Guild Wars 2

A boss can easily have 1 million health while in PvP players have like 20k. Should damage skills also get additional effects (like control) because they are less efficient at killing the target?

PvP is 5v5, not 5v1 like PvE.

But sure, defiance can be reworked so that every interrupt instead gives a stack of miss. One stack of miss nullifies one hit from an attack. So single target attacks could be nullified with 1 interrupt, cleaves with 3 interrupts and area attacks with 5 interrupts.

But I’m pretty sure this would make even more people confused and complain how control doesn’t work. Not to mention that it wouldn’t really make any sense.

Greatsword and Axe are already fairly balanced in PvE and Warrior definitely isn’t top damage in PvE. So I don’t think big PvE nerfs to HB are justified.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Creatures gain an exploration XP bonus when they have not been killed recently. Try killing yellow creatures you find on the less traveled areas of the map; they don’t get killed very often.

What about white creatures? :/

CC skills are balanced for it. If boss uses area attack everyone has to dodge. If you want to interrupt it everyone must interrupt.

Defiance stacks work very well if you consider how simple the system is. All you need is a little bit of coordination and planning.

The real problem is that interrupts don’t put most skills on full cooldown. This makes interrupts very ineffective because the interrupted skill can be used again after few seconds. If enemies got full cooldowns interrupts would become pretty useful.

The second problem is that there is no need for interrupts. Other forms of defense (evading, blocking, reflects) are much easier to use. Content is so easy that you can get through even after messing up a lot. Enemies don’t have powerful defensive skills to keep them up or really devastating offensive skills which would wipe half of the party unless interrupted.

I would also reduce defiant stacks by one so 5 players would need 5 interrupts per interruption.

Reported for selling gold.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Wethospu.6437:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

What theorycrafting? Those are hard facts about how the game works.

Always check your “facts” in game.

Fact: base burst skill cooldown is 10 seconds.

Fact: Discipline gives 5% reduced burst skill cooldown per trait point.

Fact: A maximum of 6 points can be invested in a single traitline.

Fact: 100%-30%=70%

Fact: 70% of 10 seconds is 7 seconds.

Fact: It doesn’t work like this in GW2.

And yes I know how it works.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

What theorycrafting? Those are hard facts about how the game works.

Always check your “facts” in game.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The fact warriors don’t get to spam burst skills until it hits anymore is also a definite plus.

Where is this fairytale coming from? You do know burst skills have at the very least a 7 and 3/4 second cooldown right?

7 second cooldown minimum. 10 seconds base, traitline reduces this by 30%. 10 seconds-30%=7 seconds.

I have no idea where people get the idea of the additional 3/4 seconds. That may have been what it was when the cooldown was part of Burst Mastery instead of the traitline, however.

—

What makes you think your theorycrafting applies to the game at all?

In my opinion to compensate changes, CI should work even when not hitting anyone. This would give an option to use burst skills offensively or defensively while also making it reliable.

Now that’s something I can approve! Very nice!

You can avoid Ettin’s melee by running through him so don’t need to kite that much.

Goliath.7382:

Fair enough. I knew that unless you were familiar with games like D&D 3.5, the concept of a challenge rating might go over your head. To address the arguments that you’ve stated:

1) There are exactly two challenging forms of PvE content at the moment. Teq and Triple Trouble. Even those have to be taken with a grain of salt, because while they do require coordination, any shmuck who show’s up to the map early enough can simply join in with the actual organized players and ride their coattails to the reward while putting in minimal to no effort. This is not the case with PvP, where if even one person doesn’t pull their wait, the whole team will suffer for it.

2) Self-imposed rules do not make the challenge harder. The challenge stays the same regardless, all you’ve done is purposely lower your chances of succeeding at said challenge. If you go to the local fair and decide to play that game where you have to knock over those three bottles with a softball to win a bear, all you have to do is knock over those three bottles. It’s not like you’re going to win a better prize or anything for managing to do it with your eyes closed.

No worries, I have no trouble understanding the concept of giving arbitrary values to various things. If you want to separate a part of a challenge and give it a number, feel free to do that.

1) If that’s what you consider challenging then you have no idea what you are talking about. Unfortunately not much point to discuss any further until you get more knowledge about the PvE content.

2) Self-imposed rules create a new challenge. Original challenge (without that rule) obviously stays same. There are no strict rule sets how the game should be played. You are free to play it as you want and create your own challenges.

As I have stated above, reward is not same thing as content. Content still exists even if it doesn’t give any rewards. If you are good with throwing softballs, don’t really care about the beer and want to challenge yourself then you can try it eyes closed.

Similarly, if you want to challenge yourself in the game you have plenty of options, even in the PvE. Only proper rewards are lacking which is what this topic is kind of trying to address.

Yes, difficulty of the task depends on the task itself. But it also depends on the environment and the person doing it.

Do you realize how flawed that CR is as a number? It doesn’t mean anything on its own. There is no guarantee that a fight with 90 CR is harder than a fight with 50 CR. Everyone (hopefully) understand that soloing Lupicus is harder than doing it with a party.

Reminder of what my actual arguments are:

1) It’s possible to play challenging PvE content

2) Self imposed rules make challenges harder

And if they made huge reworks and changed lots of encounters you would probably still be complaining how things take longer to kill and how annoying mechanics prevent you bursting everything down in less than 30 seconds.

So why would they bother?

Honestly if I was a developer I also wouldn’t bother with dungeon community because many of you seem to complain about every single change, while also of course, complaining about how nothing ever changes.

If PvE is stale then isn’t it nice that something changes?

Yes, if it affects the task.

No, self imposed is not the definition of arbitrary. For example restriction to solo Lupicus is self imposed but it’s not arbitrary. It’s well thought and makes sense for the encounter. However, a restriction to solo it without Banner of Defense would be arbitrary because it makes no sense.

According to you self imposed rules don’t increase challenge. So soloing Lupicus has same difficulty as when doing it on a group.

Let’s say developers add minipet for soloing Lupicus. Would soloing it suddenly get harder?

data.4093:

This is too funny. Posters have shown time and time again that there are exclusive pve rewards and that pve gets way more content but you all keep beating the horse. It’s like a group of spoiled children who think if you cry and whine enough, daddy Anet will give you more stuff. PvP has been the neglected middle step-child of GW2 for 2 years. 2 effing years. And when they get 1 armor (just 1) some of you turn into screaming, crying babies. It’s pathetic.

Game is split to casual PvP (WvW), high end PvP (sPvP), casual PvE (LS and open) and high end PvE (dungeons and fractals).

Guess which one gets the most updates?

NewTrain.7549:

Wethospu.6437:

Inherent challenge doesn’t mean anything so your point is countered. While difficulty of every tasks depends on the task itself it also depends on the environment and the person doing it.

I noticed you mentioned nothing in there about arbitrary restrictions on the person performing the task.

Countered. That word doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Care to try again?

Sorry, I can’t counter something which doesn’t exist.

Every task always has restrictions. Whether they are arbitrary depends on your personal opinion. Lots of challenges have “arbitrary” restrictions to increase difficulty, for example gambits in Queen’s Gauntlet.

There is also a correct sequence for PvP.

Ashen.2907:

—
Of course it is possible to decline to use any given skill or game mechanic (with the exception perhaps of damage). That does not mean that they, dodge for example, are not part of the intended design of the game. If I play with my monitor turned off and succeed at a given piece of content because rapidly hitting <1> might actually be sufficient to win some fights even if the player cannot see what he is doing it does not mean that the game is not designed and intended for players to see what they are doing in order to better respond to combat circumstances.
—

I have never said that dodging is not part of the intended design of the game. I’m saying that not dodging is also part of the intended design of the game. It’s only a one way to prevent damage.

Where does the game tell that we should try to “better respond to combat circumstances”? This again sounds like trying enforce your play style on everyone else. Nothing in the game tells that you shouldn’t handicap yourself for personal challenge to have fun.

A self imposed handicap does not increase the inherent difficulty of a piece of content because the content itself is not affected. It does however reduce the player’s performance.

If you choose to walk a marathon rather than running it have you increased the challenge or merely ensured that you will not win ?

Personally, when I am looking for a challenge in a game, I want to see something that pushes the limits of my full capacity, not something that disallows me from using my full capacity.

As I stated above, inherent difficulty doesn’t mean anything. And by your logic, fractal scale 50 has same difficulty as fractal scale 10.

So is PvE now competitive? How do I win in PvE? Oh yeah, fulfilling my own goals (like challenges).

Capacity of yourself or your character? Because handicapping your character is a good way to push limits of your personal capacity.

Inherent challenge doesn’t mean anything so your point is countered. While difficulty of every tasks depends on the task itself it also depends on the environment and the person doing it.

It was a poor example and wasn’t even about my point.

For lots of people GW2 is free time, something they do to have fun. Not a task like morning commute. For some people having fun means challenging themselves, not just getting virtual rewards. And it’s more than possible to challenge yourself in GW2 PvE, using intended and designed features. As I have said now multiples times, we only need rewards for doing those challenging things.

But even my point applies to your example. If you are looking for a challenge then it’s possible to make it more challenging. Just like you said, do it “wearing a blindfold after downing 7 shots of tequila”.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Wethospu.6437:

Solution: Nerf bear form too.

Why dealing with symptoms, if they could instead fix the real flaws?

You mean deleting elementalist and norn?

Icebrood.

What about real cash rewards for PvF?

Ashen.2907:

Wethospu.6437:

So we agree that it’s possible to have intended and designed content without dodging? Thus dodging is not that integral part of the combat.

Again you are focusing on the rewards. Rewards are not content. They are the prize for playing and completing the content. Adding reward doesn’t make things more difficult because the content already exists.

We already have challenging PvE content. We only lack proper rewards for doing it. That’s why I consider it absurd when some people say “PvE lacks hard content so it can’t have prestige rewards”.

I am not focusing on rewards. My only reference to rewards in our discussion, out of multiple paragraphs of commentary, was to point out that in the one instance where Anet intended dodge to not be used they made a point of telling us so by providing a reward.

One instance, an exception to the norm as represented by all but 100% of the game does not represent the design intent for the game as a whole.

A player handicapping himself is not making the content inherently more challenging, he is just choosing to lower his performance.

If your definition of “intended” and “design” is based on whether it gives any reward, then yes, you are focusing on rewards.

There are plenty of content which me and others can clear without dodging. I would say over 75% of PvE content is like that. If you use tanky gear it’s at least 90%. Anyways, not exactly sure what you are trying to prove here. My point was that it’s possible to have intended and designed content without dodging.

So in your opinion if I pick an option to lower my damage by 50% the content doesn’t get harder but if I pick an option to increase enemy health by 100% then the content gets harder?

If not, are you then saying that fractal scale 50 has equal challenge as scale 10 because only health and damage changes?

NewTrain.7549:

Ashen.2907:

A player handicapping himself is not making the content inherently more challenging, he is just choosing to lower his performance.

Truth.

Any task, no matter how mundane, can be made difficult with arbitrary additional restrictions placed on it. I challenge people to perform their morning commute wearing a blindfold after downing 7 shots of tequila. That must mean their morning commute is inherently difficult, right?

That’s just naive. Please make a serious reply if you want to discuss something.

winterchillz.2564:

I can’t believe that:
1) This thread is going for 3 pages;
2) We have people from DnT and rT talking on it;
3) Considering point 1 and 2, you’re all still arguing about the kitten FGS.

The problem is not FGS – if you nerf the damage, people will switch to bear form, no one will bat an eye and you will get similar results. The problem is the extremely boring and easy dungeon/bosses mechanics. FGS is not game/ground/kittenwhatever breaking, FGS just makes the whole encounter faster, it’s not saving you from a certain death if you don’t kill the boss fast enough. Why’s the link of rT’s speedkill Lupi record (which is adowable btw)? You think that they can’t kill it just as good without FGS? It just wont be as fast. We need more champions like Mai Trin that have different mechanics if you want to reduce the focus on FGS, but for me personally FGS is absolutely fine and if you are not fine with it, you’re free to do your dungeons/fractals and speedclear records without it.

Solution: Nerf bear form too.

So we agree that it’s possible to have intended and designed content without dodging? Thus dodging is not that integral part of the combat.

Again you are focusing on the rewards. Rewards are not content. They are the prize for playing and completing the content. Adding reward doesn’t make things more difficult because the content already exists.

We already have challenging PvE content. We only lack proper rewards for doing it. That’s why I consider it absurd when some people say “PvE lacks hard content so it can’t have prestige rewards”.

Ashen.2907:

Wethospu.6437:

You can enter fractals alone and nothing forces you to use your dodge. Sounds like an intended way to play this game.

What you probably meant that it doesn’t give any reward which ironically is the very point of this topic.

The game is designed with dodge as an intended aspect of gameplay. It is integral to the combat design. You can of course choose to forgo its use in high end content but at that point you are not playing the game according to its design intent.

You may be able to enter fractals solo, but its design intent was as group content.

The fact that something CAN be done does not mean that it should be or that it was intended to be done in that manner.

How do you explain Exhausted gambit in Queen’s Gauntlet then? You are not intended to use that gambit?

It’s not a bug or an exploit to enter fractals alone. It was clearly designed like that. If people want extra challenge they are not forced to bring a full group.

People have different playstyles and prefer different things. Please stop trying to enforce your playstyle on everyone as "intended " or “designed”.

You can enter fractals alone and nothing forces you to use your dodge. Sounds like an intended way to play this game.

What you probably meant that it doesn’t give any reward which ironically is the very point of this topic.

A Massive Headache.1879:

I’ll say this again, there is nothing challenging in pve, at all. The gauntlet was nice, but there were complaints about that, which is kind of goes against wanting prestigious pve armor. As it stands, I’d say the only prestigious item in the game for pve, is the fractal tonic.
and to the people who say oh ascended armor is crafted, not pve exclusive anyone can do it, you know what, the hero armor is simple pvp, anyone can do it

Nothing? Really?

Solo Shaman and Ettin with melee weapons and without dodges on uncategorized fractal scale 50. Then we can talk.

Make constructive posts then.

Really? :O Few times I have soloed it I don’t think I bothered with them and was able to progress still completely fine. But I probably remember wrong.

Even if you don’t personally agree with the current rules it should be everyone’s interest to keep tournaments going. This is pretty much the only shot to get any interest towards high end PvE. With future tournaments you and everyone else have a chance to affect the rules.

They could “fix” bleeding on world bosses with approximation. Instead of checking condition damage for every player they can randomly choose 10-25 stacks, get their average tick damage and apply it to the rest of the stacks. Should easily allow 10000+ stacks.

Lots of encounters become a lot more interesting when you solo or duo them. In other words, encounters become better when your group is less powerful.

Tripzter.8623:

frifox.5283:

Exotic sword: 952.5 × 1.1 = 1,048
Ascended sword: 1,000 × 1.05 = 1,050

Ascended has more raw stats too so imo there isn’t much to debate (for lvl 80 at least).

Yea well that’s what I meant.. I agree that for lvl 80 dungeons, sure Ascended got the upper hand.. But since we only have 2 dungeons for lvl 80.. What about the rest? Is it worth it to stick with the same weapons for all of them?

For sub 80 content your ascended weapon has same weapon strength as your exotic weapon.

I seriously don’t understand what you guys see in Healing Signet.

But good job!

I think it would be a draw.

If they don’t start on melee range Lupicus should get 25 stacks because Shaman would spend most of its attacks on locusts.

Lupicus should get nuked to phase 2 by elementals when Shaman gets to 75%. While locusts might be able to break the shield they won’t be around next time so Shaman becomes unkillable.

Once Lupicus gets to phase 3 he should be able to tank and heal infinitely.

Wethospu.6437:

Only thing making it really hard is their magnificent healthbars because it’s so easy to get toasted. I have been able to get shaman to about 50% health.

Tried this for a couple of hours this morning but was only able to get Shaman to 75%. I would estimate this needs like 20 hours of practicing to pull it through.

The challenge is set for any pro warriors!

- no dodging
- minimal kiting (melee hit every 5 seconds)

Tom Yzf.5872:

some good info:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2dhrpa/dungeon_encounters_with_projectiles_that_cannot/

You could also just take a look at gw2dungeons and see which attacks can’t be blocked

Lots of things don’t show up on tooltips.

Most enemies (at least in dungeons) seem to have about 2300-2600 armor which is quite a bit more than what berserker geared players have.

I honestly wouldn’t pay to a random guy who isn’t even inside the dungeon.

Shouldn’t block work then too?

Only thing making it really hard is their magnificent healthbars because it’s so easy to get toasted. I have been able to get shaman to about 50% health.

If you want a real challenge, try it without a single dodge and with zero kiting.

But still nice!

They or you?

Esplen.3940:

Well, I’m going to get yelled at for not getting all the timings right, but you could do something like:
—

Assuming an attack every X seconds the first blow would (on average) come X/2 seconds after internal cooldown. Even with 100% activation chance, it would trigger on average every 1 + X/2 seconds.

With 66% trigger chance and 90% critical, total trigger chance is 59.4% (like you said). So on average you need 1.68 hits to trigger the effect which equals additional 0.68 *X seconds to the trigger time.

So in total it should trigger on average about every 1 + 1.18*X seconds, instead of 1 second which lots of people assume.

With on average 1.00 seconds per hit, total is 2.18 seconds.

With on average 0.750 seconds per hit, total is 1.89 seconds.

With on average 0.500 seconds per hit, total is 1.59 seconds.

On comparison, different games.

Please do some actual math instead of throwing random numbers based on “good feeling”.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

—
Life steal food: 325 health/sec max (assuming 1 proc/second, not unlikely)
—

So in your opinion it’s not unlikely that you happen to hit exactly every second, your every attack is a critical and you somehow always get lucky.