Guild Wars 2

insanemaniac.2456:

the optimal rotation is use the highest colored skill on the list that is off cd as quickly as possible

Exactly. Just what I posted on reddit today:

Xyonon.3987:

To be honest – there is no “real rotation” for an engi at all. You “simply” use the skill on top of this list, if it’s on cd, pick the next one. Repeat this process for every single attack.

The perfect rotation constantly changes for each dodge, not perfect attack, 1s on wrong kit, ress, heal, phase switch, alacrity quickness flaws etc.

Therefore, a “perfect rotation” from this data is simply “max dps”. But there is no real “rotation” for an engi, just a priority of skills. Never forget that.

DGraves.3720:

So do your findings confirm the previously known rotations or challenge them? I guess in the end that’s what matters.

The rotation is an illusion.

I think it was 1 hit every ~3 sec I calculated with. That should be the approximate attack speed of the current raid bosses.

So I estimated 1 hit for power Concussion Bomb (5s) and Static Shot (3s) and 1 hit for condi Static Shot (4.8s), but 3 hits for condi Concussion Bomb (8.3s) (yea I was kind with this one xD).

Raid envoirment → perma fury granted.

WAHOOOOOO!!! =^._.^=

It’s finally done! I’m here to share my results with you, my friends!

I present to you, two full spreadsheet with all skills the Engineer has to offer, one for the Power Scrapper and one for the Condition Engineer!

Builds

Power Scrapper
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoClYh9ZBubB0ehl3iCsD/w0i+4D+k/7BnwAA-ThRBABPcBAwTHAAPAAKV/5q9HlfmpEkUADMGA-e

Condition Engineer
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUhSsYfWwWLQ7FLpF13TFANAYJuiHw4PmGFJA-TxRFQBETJRDVu1P1fAwDAIBnAA3t/Q70DQKgFVWB-e
(the ascended Viper back item is missing in the editor)

All skills the builds are using are marked with colors in the spreadsheet:
Blue is awesome
Green is great
Yellow is medium
Orange is weak
Red is terrible
Grey is utility
Purple is passive

Key

Name of the Skill (Whole Chain)
The name of the skill used. If there is a chain, like hammer auto attack, the whole chain is used for further calculations.

Baseline Value
The tooltip power damage. Nothing you should worry about.

Power Damage
The full buffed average power damage of a skill.

Condition Damage
The full buffed average condition damage of a skill.

Total Damage
The full buffed average total damage of a skill.

Cast Time
The time you require after you start casting a skill, until you can continue with casting other skills. Includes aftercast.

<- incl. Quickness
The Cast Time while under the effect of Quickness. Quickness is a boon, granted by the Mesmer, which reduces your cast time by 33% and is considered 100% uptime.
(Note: movement skills are not affected by quickness. The cast time is marked red for those skills in the spreadsheet.
Cooldown
The time you require after you finished casting the skill. The total Cooldown after you start casting a skill would be this value + the Cast Time value.

<- incl. Alacrity
The Cooldown while under the effect of Alacrity. Alacrity is a buff, granted by the Chronomancer, which reduces your cool down by 25% and is considered 100% uptime.

DpS
The damage a skill deals over time all on it’s own. This value is basicly the Total Damage divided by the total Cooldown (means, including Cast Time).

<- incl. Quick. & Al.
The DpS a skill deals, while under the effect of Quickness and Alacrity.

Chrono Boost
The % damage boost a skill will have, if your Chronomancer grants you 100% Quickness and Alacrity.

DpiSCT
It stands for Damage per invested Second Cast Time and determines the priority of a skill or how strong a skill really is. This value shows how much damage you’d be dealing if the skill would have no cool down. It is often mixed up with DpS / Damage per Second which is a completly different value.
For example, a skill which deals 5’000 damage and has 0.5s cast time has a DpiSCT of 10’000. If you have another skill with 20’000 damage output, but a cast time of 4s, it’d have a DpiSCT of 5’000 and makes it a worse skill to use. You’d be dealing more DpS with the first one (as long as we ignore the Cooldown / as long as you use other skills too, at least auto attacks, ofc).

<- incl. Quickness
The DpiSCT including Quickness shows the true strength of a skill. This is the most important value of them all and shows how mighty a skill really is. You should always priorize your skills according to this to achieve max DpS.

Well that should do it! If you have ANY questions at all, feel free to ask! If you have any concerns or think something is off or wrong, yes we all do mistakes, I beg you to tell me right away!

My next project on top of this will be optimal realistic rotation for each raid boss so far, to choose between power and condi, aswell the optimal kits! I’ve already create a rotation builder in Excel which allows you to pick a skill and shows you how much time has passed and when the skill is ready again, aswell as the DpS of that rotation!

Once I’m done with that, I’ll be sharing this “Engi Rotation Builder” with you guys too!

I hope you like my work!

Last update: 18. Mar. 2016

Greez!
- Ziggy! Or for once: Ziggs Ironeye (ign)

Oh boy what have I startet here ... yea the trait becomes weaker if you don’t have 100% condi duration. In fact, the pistol trait adds flat condi duration for pistol skill by 50-100%, accodring to your current condition duration. If you have 0%, it adds 50% pistol duration, if you have 100%, it adds 100%.

Base duration * 1 + your condi duration * 1.5 = end value
3 seconds * (1+0%) * (1+50%) = 4.5 seconds (+50%)
3 seconds * (1+100%) * (1+50%) = 9 seconds (+100%)

You’re probably right. I’ll just use the rifle turret for the max dps then, just to show what the engi is capable of dealing.

Thank you all for your inputs! I really appreciate it

Agreed – but in the end I say medkit #1 is “ok”, but #2-5 are like none existent! They should have the same effect as they have now, but with the skill animation of #1, so you’d have aoe heal and boon apply / condi cleanse etc. That’d make the Medkit REALLY good.

Why not give the mesmer baseline the “old” alacrity effect on himself, but ONLY on himself? Like the elite spec trait → alacrity on Mesmer has increased effectivity.

I wouldn’t like to have this as a chooseable trait, only as a minor or baseline for Chrono, since whatever the other trait options would be, you’d chose this and that’s bad for build diversity.

DGraves is sceptical about everything, you should know this ’bout now. ;D

Because this:

Triggerbrand.8072:

50% ‘pistol’ condi duration, which effectively raises your condi duration to 150%.

Is not true. It raises the pistol duration by 50% wich is in fact a condi duration increase of 100% to 200% (if you have 100%). I wanted to point out that 50% pistol duration is more worth than one may think at first.

So someone played something a “none pro” already did, but now it’s viable? Please be ahead of the “meta” …

Thanks again for those inputs. Good ones. But what do you like most of those:

Elixier Gun
+ Mobility with Acid Bomb if you take a cannon, want to eveade the flame wall or when you want to use it for damage on Sabby and jump to the Flame turrets / vice versa.
+ Small heal with Super Elixier + Healing Mist.
+ Barely useful Stunbreak.
- Damage only for melee.

Rifle Turret
+ Great damage for melee and ranged.
+ CC (knockback).
- Nothing else … :/

Flame Thrower
+ Great ranged damage.
+ CC (knockback).
+ Small blind.
- Terrible melee damage.

Tool Kit
+ Good melee damage.
+ CC (pull), also able to pull thugs who might be dangerious for Druid / cannon runners.
+ Medium ranged damage.
+ 3s block.

What would YOU pick for Sabetha?

Yea it’s not an issue agreed. It would be a “nice to have” thing tough. But rather for power than for condi, wenn you know “the next boss blocks much, lets take that trait and use bomb aa”. For condi I’d really like the suggestion DGraves made – 20% longer duration like other traits already do would be more more enjoyable.

Yet the shorter fuse time sometimes is indeed handy, especially for combos. Maybe a keep both? shorter fuse and longer duration? That’d be REALLY nice.

Actually … there is that one med kit trait that grants you 33% more healing. With that and a full heal gear you get up to 1800 HP and 177% outgoing healing, wich results into 1.2k heals with the medkit aa. Then there is more heal with other stuff, but just sayin, it might be enough to be a healer – not a good one ofc but it’d work if you lack one.

Still the worst kit tough xP

Heya!

Ok tested it with a friend in a lv80 area, using gear that grants me 315 Vitality.

Vitality | 1000 | 1315 | 315 | 1

DMG Phantasms (iWarden, iSwordy, iDuellist, iWarlock, iMage, iDisenchanter)
5821 HP | 6754 HP | +933 HP | 2.96 HP per 1 Vitality Point

Shield Phantasms (iDefender, iAvenger)
12476 HP | 14475 HP | +1999 HP | 6.35 HP per 1 Vitality Point

Clones (all of them)
4171 HP | 4839 HP | 668 HP | 2.12 HP per 1 Vitality Point

So, yea they scale with Vita like I tested about a year ago. So either they patched it with the ninja nerf to all Illusions HP (when defender still had 20k HP) 2 years ago, or it has always been like this.

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

DGraves.3720:

Xyonon.3987:

While I agree with you to focus on Shrapnel Nades and Fire Bomb, I have to tell you, even with that 50% pistol duration (wich results into 200% condi duration, not 150%), grenade autos are still WAY better than pistol autos.

pistol with 100% bleed duration untraited. 7s.

Pistol with 100% bleed duration with chemical rounds. 10.5s

Pistol with 0% bleed duration without chemical rounds. 3s.

Pistol with 33% bleed duration (from traitline) with chemical rounds. 6s. Without 33% = kitten .

I am not sure how you came up with 200%. Explain?

You just did it yourself, now didn’t you?

Pistol with 0% dura is 3s.
Pistol with 100% dura is 6s.
Pistol with chemical rounds is 9s.
3s to 9s → 200% dura.

You have to think about the base 100% duration of a skill, in that case 3s. If you have 100% condi duration, the result is 200% total duration. If you now add 50% from pistol trait, it’s 300% total or 200% bonus duration. Since you should always aim for 100% condi duration, the trait works like “+100% condi duration for pistol skills”.

I agree, there are many awesome skills with huge impact such as feedback, gravity well or time warp, aswell as countless other weapon and utility skills. But there are aswell “those skills” barely someone uses. Nullfield, utility phants, some phants in general etc etc blabla. In the end yes, there are skills with lack of impact. I totally agree with you about Chaos Storm – such an amazing animation and sound, huge CD and then … so little impact

Sadly we are not the only ones here – Ranger barely has any good utility skills, same goes for warrior and thief. They use all the same “few good skills”. Every profession has these problems and I have to say we are one of the professions with the most useful skills.

They should rework many old skills, in fact they should simply take a look at ALL of them once in a while … :/

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

Wahoo!

I like the suggestion and I think it wouldn’t be op to have unblockable bombs. Yet I’m a PvE only player so I’m not sure how this auto would kill peps in PvP / WvW with an unblockable mode :s … But as you said – there are other professions with long ranged unblockable attacks…

About bombs being the “last used kit”, idk but it barely leaves the skillbar in PvE, for condi and power builds. It’s one of the strongest kits there, if not THE strongest.

And pls no throwing bombs … we’ve got nades already >_>

Greez!
- Ziggy

denis.9487:

Xyonon.3987:

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

We could also build vita and act like everything is fine Q_Q

Which would help how exactly? Vitality has no interaction with illusions.

Tested it with a friend, Vita scales HP of phants, not sure about clones tough.

Unless they ninja added this the information here is not correct. Vitality has no bearing on clones or phantasms.

Ok I’ll test it again – I was preeeetty sure it worked, but don’t wanna spread wrong info here

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

We could also build vita and act like everything is fine Q_Q

Which would help how exactly? Vitality has no interaction with illusions.

Tested it with a friend, Vita scales HP of phants, not sure about clones tough.

DGraves.3720:

Utility > DPS.

I personally agree with that! Thanks for your opinion!

Wahoo! Heyhey!

There is only one very important thing you have to know: wich skill deals more damage than another one. This is your “Skill Priority List”.
You have to get a feeling about the CD’s and you have to have fast fingers, but all that is just a question of practicing.
So it’s the combination of knowledge AND practice that makes you a good engi.

I’ll open a thread here soon wich shows the exact correct full buffed numbers for each skill the engi has, for both power and condi. It will finally reduce the wrong list on meta battle to ashes :P But as for now, for condi I can give you the correct skill priority list you can work with:

Over 25k DpiSCT (Damage per invested Second Cast Time / Priority)
Incendiary Ammo
Napalm
Blowtorch
Fire Bomb
Shrapnel Grenade
Poison Grenade
Grenade Barrage

20-25k DpiSCT
Concussion Bomb

15-20k DpiSCT
Poison Gas Shell
Big Ol’ Bomb

10-15k DpiSCT
Poison Dart Volley
Static Shot (if there’s ONE Seeker next to Vale Guardian, it will bounce and double it’s damage done – so it would be between Grenade Barrage and Concussion Bomb! ;D)
Freeze Grenade
Grenade

Always try to use skills on top of that list. So for example if Poison Grenade is on CD, use Grenade Barrage, then “check” (in your mind!) if for example Shrapnel Nade should be rdy again, or Fire Bomb maybe? If yes, use them again, if not go for Concussion Bomb etc etc etc

If you got questions, go ahead!

Triggerbrand.8072:

I say practice your own rotations. I made up my own and hitting a consistent 23-25k dps. Focus more on Sharpnel Nades and Fire Bombs. I also take kinetic battery for double incendiary ammo. If your skills are on CD, switch to pistol and take advantage of that 50% ‘pistol’ condi duration, which effectively raises your condi duration to 150%

I never use grenade auto attack since 15%(x3) is way too low of a change to bleed than say pistol auto attack + bleed on crit trait.

While I agree with you to focus on Shrapnel Nades and Fire Bomb, I have to tell you, even with that 50% pistol duration (wich results into 200% condi duration, not 150%), grenade autos are still WAY better than pistol autos.

There is not only the 15% x3 chance for the shrapnel trait, it’s also a 3x chance for the sharpshooter trait.

Pistol auto hit deals full buffed average:
979 power and 2644 condi damage every 0.56s, wich equals 6470 DpS.

Grenade auto hit deals full buffed average:
2808 power and 3938 condi damage every 0.67s, wich equals 10118 DpS.

So always use nades as autohit, except if you are fighting the Red Guardian and he’s under ~33% HP.

Greez!
- Ziggy

damage wise it’s like this:
melee: rifle turret > eg > toolkit > ft
ranged: ft > rifle turret > toolkit > eg

So I’m not sure about the choice here Q_Q I played today with toolkit and it was ok, I’ve had 20k dps on sabby on melee but never really required the pull, nor the block tough. The block was good for ranged tough, but not ultra important.

I expect FT to be a good pick against the flame turrets since you can use skill 2 on range against them, so it’s really “the ranged” weapon. For melee I’ll probably stick to EG or simply rifle turret all day long.

We could also build vita and act like everything is fine Q_Q

Thank you for that input. I wasn’t thinking about the CC part of the rifle turret, that’s pretty good actually. I don’t think you need a stunbreak tough, aslong as the Mesmer pulls properly and you blind them after that.

So a +1 for the turret. What about FT tough? It’s a good amount more ranged damage but slightly less in melee. Probably depends on what your purpose will be in the end. I mean mes can go ranged too and barely loses any damage nowdays.

Greetings everyone! I need your help!

As some of you may know I’m working on a huge spreadsheet for the Engineer, for determining wich skills, kits and stats are most optimal for each situation (mainly focused on raid). Tough, right now I’ve encountered a rather special case I’m not sure to get the best solution for. This is about the power engi and the 3rd utility skill.

Apparently you’ll be dealing slightly more damage by using the Rifle Turret’s Surprise Shot on CD, instead of the Elixier Gun’s Acid Bomb.
“If this is true, why didn’t we find out earlier” you may think now. This is because of Quickness (wich is 100% uptime since HoT).
You see, Acid Bomb is a “movement skill” like Jump Shot, Rocket Boots or Rocket Charge. Those skills are unaffected by quickness, so you will need it’s full cast time duration to use it.
Even tough, Acid Bomb is still a great skill and Surprise Shot (without a cast time at all) isn’t affected by Quickness aswell, the main point WHY this matters tough is that other attacks are so fast that you could use 2 auto attacks + 1 Surprise Shot MORE THAN TWICE per 1 Acid Bomb.

Now what I want to ask you guys, do you think it’s worth to bring a pure damage skill, with 0 utility for only – let’s say 300 – increased dps over the EG? Let’s think about a fight with Sabeth, where you don’t really need anything but Acid Bomb on EG, but even then, Super Elixier may be handy from time to time…

This said, if you prefer EG for a small cost of DpS, would go for another 300 less dps and use the toolkit for a good block for some situations and an increased ranged dps for when the druid should go melee, aswell the ability to pull the one thug / arsonist that sometimes chases the druid?

And then there is also the FT wich has the same dps as the Tool Kit, but definitly more dps on ranged, but again different or rather no utility at all for this fight. Altough a 0 cast time blind may come in handy.

So, what do you think about that utlity / dps trade off? Is 300 really that much? How about 600 difference? Where is the border between losing too much dps for utility?
I would like to hear your thoughts to determine the final “best” kits for Sabby.

Greez!
- Ziggy

so do i – i use it in raids and open world, everywhere you don’t need condi cleanse actually, or where you can’t really blast the water field and where you can make great use of protection and the attacked water field.

PvE point of view: Kits in order from high to low usage:

Always

• Grenade Kit
• Mortar Kit
• Bomb Kit
• Elixier Gun
• Flame Thrower
• Tool Kit
• ~no Kit at all~
• Med Kit

Never

~ weekly bump! ~

Heya,

Well then I’ll try explain you everything then!

Dinosaurs.8674:

there is no way the optimal DPS setup for a power engineer includes bomb kit. The only power oriented skill on the whole kit is the autoattack…

Big Ol’ Bomb and the Fire Bomb both are a dps increase compared to the Bomb auto. BOB has a Damage-per-invested-Second-Cast-Time of 38.5k, FB has a DpiSCT of 21k, the autohit 18k.

Dinosaurs.8674:

…which is a better auto than everything else you have, but losing either flamethrower or elixer gun has got to be worse. Acid bomb is one of the highest damage skills engineer has and the cooldown is only 15s…

Acid bomb has a DipSCT of 31.5k and is indeed high, so you still pick it. The problem with it tough is that it’s not affected by quickness since it’s a movement skill. It’s less of a “godly” skill nowdays than it was before. If you don’t have any quickness, it’s still the strongest skill we have.

Dinosaurs.8674:

…and flameblast is very high dps on a 6s cooldown.

Not anymore. The problem with that skill is that you are forced to wait. You have to wait until the projectile passes trough the enemy and then push again to make it explode. And that whole process takes too long for 18.5k damage. Quickness is the problem here. You make it unaffected by quickness unless you are so far away that you could just shoot the kitten thing and make it explode on max range by itself, but even then the DpiSCT is only 23k. It’s low CD would force you to move back and forth all the time wich is in many scenarios not good, especially because you lose 10% crit chance over 240 range. If you explode it manualy in that time you’d attacked twice with a bomb auto, already done 36k damage. Quickness it the doombringer of this skill.

Dinosaurs.8674:

There are so many skills on power engi that are better than autoattack that it is used only sparingly, even without alacrity – you can say autoattacks are “more common” since the alacrity nerf but they are still extremely rare. Flame Blast, Electro Whirl, and Shrapnel Grenade are all better than autoattack and their cooldowns are 6s, 6s, 5s. Just with those three skills you can fill up most of the time. I guess if you have perma quickness and no alacrity then you might need to AA a lot, but as it stands AA usage is pretty minimal on engineer of any kind. So why would you bother with bomb kit? I can see taking it on gorseval if you need to CC a spirit but it’s likely a dps loss over egun or flamethrower.

With 100% quickness AND alacrity, you are forced to aa at least twice after each rotation except for the big bang when all your 25s CD’s are ready again. You can now either chose to use a 13.5k hammer auto hit, a 12.5k nade auto hit or a 18k bomb auto hit. I’ve done the math and you lose in the long term if you try to rotate without bomb kit. However if you are rather unskilled and not fast enough with using your skills, then you will auto attack less, because you do less in general.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Second of all, power engi does not deal anywhere near the ranged damage of condi engi. Sure you can hit grenade barrage and orbital strike, but you can’t hit acid bomb or electro whirl, rocket charge puts you in melee range, and flame blast requires you to wait way too long for the detonation to make it worth it. If you are taking bomb kit as you suggest then it is obviously just as bad. Condi engineer only loses fire bomb from its high DPS skills at range. If you go too far you will also lose blowtorch, but you also get pretty good damage from grenades, pistol skills, and mortar kit 2.

Power Engi has a stronger Orbital Strike, Grenade Barrage and a stronger Grenade auto hit, wich makes up for most of the damage. Then he has access to Thunderclap and is able to swap kits without a problem (where Condi struggles). He has access to skills like Throw Wrench and Launch Personal Battering Ram wich both deal as much damage as Shrapnel Grenade or Orbital Strike.

Condi Engi on the other hand only has Incendiary Ammo and a stronger Shrapnel Nade and slightly better Poison Nade aswell a weakened Blowtorch (600range still better than nade auto tough).

Math proves that power engi deals more ranged only dps than condi. It’s not like you couldn’t swap kits if you know what you’re up to against. Like for Sabby it’s no problem for a power engi to swap the EG for the toolkit, since Prybar is an insanely strong power skill aswell and Throw Wrench a great ranged attack. EG is not really required since it’s damage part is unaffected by Quickness.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Fourth, your calculation only shows that a power build will do 35% more damage against vale guardian than against gors and sab. It says nothing about doing that much more damage than a condi build. It is certainly possible that power engi does more damage overall than condi engi in that fight, but I really doubt it is by that much.

I’ll release everything once I’m completly done – you’ll be surprised!

Dinosaurs.8674:

Finally, saying that power engi has better utility than condi is ridiculous. Standard power build (nades, egun, FT) has no glue bomb or glue shot against seekers, only the less useful glob shot. Your bomb kit power build (which I’m assuming replaces egun) is a little better, but it still has less seeker control, and is worse against VG in general because 1.) condi is highly desirable in that fight, and 2.) ranged damage is highly desirable in that fight. Against gorseval you again don’t have glue shot which is bad against spirits, and sure you have more hard CC on hammer but it doesnt matter because slick shoes solos the breakbar anyway. Against sab I would say that power is better assuming you are not kiting napalm because it kills turrets and cannons faster, but as I said before I think that’s bad in general compared to ele or thief.

“Standard power build” never really existed. What the power engi can do what the condi can’t is swap skills according to the situation without a big or any dps loss.

Condi is everything but highly desirable. If there was no red add, you would kick any condi immediately! You only want 2 condis since 3 will deal less overall damage to VG, PS war’s might is the “3rd condi”. However, these two condis are still engis who will take care of most of the seeker problems since their damage sucks against VG anyway.

Power Seeker control can still be done with FT, Bomb Kit, Personal Battering Ram or Blast Gyro, last one even brings superior mobility on the table. Just pick 2 of em + Nades.

About ranged dps, well yea we know that one – espeically against VG with a 35% dmg boost. Btw – if you do not break VG for max dps, you want protection → scrapper → medic gyro. There’s no rev in the green fields.

Against Gorsy you don’t need any immobilizes at all. You still got chill and bomb immobilize for hard times, but in the end wars and rev can take care of everything on their own. You can help destroy orbs on the other hand tough …

Ahh Slick shoes! The one skill that reduces the Power Engi dps by like 5% and condi by 25%. Condis don’t like to have 2 kits, so don’t force them to. However if you won’t play with Slick Shoes, pick Condi over Power for sure! High armor Gorsy.

For Sabby it’s imo play what you want to play. I like the utility and burst damage more important, so I’ll play power. Also better for kiting and helps keeping up scholar with protection.

David.5974:

Can you post your raid power build?

Dinosaurs.8674:

David if you’re looking for a power build, here you go. This would be a typical build for raids. You can take no scope over pinpoint distribution if you won’t be getting fury from your squad. You will be crit capped assuming you are under the effects of fury, banner of precision, and spotter.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUhSsY7WwWLQ7FLjI13psKtC9XmlhJYtcLBAA-ThRBABXt/o8zMlg4pDAgHAAlq/8wFAgUADMGA-e

Even if I hate Superior Sigil of Air, it’s the best for Engi since he’ll be at 100% crit chance with full zerk already. If you are rushing I recommend bloodlust tough.

As for the build itself I’m running mainly this:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoClYh9ZBubB0ehlRki+LzywEsWulA47UWlWB-ThRBABXt/o8DPdAPcBAA4BAYmSQKV/hUADsMC-e

I swap sometimes to Toolkit, Personal Battering Ram, Blast Gyro, Slick Shoes and for the events in between sometiems Bulwark Gyro, Purge Gyro and / or Sneak Gyro.

Greez!
- Ziggy

Moky.3104:

chakra.2085:

until I have all commanders gear for toughness.

Just don’t do that.

agreed

Ananeos.4587:

Xyonon.3987:

Cuz it’s not about the condi part – it’s about the Mesmer. duh

So the reason I would want less condi, less dps and no hard stats increase on my team is because I would want to be in all pink instead?

No hard stats increase on my team? o.ô

Wahoo!

David.5974:

At VG every pug want condi engie(kicking seekers and condi at red guard) but power tank scrapper is pretty nice too. Your group loose dps yea(but at VG it’s not nessesary) but you bring god-moded tank and heavy cc with slick shoes(if your party/guild doesnt have enough cc for 5.phase)

Myself-I love more condi then power. Power build I use on VG as tank(condi work too but seekers etc and if you not trust your healer, this is better choice).

I’d never take a tank Engi. Sure, better than no tank, but Mes / Rev do the job much better with less damage loss for the PT (wich you said).

Regardless of power or condi, you have enough CC with the common Engi skills like air blast and big old bomb, power even offers more like space for blasty or simply thunderclap into rocket charge.

You onlyn need 2 condis, the 3rd Engi should go power for more damage. I agree that you don’t “need” the dps at VG, but hey, you didn’t “need” to be zerker in dungeons / fotm either, yet we always recommended to do so, for max efficienty / speed.

insanemaniac.2456:

quite frankly, do not bring slick shoes to vg. his break bar is on a 30 sec cd, while slick shoes is 45. its perfect for gorseval though.

While you have to think about 25% CDR from Mes, I agree that slick shoes are a Gorseval only thing.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Power engi isn’t bad for raids really in terms of DPS, but the standard condi build is just more useful in every fight.

Quite the opposite. Power Scrapper has much more utility than condi Engi ever could dream of. If you want to achieve this with a condi build, you’ll have to swap kits or weapons and lose so much damage that you’d be better as power in the first place.

Dinosaurs.8674:

VG: condi needed for red guardian; ranged DPS extremely valuable for lightning team; bomb kit 5 useful for seeker control

Condi is ONLY needed for Red Guardian. A power Scrapper offers higher ranged DpS, more mobility and can use FT and/or Bomb Kit aswell, yet in my expirience other skills like Blast Gyro come in handy aswell, especially for it’s high movement boost and heal for the other Scrappers.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Gorseval: Bomb Kit 5 super useful if you need to CC a spirit during split (and you probably do). Big ol bomb more helpful for soloing break bar than flamethrower 3.

Both, condi and power Engi use the same utilities in that fight: Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit and Slick Shoes. Difference is, power Scrapper has a viable high dps auto attack. The condi Engi cannot compete with that when he misses a Kit. The damage falls rapidly down and he’ll be forced to throw crappy 10k DpS grenade autos while the power Scrapper uses 18k bombs. Also: Shock Shield / Rocket Charge for evade damage, Thunderclap for CC, protection for … well it’s protection man!

Dinosaurs.8674:

Sabetha: Engineer’s only role here is kiting napalm, which is pretty bad with a hammer.

Kiting Napalm? You mean Sabbys ranged attacks??? That’s the Druid’s job, not the Engi’s. Also, the main reason to bring an Engi for Sabby is blind for rendering Thugs harmless. Sometimes the Thugs also spawn at the Druid and won’t join your party at Sabby / can’t be pulled cuz OOR → then you can / have to use the Mortar blind so the Druid is safe. Engi is also much safer than Ele as a backup cannon killer, or has (power) great burst for turrets. Engi also has some healing / protection output for allies to stay alive, especially for Necro minions.

There is MUCH MORE than just “kiting Napalm”, wich is not even his job.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Also I am extremely suspicious of Xyonon saying that power engineer does 30% more damage than condi against VG. I haven’t done DPS calc testing with hammer engi to back it up, but I know about how much damage condi engi does. And if power engi really deals 30% more than that, then engineer is the best DPS class in the game, lol.

Every mob in the Raids have 2597 armor. The only exceptions are the Red Guardian with 1’375’223 armor and Vale Guardian with low 1910 armor. This means (2597/1910=) that you’ll deal 35.97% more damage with POWER attacks than you normally would. So yea, I’m pretty certain that’s the case then.

The potential maximum a Power Scrapper can achieve against Vale Guardian, in an unrealistic, perfect, no mistake world, is 35k DpS. More realistic → 30k. That’s because of the low armor, nothing special. Even Mesmer can get to 20k there.

Dinosaurs.8674:

In my experience playing power engi in raids the DPS is about even for VG since he has low toughness and moves a lot. Condi is better DPS for gors and sab because they have higher toughness.

This was definitly the case in the old days, but since the rise of the Chrono and thus Quickness aswell the fall of Alacrity since last patch, auto attacks are much more common now and that’s where condi Engi stinks. Power Scrapper autos are 80% stronger than condi Engis. I don’t say that power >>>> condi, no way. I say that there are more things to consider than just movement and the old calculations.

VG → low armor, power wins.
Gorsy → Slick Shoes, power wins.
Sabby → expect them to be even, yet with 2 Mes (100% alacrity) I bet condi is slightly ahead of power.

Opinions?

Greez!
- Ziggy

You mustn’t perma swap weapons, since you need to keep your shield 5 on CD in order to be able to cast it 4 times per rotation. Same goes for the phantasm – you want to replace all your “1 life” phantasms before the new CS. And most imporant – while staying on shield you’ll be able to have your focus pull ready when you need it, not when you “are on focus by coincidence”. This has a major impact against Sabetha where you need to pull the thugs and arsonists the moment they want to attack / kick. You can also time this with the CD of Tides of Time, wich you can’t if you swap all the time.

It’s not a playstyle question – it’s a skill level question. Try improving by not using it and focus on more important things, on your envoirment and how to use your offhand skills with utmost efficiency and with the best outcome / passive dps gain.

Greez!

They could just reduce the CD of our skills a bit rather than give us another must have trait or something … I’m happy about the alacrity nerf but not about our CD increase.

Cuz it’s not about the condi part – it’s about the Mesmer. duh

If you call crappy boon duration uptime and messy rotations fine, then yes, keep it. :P Seriously tough, the sigil is really just suboptimal. I’ve got a sword with it myself but I’d not recommend use it unless for the rare situation when you have NO rev at all. It’s not a good sigil for a Mes in PvE raid envoirment.

Engi has the highest skillcap of all professions in the game and your dps heavily depends on that. However it’s one of the best professions in the game due to massive utility combined with still high damage.

Druid on the other hand is 100% a buffer / healer and can barely be played as dps anymore. The damage is so low, a dps Mes would outdamage you :’D

insanemaniac.2456:

when you put on full viper, you get enough condi duration to max it out without dedicating your runes to it. so you then pick berserker runes simply because they offer the most damage of all the condi rune sets.

this

Truth is they are pretty even, but engis are often wanted as condi for the red add at VG and pugs normally don’t know anything else about engi. So just try to get 2 exotic sets, one power and one condi. At least you should aim for it

Hey,

Better sell it again, it’s not optimal to have. It won’t work for the full duration of all your skills and it will force you to swap weapons, rendering you worthless if you NEED an offhand ready.

Sry to tell you that, invest in runes and food instead.

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

Heya,

I wonder how many of you REALLY own and play a condi Mes once in a while. Also the statement “other condi professions deal more damage” is just … DUH OFC THEY DO!!! They also do if you are power, still, they DO NOT provide alacrity nor quickness, that’s still our job, also as condi! ~.~ dah…

btt: Condi Mes very viable and I can give you a build for it if you want me to. The only downside compared to power is that you lack alacrity, wich you trade for damage ofc and that you have less general buff uptime due not having shatter CDR → have to wait for CS longer.

There are places where condi is great, for example high lv fotm bosses, but there is also the opposite, like raids or fighting trash mobs. The condi Mes suffers from the same issue every condi profession suffers aswell: No flexibility – you are unable to change traits or weapons, wich makes you weaker overall, especially as a Mesmer. Like – you’d have problems to grant your party a decent reflection uptime, but you can use mimic + feedback + CS then, tough ;3

Questions?

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

True that! So maybe give it block and unblockable but no final pulse?

EMP, aoe 3s daze uhh

Maybe use “the new trait” gain 1% damage per 20% fuel? Or smthing like that … give the scrapper a trait that benefits from having full fuel, but not too strong so you would lose massive damage using gyros.

You could also modify other traits like “Rapid Regeneration” to have a small HP boost at full fuel, or the opposite – at low fuel. Maybe a trait that works with RR → gain super speed for 1s while under 20% fuel, 1s CD.

You’ll still have 86% crit chance in a party due to spotter, banner and fury. So worry not about your crit ratio.

The thing is: Condition duration is a flat damage increase in . From 0 to 50% condition duration makes you 50% stronger. From 50% to 100% makes you another 25% stronger. That’s insane compared to the damage you’d gain from additional raw stats (condi dmg).

Greez!

Simonoly.4352:

All it needed to do was to not apply evade/invulnerable for the wells duration. It should have been an applied buff at the end of the well so that there was still the chance of a strong AoE party buff but with an easy to understand counter.

Maybe we can get that group unblockable attack buff back from the HoT BWE? I actually thought that was pretty cool.

It once was invuln in the end of the buff, but that was a terrible design since you need aegis / blur / invuln / evade on demand, not “in a few sec”.

I suggest to change the well so it’s not aegis that makes you block, rather the well itself. While standing inside that well you block, no matter how many hits. Aegis is too unreliable for this kind of skill to work properly.

It would also be nice to have 3s unblockable in the end of the well rather than enduracne noone really notices …

greez!

Wahoo!!

Both, Condi and Power, have their usage in raids.

Vale Guardian
Condi is great for the red add at Vale Guardian, but if you already have 2 condi professions at VG, go power and you’ll deal around 30% more damage to VG himself.

Gorseval
For Gorseval condi is great if you have your 3 kits or if you have to slow an add on your own for a long time. If you have slick shoes and you have the first add to be taken care of, power is the way to go, since condi engi loses a ton of damage if he misses a kit due no viable auto attack.

Sabetha
As for Sabby it doesn’t really matter what you do – do what you like more. I’m not completly done with my tests yet, but what I know is that the dps greatly depends on your Mesmer. The Mesmer should provide perma quickness, no question. Then there is the possibility and squad team that you’ll either have 50%~ or 100% alacrity uptime. If you have 50%, power is most likely stronger, if you have 100% condi probably will be.

A good main engi should always carry both setups with him. Short said – condi for high armor and ideally max dps and power for low armor, damage and utility.

Greez!
- Ziggy

Yea that’s what I meant by “just an idea”. You wouldn’t be able to explode them on your own grrr… But then – maybe you don’t want to anymore. It’s a different playstyle. You could change final salvo to a trait with ICD that dazes, grants stability and super speed on summon (10s ICD~). Something like that.