Guild Wars 2

Titan.3472:

Zephyrus.9680:

Titan.3472:

BG stomp you all and we have little to no GvG guilds so stop lieing yourself kids. GvG is Newbies and Beginners mode, end of story.
Much love. XD

Let me guess, you’re also scared to prove your “skills” in a fight club.

No

Well by attending said fight club, you’re wasting queue space and ought to be banned!

Titan.3472:

BG stomp you all and we have little to no GvG guilds so stop lieing yourself kids. GvG is Newbies and Beginners mode, end of story.
Much love. XD

Let me guess, you’re also scared to prove your “skills” in a fight club.

I can see why it goes over your head but the topic is about strategy and why PPT is meaningless and how the two weaker servers end up fighting for 2nd more often than not. And not because of PPT but because there is no incentive for attacking a stronger opponent with more upgraded defenses.

And your analysis is way off. Did you copy and paste that from Devon Carver? First almost no one cares about PPT because it’s meaningless. 99% predetermined by the match up. Second, people prefer tiers under 1 because they prefer fights that aren’t wtf skill lag 1-spam uber blob perma que.

AggieTechGuy.4901:

Another aspect of this is:

—

GW2 Code Rules of Conduct

“You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel while in Guild Wars 2 or on the official Guild Wars 2 website.”

—

The rule is kind of unclear. What constitutes “authorized personnel”? So any ANet employee can whip out his giant “I’m special” guild tag and start ordering people around?

He was instructing them to “go nuts” while also telling them it’s “violating” his “game mode”. Basically, banned if they do… banned if they dont!

What are you talking about?

lordkrall.7241:

Ragnar.4257:

And GvG is “just happening” too.

The kills are not the intent or purpose, the are a by-product of the fights. Just as in WvW, the kills are not the intent or purpose, they are a by-product of the fights.

Good try though.

No it isn’t.
It is planned fights.

If the kills are not the intent or purpose, why kill?
Why not just leave downed enemies?

Because of this combat mechanic: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

lordkrall.7241:

Aberrant.6749:

It’s an organized fight. Nothing has been SOLD and therefore it’s not kill SELLING.

That is of course a matter of opinion. It can technically be considered selling.
But I suppose trading would be a better word, which would also be against the ToS.

Your idea of kill selling is ridiculous but it doesn’t matter what you or me or anyone else thinks about it. It’s a matter of fact, not opinion. In fact it’s not against the ToS and if they wanted it to be, they would simply announce it.

Nev.5316:

For everyone threatning to quit just do it lol. Nobody is going to care and new players will replace ya guys so goodbye.

Oh hi. Pretty much lost interest a few days after bloodlust came out. Doesn’t mean we can’t post on the forums, in the off chance that devs will actually fix their kittenstorm.

+1 I like the concept. It would would be a step in the right direction though the rewards would also have to be in wxp (both for defenders and attackers) or karma trains would still just work for maximum wxp/hour with no interest in defending.

It would also not solve the issue of servers with large Oceanic populations that overwhelm all maps every night to win by significant margins, while having a very weak day presence. For that, outmanned and bloodlust would have to switch buffs (so simple)…

Then again, I have zero faith that Anet has any interest in balance in WvW. They have already stated they do not and it just seems like higher population servers are supposed to steamroll the other two by design, no matter how stupid this is for all servers involved.

Nev.5316:

Bunch of whining kids who think they are entitled to everything , nothing has changed. G v G ruins wvw for others and the spots taken by the guilds couldve been used by others to attack the enemies cohesively.

Um check the servers… That isn’t T1. Your arguments are invalid.

Andele.1306:

Morons try to play a unsupported game mode, get trolled by a quite humorous asura with power, come and complain to the source of said asura, because kitten logic.

Anet should make a title “exemplary customer” for role models such as these. I would rather “violate” (sic) the “game mode” (sic) and have fun doing it!

Because kitten logic!

Aberrant.6749:

If it’s interfering with the game… next I’ll be given a ban for wanting to do some solo roaming since it doesn’t add to the ppt. Apparently I’m only allowed to do PvD in WvW.

Field fights that don’t contribute to PPT, duels, GvGs are all going against the dev’s vision of WvW.

Creating artificially balanced fights and otherwise having fun in ways that are not intended is pretty much an exploit.

GET PPT OR GET BANNED SON!

Condition duration food is fine. It exactly matches condition reduction food.

It it’s nowhere near “40% more efficient”. Condition removal removes the condition no matter how much time it has.

Lmao that’s just sad. I haven’t felt like playing WvW or GW2 since the bloodlust buffs. The fact that employees would come to antagonize their loyal players just speaks volumes on how much they care about anything WvW players think or say.

Is this an all-purpose complaint thread?

Arkanfel.8403:

meep.2601:

Arkanfel.8403:

Why do people keep saying that +150 to stats is “broken.”

Look at banners. Banner of Strength gives you +170 to Power and condition damage. Banner of defense gives you +170 Vitality and Toughness. Banner of Discipline dishes out more DPS than banner of strength does.

Are banners broken? Are people “too hard” to kill when they’re within banner range? I mean really now this is just getting silly.

The orb buff is not broken. Stop complaining about it.

because banners effect an entire server across 4 maps right? lawl

Point stands. People are talking about the buff like it makes enemies into some kind of unstoppable killing machine. It doesn’t. If you’ve ever killed anyone who had banners down—or better yet, banners + divinity runes—then congratulations, you killed someone with a bigger stat buff than the orbs give.

Really? Banners affect 2 stats, take 1 slot on your skill bar, and don’t move with you everywhere you go… By that logic, +150 all stats are like a whole second utility bar.

If you’ve ever killed someone who had a personal banner buff warrior, grats. Skillz are still skillz but that’s a massive advantage. If zerging is all you do, it might not be as apparent.

ON topic: perplexity runes need a 10-15 second ICD.

Thrumdi.9216:

Velkyn.5168:

What I don’t understand is why someone would willingly put rocks in the way of a healthy and lively, very motivated community in the game.

Those GvG players made their own (not so little) niche all out of nothing, because the game as such still fails to provide any features for real GvG.
But there are enough people enthusiastic enough to organize on their own, make websites for player-managed leaderboards based on good sportsmanship, lots and lots of guilds participating because THIS is the way they want to play.

It is beyond me why such a positive vibe in the playerbase is not getting any official support but rather the opposite.

Yeah, Anet’s reaction is a mystery.

But, my theory is they are sticking to their vision of WvW as “casual PvP”.

This was one of their big selling points pre-launch, that WvW was for people who thought they didn’t like PvP. (A big reason for their being no names visible to enemies). So, this attitude prevents them nurturing a hardcore scene like GvG’s.

But, is there any such thing as casual PvP? I thought there might be when WvW launched, but now I’m not so sure. But now I don’t think so.

You need to allow the dedicated layer of players to flourish.

Casual PvP isn’t even the issue. Casual PvP means you can log in, go to WvW and have a fun PvP experience without needing to set up a team or being restricted to doing any one thing. But PvP in general requires balance.

To be meaningful it always needs to reward skilled play to be fun for competitive players, while to be casual, it needs to still allow less skilled players to be useful and contribute.

Anti-balance features, whatever they are, that don’t contribute to either of the above, are anti-PvP. Anti-pvp is not casual, it’s just bad. Some of it is unavoidable in this context like population and coverage differences (although it could be mitigated by a meaningful outmanned buff). Some of it is simply introduced by developer stupidity.

Their goal was clearly to motivate more options for PvP in WvW (like roaming/small group) but the implementation actually exacerbated a persistent issue that has plagued WvW from the start: population and coverage differences. Population and coverage differences are the reason PPT is meaningless (and leagues will be too). Average all player actions out over the week and it’s all 99% determined by population and coverage. Not any actions by any individual players or guilds. Why should a server be rewarded for having more population and coverage?

Even worse, why should the stronger server be increasingly rewarded with greater power (snowball)? It’s anti-balance and anti-PvP.

Meanwhile, PPT and now leagues gives the illusion of WvW being “competitive”. What a delusional joke. They can put all their work into making a League system but ultimately it’s as meaningless as it’s foundation: PPT.

Ok so maybe it’s 1% meaningfull (player actions) but it’s 99% meaningless (population/coverage). The foundation won’t change no matter how much polish is put on it.

TL;DR: Basically, you can’t build drastic changes that ignore ignore original problems that were never addressed; and you certainly can’t build drastic changes that make the original problems even worse.

^ +1 to those adjustments, I’ve actually suggested some of the same myself. I don’t agree stealth is a poorly designed mechanic though. Whether I’m roaming on ele, thief, or occasionally warrior, fighting a thief is one of the more fun encounters. Whereas a good condition necro, I might as well just lay down and die. Warrior is predictable, guardian is zzz, engineer has few good players. Mes is fun too but beats ele, at least conditions.

The problem with stealth isn’t high level play. It’s low level play where the mechanics seem to be very difficult for new or inexperienced players to deal with. Particularly if you don’t understand a theif’s (very predictable) sequences. The only guaranteed backstab should be one with basilisk venom. Every other BS that hits SHOULD be close to 50% regardless of thief skill because you can turn instantly while a thief has to move to get behind you.

All stealth is predictable at either 3 or 4 seconds (depending on traits) and CnD spam will always need to follow that timer.

KOK.2650:

Zephyrus.9680:

Blue armor or naked is invalid. And your screen is pre-nerf I bet. Because roll a thief, and try to it 20k. You’ll do maybe 5k. And 9 for a crit. Bit more maybe if you can find pure glass light armor in sPvP.

And then you’ll take a 9k hit and instantly die…

You do know that sPvP and WvW is a totally different thing. right?
11k and above is totally possible.
Just because you can’t do it doesn’t mean it can’t be done
By the way 20k is dmg in one timestamp, meaning steal, c&D and BS+ lightning.
Due to WvW lag, most of the time it is unavoidable.
Most of the people who claim to play bababa class (other than thief ) and said they killed thief all the time has never been on the receiving end of this combo. And they always claim that people they hit are in blue gear (ROFL)

Yes and 20k backstab can’t be done period.

Btw, if you have 1k ping and no stun break you’ll take 20k from a zerker mes and alot more than 20k from a zerker war.

Zenguy.6421:

That post by Devon is 100% consistent with the changes Anet have made to GW2 this year. I think Devon did us a great favour posting as candidly as he did, because his post is making it very hard for ANet to pretend that isn’t how they’ve been operating.

It’s not that Anet haven’t pay attention to these forums – they clearly have, as evidenced by the fact that they make changes that we’ve requested: e.g. gameplay that rewards multiple groups over monolithic zergs; more opportunities for roamers and small groups; new content in the WvW maps – all things we’ve been asking for.

However, it appears that Anet’s attention to these forums stops once they’ve collected a list of ideas about areas where we want changes. It’s as though, once they’ve got that list, they then ignore anything further we might have to say about the priority or nature of the changes we want. Instead they pick some items off that list that involve new content and go off to develop those according to their own ideas, independent of anything we might have to say on the subject. (This game is over 1yo now, so they shouldn’t still be putting time into getting areas of the game to work – just look at how much new GW2 content Anet have rolled out!) This is why they can deliver a poorly thought out WXP system, some map changes and a game breaking (and now performance killing) buff we’ve been protesting about for months, while ignoring some of our top complaints (e.g. the broken party system, the stone age commander tags).

ANet don’t seem to have recognized that WvW needs work on its foundations and simply piling on new content is only making things worse. The original WvW didn’t need WXP progression, PvP maps or power buffs to make it a success, it already had most of what it needed. What’s been missing are tweaks to the combat, rewards and server systems to make match-ups more interesting and encourage more diverse styles of WvW gameplay; that, and a few QoL changes (most notably to the commander system).

Instead, Anet’s blinkered drive to deliver new content combined with their practice of cherry-picking the forums for ideas for new content and side-lining anything else, has meant that WvW still isn’t working properly at its core. The starkest illustration of this is that Anet are charging blindly into the new WvW leagues their ears firmly stopped up against the now overwhelming cries that those leagues are doom to failure.

The disaster of this latest patch gives Anet an unprecedented opportunity to get off the content treadmill they’re on with WvW and go to work on the underlying problems that are holding back WvW. I hope they take this chance.

Big +1

Obscure One.4357:

Heizero.9183:

mini.6018:

Heizero.9183:

I am really concerned that people in this thread talk about 15-16k BS crits…. i mean seriously. You would have to be naked and traited for 0 defense while fighting a full glass cannon thief that can get 2 shotted himself.

On a squishy target i crit about 6k or 7k on my thief. I don’t usually care about threads like this since i love my Thief. But blatant lies to trash another class is pretty gross.

As a matter of fact it is not bs at all xd.Check the warrior forums for 11.5 k crits backstab on 3400 armor.There are builds allowing huge backstabs especially in wvw.Heck even s/d thieves can do 5-7k.Maybe you are not using a heavy dps focused build.

“BS” is an acronym for Backstab. Idc about the warrior forums. an 11.5k BS is possible, that is not a 16k. And that build ditches all defense, even utility skills making the Thief EXTREMELY vulnerable and more of a suicide bomber than anything. My point is saying thieves have tons of survivability, condi removal, mobility, AND can crit at that level is a lie. period. There are not enough traits in the game to make that possible.

I have a screen shot of a 20k back stab from the receiving end. Your argument is invalid.

Blue armor or naked is invalid. And your screen is pre-nerf I bet. Because roll a thief, and try to it 20k. You’ll do maybe 5k. And 9 for a crit. Bit more maybe if you can find pure glass light armor in sPvP.

And then you’ll take a 9k hit and instantly die…

insanemaniac.2456:

they arent apathetic.

they have a vision for what they want wvw to be.

a lot of the official forum community has a different vision.

they listen to our concerns. but they do not talk to us, probably because they have a misguided, secretive sense of what sort of information needs to be kept from us about how the company operates.

but they definitely care about wvw and think what they are doing will help.

we are merely expected to play, not analyze the problems we think we find while playing. because thats their job. even though we probably face the issues theyre thinking about 10x as much with at least 10000x as much brainpower.

I agree with what you’re saying but there’s no such thing as “official forum community”. That’s Devon Carver’s delusion but the forum community IS the WvW community. It’s not some special vocal minority.

Ulion.5476:

If someone has better gear you can still outplay them. Do you complain when someone beat you because that have food, exotics, or legendaries? In zerg fights 50vs50 with 3bloodlust (6% all stat) it like 50 vs 53. Bloodlust is comparable to a 2-6% all stat advantage, so that only come into play if you are equally skilled. The nodes have increased the amount of roamers. Some player have to group up before they roam. Also, GTA is out, so GW2 will lose some people to that.

You can’t even measure it like that. Theoretically, someone with double stats would be FAR more powerful than two players with normal stats. 50 vs 50 where one side has bloodlust is a much greater difference than 50vs53 would be.

+1 OP too

First, capturing the ruins points should give wxp, gold, and karma like any other objective. No idea why this was left out, it’s beyond me why Anet loves to exclusively reward zerging as the only activity even close to being profitable in WvW. Roamers are still a charity case as far as rewards go — even more than before.

Second, the snowball issue is still there as predicted. Good roaming population is nice but in tiers under 2, night coverage varies greatly and while one server has 15 another can have 60+ and you know who will have all 3 buffs which is a huge snowball mechanic and anti-balance. Alamo-ing is often possible at a chokepoint and holding out overnight but add on +150 stats for those 60 and you might as well ask all servers, why even come to WvW at these times? The 60 will paint all maps their color and then WvW is over for everyone for the next 10 hours.

SOLUTION: If one server is outmanning both (has to be both) other servers on a map, that server should lose bloodlust for that map or until outmanned ends. There is no reason for the server with 3x+ more people to also have a huge stat boost.

Though TBH, I think the current bloodlust should just be switched with the current outmanned (and multiplying that reward by 3, 1 for each bl) but that’s already suggested. For whatever reason, devs (one of them) seem scared of giving the weaker team any type of combat bonus while if the team with overwhelming numbers has it (and they always will), no problemo…

In the meta now, Bloodlust is only balanced for T1 right now and defense is a joke. There’s MASSIVE karma training in T3 right now. I don’t mind massive wxp/hr but is this Anet’s long-term vision of WvW?

Well EBay have fun roamers duelists when they’re not doing 2/3v1. I guess the rest of the time will be moar karma trains.

Zenguy.6421:

To be clear, the Roamer’s paradise is the new capture locations and mechanism, not the buff that’s given as a reward.

The buff itself hurts the majority of roamers in unbalanced match-ups (which is most of them).

+1. Heavy roamer here and it’s nice to have objectives roamers can contribute to but that has nothing to do with the snowball issues caused by a stat buff.

So.. Thanks but no thanks Anet.

Le Rooster.8715:

I want habib back, he seemed like a cool guy.

Other rarely used counters:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilized
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aoe
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/skill?s=t

Problem with sPvP is that it’s about capturing points more than fighting.

Recently I got bored to death of thief and switched to ele again for roaming. The funny thing is d/p thief is so much easier to kill on my ele than thief (while d/d is easy regardless). Ele has knockdowns, AoE, sustain, and better defense (protection).

Fact is, when two very good players of thief and another class face off, the thief is not disproportionately the winner. This is the case in every fight club or impromptu duel session I’ve attended as well.

It’s just that serious roamers will tend to gravitate to a class that can disengage when a 1v2, for example, becomes a 1v10. And any roamer knows how often this happens in WvW. I would imagine most thief players are much more skilled at 1v1 and small scale combat than the average Joe of any other class (since small scale/roaming is the only thing thief can effectively do).

The fact that stealth and mobility are two of the strong points in the class and you can’t kill them with just button mashing all the big skills (unless you’re a condition bomb necro), or zerging them down with 5+ people like you can with other roamers, is not actually a balance issue. Bad thief players will run from 90% of their fights regardless and will disengage if you seem even a little bit scary. Rather than be annoyed they could ran away, laugh and move on – it’s one of their class strengths and an annoyance at most, not a balance issue. Ele and mesmer have no problems disengaging fights either if they save the resources to do so.

I think you’re putting way to much analysis into a typical offhand response/excuse from a dev.

Regarding class balance, there’s 2 contexts, 1v1/small group and zerg/large scale and since both are part of the same game mode, it can be impossible to balance every aspect of each across every single class while still keeping a variety of weapon sets and skills viable in each context. This is one of the better points with GW2 (following from GW1) where other games commonly fall on their face.

The real issue is with WvW and population/combat balance in particular. They do try to balance some population issues by adding things like outmanned buff (as meaningless as it is), and breakout which can be significant. While removing things like orb buffs that actively work against balance. The problem is devs are kind of clueless about a lot of things that a veteran WvW player would notice every day.

For example when they were hinting at ‘big’ changes that would help smaller defending teams and balance out coverage differneces, these changes actually turned out to be a massive AC buff. Just about every WvW player knew immediately from day 1 that this was way overbuffed. In this case, clear consensus from the players was spot on, and ACs were nerfed again some weeks later.

It seems like a similar case against these new stat buffs of dev’s vision vs player’s experience. I guess we’ll see how it will actually play out.

But the long and short of it is, competitive balance is an essential pillar for any PvP game or mode. In WvW it’s not the only consideration (there’s levels, gear, character/wxp progression, population difference, etc…) but no matter what developers say, they always have to work within the context of balanced combat because that’s what makes PvP.

Stealth isn’t that bad. But the change I suggested a while ago is a 1 second revealed on exiting stealth (without an attack).

This would add a little more urgency in thief gameplay that would force plays or be punished.

Chris.3290:

This game does favor damage output in 1v1 situations. A full glass, zerker thief can trait into backstab and can easily hit you for 8k damage.

However, hammer warriors aren’t meant for running solo and shouldn’t be setup that way anyhow. If you didn’t do hammer shock, healing surge, then earthshaker in the first 2 seconds following the backstab, then you are doing something wrong as well.

Depends on class and build but certainly does not favor damage over defense and sustain.

They also merged all the bloodlust topics into a meaningless mess lol

DevonCarver.5370:

timidobserver.7925:

People already harass each other over enough stuff. Whether it be builds, what profession they are running, what food they are running, and so on. I’d suggest removing the idea of controlling that from consideration when making these decisions.

This argument boils down to “Well it’s happening already. So let’s just do whatever.” I agree that people harass other people and part of what we try and do is mitigate that. So, we wouldn’t make a change that would exacerbate that, unless it had a major pay off. This doesn’t fit that criteria.

Um…. In hundreds of hours playing I’ve NEVER seen that happen. First, NO ONE is keeping track of who’s on the map, second, no one knows the exact outnumbered math, and third NO ONE really assumes they have a right to be on the map and another player doesn’t. Forth, if the buff were scaled with numbers, no one would care about losing 1-2 stats at a time, or even notice. Edit: Particularly since it’s all dependent on the enemy team’s size which is out of everyone’s control.

Meanwhile it would actually have a real effect on creating a more balanced battlefield which everyone would appreciate.

If you don’t play the game, at least listen to the people who do. People only harass each other over stupidity like bad siege placement or claiming a keep without using buffs. And that’s because it’s deserved.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Klawlyt.6507:

• Ruins of Power in WvW – The first real, meaningful change to WvW that wasn’t just a fix.

Actually they are a replacement for the orb mechanic, so it’s kind of a fix.

Rehash of an already proven broken mechanic.

Karma (wxp) train more. With bloodlust and ram masteries it will be easy mode wxp.

Vena.8436:

Can we just stop all the deceptive foreplay at this point? Let’s just say it the way we want to say it: “I want buff X because it won’t imbalance my preferred gameplay Y. I don’t care if it imbalances Z.”

X = anything except global stat buff (open to almost any option)
Y = balanced non-snowbally game play
Z = snowbally gameplay

Or

X = stat buff
Y = snowball gameplay favoring the larger team
Z = outnumbered team, 1v1s.

Not symmetrical at all. Maybe it’s just you deceiving yourself. This buff will really only be interesting when two teams are queuing the map (and fighting each other). It will also help karma trains as the offensive force will already have established control of the buffs before they hit anything. The rest of the time it will just be annoying.

No, they would rather add stat buffs that favor the team that can field greater numbers.

So you stacked armor to pointless levels and were countered anyway by conditions. GG.

Condition damage ignores armor but if you think armor is useless you’re bad. If you think armor is the only important defense stat, just as bad.

If you’re in a party it helps with tagging. But in general, keep lords, tower lords, camp supervisors, and SM lord should be stronger regardless. A keep lord for example should not be able to be soloed in any circumstance.

Fuzzion.2504:

YES. Because someone of us enjoy the rewards of winning.

I’m sure there are some, but most don’t like snowballs and snowball mechanics. Not even good for Karma trains.

Seems like spawn camping would be the easiest way to hold all the buffs.

I put a little in almost all the skill lines because of the huge return on investment for the first point or two in each. The rest is going to guard defense for the stat buff (guard attack is equally legitimate if you can use both condition dmg and power).

What a long winded rant of dev kitten kissing… First you say accommodating more game-play modes is a bad thing because it splits the population. Certainly a fallacious and naive argument because player population is not a static resource and they will either play or not if the game accommodates what they want. New game modes always attracts more players to the game and keeps the existing players happy. But then in a contradiction, you also say the developers should do w/e the hell they want and if it causes competitive players to leave that’s good(?). I guess for casual players like yourself – ok so that’s a troll not an argument.

To refute the false assumption that the opposition to a stat buff is all about GvG and a very small minority, take a look at this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Vote-Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

No, it seems more like a very large majority with very good reasons.

And second, the unoriginal argument that GvG is threat to WvW is refuted by the fact that GvG guilds are made out of dedicated WvW players (GvG is not the main activity).

Anyway, I’m so glad I’m not in T1 that (based on what I’ve been reading) only cares about its queue times and PPT. By the same criteria, anyone found akitteng or even gathering mats must be sent to the gas chambers for their queue spot wasting… And I can’t even imagine what happens to uplevels that are not only taking valuable queue spots but also rally bait.

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

Xsorus.2507:

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

i doubt i can convey all the details, but it basically started with warrior hammer trains exerting tremendous aoe CC. then Red Guard discovered how to beat the game by stacking mostly PVT guards for perma stability and better sustain, a couple of hammer warriors, and a few very talented casters. this change in meta in turn encouraged everyone to bring out more power wellmancers and glassy backliners to melt the guardian powerline. and finally, we have now seen a very FUN meta evolution of backline pressure and periphery play, which involves other specs with sole purpose of eliminating the backliners.

where it’s gonna go next is very interesting, but as i said, it keeps evolving. now you humour me, and describe how the spvp and WvW duel metas havent DEvolved.

Xsorus.2507:

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

watch some of ogre’s GvG reports. top GvG’ers are probably some of the best pvpers in the game, and they have to know their profs inside and out. some of the best ones spend most of their time dueling and small ganging in WvW. the jousts place more emphasis on cohesion and altruism, instead of just lookin’ out for #1 (yourself). there are many maneuvers to master and when kitten hits the fan as it often does, if youre not a good pvper, you will get melted. lots of guilds try to emulate this organization and sometimes even fall apart attempting. you should know how hard this can be just from your roams with AoN (which i believe u did a while back?). in all honesty, i think a lot of new guilds fall apart when they try to emulate this when people arent ready, because the atmosphere can seem so rigid and elitist unless everyone is on the exact same page.

but only few are very good at this. perhaps youve only watched the lower tier guilds in action? i didnt enjoy watching GvG’s until i took part in some myself, and then i started seeing techniques and maneuvers i didnt see before.

GvG is just another way of playing the game. it’s the next level of GvZ, just like tournaments were the next level of hotjoin a while back.

So the meta hasn’t changed.

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

Did you even read the text you quoted?

Xsorus.2507:

Zephyrus.9680:

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

…

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

Why should he? Just watch some of the top GvG guilds, how they try to counter each other and develop their tactics and comp.

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

I want to hear what the current Meta for GvG is, and how it has evolved…If you can describe it i’d love to hear it.

Off topic and I don’t spectate a lot of GvGs but ok. From what I’ve seen, guardian and warrior-heavy hammer stability trains are the big thing. But it may be moving more towards necros as a counter to stability which could also lead to eles as DPS backlines rather than support. Stability does seem overpowering in the GvG meta from the matches I’ve seen.

Dual.8953:

Zephyrus.9680:

Dual.8953:

Zephyrus.9680:

Vena.8436:

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly I’d rather the buff were entirely reward orientated, which wouldn’t step on either side’s toes. +50% XP, MF, WXP. Maybe to make the buff more meaningful, you get twice or three times as many points for stomps. I don’t think that’s enough of a “gamechanger” for Anet though, which is why I made those other suggestions.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the whole point of making it “stats” and a “game changer” is to force people to care about it. The same way no one cares about Outmanned now, is the same way no one will care about Bloodlust if all it did was give you PvE rewards.

But that’s the opposite of what it should be. Why reward the stronger team with MORE power? Already tried with orbs, already failed. You just get one team that snowballs which is boring for everyone all around.

So switch the new bloodlust buff with the current outmanned. The outmanned team gets a small stat boost to help balance the combat, the dominant team gets greater rewards.

And who would waste their time getting a minor MF bonus when they could be getting towers? Southsun already showed us that not even +300% MF makes a noticeable difference. If no one would care about the points, there’d be no grand open battles trying to get them, no new tactics, just the same old WvW with the odd roamers grabbing them because they happen to be in the area.
The beauty of these control points is small groups can aid their servers in ways they never could before. They can be more places then a blob can and play keep away with the blob rather easily. This’d make commanders have to think. They’d have to become more coordinated and split up. If a server has a good set of coordinated strategists and disciplined fighters, they’d be able to perform some really interesting plays. All they need is good communication and incentive. Idealy then, WvW would evolve into a game that weighs strategy, discipline, communication and coordination over simple brute force tactics.

That doesn’t address the issue we already saw with orbs. You’re trying to generalize “skill” across the entire WvW population which is meaningless. It’s human nature to believe otherwise but when you generalize ‘skill’ across a large random population, the only result can be numbers (brute force).

The priority will be clear to everyone and ultimately the server with the best coverage and numbers will best maintain control of the buffs. This causes the stronger server to become even stronger and makes fights even more uneven. It directly contradicts what you’re trying to argue in the last sentence.

Also, magic find? I care about WXP. No repair costs is nice too and would certainly help promote open field fights.

What serious commander is going to care about loot when their Garrison is under attack? What serious commander is going to fight another commander over a loot buff when that enemy commander has left their keep unguarded? How can a blob be in 15 places at once?

Why are you referring to tactics and strategy again when I already addressed that? Everyone has the option to do tactics so you can present an infinite number of tactical hypotheticals and ALL of them have nothing to do with buffs except incidentally as strategic objectives. NOT everyone has the option to do numbers though and the bottom line is that higher numbers can and will end up doing things lower numbers can’t.

So again, please explain how these new buffs somehow ignore the snowball problem that we saw with orbs. They won’t. They will favor the larger team which has the resources to take and hold them, and this will cause a snowball that everyone hates.

Here’s how your tactical hypotheticals will actually play out. The commander with the larger numbers will take the buffs and post a scout or two, then proceed to take the Keep you mentioned with the ease of buffed stats. Then they will do the same with every other objective… There goes your tactics. Really no serious WvW player likes snowballs (welcome to prove me wrong).

Nothing to discuss, it’s just a population/coverage contest like always.

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

…

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

Why should he? Just watch some of the top GvG guilds, how they try to counter each other and develop their tactics and comp.