Guild Wars 2

apharma.3741:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Step.1285:

That being said, as it stands, there really isn’t all that much ArenaNet can do to give us the option to deal comparative DPS in a way that forces us to drop our utility (especially utility of the offensive kind, such as alacrity and quickness). If they buff either of our offensive trait lines like Domination and Dueling, there’s nothing stopping us from taking those trait lines along with Chronomancer and having better DPS while still being awesome support gods of timey wimey stuff.

Point is, Chronomancer is like 80 – 90% of our group DPS buffing, so if we’re not forced to drop that trait line for better DPS

So this is why I think the damage modifier changes would work well: Runes, sigils and food also affect chrono buffs. Rune of chrono is a big part of group quickness but prevents scholar bonus. Sigil of concentration prevents use of force and accuracy(or night/slaying for dungeons) at the same time. 20% boon duration food is mutually exclusive with 10% salad or other DPS stat food.

Domination has 15% and then another 12.5% vs vuln.
Dueling has p.fury, 15% and 150 ferocity and requires spamming MoP.
Illusions has phantasmal haste and 9%

Chrono and inspiration are both used in the support build. It’s about the choice of picking all 3 DPS trait lines and DPS gear or only being able to pick one DPS traitline and support gear. If all those modifiers affected phantasms: (1.125*1.15*1.09*1.05*1.07*1.1*1.1=90% more phantasms DPS) and then also p.Fury and p.Haste and ferocity need to be factored in for around a ~150% more phantasm damage that wouldn’t be available in chrono support build. This isn’t including grace of the land and other team buffs that aren’t raw stats.

Summon 1 duelist and 2 swordsman with this build in the DPS testing with the most basic off buffs (vuln, might and banners)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra88msICloBUrhFVDqsDlYAkBYE7EtLpJKA-TBBXgA9q/As/o8LU/wjSQSBMwYA-e
About 7.8k dps for just phantasms. 7.8k * 2.5 = 19.5k dps from just the phantasm. Add some auto attacks, sc 3 and MoP spam and it wouldn’t be half bad and you hit about 30k in the most selfish mesmer DPS build. Add party buffs like spotter and grace of the land affecting phantasms too and the Mesmer now has a good DPS build that is selfish. Could theoretically go higher with staff phantasms and enough conditions. No major rework to separate PvP, WvW and PvE. Mutually exclusive with the chrono support build.

Personally I’d rather they didn’t go down that route as we still have the clunkiness of the phantasm mechanic which puts us at odds with our class mechanic shatters. There are no other classes that sacrifice all their DPS just to use their mechanic.

Instead I’d rather they remove the idea of phantasms from the game entirely and adjust skills accordingly but that’s just personal preference. I know it would take a lot but phantasms just don’t work at all.

Phantasms just need to be illusionary strikes you summon and once they do their attack, they despawn. In exchange, lower cooldowns to 7-9 seconds. That way, you only have 1 phantasm strike with no 3 phantasm ramp up, you use them as a warrior would use 100b or a thief Vault.

It also massively reduces mesmer DPS ramp up.

Offhand sword phantasm also needs to be a cleave.

Then we can buff Blurred Frenzy to the damage of a pistol whip and buff mesmer autoattacks by around 40%.

No marauders in raids or fractals, please. Keep marauders for open world pve champs.

Ubik.8315:

Marauder works great, minimal dps loss vs straight zerker for significant boosts to survivability. You can also bring a staff for better ranged options as well as swapping traits to defensive ones (ie, earth/water) and using defensive utilities if needed.

It’s not remotely a minimal DPS loss, it’s substantial.

Dagger autoattacks have the longest range of all melee classes sot here’s no reason to be getting hit by anything if you melee at max range and learn to dodge. If you’re having survival issues, equip a focus instead of a warhorn.

Air overload also has huge range for you to safely cast it from.

Straegen.2938:

How to master the thief:

Log out, create a new character known as the “mesmer”, find any decent stealth shatter condi build and enjoy face roll kills on typical WvW players.

My point here is that you must be exceptional to be decent on a thief while being average is pretty great on some other classes.

lol how pathetic, thief counters power shatter mesmer. Stop cluttering advice threats with your whiny pity parties.

Daredevils are among the most popular classes for roaming in WvW. Good luck disengaging from zerglings as a mesmer while trying to roam. Hope your blink and decoy take you far because that’s all you got.

Thief damage also doesn’t vanish into thin air the moment some aoe starts being used since illusions are made of wet toilet paper.

Mouse.4782:

Mesmer is a fun class to play. If you want dps and monster crit numbers flashing on screen, play something else. Everyone on the team doesn’t need massive dps. What utility would you give up for the dps boost?

The utility warriors are giving for their 26k DPS. Which is to say, none.

Burtnik.5218:

Zenith.7301:

I just wish CoR could hit anything without bugging on terrain, same for UA.

And it bothers me to no end that the animation for UA si so slow that people with swiftness can walk out while you’re frozen mid air and the ability cancels. UA’s range either needs to be increased or we should be allowed to be mobile while it’s starting to cast instead of rooted in place as it begins to cast.

Dude.. you can move during UA cast animation. WTF?
Ah i completely forgot.. i am in the forum.

You move slower while the animation is activating. Try it out, someone with swiftness can walk in the middle of the jump and cancel your animation.

You can move while the jump into mists animation is winding up, but when you reach the point you’re about to start porting you get stuck in place.

mazut.4296:

I used them a lot more pre HoT, but can’t force myself using them now. Maybe in some open PvE situations?!
Since HoT I just can’t compare them to Mesmers and get disappointed every time. Mesmers wells are so much better… Imagine if only necro got the elite mesmer well paired with WoS and WoC.

Mesmer wells don’t do remotely the same damage necro wells do, and the effects of a mesmer well are much easier to dodge.

I just wish CoR could hit anything without bugging on terrain, same for UA.

And it bothers me to no end that the animation for UA si so slow that people with swiftness can walk out while you’re frozen mid air and the ability cancels. UA’s range either needs to be increased or we should be allowed to be mobile while it’s starting to cast instead of rooted in place as it begins to cast.

Varezenem.2813:

Coldtart.4785:

Ditch the tablet. It may be ‘unique’, but it’s uniquely terrible.

That’s a terrible advice. Truth be told hadn’t they removed the clerics amulet I’m quite sure Ventari would have been competitive in PvP.
Also in PvE there are no problems with the healing part it’s the DPS buffing part that’s lacking for a meta spot.

Not really. Ventari is terrible in PvE. Incredibly high energy costs makes that legend utter trash for anything besides projectile reflect.

The healing on that tablet is also pathetically low, and in this game the kind of healing that’s valuable is burst healing, which is why druids and tempests dominate while Ventari doesn’t.

Hitting spread players with that tablet efficiently is another problem as well, whereas a druid can lunar strike a huge radius and a tempest can shout to heal people for 3-4k+.

The rest of the utilities on ventari are also pretty mediocre. Outside a reflect, mallyx is far superior to let your group cope with condition spam, and the other skill is a measly aoe heal with an immense energy cost and delay to the heal.

You would have to do hefty energy cost reductions, buff the radius of the tablet, and make it so when you summon the tablet it also heals the revenant significantly so the revenant’s personal survival is not kitten whenever he equips ventari.

Another issue is that outside shiro and glint, the other legends really don’t have viable stun breaks. Stunbreaks need to be built into the utility slots of mallyx and ventari.

Hell, even the utility costs of the legends wouldn’t be so terrible if they just removed energy costs from weapons and kept energy as a limiting factor for utilities/elites only.

They also need to buff the staff, either in its autoattack damage or buff those terrible 150 hp orb heals at the end of the attack chain.

The staff will never be used in PvE and they keep nerfing it for PvP reasons when the only worthwhile skills on it are staff 3 and 5, while the rest are mediocre energy hogs.

Dawdler.8521:

“Alot of potential”?

Well necros have been meta and required backliners in WvW for over 4 years. Some servers run so many that they cover a 20×20 meter field in circles.

Necros run wells because it’s the only utility skills they have that isn’t absolute dogkitten.

An elementalist packs more punch with mere weaponskills with lower cooldowns than wells.

They bring a single well for boon strip, which mesmers can also do with null field.

Wells of darkness, blood, and power are pretty garbage with their immense cooldowns.

Problem with radius increase is that it is a ranged two part hit with significant travel times.

It will never hit an opponent with a heart pulse because of how much time the opponent has to avoid the second hit and pull.

They should make it so if the first hit lands, it knocks the target down and drags it to you with the returning hit.

That core mesmer is terrible considering you’re running a purely selfish build. Those mantras are useless, you are not even giving alacrity. For 20-21k power DPS.

Power ranger isn’t that much better, although a purely selfish condi ranger reaches 30k DPS.

And I will say it’s a terrible class design when you don’t even want to use your class mechanics because shatters by default in PvE are a DPS loss. That needs to change.

Zelulose.8695:

Its true because the classes they needed to fix was ranger/revenant/mesmer and they didn’t do much to them.

Yeah, let’s nerf the ranger back into irrelevance away from this boring niche bunker role which is the only thing it’ll ever be good at.

Let’s also replace revenants and mesmers with thieves and warriors. That will make for a better game for sure!

Crapgame.6519:

Not going to mince words but we both know that isn’t true. The only difference between a T1 and below are the numbers. Has nothing to do with playing to win. Purely a numbers game and wall clock.

Look at DH/EB for one example in their 2 v 3 v 4 paring for the past few weeks. You mean DH/EB are losing because they don’t play to win? Or maybe it is just that they can’t field equal numbers…

Arena net, please come here and correct me if I’m wrong.

Equal numbers my kitten . Tarnished Coast is fighting — outmanned-- Blackgate blobs the size of China+India pretty much all day and they still manage to trounce Blackgate.

Thus Blackgate runs pathetic clusters of 3 guild zergs like KnT to even try to compete against superior smaller numbers.

And that’s when they’re not trying to force a fight near their siege despite having massive numbers advantage.

You can thank spvp for this. They’d cry a river of tears if our autoattacks and blurred frenzy were brought up remotely close to what thief or ele is pulling.

Mesmer has always been held back by spvp, which is what they balance for.

vonbladewing.5973:

i see im not the only person that dislikes the new hair choices over all, for myself i main a Norn and a big fan of the race because the concept is base off of Norse culture and lore with a light influence with Native American, Mongolian and Samoan culture. The problem is that almost all the hairstyles for Norn male and female don’t portray the concept of the culture of the race there way to much human culture hairstyles to choose from.

So i would like the devs to dig deep into the google to look up Nordic, Native American, Mongolian and Samoan haircuts to base concept off of.

Are you seriously implying Samoans and any ethnicties you deem “exotic” are not really human?

Mitch.4781:

Still. Hope you guys enjoyed your blues and greens after downing bloomy!

Rewards will always be trash in this game, the whole point is to have poor rewards to incentivize gem buying to circumvent gold grinds.

Your only good source of income in this game by design is playing the trading post. Nothing comes even remotely close to it.

Don’t try berserker thief in WvW unless you gain some experience, or you will be farmed by more experienced thieves and mesmers and scrappers and warriors.

Being “set up to lose” does not entitle you to throw a tantrum and abuse people.

If you want to win, get a team. No game is under the obligation to hand you possibilities to win as a PUG.

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

You are confusing cast time with channel time. What I said is true, you can completely dodge both of those skills.

These are channeled damage abilities! They don’t do the entirety of their damage until the channel is complete.

A single dodge won’t take up even half of the time this channel goes through.

You do realize that you can keep attacking while you command your pet and it acts in concurrence with you, right? You don’t have to stop attacking when you command your pet… You can even pre-cast your pet abilities while you swing at your foe.

I only ask because, if you know this, you should realize the pet cast time is irrelevant, while the channel time is very relevant. The channel for both of those skills to complete is around 1-1.5s. They are designed so a single dodge roll can completely avoid them, and likewise, deal all their damage in a short timeframe.

It’s pointless to argue with you people. You keep resorting to tangents to distract from the fact that the activation+ completion time of a skill is exactly as the tooltip says.

Who the hell cares if you can keep attacking. You can attack whether that skill is casting or not, how is that remotely relevant.

And the BM quickness trait is terrible since pets always pause for a while as soon as they’re swapped in so part of the quickness effect is lost before the pet reacts.

Fluffball.8307:

Zenith.7301:

You wouldn’t know honest, useful information if it poked you in the eye.

Feel free to leave the thread if you’re just in the mood for vague platitudes.

Why are you throwing a fit over what I said? You posted one of the most one-sided, biased, and dishonest reviews of druid that I’ve ever seen. According to you, druids can’t do anything in WvW at all. That’s not useful for a forum based on sharing information rather than just attacking other people until you win the thread and no one wants to read it anymore.

Basically: calm down, we’re all on the same team here. I don’t recognize your name so I’m guessing you don’t main ranger? If you listen to us more experienced rangers (Jim posted some good stuff) you’ll learn how to use ranger effectively in WvW.

lol, you don’t know my name, so I must not main druid.

What kind of self-important dolt would resort to such tortured logic?

I’ve been playing ranger since early closed beta, I don’t need late comers like you telling me what experienced rangers have to say.

Especially some clueless guy who says T1 means nothing because roaming is garbage in T1. Yes, it’s garbage because roaming is useless. That’s what makes a difference between a T1 match up and below, one plays to win and the other doesn’t.

Carighan.6758:

Zelulose.8695:

This is extreme but true. I hadn’t thought that the reason they don’t listen to spvp is because we are an ever decreasing minority. PvE is actually beginning to get fun so I may venture there for a little while Lol.

Well yeah the number is a huge exaggeration ofc, but…
Thing is, maybe GW2 could have been a solid sPvP game. Maybe. If it had focused on nothing else. The devs spread themselves too thin, and even if they hadn’t it’s a big if because the market is no longer at all like it was when GW1 released. Nowadays MOBAs reign supreme in the tactical-action party-based PvP scene. That’s a big thing to overcome. Look at how much Heroes of the Storm struggles to make way against DotA2 and LoL, and that is a) Blizzard and b) an actual MOBA.

I mean don’t get me wrong, I’d hate it if someone axes WvW, though at the same time I have to admit that as much as I loved RvR in DAoC, the devs lack the time and the focus to make WvW as enjoyable as that was. I’d rather have them focus on one thing at a time, and actually excel at that.

HoTS struggled because it debuted with a pretty bad match making system.

Moreover, HoTS unlike LoL and DOTA does NOT allow you to carry and solo groups of players by yourself even remotely.

There’s no real equivalent of an ADC or fed top. There’s not even a comparison in “fed”, because HoTS keeps levels between opposing sides fairly even.

What this translates to is that HoTS is entirely team reliant. You can’t carry randoms at all.

This poses problem for the sizable solo queue demographic in MOBA games. If MMR hell is real, its name is HoTS soloQ.

Fluffball.8307:

Zenith.7301:

Not really, at least not in tier 1 match ups.

If you’re a gank squad, ranger’s kitten anyways, better replaced by a thief/scrapper/warrior who can kill far faster than autoattacking someone with staff/longbow and hoping the smokescale does the rest.

Ranger has garbage burst and garbage aoe, druid is a dueling build not a gank squad one.

I think even you must realize you dramatized things druid’s are bad at and ignored everything they’re good at. You don’t need to “win” the thread by typing this kind of stuff; post honest, useful information.

You wouldn’t know honest, useful information if it poked you in the eye.

Feel free to leave the thread if you’re just in the mood for vague platitudes.

Eponet.4829:

Zenith.7301:

Joxer.6024:

“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”

I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.

We already got a trinity. Chronos can tank, and druids are pigeonholed into healer roles.

The problem is not lack of roles, it’s that some classes utterly dominate those roles and push everybody else to the side.

It’s not just chronos that can tank. Anyone can tank, it’s simply that chronomancers have such low damage that you lose the least from sticking them in that role. It’s not any particular ability that makes chronomancers such popular tanks, it’s their inability to deal competitive damage.

Well, yeah, and in many encounters there is no strict tank so much as a trigger for who gets aggro.

But chronomancers are not just appealing for the tank job because of terrible DPS. Blurred Frenzy is a stupidly low cd evasion, and you’ve got 2 shield blocks on top of signet invulnerability.

More importantly, the chrono can use his meta weapons to effectively tank, whereas most other classes like say revenant would be resorting to the garbage staff or offhand shield, etc.

Nevertheless, you are right in that it just so happens that the two classes with terrible DPS happen to be the classes pigeonholed to tank and healer respectively.

Fluffball.8307:

Zenith.7301:

People only play druids for roaming/duels, which do nothing of significant value for the mist war score.

If you roam to honorably duel you don’t contribute anything, but if you roam to help the zerg or team you help way more than 1 person in a zerg does. Especially if you’re in TS with the zerg commanders who are more than happy to have organized roamers pre-flipping camps for a keep rush or etc.

And if you have a few buddies, a 3 man team or so can be absolutely devastating to enemy zerg reinforcements. You often see small organized parties tying up like 20 enemy solo players running out of respawn.

The whole idea that rangers are bad in WvW is just a myth that has been repeated so often that even ranger mains actually believe that nonsense.

Not really, at least not in tier 1 match ups.

If you’re a gank squad, ranger’s kitten anyways, better replaced by a thief/scrapper/warrior who can kill far faster than autoattacking someone with staff/longbow and hoping the smokescale does the rest.

Ranger has garbage burst and garbage aoe, druid is a dueling build not a gank squad one.

What this game needs is a council system like League of Legends, with obvious GM reviews of chat logs.

This game should also not allow someone from the opposing team to contact or message you in any way whatsoever, and the block/ignore feature should ignore all forms of chat including say.

Joxer.6024:

“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”

I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.

We already got a trinity. Chronos can tank, and druids are pigeonholed into healer roles.

The problem is not lack of roles, it’s that some classes utterly dominate those roles and push everybody else to the side.

Justine.6351:

Zenith.7301:

Barrage needs a big time damage buff to be competitive with meteor shower and encro wells, and a cd redcution.

It’s beyond absurd barrage has a longer cd than meteor shower.

Barrage and meteor shower have the same cd.
The biggest difference is how they deal their dmg and ofcoarse the soft cc on barrage.

NOW they have the same cd.

When ele trait provided a 33% cooldown reduction compared to 20%, meteor storm was lower cd.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Zenith.7301:

Alex Shatter.7956:

Elementalist and thief didn’t get damage nerfed, they are still in the #1 and #2 spot respectively. Since the bracket didn’t budge, I find it hard to declare them as “nerfed”. But the gap with other professions (ranger, engineer, mesmer, guardian, warrior) was closed, so other professions with less DPS got indirectly buffed

lol gap was closed?

You do realize mesmer is doing 13.7k DPS while an ele is doing 34-36k, right? Power ranger is a pitiful 17-18k DPS.

And don’t bring this crap about utility/support because PS warrior with scholar runes does 26k DPS and brings the strongest raid buffs in the game, while being ahead of power mesmer by 12k DPS and ahead of power ranger by 8-9k DPS.

PvE DPS balance is terrible and so is role competitiveness.

Hurray, at some point that they nerf ele enough you’ll stack 3 daredevils or 3 condi engineers or 3 guardians instead.

Such wonderful design.

While I agree that Phalanx Strength is an absolute bullkitten trait, keep in mind that Mesmer and Ranger buffs are much more unique while you could easily have other classes to generate might, even though it wouldn’t be as simple as with a PS.

It’s not the might you’re concerned about.

It’s the OP banners and empower allies. The banners are unique to the warrior class and provide a metric ton of multiple offensive stats, even a higher amount of stats than a simple stat buff aura like empower allies (which warriors also get lol, and the most important power damage stat to boot) or spotter.

PS is the icing on the cake since all a warrior needs to do to proc all that might is do his DPS rotation while other classes would need to shift their builds to lower DPS to make up for that might deficit.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for power mesmer and ranger to be doing the garbage DPS they currently are.

Especially since you have these classes be stuck with garbage DPS for utility that isn’t even that useful outside raids as in WvW a frontline/backline ele is a far superior healer for a zerg without the massive DPS loss of a druid, and mesmers are veil/portal bots since you can’t even remotely land alacrity/quickness reliably on a group with stationary wells and boon strips from necros, let alone illusions dying immediately to aoe.

So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.

Shadelang.3012:

If longbow recieved something along hte lines of the auto attack being unblockable when striking your target from behind (allowing it to penetrate the sheer kittenload of active defense flying around in zergs) or when fired from max range. Then longbow would be useful as a pick weapon again.

Rangers by design atleast for now can’t be as good at melee as other classes in wvw environments. Our pets hurt us in large scale combat just as much as they help us in small scale combat.

So we can’t effectively be frontline. We can however be just behind the frontline in a healing staff build. But then we don’t contribute to damage where as a frontline ele would be able to do both. Thus a frontline ele will be preferred.

We can be good roamers. But as far as zerg v zerg combat goes? We don’t have a place.

In reply to the above I would say that damage increases wouldn’t actually do anything. We need tools to make our attacks more likely to land like the aforementioned unblockable. A glass bow has enough damage to hurt ANYONE it hits. But it has to actually HIT the target. And its so easy for our arrows to be intercepted/destroyed that there just isnt much point to further damage increases.

lol no. Hitting 1-3 targets does nothing in zerg fights.

Barrage needs a big time damage buff to be competitive with meteor shower and encro wells, and a cd redcution.

It’s beyond absurd barrage has a longer cd than meteor shower.

Ranger sucks because fireball from ele hits harder and cleaves baseline, and fire staff has the aoe the ranger doesn’t have in any of his weapons since ranger aoe is utter garbage.

Alex Shatter.7956:

Elementalist and thief didn’t get damage nerfed, they are still in the #1 and #2 spot respectively. Since the bracket didn’t budge, I find it hard to declare them as “nerfed”. But the gap with other professions (ranger, engineer, mesmer, guardian, warrior) was closed, so other professions with less DPS got indirectly buffed

lol gap was closed?

You do realize mesmer is doing 13.7k DPS while an ele is doing 34-36k, right? Power ranger is a pitiful 17-18k DPS.

And don’t bring this crap about utility/support because PS warrior with scholar runes does 26k DPS and brings the strongest raid buffs in the game, while being ahead of power mesmer by 12k DPS and ahead of power ranger by 8-9k DPS.

PvE DPS balance is terrible and so is role competitiveness.

Hurray, at some point that they nerf ele enough you’ll stack 3 daredevils or 3 condi engineers or 3 guardians instead.

Such wonderful design.

I was deeply disappointed that 6-7 months of wait came with such meager class balance changes that did little to address the massive PvE DPS and build viability disparities that currently exist.

Ranger and Necromancer greatswords remain terrible weapons.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

How can you say you want all classes to have some viable builds for different roles, yet you have some classes doing triple the DPS of others because there is a refusal to buff weapon autoattacks and ability damage for the underperforming classes like mesmer and ranger?

You can’t say utility is a reason, because warriors bring the strongest DPS boosting utility in game and yet they do around 12.1k more DPS than mesmer and 9.1k more DPS than power ranger.

How can you allow these disparities to exist for so long?

You say you want power necromancers to be viable and created an elite specialization with a greatsword that simply is not used in either raids, WvW, or spvp as it’s a weak weapon you haven’t bothered to buff.

Mesmers do 13.7k DPS while thieves and elementalists and guardians are doing more than 30k DPS now. Why is that?

You now have the tools to split PvE balance from PvP, so why do you continue to hold mesmer and ranger back for their performance in PvP?

Why are necromancer’s survival tools like Rise getting nerfed while warriors are now allowed to stack their 10+ second long chains of invulnerability even more effectively while having more CC and burst than a power necromancer?

You made chill a core aspect of reapers, and yet it is a useless condition outside breakbars in PvE, which seldom activate in an encounter.

Classes like daredevils and warriors ignore chill completely either with easy access to removals by dodging or massive resistance uptimes.

I really don’t understand why we’re seeing such anemic class balance efforts, and why class balance continues to be tied around PvP seasons when there’s a massively larger PvE and WvW player base ailing due to these balance changes being tied solely around spvp.

I now look at patches and approach them with little expectations because it has been 4 years and the massive class disparities in effectiveness in PvE and WvW continue to fester with little indication of changing.

Amineo.8951:

Zenith.7301:

Sadrien.3470:

Zenith.7301:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

You people are so pathetically misinformed.

Guardian only behind ele, thief, rev, and engineer.

It is ahead of mesmer, necro, warrior, and ranger.

Stop crying. Your hammer rotation is braindead and nets you 29k DPS, way ahead of power ranger’s 18k DPS or mesmer’s 13k DPS.

Wrong! 34k scepter rotation now Lel.

Let them cry more, though. About their poor 29-34k DPS while other classes are only doing a third of their DPS.

The main issue with Guardians is that it was boring to play, this is no longer the case with the changes made, but that’s only for anything outside of Raids and High Level fractals.

Welcome to GW2. You’ve got 10 skills, of which only 8 can possibly offensive and only half of those MAYBE rotational.

I mean, this game was bound to be easy with only 8 skills to use in PvE.

It’s a useless class for zergs/large scale, since ranger aoe and utility (since spirits die quick there) is trash.

People only play druids for roaming/duels, which do nothing of significant value for the mist war score.

It’s always been garbage. At the very least the heal procs should also remove or transfer a condition back to the target.

myren.5490:

Well you just pointed out a problem with thief, eh? Dodges doing dmg is so dumb lol. I’ve gotten some pretty big numbers using ranger gs but I will agree that it needs a bit of help. It’s like necro gs, just a small attack speed boost and it will most likely be much better.

A small attack speed boost won’t change the ~14k DPS gap ranger (talking about core full offensive, not even druid which is even less DPS) has against a thief.

Necro greatsword at best sees 23k DPS, which is still behind by 11k to daredevil.

Just play an ele or daredevil, the kill times on those classes compared to others is a joke.

bearshaman.3421:

Zenith.7301:

B;izzard has always pushed more frequent and comprehensive balanc e patches than Anet in all of its games, it’s nothing new.

And Final Fantasy XIV is the only MMO out there besides Wildstar which has classes with DPS well between 5-10% of each other.

This is the only atrocious current MMO that has some classes doing triple the DPS of others.

I will point out that both Blizzard and Square have bank accounts that are so ridiculously large as to make this comparison completely unfair to Anet.

Anet has a Farmville style cash store and they’re making 2 outfits a month, I’m not concerned for their wallets.

B;izzard has always pushed more frequent and comprehensive balanc e patches than Anet in all of its games, it’s nothing new.

And Final Fantasy XIV is the only MMO out there besides Wildstar which has classes with DPS well between 5-10% of each other.

This is the only atrocious current MMO that has some classes doing triple the DPS of others.

myren.5490:

Zenith.7301:

myren.5490:

Ranger greatsword ain’t that bad. Shortbow is pretty bad I’ll agree. All necro gs needs is an attack speed boost and that’s it tbh. Although calling the devs “you people” isn’t gonna get your forum post read. I recommend you act civil in your next post and maybe JUST MAYBE they’ll care to read it.

P.S. what’s wrong with guardian scepter being better than sword…

A ranged weapon should never be better DPS than a melee one, period. It’s part of what makes ele so broken compared to other classes.

And ranger greatsword is terrible, only reason they use it is because they don’t have any other choice for melee weapons, as they all do pretty pitiful damage.

Power ranger does like 18k DPS with 1h sword and greatsword is like 2k DPS less than 1h sword. It’s super bad.

You may be right about ranger greatsword since it feels kinda slow but ranger great sword is mostly a burst type weapon since all of the attacks are very bursty in nature. A 2k dps difference isn’t that horrible compared to say mesmer gs and mesmer 1h s. Usually burst weapons have bad dps. Also I don’t agree with ranged weapons have to be worse than melee weapons. That can also be the sad mesmer in me who hates to see his poor gs get laughed at.

Ranger GS is not a burst weapon.

In full berzerker ascended with scholar runes my thief’s Bounding Dodge (daredevil damaging dodge, which they can use 6 times) does more damage than a maul, which is not a dodge but a weaponskill with a cd.

Even Longbow Rapidfire does far more damage than maul.

Ranger Greatsword autoattacks are among the lowest DPS in game. Rangers use greatsword mostly for swoop and block when people get in their face.

Even now the roaming druid builds skip on greatsword and just go staff+LB.

Jourdelune.7456:

Fay.2357:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Lots of assumptions and words being put in to my mouth here. Thanks guys.

Ah, sorry about that. Let me use your words exactly as written to avoid this issue.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Was this necessary? It was already a top build last season without these very powerful and game changing buffs.

Right, so as you so explicitly stated, you’re complaining that the mesmer build was already strong without these buffs. The problem is that none of the buffs touch anything the strong mesmer build uses, instead helping some of the far weaker unused mesmer builds.

In other words, you’re totally wrong and this complaint has absolutely zero value.

Any questions?

Except that condi mesmer would probably try scepter/torch… Perhaps torch could replace Shield, so mesmer could kill faster than they were able to.

I don’t agree with RANT all classes buff or NERF.

But at least Mesmer got something to work for. Their support side is “buff” a bit and it’s welcomed even if the “support” amulet don’t work much on mesmer.

Torch is still trash, mesmer won’t use that over shield.

myren.5490:

Ranger greatsword ain’t that bad. Shortbow is pretty bad I’ll agree. All necro gs needs is an attack speed boost and that’s it tbh. Although calling the devs “you people” isn’t gonna get your forum post read. I recommend you act civil in your next post and maybe JUST MAYBE they’ll care to read it.

P.S. what’s wrong with guardian scepter being better than sword…

A ranged weapon should never be better DPS than a melee one, period. It’s part of what makes ele so broken compared to other classes.

And ranger greatsword is terrible, only reason they use it is because they don’t have any other choice for melee weapons, as they all do pretty pitiful damage.

Power ranger does like 18k DPS with 1h sword and greatsword is like 2k DPS less than 1h sword. It’s super bad.

ErebusVindictus.6514:

misterman.1530:

Might be with you all there. This has gotten ridiculous. Perma-stealth thieves and mesmers…and yet no real QoL for necros. No leap abilities, no port abilities, no real charge abilities except for Reaper Shroud skill 2. If we are in danger, we are screwed.

The fact that a necro doesn’t have some sort of stealth (Walk Through Shadows) is ridiculous.

I blame PvP for these changes. Nothing else makes sense.

As a Thief main, perma stealth just got thrown out the window with the new nerf

I cri ;-;

It’s a 1 sec wait time between spamming backstab.

Unlike the rest of the classes who, if their skill gets blocked/dodged, you don’t get it back and it goes on full cooldown.

sorudo.9054:

ether you can’t play necro’s that well or you live under a rock because i do allot better with a GS necro then i do with my warrior and she is full beserker….

lol, you are adorable.

Where in hell are you seeing greatsword necros in raids, spvp, or a greatsword necro being better than a zerker warrior with a greatsword+mace/shield?

You people are the reason it took 3 years to get DPS meters in this game. No clue.

Dr Pierce.3594:

I used to have 150 AR, but I’m down to 143 AR because no infusion spot on amulet. Now I can’t do certain level on fractals.
Anet, what is this?

Just buy the AR potion from the fractal mastery vendor, it’s dirt cheap.

Lazze.9870:

I read the moa basic attack range and thought, “finally, they’re adding smokescale range to other melee pets”. But nope, just the moa. Why not just flat out make this the standard melee pet range in one patch? They did some feline changes, so I’m already assuming the felines aren’t getting that range. Why not?

The added damage to the axe aa doesn’t justify the removal of a bounce. I’m not using pigs – period – until they are overhauling them. Hunter’s Call buff is fine, but the warhorn trait is still crap. Canine and Drake cd reductions was needed, but again, no range buff. Funny thing is, QZ cd reduction for one of my pvp builds may be one of the more exiting changes.

But I didn’t expect anything. Looks more like a QoL patch.

Well, we’ve been on QoL patches throughout the entire xpac if not most of the game’s existence lol.

I’ve resigned to knowing they balance around spvp and spvp only. PvE and WvW are a side thought.

How long for your developers to “let things settle” and realize that ranger greatsword and shortbow have been garbage for 4 years and necromancer greatsword is garbage in all game modes?

You actually nerfed ranger mainhand axe effectively for no reason, as if it could be possible to make the weapon’s Ricochet any worse.

What the hell is the point of PvE/PvP splits when you only apply them when they affect PvP and not the other way around?

It doesn’t even look like you people even bother to balance PvE DPS performance outside low hanging fruits like ele:

Guardian scepter is doing more DPS than guardian mainhand sword. That is laughable PvE balance.

Sadrien.3470:

Zenith.7301:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

You people are so pathetically misinformed.

Guardian only behind ele, thief, rev, and engineer.

It is ahead of mesmer, necro, warrior, and ranger.

Stop crying. Your hammer rotation is braindead and nets you 29k DPS, way ahead of power ranger’s 18k DPS or mesmer’s 13k DPS.

Wrong! 34k scepter rotation now Lel.

Let them cry more, though. About their poor 29-34k DPS while other classes are only doing a third of their DPS.

cranos.5913:

I honestly didn’t test enough to make sure but it seems hammer 1 spam is still the way to go. At the very least mighty blow being affected by quickness didn’t seem to have much of an effect and I was quite consistently getting 1k dps lower than with just aa-ing.

The typical old GS sw/t-fc does have an increased dps but still seems quite a bit worse than hammer spam.

If anything beats the hammer spam it’s prob a sword – scepter build.

In any case I’d keep my eyes on reddit for the next couple of days. I’m quite sure guilds like qT will post their new benchmarks this week.

Zenith.7301:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

You people are so pathetically misinformed.

Guardian only behind ele, thief, rev, and engineer.

It is ahead of mesmer, necro, warrior, and ranger.

Stop crying. Your hammer rotation is braindead and nets you 29k DPS, way ahead of power ranger’s 18k DPS or mesmer’s 13k DPS.

There’s nothing to be misinformed about here. While we’re ahead of chrono, druid and warrior they bring so much more to the table than guardian ever did support-wise. Furthermore a target that only stands still so we can overlap symbols is rather rare in high end PvE making these tests very unreliable compared to actual dps in fights. Necro DPS is also not very representative as it doesn’t factor in minions staying alive longer due to group heals or bouncing epis or condi transfers or the thorn rune stacks and actually pulls ahead quite a bit depending on the boss.

I’m also not really sure what to make of your “stop crying” and “braindead rotation” in the same point. Isn’t the hammer 1 braindead spam alone enough to actually complain about? As if that’s actually an enjoyable rotation lmao.

The only thing your post proves here is that we were the lowest DPS class of the pure dps classes as again, the class’ support is completely obsolete atm. Daredevil which is #2 on your list was in fact in the same exact spot in the meta => not wanted. IDK how it is now yet, but as for the previous meta your post is extremely shortsighted.

You’re not a pure DPS class. Guardian is not DPS, stop being a dolt. So much more utility? Other than rev only guardian can bring perma prot, and nobody else brings aegis or the projectile destruction uptimes of a guardian specced for consecrations or avenger shield (not even mesmer).

If any raid mechanic also involved stability, guardian is the only class with group stability as well.

Guardian is a defensive utility class. You rolled the wrong class if you wanted a primary DPS class, it’s even there at the Vanilla GW2 release AMA’s, where developers have constantly stated guardian has less offense as a result of better defensive capabilities for the group.

It’s not the game’s fault most of this content is so braindead that group defense is unimportant now.

It’s the developer’s fault for developing content where the only defense you need is dodging isnd the odd lunar impact from a druid.

Guardian should have gotten the healing spec, anyways, not druid. It’s ironic that they gave a better longbow and traps to guardian and then support and heals to a ranger. What a joke.

Vyrulisse.1246:

Makes me wonder how in the heck this got past testing. I noticed it within minutes of trying to use it.

Because they don’t test crap.

In case you didn’t notice, they don’t have public test realms like evry other godkitten MMO to test patches and garner player feedbakc before releasing said changes live.

anduriell.6280:

StickerHappy.8052:

USELESS THREAD

The biggest ranger feedback/rework thread only served 1 trait change which was enlargement.

I do not know bout you guys but I give up on the devs. So much potential of the game lost like falling sand, As fast as I pick it up, It runs away through my clutching hands.

Call me Elitist or Over Expecting, I do not care. All the changes in the notes can be done in 1 month. and yet we wait 4 months for it.

Sorry guys, we tried.

In this cases i hate to be right but i told you so. It is not the first time we do this, it takes nowhere.
Enlargement is a bugfix not a change. A passive trait should not mess with your gameplay or we could be the only pringaos that had that premium experience

they moslty applied nerfs again.

Archon.6480:

No legendary for you!

All joking aside, nice job with the thread. It seems the Devs were more concerned with too much survivability in PvP across the board. I think that was their target. Maybe next time we’ll get some of these. All is not lost!

FYI: The hunters call update was taken from one of these threads way back when. That exact feature was asked for.

you must be new here, however the sustain wasn’t compromised in any other class.

• ele heal less but more often.
• mesmer got a lot of new procs like protection.
• warrior can accumulate invulnerability.
• revenant will copy its conditions to enemies.
• thief will steal more boons.

• And all those classes got a DPS increase in some area except the ele.

• The ranger got nerf i sustain and DPS.

Revenant did not get a DPS increase lol. It got a DPS nerf, do you people even read?

There was nothing but nerfs to revenant, a few tweaks to useless traits that still won’t be used because condi revenant is flaming garbage.

It’s a minuscule patch. I finished living story in less than 2 hours. It took almost a year to produce this? Seriously?

And for what. another DE farm map with boring hp sacks for the zerg to spam autoattacks at?

Could have saved yourselves development time on this useless map and made more instances/missions and fractals.

Not a single new armor/wep, instead the new armor canach is sporting is on the gem store. lolz.