It has been explained several times why heals/sustain shouldn’t be based on HP instead of Healing Power.
High HP + low Healing Power = tanky (burst is weak) but low sustain
Low HP + high Healing Power = not tanky (burst is strong) but high sustainIf you only need high HP to have both (being tanky and high sustain) what’s the point of Healing Power in the first place?
There is a difference between being tanky and sustain and it should stay that way. Otherwise there would be no real counter to bunker builds if you can have both that easily.
I do agree that warriors still need some kind of buff but definitely not this one.
My ele needs no healing power to heal and sustain a crapton more than my necro with a healing power amulet.
Healing power is a garbage stat for most classes, and high sustain doesn’t come from it, but rather from classes’ base sustain utilities/weaponskills/traits.
I know about that but I would say this is a skill/trait problem instead of a “sustain needs to scale with HP” problem. The statement I made in the first place is still true
You can’t expect necros to have as much sustain as an ele because they are somewhat tanky by default just like warriors. Slightly more sustain for both – necros and warriors – might help though (obviously only if your build includes Healing Power or defensive traits, free sustain is a bad idea).
They are not more tanky. A D/P thief will gib my necro much faster than a D/P thief will gib my ele not only because he has much more evasive tools to mitigate burst, but because my ele can get his health back up over the 50% threshold much more reliably, so he doesn’t get hit by ridiculous Heartseeker numbers after a single backstab.
At first people were crying for burst damage, then CC and now condis… wtf do you want exactly? Be happy necs don’t have 1 million hexes as they once did
That’s a silly thing to ask.
There is clearly an imbalance in how Conditions are applied and the ways to remove them.
Players want balance, that is why we speak out.
You’re entirely right! It is entirely imbalanced that some classes can completely wipe all conditions and entirely mitigate any condition specced classes damage. The exact same should be true with direct damage as well!
The problem here is that people are not seeing both sides to this argument.
Conditions ignore armor but can be completely mitigated by removals. They have limited stacking and have a stat connected to their scaling that isn’t freely available on gear. They do their damage over time and thus allow more healing to occur to mitigate the damage.
Direct damage is mitigated by armor but cannot be completely mitigated. There are no stacking limitations and all stats that boost it are available on gear, all on a single piece in fact and actually scale a lot better. It does it’s damage upfront allowing for very little healing.
BOTH can be dodged and are affected by immunities.
If we look at the above you can see conditions are still behind and people are still asking for nerfs? Then lets nerf all direct damage so it only benefits from 5% of your power, only 1-2 people can do damage to an enemy at a time, and remove crit damage and precision from gear.
Heaven forbid that people have to take conditions into consideration now when creating their build. Yes, you’re going to have to stack removals to take out condition specs but you will dominate them. Of course you’re going to get dominated by direct damage builds but they will be killed off by condition builds. You see this is called balance. I’m not saying it’s entirely balanced at the moment, but it’s a step in the right direction.
I will list the flaws in your argument step by step to show you why conditions are over the top.
Conditions coming from classes that really cant apply multiple conditions (warriors for example) CAN be completely cleansed. That is why these classes have a subpar condition build.
Classes that are BUILT for conditions (engi/necro) used to run a condition build pre-patch because they could apply sheer pressure over the cleansing and still do a good amount of damage.
Post-patch, conditions are applied 2x to 3x faster than cleanses for cleanse FOCUSED builds/classes. This is not balanced.
You then stated that conditions do damage over time as opposed to direct damage. Yes, this is true for 1-2 conditions. When your getting 8-10 stacks of bleed+poison+burning+vulnerability+chill, your kitten drops nearly as fast as direct damage burst so your argument is not valid anymore. Also, CC is the counter for direct damage to give you room to heal. This does not work against a condition class.
“Both are affected by immunities.” I do not have extensive knowledge here but my ele’s immunities still eat condition damage so I have to disagree here.
“Both can be dodged”. Even though its harder against condition attacks, I will agree with you here.
However, you completely forgot about the protection boon. In addition to toughness, protection offers 33% reduction against direct damage. Between this and aegies/invuls I would say a class that applies 3-4 conditions every 10-15 sec is way better than a direct damage class that applies burst combos every 10-15 sec since there are simply more ways to counter the burst such as cc/invul/protection etc. (I will not even name stealth as another active damage counter since its a cheap game mechanic).
With all this data, I would say applying 3-4 conditions every 10-15 sec beats most cleansers except the heavily traited cleansers (and they traited for cleansing, why shouldnt they have a chance against conditioners).
Now the problem is, engi/necros are spreading conditions in an aoe while cleansing aoes are limited in their relative range or cd. This clearly causes a balance issue in point fights.
Necro condi spec was total garbage pre- this patch. You are so disgustingly ignorant when it comes to the class.
Its only damaging condition was bleed, and his chill and poison conditions were on 15+ sec cooldowns, so if an ele or guardian was around, guess what, conditions were wiped clean.
If a thief on d/p had shadow arts? Guess what, every time he stealthed he wiped off the necro’s damage.
Necro’s conditions isn’t what’s killing people. It’s the Terror chain created by 2 necros with Epidemic.
That’s the problem, that the current system doesn’t work for hybrids. So either part of the weapon will be kitten by your attribute investments. It’s the same with the ranger greatsword and axe weapons. Doesn’t work well — specialized weapons always pull ahead.
A good D/P thief will still kill you, as can a good phantasm mesmer.
I don’t even know why they put final thrust on the condition weapon…
Don’t nerf blind. Just reduce the thief’s sources of blind or make them much more costly.
All the other classes don’t have near the same access to blind. Saying engineer has a 10 sec cd blind is pretty silly considering it’s a trait most engineer builds can’t afford to take.
Most importantly, Aegis is a boon that will always block since there are only 3 classes in the game who can remove boons, and the necro can only do it by using a utility slot (or focus, which no necro uses because it’s a 1.5 sec cast for a boon strip). The other classes will have to eat aegis.
Blind is a condition and can be cleansed through so many sources. How many classes can counter the guardian’s many blocks/aegis by comparison? I count necro and warrior with only unblockable attacks, and only 3 classes with boon removal.
3 on axe strips a boon on each target it hits
How many tpvp necros use axe?
Current meta is condi epidemic, which uses staff/scepter, and necro power builds are still far from viable since their survivability still didn’t improve much and their power based ranged weapon is 600 range, and if they use it they forgo the best team utility that comes with staff.
whether it’s used or not is irrelevant, my post was in regard to your " and the necro can only do it by using a utility slot (or focus, which no necro uses because it’s a 1.5 sec cast for a boon strip)", seeing as you also mentioned focus “which no necro uses” i thought i should also mention axe 3
It is relevant, because you could say thief have condition build options in spvp, but having the option when it is not viable in its current state is just myopic.
And if you think removing 1 boon every 12-15 seconds is any way to deal with the current boon spam, I can’t take you seriously. At the rate classes like ele and guardian and thief and engineer can stack boons a single boon removal every 12-15 seconds isn’t going to scratch them.
Learn to counter conditions, try new builds, try new classes and stop this nonsensical, childish crying about conditions being too powerful.
I prefer to play Warrior. It is my favorite profession.
With that said, there is little I can do against a class that can apply more than 3 different types of conditions every 10 sec. Sure I can spec into full condition removal but then I lose all of my burst and since Warrior has little to no sustain I become useless on the field.
I have tried plenty of builds, none of which can withstand the pressure from Necro or Engi condition application.
Why is complaining about something that ruins the enjoyment of others considered nonsensical? Conditions annihilate my class in spvp and there is just about nothing I can do about it.
Bullcrap. Warrior has the highest sustained in game. By a long shot.
What he doesn’t have is UPTIME. If warrior has uptime, things melt. That simple.
People should think before talking. There is a difference between “I do no damage” and “I am unable to do do my damage”.
They won’t nerf condi uptime/application/damage because they’re already garbage in PvE.
Ohhh the list of things they have nerfed in pve to satisfy pvp. That is a long list. This is not a good argument. Sorry.
OK, fair, they killed rangers in every other format because of spvp. I still have my doubts about them making conditions worse than they are in the other game formats atm.
In every other game format the dominant stat builds are NOT condition builds, and it’s for a reason.
It has been explained several times why heals/sustain shouldn’t be based on HP instead of Healing Power.
High HP + low Healing Power = tanky (burst is weak) but low sustain
Low HP + high Healing Power = not tanky (burst is strong) but high sustainIf you only need high HP to have both (being tanky and high sustain) what’s the point of Healing Power in the first place?
There is a difference between being tanky and sustain and it should stay that way. Otherwise there would be no real counter to bunker builds if you can have both that easily.
I do agree that warriors still need some kind of buff but definitely not this one.
My ele needs no healing power to heal and sustain a crapton more than my necro with a healing power amulet.
Healing power is a garbage stat for most classes, and high sustain doesn’t come from it, but rather from classes’ base sustain utilities/weaponskills/traits.
It’s pretty bad if you wipe. It seems like so many of them still do melee so even with the reflection your group takes massive damage.
So, either get it right with melee first attempt or bring your ranged weapons out and condi removal/healing and kite around the room in a circle wearing the boss down.
You can still kill the boss after a wipe. A couple of us ran in too early the first time and got killed by the lifesteal the tree does in the NPC. Just run in, start chaining reflects and melee your hearts out. It dies really.
If you’re organized.
I tried it on a pug with my guardian and it was so painful I just switched to my staff ele and duo’d or soloed the boss down. You really need people to be able to push out the DPS if there’s only 1 guardian or 1 mesmer in the group.
And guess what? A lot of my PuG’s for TA end up having a ranger or a conditionmancer or non-LH ele for some reason. Garbage classes. I guess I’m lucky because engineers are so rare I haven’t had the misfortune of adding that baggage to my pug experience, but the amount of PuG’s that run competent guardians/warriors are slim and more often than not I’m stuck with deficient classes in deficient builds.
I really don’t want to be THAT guy, but I’m gonna start excluding people from my groups if I see them running conditions, and outright deny any rangers from coming in if I don’t see them using a mainhand sword and a drake/jaguar/hound.
Sadly this game has given the impression to people that they can spec for any role they want and work in a dungeon, but this game just comes down to avoidance and raw DPS.
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those stupid minor traits revives 10% faster should be deleted i rather have nothing there
All 8 classes have traits like those, no one ever uses them afaik…reviving when dead is a waste of time in PvP anyway, just let them port back and rejoin the fight…
Really, when you look through the entire traits of all 8 classes, you could delete 60-70% of them and few people would complain…there is really very limited build diversity across all classes…
I don’t think any class has a set of 3 bad minor traits in a single trait line.
Necromancer Spite and Death Magic line. Mesmer Domination line. Ranger Marksman line.
Anet’s solution to everything seems to be damage.
Epidemic needs to go.
I don’t want to play a boring aoe condi bomb necro. I can’t play bunker necro, and I can’t play power necro.
What is so hard to understand about instead of giving that kind of damage increase to Terror, that you actually fix necro survivability.
This patch changed nothing about the fact that I can be trained to the ground.
That’s why with TP you see them run a setup that outputs such pressure so that their necros can’t be trained to the ground.
If they limited the team comp to only 1 of each class, necros right now would be feeling a lot of pain. Instead, you see people running 2 necros to provide enough pressure to allow a necro to not be shut down.
They won’t nerf condi uptime/application/damage because they’re already garbage in PvE.
Warriors just need better condi removal traits/utility, as do rangers and perhaps mesmers. All the other classes have enough cleansing, and ele certainly don’t need more of it as before the patch a bunker ele pretty much shrugged off necro bleeds so trivially.
The burning on crits every 10s isn’t killing you. Its the CC.
Counter the CC and you counter the Necro. Easier said than done, but the number of stuns that the Necros can put out coupled with the 1100+ dps that the stuns tick for by themselves is the killer. Don’t cry about Dhuumfire, because a pure terror necro that puts those 30 pts elsewhere will still own that kitten unless you figure out how to counter the Fears.
You’ve got a fear on a 20 sec cd and another one on staff at 45 sec cd. You’ve got a fear every 90 seconds if someone CC’s you and is in melee range if you trait for it in 20 Death Magic.
The only non-traited fear besides Doom and Mark is Spectral Wall, and if you’re walking into something as obvious as Spectral Wall then you deserve to die.
Hell, just stay near your ele so when fear hits he just uses water attunement and cleanses it off you immediately.
Necros need to rely on guardians for stability so they don’t get punted all over the place — why shouldn’t classes rely on others to cleanse conditions off them?
Just bring stability and terrormancer is not an issue. Yeah, this sucks mostly for necros, but that’s the fault of the class not being given stability. Maybe Death Shroud should clear a condition baseline when you enter it.
Raise necro axe to 900 range. Buff auto by 20-30%. Make dagger cleave.
Make dagger 2 an aoe health siphon. Change the garbage adept spite line and minors on the trees to provide better effects. Lower cast time of Focus 5. Lower cast time and CD on dagger 3.
Lower CD on heals and life transfer (DS4). Bam, power necro survival increased.
Also, for the love of god, buff Lich projectile speed and Dark Path projectile speed, and Make Spectral Grasp home on a target. People constantly sidestep these projectiles.
But the risk is trivialized when you bring guardians, so what’s the point? Melee SHOULD be risky, and actually in most circumstances it is not. Fractal 48 ascalonian general and to a lesser extent mossman/archdiviner are a bit more punishing, but the rest are easy to faceroll in melee.
It’s captain, not general.
Yes, my führer.
Don’t nerf blind. Just reduce the thief’s sources of blind or make them much more costly.
All the other classes don’t have near the same access to blind. Saying engineer has a 10 sec cd blind is pretty silly considering it’s a trait most engineer builds can’t afford to take.
Most importantly, Aegis is a boon that will always block since there are only 3 classes in the game who can remove boons, and the necro can only do it by using a utility slot (or focus, which no necro uses because it’s a 1.5 sec cast for a boon strip). The other classes will have to eat aegis.
Blind is a condition and can be cleansed through so many sources. How many classes can counter the guardian’s many blocks/aegis by comparison? I count necro and warrior with only unblockable attacks, and only 3 classes with boon removal.
3 on axe strips a boon on each target it hits
How many tpvp necros use axe?
Current meta is condi epidemic, which uses staff/scepter, and necro power builds are still far from viable since their survivability still didn’t improve much and their power based ranged weapon is 600 range, and if they use it they forgo the best team utility that comes with staff.
I think the posts who disagree with this are basically saying, “I WANT ranged to do 75% less damage in group situations than melee”.
Yes.
Risk vs reward wise, ranged is far less risky than melee with this game mechanics (with the exception of a couple boss like TA F/U). It’s perfectly fine for ranged players to be punished if they don’t want to learn how to melee.
But the risk is trivialized when you bring guardians, so what’s the point? Melee SHOULD be risky, and actually in most circumstances it is not. Fractal 48 ascalonian general and to a lesser extent mossman/archdiviner are a bit more punishing, but the rest are easy to faceroll in melee.
It’s pretty bad if you wipe. It seems like so many of them still do melee so even with the reflection your group takes massive damage.
So, either get it right with melee first attempt or bring your ranged weapons out and condi removal/healing and kite around the room in a circle wearing the boss down.
Don’t be such a girl, you want the boons get in there and earn them, get in there and melee you coward.
Just curious, and I do not know the OP. Do you possibly know how to read?
He/She had a good point. The Ranger’s LB has been buffed to where it is now “supposed to be used” even though it is still laughable comparably. Can’t use it because if you are within range of the buffs you’re nerfing your damage output.
So I guess what you meant to say is,
“The longbow shouldn’t be in the game.”
FTFY
The longbow’s damage is still inferior to shortbow damage in most circumstances.
A ranger using a longbow in a dungeon is agood indication you need to kick him, just as much as using a subpar DPS pet like bear or ranged pets instead of drake is another reason for kicking the ranger.
If your pug can’t handle melee strat due to lack of reflect/DPS, then you need to kite the spiders around the room while DPS’ing the boss. Staff ele helps a lot here due to all the cc and condi removal while DPS’ing a boss.
Don’t nerf blind. Just reduce the thief’s sources of blind or make them much more costly.
All the other classes don’t have near the same access to blind. Saying engineer has a 10 sec cd blind is pretty silly considering it’s a trait most engineer builds can’t afford to take.
Most importantly, Aegis is a boon that will always block since there are only 3 classes in the game who can remove boons, and the necro can only do it by using a utility slot (or focus, which no necro uses because it’s a 1.5 sec cast for a boon strip). The other classes will have to eat aegis.
Blind is a condition and can be cleansed through so many sources. How many classes can counter the guardian’s many blocks/aegis by comparison? I count necro and warrior with only unblockable attacks, and only 3 classes with boon removal.
15 seconds attunement cooldown is not playable. That’s a fact.
Actually, it’s an opinion. And that’s a fact.
No other profession has to spend trait points to be able to USE THEIR WEAPON SKILLS…
And no other profession has 20 weapon skills. Technically, engineers can if they want. But the elementalist is the only profession with a default 20 weapon skills.
…because if eles don’t they are stuck using autoattacks for 5-10 seconds.
How is that any different than any other profession that spams their weapon skills (or Initiative, in the case of thieves) while their weapon swap is on cooldown?
Because ele autoattacks are terrible compared to thief/dagger necro/warrior.
Scepter autoattacks in particular do horrible damage.
Burst=/= sustained, and in pve sustained is what rules the field.
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Why did they nerf shortbow range is a question I’d really like to hear a proper answer for.
Would you be happy if the answer was to bring it in line with the thief shortbow range and to differentiate it from the longbow? It’s important to frame the question so that it gets detailed explanations rather than raising more questions. Why was the shortbow nerfed when it wasn’t a problematic weapon? They can say anything in response to asking why it was nerfed, but asking them to justify the nerf in the context of the weapon’s former power level not being above average becomes more challenging.
No, because thief shortbow auto bounces across targets, they get a combo field, an evading shot they can chain 3-4 times if the pool intitiative plus the cripple it brings, the only blast finisher with no cooldown in the game and one of the best aoe’s to boot. That combo field also happens to be poison and now its blast applies weakness, one of the best protective conditions in the game.
Don’t ever compare ranger shortbow to thief shortbow again. It’s a joke.
Here we go. Finished my Ranger guide.
Some pretty good DPS there, my 20k whirling wraths are kinda pitiful against the 4k whirling axe.
Yeah but he’s got a super useful bear whose 400-500 autoattacks should make you quake in terror.
Funny how useless warrior is in tpvp but they are boss at killing dumb npcs in PvE.
Because base warrior damage dwarfs everything else. It just so happens that a) people can walk out of 100b, and b) your axe autoattack mainhand is not so godly when that thief or mesmer can turn around and spike you in 4 seconds.
If warrior receives enough uptime/roots, you’ll watch the spvp forums drown in tears over how they’re getting 100-0’d in a combo by warriors. While that thief may backjstab my BM ranger for 4-5k, if I ate a 100b from a zerker warrior in spvp that would be 60-70% of my health gone, and whirlwind took another 10-15%. Eviscerate alone with 100b will kill most people outside the tankiest guardian.
Ranger on the other hand wins by outlasting, but outlasting is pointless in PvE and while ranger can mitigate some burst with evasion, in PvE bosses pretty much do pvp burst much more frequently so even the tankiest of builds will go down if they take a hit — you gotta dodge/reflect.
In PvE if you try to outlast you will be overwhelmed. No amount of changes like making mobs more condi heavy will affect warrior representation because guardians are the real broken class in the game enabling warriors and thieves with ample condi removal/aegis/ridiculous reflects. If guardian couldn’t clear condis so easily and their reflection were toned down alongside mobs using more conditions/CC, you’d see the gap between warriors and other classes go down.
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Yeah, can people get back on topic concerning ranger discussion? This is not a thread for evaluating people’s personalities or posting habits.
Pet shouts are completely selfish, crap utilities. Hell, sic em is not even good anymore sinc ethey nerfed pet damage so that 40% more pet damage now gives less than it used to and still people weren’t taking it.
Ask them why my godkitten pet can’t hit targets with movement speed bonuses like +25% and swiftness.
Ask them why people can sidestep my slow kitten ranged pet projectiles.
Ask them why the damage is so garbage, why power builds have no way to deal with boons, and why the class needs to spec full toughness because without it it has no innate survival to support glass cannon specs.
The burning is overpowered, not the terror. Terror was fine prepatch.
Remove epidemic. Let’s see how OP burning is then.
So when a guardian is the undisputed point holder and the only class with a 30 sec cd stunbreak that also grants group stability and retal, alongside some of the best cc and passive team aoe damage via retal — it is called “team utility”.
But when necro brings aoe weakness and condition pressure, it is not “team utility”.
Guardians and mesmers have been the best of the best at the roles they’ve been used for. The same could be said of elementalists.
Hell, people complain about glass necros having to be focused down as if it is some monstrous requirement, as if letting a staff elementalist hardcast his crap freely on a point wouldn’t be as devastating if nobody focuses them.
The same applies to a d/p thief. I f your team doesn’t focus him, he will gib someone.
But suddenly necros become a threat with only a single viable build (power necros didn’t get any better, every necro still needs to run a staff, and minions are still crap utility) and the meta comes to a crakittenhink when people don’t complain about classes like guardians is because they don’t die directly to them. Support classes rarely get the hate, even if they’re the ones largely responsible for enabling the result. It’s the most obvious classes, the ones doing the killing, that get attention.
If guardians were an unkillable monster, then I would be inclined to agree with you; but as it is right now, guardians fulfil their role of a node holder without being over the top; any two competent dps are able to kill a guardian very easily, by no means is guardian a broken class, its just a fail safe for teams, so that no matter what happens in a match their guardian will always be able to buy them time.
The problem with necro is the amount of conditions they can put up instantly makes team fights trivial; in most instances people are only considering the necro as a single class, but coupled with any power class condition necro’s are unstoppable, I know for a fact there is nothing easier for me to kill then an enemy who the necro has pumped full of conditions and is spam fearing, its just like shooting fish in a barrel, I just target and kill target and kill, and its not by any merit of mine, but solely due to the fact that necro’s can spread these conditions at lightning speed.
If that is viewed as balance by people, then there is some serious self deception going on here.
And yet every team needs to have a guardian. No other class can fill their role half as competently. No other class can give group stability or lay ground control like they can.
Part of the necro’s instant condition view is that people are getting hit by Epidemic. Epidemic just needs to be changed so it doesn’t double the amount of conditions on someone if a teammate happens to be near him.
Epidemic+ Engineer is a problem. So they need to change how epidemic works or remove it altogether for some other utility.
I really want to run some other weapon than the staff, or a power necro, or a bunker necro, but that just isn’t happening. I’m still made of glass with crappy defensive options and outside a condi build with burning I do no competitive pressure.
The last time I tried power necro with berk or soldier amulets I was hopelessly getting farmed by thieves and warriors and mesmers while trying to get to a point. You drop faster than a prom dress outside rabid conditions build.
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Hey, just to answer a few more questions in depth.
@ Kryshade, Necro’s now bring Burning, Torment and the new and improved weakness, these weren’t present previously and bringing that much condition pressure means and condition cover (for their bleeds and burning), has changed the class drastically.
It is true their previous flaw of being an easy to focus target hasn’t changed, but the fact that they can deal so much counter pressure back on the aggressors and ontop of stacking the new weakness condition, means that they are substantially more survivable even though they are glass canons, and most of the time force their target to back off, if not killing it, but you can almost say any class being bursted down apart from guardians will almost always go down. This scenario however isn’t always true@Krilce, I am not just jumping on the nerf necro’s train, and have always been a very big advocate of necro’s receiving buffs, but when it has become very apparent that necro’s are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
If you also wish to discuss class viability, guardians and mesmers have always been a common choice of most teams, not because they are overpowered, but because of the utility they offer a team guardians can hold a point and sustain versus multiple targets, making it easier for their team mates to make plays around the map; whilst a mesmer offers illusion of life and portal which are hands down some of the best utilities in the game. Take these utilities away from those classes and watch them disappear from competitive play.
Necro on the other hand, offers great utility and massive aoe damage, that would even melt bunker guards; the damage at the moment is over the top and very very hard to counter; if the necro is giving a moderate time frame of free casting the team fight could be over before it has even started.I am not saying this because I want them to nerf necro into the ground, I think that in its current state necromancer is over the top and could use some toning down .
So when a guardian is the undisputed point holder and the only class with a 30 sec cd stunbreak that also grants group stability and retal, alongside some of the best cc and passive team aoe damage via retal — it is called “team utility”.
But when necro brings aoe weakness and condition pressure, it is not “team utility”.
Guardians and mesmers have been the best of the best at the roles they’ve been used for. The same could be said of elementalists.
Hell, people complain about glass necros having to be focused down as if it is some monstrous requirement, as if letting a staff elementalist hardcast his crap freely on a point wouldn’t be as devastating if nobody focuses them.
The same applies to a d/p thief. I f your team doesn’t focus him, he will gib someone.
But suddenly necros become a threat with only a single viable build (power necros didn’t get any better, every necro still needs to run a staff, and minions are still crap utility) and the meta comes to a crash.
They just need to remove epidemic as a utility skill and balance the class without it. I’m tired of this class being thrown into the garbage bin everytime they “balance” (aka sledgehammer nerf like rangers took this patch on all game formats) it because some necro bombed people with an epidemic and they got mad.
I think when people don’t complain about classes like guardians is because they don’t die directly to them. Support classes rarely get the hate, even if they’re the ones largely responsible for enabling the result. It’s the most obvious classes, the ones doing the killing, that get attention.
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quote:
“I’m really curious about how many people QQing about terror have stability and stun breakers in their builds,”Engi´s dont have stability or viable stunbreakers in a usefull build anymore
Yes, they do. Instead of running Elixir R, run Elixir Gun as the toolbelt skill Healing Mist was stealth transformed to a 40 sec cd stunbreaker on top of the regen.
Engis get a talent for 10 points in explosives witch is a very good trait line that applies 4 secs of burning whenever you crt with no ICD
Necros get a a talent for 30 points in spite witch is a god awful trait line that applies 4 seconds of burning on crt with a 10second ICD
People are really complaining about this?Engis trait has the same icd. Engi doesnt have fear though does it. Necro needs burning but perhaps its fear should now be toned down slightly (duration on doom for example) to compensate slightly.
Nope, instead the engi gets to apply his aoe conditions without needing Epidemic, at least they have access to stability or stealth, at least their heals are way better, and at least their elite isn’t total garbage.
Engineers also get immobilize instead of fear and access to confusion and blind in HGH.
Stop crying.
My necro can still get trained/CC’d to the ground. Thieves still hardcounter necro while you get to flip your grenades around with far lesser cooldowns than marks.
Don’t think projectile reflection affects the attacks of the chanters on the seals.
People who main warriors don’t know how good they got it. Ditto for guardians.
LH ele goes down faster than a prom dress if you don’t know how to properly manage your dodges and your group doesn’t mitigate damage for you.
You basically run 916 toughness, at about 13k hp, with the lowest armor in the game. And no Renewing Stamina trait for vigor.
You can pretty much be 1-shot sometimes in fractal 48. It is NOT a self-sufficient spec and the group needs to be built and played around it, unlike Pappy Warrior going on his merry way of self-sufficiency.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
I just had to finish it with this pug by basically me and the necro kiting around the room doing ranged.
If you don’t have reflect or good dps you will die, period. This is just horrible with pugs. Obviously this can be done with the right setup in a minute but on a lfg website pug it’s just bad.
And it’s terrible design in this game to make classes like necro and ranger and engineer undesirable because they make encounters like this so much more difficult than if you just had brought raw melee dps and reflection.
This is impossible with pugs with the wrong setup. I was the only guardian in a group of classes, none of which brought reflect. The ele didn’t even have aurashare for magnetic aura.
Video. We want to see how it actually fares in practice, competing with the current meta.
Please nerf necros by reducing the damage fear does by maybe 10% and reduce the amount of fear on the ds3 skill to only 1 second irrespective of distance from the target.
It is lame at the moment. As you can get someone often from 100-0 with fear and conditions.
Please don’t overnerf necro. Just make it useful but not op – like the guardian
Yeah, guardian is not OP. It’s just every team needs 1. Not OP at all.
Pretty much. You have more condi removal options than a power based berk necro, which is supposed to be the condi manipulation class.
i think to all dont know how to read or something or u guys dont know how guardian works, or maybe i dont know how to read this is wat i get.
with the addition of torment his dps guardian (probably meditation build) can only remove a set of condis not many but it can remove but he gets wrecked, so he is forced to go bunker wich obviously he has to use the build that every1 use and remove a lot of condies.
No, the problem is some people expect to have a spec that makes them condition free even 50% of the time. Which is pretty fun for the guy using it but not for the condi spec whose entire damage and pressure is condition uptime.
Ask necromancers how fun it is to try to outcondition a good ele with cleansing water. Or a half decent guardian.
If you want DPS, you take the survival hit. Hell, offensive guardians have a crapton of passive survival more than other classes that aren’t mesmers or thieves.
If anything the game has too much condition removal, and the only place with any amount of condition uptime is aoe bombing on points.
You think 10 months into the game rangers wouldn’t have figured out ONE good dungeon build? Or how to circumvent their garbage pet ai making them die all the time on aoe?
Sometimes the answer just isn’t there.
Rangers are going down..Dont know how much,lets wait and see if the nerf on pets was to much or not.
Yes, because pets are all the ranger was….
I already said it, spirits and traps are still very viable. I was a BM home point bunker for my team pre patch. Post patch I am running spirits and can 1v1 a far point assaulter coming to my point equally if not better with this build without sacrificing my sustain or survivability that I had before.
Just because other classes got stronger does not imply the ranger got weaker, and just because you cant afk use your pet doesnt mean the ranger is done.
Spirit builds lol
Ok then um, if you’re running away from a zerg does it really matter if you blow your elite, you probably won’t need it for another 3 mins anyway.
Otherwise Death Shroud is there to soak up any damage you might take while running away. Necros are more about stripping boons than applying them, so it’s only understandable why we don’t have easy access to all the goody boonies, soz.
And that trait is in Soul Reaping, not Death Magic, DM is the crappiest tree, no one uses minions. \(^-^)/
Because part of repositioning means we may reengage, and I’ve been forced to blow a 3 min cd to just reposition and not die because it’s my only reasonable source of stability. I mean, couldn’t they have given well of power at least 3-4 secs of stability?
Yeah, sacrifice 30 in spite and 20 in curses, kill my power necro.
Forced to spend points in the crappiest tree as well.
How the hell am I going to survive 3-4 static fields and warrior hammers without it?
Do I have to waste lich form any time I may want to retreat from a zerg?
I guess what I am complaining about is being pigeon holed into being a bunker, and now I have to use utility slots on conditions. Less choice because dps/condition specs aren’t feasible.
Oh, noes you have to use certain utility slots!
I guess my necro also has to use stun breakers, and in order to kill you must either bring corrupt boon or well of corruption.
In fact, any class that wants a chance at killing you and isn’t a thief is forced to bring boon removal, go figure.
My mesmer wanted to run some signets or phantasm/reflection utilities, but I guess if I want to live I cannot bring them, because blink/decoy are mandatory to survive, and null field is mandatory to deal with you and ele bunkers.
I love the tears of guardian “problems”. The mandatory, backbone class of every format in this game has it just sooooo HARD!