Guild Wars 2

Edit: actually not sure if I understand the OP. Is each division supposed to be entirely for PPT modifier?

Or is it a separate match (vs separate server)? So essentially there are 3 different matches each week (vs different servers), that are active at different times of the day.

First case I don’t really agree with – seems like the wrong way to do it. Second one I like. It would be perfect for combat although it would disturb continuity.

This is not new. Anet has already stated to report them with evidence.

Good writeup. Though some of it is very conditional and not a hard rule.

Dabachelor.1736:

good write up man! Lengthy but good stuff although you know scouting is a crappy job but it has to be done.

Lies, roaming is fun!

More people in WvW is good, even if they come with a learning curve.

More rewards for WvW is fine. WvW is all I do and I have absolutely no problem getting some bonus achievement points and chests in the process.

T1 created its own problems. Fix them.

Also, I can’t help but notice the spinning.

WvW players see those seeking points as saboteurs who need to leave. The queue times are longer. They don’t always follow commanders or help out WvW. WvW players are doing jumping puzzles or something they normally would not do. It also makes Eternal Battlegrounds much harder to get in and much harder to want to leave.

I’m not on SoR but from the matchup thread, it seemed like this was one of your stronger WvW guilds trying to sabotage it. While another of your commanders was using your borderlands to openly karma train… Until mag took the garrison and wouldn’t give it back the whole day until most went to sleep.

Not that karma trains are necessarily bad. But they’re not new with Leagues and they’re not going away till the PPT and reward system gets fixed to be weighed on upgrades and score rather than empty non-upgraded towers/keeps/castles.

Nuked.2360:

The kitten room !

The 5 small cats and 5 oversized rats room?

Either your counting is wrong or it’s a broken queue.

If you want solid evidence for a broken queue, get everyone on the queued map together and count them. Otherwise Anet will never know, because as is, it just looks like a conspiracy theory.

Was some good fights at JQ garri till they gave up. It should be free to take back now or soon.

Yaro.3251:

Zephyrus.9680:

There’s no incentive to play WvW as a strategy game. And that’s a flaw.

I’m sure some commanders and most of community leads would disagree with you, but for the rest – yeah. Not sure if they (“rest”) are into strategy though.

As a side note, if you need an extra incentive (other than the process itself), the activity you need it for is not fun as it is to begin with. So what’s the point then?

Ok so some people do play for PPT. And occasionally it does matter. Which reinforces the point that it should be improved/fixed.

But the point is another reason to play. There’s no such thing as a singular ‘process itself’ as you seemed to recognize in the first sentence. People play for different and multiple reasons. Even just the season achievements as we’ve all noticed is a huge incentive.

I see more warriors than thieves now.

Yaro.3251:

1. Initial “pure” glicko-based tiers. Lead to stagnation and servers being locked in unbalanced matchups for ages
2. Mildly randomized (within certain rating range) matchups surprisingly still lead to unbalanced matchups. It’s either you (royal “You”, server) stomp or you being stomped. With occasional fair weeks.
3. Seasons. Ultimate equalizer. Everyone will get a chance to meet everyone. But look, there are still unbalanced matchups happening! Not fair, not fun!

TL:DR meh

That’s thinking inside the box as if those are the only logical possibilities. All of these use the same flawed PPT system that encourages karma training weak objectives/servers, lack of defense, and in general lack of WvW strategy. Strategy SHOULD be fun. But it’s boring for a reason… because the system is flawed and meaningless. Stacking new features on flawed foundations lead to flawed features.

Seasons are great for match making (for Maguuma at least) but PPT is still meaningless. More than ever. There’s no incentive to play WvW as a strategy game. And that’s a flaw.

Aurust.8961:

I thought i’d pop in here and let JQ and SOS know that MAG doesn’t care at all about ppt and just want great fights. Also they have the best roamers.

Also, we secretly pay for transfers. Apparently.

+1 for fight club. I thought they went out of style or something…

Yaro.3251:

Ricky.4706:

thanks for explaining guildwars 2 is a platform for bullies.

Which game is that? The one that revolves around the idea of killing (inflicting damage to) other living beings? And making things to be more effective at killing other living beings? And gathering things to make better things to be more effective at killing other living beings?

Oh, and looking gorgeous in the process. With little sneaky mind-altering cop out of resurrection.

That game, right?

So.. what was your concern again?..

Snowball mechanics. PPT is meaningless. Therefore leagues meaningless and predetermined. Bigger and bigger zerging meta encouraged. 2v1 karma training on the weakest side as legitimate strategy (for PPT even). Etc…

It can’t be ‘fair’ on everything. Open world combat will always have open ended situations. But snowballing inherent imbalances for example with mechanics that strengthen the already stronger team, is categorically bad for any PvP game or mode. There are three sides and they all want a challenge. Don’t they?

Ghoulina.2976:

SmoothHussler.6387:

Eternum.1706:

It’s really ticking me off that people are acting like this towards JQ as if we wanted this, or that this is our fault. .

So we’ll just ignore all the recruitment threads and the fact that your server pays for transfers then.

Statements about paying for transfers to servers are so ignorant. Any server I’ve ever been on does this (from T8 through T1). Not just for WvW, but also for the PvE community. So to act like T1 is the only place this exists, is ridiculous, to act like your server is innocent of this, is also ignorant.

We’re a great community, we will always welcome people to share in our community, but trust me, asking for 8 hour queues, skill lag out the posterior, isn’t on the menu.

Oh wait, here’s an add for Mag, right there at the top of the recruitment forums.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/Maguuma-IS-looking-for-MORE-Oceanic-SEA
And here’s SoS https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/Sea-of-Sorrows-Version-3-0

Pot, meet kettle.

I don’t know how you think that. Most servers recruit time slots they need. Some servers recruit everyone they can. Only special servers pay for transfers. It seems to have an effect on the average player quality too.

I guess some people have never heard of the desire (of most players, I think) for genuinely great fights. Implying something close to numerical balance. As well as GvGs, impromptu duels (honor among roamers), and fight clubs.

Keep on with the non-competitive zerging and band wagons OP. PPT, leagues, and all the flawed features of this game mode are designed for you. For the rest of us, these things are meaningless. We’ll keep farming badges and WXP and looking for good fights.

Edit: I’ll just add that even Devs agree there are problems with the PPT system.

Leagues (PPT) were supposed to be competitive?

I didn’t think Anet was kidding anyone except themselves.

Seems like lots of fun 1vX fights to be found vs JQ. I think I’ll put in some time roaming this week.

OCX time is a lot more fun when there’s two giants busy fighting each other. I’m surprised how well our EB keep has held considering the usual lack of organization there.

That’s the wrong direction. Rather than buff down state to make it even stronger than ‘up’ state, they should remove rally from the game entirely. Or limit rally to 1 player. That way the rally bait doesn’t penalize the rest of their team when they go down all the time.

Sirendor.1394:

Svarty.8019:

If they dynamically incentivise attacking the leading side, things will change dramatically.

How would you reach this goal? (purely out of interest) ;p

By weighing rewards with a coefficient based on the current PPT and total score of the server being attacked. And while they’re at it, make the level of upgrades matter for the PPT and also capture/defense reward.

It would stop 2v1s on the weakest side, take out karma trains as legitimate tactics, add some strategic depth to WvW, and reward epic sieges with more than just the same WXP as a karma train.

Engi, Warrior or thief for solo roamer. Guardan or Ele, for zerg/teamplay.

I like the idea of mobile ballistas if they were like 1/2 the speed of golems. They do have wheels on the model afterall. This would also mitigate some of their LoS problems which is what limits their use so much now.

luckywaldo.6089:

Zylonite.5913:

It is a core latency problem in distributed system and latency between network nodes and the client/server side.

Elaborate, please.

He’s basically saying that it’s a technical limitation with CPU power/bandwidth. It’s certainly not limited to GW2. And it’s more because cpu processes/data transfer increases logarithmically, not linearly, with the number of players in a battle.

In short, servers aren’t fast enough in general for that kind of real time process. So realistically, if you want less skill lag, you have to reduce something else like AoE cap or player limits in maps.

Find zerg
Press 1
$$$

TyPin.9860:

And what about the lower mid tier servers? Are they of the smae kind? The queues go down to the lowest silver league servers. No idea about bronce league. It’s not all T1 who have queues. Your “argument” is not valid friend. To say queues are the player’s fault, even if arround 70% of the servers have this queue problem. There are those, who transferred to high tier server to get awarded, but that’s not all. And the players who have their home on this servers should now change to the lowest tier servers, because of all the greedy “I wanna go to top tier to get best reward”-players? Is that rly what u’re saying?

That’s just odd because T2 (except TC maybe) doesn’t have queues on all maps. Maguuma seems to have 2 queues at NA prime and Mag is #4 in terms of NA strength… maybe by quality not quantity then.

Or maybe it’s based on high PvE population as much as WvW tier? Either way it’s worst by far on T1 and you can transfer down (or up?) to avoid the problem.

For queues you only have yourself to blame. Don’t kid yourself into believing you have higher priority in WvW just because you play it more often.

Seems they’re having queue and lag problems?

Aaron.4807:

Draygo.9473:

I’m on a server with no queues. You can transfer to a server with no queues as well.

What about those players that actually give a kitten about their community and built is from the ground up over the course of a year? Like SoR? Telling people to transfer so they can play the game mode that was the REASON WE BOUGHT THIS GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE is not a valid argument.

You mean the people who paid for other player’s transfer costs to your server? Maybe it’s time for top tiers to transfer DOWN for a change.

Maybe time for T1/T2 to transfer to lower wvw pop servers?

I think more players is good for WvW balance as a whole. Even if they’re from PvE.

I haven’t seen lag in the last 2 days except minor skill lag in 1 big queued fight.

Use a build that can solo camps (every class can do it). You should find fights that way both defense and offense and have something to do in between. You’ll also notice other roamers follow predictable patterns so you can catch them that way.

Would be good if PPT and rewards were based on upgrades. But you can always move to a server that likes to defend. Mag certainly does and I think FA too. Not sure who else.

Aurust.8961:

Zephyrus.9680:

Aurust.8961:

Truearrow.3527:

Aurust.8961:

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

Fingers crossed for an SoR/SoS/Mag for the inaugural league matchup tonight.

That would be an interesting matchup IF SOS and MAG agree to double team SOR hardcore…. I mean SOR will still completely destroy them but there will be fights atleast.

Im pretty sure i would speak for the rest of SOR, that we would welcome an official 2v1 in that scenario…..

You are in for a surprise if you think anything about Maguuma will be a “pushover” scenario, ask Jade Quarry or Tarnished Coast, you will have your hands full with us let alone SoS, we can que 4 maps with skilled guilds and pubbies.
Many thanks to our dedicated guilds and players, Paralda/Pyro, Diviniya and Razi/Ark, Bony/DERP, Xushin and his pain train for making this happen. We pulled together as a server and got it done against the odds and efforts to the contrary. I’m very proud to be Maguuma right now. 7 weeks of tears gold league, that’s what you are in for, come at us bros, kitten ppt, give us an open field to wreck you in or a smoking hole in the side of a tower or keep to farm you in.

You lost to SBI, we just had SBI and SOS, our hands were most definitely not full…….. Ill give it a day before the debate about who has better roamers starts due to Maguuma QQ.

Your PPT logic is superb.

And your point is what now? The way i see it the poster I was replying to was using PPT logic, you came out of no where to throw a strawman…….

Just what I said. You think winning is about PPT and coverage. Gold league for Mag is about the fights. I think you’ll find Mag places no significance on PPT now that we’re locked in Gold. Cya on the field.

Aurust.8961:

Truearrow.3527:

Aurust.8961:

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

Fingers crossed for an SoR/SoS/Mag for the inaugural league matchup tonight.

That would be an interesting matchup IF SOS and MAG agree to double team SOR hardcore…. I mean SOR will still completely destroy them but there will be fights atleast.

Im pretty sure i would speak for the rest of SOR, that we would welcome an official 2v1 in that scenario…..

You are in for a surprise if you think anything about Maguuma will be a “pushover” scenario, ask Jade Quarry or Tarnished Coast, you will have your hands full with us let alone SoS, we can que 4 maps with skilled guilds and pubbies.
Many thanks to our dedicated guilds and players, Paralda/Pyro, Diviniya and Razi/Ark, Bony/DERP, Xushin and his pain train for making this happen. We pulled together as a server and got it done against the odds and efforts to the contrary. I’m very proud to be Maguuma right now. 7 weeks of tears gold league, that’s what you are in for, come at us bros, kitten ppt, give us an open field to wreck you in or a smoking hole in the side of a tower or keep to farm you in.

You lost to SBI, we just had SBI and SOS, our hands were most definitely not full…….. Ill give it a day before the debate about who has better roamers starts due to Maguuma QQ.

Your PPT logic is superb.

Mobility is already balanced. There’s a difference between balanced and equal. If you say balanced but mean equal, then essentially you didn’t want Anet to create more than 1 class in the game. Class difference is a thing, and it’s intended.

1. weighed rewards based on each team’s total score and current tick to allow for organic 2v1s on the stronger server(s).

2. weighed reward AND ppt on objectives based on levels of upgrades so karma training stops being the dominant strategy.

IronZ.7185:

Chris.3290:

Mags is looking good now because of their EU. However FA will dominate PPT in NA and they will tick over 600 overnight.

It’s over for any on SBI who still have hopes of Silver.

let me laugh at this, FA is nothing for Mag…

6 am EST. This is Maguuma in tryhard mode son!

SoR aka badge factory is smart to be scared

Actinotus.6410:

stoat.4257:

CORE just transferred to FA and is currently running a fairly large zerg so will likely keep mag’s ppt down tonight – if they stay up a few more hours they can probably start taking everything. Depending if SoR just goes into a karma train mode SBI still has a chance for gold.

I reckon FA has a good chance to overtake Mags and SBI.

Rating difference between FA and Mags is less than 8 points at the moment with FA currently ticking +630 ppt.

FA still has no chance. But the competition between SBI and Mag has heated up again because of the FA transfers. Or maybe its a SBI/SoS kitten ing contest. I imagine T1 servers stand to gain another bandwagon if SBI ends up in gold.

I don’t think most of them want gold either but they’ve pushed up their projected rating a bit from the last few days while Mag has stayed about the same. Normally we would have gone up in the week but I guess new transfers to FA are the reason for that. FA can consistently queue a map at 2 am now unless that’s not new. Mag/SBI is going to end within 3 or 4 points but I would put the money on Mag.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

[…]

Metagame – The composition of deck archetypes in a particular format/tournament.

“The metagame where I live is mostly a lot of combo, with some beatdown thrown in.”

This is also an advanced Magic concept where you build/choose decks based on the expected metagame at a tournament in an attempt to beat them. “Zvi Mowshowitz won Pro Tour Tokyo ’01 by metagaming against red.”

- Source:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/academy/9

I think this is sufficient in properly debunking the following comment:

Zephyrus.9680:

I don’t know the source for the definitions you quoted for ‘metagame’ in the OP but it’s kind of way off normal uses.

Lol this is exactly how the term is used in games. Same meaning as in GW1 like 8-10 years ago. Maybe you just misunderstand the meaning.

So I’m not getting how you think the use above differs from the use in GW2 (and other games).

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Zephyrus.9680:

But meta also means ‘beyond’ (e.g. metaphysics).

Is not technically correct, see ‘meta-’ prefix from original post.

It certainly is correct… Again, I’m left wondering where you pull this information from. Anyway if you’re going to make up your own special strict definitions, I won’t try to stop you.

Soon.5240:

Meta means “Metaphysical” — in reference to an ideal build (see Plato).

It’s the notion that there is some “ideal” build for each profession which will manifest itself organically from the variables & rules of the game. As the variables and rules of the game change, so will the “Meta”.

Meh. The two distinguishing features are usually easy but effective. If it’s hard it wont be meta because most people can’t run it and if it’s not effective then yea. While eventually some good players/groups will exploit this and run something more difficult or creative that counters the meta in some way.

Bloodlust in general was a train wreck. At least the nerf is good.

Perkysaurus.2630:

Nothing golden about that league more like the kiss of death. But you asked for it and now it looks like you are going to get it. Hope it is what your server wants not just a vocal few guilds.

What’s not gold about it? Badges and badges then drowning in a glorious never ending sea of red with some more badges on top. CBF with minor details like PPT. That just slows the badges/hr.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Zephyrus.9680:

Because they’re using it as a prefix, and correctly so. They actually mean meta-something (usually builds/class).

I think you misinterpreted my post. What I’m getting at, is that ‘meta’ as a prefix is almost opposite of ‘the current meta’. To use your example: a ‘metabuild’ would be a build upon a build. Whereas, as a previous user mentioned, “Metabuild” in light of GW2’s interpretation, means a build that everyone uses.

A metaclass (as a prefix) would be a class upon a class (which doesnt even make sense unless there was class mixing).

Way too literal. ‘Meta-class’ in the sense you’re getting at would be like heavy, medium, and light. Or could be ranged, melee. Or else support, dps, tank, oh wait this is GW2…

But meta also means ‘beyond’ (e.g. metaphysics). Take for example “Wellomancers + zerker eles are anti meta[game]”. Metagame being trends of players who play the game (going beyond/outside of the game itself).

I don’t know the source for the definitions you quoted for ‘metagame’ in the OP but it’s kind of way off normal uses.

style.6173:

Chris.3290:

etrigan.4213:

MAG, TC and SBI are the new Tier 2.

They can all expect beating from each other and a real beating from Tier 1 in Gold league.

SoS will will be Tier 2.5 and really catch it on the chin.

As it stands right now, FA is probably better off in Silver.

Other than RQ(who bandwagonned to JQ) the majority of players and guilds that left FA went to smaller servers, looking for better non-blobby fights.

FA has lost and gain some in the past few weeks. The aggregate numbers are probably about the same…although our coverage has changed.

A lot of us wanted to stay in Gold so we could farm BG, SoR, JQ and TC…but it just wasn’t to be with SoS and SBI gaining glicko due to favorable rng matchups.

No biggies we are fine, and if its red its dead.

Uh, SoS has beaten Mag in every matchup and have only gained numbers since our last encounter.
FA-SoS-SBI-Mag make up the true Tier 2 class servers and TC is 1.5 (they have the numbers, but not the organization).

This is true. One change though: TC does not have the numbers nor the organization for T1, but are definitely stronger than the other 4 servers you mentioned.

Agreed. TC is 1.5 with no real equals. SoS and SBI are solid T2, main requirement being fairly consistent coverage. While Mag and FA are Tier 2.5. Mag because bipolar coverage and FA, the oldschool T2 underdog that has gradually lost players.

Maskaganda.2043:

it always bugged me as well. people mean paradigm and say meta, no clue why.

Because they’re using it as a prefix, and correctly so. They actually mean meta-something (usually builds/class).

edit:

Just seems silly that ‘Meta’ in its current meaning, is synonymous with ‘doctrine’ except maybe doctrine would imply an existence of more than one strategy, whereas ‘meta’ would imply the only good way to play.

This is still your misunderstanding of what people mean when they use it.

OP you’re taking crazy pills…

‘Meta’ in this sense means the overarching standards of what builds/strats are being used most commonly. In short, the convention in builds/strats/etc for what’s proven to work.

It fits exactly with the abstraction prefix because it’s not referring to any specific build or strategy, just what’s being commonly run at the time (which changes over time, for any healthy game).

So for example, counter meta means countering what most people are running (again abstraction since it’s not referring to pattern, not specifics).

With the ‘metagaming’ examples, you’re taking meta to mean unconventional or ‘outside the box’ which is certainly not how it’s normally used.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Zephyrus.9680:

You seem to have validated my statement. I have played sPvP to gladiator and of course there are fights but again, it’s more about capping and less about fighting as the priority of the game mode. The problem with the way it’s structured is, the fights are usually no larger than 2 players on each side (everyone else is running around capping different places).

Gladiator takes about 10 hours. It would be similar to me saying dismissively “I played WvW to rank 10, but it was all zergs.” You would rightly disagree.

Try some solo arenas—you get nice recurring 4v4 or 5v5 fights at mid. “Everyone running around capping” doesn’t really happen outside of hotjoins (practice arenas).

If you’re looking for fights bigger than 4v4 or 5v5, then yes, WvW is for you. But that’s not the fault of PvP, it’s just that you like large-scale better than small-scale.

If after that you still like WvW better, that’s fine! But I think everyone should at least give it a try.

The WvW sPvP comparison isn’t meaningful because in WvW you can do whatever you want however long you want (including sPvP styles of play) while in sPvP, every match is essentially played out the same with the only difference being tactics.

I’ll definitely have to try ‘Solo arenas’ since they didn’t exist when I did sPvP and tPvP. I have no idea what they are.

Now that the weekday projections are starting to show, it’s almost certain Mag is going gold and SBI silver. Just factoring in Monday, SBI’s point projections already dropped around 3K while Mag rose 2K and there’s no reason this pattern would not continue to increase in our favor as the week progresses.