I also imagine that feel my wrath gives quickness to your entire team. Necro shouts only give the boon to the necromancer, have longer cast times than most other shouts, and the rest of the necro shouts are pretty trash.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/“Nothing_Can_Save_You!”
Yeah so trash…Monsoon,
Make a revenant and spam jade winds every 10sec if you think chilled to the bone so op,
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jade_Windshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Might
Yeah, necro shouts are trash.
Nothing can save you has the same cd, a cast time on it, and only applies 5 vulnerability while warrior gets a 180 power boost passive (aka equivalent of 6 might stacks).
Signet of Might lasts 2 seconds longer to boot.
And that’s on necro, who does significantly less power damage than a warrior so I don’t know what terror you have about a necromancer being unblockable because any hit you would be afraid of being unblockable is also laughably slow and easily dodged.
Clearly you don’t pvp in any game mode if you don’t see the power of “nothing can save you!”. It’s probably in the top 10 utility skills anyone can bring to spvp on any class. Probably top 5.
Says the guy who stated that many warrior weaponskills are bad.
I said mediocre.
Learn to read.
L2 connotations. You couldn’t even bother to name which warrior weaponskills were mediocre in meta weapons.
I also imagine that feel my wrath gives quickness to your entire team. Necro shouts only give the boon to the necromancer, have longer cast times than most other shouts, and the rest of the necro shouts are pretty trash.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/“Nothing_Can_Save_You!”
Yeah so trash…Monsoon,
Make a revenant and spam jade winds every 10sec if you think chilled to the bone so op,
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jade_Windshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Might
Yeah, necro shouts are trash.
Nothing can save you has the same cd, a cast time on it, and only applies 5 vulnerability while warrior gets a 180 power boost passive (aka equivalent of 6 might stacks).
Signet of Might lasts 2 seconds longer to boot.
And that’s on necro, who does significantly less power damage than a warrior so I don’t know what terror you have about a necromancer being unblockable because any hit you would be afraid of being unblockable is also laughably slow and easily dodged.
Clearly you don’t pvp in any game mode if you don’t see the power of “nothing can save you!”. It’s probably in the top 10 utility skills anyone can bring to spvp on any class. Probably top 5.
Says the guy who stated that many warrior weaponskills are bad.
I also imagine that feel my wrath gives quickness to your entire team. Necro shouts only give the boon to the necromancer, have longer cast times than most other shouts, and the rest of the necro shouts are pretty trash.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/“Nothing_Can_Save_You!”
Yeah so trash…Monsoon,
Make a revenant and spam jade winds every 10sec if you think chilled to the bone so op,
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jade_Winds
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Might
Yeah, necro shouts are trash.
Nothing can save you has the same cd, a cast time on it, and only applies 5 vulnerability while warrior gets a 180 power boost passive (aka equivalent of 6 might stacks).
Signet of Might lasts 2 seconds longer to boot.
And that’s on necro, who does significantly less power damage than a warrior so I don’t know what terror you have about a necromancer being unblockable because any hit you would be afraid of being unblockable is also laughably slow and easily dodged.
Nothing can save you means you sacrificed a precious utility slot for a crappier version of might signet on a class that does less damage and can be pinballed around since their stunbreaks are on a 40-50 sec cd.
If you hit 2 opponents with the shout you get the equivalent of the signet, but the vulnerability is still inferior to the power passive.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
I seldom land this skill. Know why? People can file their taxes and run a marathon before it finishes casting. It has a big tell and has a long cast time. The Times I DO land it… Yes, the fight swings in my team’s favor, but if it does land… It’s kind of deserved.
I tried reaper, and I was able to land it no problem. Same cast time as chaotic release with less of a tell.
lolololol, your kittening toon screams CHILLED TO THE BONE when casting it.
I can’t believe you can’t have a thief, mesmer, or warrior daze/stun the crap out of the cast.
Almost everyone knows how op it is. Even necros know. It does so much in 1 skill, stun, stability, damage, chill, bleed, life steal. What other utility does so much on any class? Imahine if “Feel my wrath!” stun locked, damaged, and chilled you too.
I also imagine that feel my wrath gives quickness to your entire team. Necro shouts only give the boon to the necromancer, have longer cast times than most other shouts, and the rest of the necro shouts are pretty trash.
If only there was a condition that reduced healing
On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.
Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.
not to be that guy, but if that druid either popped SoS, or stunbreaks into evade/stealth they would take hardly any dmg.
i mean sure if you just stand there and eat damage like Goldilocks eating the bears breakfast yeah, a zerker amulet class will kill ya, but homes any good druid should live.
A 60 sec cd SoS is gonna do jackkitten when warrior 100b is every 6.5 seconds and their headbutt is 1/3 the cooldown at 20 second and skull crack is an 8 second cd.
It’s not like the druid even does enough damage to outDPS the passive healing of a warrior, so it’s a matter of waiting 20 seconds until the warrior can kill the ranger.
I’m not sure what type of druid build you’re running, but usually they lean to support or damage. a damage druid should have a fair chance at bursting the warrior down if they can time pet busts, SotW, LB 2 around the endure pains. a support druids job isn’t to 1v1 DPS classes. it has high team sustain and support, which warrior totally lacks, it’s a completely different type of build with different goals. warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.
sure it’s boring to wait out endure pain, but it’s not a big deal. furthermore if you’re playing a condi build endure pain is irrelevant. on the flipside, zerker stance is an issue for the condi build, but not for most power builds. so, since the immunities are only to one type of damage they are actually easy to deal with depending on the build you’re playing.
like, if I’m on a condi build ima just cc and condi all the way through 8 sec of endure pain, like why would i care about it?
shield block is no issue at all if you have unblockable skills.
lol, a power druid stands not even a remote chance against warrior. It has no sustained damage whatsoever, and all its damage is tied to easily telegraphed pet f2 and LB2, both of which are easily dodged.
And that’s assuming that for some reason the warrior isn’t running reflect on shield stance, which renders the ranger useless.
In case you haven’t noticed, warriors don’t just run one type of stance. They run both endure pain and zerker stance, so your condi druid is gonna be boned anyways.
I don’t understand why this is difficult for you. When BM (condi)/Spirit rangers were a thing, it was warriors who directly hardcountered these builds.
Druid exchanges even more damage for increased survival. You won’t hold the point alone against a warrior as a ranger, period.
The class with the best chance at that is probably a mesmer or really sharp thief who will lose the point but can beat the war 1v1 to recover it.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
If only there was a condition that reduced healing
On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.
Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.
not to be that guy, but if that druid either popped SoS, or stunbreaks into evade/stealth they would take hardly any dmg.
i mean sure if you just stand there and eat damage like Goldilocks eating the bears breakfast yeah, a zerker amulet class will kill ya, but homes any good druid should live.
A 60 sec cd SoS is gonna do jackkitten when warrior 100b is every 6.5 seconds and their headbutt is 1/3 the cooldown at 20 second and skull crack is an 8 second cd.
It’s not like the druid even does enough damage to outDPS the passive healing of a warrior, so it’s a matter of waiting 20 seconds until the warrior can kill the ranger.
Warrior melee is just oppressive because of the massive damage layered with several low cooldown cd paired with a class who has 10+ seconds of both physical and condi immunity, on top of shield block, ridiculous sustained healing, and to top it off has 3 stun breaks built in thanks to two endure pains, and the autotrigger on last stance giving them another on top of stability.
Remove Defy pain, reduce cd of endure pain to 40-45 second, and reduce duration of zerker stance to 5 seconds.
This layering of immunities in this game for such ridiculous amounts of time is what’s ruining the game.
Classes should choose between defense and offense. Defensive cooldowns shouldn’t turn into offensive cooldowns you can use to deal damage without retaliation.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
If only there was a condition that reduced healing
On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.
Zerker Stance , Endure Painx2. 12 seconds immunity to conditions on top of easy cleanse, 10 seconds of physical immunity with Defy Pain proc and Endure Pain, auto stun break with Last Stand on top of stacked stability.
And then of course there’s shield block and whirlwind if for some reason the warrior needs even more damage evasion.
Failing all that, 18k HP base health, highest base armor, and healing signet is the highest sustained healing in game.
Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.
y’all have got to remember that warrior was recently trash tier. i was a completely unvaible awful class.
AH is basically what brought warrior back to meta. so ya gotta be careful with nerfing it. because an overnerf would just make warrior trash again. i mean I know a number of you would like that because then warrior would be easy to beat and no-one would play it, but that’s not good for the health of the game.
personally I would reduce the radius of arc divider, or perhaps give it a wind up of sorts. making it harder to land will mean less damage, and less AH procs.
skull grinder is really easy to dodge right now, and isn’t that punishing on a power build. so I feel an arc divider nerf would be the best way to go.
shield is not an issue, any unlockable skill solves that issue easy. endure pain is irritating, but not if you’re playing a condi build, or if you can actually space out your damage (IE save cooldowns for after endure pain).
Warrior wasn’t trash. It’s been relevant if not oppressively dominant as GS/mace+shield in WvW roaming for years.
Warriors just love to whine to get their buffs and we’ve been through this cycle of crying about survival only to become juggernauts.
Warriors can either have kittened damage, CC, or sustain. They can’t have it all.
Stupid that people even dare suggest that people kite a warrior. How in hell is anyone who isn’t a thief or mesmer supposed to do that. Necro can’t kite a warrior, guardian can’t kite a warrior, ele can’t kite a warrior.
Warrior melee mobility is second only to thief. Except unlike thief they’re much more resistant to burst.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
i actually agree with OP i go full glass or Vit on my necro now…. if im going to die its due to chain CC not high damage.
I believe it to be the truth, an example for me is condition damage. On some classes I can get it as high as 1700 condition damage, some of those condis do not have extended durations but if you get damaged by conditions with that much power behind them, it really hurts. This is why Chrono just runs carrion with scavenging, it has around 1500 which is a very high number for condition damage and it hurts, you can feel what you invested.
With toughness, there is no reason a DH, warrior, thief, etc. should be hitting 6-8k on a heavy class with 4700 toughness lol. If someone wanted to give up other stats such as power, precision or ferocity for vitality and toughness, they shouldn’t be getting bursted as if they were running marauder.
Warrior, DH, and thief have incredibly high base damage values on their attacks, and their autoattack damage is among the highest of the classes as well so they can pressure out your cooldowns even with autoattacks unlike a mesmer who tickles you once his shatters are down.
Thief PvE rotation is basically autoattack spam in between bounding dodge because their autoattack DPS is virtually higher than any of their initiative spenders on staff. With daggers the only initiative spender used is CnD to get a backstab in, and the vast majority of the damage is still autoattacks.
You don’t.
Warrior is king supreme of 1v1 alongside thief. They have too much sustained damage+ burst and shorter cd damage evasion skills.
I don’t know whose idea it was to give warriors 10 seconds worth of damage immunity, part of that being an auto-trigger on low health, on top of condition immunity and some of the highest healing per second while in an offensive build.
Warrior weaponskills also have ridiculously low cd’s.
So you’re kinda screwed because their autos hit you hard, their 6 sec cd skills hit you even harder, and they have double your base HP pool so their tolerance for burst is greater than yours.
I love how people say warrior has telegraphs when it has double the HP pool of a berzerker ele, and berzerker ele has far worse delayed, hard to land telegraphs that only hit for 2/3 the damage and they don’t have remotely the sustained DPS of a warrior in pvp.
Warriors have incredibly short cooldowns on all their weaponskills, their bursts heal them substantially on top of their already overtuned heals, and their stances give them long periods of immunity to several damage types despite being the class with the highest HP pool combined with highest base armor rating and the best sustained heal skill in the game.
At least guardians can be spiked down due to their low base health and their heals are on fairly lengthy cooldowns.
Warriors do more damage sustained than a guardian, and are more resilient to burst to boot by virtue of their native health pool and access to immunities.
This game has too many classes with active immunities/evasions that also allow them to build extremely offensive.
Warrior, DH, and thief are the prime offenders. They have so many immunity/block/evasion tools that they rarely need to invest on some toughness because of their high baseline survival tools.
This in turn make the classes who do not have such wealth of active immunities be forced into bunker builds to cope with these three classes.
The problem as well is that there is no stat to amplify toughness the same way ferocity and precision amplify Power, or condition damage scales with condi duration and precision procs.
Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.
And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.
Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.
Hahahahahahaha
Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.
Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.
That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.
> Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class.
I do not see how one can hold that opinion. Sure, rangers that do not use the druid spec are useless, and even those who use the druid spec without a focus on support are useless, but saying ranger is a useless large scale WvW class is silly. Druid has the highest burst healing in the game, which is very useful in large scale fights when damage spikes bring down players to near death. Druid also can provide condition cleanse, stealth access, superspeed, sustained healing, CC, and can do fine out of party if played correctly to focus healing on those who are low. Druid has unique utility, depending on the build, where it provides powerful offensive buffs in the form of Spotter, Grace of the Land, fury, glyph of empowerment or even frost spirit. Druid has access to a moving water field, a water field that absorbs projectiles and shoots out healing “bolts”, and if taken another waterfield that lasts for 10 seconds and removes a condition every 2 seconds while applying regeneration (Although the 10k+ burst heal from glyph is usually better here :P) I just do not see how druid can be described as a useless WvW class. It provides the best burst healing ingame, along with sustained healing, condition cleanse, CC, powerful offensive buffs, blast finishers (Ancestral Grace/LI/COTW), etc..
Your best burst healing depends on lunar impact which is a long cast on a class that doesn’t have much access to stability in the middle of a zerg clash that’s spamming CC all over you.
An auramancer front/midline support ele build provides much better group protection and burst healing, and does better damage to boot.
Frost Spirit and spirits in general are useless in large scale WvW, they die pretty much immediately with no aoe protection. Spirits are just a worse version of warrior banners.
Availability of water fields is easily made available by the many healing rains the countless staff eles people bring can provide, assuming the frontline eles didn’t provide that waterfield themselves.
Druid healing is not bad, but it’s virtually all you bring besides grace of the land. And largescale WvW with its massive damage spikes is more proactive mitigation than reactive mitigation.
A good mesmer is a boon to any group with alacrity, quickness and all the utility they have. There’s just one problem, I rarely see good mesmers in fractals. Most are people who don’t seem to know at all what wells, focus #4 and quickness are about. And of course, quite often they camp GS in addition to the aforementioned issues.
Sure, but there have to be DPS classes to prop up to begin with. You are really going to feel the mesmer’s abysmal DPS if you get a group with a druid, mesmer, power necro, and ele without might to prop him up.
The other problem is mesmer tools have skill cap, especially iWarden usage and continuum split, on top of the fact that mobs are wont to disrupt your combos by one shotting the clones unlike raid bosses who rarely target clones.
A guardian can achieve reflect and protection/aegis for the group while also providing quickness bursts, only missing alacrity but being massively easier to play and bringing much, much more personal DPS.
Only groups I avoid are comps which clearly have no damage or boon generation.
1 necro is good for condi manipulation, but I don’t want to join a group where I don’t have 12+ might most of the time.
I also don’t want to join a group with a mesmer and druid in them. The damage is going to suck unless you have 2 eles and a warrior in them.
Unfortunately Anet doesn’t balance for PvE, they just do it for spvp and PvE is the side game they use to milk cash out of PvE players to fund their crappy spvp esports scene.
The classes are not balanced enough to the point where you can bring whatever class and have all your bases covered for similar performance outcomes.
Some classes are dramatically better at dealing damage, and some classes have dramatically better utility in boon generation. You can’t go without those.
The problem is we are THE only decent healer profession in the game.
No. Not only is that not true, but the very fact that people word it as if they don’t kittening realize that we’re the only class that currently have a healing elite spec, which is obviously why we are a strong candidate for a healer role (or more correctly as far as PvE goes, booster role). How about you just relax and wait for them to release the next elite specs? Some other class will get something healing related, ranger most certainly will get something damage related. No, it may not shift the most effective meta comp, but its gonna give people options. None of the PvE content in this game requires strict meta comps to quickly get through it.
The longbow ranged dps role for PvE that people keep crying about will never be viable in a game that forces you to play close to receive party buffs anyway. And projectile skills got way too many counters in PvP at the moment.
And lastly, the druid is based on the existing lore. Regenerating and healing rivers and waters was always a part of the Maguuma lore in the first game. Whatever ideas from other sources people have about a druid is irrelevant. This stupid shapeshifting ideas people got? We already forgot how useless transform skills in this game is? How bad anet is at designing kits you swap in and out of unless its a dedicated avatar/form or just a complete copy of the engineer?
Water staff ele is perfectly viable as a healer as well. I have no doubt engineers and guardians could also find a build to do so.
The issue is, those classes have higher DPS ceilings with their builds and they lose more DPS by going healer specs than ranger does.
Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.
And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.
Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.
Hahahahahahaha
Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.
Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.
That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.
Shadowstep like most thief utilities are overloaded with benefits.
Shadowstep is a double stunbreak, a teleport, and a condi removal all in one. Another utility is a block that also offers a stunbreak and is a knockdown. All their heals do some secondary feature without cost — one heal stealths and gives regen, the other refills endurance, and another heals, breaks roots/snares and evades.
Other classes would kill for a utility that could break stun and condi clear in one. Let alone a teleport.
Elementalist had Lightning Flash gutted to not even be a stunbreaker and is basically a teleport with a crappy damage component that only teleports you once, doesn’t break stun, and doesn’t clear condi baseline.
Can’t believe thieves even have the nerve to say their utilities are bad. Shadow step, shadow refuge, smoke powder, Block, disrupting daggers, and shadow trap. Not including their signets are some of the best ones in the game.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
if u think condi evade thief has no counter u havent seen a good symbolic DH
And clearly no one has brought up DH’s or warriors as being problem classes either.
It’s not fun when 3 classes are so vastly ahead of the rest.
there are plenty of non kittens that either stalemate or farm maygi when he pushes far. for example pretty much any esl player, naru snaffled hitzer mone jeff mobs edison are the people that i can name off the top of my head or have played with recently. the only person ive seen straight up die 1v1 to maygi was kittening halfdevil lmao
Tfw she’s beaten all these people at-least once. Nevertheless this build isn’t invincible, everyone needs to just adapt and learn how it works. DH, Warrior, Scrapper, Staff Acro/ Any type of Acro Teef will all counter it.
The way to beat a thief is bring another thief or some equally broken class like warrior.
“We didn’t like BM ranger having so many dodges or vanilla thief having feline grace, so we nerfed them; and then we decided for the xpac to give that version on steroids to one class while upping its damage and mobility to boot.”
(edited by Zenith.7301)
I prefer toughness because Necromancer has abysmal HP replenishment. Increasing my HP pool does not have the same impact as say an elementalist or warrior or druid who can replenish their health pool so easily.
Base health for necro is so high anyways, I’d rather reduce the incoming burst.
The biggest counter classes to necro are power builds anyways.
I mean, you’ll still get crapped on by thieves and warriors, but at least it will give you more time to stall in case someone can join the fight with you and +1 the opponent or you can make it to the castle gate.
Either way you cut it, necro is an awful roaming class. It has no disengage or HP replenishment, so you just get worn down by classes with disengages and HP replenishment who can reset on you.
Or in the case of warriors they just demolish you through the CC.
Necro is a class to be babysat by the zerg or group. Ironic, really. When that incompetent Chapman was still working for the company and he was the initial necro designer, he claimed that necro would be the last caster to go down in a fight as they were very hard to put down.
Make the skills of Weapons good, so that the cost is justified. Or get rid of them.
The expensive skills are the good skills in part because of their lower cooldown. Drop the hammer is an example of a skill that would probably have double the recharge on any other class.
Except for warrior, who has incredibly low cooldowns on all their weaponskills.
Or thief, who’s also the same.
Alot of warrior weapon skills are mediocre.
lololololol, show me one mediocre mainhand sword, greatsword, or longbow warrior skill.
Make the skills of Weapons good, so that the cost is justified. Or get rid of them.
The expensive skills are the good skills in part because of their lower cooldown. Drop the hammer is an example of a skill that would probably have double the recharge on any other class.
Except for warrior, who has incredibly low cooldowns on all their weaponskills.
Or thief, who’s also the same.
now you guys think aa should regen energy lol. it makes more sense to lower some of the weapon skill energy costs, or make those less used skills more powerful.
Why not, it would add energy management to the class other than “Use your skills, now you’re empty, swap legend” that is going right now.
I don’t even know why energy regen for the revenant is tied to swapping legends to begin with.
Part of the reason why warrior/thief is more contained in spvp is because they can’t jack up their survival the way they do while still maintaining incredibly high damage bonuses.
Defensive stacked classes don’t do “incredibly high damage”
WvW meta builds do well under half of the damage output of a optimized build. The problem is that classes base health in this game is so low that you don’t need anywhere near optimized DPS to blow people up.
A warrior in knights/marauder is gonna do more damage and be tankier to me than some pitiful greatsword necro in zerker gear.
I could play a zerker dagger ele and not even get around to doing damage because my damage is all air autos and burning retreat and I’d be dead by the third air auto to some warrior in knights who turned around and chunked half my health in two hits.
There are simply classes who can get away with more offensive stats since they have greater baseline defense and a greater spike damage sponge by virtue of higher base health pool or better recovery tools.
You also bring up HP pools as an issue, but in spvp the TTK is longer because crit damage is capped at 60% crit damage bonus, people can’t reach 100%+ crit damage and almost guaranteed crits, they can’t reach ridiculous amounts of condi duration or use food to up their damage even further. They can’t just easily farm mobs/uplevels for bloodlust stacks and they die more frequently (the punishment to a thief for disengaging is losing the point, a weakness that doesn’t exist in WvW).
You completely and utterly misunderstood what I said.
WvW builds do crap damage. Go look up what a raid composition does in DPS, and compare it to what a equal sized WvW composition does in DPS.
PvP builds are not high damage in any way shape for form. People think they are high damage because the base health pools in this game are hilariously low. That is the point I’m making.
Fair enough, although I’d say most roaming thief builds are running pretty similar to zerker PvE thief, only difference being some trait choices to combat condi.
I think treating WvW to not be like PvE and placing the spvp stat caps would go a long way in making people not feel like they’re blowing up because a thief is critting you for 10k+ damage whereas in spvp a thief crits you for 6k at best and pays the price for the wealth of disengages and easy access to stealth by losing the point.
Warrior is a similar problem, too easy access to invulnerabilities/damage avoidance tools while maintaining relatively high damage.
buff Reaper Shroud so it’s actually a DPS form you build up life form for.
You would have to more or less double the power damage modifiers on Reaper Shroud then. Reaper Shroud only clocks in at about a 18k~ benchmark.
It needs to happen, even if only for PvE or reduced effect in PvP.
Shroud takes time to build and is a resource just like adrenaline or energy, and yet its use in PvP is as a glorified turtle form that costs you DPS. No other class even pays such a substantial amount of DPS to gain access to defenses.
And it’s not like DS/RS are free, necromancer heals are utter garbage precisely because DS/RS exist.
Shroud should come with a damage payoff, you pull out a big godkitten ed scythe and it turns out it only tickles.
i agree with this, power necro needs a huge buff especially when it lacks in every other area such as blocks/evades/invulns/buffs/utility
Remove the ridiculous aftercast on Gravedigger and buff its damage, buff Reaper Shroud so it’s actually a DPS form you build up life form for.
Change Shivers of dread garbage minor to +10% extra damage to chilled/crippled targets.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Were those nerfs only in Spvp or were they also in WvW? Last I played I felt really good roaming as rev.
What are the good roaming classes now?
Last nerfs stayed in PvP so Rev is still decent for WvW roaming.
If you’re in a group yes. If you’re solo, well good luck with the abundance of thieves and condition roamers
At least with thieves I’m loaded on marauders and cavalier weapons/trinkets so I can pretty much tank them on my way to the castle.
But being loaded on conditions isn’t fun ;(
Part of the reason why warrior/thief is more contained in spvp is because they can’t jack up their survival the way they do while still maintaining incredibly high damage bonuses.
Defensive stacked classes don’t do “incredibly high damage”
WvW meta builds do well under half of the damage output of a optimized build. The problem is that classes base health in this game is so low that you don’t need anywhere near optimized DPS to blow people up.
A warrior in knights/marauder is gonna do more damage and be tankier to me than some pitiful greatsword necro in zerker gear.
I could play a zerker dagger ele and not even get around to doing damage because my damage is all air autos and burning retreat and I’d be dead by the third air auto to some warrior in knights who turned around and chunked half my health in two hits.
There are simply classes who can get away with more offensive stats since they have greater baseline defense and a greater spike damage sponge by virtue of higher base health pool or better recovery tools.
You also bring up HP pools as an issue, but in spvp the TTK is longer because crit damage is capped at 60% crit damage bonus, people can’t reach 100%+ crit damage and almost guaranteed crits, they can’t reach ridiculous amounts of condi duration or use food to up their damage even further. They can’t just easily farm mobs/uplevels for bloodlust stacks and they die more frequently (the punishment to a thief for disengaging is losing the point, a weakness that doesn’t exist in WvW).
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Of course he dismisses WvW because WvW highlights all that is wrong with these high mobility, spammy spike damage classes and classes with stealth/high immunity uptimes like thief and warrior and engineer that every roamer and their mother loves to play.
Ehhhhh to be fair you really can’t do anything but dismiss WvW balance problems because the mode has no small scale fight balance
You could start by placing the same stat limitations that exist in spvp, cap crit damage and condi duration/duration reduction stacking that comes via gear/food.
Part of the reason why warrior/thief is more contained in spvp is because they can’t jack up their survival the way they do while still maintaining incredibly high damage bonuses. This would also touch eles/guardians in large scale by reducing the amount of damage you can stack and guardian/warrior frontlines wouldn’t be able to push out as much damage in their defensive builds.
Pretty sure if said mesmer and ele were glass built like the thief is then they would be pumping out higher numbers but they are built for team fights.
No they wouldn’t, because they’d be hardcountered by glass thief/warrior immediately and would spend most of the fight dying to the thief class which has more instantaneous, less telegraphed damage, and far more mobility/disengage.
No other glass builds exist because thief/warrior/rev (nerfed to irrelevance now) farms pretty much any glass build. They have way better defenses and engage/disengage than any glass ele/ranger/mesmer/engineer could dream of.
There’s a reason ele can only exist as support and mesmer is a crappy version of thief as a roamer. There’s a reason druid only rolls support and engineer/necro are only condi.
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Don’t worry, thief will still be king of WvW roaming anyways.
Raids are limited by the combat in GW2 itself. It doesn’t have the depth GW1 did.
Some classes easily fart all the necessary boons for the group with little effort required instead of requiring frequent, smart use of combo fields and multiple people to stack 25 might and keep permanent fury up.
Same goes for debuffs, when one class can keep vulnerability maxed, another class can cover boons, all you worry about after is stacking the highest DPS class.
DPS balance in this game is atrocious as well, so only a few classes get to function as damage dealers while other classes are stuck in support boon bot builds.
It also doesn’t help Anet doesn’t want to make up its mind. They didn’t want a dedicated healer, until they wasted Ranger’s elite spec on being specifically a healer, and then when it became a dominant healer because it is an elite spec entirely centered around healing with no good competitively offensive options, Anet nerfed druid some more so they would have to pigeonhole themselves even more into healing gear to compensate.
They made chronomancer a purely support build since mesmer DPS is trash, and then they nerf the support contributions without compensating the mesmer in personal DPS.
Nerf revenant damage under the excuse that they offered plenty of group support, then proceed to nerf that group support as well while leaving DPS the same.
Necromancer for once achieves some relevance in its only good build, the condi build that requires a lot of gimmicks to merit bringing over yet another elementalist or thief, and they go and nerf condimancer so it can go sit in the corner of mediocrity alongside its pathetic power greatsword builds.
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Sales should go in trade chat. Using the LFG tool to spam should trigger removal with enough reports from people.
I think autoattack chains should regen energy to be honest.
Rev staff in PvE has outrageous costs, all its damage is tied to skill 2 and its utility is in bar break but all its skills outside the auto cost ridiculous amounts of energy.
Ranger and Druid damage is pretty low, and pets hardly contribute because they struggle to hit moving targets or are dead… so how do we fix this?
If a player doesn’t want low damage on Druid then that player shouldn’t run full clerics gear. Oh I wonder who runs full Clerics Druid? Just saying.
Also I have seen upwards of 20k+ Mauls in WvW, Rangers can build for Damage.
Is that your assumption about my gear?
Lol you keep using the silly maul reference…
The maul reference is true though, it’s from a build similar to Signet Thief, you have to build for the damage, I’m sorry if you can’t figure out how.
And how I have seen you talk about you trying to Do support role in zergs and complain and want Druids to be Healing gods in WvW it’s not hard to assume you either run clerics or nomads.
Edit:
Added screenshot of Mail for 24k and added Link to video.
Getting hit by a maul is like getting hit by a warrior’s eviscerate, the person is BAD. Except it’s even worse because unlike warrior ranger doesn’t have a multitude of short cd stuns/roots to secure a maul with, and eviscerate hits for those numbers often while maul builds are a one trick pony with no sustained damage whatsoever if the burst fails.
Reaper is just a garbage version of warrior/rev/guardian.
Completely selfish class whose utility to the group doesn’t scale up the way boon/cc heavy classes like guardian/warrior/rev do in WvW frontlines.
And the survivability is abysmal because it requires you go into shroud which guts your damage because shroud damage is pitiful compared to your weaponskills.
Meanwhile a warrior pops a few stances and does his ridiculous amounts of damage as do revs with their damage absorptions.
Moreover, unlike a guardian who has a good ranged power weapon to retaliate against kiting classes, the necro has a kitten stain axe with a terrible autoattack and all its damage and life force generation tied to a easily interrupted/dodged channeled cast.
With no meaningful ranged aoe to boot for the poke wars or dealing with stealth.
It’s why necro will only excel as a condi bomb/manipulation class.
Necro also has easily the worst heals in the game and for being an “attrition” class it’s one of the classes with the worst staying power because they can’t replenish their health pools easily and frequently like others due to the crappy damage sponge that is death shroud.
If you think developers implement any changes suggested by forums, you haven’t played this game long enough.
They don’t even have public test realms to put out changes for feedback in case they need to change/revert them.
They just announce their class changes the day before the patch hits or the same day the patch hits, and you have to swallow whatever they force on you.
Great to have a dev in the forums. Been seeing more anet in wvw as well.
He is not a dev. He’s a QA embed, basically like Gaile, he holds little sway on balancing decisions by a dev team.
The devs have said it’s not their job to communicate to the community, which is why they hire community reps and send lower ranking employees to deliver their canned messages about whatever changes for a patch.
Many of the devs that were here for GW2’s release are not even here anymore.
Chapman, Peters, they’re gone.
Meh I’m a dev and I hate talking with clients. Try working for marketing guys. They want to talk on the phone for hours, piling on work and never letting you actually get anything done.
Just having someone from anet around is a good thing. Actual dev team hours are probably better spent on the game anyway.
Yeah, I bet. That lack of communication has totally allowed for pets to hit moving targets, for power necro let alone greatsword to be a thing, and it totally didn’t take them over 3 years just so their PvE content didn’t obliterate pet/minion classes out of relevance (which still happens in WvW) because they pepper combat systems with omnipresent aoe, and somehow the strongest aoe classes are also the strongest single target ones since apparently aoe attacks don’t have a penalty in this game.
Oh, wait, it didn’t. Go figure, developers don’t necessarily know better than the people who spend unholy amount of hours playtesting builds and classes.
I think we’re talking the difference between taking a daredevil and not taking one, or not taking a revenant anymore.
What about the difference between taking necro and condi ranger? Or, worse, Necro and ele? Still so insignificant?
For the threshold to clear a phase? Still possible not bringing 3-4 eles. Of course you have interminably bad builds like power ranger or power mesmer that can’t remotely put out more than 20k DPS reliably (and both don’t offer much in aoe), but they have alternative builds that can offer enough DPS needed for the DPS check.
It’s just that revenant and thief are the most obvious cases of people being idiots about bringing a class that can perfectly contribute to a kill because like sheeple they read somewhere that you MUST have 3-4 eles or only a druid healer, otherwise they’re not going to beat a boss that can effectively be undermanned.
We’re no longer at the point where people are asked to bring good builds, but we’ve long been past the points where entire classes are marginalized despite having viable builds, just because they’re not the top build+class combo.
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Is everyone blind? It’s freaking cmc. You know, weeb streamer extraordinaire?
He works for Anet now. I mean he was never some pro PvPer, but he’s probably still better than 90% of the people on this board.
Which still doesn’t change the fact he’s not a dev. Powerr was also a streamer/competitive pvp guy who got temporarily hired by Anet (and then moved with QA firm to other projects).
Great to have a dev in the forums. Been seeing more anet in wvw as well.
He is not a dev. He’s a QA embed, basically like Gaile, he holds little sway on balancing decisions by a dev team.
The devs have said it’s not their job to communicate to the community, which is why they hire community reps and send lower ranking employees to deliver their canned messages about whatever changes for a patch.
Many of the devs that were here for GW2’s release are not even here anymore.
Chapman, Peters, they’re gone.
Don’t worry, PS warriors will still be OP at might stacking anyways.
The primary burst of each really is the deciding factor in most cases. If a thief misses a steal, the the fight takes a serious turn against them. Essence Sap is extremely nasty from a thief, and denying them all the benefits of steal, usually healing, initiative regen, endurance recovery and an easy interrupt, can mean a quick fight.
Kind of hard to do when the skill is kittening instant. And in the thief’s case, they can just keep resetting until the wind blows their way or they run you out of cd’s.
The fractals, dungeons and raids can all be clared by any team comp with knowledge of the scenario and boss mechanics. Period.
Nope. Dungeons and fractals? Yeah, possibly, even likely, depending on the skill of the group. Raids? Nope. Not on all bosses anyway. There are some minimum requirements there that not all group comps would fulfill.
Is that an objectively bad thing? there is optimal, there is suboptimal-but-viable, there is reasonable and there is unreasonable. Is it too high a bar to ask people to run at least reasonable builds?
I don’t think so. I think the base line of have a healer, enough cc and meager dps needed to beat enrage isn’t a very constrciting paragdigm. That’s all it takes to qualify as reasonable. If that is too restricting for you I’d suggest that raids just aren’t for you the same way ESL pvp isn’t for me.
People run viable builds but nobody wants them because everyone and their mother just blindly follows elitists guides that most can’t even execute properly.
Makes sense to me. If you can’t run a good build properly why should I expect you’ll do any bether running a trash build? I’LL take my chances with bad player on good build vs bad player on bad build.
I think we’re talking the difference between taking a daredevil and not taking one, or not taking a revenant anymore.
That’s how extreme it gets, not the build. Same as people kittening out an ele for running mainly D/WH over staff, newsflash it’s still OP DPS compared to most other classes as is daredevil DPS. But somehow everyone has to have their 3-4 eles or the run is going to be a disaster.
Let’s not pretend like people don’t have unreasonable requirements of raids that essentially have been cleared on the first week of their release.
Not unique of GW2, though. Wildstar had their medic/warrior stackers and WoW has their fotm class stacking people who reject X class when x class can deal the required DPS to make a phase simply because Y class does 20% higher DPS.
It’s one thing when you’re in a world race guild….but this game doesn’t even come close to having that with its first batch of raids being beat within a week of their release and only a couple of guilds actually competing.
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You people keep debating this topic as if Anet has ever shown any history of listening to forum feedback on the collateral damage their PvP centric changes have on PvE.
The irony of this statement is real.
The same patch the people are complaining about was filled with reverts to ele dagger due to heavy handed PvP based nerfs.
But yes clearly it does take anet 8 months to admit they screwed up and revert bad changes.
Those are not revert changes. They were changes to dagger because ele in general is doing rather badly in spvp.
Almost all of those dagger changes are reverts from when they gutted DD due to its synergy with Cele builds.
Builds not used in PvE, but PvP. As I said, spvp/WvW logic behind their balance changes.
A buff to impale and reduction to cd of burning speed isn’t going to change much of the standing dagger has in PvE.
You people keep debating this topic as if Anet has ever shown any history of listening to forum feedback on the collateral damage their PvP centric changes have on PvE.
The irony of this statement is real.
The same patch the people are complaining about was filled with reverts to ele dagger due to heavy handed PvP based nerfs.
But yes clearly it does take anet 8 months to admit they screwed up and revert bad changes.
Those are not revert changes. They were changes to dagger because ele in general is doing rather badly in spvp.
You people keep debating this topic as if Anet has ever shown any history of listening to forum feedback on the collateral damage their PvP centric changes have on PvE.
They just erased revenants out of existence and power necromancer was garbage, so they had to go condi, and now they don’t even have a competitive build.
Druids who wanted an offensive option could run offensive gear, they nuked that too by pigeonholing druid into healing power gear to benefit from its class mechanisms and traits which don’t have any true offensive alternatives.
These people simply don’t care. It is very likely they don’t even read these forums; instead they just send Gaile or Grouch to occasionally deal with you because they’re too important to come into the forums and explain their changes.
Plus the fact you’re running a ridiculously niche build just to have a chance against one class, as if a warrior catches you with a hammer, you might as well just die, and that goes for many other classes where having a hammer is to be a sitting duck.
Full zerker trinkets/full burst builds works best against thieves.
Mainly use Hammer that’s pretty much all your going to need. Shiro’s Elite stuns them for 3 seconds letting you autoattack them easily or letting you switch to sword and press 3 to finish them off.
What kind of thief allows you to land a shiro elite on them?