Guild Wars 2

If it comes this is a huge nerf to thief survivability that is not entirely uncalled for.

It does seem like a bit of a lazy nerf but it will also leave room to buff (un-nerf) some of the d/d and s/d skills, 4 out of 5 of which have already been hit. It might also shift more thieves away from the stealth line to the evasion line.

Ironically, this won’t do a thing to address the much QQ’ed about D/P ‘permastealth’ build as it never needs to exit stealth.

JaironKalach.4938:

Zephyrus.9680:

Contrary to the attitude of some of your fellow servermates, the final score means absolutely nothing for the individual fights. What we did last week many times while outnumbered and facing inevitable zergs with only one place they wanted to go, was to set up super sieged choke points in a keep or SMC and keep camping it till we wiped or TC/DB gave up.

Um… You’re my servermate….? I really need to fix my sig…

Oops thought you were SBI. Point still stands though :P

Lol

The main thing that makes zergs strong is combo fields and AoE. Against a bit of AoE the 700 minion zerg would be reduced to 100 necros with useless builds.

Bonus points for creativity though :P

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Zephyrus.9680:

JaironKalach.4938:

Johje Holan.4607:

I’m just sayin’ if someone came into my neighborhood, ransacked my house AND my neighbor’s house AND then went down to the local bar and bragged about it…

You would do what exactly? Me, I would call the cops because I’m slow, overweight, and uncoordinated while this person has shown that they have at least some experience with violence. Why continue a fight that I’ve already lost and will continue to lose?…

Unless of course you’re playing a game. Then you continue to fight because you enjoy the experience, whether it makes a difference in the final score or not. After all, the final score is the least beneficial part of this game.

Or set up some bait with your friends at doorway or a long narrow hallway!

Contrary to the attitude of some of your fellow servermates, the final score means absolutely nothing for the individual fights. What we did last week many times while outnumbered and facing inevitable zergs with only one place they wanted to go, was to set up super sieged choke points in a keep or SMC and keep camping it till we wiped or TC/DB gave up.

There was one night holding SMC with it’s gates open, I’m sure I had gotten well over 100 kills and multiple full inventories before I died. That was from falling off a cliff during a supply run…

That week our ending score was ~99,374 to TC’s ~343,230 but it ended up being one of the most fun WvW weeks, for me at least.

Yes, well, the choke point argument went out the window when trebs cracked open two wall sections on the SBI Overlook (Eternal Battlegrounds), and when we took a break to snatch up our borderlands . . . we came back and ran into the same zerg all over again.

That’s when I called it quits for the night.

Like I said. I’m a ranger, and a player who’s not that good at player-vs-zerg. “What am I supposed to use, harsh language?”

Arrow carts and ballistas. It’s true the same method won’t work forever and in every situation but really the only way you can beat numbers in WvW is with a lot of siege on a concentrated area unless they’re just bad. Then you can stack might and steamroll.

For what it’s worth, I’m not even WvWing this week except for daily since when we blowout I’m never motivated and sort of feel like I’m on the wrong side.

Tho I’m just strange like that… Our fairweathers are the opposite.

yagerau.6438:

All you need to maintain perma stealth is the +1 second stealth trait, the initiative while stealthed trait, and +2 initiative when stealthed trait. That is for perma AOE stealth. I use it with my buds around corners sometimes and ambush people. If you run with two or more similar spec thieves, you can roam the whole map invisible.

“All you need?” That’s 35 points in vit and toughless lines which is essentially half your build. You’re almost certainly going to at least finish one of those lines, if not both so you’re committed to a tanky relatively low damage and low burst build. I’ve tried it and it was a nice to troll with perma stealth while black powder counters other melee theves but the build is just not effective at actually taking down anyone with a moderate amount of defense because it relies on back stab crits. Not one but lots of them.

Against someone with a clue, BS isn’t very effective after you’ve lost the element of surprise. Of course in WvW most people don’t have a clue and many don’t have even a moderate amount of defense. So ok… Nerf perma stealth on principle? I just don’t see the big deal about that build.

And while we’re at it, let’s also nerf everything that requires learning about another class because the majority of the player base doesn’t want to learn about other classes except their own.

True true

Guess I should learn how a class works before complaining that I can’t fight it.

JaironKalach.4938:

Johje Holan.4607:

I’m just sayin’ if someone came into my neighborhood, ransacked my house AND my neighbor’s house AND then went down to the local bar and bragged about it…

You would do what exactly? Me, I would call the cops because I’m slow, overweight, and uncoordinated while this person has shown that they have at least some experience with violence. Why continue a fight that I’ve already lost and will continue to lose?…

Unless of course you’re playing a game. Then you continue to fight because you enjoy the experience, whether it makes a difference in the final score or not. After all, the final score is the least beneficial part of this game.

Or set up some bait with your friends at doorway or a long narrow hallway!

Contrary to the attitude of some of your fellow servermates, the final score means absolutely nothing for the individual fights. What we did last week many times while outnumbered and facing inevitable zergs with only one place they wanted to go, was to set up super sieged choke points in a keep or SMC and keep camping it till we wiped or TC/DB gave up.

There was one night holding SMC with it’s gates open, I’m sure I had gotten well over 100 kills and multiple full inventories before I died. That was from falling off a cliff during a supply run…

That week our ending score was ~99,374 to TC’s ~343,230 but it ended up being one of the most fun WvW weeks, for me at least.

I agree, Mesmers are OP. I don’t know any of their skills and they always kill me. D/D eles too.

I also can’t do any damage to guardians.

Oh wait… theves you say? Nope. Easy and predictable. I just count to 3 and dodge when the thief runs at me after that. Or if they’re stealth, dash skill or block or count to 4 and dodge. If I’m low health they may finish me, same as any other glass cannon burst build, but that’s about it. The glass D/D theves die in seconds or are forced to run. If they do get their spike off I’m still half hp and nothing left for them to do except die or run.

The permastealth D/P theves do low damage and/or low survivability and use all their initiative staying hidden all the time.

Oh and culling sucks. Hopefully will be fixed in the update this month.

Is it fixed yet?

Somehow I always miss fight clubs.

Xsorus.2507:

[…………..] But i can tell you that it would not have mattered if they had defended the map from you cause the match is already over.

Not to revive a dead horse but stop being so nihilistic… What I see from your argument repeating over and over on the last pages is “we won’t be #1, therefore kitten trying …”

First. I offer you a bottle of YOLO and welcome to our world. Every single match Mag is in now is already predetermined in terms of #1 and usually 2 and 3 but so what? It doesn’t mean no one is allowed * gasp * try.

You can play your way but everyone else will discuss the battles and tactics regardless of final ranks.

not signed.

Downed state is fine but there should be a timed penalty afterwards and rally limit as well.

Being downed and revived should still have a significant consequence in the fight.

Completely agree with OP. Downed state is fine but unlimited rallys in an indefinitely short amount of time is not and also precludes glass cannon builds or damage in zergs because these builds can actually hurt the fight.

There should be like 3 second penalty before you can rally on first down.

Next down within 30 seconds has 6 seconds penalty (lvl rally 2 penalty).

Next down with lvl 2 penalty is insta death.

To decrease penalty to lvl 1, wait 30 seconds. And 30 more seconds to get rid of lvl 1. Or it could be longer like 60 seconds, even 5 minutes, or else work like the ‘death penalty’ in GW1 where you need kills to reduce the penalty.

I think something along those lines would be a better system with less luck-based free passes in zerg vs zerg.

IDarko.4709:

SoS doesn’t work againt the guardian bubble but it is brilliant against most other classes.

It does. Blind blocks the bubble and you can reflex it on the animation.

It’s fun to do these tricks but of course not worth the skill cooldown unless in the middle of a larger fight where you might otherwise lose the stomp.

Nice stomp OP. I’ve never caught a downed ele through mist form like that.

Thundar.3910:

There will always be two camps in WvW, one that thinks a zerg is some mindless mash of players, and another who enjoys strats involving zergs.

Small group play will always and has always had a large role in WvW. Smalls squads can quickly take camps, slow or halt supply lines, and take a tower/keep when permitting.
[…]

At least for me this isn’t the issue with zergs.

I enjoy both types of play in WvW (reason WvW is so fun) but my problem is that for zerging I get so much more rewards than anything else. If you wan’t tons of loot bags you go zerging. Period.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you want to win in WvW there’s things to do like scouting, dolyak sniping, supply running (repairs) and of course dolyak running. The last, which is extremely important, is also extremely boring and gets almost no rewards. Dolyak running is the definition of a thankless job.

It is only because WvW doesn’t reward it appropriately. WvW only rewards zerg wars and the bigger the zergs, the more the rewards!

@ OP question, to fix zerg wars, you don’t need to nerf the current loot or anything but scale up the rewards so that killing a player in a 1v1 – 5v5 fight will have proportionally better loot then tagging someone who dies in zerg vs zerg.

The loot should be more based on damage than it already is. Because a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 (any small scale) kill has probably involved 20 times more damage and skill-use thakittenerg vs zerg kill. And since it’s only one loot bag there and it took a lot more work, it’s only fair that it should have better loot in it!

santi.7516:

Maguuma is not even a half of what they want you guys to believe, don’t let them crush your morale. specially you CD, you’re one of the rare jewels of tier 4.

What are these pretenses you speak of?

I can’t imagine anyone being really happy with a blowout match but I would much rather be the underdog. As far as I’m concerned, CD and SBI are the lucky ones this week… I’m sure they’ll put up a good fight regardless.

Meanwhile I’ll be lvling my ele some and hopefully getting some ascended gear as well.

Jiiub.7135:

Awesome Anet, thank you

muylaetrix.2096:

morrolan.9608:

muylaetrix.2096:

so they made the game even far more zerg friendly. /facepalm

does Anet really want to reduce w3 to 3 groups from 100 players, occuppying 50 square meters and only seeing 10 % of the players while not being able to pick up the loot fast enough at the same time ?

So you’d rather no loot and going broke.

no, while i like a bit of zerging (but not in this game), the rewards for zerging are far too good compared to the rewards for soloing or running in a small group.

you want 5 bags to drop from one kill because you only fight 1 person just because i get 5 bags for killing 5 people while ikittenerg?

Exactly. But to be more accurate, your 5 bags were probably for tagging 5 people with 1 skill. And 1 bag from soloing could have been 20 times more total damage and skills used. It should at least be a significantly higher chance of a rare from that drop.

Point is, loot increase is great and always welcome but in general, rewards in WvW are all centered around AoE damage (tagging) in massive battles which is actually not the only thing that needs to happen in WvW.

Escourting yaks, running supply from camps, solo capping camps, and roaming/scouting get very little to no rewards. Similarly, with support/boons, CC and healing. So it would be nice to see activities other than zerging rewarded fairly for their contribution as well.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Zephyrus.9680:

In a very unique but profitable way :o

(Forgive the triple post, I don’t know how to attach multiple images to one post)

Lol, what are we supposed to be looking at in that ss?

All I see is Bunzy being his usual self.

He has been inquiring about xfering to ehmry on their forums a little birdie told me.

A lot is culled on that screen but we had around 20 arrow carts on the 3rd floor, a treb or 2 and ballistas on the ramp.

Whoever took the castle couldn’t clean the rats out of the attic and also couldn’t commit their entire force to defend so we flipped it a number of times with lots of badges, karma and full inventories. TC tried a lot of portals but DB ended up wiping us out head on with a huge force.

Or not really holding, but Karma training :o

Since we ‘held’ it as it flipped multiple times from both DB and TC.

(Forgive the triple post, I don’t know how to attach multiple images to one post)

Or holding SMC and nothing else.

I wasn’t liking the start of this week but actually really started enjoying the fights later on.

I stayed up late in WvW a couple nights and strange and interesting things were happening.

Like painting TC BL red with almost no resistance (even well after the artwork was finished)…

Truearrow.3527:

This was alot of fun this morning since 50 DB decided to show up in our BL and trample everything. We’ve resolved to have fun with stuff like this when things look hopeless, if we have nothing left to defend it will happen again, too much fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7RrSN9Ag6s

LOL epic

Almost all the capping on Mag BL last night was PvD karma trains with no defense (from all 3 sides) while on EB, TC was holding on to Mag garrison with all they had while DB freely capped towers all over the map.

The one lone TC I’ve seen in the past few days was running to the JP and didn’t fight back. After I killed him he partied me and made me feel guilty

Strange week in WvW… though better than last week I guess.

Not a bad idea but I would rather see actual benefits to outnumbered defenders rather than intangible score multipliers that doesn’t actually affect anything in the gameplay.

NPCs of outnumered players could be greatly multiplied and boosted or tower and wall strenghs greatly increased. It wouldn’t necessarily need to be direct stat boosts to players.

Crazy idea with no merit probably but there’s a lot of discontent over how stale and imbalanced some of the matches have been even after paid transfers.

1v1 matches every other week have been suggested and I think are a great idea to switch things around. So what about 2v2 as well? The matchup possibilities are endless but probably would work best with a low-ish tier server allied with a higher tier.

I don’t see the problem here except the ridiculous amount of QQing over new game impovements.

Guesting is working great. I have many friends on different servers. It’s not possible to exploit something when you only get 1 chest per day…

Some servers are relatively more empty so they guest. If you get into overflow so what?

Some people will always find something to cry about but to respond to the OP’s points:

1. Overflows? SO WHAT? The only difference about an overflow is less people (which is directly opposed to your second point)… That said, I’ve never once seen an instance for any of these meta events and I guest to other servers for them too.

2. Lag is from your PC settings the majority of the time. Turn them down or guest to another server.

3. Again, guest to another server or try to get into an overflow. The ‘problem’ is actually the solution.

I was informed there would be Enterprise. Resource. Playin… um. Training Sessions for short, graciously hosted by TC on this thread.

As I have found none of the aforementioned sessions, and an additional number of vicious and disturbing cartoon images, I am requesting compensation for this deception in the form of a worthy shrine (of at minimum, 5 pieces) to it’s majesty, The Great Lord Flame Ram or this one Maguuman shall find the thread entirely unfit for reading!

Acceptable guidelines for posting images of ram shrines:
1. Please do not have rams placed at a gate (that is not a shrine).
2. Please be using the #2 skill on at least 1 ram as proof of respect.

Lately, Maguuma has a queue in EBG (nowhere else) during NA prime weekdays so you would need to be close to matching that to have a chance holding SMC.

EasymodeX.4062:

Zephyrus.9680:

EasymodeX.4062:

DotA / LoL / HoN are “snowball-y”. Seems to be doing ok for those games. Guarantee score matters more in those games than in GW2.

You also haven’t explained why momentum is unnatural.

No because in those games you win very shortly after you/team snowballs. It doesn’t drag on to become pointless.

And whatever do you mean by ‘unnatural’? It’s unnatural to drag on any kind of score-based match for a week when the winner is already decided. Clearly the fun in WvW is not primarily about the score but it just seems like a big flaw in the design.

Drag on? It’s all relative. […]

No it’s not relative to anything and that was my point. On GW2 the match ends after a week, period. Relative to nothing.

On LoL the match ends when your base is destroyed which is based on how well your team did. If it’s looking pointless, you can vote to surrender and end the match immediately. It’s not a relative comparison; it’s completely different because there is nothing that’s dragged on.

But I’m not the one arguing for shorter matches. That won’t really solve any of the imbalances.

WvW is supposed to be a constant battlefield but half the time it’s PvD and maps all one color. Does anyone really enjoy PvD?

We would need more mechanisms to balance the playing field for the underdogs at the time so that everyone is having a challenge, all the time.

Edited OP with some suggestions or ideas how to balance matches. Though I’m curious if WvW is ‘working as intended’ for Anet.

EnRohbi.2187:

Unfortunately,
The difference IS that big between server’s wvw population in most tiers.

What I mean is when a server is winning by a factor of 3 or 4 to 1 in points over 2nd and 3rd, it doesn’t mean they have 3 or 4 times as many people as the 2nd and 3rd servers combined.

It’s too easy for a small difference in numbers or coverage to turn into a huge difference in score.

EasymodeX.4062:

DotA / LoL / HoN are “snowball-y”. Seems to be doing ok for those games. Guarantee score matters more in those games than in GW2.

You also haven’t explained why momentum is unnatural.

No because in those games you win very shortly after you/team snowballs. It doesn’t drag on to become pointless.

And whatever do you mean by ‘unnatural’? It’s unnatural to drag on any kind of score-based match for a week when the winner is already decided. Clearly the fun in WvW is not primarily about the score but it just seems like a big flaw in the design.

EasymodeX.4062:

Are snowballs and momentum a bad thing? Are they unnatural?

In any kind of competition where score is supposed to matter, yes. That’s my opinion anyway. Maybe you prefer winning/losing by a landslide.

Ayestes.1273:

It’s a silly idea to decide not to play any week period if that reason has anything to do with what Tier your WvW is in. I’d rather fight outmanned and outgunned in Tier 3 then do the opposite in Tier 4. I’ve had some awesome fights here in Tier 4 though, nothing against anyone here.

Agreed. I guess what sucks is that we’re stuck somewhere between tier 3 and 4 and until something significant changes elsewhere, we’ll never have even matchups again.

The Problem in Short: Every match is a snowball match and no one is happy with snowball matches. By snowball matches I mean matches with one decisive winner that the other two servers cannot contest.

Q: Is it really EVERY MATCH?
A: Take a look at http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA
7 out of 8! Yes, astonishing 7 out of the 8 tiers are shaping up to be snowball matches with an uncontested winner.

Is this intended and good for WvW? Clearly not.
> Why even play if there’s no risk of your competition overtaking you.
> Why even play if there’s no risk of overtaking your competition.
At least as far as score is concerned.

Why does this ALWAYS happen?
I can’t imagine the massive score differences being due to proportionally massive population differences on every single tier… Presumably it has to be a small difference in population and coverage that spirals out over time and battles into big differences in score. Then as the competition (as far as score is concerned) becomes pointless, morale kicks in and does the rest.

IMO this is the most significant problem with WvW and the one Anet should be putting the most urgency in solving.

- – -

Edit:

Here’s some ideas on how this could be solved in a (hopefully) balanced way that would remain fun for all sides.

- The solutions should primarily be defensive and counterbalance the difference in numbers on the map so the teams with significantly less population at the time have a decent fighting chance at holding and keeping their objectives.

- The solutions should ideally be map-wide and dynamic, changing based on the number of players each side has on the map.

- It should not impact open field fights of even numbers. (Should not be global stat boost to players directly).

Here are some factors that could be changed dynamically based on map populations:
- Stats and numbers of NPCs.
- Outnumbered stat boosts to players near (or inside) their towers.
- Outnumbered stat boosts to anti-personal siege weapons or all siege weapon damage vs players.
- Outnumbered siege damage reduced vs walls and doors.

It’s not only T8. WvW in general needs to be fixed so snowballing matches are the exception, not the norm.

From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t take a big difference in population to have a big effect (over time) on the match. And then moral does the rest.

Since paid transfers are over, we’re still seeing very disproportionate and disapointing matches. What if, for example, the outnumbered team(s) with less players get some powerful roaming AI that could take their camps or escourt dolyaks. Stronger walls, doors, higher damage modifier to their anti-personal siege weapons, etc…

I wonder if Anet is even interested in balancing matches or is it ‘working as intended’?

I’m liking the new CD. In a few hours I already saw more roaming groups from them than from FA the whole match last week. Guessing the zergy SEA guilds went to Kaineng during their rise?

Zerg farming T2 rejects does have its moments but its a shame we have way to many people to stay in t4 forever

When I checked there were 3 queues on reset night and the only open map (Mag BL) was all green. Mag 2.0 only reappears when its not needed… I don’t think I’ll WvW much this week.

GS Pros:
- highest mobility
- 100 blades burst
- Best PvE weapon (most warriors should already have one)
- best looking weapon

GS Cons:
- To take advantage of 100 blades, you need bulls charge/bolas and frenzy which greatly restricts your build.
- Almost no CC on GS
- Very limited usefullness in big zergs (compared to hammer or even long bow)

I played GS a lot on my roaming warrior before I made thief but after switching to hammer I don’t think I’ll ever go back to GS.

IRSyKo.5843:

Sorry guys.

WvW is ZergvZerg. I know a lot of you probably haven’t fought in the upper tiers. But it comes down to who can run more support builds/toughness.

This isn’t a small scale game.

I know you’ve never seen it on yourself but ever noticed the outnumbered icon on your enemies? How could they be holding anything while outnumbered 3, 4, or 5 to 1? How do they still have supply camps and supply in their towers? How can’t your zerg get anything done in these conditions?

The answer to everything, of course, is more zergs, more toughness/support builds! And more blast finishers in fire fields! Interesting I didn’t realize WvW only happens in T1 and maybe even T2… There are like 50 other servers. What have they been doing all this time? :o

Zergwars clips Mag vs FA from earlier this week on EB camping Rogues and more.

http://youtu.be/jBYvSmVx3fY

It should. WvW is way too zerg friendly atm and we get things like 1 queued map and 3 completely empty.

Outmanned is 1:3 ratio right? You can’t really do anything with that difference.

In general WvW also needs a lot more mechanisms to prevent snowballing blowout matches that everyone hates. Maybe something like double stats on NPCs when outnumbered for over 15 minutes. And outnumbered changed to a smaller ratio like 1:2 (if its 1:3 now).

selan.8354:

well this is what happens when a uA, PRO and AVTR gets together, takes off gear and builds a forest….well we dont do flameram forests though…

and yes it went alllll the way to our spawn

This is madness and blasphemy!

OP ought to be infracted. How dare he ask questions that require informative answers!

(bump for Invalid)

Evalana.5480:

katniss.6735

We have no oceanic presence. We can’t “heavily defend” anything. The people who owned the omegas were in their own private guild comm.

P.S. That screenshot doesn’t even explain what you’re talking about.

Allow me to explain -

We got a call out from someone on the map – 2 omegas WALKING to hills north gate unprotected. 5-6 mags showed up with them. They got wiped and abandoned their golems while trying to run away…. and we added the omegas to the scrapyard.

Get better golem stories :P

Week or two ago I remember either FA or Kaineng leaving 3 golems outside the gate while they rushed our garrison. Technically I soloed 2 golems and escaped with my life :o

Or the 3 golems 2 players built to DEFEND our garrison a couple days ago -.-
We didn’t defend it very long…

Later the same 2 players put down a treb in the middle of the road right near SM…

Fortunately I don’t see that very often here.

Columba.9730:

nope, it’s called culling and stealthing between culling. simple really. at least we can see warriors coming. I don’t have any issues with them.

This happened with the old culling system. It was about 1 second. Now it doesn’t. If it does for you its your hardware, and my gfx card is over 4 years old.

Either way, culling is culling. Everyone would like to see that fixed completely.

Shadowkx.2738:

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

Um… You mean like watch any video of any class where they kill a thief? Lol.

Rather than asking for somthing so mundane, just go to WvW and watch any tanky guardian built for small teams who knows what he or she is doing. Or doesn’t… They will win just about 100% of the time even just because retaliation and heals. With equal or even lesser skill, D/D eles will win most of their engagements. So will 1v1 mes if they survive the initial burst (illusions/clones are unaffected by culling), and tanky warriors with the right weapon sets. I don’t know ranger or engineer, those seem weaker vs thieves.

Maybe what you’re seeing most is that thieves always have a 1v1 build because that’s their entire skill set for every weapon (except shortbow I guess). While other classes are generally specced for larger fights which inherently gives them a disadvantage against roaming setups.

TexZero.7910:

Zephyrus.9680:

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Well I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. There’s no consipracy here.

It can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. Theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

I call BS, and i dont mean backstab.

Plenty of videos have been posted showing exactly how to perma stealth and how to stay stealthed. Yes hitting someone as a Thief breaks stealth, however that is not what people are asking for. They want a theif to be knocked out of stealth when damaged, its that simple.

Also, your Zerg busting hammer warrior…Remind me again how it crits for 12k on a squishy and how it’s able to break LoS on a 2 second cooldown and heal to full.

Cause even running a Shout-Heal Hammer warrior you just cannot beat the fight resetting get out of jail free theives currently have.

PS Those skills cooldowns that you are mentioning are stupidly longer than any thieves skill cooldowns.

Try playing the class before BSing people who actually know what they’re talking about.

There’s stealth field leap combo with D/P theif which can stealth without hitting anything but that’s not perma – it takes 9 initiative (out of 10, or 12 with spec)… Having a thief knocked out of stealth on damage would be ridiculous, sorry. Because stealth isn’t an add-on to the class. It’s what their whole skill sets are built around.

What breaks ‘LoS’ on 2 second cd? Try 50s for shadowstep.

And it’s not 12k its 15k crit. That’s what my warrior can hit on squishes with kill shot when I put valk set on. At 1500 range with rifle.

Columba.9730:

nope, there’s evidence all over that thieves can attack and remain stealthed. videos have the evidence. secondly, I can see other classes as they attempt to unload their high cooldown low cast time attacks. unlike thieves that can spam high damage attacks and remain stealthed. lol.

Nope, there’s no conspiracy here. I have a 80 Thief with hundreds of hours in PvP and I’m just informing you the class can’t attack and remain stealth. Period. If you’re referring to some exploit then I don’t care. That’s an exploit.

Thief can attack just after stealth duration ends naturally and then restealth instantly with CnD but that’s a single attack, almost no damage, and it still gives away position.

I’m just pointing out that what you’re asking to be fixed doesn’t literally exist. When people refer to ‘perma stealth thief’ it’s hyperbole. It usually means a thief specced with 15+ points in Shadow Arts for 1 second extra stealth.

Secondly, that’s called class difference. For example, theves don’t have 25k HP + massive toughness + 3 out of 5 of their weapon skills being high AoE CC for example (aka zerg busting hammer warrior).

Daddicus.6128:

I can’t figure out why anybody plays WvWvW. There are no rewards, huge costs, and the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

Thank you.

Open ended battlefield, uneven and constantly changing odds.

Playing sPvP 10 times is no different from 10,000 IMO. But every fight in WvW is always something different.

The score at the end of the week shows how much coverage and people your server has which is hopefully NOT the reason you play WvW. Because that would be incredibly boring.

Other than that, rewards are decent (not as profitable as PvE of course) and costs are low.

WvW is open-ended PvP. If you don’t like it, go back to sPvP or PvE.

Columba.9730:

Happy to see others viewing this as a problem too. However, I think ANet needs to focus only on stealth to prevent perma stealthing. perhaps permastealthing doesn’t happen in spvp, but it’s rampant in wvwvw, as the myriad videos clearly show. Thieves in wvw can and do remain 100% stealthed while attacking the entire time. I doubt this is working as intended, and my guess is that culling enables thieves to bridge stealthed to non stealthed periods. A reveal debuff is more than reasonable and won’t hurt the class. good thieves will manage, others who don’t need to l2p.

First, any attacks that hit will break stealth, AND YES, they will reveal debuff the thief (OP video is an exploit if you didn’t realize yet).

Second, when I’m on my hammer-shout warrior I’m about 5 times more valuable in a zerg than on my thief.

Culling happens whether you’re a thief or any other class and it doesn’t matter if half a zerg is culled or stealth because AoE will hit regardless (and most damage in this game IS AoE).

Not sure what mechanic you would want changed. The D/P ‘perma stealth’ build is hard to play and isn’t even that effective. Everything else uses CnD which needs to hit.

Counters to stealth include stun, daze, blind, dodge, snare. And a bit of burst damage.

If you don’t understand a class, you won’t know the first thing how to fight it and it’s even more significant with thief because even their attacks rely on stealth. I’m guessing that’s why theres so much complaining on the forums, when by comparison, a D/D ele beats theif in almost every category (solo, small scale fights, and zerging).

Nothing new here… Old video of another exploit on the wvw queue to be fixed in the ‘near’ future.

Theves rule in roaming, scouting and small scale fights. In zerg wars they suck.