Guild Wars 2

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Yasha.5963:

Its too short now.

how short?
wave respawn 10 s or shorter?

shorter respawn time may be more beneficial.

more action, less waiting to respawn.

The match duration is now too short.

Its too short now.

I love the new map voting system! No more skyhammer, weeeee!

I have been playing unranked NA and the wait times have been extremely low (less than a minute, sometimes almost instant) and then skill level of team mates has been mixed, but generally ok.

It is much better than hotjoin, and the new system for unranked seems excellent.

Don’t you just need to be level 2?

uwo.8197:

I just came to forums to say almost the same thing. It’s not actually the UI, which is great, but the gameplay that has improved. I’ve been able to play 5 or 6 games straight, most of them reasonably close with players only leaving once. People worked together and every game was fun.

I have nothing against smack talk, but it was interesting noting that all of the communication in these games was either strategy ( a little) or people saying gl;hf and good game. I can only pray it stays the same!

Thanks anet folks,
Very casual Uwo.

Yes, I have had pretty much the same experience. In terms of unranked, there have been a few weird games where one team got crushed, but overall its just game after game of 5vs5, everyone starting at the same time, and no one leaving/team swapping. Also like you, I have noticed very little abusive/negative talk in game.

I play unranked queue now at times when I would have played hotjoin in the past, and it is much more enjoyable. Another positive is that I have only had to play skyhammer once in over 20 games now thanks to the voting system.

I see no reason to play hotjoin now except to practice new builds or just goof around (before that’s where I went for casual pvp).

Laserbolt.6731:

You paid $60 bucks and you got up to two YEARS of the game so far, and there is no subscription fee.

Yet some of you have the entitlement attitude to complain about the PvP upgrade.

For which you have paid exactly ZERO dollars.

Just keep that in mind. You’ll feel better.

Not only is it essentially free, it is pretty much the only mmo (apart from GW1) where you can have skill-based (as opposed to gear-based) pvp, it has overall the best pvp systems/combat of any mmo, and it is not pay to win at all (at least in spvp). Not to mention that the recent pvp update actually seems great….

I wish more companies would use the same business model, its so good for the players.

Abaddon.2105:

I agree. I enjoy most of these changes.

When I see all the yelling and complaining people it proves one thing:

THEY DON’T READ!

It have been written that THIS IS A TESTING AND POLISHING PERIOD and they are going to tweak the UI to work the best.

STOP COMPLAINING PEOPLE AND PROVIDE CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK.

For me everything works fine, but it could be better if we had the ability to swap builds to the pre-made saved ones, depending on which map we will encounter.

Also, these popping messages are too large. It covers a lot of space even on 1080p.

Another thing is that there could be a message saying, “if you are ready, click the ready button to start the game right away” – because it seems like many people doesn’t know it.

Additionally, please let us assign a hotkey or so, that after pressing B during the match, we could see statistics right away, instead of reward tracks. It’s annoying to swap the tabs each time. Statistics are more important to me and I believe to most of players on spvp.

Also the current players list that pops after pressing B is hardly readable. List of players have now less padding/margins and all of it makes it really bad.

Good feedback.

I have also noticed that the statistics look better – is there more detail or is it just the change in appearance?

Its only just come out, so I don’t want to jump the gun, but my first impressions are that the new UI/system is fantastic.

1) It looks great, very professional and easy to understand
2) Voting on maps is awesome.
3) The accept button and accept screen makes a lot of sense- reminds me somewhat of Smite
4) The “unranked” mode seems to essentially be a better form of hotjoin. Instead of having to go through game after game of unbalanced numbers and fight against spectator abusers you can now have a casual 5vs5.
5) The addition of a new game mode- totally amazing, ty.
6) I think there have been some other changes under the hood that I am not totally sure about, but I heard that you can’t stack DS on necro before the match starts now, things like that are a huge plus.

Overall it just “feels” so much better and so right. I am sure there is room for tweaks, but that was my first impression when I played today.

runeblade.7514:

Yasha.5963:

runeblade.7514:

Yasha.5963:

First I want to say that I love the new UI, it is amazing, great job!

Second, I like that you can’t just hit play now to “surf” to other games. However, I used it once today and noticed that it put me in a game with no other players. It should put you into games that are already started, prioritizing ones that have an uneven number of players in game (ignoring spectators). I don’t understand why the system does not work like that, it has been like this seemingly for ever.

Anyway, enough of the negatives, love all the UI changes, it looks hot and works well.

I see that you like manually looking for rooms. That’s great.

But I don’t see any reason why you hate the “play now.”

I didn’t say I “hate” anything. Did you read this bit:

“However, I used it once today and noticed that it put me in a game with no other players. It should put you into games that are already started, prioritizing ones that have an uneven number of players in game (ignoring spectators). I don’t understand why the system does not work like that, it has been like this seemingly for ever.”

That is my main gripe with “play now” functionality. I would actually use it if I knew that it would prioritize sending me to a 4vs5 (evening out the game), then 3vs4 etc.

No players around? Then press the button again until you see a 4v5.

If you don’t like that solution, you can always manually look for rooms. I don’t see how that justify the removal of the automatic button.

Don’t you think it would be better if you pressed the button and it took you to a 4vs5 instead of what appears to be some random match, including ones with no players?

runeblade.7514:

Yasha.5963:

First I want to say that I love the new UI, it is amazing, great job!

Second, I like that you can’t just hit play now to “surf” to other games. However, I used it once today and noticed that it put me in a game with no other players. It should put you into games that are already started, prioritizing ones that have an uneven number of players in game (ignoring spectators). I don’t understand why the system does not work like that, it has been like this seemingly for ever.

Anyway, enough of the negatives, love all the UI changes, it looks hot and works well.

I see that you like manually looking for rooms. That’s great.

But I don’t see any reason why you hate the “play now.”

I didn’t say I “hate” anything. Did you read this bit:

“However, I used it once today and noticed that it put me in a game with no other players. It should put you into games that are already started, prioritizing ones that have an uneven number of players in game (ignoring spectators). I don’t understand why the system does not work like that, it has been like this seemingly for ever.”

That is my main gripe with “play now” functionality. I would actually use it if I knew that it would prioritize sending me to a 4vs5 (evening out the game), then 3vs4 etc.

The pug vs premade issue is a good question, but lets give it some time to see how that pans out.

I don’t think waiting in the mists or doing something else for a few minutes while waiting for a queue to pop is a big deal, and the benefits of the new system far outweighs the inconvenience imo.

First I want to say that I love the new UI, it is amazing, great job!

Second, I like that you can’t just hit play now to “surf” to other games. However, I used it once today and noticed that it put me in a game with no other players. It should put you into games that are already started, prioritizing ones that have an uneven number of players in game (ignoring spectators). I don’t understand why the system does not work like that, it has been like this seemingly for ever.

Anyway, enough of the negatives, love all the UI changes, it looks hot and works well.

I played five or six unranked this morning, most of the games were really unbalanced (either my team or the other team won easily), it looked like a lot of people who didn’t know how to play were in the games.

I played two courtyard, one was about 50-500 and the other 500-50. The main reason seemed to be one team having more people that knew how to play a bit, and the other with people just walking straight into the enemy zerg one-by-one on respawn.

I still haven’t seen anyone explain how a d/p thief can beat an engi (any of several different builds). As far as I can see there is just no way to “outplay” them. Everyone I ask says to just run away.

You got me hopeful for a minute!

I think the new UI and the accept prompt before a match starts, and the voting on the map are totally amazing. One of the best things ANET have done.

Rylen.2147:

I find it so hard to understand how people make an in depth post and yet say “Rogues” instead of Thief. Questions the reliability of the post if they don’t even know that the professions are.

I agree.

Rothem.8174:

Much better than that other thread

And yet, that other thread, written by what appears to be a complete noob, has 74 responses and this one only 13.

Elitist.8701:

As long as they dont buff ele or engi any further,

Yeah it would seem stronger if ele and engi weren’t in the game, I think d/p has a reasonable chance against most other classes, or can at least put up some resistance.

But I just mainly wanted my favourite class buffed so I could play it more in tourney.

So D/p thief is probably my favourite build/class to play, it has a lot of utility as well as being somewhat “twitchy” and at the same time quite strategic to play.

Since its so fun just wondered if you could please make it stronger so I can pawn more easily. TY.

This game has the single best multiplayer component of any game I have ever played. My analysis is based on general PvP principles which apply to MMO’s and FPS games etc. so it’s not specifics I’m getting into but rather general ideas.

1 – Downed mode. An amazing tactical addition to pvp that enhances team play and leads to some of the most exciting and game-turning crutch plays I have ever experienced. When someone is downed, do I revive, go for the stomp, cleave? Do I have a utility/skill that can secure a downstate play? The split second decisions made during some downstate plays are some of the most memorable and heart-pounding moments in my gaming life.

2 – If I had a dollar for every stun ability and counter in this game… The tactical depth of how stuns/disables and counters work in GW2 is ingenious. Whether its saving your invun for a Mesmer disable into shatter combo or setting up team burst through baiting cds so you can apply the hard disable/stun/immobilize, GW2 keeps you on your toes.

3 – Mesmers/Rogues – Some builds for these classes are the hardest to master in PvP, but incredibly satisfying when you get the hang of them. They are classic high risk/high reward classes- generally one mistake will get you killed or forced to retreat at best, but they have the potential for excellent burst and utility. Some thief builds in particular have an amazing tool kit and an extremely “hands on” playstyle, that for me personally is the most fun way to play even though you are always living on a razors edge.

4 – It is just awesome. In general when I play a PvP game, MMO or FPS, I like there to be a skill component to the game. There is a vast skill element in GW2. MMO’s in general are all about getting into groups and stacking on some poor individual. In GW2, this is hardly an issue unless you rotate poorly. Even if some extremely skilled person manages to kill one of the up to 5 people ganging up on him, it is extremely difficult to beat a group – although most extremely skilled individuals would not put themselves into a 5vs1 fight.

In addition, the combat system is amazing. Not only are there a variety of gap closers and openers, there are also “little things” like players hobbling when crippled, saying “I’m burning” when on fire, the largely clear skill animations that get you watching – and listening – for tells instead of looking at cast bars. With a few strange exceptions –like asura – the game appears to have been built ground up to facilitate deep and exciting pvp combat.

These features make the PvP feel incredibly fulfilling and robust, as I’m being constantly forced to make decisions that can make or break a play. Or when I pull off a truly skilful play (admittedly rarely), I have a little grin on my face knowing that the other player, if they are worth the salt, is probably thinking how they could have thwarted me.

It’s truly amazing, and I often think the devs that made this must be so proud.

Actually, there is one good thing about having skyhammer in solo queue- it makes me stop playing. If it wasn’t in the rotation I would probably just play all day.

Its better than it was, but ridiculous that this is still in solo queue.

I remember when you could kill an engineer if you had enough stability (and or condition removal), or how engis could just seeming be uncatchable but do little damage.

I don’t know if its been a gradual change, or its because of nerfs to other classes, but engis currently feel to me like d/d ele did before they got nerfed heavily, and how warriors felt after they got buffed, or how necros suddenly became insanely powerful for a while.

NonToxic.9185:

Today, I tried to bring my friend into the PvP world (we had done our dungeon runs for the day, our server is in a WvW mismatch, no world bosses were up, etc). I knew hotjoin would be a rough deal, but I also know that as somebody who has played a bunch of PvP, this friend of mine (not so hot at the PvP, no practice) would get demolished in an arena setting.

I thought: “Ok, we’ll do a few rounds of hotjoin, they will learn that getting blasted with conditions sucks and they should dodge stuff, then they can fix up their build a bit and-”

AS IF. 5 games in a row of 3v5 spectator stacking abuse horsecrap. The only thing they learned is that, to survive as 3 for more than a few seconds, you have to zerg! That’s what the learning and practice mode has become: 3-6 players abusing to win, and everybody else learning PvP is JUNK.

Consider for a moment: the next friend of mine that shows any interest in PvP, I will be taking straight into arenas to learn. Lesson 1 will be: “Hotjoin is for cheaters, never play it”.

Yeah, this is a big issue. I mean it gets me playing arena more, but the hotjoin game itself has the potential to be a lot of fun.

I don’t think the devs have to reinvent the wheel, its a great game and system, its just that spectate mode “cheating” is out of control.

I think just two changes, which I think are simple, would go a long way towards making hotjoin amazing again.

1) Don’t let players move freely from spectate to an active game. If a player joins as spectator or leaves a game to spectate, they should stay there until the next game starts.

2) At the start of a game randomly assign players to teams. Even if players can swap later in the game it would be ok, but a game needs to start with all players in game assigned to a team, not waiting in spectate to join the team of their choice.

There are other things that could be done to enhance hotjoin’s fun factor, but those two are important for fixing the current glaring problem with hotjoin.

I must admit it is much better now than when first unleashed on the poor spvp community. I still don’t like that the map has instant kill mechanics that favour builds that can just stack for survivability and cc, but at least its not a complete disaster any more.

xDudisx.5914:

Bring the 8v8 back to hotjoins. Problem solved. A 7v8 is easier to win than a 4v5. No need to make all servers 8v8 but we need some.

I think having the option of both 5v5 and 8v8 is good, as long as both are easy to find (at launch the 5v5 hotjoin servers were hidden at the bottom of the server list).

However, that is probably not going to solve the problem. The main issue is not 4v5 games (although addressing that would also be positive), but players swapping teams willy-nilly to secure a victory and stacking teams at the beginning of a match.

There are of course several factors working together that diminish the fun of hotjoin, but the sore-thumb, the elephant in the room, is the misuse of spectate mode to manipulate games by forcing auto balance.

Zaxares.5419:

I’ve had some people say rude things in /say before (I’m assuming that “gf” doesn’t mean “good fun”), but no whispers before. Then again, I only play Hotjoin and I don’t take things seriously. If somebody’s talking trash, I just let them babble on and focus on playing. After all, if they’re typing, they’re not killing or capping. :P

gf means good fight – I was also initially confused.

Becka Williams.4978:

I think people want to win because the points are better. I don’t know why people quit when they ab. I LOVE autobalance, because it means I can have fun, and not worry about winning. As for other people, forcing them to play on the losing team isn’t going to make them play. They just won’t join.

Well, the points mean little to me, I just enjoy a good fairly even game- especially if I win!

Anyway, autobalance in itself is great, one of the best innovations ArenaNet bought to pvp. The problem is not with autobalance, but with players now being able to manually balance the game to their liking by using spectate mode.

If a player is getting destroyed in hotjoin its fair enough if they rage quit or whatever, but its not fair if they go to spectate and then rejoin the wining team. That just makes no sense, and indeed it is not the intended use of spectate mode.

I seriously cannot understand why nothing has been done to stop people using spectate in such a way, it is such an obvious flaw in the system, and I cannot imagine that something like this would have been allowed through from beta into launch. Its like the devs just do not care at all about it anymore. Totally weird.

I know the devs have commented before that they have a long list of things to do, but a fundamental system is broken and every player new and old who goes to hotjoin (usually the first experience of spvp right?) has to deal with this really strange and broken game set up. And its not like I am criticizing something that the devs think is working really well (like skyhammer), this is something that a dev has said on the forum months ago is not working as intended.

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

So, ultimately, you are being zerged in hotjoin. But you can’t see the obvious problem described ten times in this thread? Then I will ask my original question once more:

What the hell are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Protect the current state of hotjoin?

Why don’t you try and find the most fundamental problem that exists in hotjoin right now, and present us with YOUR solution to the problem (if you manage to find it all by yourself)..
And if you don’t, refrain from protecting the problem that you fail to see. And absorb our time and effort.

Of course, I already gave my solution. I guess you must’ve missed it. Let me restate it: change the point gap between winning and losing to like 100 points. Then you’ll stop seeing people avoid the losing team. Clear enough?

Actually, I don’t understand what you mean, could you elaborate?

Edit: Nevermind, I read your previous post again. You are just focused on the reward side of things. I am not sure if that will change the situation since a lot of players force autoswap just because they don’t like getting beaten.

I am not against trying such a solution to see if it works, but it would also have side-effects like further reducing the incentive to compete. The most logical and thorough way to stop players from forcing autobalance to manipulate games is just to not let them “cheat” like that, while also having a reasonable incentive to win in a fair and balanced match- or as close to that ideal as possible.

I actually don’t understand why you are so against removing the ability to let players force autobalanceto manipulate games- something which even a dev on this forum has said is not the intended use of spectate, and was not part of the game until spectate was added.

Never had someone actually threaten to kill me, but getting insulting tells from players in spvp happens to me fairly regularly. Also, the same thing happens with the blocking. Its really weird.

There definitely seems to be a lot of strange and maladjusted people playing spvp.

Aberrant.6749:

Yasha.5963:

Zaxares.5419:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Wasn’t the OP complaining about 5v4 in Hotjoin though?

Becka has a good point; preventing players from joining the winning team will not fix the core issue, which is to encourage players to join/stay on the losing team. Otherwise you’ll just get ragequitters, and then what are you going to do? You either need to allow Autobalance (which puts us back at square one), or one team has to play understrength and basically get stomped the rest of the match because nobody is willing to join the losing team. (And that’s if you don’t simply get a cascading effect where every single member of the losing team quits. I see this alllll the time in online competitive shooters.)

If you kick one member of the winning team back to Spectate, you’re guaranteed to kitten off that unlucky player too, because now they lose out on their chance for rewards/playtime.

The OP is saying that allowing players to force autobalance through spectate and freely choose teams has ruined hotjoin. The 5v4 situation is partly due to this, but is not the main issue.

In the past, before spectate and the forced autobalance meta, if a game went 4v5 there was a reasonable chance that it would become 5v5 within the game or by the next game. Now in nearly every game we have to put up with people manipulating matches by forcing auto balance, as well as pre-game stacking.

If people quit because they have to go do something else or just out of frustration that is totally cool. That is exactly what autobalance is designed to fix. What is not cool is when players move to spectate, force the game to auto balance and then join the winning team. When that happens in nearly every game it is just terrible.

The 5v4 situation is what causes this to happen in the first place. They wouldn’t even have the option to auto->swap if the game wasn’t imbalanced. It’s not just the person who does the swapping rubbish that’s at fault. It’s the people who mash on the join button to set up the 5v4 in the first place, the person doing the swapping, and a-net for rewarding this behavior. It’s all part of the same problem (bad hotjoin behavior being rewarded). There are few players who even out the 5v4 otherwise we would still be seeing them become 5v5’s, but a lot of games never reach that point even without some one doing the spectate->swap at any point in time.

I agree that uneven sides encourage people to force autobalance, but by allowing players to manipulate the game like that it creates a bigger problem. Like you say there is no disincentive for such behaviour, and in fact it is beneficial (at least in terms of rewards and the fun factor of not being rolf-stomped).

This kind of thing just was not an issue before the ability to use spectate to force auto balance was introduced. Now it is the obvious overriding reality of hotjoin. There have been some great suggestions about how to improve the situation; I think just limiting the ability to freely swap teams through spectate would be a good start.

You mention another good point about new players not coming into a game to make a 5v4 a 5v5. This is also an important issue, but one that has been around since launch. The play now button should send people straight into such games. Also, the server numbers are not always accurate, so a game could look full on the server select screen but actually have less than a 5v5 playing. However, that is something that can be looked at after fixing the abuse of spectate to force autobalance.

Zaxares.5419:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Wasn’t the OP complaining about 5v4 in Hotjoin though?

Becka has a good point; preventing players from joining the winning team will not fix the core issue, which is to encourage players to join/stay on the losing team. Otherwise you’ll just get ragequitters, and then what are you going to do? You either need to allow Autobalance (which puts us back at square one), or one team has to play understrength and basically get stomped the rest of the match because nobody is willing to join the losing team. (And that’s if you don’t simply get a cascading effect where every single member of the losing team quits. I see this alllll the time in online competitive shooters.)

If you kick one member of the winning team back to Spectate, you’re guaranteed to kitten off that unlucky player too, because now they lose out on their chance for rewards/playtime.

The OP is saying that allowing players to force autobalance through spectate and freely choose teams has ruined hotjoin. The 5v4 situation is partly due to this, but is not the main issue.

In the past, before spectate and the forced autobalance meta, if a game went 4v5 there was a reasonable chance that it would become 5v5 within the game or by the next game. Now in nearly every game we have to put up with people manipulating matches by forcing auto balance, as well as pre-game stacking.

If people quit because they have to go do something else or just out of frustration that is totally cool. That is exactly what autobalance is designed to fix. What is not cool is when players move to spectate, force the game to auto balance and then join the winning team. When that happens in nearly every game it is just terrible.

uberkingkong.8041:

You have to realize, that there was a time/ original idea, was that there was 2 tournaments, and people would not even consider about doing those tournaments until they got somewhat good. Hotjoin community was thriving.

Now, the developers changed the original idea to making solo que the norm, and hotjoin just some random place to do stupid stuff.

Sometimes you wonder why people complain about people in solo que and team que not knowing what they are doing… Because the developers encouraged players to solo que and team que over hotjoins.

I remember playing over 500 games of hotjoin and having fun at the same time before even considering tournament play, now it’s go right into solo que and team que and get your feet wet and take the rage from some people of them getting mad you are terrible.

Yes, this is a good point. Like you, I played many hotjoin before doing a tourney.

However, I don’t think the devs have tried to change the basic idea that hotjoin is for practice and tourney is for more serious competition. Indeed, the move toward 5v5 in hotjoin was to help people better understand how to play tourneys properly.

That said, it does kind of seems like ANET is trying to kill off hotjoin by leaving it in the current broken state, I am not sure if that is their actual intent?

To any devs- do you actually just want to get rid of hotjoin? Are you leaving it in this really bad state because you want it to self implode? Where do you see it in the scheme of spvp? Is it still designed (in your mind) as somewhere where players can have casual competitive games, or is it just someplace that doesn’t matter?

Great video, thanks for sharing.

Zaxares.5419:

^ Just thought I’d point out that I actually created a custom filter that will show me any servers that are 8v8. Unfortunately, most nights all such servers are completely empty.

That is how it used to be for 5vs5 games when 8v8 games were listed a the top of the list. I personally like 5vs5 better, but the main problem now is players being able to force autobalance and stack teams.

Some people have suggested that team swapping is motivated by rewards. Personally I only play because the game is fun (when it works), my bags are always full these days and I just delete new rewards so I can keep playing.

I think just preventing players from being able to spectate and then join the game again and auto assigning players randomly at the start of a game would go a long way to fixing the problem, but it would be good to see any efforts to fix this.

Sube Dai.8496:

I really don’t get this thread. People seem to think that hotjoin should be like spvp. Well, that’s what spvp is for…hotjoin is for testing builds…wtf is the problem?

OK, I will try and help you understand.

I first played GW2 at launch and nearly every day for a year after, almost exclusively spvp. I got bored with the game mode and so took a break, but I always come back from time to time because the combat is still so amazing.

Hotjoin was completely different back then. Every game was full and often games went to the wire. It was fun to just rock into hotjoin and whittle the hours away, it was like the ultimate casual pvp game, an amazing take on battleground systems like in WoW and Rift with all the bad stuff (gear/level inequality etc.) taken out. It was 24/7 pvp fun times.

The main thing people asked for in terms of hotjoin structure was could we please have a 5v5 tab and an 8vs8 tab so we could easily choose which to play (for months I didn’t even know 5v5 hotjoin existed because the 5v5 servers were located at the bottom of the server list and even when I found them they were often poorly populated).

Anyway, ANET made some changes- some of which were really good, like giving pvpers some real rewards that they could take with them over to pve. In theory the spectate mode was also good. But it had the unexpected side-effect of totally destroying hotjoin.

These days it is hard to find a stable server with consistent players. Nearly every game has players quitting or forcing auto balance to join the winning side. Players wait to observe which team the better players are on and then join that one, effectively stacking stronger players against a team of weaker players. Games will often limp along at 2vs3, with a full 5vs5 game becoming increasingly rare.

In short hotjoin used to be a fun game, but now because of the unintended side effects of spectate and being able to force autobalance etc, it has become frustrating and often just not fun. It feels broken, whereas in the past it felt amazing. Maybe it was too much fun in the past and was actually detracting from solo and team queue?

At any rate that is why I am kittened off. A really fun part of the game has been destroyed. I also agree with others above who say that a broken hotjoin is a bad image for the game and is actually damaging for GW2 overall.

Congrats if you were able to read all that, personally I think my first post said it all in a tenth of the wording, but maybe some background helps.

kitten . After playing the now broken hotjoin I gave in and queued for solo queue. What popped skykitteninghammer. kitten it.

Hotjoin has been totally destroyed by allowing players to change teams at will. I always thought hotjoin was a good idea for some fun casual spvp or to test builds and such, but now it is just terrible.

People keep saying “it’s just hotjoin” as if that is a good reason to have a broken system. It seems almost crazy that this situation has been allowed to continue to worsen. Is the aim just to kill hotjoin?

Every time I start playing again this map kittenes me off.

Why did you drop Capricorn, which was kind of fun, for this? In solo queue a skyhammer pop is the end of fun for the day, in hotjoin I keep having to swap servers whenever it comes up. So annoying.

I am back to just quitting the game when skyhammer pops in solo queue, can’t stand it anymore.

Kurse.1540:

This topic skyrocketted since I posted it so I’ll just clarify my first statement real quick =)
I play as a s/d thief and I’m not quite a beginner anymore (not a pvp hero neither but still). My point is, if I want to engage a longbow ranger, even if i have steal, infiltrator’s strike and infiltrator’s signet as gap breakers, he will still have time to unload his whole rapid fire on me before I even get to him.
-Dodge it! -1 rapid fire is 2 dodges to dodge. After which he still has 1)Point blank shot 2)barrage 3) 2 pet CC’s 4) Etangle (That’s only if he camps longbow)

So no matter how many evades I have, he has more lame skills to unload on me. Someone said he had to sacrifice all his utilities to burst properly? I did some testing, 1 rapid fire with no buffs can hit up to 10k, and that’s not counting pet hits/air+fire sigil procs. Having burst is fine. Having ranged is fine. But having a 1500 range burst with 8 seconds cd is just ridiculous.

Saying that they have no survivability would be a lie as well: 2 invulns, gs block + kb, stun/daze… That’s more than most burst classes, and that’s not counting they can just stay at ranged and kill you safely while they’re out of reach for your own attacks.

I’ve done some testing on several classes, and there’s no way I can find a counter to them. In 90% of the cases they’ll just burst you before you even are able to attack them, and the 10% left is when you don’t have any dodges left because you double dodged thier rapid fire.

In a team fight it’s even worse: they just arrive randomly, burst anyone in 2 seconds and before you notice they’re there you’re dead already.

What I wanted to point out with this thread is that rapi fire is stupidly op, the range is too high, the damage is too high and the cd is too low.

You must be a complete n oob. I know that might hurt, but it is the only explanation I can think of for your opinion.

Longbow burst ranger is definitely not the most powerful class/build in the game, and not even the strongest ranger build. Once you get better at s/d thief you should be able to beat a lot of any type of ranger 1vs1, although there will likely always be someone better than you.

Why? Why does it have to pop skyhammer multiple times in a row?

I haven’t played d/p since the patch, am quite concerned about the heavy nerf to black powder though. How are you guys finding it?

tanztante.6532:

scroll a few hundred pages back and look at the posts about " remove temple, it sucks, if you don’t remove temple, i’m quitting the game, we are 99% that hate temple.

No. Skyhammer has been criticized and players have asked to take it out of tourney play from the start. Temple has never received anything like this amount of hate, and is generally considered a good map. Don’t try and write this off as some kind of community knee-jerk reaction that happens all the time.

This is not the only epic skyhammer thread, there have been many since its release, with several community polls clearly showing that most people want it gone. Do a poll on Temple and see what happens.

In fact I did do a poll on some other maps (forget which ones now) because some people said “only people who are angry vote in polls, that’s why the skyhammer polls showed so many people want it out”. However, when polled on other maps people voted overwhelmingly for keeping them.

Skyhammer sucks. There are several well thought out and detailed posts as to exactly why this is a terrible map, and how it is almost the antithesis of everything players had been asking for in pvp.

I saw a turret placed floating in the air above the point in temple, is that a new buff?

Noah.9654:

Shockwave.1230:

ANet has said the majority of people like sky hammer. The forums just flame it.

This. Most people I talk to in-game actually like Sky Hammer (or at least don’t hate it as much). Its always fun to fight for control of the hammer and then smite enemies XD

Nearly every time I play the map a few people complain about it. It is annoying to have to change servers when it pops in hotjoin, and not be able to do solo queue because of skyhammer.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Yasha.5963:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but hotjoin
less experienced 4 vs 5 experienced

not fun
there are people here who still thinks its fun to be on the team with 5 experienced stomping the team of 4 who are less experienced.

looks at Yasha

I want randomized teams and a system that prevents players from using spectate to force auto balance so that the current exploiting by players bent on cheating to win like yourself can’t occur.

come on, Yasha, just admit it, you simply enjoy being on the team of 5 steam rolling the other team of 4.

everything you have proposed does nothing to solve the 5 vs 4 issue in hotjoin.

and please take back your words, i am bent on making the match balanced.

everytime when i enter spectator mode to force auto balance so that the losing team can get one more player, i join back the losing team. the points are often 200+ away and in the end, the losing team still loses, but at least the teams may be 5 vs 5 in the end, and the scores difference may not be that big.

i am not like you, Yasha, who enjoys being in the “superior” team, steam rolling the team with lesser players.

just admit it already Yasha, that’s all what you want from this anyway.

randomized team will not guarantee the following:
- experienced team vs inexperienced team
- 5 vs 4

shuffling the players into teams based on their experience is a better option.
pure randomize will not do.

Try using your brain, if the teams are randomised and you can’t force autobalance to team swap you cannot choose to be on the “winning” side. The system as it is now lets me or anyone else manipulate the game to be on the winning or superior side, which is why it needs to be changed.

mPascoal.4258:

lindstroem.3601:

Yelabela.2718:

Dear Anet,

This map rewards low skill and trollish tactics, and it should be removed please.

…pretty please with a cherry on top?

Sincerely,

Not Enough Stability in the World

And where is the difference to the other maps, where the best AE spammer wins? Dont tell me that this requires more skill.

Majority is crying, cause their copy ‘n’ pasted condi bunker build from the internet doesnt dominate like on the other maps. The same reason why spiritwatch is also so unpopular. Hope this map and spiritwatch will stay forever in soloq to have some variety in the boring conquest meta.

Ah no
Skyhammer is just cancer
From all maps this one can kill you alone, just fall over the edge and BAM! dead. Ppl exploit this and since not all classes have acess to Stab and Fear, heavy CC classes like Engi, necro mesmer dominate there. And once you have the hammer you don’t lose team fights. With a hammer room like that the team with more CC or AOE wins basicly. SPAM ALL THE SKILLS AND HOPE THEY FALL

Spirit Watch needs adjustements and it will be fine Imo, Skyhammer needs to dissapier

It’s more frequent seeing ppl loging out the game once they see Skyhammer q, but not in any of the other maps. I think thats means something

I agree, also note that cc and aoe are already extremely powerful in this game, and generally require a relatively low level of skill to use. Skyhammer is almost the opposite of what the community has asked for in terms of the evolution of gameplay.

Indeed, one good thing that could be taken from it when developing new games/maps is to just do the exact opposite of everything in skyhammer and you are almost guaranteed to make something good.