” switch are really nice for my Soldier build (lack of precision except in DS/RS)

That being said, I’ll probably use Spectral skills and Shouts (still may use CC as a heal, though) So, basically, I’ll be using a RS build. I’m looking forward to it though

Edit: Another downside is losing the speed increase from BM. Though, that could be fixed with SWalk, I think. Or SG, possibly, because it’s another gap closer (if it hits) shrug Gotta wait and see

Usagi.4835:

Vydahr.4285:

Usagi.4835:

They’re removing guard stacks so don’t factor that in.

I was under the impression that they weren’t going to remove them, but instead make it so that it takes less time to invest in them fully (as in, decreasing the number of points needed to max them out)

Nope.

“Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines… This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Huh. Alright. Probably not the worst thing, anyway. Keeps WvW somewhat more balanced (not that that is much of a thing in that game mode)

Usagi.4835:

They’re removing guard stacks so don’t factor that in.

I was under the impression that they weren’t going to remove them, but instead make it so that it takes less time to invest in them fully (as in, decreasing the number of points needed to max them out)

Dawdler.8521:

Vydahr.4285:

The way I see it, Lich is heavy artillery. Hits hard, but needs good positioning and/or defensive support. If you have a guardian or an ele (or both) passively assisting you, Lich works well. If you don’t have that support, or if you need to support others, Plague is the way to go

The Necro itself is the heavy artillery. When you go into Lichform, you loose that and become a .50 cal sniper rifle… that has the visibility and mobility of an elephant.

No really, try going 1v20 (find any guild group and rush them head on). Do it as Lich and do it as Necro. I think you will find that wellbomb is far more effective artillery. If Lich is better, at least I got you to 1v20.

I’d say both are heavy artillery. They both need allies around to be most effective. And they die in 1v20s as fast as anyone (even invuln only lasts so long)

Besides, wells are damaging for only 6 seconds. And WoS does the damage of one good Lich auto attack in those six seconds. So, really, like I said, a defended Lich will do more damage to the enemy than a well-bomber. But, again, it’s a pretty specific circumstance that that is effective or even feasible

Zalavaaris.5329:

Vydahr.4285:

Marthkus.4615:

I run Pvt right now on my necro and it is working out for me.

Normally vit would be a bad choice on a high HP class, BUUTTT death shroud scales with vit and toughness scales with both.

That and Necro’s get a lot of crit chance without any precision.

Marthkus, any chance your build is similar to this?: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAoYWjc0QLNWTD22AHOOsGKZAEy/6MBigMguC1wkC-TZRBwAbOEAlLDs4EAYd/BAPBAA
Because I’ve seen great success with it. Potent in 1v1s and some 1v2, and good in team fights if only because you can fight like a rabid badger. As in, stab and AoE 1-3 people and put the pressure on while being durable (SA for the win there)

I tried pretty much the EXACT same build and I had a hard time without foot in the grave. Stun lock warriors were a nightmare.

The way I figure, Stun Lock Warriors are the minority of enemies you face, so Death Perception is the better trait overall because it boosts your dps in shroud, though I’d say the choice between the two is a preference

Marthkus.4615:

I run Pvt right now on my necro and it is working out for me.

Normally vit would be a bad choice on a high HP class, BUUTTT death shroud scales with vit and toughness scales with both.

That and Necro’s get a lot of crit chance without any precision.

Marthkus, any chance your build is similar to this?: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAoYWjc0QLNWTD22AHOOsGKZAEy/6MBigMguC1wkC-TZRBwAbOEAlLDs4EAYd/BAPBAA
Because I’ve seen great success with it. Potent in 1v1s and some 1v2, and good in team fights if only because you can fight like a rabid badger. As in, stab and AoE 1-3 people and put the pressure on while being durable (SA for the win there)