Guild Wars 2

Zenith.7301:

I deal damage on d/d because there’s this thing called vigor when I crit. Dredge bosses are doable.

And burst is extremely useful when you also have warriors in the party, because the best utility you can bring to tough encounters outside bosses is to eliminate targets quickly.

In Arah, for example, it doesn’t pay to have protracted fights. Neither does it pay for the Ascalonian fractals, because the mobs themselves hit like trucks and the longer you take to kill them, the more likely something will go wrong. Pairing a frenzy 100b with ele burst aoe is pretty crazy and can take down most dangerous trash.

Same for bosses where you quickly need to dispatch, like the Nightmare Vine in TA; the longer it takes you to kill the small vines, the worse it gets.

i have renewing stamina aswell so whats your point?

you can’t be serious when you say you do the dredge bosses with a melee weapon.then you are doing something really wrong on that boss no matter what class you are on( unless you want to be there forever, then i suppose it’s good) if you dislike staff go scepter, you need ranged on that boss.

the best utility you can bring to a tough encounter is survive-ability. unless you are doing a speed run of course. and if you are doing a speed run, well, just go warrior they are way more efficient at that.

as before, if you want burst, just go with a warrior. they will have there burst up way more.

and i’m quite sure that your burst isn’t that much higher then a staffs initial dmg anyway. we will have better dmg gear as we don’t have to be in melee to deal he dmg in the first place.

Towren.1745:

Hi there!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, your post is quite interesting reading. I have a thing against D/D Auramancer, not necessarily a staff one, I just hadn’t considered it before considering we only have the one aura on the actual weapon set :P

The reason I haven’t taken blasting staff is because my entire team is always in Melee and we communicate over skype whilst in Dungeons, I’ve found it’s not needed for the blast finishers and combo field mechanics that we use, and because we’re bunched up, mobs bunch up too (this also helps with the boons on attunement trait)… Of course saying that, you are correct, my damage is not amazing by a long shot, but I’m mainly there for the might stacking, cleansing and reviving

But again, thanks for your reply, it’ll make some interesting experimenting.

you have a frost aura. through frost field -> blast finishers, here is how you utilize it at its best:

W4 , go to earth , E2 , dodge into frost field , arcane wave.

this will grant your team 3 frost auras if you switched from water to earth and started eruption early enough ( this require some training to get right but you should get a hang of it quite quickly) the 3 frost auras will give your team the zephy’s boon proc 3 times, witch will grant them 15sec of fury. and combined with magnetic aura it will give 20sec of fury! as long as all stay within the blasting area witch you said you didn’t have any problem with.

and note that this is you who is applying the boons thus this will increase the boon duration with how much extra boon duration you have witch should be 30-50% depending on what food you are eating. giving us a grand total of 26-30sec of fury. from you alone. onto the entire team.
and we look at the cd on these spells, all a 30seconds cd except for the frosts field witch has a 32sec cd. witch will only give us a very small window where the team don’t have fury ( you still have it due to arcana5 minor trait) however as a warrior he should have his own fury. to gap this very small window. and if u think it’s to much fury. cut down on one of the finisher and use it on lava front like you said.and remeber that this stack very nicely with water25 minor trait ( 2% extra dmg per boon) because this is basicly 2 permanent boons. couple it with might(and in my build also vigor) you should easily get 4+ boons on you at all times. giving you 8%+ dmg basically all the time. this trait is huge!

the traits is yours to chose and if you don’t use it you could at least have a better utility like the dodge one, ( the aura you gain from reviving is not shared but yolu still get the boon buffs) and if you have 20% critchanse from fury all the time you will have some descent vigor going on aswell.

Strang.8170:

maddoctor.2738:

When ALL Elementalists would rather use another Utility in their elite slot, it’s a clear indication that something is wrong with the elite skills…

There, fixed it for you.

yepp, i’d rather have another utility. mist form or lightning flash. i could even take arcane shield. it gives us more utility in dungeons. but atm i might use my ele elites once per 4 fractals. they could make the glyph og restoration a ulti and make it have a 1-2sec casting time. now that would be truly game changing. why don’t we get skills like aoe quickness in 10sec… lol. we get a kittenty whirlwind witch we all used once and hen returned to whatever elite we use before it.

i’m making a alt (guardian) and when i read their elites i was like " wat"? elites that actually serve a specific purpose? cooool.

yeah, i was pretty lucky. but the first 40 was as average as it could get, but after those i almost felt as if i got a 1:2 return. so i was lucky here i must admit

yeah, now for the prec. gl

a lot of ppl consider healing power to be a week stat. witch it is imho. you need to play a very specific roll with it and have alot of people around you with lots of toughness in order to be efficient.

now your skill build is pretty solid, the glyph heal + storm + a catrip of your choise+ arcane wave + elemental is one of the most default settings a ele can have in a pve
environment.

now, i wont try and convert you to the aouramancer side buuut. what if i told you that you could be a auramancer using a staff ? would that be interesting? would it be interesting giving your entire group around 80% uptime of fury and swiftness? if yes, check out this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhImSbzxygjDAkHvYSJiCPUekzO2A

only thing about your traiting that i think is sub-optimal is not taking blasting staff as a staff ele. yeah it’s a bit buggy, but it increases the areas by a lot.

also the waterXI trait is week in pve due to most mobs lack of major condition dmg. the clense in water + water5 should be enough. ( note that warriors and necromancers have alot of cleances them self so no need to over do it)

the choice between arcaneV and arcaneVI is usually depending on what dungeon you are playing. but keep in mind that the arcaneV have a rather low range ( lower then 400)

and taking water trait and healing power gear can’t leave you with much dps.

and i don’t know why u don’t like auramancers? is it because they are dagger dagger? or just the play style? i play a auramancer staff. and it works great for my team and me

if you can afford celestial stats on a pice of gear you should take it, you as a elementalist gain from all stats no matter if you are building full support or full dps.
if you want i can give you my entire gear build.

armour : berz
runes divinity
staff : berzerker,
sigil : 3x 20s might on attunement swap ( battle i think it is)
amulet+ earrings : (pow , prec, tough) with zerker jewels.
back: zerker
rings: the celestial stats from the fractal ( used to use same as current the earrings)

i make up for the lack of major stats of healing power because i’m going 30 into water.

i’m thinking of changing my Armour for some pvt/knight gear and making a mix of them as i start to feel the pain is coming to me at fractal 30.

but if i were you and were unsure of what to do, go with some rare berzerker armour and feel for yourself. "do i need more defence, then go for toughness in your earrings / rings, if you need evne further change some of the armour to pvt/knights and if you feel you need more you need to start learning to dodge. if you find yourself in a spot where you don’t realy feel you are contributing to the team as much as you could then try diffrent types of build and change it as you go along. i used to have a 20/10/0/10/30 build then converting it to a 0/25/0/15/30 build and then a 0/20/0/20/20 and then finaly to the 0/10/0/30/30 auramancer build wich does increase the overall dmg on the party by a lot. but test. maybe you like a 30/10/0/10/20 build, who knows.

now don’t get me wrong. they are great in the open world. and the elemental is great in most dungeons. and the greatsword is so much fun and so much dmg. but i feel that in wvw/pvp we dont have the same power in our elites.

quick review:
greatsword:
+ alot of dps
+ fuuuuuun
+ looks awsome
- well. dps is all it have. as a ulti? realy. as a elite i could atleast have gotten some utility. other than a crappy cripple. not to mention that i give up on all of my other spells.

elemental
+great utility
+have lots of different rolls it can play.
+if using earth you get your own personal tank who you can heal.
-it sux in most dungeons and especially the fractals, same can be said for wvw and pvp.

whirlwind/pool
erhmm … why ? sure its a cool spell but giving upp all my dps and utility for some knocbacks? and poor dmg.

you know what would be cool? a spell that reduced our cd. and made our cd recharge 50% faster for 10-15 seconds and making the attunements have 50% less cd aswell making you a super elementalist in super mode for a set amout of seconds. now that is waht i would call awesome and very useful in almost all areas. balance it by having a huge cd or something similar.

just a quick though. nothing really serious. just something to spin on :P

the fact that most people came to somewhat same odds and if u sum the mall up you get an average of them witch the most don’t deviate to much from. so I would call it reliable enough to be used. but that’s just my opinion. and yes it rng so who knows.

Intigo.1653:

So many words to say so little, Waraxx.

the huge post was just for clarifications. and ig you understood the main concept of my original post then that post is mostly irrelavent

original post:

as for the reddit post, its a great post, but misses important factors like might and fury. for example, critchanse and critdmg makes each mightstack deal more dmg and the fury makes critdmg more important. so i’d recommend making these calculations with how many might stacks you have in general in a group. and how long upptime your fury have.

witch imo sums it up quite nicely.

Kastayeule.6148:

some have reach level 80, i personally know players that are 60+

i can’t stand people asking about nerf on fotm or dungeon. I understand 100% that devs did’nt expect players to pass 30-40~ because of the agony.

More and more people solo dungeon now, i have seen mesmer,warrior,ele and guardian so far. I don’t know if your post is about the formula of agony or fotm getting harder. You could do all levels of fotm 1-80 witouth agony resist if you know how to play them.

here is a group completing the shaman on fotm 80. imo this is the hardest of the fractals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQZyILWlO4

the difficulty of the fotm in this topic is completely irrelevant and i am well aware of that you can make most of the fractals without any BIS-gear and even without any AR ( apart from the jade maw where you will have to start using res orbs at some point) i know people using rare mf gear in fractal 38 and 40. i also ran with a dude in fractal 24 who had 0 AR for the kicks and that was one of the smoothest run i’ve ever had might i add. ( he put the AR on once we started the maw however)

this topic is purely mechanical and how the numbers are generated for how much dmg the agony deals in the different levels and have I have no interest in building a argument here “proving” the agony in fotm is op. my opinion on this matter is that the balance is perfect. yes, they did a perfect dungeon imo. ( part from buggs and glitches) the frost elemental in dredge fractal seem to have bugged agony for example ( it is a ice spike falling to the ground like dragon tooth). but instead of dealing the dmg when the ice falls it deals the agony and the knockdown once the aoe is put down. making it almost impossible to dodge ( assumptions because the actual ice chunk in said attack doesn’t seem to do anything once the animation is executed)

this topic is just to make the all mighty wiki somewhat more accurate kitten the current formula is very wrong in any fractals higher than 20.

Grey.7319:

Excellent, thanks for your input. Just from personal experience, I think that the damage scales per level, not just per “tier” or level range. I will try and confirm with some hard numbers later today, and will post the data I have available

awsome! would be nice to come to the bottom of this formula.

i will be rather busy the weeks to come ( i’m studying to become a engineer hopefully one day) but ill try and make a few testing in the weekend if i can

Wolfgang Michael.8217:

Any person who has not tried an ele will not know the value of an ele. Honestly this is the truth. The condition removal, the regen, the combo fields, the cc, the everything goes unnoticed.

Plus, it is a refreshing change from all the melee.

same goes for guardian tbh. once you’ve played a guardian you know the you should stick close to the guardian to make full use of him

yeah. i think my run was easier. think we got swamp, snowblind and the asura. nice times. now i got 25ar and frankly dosent realy care about agony attacks wich takes away some of the feeling actually :/.

Arvid.3829:

Just to add some information:
I did/do 20-28 with 10 AR and it’s very much doable, although you can’t go about it brainlessly anymore.

i did fractal 20 with 5AR. the first time. i faired pretty well because i’m good at dodging. however the jade maw made me wait untill i got 15 ar gor another run :/ but i didn’t die ( god ele’s have some nice heals. but it was reealy close though. one more tic and i would have been a goner)

the limits i put up was the general opinion on what one should have by this time and how much each 5 points help.

as my main is a elementalist i play him in the fractal and other dungeons aswel. and i would like to hear from others professions what they like the most about eles and what they don’t like about eles. (i’m too blinded by their greatness to be subjective)

usually the most liked is aouramancers ( almost perma fury for the entire team)and the aoe fields.

yeah, and it would be nice to see those elementllsts builds. (as i am one)

i still need data as i am only in lvl 29 fractal as of now. and i try to make progression with the formula but i need data to be able to check with stats. apparently at lvl 40 every tic insta downs. so i have data that contradict each other. i really want people to confirm the actuall values.

and the "minimum amount needed for each level is commonly known as
0-9 = 0Ar,
10-19=5Ar (10 helps alot)
20-29= 15AR (20 is recommended)
30+ = 25 AR
at lvl 40 you get instagibbed nomatter what so it doesen’t matter (if sorces are correct)

it’s simple math, yes, but thats not the reason why it’s geeky.
the reason why it’s geeky is because this is quite irrelevant since everybody knows the recommended values at each levels anyway. so a formula is actually quite usless for now. but i did because i like math and i’d like to do something for the communty and if more AR is to be added in the future they will know what levels of AR they will need at certain levels in advance. but meh, it’s still not really useful. it’s mostly for fun.

there is a few things i need to verify.
1. does the agony dmg increase with each fractal or is it only every 10th fractal witch it increases it’s dmg and if the case is the first id like to see some values. ( i will most likely do this my self when im at a lvl 10-20 fractal and remove all my gear and see on the fighting chat and see how much dmg the agony deals.
2. at witch point does the agony become 1tic=downed and one more tic = death. as this is a very important breaking point.

ThiBash.5634:

Waraxx.4286:

as for the reddit post, its a great post, but misses important factors like might and fury.

It doesn’t. It only shows you how much points of a different stat you give up for each point of critical chance per armor/trinket piece. Boons have nothing to do with it.

ah, but there you are mistaken. boons have very much to do with theses calculations specifically the fury / might boon. other boons is irrelevant, yes, but not the fury/might.

the calculations does indeed show how much dmg each stat point gives you relevant to each other. the higher number you get the more you gain from placing stat in it. and optimally you would like to have that each of these equation to eauall each other. however this is very hard to achieve due to the fact that we can’t spend stat points individually but we will have to put stats we want in combination of other stats witch we would rather like to be another stat.

and why does boon affect these numbers you might ask. well for the sake of an easy example. lets asume we have a elementalist with 60% critchanse. however the elementalist is traited in such a way that he will have fury up 100% of the time thus increasing our % chance to 80% while being in combat, and thus this should be the number we use. we need to do these calculation on a the general state of stats we have.

so lets take another example; a warrior have the same critchanse (60%) and is trated / have skills so that he have fury up for a estimated 50% of the time. thus increasing his general critchanse by 10% ( 0.5*20%) and giving us the avearge critchanse of 70% while being in combat.

same thing can be used with might.
lets use a elementalists for example again and lets say he have a base power of 2000. but this time he is trated/geared in such a way that he will have approximetly 7 stacks of might on average during a fight.every stack of might gives us 35 power ( and 35 cond dmg but that irrelevant in these calculations). so on average during a fight the elementalist will have (35*7) 245 extra power. and thus the power of 2245 should be used in the calculations.

because as far as I am aware you don’t use your stat points while being outside of combat. so you will have to calculate with the average combat situation. otherwise you might get the wrong numbers.

I hope you understood why might and fury does have a place in these calculations however it is quite hard to estimate the average amounts of might and fury you have during a fight. but at least trying will get you closer to the real answer thus making the decision more accurate.

Nokaru.7831:

The real issue is that encounter design is too one dimensional. You were correct in explaining that In Fractals of the Mist, you have too much emphasis on projectile-based damage. You missed the mark when you blamed it solely on the Guardian.

Boons Are Awesome: Legendary and Champion creatures actually reduce the duration of Conditions. This inherently makes Boons much more useful, which are integral to the Guardian profession. I’ve never seen a Null Field, Corrupt Boon, or any type of Boon removal in any PvE of significance. Nothing in PvE actually does anything to stop Boons.

Too Many Projectiles: Like you said, projectiles are very common in Fractals. My answer to this is: Stop making so many projectile-based encounters! Mesmers actually match the Guardian in their ability to stop projectiles, but Mesmers themselves as a profession are not strong in PvE with their Support or Damage. This makes them much less attractive for groups by comparison.

Bottom Line?: When you put a Guardian in an environment that it is ideal for, of course the Profession is going to shine. There are other environments where you see this happening for other Professions. For instance, Warriors are very popular for every non-Fractal dungeon because their damage is very high and they are a very durable Profession. Four warrior / one Mesmer (for Time Warp) speed-clear groups for Citadel of Flame are very common these days.

My point is that there are ways to make other Professions feel important, and it starts with more diversity in encounter design.

this awsome souce post convinced me.
but can’t you agree with that the trait is to good though? i mean 50% more uptime is pretty go for a trait no matter what the skill is. or why do consecration need cd and duration in the same trait?

how about reducing the duration by 2sec and nerfing the trait? sounds good to me at least. it will still be very usefull skills and a used trait. however they will be made more situational. witch is the purpose of the skills. it’s not like they will become completely ignored in bossfights just because they are worse then before. in fractals it will still be the most used skill. but they wont be up for as much.

they fill their roll to well. its like giving elementalists alot of combo fields and alot of combo finishers. it would just work to well. if they were to add to combo finishers to staff-ele they would become so much stronger.

Shiren.9532:

They could just make certain projectiles immune to reflection. There is already defiant to trivialise everyone else’s interrupts, stuns, knockdowns and fears, I don’t see why giving boss mobs some abilities to ignore reflection skills would be out of the ordinary. This allows these skills to function the same in every other situation, but prevents them from trivialising boss encounters. You could still have some attacks reflected, but it does seem lame that this mechanic is seeing so much use at the expense of class diversity because other classes don’t have the same abilities.

this could work. but then it would TOTALLY ruin all the other similar spells. the magnetic aura for example would be next to worthless because it’s in the boss fights it really shines. why remove things from all the classes just so one class can have an ability that makes all other similar ability’s seem like nothing. yeah i can accept that they have more than other classes to make it unique to them. but when it comes to the point where it’s permanent? then something is broken (unless you have like 4 or 5 guardians).
the points of these reflective spells is because they are great if you have the skill to react ( that’s why other professions don’t have longer then a few seconds.) it’s not supposed to be there as a perma shield for the entire team. and if that was the intent off it then they seriously need to rethink that decision.

@kiba.2768
nobody is arguing about the need of skills. (if u get my reference). if all party members are skilled players then the run will be smoother than if u had 2 bad guardian players in a group.
yeah, ok, the afking was just thrown in there for the umph. but the point that it simplifies the fight to much still stands.
if u have a certain kit called “ash legion spy kit” which everyone should have at fractal 26+ you can do both of the things u mentioned for a few karma points. so if you want to skip the frostbite fractal campfire please feel free. it wont cost you more than how much karma you get from a event.
i’m afraid i can’t find where someone said that guardians go stealth while moving.
yeah i get your point while retreating. but why do u need a 10sec shield for running away? the shield wont be relevant for more than 4 or 5 seconds. at max 8. and 10 of you are reeeealy pushing it. and breaking lines is nothing a single guy should be able to do by himself. bring 5 guardians if you want to break a line. if a single guy can tank a mass zerg for 10+ seconds then something is terribly broken even in wvw.
ok, you know what. lets just look at the math here maybe that can convince you otherwise. 10 seconds is a long time. and just reducing it to 7seconds would probably make it balanced. but whats realy imba here is the trait. 25% extra duration AND 20% cd reduction. adding those together will make all consecrations have a 50% more uptime than without the trait. 50% ! try find another single trait in any other profession that gives so much extra uptime for a spell type. its either increased duration or cd reduction or it’s located over 2 different major traits.
why should consecration be any different? what is it that makes it uniqe so it need the trait to work. it’s a t1 trait for a already quite usefull skill.

worth playing? hell yeah!
worth improving the game? hell kittening yeah!
worth supporting Anet?… mhhhhh the next few patches will make it or break it for me. most likely the march patch. if they haven’t removed/ changed some of the bigger issues by then, i will probably take and break. and try out other mmos wich have the same goals as gw2. but actually execute them all. one of the biggest let downs was legendarys and the tp in overall. the gem idea is good though.

but overall it’s great! I don’t really mind bots for now. as they are still implementing better codes to detect them.

@parsee komeiji (2nd latest post)
they have the same amount of auras for themself, yes, but for the team staffs have 1 more. you can combo three times in the frost field. and yes those auras which you create in that combo field are considered “shared” thus giving staffs more fury than a d/d or at least as much because the lightning have a 25sec cd with 10sec of fury once applied. and even if staff had somewhat less the trade of for a few seconds of fury for a megnetic shield is worth it imo.

@zenith
you might be accurate on the heals. they are harder to hit. but if u use it on a guardian he can combo finish in it. not to mention that you can combo in it. but in a pug group yeah, a d/d heal for more.

burst is not needed in dugeons. at all. completely useless. unless you are speed running it.

and how do you deal dmg as a d/d vs the dredge bosses? yeah u heal better on those bosses but you must deal dmg, right?

ok, so healing is worse. but i can take that downside because the upsides of a staff is basically everything else. unless you have a argument for those as well. i can make a point list of what they do better:

d/d
+easy to land heal, (better in pugs but aoe have greater potential in a premade group)
+maybe a few seconds of extra fury.
+burst. ( this is the reason its good in pvp)
+mobility ( this is the other reason its good for pvp)

-no dmg beyond 600 = less dps and the need of more defense, meaning even less dps)
-less dps (see above reason)
-less combo fields.
-less useful combo fields. (lets face it water combo field is more useful)
-less usefull aoe fields ( frost fields is one of the best out there)

so all in all d/d is great in pvp, but staff is just superior in dungeons. unless you are in a premade group to fulfill a specific role witch the staff can’t fulfill.

in pugs ppl usually look at. can you deal dmg?, can you survive? can you do something special that another class can’t. we can deal dmg, and we can survive, and we bring fury to the entire team. thus both d/d nd staffs are viable. it’s a preference of play style. all i’m saying is that in a dungeon the ele is to the maximum effect with a staff in general.

@parsee komeiji (latest post)
the point with fire aura notation was probably because others can leap through it. usually you don’t want to get hit by anything so having fire, frost, ligthning aura doesn’t really mean anything to you as a elementalist. but can mae a huge diffrent on a condition dmg necro or thief ( idk if they have any leap)

and note that it is not the person shooting the projectiles that receive the regeneration but it’s the person standing next to the target. correct me if i’m wrong.

and yeah ele combo field are greatly underrated. even i don’t use the lightning sometimes because i think it won’t matter. but it really does. ( also make sure not to put it over a water field so someone combo blast in the lightning area. as it will only generate swiftness).

tom.7468:

Anti projectiles is unique for guardian just like portals is unique for mesmer, stealth for theif, pets for ranger, banners for warrior, kits for engineer, attunements for elementalist,wells is unique for necromancer…DEAL WITH IT

how about a simple “no”.

you clearly miss the point of this thread. and anti projectiles isn’t unique to guardians. its the quantity of it. stealth isn’t unique to thiefs it’s the quantity of it, attunement and kits are _ profession skills_ and can’t be compared with skills or effects. wells are simply another name for AOE.

if you want to compare anti-missile skills please do proper comparisons.

kiba.2768:

here’s a thought:

you guys are dissecting guardian’s wor and soa in terms of fractals and yet don’t realize that asking for a nerf on them will drastically affect their ability to perform in wvw and other non fotm areas of the game.

i’m not fanboi’ing both utilities. i’m looking at them from a wider point of view than those in here that want those abilities to have shorter duration/longer cd.

i also find it funny calling for a rebalancing of 2 utilities based on 1 part of the game. there is only pvp and pve. fotm is pve. you can’t possibly ask for a balance in fotm ONLY. it would be pve-wide.

i didn’t know they were used that much in wvw :/ i always though there were better utilitys for wvw for a guardian. shouts for example. but more to the point. spells will always have their weaknesses and strengths in different types of game modes. balancing a spell in all game modes. is very hard. but when they make a spell so grossly overpowerd in one game type it must be nerfed even if it means it’s death in the other.

i mean it’s like asking for a buff for a useless skill in pve. but that would make it op in wvw. some skills are meant for different type of content.and in wvw you have potentially more than 10 guardian in a large group. and reducing the time it’s up and lowering the cd would maybe even be considerd a buff to wvw as a battlefield is very flexible as you advance / retreat thus making it have a greater affect in the long run.

kiba.2768:

guardian damage is not on par with a thief’s(single target, anyway). they have to have some sort of calling card that makes parties want to group with them. just like ele’s have more aoe capability(not for long), would you consider reducing their aoe radius or duration because it makes killing the lava elementals that much easier?

funny you mention this as anet have stated they will be nerfing both ele’s ability to bunker in pvp and nerfing aoe in general.

kiba.2768:

guardians are one of the most balanced classes. that’s me defending them as a whole.
try running fotm with 5 guardians. sure, no one will go down. but guess what…it takes longer than if you had a mixed party comp and you could still complete without any deaths if everyone knows their profession. i speak from experience with pugs only.

yeah the are balanced, and yes, maybe even one the most balanced classes in the game. but that does not stop individual spells being OP in certain situations to the point where the content is AFKable.
and nobody was saying that 5 guardians in a group would be efficient.
the reason why a guardian is good in dungeons is because hey know exactly what to do. get up there and be in the face of the enemy or be ranged and protect your allies. and people know that. same goes with warriors but they are more oriented to dmg than support.

but you are right if everybody knows his and hers profession then it doesn’t really matter that much. but no matter how you go around it. 2 guardians will always make most boss fights easier. (as long as he knows his profession)

i’d say the later. because it’s the most “just” thing as a great sword precursor shouln’d have a greater chance of droping then any other precursors just because the legendary have 2 different skins.

however i can’t just go in here and say that this is correct without showing any numbers. but from my experience, ( i was very interested in the investigation of the ratio) the people crafting greatswords and other precursors had come out with somewhat the same values. so i’d say the later. due to numbers and simple logic.

Essence Snow.3194:

Agree as well. Wonder why (haven’t searched) there isn’t a thread asking when legendaries that will actually “show off your accomplishments and symbolize all of the things that you’ve been doing” besides playing the tp will be added to the game?

you missed them(they are in the crafting topic), i’ve made some pretty long texts about it.
and sadly most people on the forum thinks that the legendarys are fine right now and shouldn’t be altered in any way. apparently grinding gold is a “legendary feat” to them. some of them even think the 1mil karma / 500 badges are to much to ask.

my opinion in this matter is:

yeah, my opinion is rather long and off topic so i put it a spoiler so only those who wants to read it may do so.

OT
I see, 30 min giving you a few gold, and then 3h should easily give 10. well, tbh i haven’t tried that much flipping. so i really should’t have commented :P.

charr does not appeal to me.

there, fixed the topic name for ya!.

but seriously. wtf. just because you don’t like them mean the entire community dislike them and thus should be removed from the game? what the kitten?

it’s like saying. “i don’t like bacon, so it shouldn’t be allowed to eat it”( i love bacon, its wierd it isn’t in the game).

the charr is so essential in the lore of gw2 and u probably don’t even realize it. for starters, they were the reason why orr sunk in the first place.

(have i been trolled?)

Zenith.7301:

Ele’s are not unwanted in high level fractals; you’re just seeing saturation of low armor/hp classes and so guardians and warriors and classes with better innate tanking abilities are in high demand.

They don’t reject you as an ele because eles are not good; next to the guardian and warrior they are the best PvE classes for support (warrior for damage, guardian also for support).

They reject you because there are already too many eles, and if you’re serious most PuGs that don’t have at least someone or two people who can take hits and soak damage means lots of wiping with disorganized people.

I can’t believe people are seriously saying eles are unwanted/ You d/d auramancer with high toughness and healing can deal still fair aoe damage, have 2 aoe CC, 3 aoe heals and condi removal for the group, aoe chill to control enemies, fire fields for buffing your group, and on top of it all the auras shared (aoe stun and chill on hit).

You are insane if you think eles are not useful in a group. Just don’t try to beat warriors in damage, because you won’t. Build for your currents strength, which are support and some decent aoe damage.

P.S. With aura sharing and Elemental Attunement trait I can give my allies high fury uptimes (basically everyone in the group will be critting a bunch, greatly increased damage output for the group), swiftness, close to permanent regen, and easily 6 seconds of protection every 10 seconds. With group condi removal every 10 seconds plus the aoe heal. Only a guardian can get close to supporting like I do, and not even because I give more fields and the difference is that the guardian’s boon sharing is far more limited and his tanky build more selfish than a bunker ele with much lesser damage output.

^this^

however i roll a ele staff support/dps. and i feel its more usefull than d/d support because: more clenses, more healing, more regeneration, more fury, more swiftness, more dmg ( because you are ranged), better and more auras (imo), more and better combo fields (imo), as a staff you don’t need as much vit/tough either so u can switch out some gear for more dps and more chill.
i’m not really sure why one would like to go d/d over a staff in dungeons. i get it why one go with it in pvp/wvw as it brings alot of singletarget fire and mobility. and isn’t as vulnerable as a staff ele. but maybe i’m missing something :/.

Malediktus.9250:

Sarcasmic.6741:

Every weapon does horrible damage when you aren’t built for damage. So yes, that would be why you think scepter is bad. It isn’t.

If you build for damage you need the reflects and shields even more. Guardians have the lowest base health of the game (among elementalists).

yeah, maybe you need the shield. but does the entire team need it? if it does it’s a bad team, if they need it to be able to complete the boss they should work on dodging. the shields however makes the bosses AFKable and that’s what the OP think is OP… lol.

despite. if u go for a power, prec toughness build with some vitality. you dont need those shields. your defence should be enough (unless you are going high level fractals where the shields helps alot. but they doesn’t only help you. the help the entire team.

the shields are op in certain fights, like, grossly op. if they should last that long there need to be a maximum amount of blocks/reflections. but the overall fix is just to reduce the time it lasts maybe even reduce it to 5sec and reduce the cd some to make it a more “active” skill. using the shield for a certain attack (like the dredge boss bombs) is what this skill should be used like.

and there is a very good reason why they have such a low hp pool. because they have a TON of heals. see it like this: warrior need a big hp pool because they use it as a timer: “how long i can be in a fight”, once he is out of health he need to go to ranged. the guardians hp pool serve another purpose. “this is how much spike dmg i will be able to take before i die” and if they don’t read the enemies spike dmg good enough they will die.

and if guardians “need” a those shields if he go dps, well, why wouldn’t a ranger need one? or a elementalist or any other profession?

Navzar.2938:

Wouldn’t 5x eles actually be really pro? Think about it, that’s permanent shock aura right there.

A single d/d aura share ele can provide high amounts of protect/fury/swiftness/might/regen to the whole group, and that’s far from useless.

i’ve though of it. but i’d rather play 5x staff then with a 85% upptime on magnetic aura (reflective) and with all playing with glyph of elemental we would have 2 stone elementals tanking for us which we can heal. they would also be constant chilled, crippled and immobilized for a good while. we would also have a tone of combo finishers. yeah it would be epic.

5 eles in a pug however is a completely different story. which this post is all about.

i’m a ele fractal 30 player. and while ele is great in fractal aswell ( and fun for that matter). it’s nothing compared to a guardian. the utility is too good. like you say he can shield the entire party at a more then 50% upptime vs ranged. not to mention the guardians amazing ability to “tank”. i like you’r approach " make the abilitys last shorter". make them on par with the elementalists earth aura for example. (lasts 5sec 30sec cd) and make some of the boss encounters more meele. the AC kholer boss is amazing, due to the fact that the boss is very mobile. make more bosses like kholer ( but with more then 1 dodge mechanic every 30sec which can be blocked). the only boss there is with this theme is the cliffside bosses. its less than 15% of all the bosses there is… that boss fight is probably the best bossfight in the fractals. ( jade maw is worse due to undodgeble agony which makes it a gear check)

note i’m making a guardian atm with one purpose; playing fractal. sure, ele is good in fractals but guardians is just plain op.

can’t u roll X guardians + a mesmer? all of them uses the elites ( tome of healing or w/e its called and quickness for 10sec aoe) will give the party a nice hp/sec. right? or is the agony insta downed?

yepp you sum it up nicely. having a ascened amulet in the future with celestial stat or any stat at all will make the triforge obsolete. considering the price on that item, it should at no point become obsolete. lets whait and see, maybe you will upgrade the current amulets to the ascended, thus if you want the celestial stat on your amulet you would have to get the triforge and then upgrade it. but until they add amulets we will not know for sure.

im running with berzerker gear, with (prec,power,toughness) trinkets (berz jewels) and celestial rings and divinity runes. this gives you quite high dps and you will still be able to take a few hits from low level mobs. and be able to heal it up with your skills. ( i run 0/10/0/30/30) staff with aura sharing for perma fury for the entire team. ( atm i’m fractal 30)

as for the reddit post, its a great post, but misses important factors like might and fury. for example, critchanse and critdmg makes each mightstack deal more dmg and the fury makes critdmg more important. so i’d recommend making these calculations with how many might stacks you have in general in a group. and how long upptime your fury have.

the max level of fractal is irrelevant. only reason to go further than 40 ( or even 30) is only for the challenge. ( or a greater chance of receiving fractal weapons, which is only a skin and no stats.) but yes max level is 80 but only the most hardcore premade groups make it that far.

as for if it’s worth to level up your fractal level. most people stop at 10 and only complete daily for 20 days until they have the ascended rings they want and the back.
for those who want to be prestigious and get a few of the fractal weapons might want to get some more AR and get to level 20 and 30.

as for rewards. fractals is probably the most efficient time spent in terms of both (xp or karma) and gold if you have a premade group that complete each fractal efficiently ( maybe even restarting just to get the dredge fractal or ascalon) you can easily make 3g /h and remember you still get fractal relics witch can be spent on obsi stones or skillpoints which can be converted to gold in few ways. so if you can find a group which farms fractal lvl 16-30 once or twice per day and doing it rather fast you will make a descent amount of gold. sure you might get unlucky sometimes, but sometimes you get supper lucky like 1 charged lodestone and a few cores with a few rares.note: all monsters inside the fractal can drop precursors. ( as long as they have a drop table )

so, in short. it’s worth it if you want to get a higher gold /h , but you’ll have to fight for it.

The Blue Ace.2850:

This game isn’t about adverture, jorneys and epic battle anymore, it just full of gold market players and whats worst is that legendarys are 90% market required.

sadly, yes, this is true. but i have no idea of how to fix current situation on legendarys other than remove them from the tp, and make precurser have a increased chanse of drop and make then acc bound… but that would prob kitten me off even further.

OT: 10g in 1/h. sounds legit. that’s 17s/min. you have to be crazy good to pull that off for even a few minutes.

sounds like he have been doing investment as well as 1k gold is very hard to do with only flipping 3h/day for a month.

most likely he allready have a capital beyond 1k gold anf have thus invested say 500g and there is items out there quadrupling in value over a month or two. thus he can afford another legendary and keep investing in future markets. but idk.

nice good statistics. i had something similar. but i think i made it around 190 tries but i only got 2 lodestones.(also only the 1 recipe)

i see it as a question. “what server do you want to fight for in WvW?” you can only chose one as otherwise it would defeat the purpose of WvW.

great thing. i just hope they make transfering to lowpop-servers really low. but idk :P

well, i’ve been thinking for abit, and i’ve been playing higher fractal levels (30) and then i did some more thinking and here we are.

a new way of how we think of dungeons team composition.

well the old composition doesn’t really work in gw2 ( tank,healer,dps,dps,dps. or a variety of it)

and the new composition have been fuzzy to say the least. (support , ? , ?, ?, ?)

well, i’m gonna give it a try to make it a bit clearer, ( i’m not sure i will succeed but it sounds nice in my ears anyway)

the front-line back-line composition! ( i don’t have a better name for it)

basically what it is is that there is a back-line and a front-line that are supporting each other and where classes have different rolls to play. the front is the aggro magnets and are the guys who will take up the main part of the aggro. and the back is there to help the front to stay alive and helping them being able to keep the aggro.

but whats the goal with this type of composition? to keep the enemy in place, keep them as controlled as possible so our AOE hit them and letting our front stay in those great supportive signets that guardians can have and those healing abilities from engineers and elementalists. if we stay in place, where we have good support for our front line and it can survive. the entire team can start using their AOE to maximum effect. if the area is affected by things like a firestorm or other really mean aoe spells, we back off and find a better position.

so with this in mind we now have a composition looking like this; ( frontline support , front line dps or tanky, ??? , back line support, back line dps or utility ) the fifth member is preferably a front liner as well but i think 2 front is good enough.

this composition breaks up at boss fights where it’s usually more ranged and more defensive play. so just pick you ranged weapon of choice and starting working on that hp pool.

pmnt.4067:

Yes, the elementalist really shines with AoE damage in PvE, but there is no real single target option for the ele – and single target damage is needed in dungeons for boss battles or killing specific mob types fast. The AoE helps only with trash which is skipped anyway.

yes, boss battles isn’t our strongest side. that’s why i usually bring a greatsword as my elite for boss fights like bloom or cliffside bosses, it increases your dmg dramatically.
and while our single target dmg isn’t the greatest it isn’t that that far from your dmg. maybe you deal 20% more single target dmg. and like you stated furthr down the post. its all about outlasting and not dmg. so the 20% dmg loss isn’t that big of a deal. because i bring other things like heals and cc to the team.

pmnt.4067:

The survivability in PvP comes from many small heals, which negate the next 2 or 3 attacks. But that small heals are worthless in dungeons, where everything two shots an ele with 0/10/0/30/30 spec, PVT+Cleric gear.

You don’t bring an ele for damge, but for his amazing utility – which is just unwanted/useless in high level fractals.

in what way is utility unwanted/useless in high level fractals??? i mean the very reason why guardian is so kitten useful is because they have utility like wards and shields and aegies witch is very rare utilities in other professions. not to mention that they buff the party with amazing might stacks or providing the front line with protection and/or regeneration + heals.

pmnt.4067:

@Vid: Win through outlasting, not damage. If you try something like that in Fractals you’re downed at ~0:20

could’t agree more. probably less though.

OT:
well, I just checked gw2lfg.com and i found no “lfXm (no ele/thief)” posts. and i checked both eu and na. and very rarely do i see a post like that if my own experience is something to judge by.

most posts at lvl 25+ contain of +XAR and the word guardian in some form.

jinxy.8457:

I personally feel that 20 in fire for the reduced weapon skills is a must for Staff elementalist

i used to think this aswell actually. and yes it is a very strong trait because mainly when we deal dmg we use fire and its spells. but i have to disagree.however, this is from a dungeon perspective so if you talk about wvw then i might agree with you as you normally just stick with fire when you are playing staff ele in wvw. but then again when i’m playing ele in wvw i roll d/d.

lets break it down, fire have no other type of spells other than dmg. well, ok, it have a dodge but a 20% cd reduction wont make it much more reliable. and an elementalist usually find himself in 2 different types of modes we are either in dps mode or in utility mode. a typical dps mode encounter is the snowblind fractals last boss. the boss is super easy and we really just want do as much dmg as we can so we can have it all over with asap. in these types of scenarios the 20% cd reduction is a nice trait, but note its not needed its just a nice bonus.

in the utility mode we usually switch between the elements like crazy. water 3,5 for healing, water4 for chill , earth 4,5 for cc, earth 3 for projectile reflection, earth storm for blinds, lightning2 for a blind and lightning5 for a aoe cc and fire so we can deal dmg ( we need dmg to kill them, right?). so in the typical utility mode situation we only go into fire to get down 1 autoattack, fire2 and dodge if needed followed by lava , meteor ( and maybe lava again) and then into another attunement so we then can continue with whatever the situation need. so the fire 2,3,4 will most likely be off cd once you enter the fire attunement again. thus the cd reduction is useless because we don’t have any cd on them anyway. the only thing that really gain on the 20% cd reduction is the meteor shower. witch is a initiation spell in most cases because either the encounter is allready over (or soon to be) or it is to risky to stand still for the 4 sec that’s needed to get the full effect. so very rarely do u actually gt to use of the 20% cd reduction.

in my opinion the water 20% cd reduction is better than most water traits because it lets me use my combo ( as i described before) 20% more often, meaning my group have 20% more fury uptime. witch in its turn gives us more overall dps. not to mention that almost all of the water spells have long cd. i use the 20% cd on water spells in my build atm. and you might wonder why i’m not using the extra dmg while over 90% hp.

simple logic; when a fight is difficult i need as good traits that i can possibly give myself .and during a hard fight i will be below 90% of hp for 50% of the time at least.
when fights are easy i wont need any traits, i would have made it anyway so the extra dmg just makes it somewhat faster. and for me its more about being able to succeed in a hard fight rather than how fast i can succeed at easier fights. that’s why i’m playing fractals and not AC.

also it takes 20 into fire to get the cd red. i don’t know what to sacrifice… :S i wont sacrifice anything in arcana as they are all to good ( 100% more dodges , bigger aoe with staff , evasive arcana) i need 15 in water to get the heal on atunement swap witch is really good and have saved me many times. and i need 10 in air for zephyr’s boon witch is the best dmg trait in our trait book. so that leave me with 15. witch isn’t enough.

Reldin.3217:

I see this guide as more of a loophole for D/D Eles who switch to staff in certain situations supportish even.
It might work but there are far superior staff builds out there.

and yet you don’t seem to have a better build because you don’t state why the guide is more of a loophole for d/d ele, nor do you link or make a quick example of a “better” staff build. as a dungeon experienced staffi this guide is pretty much what i’ve concluded aswell part from a few small details which i disagree with.

Hypno.2649:

So the ‘perma’ fury = swaps plus one E3 cast per full rotation? (or does something else proc it)

I don’t get WarAxx’s talk of proc’ing Zephyr’s Boon from an Ice Field.

i can clarify my combo i mentioned:

first put down water4 infront of you, quickly switch to earth and use earth 2 inside the frost field asap ( if u do it to late you wont get the third proc). then dodge into the frost field, ( if you have the evasive arcane witch most eles have you will have a combofinisher in earth dodge). and once you’ve dodged into the frost field you may proceed to use your arcane blast ( which also is a very popular skill due to the fact its a combo finisher)

(basically its 3 combofinishers in 1 frost field. giving us 3 frost auras)

a few notes; firstly the zephyrs boons proc will “wait” for a while, if u make all combo finishers go off at the same time, then additional fury/swiftness will be added after 3 and 6 sec because that’s how long the auras last. ( the auras will stack on each other and wont activate until the previous frost aura have worn out), try it out and you’ll understand.

secondly, the auras applied this way will count as a “shared aura” thus it will also grant fury and swiftness to allies that is in the blast area ( with the trait). however, if you are in the blast area and you are within 400 units of an ally which is not in the blast area he will not receive the aura. it’s only the blast finisher that can give the aura and its buffs.

and please, it’s Waraxx

hope it clarified.

I didn’t read the hole thing, I’ll admit that, but i read through the trait part. and i must say that while ArcaneV (elemental attunement) is a great trait and its probably one of the “must have”-traits, there are better traits to be taken in the arcane tree especially as a staffi. like you said, the V, VI , VIII , XI. are the best. so we have 4 different traits to choose between. so here is a few reasoning why i choose other than you:

V ( elemental attunement) : great trait but as i will explain, the other is better.

VI ( renewing stamina) : in the most ele staffs build you have high critchance (40+) and you hit usually quite a few foes, this in combination with 30% extra boon duration should give 100% up time of vigor. which grants us 100% more dodges. V is good, but you cant compete with 100% more dodges. ( note, i’m usually playing higher fractals where a dodge makes a huge different in a lot of situations.) the only reason why V should be taken over VI is because its more supportive. but note its a rather low range ( only 360 or 240) so you have to be reeealy close to others in order to have any good use of it. and if your smart as a staffie you stand 1000-1200 units away from the front-line. and as a egoistic trait the VI is better.

VIII ( staff have bigger aoe): as you said it’s a must have. as a staffie this is good no matter if your going supportive, dps or a mix of them. I’ve tried without it but i quickly changed it back.

XI (evasive arcana): this spell brings more utility than the V trait due to blast finisher and aoe heal and aoe blind.

so it all comes down to if you want the V or the VI trait. and in my mind VI is a clear winner due to the OP-ness of being able to dodge 100% more of the time which have saved me sooooo much more than a few seconds of protection or regeneration.

but that’s my opinion, maybe you have a different view on this choice.

one of my favurite combos is ;

w4 , → earth , e1 inside w4 , dodge into w4 , arcane wave ( , e3)

this will grant you 19 (26) seconds of fury if you have the zefhyr boon. and this with attunement swaping will keep you at permanent fury even without having to switch attunements very often. you could add this as a combo. this is very useful if you have a lot of critdmg as it will increase your dmg output with 10-30% (depending of how much critdmg you have).

if they think aoe is op, why not just make everything single target. i mean kitten aoe; Area OF Effect … wth. (just pointing out the obvious). in my point of view it loses the term aoe when its limited to 3,5,6 or any numbers at all. because then it doesn’t effect all the entities inside the area. please, remove the 5 limit. everything that says its “AOE” should be what the spell say. otherwise please say “AOE, but can hit max 5 enemies/allies.”

hm, i havent tried it yet, but a ele have the means to do it. maybe apart from the kholer, as he has way to much mobility / heavy auto attacks we cant take.

but after a few days of trail and error i might have been able to do it. ill probably give it a try in the future with my ele atm i dont have the computer power to record and playing at the same time. and just coming on the forum and saying i beat ACP1 my self as a ele doesn’t quite cut it. if u have a way i can prove it without recording it ill give it a shot tomorrow maybe i can have fraps take a frame every 30sec or so, would that be enough with proof? i would much rather do it in a nice video as OP, but i cant because of computer limitations.

and do u have to kill all the mobs in order to complete the dungeon? or is skipping aloud?

awsome video, and some beast skills u have there.

im not a “wealthy player” but i cernly have more than most and i have made quite som moneh on the tp. soi could answer it.

atm i’m only doing long term investment. such as skins from Halloween or mini pets from the kraka event. because those are bound to gain in value. meaning that i cant lose my investment. (well, a very small chance). these kind of items usually doubles in price over time if not even triples. sure, it takes a month or 2. but i will get the coin in the end. and i don’t mind having 4+ legendary + anything i want in 2 or 3 years if anything that the Anet-devs have said is true, then I plan with sticking with the game.

however in order to make some decent money for a monthly 2:1 return, you need quite a large capital. so i got my money from playing the tp actively. i managed to make 700g from the tp before my market crashed. and then i had a hard time to find a new market. also i found myself not playing the game for the most part. I played the tp for 90% of the time. witch i don’t like, so I started to make long term investments, because those require a very small amount of time and a quit easy to find imo.

TL;DR all cooments.

just wanna throw this out there. it isn’t only the skippers that’s dushe baggs. tday i were with a group where 3 wanted to skip and 2 wanted to kill kholer. well, we had our arguments and the 3 of us gave in, on one agreement; that if the two that wanted to kill kholer died, we would skip him. (I don’t mind killing kholer if everybody stay alive and dps him.) so, it was a gentelmens agreement, i though. not 10% into kholers life they both died because of one pull in/whirlwind. so we said, lets skip now. and both left. wtf.

so don’t go with the argument “skippers are dushe bags” bacause there is dush bags on both sides!

i’m sorry if this post was irrelevant or just useless.

well the tactics should still be there i think. but a boost in our chancees i think could be increased. make every player have the chance “weight” of 2 or even 3 pets

or

randomize a player and if the player have any pets/minions then randomize between the player and his pets again.

just some thoughts.