Then we see the ele shouts which do the same amount no matter how many targets they hit
why is, of all things, this seen as something negative? we finally have some more (defensive) stuff that scales with the number of enemies. thats one of the few positive things about our shouts.
Because it means the shouts are garbage on single target, aka while roaming or against a PvE boss.
A skill shouldn’t have a required number of enemies to justify its use.
berk thief>berk necro. With thief you either gear to outlast or you go home.
Thieves are the apex predator of the berserker specs, with mesmers now giving them some competition but a well played thief still has an edge on the mesmer.
Actual tl;dr: I played ranger exclusively for a long time. Then I made a different class and discovered that in the specific content I want to do it’s better/easier. Plsbuffranger QQ.
Ranger has always suffered in dungeons/fractals compared to warriors/eles especially, this is nothing new. The ranger is still arguably one of the best (if not the best) class for most open world content. Ranger is also incredibly strong in WvW and PvP if played well. You played ranger pretty exclusively, it seems like, and then the one time you tried something new immediately decided that because it was better in that content there was a massive problem.
Open World PvE lolololololololol
Staff ele says hi, it’s a better longbow ranger with fields, far better damage and aoe, and group support.
No. This game is already gold centric enough. To hell with gold.
You should have to do game content to gain rewards tied to it. Allowing people to use their wallet to skip doing content is bad.
What this game needs is more tokens, and less RNG and gold grinds.
I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.
Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached
I look at the Tempest traitline, not even those warhorn niche and redundant skills, and I can’t even find traits I would be using in serious PvE content.
4.5 sec channels is a DPS LOSS. Overloads need to charge in the background while you can use your own skills.
Nobody will overload fire or air in PvE because water and earth autoattacks are terrible in damage compared to fire/air.
Measly healing and occasional, long cd CC will never be worth losing damage in PvE.
All those might stacks are worthless in a world of Phalanx Strength warriors keeping permanent 25 might stacks for the group, and eles can already lay fire fields with lava font so their group can blast might stacks for easy might cap.
They obviously design with PvP in mind, is all I’m going to say.
This game’s PvE devs is a ghost town. They don’t care.
The problem as well with their whole boon centric approach to Tempest is that boons are already being farted out like candy by warriors, guardians, and ele already.
This was the fatal mistake of GW2 by discarding GW1’s model and going for this version of conditions and boons which means the effects overlap instead of being unique effects exclusive to skills and classes.
What’s the point of 3 stacks of might when a PS warrior can keep up 25 for the group. What’s the point of fury when ele blasting fire fields with warrior’s FGJ keeps perma fury. They need to nerf fire field blasting and fury/might stacking so might/fury is an actual commodity you have to work to build up and maintain instead of passively and easily keeping maxed.
These skills are so niche for the sake of PvP, and the traits are REALLY bad, as in purely pvp centric traits with no benefit for PvE.
Not that ele needed to gain much considering they dwarf every other class in PvE, but it makes the specialization a lot less exciting.
My suggestion for overloads is to allow them to channel by themselves while you can use skills of your own. That way, an opponent can still CC you and interrupt the overload, but the channeling happens in the background and doesn’t prevent such a dps loss since you are able to use your skills as normal.
But, yeah, when they mentioned cyclone being good with lightning rod, I just thought “they don’t seem to realize how bad lightning rod is and how almost nobody uses it”.
I’ll also say the cooldowns on those warhorn skills are outrageous for the strength of their effects. 40 second cooldowns merit a lot more bang for your buck.
P.S. Nobody will ever overload fire/lightning attunement in PvE, because 3 years after and they still haven’t balanced autoattack damage across attunements. Water and earth autoattacks are simply too great a dps loss compared to fire/air, and no ele would risk being locked out of fire or air and stuck with wimpy earth/water autoattacks.
There are a lot of bad ideas in this thread… Some of them would kill axe mainhand for condi users in spvp, some of them would kill axe off hand for pve and our only reflects/aoe pull. The good ones are changing from ferocity to precision and the reduction of splitblade precast. Axe main is only good as a condi weapon, and it’s not effective either in pve or pvp with power gear.
Axe mainhand is only bad as a power weapon BECAUSE ITS AUTOATTACK HAS MISERABLE DAMAGE.
There’s a reason the auto is power based and not an autoattack that applies bleeds/poison/torment.
The weapon and its related traits were treated as meant to be hybrid power weapons, but obviously that doesn’t work.
Not just the rangers, necros are in a similar boat and mesmers only exist as portal/time warp bots in PvE, otherwise they would get booted for guardians instead.
Utility is nice and all, but the ability to output top tier DPS is essential so the class doesn’t devolve into a gimmick class set to prop up the main classes (ele, warrior, thief).
Guang also erred with his phantasm mesmer calculations, which DnT promptly corrected.
Sometimes people get things right, and other times they’re wrong.
Let’s just say there’s good reason why the current top tier speed clear and fractal competitive PvE guilds don’t use rangers.
They can just make Windborne notes apply 2-3 seconds of quickness. It’s all about the wind theme anyways.
Not necessarily, other skills have a shorter channel than their reflect.
Yeah, but those 3 other skills are more personal-based reflections, one of which is a heal, and can be used on the move. Whirling Defense design is more akin to group-wide reflections which, for the most part, are stationary once used.
Those other stationary skills are also much larger and effective at reflecting incoming projectiles against a group, they are drop and forget (which means you can use other skills in the meantime, unlike whirling defense which locks you down in a channel), and most of them also serve as combo fields, not to mention those reflects can be used from RANGE.
Fact is, bunker condi ranger is already an inferior spec to engineers and even necromancers and warriors and mesmers. It’s the one condi spec that doesn’t have good access to aoe/cleaving conditions such as grenades/bombs, and offers virtually nothing of value in teamfights ever since they gutted spirits.
Yes, but trap rangers use sword too, and they specialize in aoe cleave damage, not to say that sword is anything more than an evade tool, I mean with sword/dagger you have 3 dodges, 1 leap, and 2 cripples.
Currently I say that engineer condi is the god build right now. With one pistol shot i lay down 5 conditions and if i keep going on they can’t condi cleanse everything away in time.
Trap rangers are just crappier necro/engi with longer cd, point blank aoe marks/grenades.
They use sword because it’s not like ranger has options for weapons, almost all of them are pretty bad, and since ranger defenses are bad to begin with as their stunbreakers and condi clears are on ridiculously long cd’s, they rely on sword to outlast.
They also use sword due to the cripple since the stupid pet can’t hit anything moving at a normal rate.
And it’s news to no one that engineers do about every condition better than everybody else. They do confusion better than mesmers, bleeding and poison better than necromancers, and burning better than ele (only guardians do burning better than engi).
And the power of engi comes from the amount of coverage and condition frontloading they can do. They can spike confusion easily, as they can blleds and burning and have several of them up at the same time to prevent condi removal spam from hurting the engineer as it does the other condi specs.
And to boot the engi has better active defenses thanks to the shield and toolkit+elixir S, on top of the best aoe heal ingame (the healing turret is a longass water field, while they had the nerve to nerf healing spring’s duration, and the engineer can easily spam blast the water field).
More importantly the engineer does a lot more aoe condi than any other condi spec in the game, only remotely approached by epodemic necro but necro has longer cd’s to his condi application and it’s super easy to CC necros to death.
Honed axes doesn’t need a rework.
Mainhand axe and whirling defense do.
Mainhand axe is a hybrid weapon much like shortbow, which is what makes them garbage because they neither excel as condition or power weapons, and they don’t benefit fully from armor choice since the coefficients for power are low and these condi weapons don’t really apply aoe condi like engineer grenades or warrior longbow/swords or necro marks.
To start with, their change to the mainhand axe autoattack is so dumb. Profoundly dumb. It has miserable autoattack damage, and their solution is to give it some short might stacks on target bounce? A wet noodle with might still hits like a wet noodle.
So buff the kitten autoattack damage for mainhand axe, greatsword, hell all ranger autos except longbow need buffing.
Buff the power coefficients for all of mainhand axe skills so it serves as a power weapon to benefit from honed axes’ 10% extra crit dmg trait.
Allow whirling defense to be cast while moving, replace the useless retaliation with protection/stability, and increase the damage of the channel. The damage for the cast time of the skills is really bad.
Increase the radius of whirling defense, it’s pitiful.
Path of Scars should be a cone instead of just a line and pull the mobs completely where the ranger is. Alternatively, the first hit should cause a 1 second knockdown and the second should be the pull.
Cause Splitblade to apply poison or vulnerability, and increase the vulnerability duration. Winter’s Bite should bounce baseline, and the Honed Axes trait should simply apply the Slow condition and give quickness to the pet, and add Torment to Splitblade.
Since longbow barrage is such a bad aoe skill, I get the feeling mainhand axe was supposed to be our cleaving/aoe ranged weapon, but it isn’t. It’s a shotgun weapon in current design with a wimpy bouncing autoattack that is neither strong enough for a power build nor applies bleeding/poison as any condi weapon’s autoattacks do.
This is a faulty comparison.
Sword is Revenant’s only pure dps weapon. Conversely, Sword is a utility weapon for Ranger (two dodges, two cripples, and a gap close). Comparing the dps from the two just doesn’t make sense. If you wanted a more fair comparison, go for Ranger Longbow vs Revenant Sword and adjust for range.
Do I think that Ranger Sword needs some work? Yeah, it’s wonky as all hell. That doesn’t mean that this comparison makes any sense or that you can compare two classes on one weapon alone.
You are so hideously ignorant.
Ranger 1h sword outputs more DPS than the longbow. Please people, have the decency to look up the math posted in these forums already for a good while before making such obviously false claims as this one.
Longbow is not a pure damage weapon anymore than the 1h sword is. The longbow has a knockback, an aoe cripple, and stealth for stealth stomps or survival. In fact, camping your longbow is a safer route in most PvE formats over going into melee range with 1h sword, which is an inferior melee option compared to other classes’ melee options.
BURST=/= DPS
Ok, does Revenant Main-Hand Sword provide any dodges or cripples? It seems to be almost entirely dps (with the exception of a chill and a blink).
Also, did you adjust for Longbow range?
The dodge tied into ranger 1h sword is undermined by the fact the sword’s autoattack delays dodge timings.
Don’t come to me with the whole turn off autoattacks. Even if it’s disabled, you are delaying your autoattack just to not be animation locked, which means you’ve got a DPS loss.
The dodge skill on the sword is also a DPS loss compared to the autoattack. In PvE, it’s basically worthless utility.
And what kind of stupid rationalization is adjusting for longbow range? Range is not an advantage in PvE! Range also has the disadvantage in pvp of not benefitting from boon stacking as most of the stacking happens in the melee train.
@Blood Red Arachnid
“Rise!” is the one shout I’m looking forward to, for a Death Nova build. Each time one of your minions dies you get a pretty decent poison field that pulses for damage. Getting 5 jagged horrors with Death Nova as often as this skill will be up is going to be amazing for AoE.
I find the situations in which I could maximize the benefit to be a bit… situational. In a PVP situation if I’m hitting 4-5 targets, I’m either surrounded and about to die, or I’m fighting a mesmer. In a lot of bouts, Rise! will summon 1 or 2 jagged horrors on a 40 second cooldown. This means that Bone Minions are literally twice as good as Rise! in most situations.
In a PVE scenario I can reliably hit 5 targets, but that will come to less tooltip damage than Well of Suffering. Worst part is, Well of Suffering doesn’t scale down when fighting fewer enemies.
I suppose condi reaper’s might use it. 25 ticks of AoE poisoning isn’t too bad, making it a stronger albeit uncontrollable Corrosive Poison Cloud. The hard part about this is I’m not sure Condi Reaper is better than regular ole Condi necro.
Well of course I was talking about PvE. I could see some use in a zerg situation in WvW but eh, dunno.
Death Nova deals direct damage unlike Corrosive Poison Cloud, so this is going to be a power build.
The Death Nova build I’m thinking of will have Well of Suffering, “Rise!” and Summon Bone Minions as the utility skills. Well of Suffering is too good not to use and there aren’t any other minion skills that synergize with Death Nova anyway.
So what are your traitline allocations? Your build also contains no group support whatsoever, it’s about as selfish as it gets.
I think they’ll adjust Reaper Shouts to be more viable. Some had too much cast time and even too much CD for its effects. I’ll wait to see in the expansion if they’ll be at least viable.
It’s not that. Even with no cast time the effects of reaper shouts are virtually worthless in PvE.
And even worse, their effectiveness varies on the number of targets hit, which means they’re even weaker on what matters most in PvE, BOSSES who are often single target encounters.
I mean, the whole reaper theme is chill and blindness from those new skills. Guess which conditions are virtually worthless on a boss….
You guessed right! Chill and blindness are worthless in bosses.
Warrior trolling for more buffs, what’s new. They just want a second Healing Signet treatment, as if Rampage wasn’t enough.
if you put a skillful [insert class] against a skillful necro, the other class would lose. Necro only falls short when there are more than 2 people or is taking ranged damage and cant gap close.
The whole kill them them before they kill you in dungeons, ive seen fail quite a few times so I wouldn’t say heal is irreleivant.
If thief is blind spamming i dont see how he can be bursting at the same time with the amount of initiative BP and Shadowshot costs.
Anet has mentioned Necros support is mostly through conditions and heals instead of boon application, considering necros can also rip boons and apply a lot of conditions, which ever is better when competing with guardians is up for debate.
This is bearbow ranger and staff guardian talk.
As far as I can tell we have no hard info on any of the Elementalist shouts, only that they seem decently designed. Except ours are also well designed except for Rise!, so I really don’t get the complaining.
Of course you don’t get it, you’re a pvp guy. When have you people ever seen anything beyond your pet formats.
What are you talking about dude, thats what matters. In PvE as long as you have damage and possibly support (where there is plenty of) you are fine. In WvW you are in a group could be large, small or anywhere in between. Are you going to tell me you want to balance classes based on a 30 man zerg where there is an infinite number of class combinations? dude sit down and think.
Except necromancers don’t support or damage either, and shouts were a missed opportunity for that needed support.
As far as I can tell we have no hard info on any of the Elementalist shouts, only that they seem decently designed. Except ours are also well designed except for Rise!, so I really don’t get the complaining.
Of course you don’t get it, you’re a pvp guy. When have you people ever seen anything beyond your pet formats.
If you can’t see how shouts are bad for PvE, you have a problem.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
The problem is Robert Gee is a pvp designer. His job with the mesmer was similar. Most of the new/revamped traits were of pvp focus, mostly based on interrupts which don’t even work on pve due to the defiance mechanics not counting the skill as an interrupt unless the stacks were stripped. And so mesmer is still mostly valuable for the portal and time warp, his sustained damage and AI issues were not fixed.
Same applies to necro. Lots of pvp niche traits, little of substance for PvE.
Meanwhile Eles and warriors and thieves show the versatility in development.
This is a faulty comparison.
Sword is Revenant’s only pure dps weapon. Conversely, Sword is a utility weapon for Ranger (two dodges, two cripples, and a gap close). Comparing the dps from the two just doesn’t make sense. If you wanted a more fair comparison, go for Ranger Longbow vs Revenant Sword and adjust for range.
Do I think that Ranger Sword needs some work? Yeah, it’s wonky as all hell. That doesn’t mean that this comparison makes any sense or that you can compare two classes on one weapon alone.
You are so hideously ignorant.
Ranger 1h sword outputs more DPS than the longbow. Please people, have the decency to look up the math posted in these forums already for a good while before making such obviously false claims as this one.
Longbow is not a pure damage weapon anymore than the 1h sword is. The longbow has a knockback, an aoe cripple, and stealth for stealth stomps or survival. In fact, camping your longbow is a safer route in most PvE formats over going into melee range with 1h sword, which is an inferior melee option compared to other classes’ melee options.
BURST=/= DPS
Mesmers are strongest against your necromancer at range, because necromancers have garbage ranged options. Their projectiles, be it life blast or necrotic grasp, can be side stepped and are less effective at range while the mesmer’s greatsword grows more effective at range.
A smart mesmer will kite a necro to death. Your job is to not allow them that.
Besides that, it’s a difficult match up because necromancers have hideously long cast times on many of their skills and even longer cooldowns on their heals for no reason whatsoever.
You have to outlast the mesmer. Mesmers have very strong burst but very bad sustained damage, it’s why elementalists are one of the strongest class match up against mesmers, because the ele can weather the burst and outsustain the mesmer.
I feel so bad for reapers this xpac. They got screwed over big time.
Tempest gets aoe stunbreaks and superspeed, more fire and water fields for blasting and aoe heals+condition removal and immobilize, not to mention that famous aoe damage elementalists are known for.
Their shouts don’t decrease in effectiveness against single targets. They serve as combos, for damaging and utility of the group.
Not much is gonna change with necromancer this xpac at this rate.
sadly i get kicked allot to as a ranger
first they saw me wear LB and a bear
i mostly use shortbow now and more dps pets but okThis is EXACTLY the reason why rangers get kicked.
If you would use sword/axe, or at least greatsword, place your frost spirits and provide party-wide ferocity with spotter, there wouldn’t be any problem.
But if you’re using longbow, shortbow or a bear pet in PvE, you’re basically just slowing everyone down and taking up a space that could be filled by a player that does contribute something to the group.Next time just make your own LFG : I want to be carried as efficiently as possible
Even with sword/axe and frost spirit/spotter, other classes are far more beneficial to the group than you are. And in terms of practical DPS application, your sword/axe ranger isn’t putting out the damage on fractal 50 mossman or archdiviner that other classes are because if you’re mashing your autoattack buttons, which is your actual source of DPS outside axe 4, you’re gonna take a dirt nap as it locks down your dodging windows.
And yeah, you can pause your sword autoattacks to make sure you don’t pounce animation lock yourself to death, but pausing your autoattack chain just so you can have an opening to be able to dodge IS A DPS LOSS. A forced DPS loss given the awful mechanic the weapon is saddled with.
Alternatively you can use the greatsword but that weapon is even worse DPS.
Either way, ranger is in the pit with necromancer as a class whose practical performance is far behind what the other classes can offer.
Also, I think many of you would be in for a rude awakening when you realize that pets balanced around ranger’s stats and multipliers would lead to a significant weaker base per. (aka, a nerf to bunker ranger builds etc)
In what way?
All people want is for pets to receive all non-base stat bonuses we get get from gear and consumables in the same way all other classes get a 100% bonus from these.
A BM pet getting an increase in stats from settler’s gear will mean nothing as pets have no base condition damage, nor healing power, and most don’t even attack the pet so getting a bonus to armor would mean little anyway.
That’s my point. To balance buffing lets with stats and modifiers, they would nerf their base stats to compensate (not disputable, they would.). So where a berserker ranger may gain some damage, builds that don’t focus on damage would take a significant hit to their pet stats, leaving the more bunkery type Rangers doing pitiful damage.
Now, it probably SHOULD happen, regardless. Sure, let’s should actually take stats and bonuses, of course. But I still don’t think people consider the consequences of what they ask for. It wouldn’t be a direct bonus, there would be a re-balance involved.
Also, Ranger core mechanic woes, like I said, are of no design fault of Revenant’s, and this comparison is ridiculous and biased. In no world is Ranger sword #2 worse than Revenant’s. Sword 3 are both very unique and have different benefits and uses. Beyond that they clearly went out of their way to try to make themselves look bad by comparing Revenant sword to axe offhand, which is obviously not a fair comparison as Axe 5 has had practicality issues since conception and 4 has its uses when it doesn’t fail.
Bunker rangers, like engineers and elementalists, should rely for themselves with damage.
Saying pets shouldn’t scale with stats because this would nerf a build that’s only used for 1v1 duels/roaming and some niche spvp is dumb.
Fact is, bunker condi ranger is already an inferior spec to engineers and even necromancers and warriors and mesmers. It’s the one condi spec that doesn’t have good access to aoe/cleaving conditions such as grenades/bombs, and offers virtually nothing of value in teamfights ever since they gutted spirits.
**So fix the pets, remove the death penalty 50 sec timer and make it a baseline 20 sec pet switch timer. Make pets take reduced aoe/cleave damage and give them their own personal regeneration/heal so we don’t have to waste ours when we don’t need it just to keep them alive.
Remove animation locks from pet attacks so they can keep up with moving targets, give them reliable leaps that don’t fail on sidestepping targets.
Normalize pet damage so pets aren’t garbage if they’re not a drake/jaguar/bird (that is, raise the damage of all pets to around the level of jaguar, bear autoattacks seriously hit for less than a tick of burning, and moas are not far behind).Make all pets cleave with their autoattacks. Make ranged pets have a 1200 range and be able to shoot up from castle walls and down from them.
Make ranged pets not be dumb and walk into mid/melee range when fighting a target.
Allow us to tell a pet where to move and when to use key skills like its CC/heal abilities. Improve the F2 skills, they’re weak skills generally with long recharges that make for a weak mechanic.
Make Fortifying Bond baseline. Hell, any boon the ranger gets should be copied to the pet, OR if the pet scales with the stats of the master it should possess the current crit %, crit damage bonus, and power/condition damage modifiers the master has.
Take pets off the aggro table so developers stop fretting about rangers exploiting them in PvE with bosses, even though single classes like the ele can currently faceroll a boss just fine.
Fix pig steal to give the bundle to the master automatically like thief’s steal.
Change traits that transfer conditions/CC to pets, and simply make those traits remove those effects instead of screwing the pet when no other classes have stunbreak/condi clear traits that have negative side effects tied to them.**
1. Elementalists are like the best class in the game, so stop complaining. It’s so so horrible that you can’t do anything in pvp without water and arcane, all that sustain must get so boring compared to playing necromancer and being hammer trained time and time again.
2. We don’t know what the warhorn or elite spec will do at all, so complaining about a weapon is foolish when you have little more than a speculative guess about what it will do.
3. You can spec into tempest without using the warhorn, after all it could offer great things for D/D ele in terms of new utilities. Honestly most mesmers that spec into chronomancer will take torch over shield, and I can guarantee that. Meanwhile the necro GS is so slow that it won’t be a given take on many pvp builds with all t he blind spam right now.
4. There are tons of great warhorn skins available if you’re able to drop the coin on black lion skin. I have howler so it’s not my concern, but there are plenty of other warhorn skins that would go awesome with my Ele like the tempest warhorn or the ley line warhorn (I have all the leyline Ele weapons).
In what world will a mesmer take torch over shield? You think a stealth skill on a 24-30 sec cd on a weapon with a terrible phantasm is gonna override a weapon that can generate 2 phantasms with one skill, phantasms that cleave, and has an aoe stun not to mention it’s the one weapon with alacrity granting capacity?
What are you smoking?
Do you even play mesmer in pvp? I remember most of your posts are pve posts, and I don’t really care about that anymore. The pledge is an amazing tool for setting up bursts, disengaging, and avoiding being targeted. Glass Mesmer specs die incredibly fast to focus fire in teamfights once their defensive cooldowns have been blown. The torch gives them the best way to avoid that focus fire in a teamfight among its other uses.
The shield has potential teamfight utility as well I do admit, but the 2 blocks it gives do very little for your survivability compared to the stealth. The phantasms are irrelevant in pvp, as they’re basically just shatter fodder and neither of them are high DPS phantasms in power builds to begin with. I see its potential, but I honestly feel that stealth works better, and most of the top mesmer players I know agree with me. Shatter mesmers will still run Greatsword and either staff or sword/torch depending on map and team composition. Shield will probably work most on niche support based specs rather than damage oriented ones.
Now this is the Ele forums, so I think we should get back to focusing on Eles, because you thinking I’m wrong because I know more about mesmer in pvp than you, is a point of discussion that doesn’t belong here.
No, you’re simply someone so deluded about the value of personal stealth over granting your team an aoe ranged stun that also buffs them in teamfights. Sword/torch is a recent thing, mesmers have been participating in tpvp without torch long before that, and the torch was mainly forced on the spec due to thieves, who are no longer as much of a problem.
Though it’s cute you would parade pvp credentials as if anyone knew who the hell you are. Credentials worth nothing for the kind of individual who dismisses a weapon and phantasms he hasn’t even tested himself considering chronomancer has been unavailable to the public lol.
1. Elementalists are like the best class in the game, so stop complaining. It’s so so horrible that you can’t do anything in pvp without water and arcane, all that sustain must get so boring compared to playing necromancer and being hammer trained time and time again.
2. We don’t know what the warhorn or elite spec will do at all, so complaining about a weapon is foolish when you have little more than a speculative guess about what it will do.
3. You can spec into tempest without using the warhorn, after all it could offer great things for D/D ele in terms of new utilities. Honestly most mesmers that spec into chronomancer will take torch over shield, and I can guarantee that. Meanwhile the necro GS is so slow that it won’t be a given take on many pvp builds with all t he blind spam right now.
4. There are tons of great warhorn skins available if you’re able to drop the coin on black lion skin. I have howler so it’s not my concern, but there are plenty of other warhorn skins that would go awesome with my Ele like the tempest warhorn or the ley line warhorn (I have all the leyline Ele weapons).
In what world will a mesmer take torch over shield? You think a stealth skill on a 24-30 sec cd on a weapon with a terrible phantasm is gonna override a weapon that can generate 2 phantasms with one skill, phantasms that cleave, and has an aoe stun not to mention it’s the one weapon with alacrity granting capacity?
What are you smoking?
The main mistake people make with claiming the pet as justification for lowered coefficients/base numbers on our weapons IS THAT PETS DO NO SCALE WITH ANYTHING.
PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM FOOD/POTIONS/SHARPENING STONES.
PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM RUNES OR SIGILS.
PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM % DAMAGE/CRIT CHANCE MODIFIER TRAITS UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED.
PETS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM THE EXTRA STATS OF ASCENDED GEAR THAT OTHER CLASSES FULLY BENEFIT FROM.
PETS DO NOT REACH SAME FEROCITY CRIT % DAMAGE BONUS LEVELS AS A FULLY GEARED BERSERKER PLAYER, SO A % OF THE RANGER’S DAMAGE IS LESS BOOSTED BY FEROCITY COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES.
PETS DO NOT CLEAVE OUTSIDE DRAKES.
PETS ARE MADE OF TOILET PAPER UNLESS IT’S A DRAKE OR BEAR.
PETS OTHER THAN JAGUAR DO INFERIOR COMBINED DPS WITH RANGER THAN ANY OTHER CLASS.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Getting kicked for a build doesn’t happen often unless you make it plainly obvious such as a staff/scepter mesmer (especially on a power build) (…)
Scepter on a mes is indeed a bad idea on a power build, but mind that staff gains a dps benefit in short fights under 10-12 seconds compared to s/s … Because staff phantasm has lower attack speed (6s untraited) than the sword one (4s untraited) but it’s damage should be higher caused by the 10% buff per condition on enemy. ( vul, bleed, chill(thru bow) burn, and the random condi like poison thru chaos field or thief) so 50% …
You should start with the staff phantasm then the chaos field ( while you cast the phantasm the eles have time to freeze ) then swap to s/p or s/f …
But of course in a pug it is really unusual to use staff on a mes …
Yeah, staff is fine in an organized group where people are actually stacking conditions to make it shine, which is often not the case in the pug.
And at any time you stay on the staff camping autoattacks, that’s a sign of a terrible player if we’re not talking a condition build (and even then staff is still suboptimal outside bosses since its value is greatly diminished against trash pulls, which is a large part of fractals to begin with).
Getting kicked for a build doesn’t happen often unless you make it plainly obvious such as a staff/scepter mesmer (especially on a power build) or a ranger camping longbow.
Groups that ask ping gear on join are also a minority, and those are pointless requests since you can ping gear you don’t even have equipped while you are in full clerics to troll them.
People getting kicked for their class is an absolute yes. Try fractal 50 or Arah joins as a ranger/necro. You will NEVER get kicked as any other class upon joining before anything has even happened.
On my ranger/necro, in one day of joining fractal 50 it took me 4 joins, the 3 others I was immediately kicked from when I joined on my necro/ranger before I even got a chance to load into the map. I proceeded to switch to my ele/guard/warrior and join the same group I had been kicked from, NEVER got kicked.
It’s real. Only non-ranger/necro mains ever make the claim that getting kicked from pug groups on LFG as a ranger/necro doesn’t happen. And it happens for a reason, because necro and ranger ARE kitten classes, they’re just less effective with less practical damage and group utility than the alternatives, and in the case of the ranger the practical damage due to the 1h sword autoattack is far lower than the theoretical tank and spank fight because trying to 1h sword arch diviner or mossman on a ranger is risky business.
And yes, it really sucks for players who love the idea of their necromancers and rangers but who must suffer due to bad implementation of the classes.
Huh, and here I thought damage meters didn’t even exist for this game. Not that it prevented people with a brain from figuring out what the highest damage classes were.
Should be a lesson about the futility of trying to obscure facts. To those interested in efficiency, you’ll never be able to hide results from.
Quite frankly I’m more surprised in your pitiful list you didn’t include addressing class exclusion, which is a far more prominent example of player exclusion. Tried any fractal 50’s lately as a ranger/necro? “GUARDIAN STAFF ELE PS WARRIOR ONLY”. They don’t mention thief but they accept those on a pinch even though it’s the highest damage class in game but stupid people with no personality will follow a perceived “meta” unquestioningly.
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At least until the sledgehammer nerf that’s inevitably going to come down because we are not thieves and only thieves and warriors should be bursting people as hard as they do.
Count the amount of significant nerfs compared to something like an 8% healing signet nerf lol. Backstab, stealth spam still a thing. But you know, PU is totally OP and needs to be erased even though its stealth doesn’t grant you access to one of the hardest hitting, highest power scaling abilities in the game.
Meanwhile Cry of Frustration is still kitten since release, with double the cooldown of mindwrack and only a small fraction of its damage.
I am using the trait that gives condition removal on signet activation, and it’s working well for me. I switched from using 0/0/2/6/6 prepatch to domination, dueling, and chaos postpatch and its working fine for me. (PvE stuffs though, I don’t do PvP or WvW.)
….Chaos line for PvE? What?
I tried domination/dueling/illusions for PvE, but I wasn’t impressed with illusions. So I switched from illusions to inspiration and the increased glamour duration+resistance and super speed+ restorative mantras+protected phantasms is something I like much better.
The one thing I hate about this patch is harmonious mantras. 8 second duration is so pitifully short, you basically have to be chain casting mantra of pain to even maintain 4 stacks, it’s absurd.
Harmonious mantras forces me to slot mantra of recovery since with the bug of it giving 2 stacks per use it’s the only mantra that actually lets me get the 5 stacks with some passable if not mediocre uptime for the 20% damage bonus.
Meanwhile a warrior has 100% uptime on his 20% damage bonus by just using his burst skill which is always ready on 10-12 seconds anyways.
The one real nice change I’d say from this patch for PvE mesmers has been mainly illusionary persona as baseline, time warp applying slow, and the inspiration glamours grandmaster.
The rest of the traits have been fairly inconsequential. Lots of interrupt traits that are useless in pve due to defiance and the longish cooldowns of mesmer interrupts relative to the duration of applied vulnerability stacks.
Mesmer lives and dies by time warp and portal for the group. Outside those utilities you would be replaced by a guardian as mesmer damage is still terrible.
Increase the chill to 3-4 seconds or switch it to a 1-2 sec immobilize.
Change storm spirit’s proc to apply 5 stacks of vulnerability per proc for 7-10 seconds, or make it award 3 seconds of quickness. Swiftness is worthless in any pve environment and its value is greatly diminished in combat.
Revert the stupid change that using the spirit’s active kills them, you’d have to make the actives far stronger to justify killing your passive procs.
Change earth spirit to provide aegis on its active. Add vigor on top of its protection to the passive proc.
Change water spirit so its heal proc can only proc when health is not full/above 90%, and make the passive and active remove/transfer conditions on proc. Or add to the proc some vigor.
Change fire spirit’s passive to also provide fury on the passive proc. Change the active to make it so it’s a 4-5 second duration blind field like thief’s black powder, and make it grant the group 5 stacks of might on use.
Make spirits invulnerable or immune to aoe, and allow the ranger to reposition them like engineers and warriors can reposition their turrets/banners.
Earth or Wind spirit’s active should be a stunbreak, the spirit utilities are also underpowered because neither of them is a condition removal or stunbreak skill, and everyone needs one of each at least in pvp.
Nature’s Vengeance is bad. Increase the pulse interval to 5-6 seconds and make the pulsed buffs 3 seconds duration. For fire spirit up the might to 5 stacks, for water spirit make it pulse 5-6 seconds of regen. For wind spirit make it pulse slow on the nearby targets. For earth spirit make it pulse resistance for 1-2 seconds.
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Mesmers are a difficult class to handle for newcomers. Learning to identify the clones from the mesmer in time to dodge his bursts or CC takes time.
More importantly, there simply aren’t enough pvp games where there’s a presence of classes with clone/deception mechanisms.
If you can predict a direct burst, why can’t you predict a condi burst? You don’t even have to dodge it. Just flip on earth as soon as you see the animation (guard torch toss, pin down, etc) and presto, resistance. You’re completely immune to a whole form of damage and you expect there to be little downside? Earth, on its own, provides protection (toughness boost, damage reduction, etc) and if you’re running arcana, you just grabbed some prot to boot, so you can’t say that earth can’t be used for defense without stone heart. When guardians use shelter or renewed focus, they have 0 DPS. Do you see them complaining? When the stealth classes spam stealth, their DPS is 0. Do you see them complaining. There is literally nothing in the game that even comes close to the type of defense diamond skin provides and when coupled with cele d/d, you’re practically a god.
Condi specs don’t just burst conditions, they apply them steadily.Necro scepter, most pisto/shield engineers apply many conditions just by autoattacking. It’s not something you predict.
The comparison to shelter is just stupid. Shelter is a heal. Renewed Focus is an elite that renews their offensive and defensive utilities.
And stealth classes spamming stealth do 0 DPS? That’s news to me, when mesmer phantasms and clones are pelting me or when a thief crits you for a 10k backstab by way of using steal teleport+stealth on steal trait immediately.
Warrior with berk stance and cleansing ire takes a virtual crap on any condi necromancer. He’s virtually immune to all condition damage and that immunity doesn’t go away by taking cleave damage from some random AoE on point.
So let’s be honest here, people whining about Diamond skin are complaining from a 1v1 perspective, as is usually the case in the pvp format.
This game is never gonna get out of the gutter into esports territory. All its calls for balance decisions are usually colored by 1v1 heroes and hotjoin QQ instead of evaluating how classes, traits, and builds function in team fights.
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Plus Maul is not remotely close to eviscerate. My berserker warrior eviscerates without might crit for around 9-10k. I’m lucky if Mauls without might crit for 5-6k, and Maul has an even bigger wind up than eviscerate, besides burning grasp it is the easiest telegraph to dodge by far in the game.
I think they have probably the most sustained dps in the game.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Oh, pvp players, you are so cute.
This is what a game without proper dps meters gets us, vastly misinformed people making claims like this.
Anyone who has played Caithe in the living story knows that’s actually how our hornet sting should work. The evasion frames should begin as soon as the skill is activated/pressed so the evasion is actually reliable.
Active defenses> larger health pool.
Just ask necromancers how their health sponge with little active defenses has fared for them.
I’ll agree that having diamond skin work while attuned to earth, like stone heart, would be a better suggestions. They’re both incredibly powerful traits that, alone, shut out a ton of builds, but one requires camping an attunement (which is a fair sacrifice, considering eles are constantly swapping atunements), while the other one just works as long as you’re playing as you should be playing (dodging, blocking, etc).
That would make diamond skin useless. The whole point of stone heart is to prevent burst while quickly healing up and getting out of earth attunement as soon as possible.
Diamond Skin however would be useless as it would provide no protection when you switch to earth as you likely already have conditions on you, and the ele can’t camp earth to preempt condition applications because then his damage drops to garbage.
There’s a reason eles don’t use earth and water attunement for long, and that reason is the terrible autoattack damage of those attunements, the ele might as well be hitting you with wet toilet paper while in those attunements so the ele just switches to them, uses a few skills and immediately exists it.
Until they balance autoattack damage across all attunements and weapons, this will keep happening.
GS needs buffs in all formats, not just PvP. All ranger weapons have terrible autoattack damage, and ranger in PvE at least has terrible aoe options, especially since the pet doesn’t cleave unless it’s a drake and drakes do less dps than cats.
The great sword is a defensive weapon. You want more damage use the 1h sword. Don’t know why people are always asking for more damage that is not where we are lacking.
Yeah, no. If you consider good damage to be above necromancer, mesmer, and revenant, you’re setting the bar pretty low.
Ranger lags considerably behind thief>ele>warrior>guardian. With less vital group utility, less cleaving/aoe, little boon provision for the group, and his one utility is merely a liability given the nature of aoe in this game and immobile spirits with no aoe protection.
The 1h sword is also a liability in any difficult PvE content. Fractal 50 mossman, archdiviner, and molten duo or mai trin is suicide. That’s why people want the GS buffed, because until the animation lock from the 1h sword auto remains, GS is the only melee weapon that doesn’t delay your defensive options (you can say to uncheck autoattack on 1h sword, but that means you’re delaying your autoattack chain and doing less dps as a result of purposely delaying Pounce when you expect a boss attack, which is often).
But, ranger isn’t the new revenant class so don’t expect any changes to rangers or necromancers let alone a fix to pets/clones/minions/spirits and aoe issues.
I’ve heard a lot of people complain about unyeilding anguish and how it’s even worse than Ranger longbow 4 by constantly telephoning enemies caught in the field, and how it’s super trolley for melee fighters. But wait, this skill is for malyx… and malyx’s weapon is mace\axe, a melee weapon… Basically, anyone using malyx and mace would never use this skill unless perhaps they were hurt and want to get away or maybe heal up, but wouldn’t they change to ventari or Janis if this was the case? IMO this makes unyeilding anguish even worse.
Guardian’s banish, ranger’s counterattack. Both melee skills that push away the opponent on melee range weapons.
It’s a CC/interrupt skill, use it for that.
False. They claim 150 vitality has ben added, but they added nothing, there was a post about it how they tricked ups, and they did nothing about it. Plus, what is 150 vitality? 1500 vitality if traited for it.. and this is equal to 1 stack of fire…
Lets need 1500 more vitality, minimum pet health should be 25k.
What people currently do, is just put conditions on pets, make pet die in less then 2 sec, then just look how hopless ranger is with 60 sec cooldown on pet swap..You seem to not understand why I say that but maybe that’s because you are some kind of new player while I’v been playing relentlessly everyday since september 2013.
So I’ll say it again before they artificially “buffed” pet’s health point (which take us back more than 1 year and a half ago, when beastmastery was really a thing. I honestly really miss this time…) it was easier to keep our pet alive. Why? Because while you weren’t forced to be a brainless skill spammer, trying to actually manage and support your pet was rewarding (since the pet at this time was a hard hitting thing).
That’s why I’ll say it again and again and again, a flat damage reduction will be a thousand time more valuable than a health increase.
NB.: I’d also say that other players barely care about the ranger’s pet since this long time. Because the pet ain’t a threat in itself and whatever he will disapear when it’s master will be dead. Most likely the pet is averloaded by conditions because the master use a conjonction of Signet of renewal and Empathic bond.
Just to emphasize what this guy is saying, a flat damage reduction is better because its effectiveness scales with the amount of sources attacking the pet and with the incoming damage size.
You could double pet health to 50k and they’d still die in a few seconds in WvW and PvE scenarios like molten duo on fractal 50 or the ascalonian general’s fiery greatsword whirl.
This game’s damage is not meant to be tanked.
To be honest pets should be removed from the aggro table so mobs don’t seek to attack them, and aoe damage should be reduced tp 80% or not affect pets at all.
Moreover, attacks like cloak and dagger should not work on the pet, it’s ridiculous that a thief can get guaranteed stealth on demand whenever a ranger pet is around considering the stupid pet can’t dodge.
Mesmer, warrior, and thief are highly effective against ele because all these three classes have strong spike and CC options to keep the ele under pressure. Eles perform best against ranger/necro/guardian because those classes have inferior spike/pressure options.
It is funny to read someone who doesn’t play ele writing such things. Thieves perform well against eles? Wut? They die to aoe and condies before doing something. Warrior sometimes is a problem, but mainly rampage, mesmer is even match i would say (if not pu). But… Performing best against necros – lol eles have hardest time agiainst those, SoS and corrupt boon is pain for ele. Against guardian and ranger i would agree.
As for how to deal with ele – time well your interrupts – it will collapse the attunement rotation and lower pressure from him. Best interrupt his burning speed at beggining (before evade animation). After every interrupt cast damaging skill. Boonstrip as much as you can, especially before burst, make burst after earth (if he use stone heart) or strip protection.
S/D thief is a solid ele counter, you must be playing terrible thieves. D/P thief is a pretty even match up.
Necro is cake on an ele, I’ve mained ele/mesmer/ranger since before release early beta, I don’t need your lecturing. Ele has such spammable and short cd condi cleanse, a single corrupt boon isn’t really going to ruin you and neither is signet of spite.
Necromancers have horrendous sustain and very long cast times on their heals( read: easy to interrupt), heals which have fairly long cd’s and heal for relatively little of the necromancer’s health pool. They have garbage for spike and unless you’re facetanking wells you should be able to wear them down if you play aggressively.