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Instructions for collecting data: Very rough version. I will keep updating it based on questions or any problems.
Introduction
I think it would be nice to have more enemy data on gw2dungeons. It’s pretty simple to check these things but takes some time. If someone has too much time to waste then I would happily accept any help.
Most importantly you should check gw2dungeons.net and see what is actually missing. Then collect data and report to me either here, pm or email (wethospu@gmail.com).
First of all, download example spreadsheet from http://gw2dungeons.net/DL/Example.zip
Enemy health
This is easiest and fastest to check but requires using an external tool (dps utility by frifox, link in the spreadsheet). There is always a risk of getting banned but I’m still here even after using it publicly.
All you have to do is target the enemy and you will see its health. A list to fill is provided on the spreadsheet.
Attack damage
Also easy and fast to check. Just get hit by the enemy. If possible, get hit multiple times and use the highest non-critting value.
However, I need normalized values for gw2dungeons so just fill in your stats to the spreadsheet to scale them properly. A list to fill is provided on the spreadsheet.
Enemy type
Easy to test. See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/gw2dungeons-Help-verifying-enemy-types/first for more info.
Enemy armor
Takes some spreadsheet magic and multiple attacks to get decent estimates. However, because weapon strenth downscaling is unknown this doesn’t work on under level 80 enemies. You can still collect data as it can be corrected later.
Two scenarios:
1) You know armor of a nearby enemy (faster):
Minimize any variables like vulnerability, runes or randoms traits. Pull enemies together. Use any cleave or aoe attack and hit both known and unknown enemy. Damage difference can be used to scale known armor value to unknown armor value.
For this there is a cleave test in the spreadsheet. There are 4 different hit cells. Hit 1 is meant for known enemy and hit 2 for the other one. If attack was a critical you should use “crit” one instead.
You only need to fill Critical Damage value if one hit was critical while the other was NOT (check attributes, use downscaled value). End result is 4 possible armor values depending which values you filled. If you don’t know what is the right one put 0 to unused hit cells. Keep in mind that because of in-game rounding, end result is not 100% accurate.
2)No known armor values (longer):
Minimize any variables like vulnerability, runes or random traits to keep your hits steady. Use the other armor test in the spreadsheet. Fill in your values. Use only one attack (get coefficient from wiki) and keep updating minimum and maximum hit. Hit until sufficient damage is reached or you can guess correct armor value.
Note: Remember to copy-paste new test scenario in both cases. Starting values might be needed to correct stuff later.
Attack animation
Pretty hard to test. You need a video recording tool and some software which allows you to check it “frame-by-frame”. I use one purchased video editing software so no idea about free alternatives.
So record a short video of the attack and then analyze when it starts and when it hits. Also try to describe enemy behavior. Check gw2dungeons for examples. A list to fill is provided on the spreadsheet.
Attack cooldown
Same as above but doesn’t need accuracy. You can also use a timer (clock or your own skill cooldowns).
Record video of the fight (or take time between attacks) and see often the attack is used. Try to get multiple skill usages and report the minimum. Keep in mind in any special requirements like range.
Attack effects
Check duration of any effects like boons and conditions. Record a short video of the attack (or use timer).
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I hope those are being worked on, if not I will let you know. :P
Ok, it’s in with appropriate tweaks. Also added you to credits, hopefully name is fine.
I think it’s intended to work even without killing them.
I can pretty easily fix syntax and check link validity so no problems with that. But I need a verification to access your file.
am i the only one that is amazed about this stats?
How you get that much of everything!?
I mean you are a warrior and so . . . but is not that a lot? even for a warrior? even using food?
Probably stacked might, banners, etc. Just a show off picture.
You shouldn’t blindly follow numbers or equations. You must also keep in mind rules of the game. In this case, critical chance is capped at 100% because double criticals aren’t possible.
Now reflect it!
But at least I know which reddit topic to link when people call elitists toxic.
Well I tell you the truth, you have an evil character!
But your so full of yourself, you don’t even want to see the possibility that I am right (and yes I am!).
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I personally don’t really care who organizes and who get fame and stuff like that. I also don’t really care who wins, loses or gets retaliated (I’m kind of a solo player).
What I care about is how we get anet to work on PvE end game. And for that, we need to make it popular. In my opinion tournament like this is a great chance to gets lots of positive attention. But for that, the matches have to be exciting, especially for the viewers.
I know I have been very aggressively showing my opinion about certain things which has probably annoyed a few of you. Feel free to call me a negative nancy but I didn’t want you to get fooled by success of the first tournament. No one really had any expectations and people were hyped about it so mistakes / bad ideas were tolerated.
I don’t mean to criticize you, I think it was a really good job for a first tournament. However to make this last, it has to go forward. I don’t necessarily mean it has to go forward like I say but of course I will show my opinion. I’m glad to see you guys trying new things on the next tourney.
I genuinely believe removing “no wipe” rule leads to better and more interesting matches. I didn’t like it even before first tourney but wanted to see it in effect. I know my ideas might be all wrong and make the tournament really boring but I have no problem changing my mind if needed.
Do mobs in this game have crit mit ?
10% crit mit mob vs 100% crit player = 90% cc so soonly been playing a few weeks been playing eq/eq2 for 14 years so kinda stuck in there way of talking
Precision is converted to critical chance with a level specific constant. For example at level 80 every 21 precision equals 1 critical chance.
Based on my research, this level specific constant is based on level of the target, not level of the user. For example against level 82 target you need 22 precision for 1 critical chance. This drops ~100% critical chance to ~97 % (estimate).
So you you get reduced critical chance against higher level targets and increased critical chance against lower level targets.
Does 1700 hits count?
Anyways, this should be an interesting read for people interested about things: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12997907-advanced-mechanics
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For PvE, I would say 75% for Defiant Stance and 25% for Healing Signet.
Simple test to verify critical chance scaling:
1) Go to starter area (~ level 5) with about 10 critical chance. Attack level 1 white critters. Notice how most of your hits are not criticals.
2) Go to high level area (level > 40) with about 10 critical chance. Attack level 1 white critters. Notice how most of your hits are criticals.
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I believe when you fight foes of higher than level 80, your crit chance is reduced so someone with 100% crit chance ends up with less than 100% crits, but someone with 119% crit chance may still have 100% crits (not sure what the formula for the reduction is).
Your crit chance isn’t reduced, you have a chance at a glancing blow. If you crit an attack that would be a glancing blow, it will be a normal attack instead. So having more than 100% crit still doesn’t do anything.
I’m interested to know. How have you tested this?
I believe general tips are more useful for new players than advanced physics.
Engineer notes:
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Could you try to format it like in first post please?
Millions of players have played for over a year and no one has yet reported a double crit.
So I would say it’s pretty rare.
I’m actually a programmer, not a warrior. But pretty close guess!
I thought plan was to get meta engineer.
—
4. If we consider Time Warp the measuring stick for an elite, it makes total team dps go from 65k dps to 97.5k dps for 10 seconds. We can say, very roughly speaking, that Time Warp is worth about 325k total damage. A single cast of FGS (assuming someone reasonable picks up the other FGS) is worth about 550k total damage. Time Warp has a 240 second cool down, FGS 180. I understand internal balance vs external balance but nonetheless the value of FGS is —
I know you are just estimating stuff but quickness rarely gives a 50% DPS increase because it doesn’t affect cooldowns. Without any calculations I would say it’s about 40% DPS increase.
Satisfy your inner scientist and contribute.
Come on guys. It’s not exactly rocket science (except for engineer I guess).
About effectiveness of tanking:
Glass cannon elementalist: 1883 armor
Tanky elementalist:
3679 armor from traits, food, runes and gear and + 250 from sigil + 170 from banner + 120 from earth attunement + 180 from signet + 180 from earth shield + 150 guardian trait = 4729
This alone gives 60 % damage reduction (40 % damage taken). Then apply protection (33 % reduction) and weakness (25 % reduction) to get 20 % damage taken.
No idea if frost armor stacks but would give additional 10% reduction resulting in 18 % damage taken.
Chill is a wild card but it can reduce damage up to 40 % (when most damage comes from skills with a cooldown) resulting in 11 % damage taken.
So compared to glass cannon you can have 89% damage reduction. Then pop WvW defense and potion to get 91% damage reduction.
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It heals a set amount based on each hit, or tick of condition on you. It doesn’t heal based on how much dmg you take as its a set amount
Please check your facts.
Yeah, one guy was supposed to do it but haven ’t heard from him for a week.
Would be cool to get these done before the anniversary.
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So any help with this? Still only warrior, ranger and elementalist done.
If you look at other formats like WvW or PvP you can see that defensive stats are not worthless. So any big gear changes would cause serious imbalance.
That depends entirely how you balance it. Indeed a majority of the gear-balance problems arise in PVE, because a lot of PVE is inconsistent to the game’s own combat rules. In that respect GW1 had a more balanced combat system, since a majority of the game’s monsters used the same skills as the players, and respected the same basic rules.
I don’t think a big change like this would necessarily lead to a serious imbalance in WvW or PvP.
Tanky gear and conditions are already rampant in WvW and PvP. I doubt nerfing berserker helps with that.
But sure, it is possible to make other gear choices desirable by nerfing berzerker gear (and I guess every other gear with precision and ferocity) to oblivion. But then what? People find the new best set and it’s same thing all over again.
That is why I specifically said NOT to nerf berzerker into oblivion, but to make other gear combination on par with berzerker.
And how do you plan to make other gear on par without nerfing berserker into oblivion?
Extra defense is not needed so they would have to significantly lower its damage output. Alternatively they could reduce armor but everything would have to literally one shot berserker players to have any meaningful effects.
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Which would completely destroy the skill, expect very niche situations.
You can get through GW2 PvE with tanky gear too. I’m pretty sure if you want to speedrun Dark Souls there is only one choice.
Down side of berserker is that you have to know the content. Unlike with tanky gear which allows you to make dozen of mistakes (facetank) and still come out on top.
If you look at other formats like WvW or PvP you can see that defensive stats are not worthless. So any big gear changes would cause serious imbalance.
But sure, it is possible to make other gear choices desirable by nerfing berserker gear (and I guess every other gear with precision and ferocity) to oblivion. But then what? People find the new best set and it’s same thing all over again.
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Busted!
Does your “high armor class” refer to current heavy armor or every armor? There is barely any difference between current light and heavy armor and even light armor classes use berserker fine.
Even if you could make a tank with heavy armor, why bother? Just use light armor and do more damage.
There is indeed barely a difference between light and heavy armor, and that is a problem. Why you may ask? Well there is a big difference between the classes, and how easy their access to endurance is (if any access at all). Some have great access to endurance, thus negating the cost of berserker gear completely (which is not much of a cost to begin with, since they sacrifice armor). And oddly, the heavy armored classes are also the classes with easy access to endurance. Isn’t that conceptually really bizarre?
Why would you bother making a tank? That is exactly the problem. You have defensive stats in the game, with little purpose at all, since they are all trumped by damage. Even the loss of armor by wearing berzerker, is insignificant. Because armor is rubbish. The scaling is all wrong, causing everyone to wear zerker gear. That is a design problem. Why have all those other stats, if one is clearly superior?
With 15% damage reduction from heavy armor, it’s not very bizarre that heavy classes also have good access to active damage reduction. But still, this has nothing to do with “heavy vs. light”. Even if heavy armor removed dodging while giving massive damage reduction people would still use berserker.
Armor is not rubbish. It is just not simply needed. People farm dungeons to get rewards. More damage means faster kills which means less time spent. Even if PVT-gear made you invincible you would still slow down the run.
How is this related to anything at all?
I would think that was obvious, but I don’t mind explaining it, because it is an interesting topic.
Because the game doesn’t have decent damage mitigation with heavy armor, the game leans too far towards squishy gear, where dodging trumps all. After all, why would you build a tank, when the game doesn’t really allow you to build one? Currently having more dodges is clearly a better defense than having more armor, since armor currently doesn’t do as much as it should.
The berserker trend is emergent gameplay. It is the result of the skewed balance in the way light and heavy armors work, and the way endurance regeneration is illogically spread among the classes. Had they opted for a more sensible system, like the one in Dark Souls, you wouldn’t have zerker dominating the game as much as you have now.
Currently you can combine high damage (berserker stat) with a high armor class, and high endurance regeneration (which means high defense). You don’t need to be a game designer to see that there is something wrong here. Berserker gear is supposed to boost offense, at the cost of reduced defense. But with sacrificing toughness, people bringing zerker gear aren’t sacrificing much of their defense at all (since they can still dodge like crazy).
Does your “high armor class” refer to current heavy armor or every armor? There is barely any difference between current light and heavy armor and even light armor classes use berserker fine.
Even if you could make a tank with heavy armor, why bother? Just use light armor and do more damage.
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Game shouldn’t be balanced around soloing. But yes, banners should be reworked and health halved. And signets removed from every profession.
None of your points have anything do with “heavy vs. light armor”.
But good job turning this into a trinity topic.
They are faking so people don’t know which one is real.
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In Dark Souls lightly armored characters have faster endurance regeneration, which allows them to dodge more, and move faster. And heavy armor really makes you quite slow, and less able to dodge (but you get a lot of tankiness in return). It seems this balance wasn’t considered as carefully for GW2. That is why berserker gear currently dominates the game. Cause and effect.—
How is this related to anything at all?
The issue he’s reporting isn’t the usual small extra range you can get when spamming vs auto-attacking. You cannot spam Long Range Shot to 5000. Funny…the OP’s username is HARDOFREADING.
However, I certainly don’t get 5000 range when I’m traited with EE. I get what looks to be what I expect, which is 1500 with auto-attacks, and the usual bit extra when spamming.
OP…under what circumstances do you see this massive range increase when using EE?
Did you really expect it to be something else than a hyperbole?
You can thank me later!
I wish more people would care about exploring….
gw2dungeons always needs more info!
Most of ranged attacks hit further than their range.
I like the detail! Much appreciated.
With PvP buff it would be the highest damaging skill against 5 enemies (assuming coefficients listed on wiki are correct).
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Or remove ticks from “Simplify enemy health” and “Simplify enemy armor” on settings.
Health: 1,456,840 hp
Armor: 3,456 (0 grubs)
Armor: 6,912 (25 grubs)
25 grubs: +100% armorDid anyone here do similar calculations and has numbers to compare?
Why would you research something which is already publicly available?
Are these correct? I haven’t done P2 for a while.
I was under the impression belka could no longer be 1200 exploited. Also, the golem suit refers to a WP immediately after the spider room which no longer spawns, until after Abom fight.
Yep. Belka can still be exploited using bone wall, and there’s a hole along side the spider room that you can jump up, but they removed the WP. Well, it won’t spawn until after the Abom.
“Yep” in this case meaning yes and no?
I’m perfectly fine with removing banners from warrior, and signets too, and 6k health.
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Are these correct? I haven’t done P2 for a while.
I was under the impression belka could no longer be 1200 exploited. Also, the golem suit refers to a WP immediately after the spider room which no longer spawns, until after Abom fight.
Sorry guys, it’s already taken.
Obal sounds like good guy greg and Wethospu is more like scumbag steve
I only accept people with 20k AP.