Yeah, I really hate trebs and the hammer (in skyhammer) as well. Love the rest of the stronghold map though.
ded gaem, pvp broken. uninstall.
Uninstalling is a bit extreme, hopefully it will be fixed soon.
Just a heads up that I (and many others) can’t join pvp since the patch (we can join hotjoin, but that is just a joke I would rather play another game than that broken piece of poo).
Yeah, when in stealth you should leave footprints because even though invisible we can still hear and should be able to see the footprints right?
Also if blinded a player should move extremely slowly, or maybe the screen should go black because – well try closing your eyes and see how fast you can move about.
And what about burning? Surely the player should lose control of movement and run around in circles in pain trying to put out flames.
Probably these things should only happen if player is in stealth, because you know, L2P.
You know everytime I hear someone use the word L2P It makes me go to the PvP on my mesmer and simply kill the hell out of people without even attempting to use my shatters -.-;
Then you definitely need to L2P.
I play because its fun.
Edit- Yes and also has the best pvp in any mmo I have played.
Yeah, when in stealth you should leave footprints because even though invisible we can still hear and should be able to see the footprints right?
Also if blinded a player should move extremely slowly, or maybe the screen should go black because – well try closing your eyes and see how fast you can move about.
And what about burning? Surely the player should lose control of movement and run around in circles in pain trying to put out flames.
Probably these things should only happen if player is in stealth, because you know, L2P.
In all seriousness…. I think steal needs a rework. If a thief “steals” it should also disable an equivalent skill from the player they stole from until the thief uses the stolen item or is killed.
For example:
Warrior- steals weapon- ie main hand weapon disabled.
Ele- steals ice, ie cannot attune to water
Ranger- steals spring, ie cannot use healing skill
etc- please add appropriate suggestions if you have any.
Of course thieves would not be affected in this way because, as is well known, thieves have access to a secret stash.
What’s up with all these nerf thief threads recently? Thief is a shadow of the class it was at launch- (several of the above items have already been nerfed as well!)
You bring up a good point, obviously thief should be able to hit through blocks etc while stealthed.
How would 5 minion-mancers go? At least it would be great to see how the AI slugs it out.
i really dunno why i even bother keep reading this thread…
the amount if bs all in one place is just…mindblowing…
And yeah posting personal score and number of kills from nowhere…maybe unranked vs total scrubs aswell as hotjoin definately proves your point lol
Want to test how op thief really is? Ask texbi or bullet for a 1v1 then come back and tell everyone how easy it was…
Or you can 1v1 me aswell with your ez mode brand new thief….add me Archaon.6245 show me how you kill ppl just randomly spamming stuff
Please make a video and post it here, want to see this!
To be fair, I would say thief is quite easy to play in a very crude way like the OP describes. When I first started relearning thief for an experiment I tried to just use HS (I love the animation), and its true you can down some players or use it for mobility.
But that kind of play just gets you killed against anyone with half a brain, and doesn’t take advantage of the thief’s real potential- decaping and +1ing.
After playing thief for a while you realize that nearly every class counters zerker thief in 1vs1 fights. I am never going to win 1vs1 against most warrior builds on a d/p thief (especially after bp was nerfed), the same goes for engi, ele, and guard. There is some hope against ranger and necro, and the fight is in my favour against zerker Mesmer if I get the drop.
Most games I spend running/teleporting to decap and rushing back to burst down a weakened target, and quickly getting the hell out again. If the other team is particularly stupid I can troll them around a point and keep two or three occupied giving my team a numerical advantage elsewhere. Also thief comes in handy for saving teammates with shadow refuge or with the pistol interrupt. I think I have used HS twice in the last two months as an attack.
You actually have to be tricky and “ninja-like” to play thief well. Anet have done quite an amazing job differentiating the feel of different classes, and the depth of gameplay on some builds is quite astounding as well.
I really like courtyard. There are no cheesy instant kill mechanics or a need to stand in circles to win. Just two teams going head to head, its beautiful.
The layout of the map is great, I have seen various strategies, including using mid, flanking from behind, rushing in stealth through mid etc.
Games can be landslides, but I have also seen plenty of amazing comebacks- something that rarely happens in conquest.
Its a deceptively complex and deep map and gamemode. I didn’t think I would particularly like it, but its pretty much my favourite map. If your team mates have even a small idea about how to play it, its great fun.
Wow, you seem to have mastered the class so quickly – heartseeker ftw and shadow refuge, that’s deep stuff. I agree with your modest self-assessment that you probably only have to “work on some timings and cooldowns”.
The current meta is about ele and engi. All you need to win is: 2 engi, 2 ele and a guardian (only for condi removal and stability, to stomp your downed enemy.
That’s because engi have swiftness, vigor and protection almost all the time and a direct damage dealer can’t kill a engi easy (and sometimes just can’t).
And the ele have a large amount of condition remove skills, healing skills and good damage skills that make it a perfect class against condition damage builds.Then a good ele can kill also a direct damage class and a good engi can also kill a condition damage build (but only for it’s -50% of condition duration if under 33% hp and -25% condiiton duration by rune that make the engi able to avoid the 75% of condition damage just watching the enemy in the eyes and smiling. Ah, and they can transform a condition in a boon every 20 seconds just with a minor passive automatic trait).
Then if you have problems against ele and engi is a normal thing. Because if you find a good player and you’re alone you can leave the point and flee to your allies because in 1vs1 against a good ele/engi you can’t win.
But we’re lucky because there’s a lot of bad engi and ele that play, making us able to kill them.
This is exactly what I experience in game as well.
I’m lvl 70 atm and I joined unranked arenas to tryout some pvp.
I found myself fighting besides lv 20, lv3, lv80 while other team was full 80.
I couldn’t use any of my utility skills that I use in leveling.We ofc were eaten alive, I was getting 3-4 shotted.
Where is the sense there?
Can someone explain how this stuff works? I was reading that “everyone is equal” in pvp here and this system is actually good.
It’s not what I got as my first impression.Yes, I’m aware that you get scaled up to 80. But what’s the point if you still wear crap weapons and deal lot less dmg than some 80.
All weapons and armor are equalized in spvp. That means a greatsword, for example, will do the same amount of damage whether it is a legendary, ascended, level 1, or whatever. All the jewels, runes etc are also equalized.
In other words whether you are level 2 or level 80 or anything in between your character will not be more or less powerful in terms of class abilities or gear. Everyone does exactly the same amount of damage, everyone has exactly the same health/armor/etc (based on what traits you take and what jewellery etc you choose).
You also have access to all skills and traits, except for a few GM traits which you have to buy, but those are not game changing whatsoever- I don’t use them in most of the builds I play.
What is so amazing about GW2 spvp is that “its all skill and a little luck” (is that my guard that says that?). I am pretty sure that every other mmo pvp except GW1 has gear/level based pvp, basically people with the best gear win in those games. In GW2 you literally just have to L2P to win, its awesome.
Now in order to L2P, I strongly suggest you DO NOT play hotjoin- which is now called “practice”. Just read a little bit about the objectives in the pvp maps, maybe watch the vid linked above, get a decent build for spvp from GW2 metabuilds, the go and play lots of “Unranked” spvp.
The main thing to remember is that on all the maps except courtyard the main objective is to get points through controlling nodes, and that fighting away from nodes is generally bad. Also, always try to fight against an even number of enemies or with the numbers in your favour, and don’t just run mindlessly to your death alone when you respawn- go and get an empty node or something.
There is a huge amount to learn, but if you nail the basics and practise, maybe try out a few different classes in spvp (you can join spvp at any level, just make a new toon and hop right in), you will soon be a pro and not get 3-4 shotted so much.
Engies keep turrets- Warriors keep adrenaline…. and Thief keep initiative?
If you are just starting it is probably better not to play thief as you will likely die a lot and won’t be able to take advantage of the thief’s strengths- mobility, decaping, and +1ing. People will probably hate on you in games for playing badly because of this.
You are likely going to get destroyed whatever you play when you first start out, but picking a build with a bit of tankiness and some escapes or invuns/blocks, or strong pets/AI is a good start. Also good to have something that is kind of tanky but a support, instead of a key player like a bunker or a roamer so that you can just stay with a group and add pressure until you know what you are doing.
Probably the shoutbow warrior fits the above description best, or you could take a non zerker amulet guardian with some blocks knockbacks and heals- there was one build I played where I basically just used one skill (mace symbol of faith), very boring but hard to kill, low skill cap and gave healing/support so team could wreck face. I also hear turret engi is really easy although I haven’t played one. And necro minion master is pretty easy and is a huge presence in a game. People will be too scared to even go near you, haha.
Once you get the hang of things a bit play a zerker class, much more fun imo; its like playing a totally different game (meditation guard, some kind of thief, longbow ranger are fun).
Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.
Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?
So by this sentiment – if I can gather a bunch of people and state Rangers are fine since they outmatch any class in a 1v1, and thus can hold a point like no tomorrow, they are according to your logic in a good spot?
Despite the fact that the three least represented classes in the endgame of PvP are Mesmer, Necro and Ranger for a reason?
Here let me lay something fresh on you; Necro, Mesmer and Ranger work. Period. They can all do their tricks and more than often create interesting matchups in the favour of these classes…
However, all three of these are underrepresented, and require not just a bit more effort from the player – but a ton more… The fact that there are but three Mesmers in total, 1.5 Rangers (Drazeh) and 1.5 Necromancers (Drazeh again) in the top of both the NA and EU tournaments is quite telling as to what these classes are (not) capable of doing…
The risk/reward for these classes is not worth it – and quite frankly, it is nothing new for any of these as these classes have been suffering from this for literally years…
But hey, as long as they can destroy your average pug in SoloQ, despite the fact that any good player on any class can achieve the same, means they would never have to get some attention right?
Oh so by your logic if I can gather a few people together and say necro needs a buff then it makes it so? And now you want to throw mesmers and rangers in there as well, but give no solid reasoning for this other than you think they are harder to play than other classes.
Btw, what is “end-game pvp”? That sounds like something only someone with no clue about this game would say.
Like you point out any good player on any class can have a good chance of winning games, so stop crying for buffs and L2P.
A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.
Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..
Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).
Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958
Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.
I see one person saying that and everyone else disagreeing with said person. While they do counter Celementalists and Elengineers well…they still aren’t taken on most teams.
Think about that. They counter what is, on average, 60% of the opposing team, yet most teams don’t want one. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?
Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.
Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?
A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.
Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..
Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).
Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958
Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.
A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.
Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..
I thought the guard played pretty well, he used his focus block when the necro went to deathshroud to block the burst or cc, looks like he used his conditions-to-boons meditation when he got loaded up with conditions, (he may have used some other meditations in there as well I can’t tell) put the aoe sceptre skill on the necro after it went down, dodged the fear on downstate, and came in for the stomp.
I don’t really see what else he could have done, he made all the right moves but ended up going from full health to dead while the necro was downed.
Thanks for the vids, porting actually works better for me after the changes.
Making it instant cast would suit the aggressive style of the heal and work well with other meditations, but I guess the heals on a few classes tend to be unbalanced (ie only one is really worth taking). I just wish the new toys they gave us were actually worth playing with (I know its been in game for ages now, but its relatively new).
So engis just got another buff? Awesome.
I was playing skyhammer and I killed an ele. The ele did its mist form downstate into an open hole around the point (point c). I didn’t get a kill and its summons remained (attacking me), then I noticed the point wasn’t capping. I moved off it and the ele popped out of nowhere at low health. I don’t understand what happened, is it a bug?
Engi’s are definitely shooting above their weight. If I get two half decent engis in a pug game we are almost guaranteed a win (unless there are better engis on the other team).
Its not just turrets either. Overall too much damage mitigation, damage, and utility on several builds.
I have tried to use this a few times, but it feels more like I am running around with no heal (well a small one from monk’s focus). Has anyone figured out how to use this in spvp, or is it just as useless as it seems?
Slick shoes is in a completely different league to entangle and guard “ring”. Guard ring has a huge slow animation and only knocks you don if you try and enter leave the ring, entangle is a bit faster but there are many ways out of it (condi cleans, ports, blind ranger, dodge rangers inevitable follow up rapid shot-or interrupt/blind it, use an invun- so easy to mitigate).
Slick shoes- does it even have an animation? Suddenly there is just circles on the ground and you fall over. The only way to avoid it is stability or range.
Imagine if entangle was slick shoes. Wow. Give that to rangers and thief would be no more.
I’m new to guild wars 2 pvp but I played a lot of competitive games and i still play one on a daily basis (csgo).
In my opinion downed state in pvp is the most unfun and uninteresting thing I have ever seen in any competitive games. It is literally killing pvp.
Downstate is probably one of the best things in spvp, some of the greatest game changing plays revolve around how a player manages downstate.
Warrior – Higher HP, more CC, medium low DPS can’t maintain itself no protection slow regen, poor condition removals, can be melted like butter by specific comps.
Guardian – Lower HP, Medium to Medium low DPS, can maintain himself, with condition stripping and boons, can semi heal himself, low cc, no ranged weapon.
Roll Guardian, as Warriors are soon to become target dummies…
? You must be describing warrior from a different game.
Warrior has possibly the best sustain, cc removal, and regen of any class, has several ways to mitigate all damage, and can spec for very high DPS…
Guardian has ranged weapons, and can spec for huge burst damage, has some decent cc options as well….
Specifically between tanky builds, I would say the difference is guard requires a bit more thought and it might provide more group synergy.
(edited by Yasha.5963)
It’s weird how everyone thief experience in SPVP seems to be based on 1v1 and completely ignores the fact I said “team fights”.
I think maybe its just a misunderstanding. Thief is good in team fight in the sense that they can apply strong and unexpected burst on a priority target starting from outside melee range, but they have little sustain. That is why they are better at +1ing, because they can apply that strong pressure unexpectedly and quickly and then hopefully quickly disengage.
However, they are not good in a team fight in the sense of staying on/near a point that is covered in aoe and cleave, fighting against high health/high regen/lots of protection uptime etc type builds (pretty much the staple of this game), because they don’t have much range, cc cleanse, hard defences, or protection and have low health and armor.
I don’t remember anyone being excited about skyhammer, it featured all the things that the spvp community at the time did not want- ie a greater focus on standing on points, more cheese.
Stronghold is a non-conquest map and has some interesting moba like features, so yeah looking forward to it.
Of course you don’t remember, also the PvP “community” is big and varied, soooooooooo. Why would you know?
So are you saying you like a focus on standing in circles and cheese?
I don’t remember anyone being excited about skyhammer, it featured all the things that the spvp community at the time did not want- ie a greater focus on standing on points, more cheese.
Stronghold is a non-conquest map and has some interesting moba like features, so yeah looking forward to it.
Ele, engineer, necro, ranger, mesmer are all shut down or hugely pressured in group fights by thieves. Ranger isn’t viable because Thief exists.
Are you talking about a different game? Pretty much everything you have said about thief is wrong. Out of those classes, glass Mesmer is the only one that a thief can really pressure hard.
The typical ele and engi you see these days wipes the floor against zerker thief; zerker ranger used to be thief food but they got buffed (a lot) so its pretty even now.
Thief are not good in a group fight- they are good at +1ing a group fight. Why would a thief even be hanging around a group fight?
I think all my favourite builds are not meta builds, I tend to play builds that I find fun- shadow arts thief, zerker meditation guard, power necro, zerker ranger, or some kind of hybrid ranger. All the meta builds I have played so far seem fairly boring to play.
Its a fairly boring build that has amazing sustain, lots of condition removal, and a huge fire field that you can sit in pretty much permanently.
@Simon: Any turret engi with half a brain and decent build will not melt in seconds against conditions, and those conditions will be useless against the turrets.
i might be wrong, but don’t they melt to conditions.
at least thats what i switch to when i see turrets, and they just jump around helplessly and die..
sure they are extremly op against power builds.
They are strong against most zerker builds because those builds have to sacrifice survivability for raw damage and the turrets wreck them. They are strong against condition builds because conditions do not damage/cc the turrets and the engi can focus on building for survivability/high health etc because turrets.
They are strong 1vs1 because turrets, they are strong in a group because turrets, and they excel fighting on a point- where most of the fighting occurs and where the fighting is most important because turrets.
Other really easy builds like shoutheal warrior don’t have so many problems against them because of a mix of high health, regen, cc, and, condition cleanses, and condition damage.
I don’t see how adding the weaknesses of other classes AI/pets in addition of their owns would bring them in line. If anything it would make them far weaker, unless they are rebalanced in accord to the changes involved (a sensible increase of their hp, at least, and some tweaks in their fire rate to account for their new weaknesses). Guess what, though, no one ever talks about rebalancing them when they talk about adding all these weaknesses.
Not that i’m surprised by that. As far as i’ve seen, all these proposals are aimed only at making turrets useless.
It won’t make them useless, just bring them more in line with other pet/AI. Adding “all these weaknesses” is just allowing them to be affected by game mechanics that every other player/class/pet in the game is subject to.
They don’t need more HP- the thumper already has the health of a raid boss anyway-, they don’t need more damage, cc, or increased rate of fire. People are saying they would like turrets to be subject to the rules of the game that everything else has to abide by if they stay in their current state so that there is actual real counterplay against them. Otherwise, if they remain immune to everything except direct damage please drastically lower their HP, damage, cc etc.
People would fear or knock them out of sight and the engineers wouldn’t be able to move them back unless he picked them up, putting them on cooldown, effectively making them unusable.
They can’t move so fear/knock back would disable them in some way without moving them. Blind would prevent them from hitting for the duration, chill and cripple would slow rate of fire, damage conditions just damage them.
Even so they would still be powerful. But at least there would be some counter play for builds/classes that cant just face tank the damage and easily cure conditions. For example maybe you could blind the flamethrower and try and dodge the rocket. It would bring them more in line with other class AI/pets.
All the classes are good in GW2, the differences are in the builds, the player, and what class/build you are fighting against.
@Doctoris – I tried the BM ranger again after the axe buff, but everyone seems to have perma swiftness now so its quite hard for the pets to hit much, also I am pretty sure the pets got a big nerf some time ago and that is basically what killed the build in the first place.
I’d like turrets to be extremely tanky by default but deal zero damage, and instead provide passive benefits/utility much like spirits from ranger.
Funnily enough they already can be traited to provide might, vigor, swiftness, fury, retaliation, and protection (one grandmaster trait, depends on turret) to everyone in 600m radius at 10 sec intervals.
Can I blind them, chill them, poison them, bait them? Can’t do anything except direct damage to them. There is very little counterplay except to outrange them – which is impossible when taking a node as in my above example.
All the engi does is run around, avoiding damage, LOSing, and healing. Not to mention that the turrets have some of the strongest effects among the AI in GW2. For example it is fairly easy to avoid a ranger’s pet just by moving and the only necro pet with a really powerful ability is the ultimate. All the engi turrets have strong activated abilities and the passives are none too shabby and unerringly hit since they are ranged.
Every other AI/pet has a counter play. The way turrets are at the moment is verging on ridiculous.
You can LoS them, ignore, Cleave, Knock/Pull engi out.
Or HEAVEN forbid use Stability to get in, burst/knock the engi out, and get out.Hell with my Dual kit condi I can facetank the turrets and still pressure the engi off point, taking it WITH HIS TURRETS THERE. No power damage required.
Nothing you say above relates to what I mentioned in my original post. You have just written some generic statement and ended with massaging your kitten.
You cannot line of sight turrets if you are taking a point, you cannot ignore them if taking a point, you cannot cleave them unless the engi has obligingly left them all lined up next to each other, and you cannot attack an engi when they are not there – and even if they are, any with half a brain will just be running around evading your attacks and LOSing you, while the turrets take you down.
Finally, yes, if you have a build that can face tank turrets and you have lots of conditions you can force the engi off point. But that is not what I was talking about.
There are numerous problems with turrets, the one I mentioned was that they are the only pet/AI in the game that a glass class cannot counterplay. It is ridiculous that an engi can leave a point defended by turrets and basically prevent a typical glass roamer from taking it. If a ranger pet was on a point and the ranger did not attack, you just watch it and dodge its very obvious tells, blind it, chill it, cripple it =counter play. Same goes for necro minions.
But with turrets you basically just have to take the damage – it is ranged, comes at you from several directions, often positioned where you have to leave the point to attack it, two of them have extremely long range, are not effected by conditions so you can’t slow their rate of fire or blind them (two key abilities used by glass classes to avoid damage), are strong enough that you can’t just take them out with raw damage before they take the player out= no real counter play. And that is without the actual engi even being there. Its clearly unbalanced.
Turrets are far too strong, and promote ridiculous low still gameplay. They either need to have far less health, far less damage/cc, or stay the same but allow players to disable them through CC, blinds, chill etc and allow conditions to damage them.
Atm turrets left strategically on or around a point can pretty much stop a glass build from capping, there is no counter play. On certain points a turret engi can just run around avoiding damage and LoSing while turrets do all the work. Its probably the worst thing in game atm.
No counterplay? WOW… Outplayed by an AI to a WHOLE new level.
Can I blind them, chill them, poison them, bait them? Can’t do anything except direct damage to them. There is very little counterplay except to outrange them – which is impossible when taking a node as in my above example.
All the engi does is run around, avoiding damage, LOSing, and healing. Not to mention that the turrets have some of the strongest effects among the AI in GW2. For example it is fairly easy to avoid a ranger’s pet just by moving and the only necro pet with a really powerful ability is the ultimate. All the engi turrets have strong activated abilities and the passives are none too shabby and unerringly hit since they are ranged.
Every other AI/pet has a counter play. The way turrets are at the moment is verging on ridiculous.
Turrets are far too strong, and promote ridiculous low still gameplay. They either need to have far less health, far less damage/cc, or stay the same but allow players to disable them through CC, blinds, chill etc and allow conditions to damage them.
Atm turrets left strategically on or around a point can pretty much stop a glass build from capping, there is no counter play. On certain points a turret engi can just run around avoiding damage and LoSing while turrets do all the work. Its probably the worst thing in game atm.
When I see that it is getting close to 4am.
Hi there. I’d like to know how it is possible to be hit by deathly claws for 4-7k average. This every 3/4 of a second. Is this a bug? Exploit? Wrong Math?
This is a build i see running many necros theese days, a cheese build with a ranged shot hitting like a train.
No bug, it is just really, really powerful – also pierces. Its fun to play, if you time it right you can basically destroy the whole enemy team in a zerg fight. Some classes/skills can just directly counter it though (reflects and chaining blocks/invun).