gear being bad doesn’t mean it isn’t viable
everything is viable because gw2 is easy
zerker is optimal because it powers through content faster than anything else
Interesting change of tune you’re having suddenly. I’ve been saying this crap for two days now…and you finally get it?
As I’ve said several times already:
A) I have 3 toons in full zerker. I can play them and stay alive.
B) Not everyone can, and that’s why they don’t run it. It’s a lot worse to have someone in full zerker who dies, than having them in Knights or something else and living. At that point, zerker is NON-VIABLE for them, and something else is actually more OPTIMAL for THAT player in THAT situation.
C) Do as much damage as you can and stay alive. Damage is your #2 priority after survival. You can not argue this. If you’re dead, you do no damage at all. If you can survive and wear the best damage gear….do it. That’s what it was MADE for.
What you seem to be forgetting is that zerker gear survival is really only difficult and a problem when you’re the only one in the group doing damage. If you’re running and entire group of people in zerker gear, it’s much easier because other people are gasp also doing a lot of damage.
I have a genuine question for zerkers to answer – and I ask this out of interest and because I’m not good with numbers!
So, obviously the DPS you can build into a Warrior is much higher with the DPS you can build into, say, a Necromancer, right? So, even in full zerker gear, the Necro is going to be doing significantly less damage than the Warrior. I think (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that we can agree that is a fact.
Ok, so the Necro has a ton of conditions they can stack, but once you get to a point, adding any more becomes pointless as the stack is full, and you really need to rely on DPS to get the boss to finally quit.
So … what happens if the amount of hurt this boss can dish out just outlasts everything the Necro can throw at it? I mean, maybe the Warrior could get this guy down because his limit of DPS is so high, but the Necro doesn’t have anything like that. So the Necro is left glassy as all heck, but still pretty limited in its DPS.
Is it still better for the Necro to spec for DPS in this case? Or would the party actually be better off if the Necro specced for survivability and brought skills along that could support, like well of corruption etc?
Just as a quick note – please don’t use “anyone who plays Necro is stupid” as an argument. I’m talking hypothetically about the use of zerker gear and trying to establish whether it genuinely is the optimal gear for every class, and I’m doing it because it’s genuinely an interesting debate when people are willing to be reasonable rather than rude.
Questions right my alley homie
My first char, near and dear to my heart, my Necro!
Okay so Condi or Power?
imo
After playing all the builds and gear setups, Power all the way!
Why?
Because of the boss buffs Defiant, unshakable, condition caps, conditions overridden by other players, effectiveness % cut by bosses, etc.
If it wasn’t for these nuisances, condi Necro would be king in PvE and dungeons but its not…..
Is a Zerk Necro as powerful as a War? Of course not, but you bring a very neat trick that Wars can’t. Death shroud
Death shroud is great for dmg of course, but amazing at saving your skin when your gettn rdy to get pummeled….
Necro’s weakness: no support whatsoever, especially of your running power.
Bottom line: Necro’s good fun, but not the most optimal class for dungeon running, but if your running Necro, you gotta roll power with Zerk gear….
Thanks for the answer! That makes sense (I main a Necro too and despite all the limitations I can’t help but love her).
Just out of further curiosity, if it weren’t for the lack of support options for the Necro, how does the Necro’s DPS compare with other professions (excluding say, the Warrior, as naturally we know that’s the king of DPS)? I have a char in each, but their levels are so varied and naturally I get better at the game each new char I roll, so I can’t really tell since I don’t have all chars to 80 yet. What I guess I’m trying to ask here, is does the Necro have viable DPS, outside of using death shroud?
Necro is one of the lowest DPS in the game. They can spec for DPS… but that mostly comes through conditions, which aren’t useful in groups. Necros bread and butter, and what’s separates them from other caster classes is their defense… and like people have continually brought up in this thread, you win in PvE with offense, not defense.
So I’m running around the Queen’s Pavillion with the zerg last night. I play a staff ele specced for defense, mainly healing. Another staff ele is playing near me; we’re killing the destroyer boss. Occasionally he’ll say “Healing on me!” People immediately group on him, he hits water, drops his healing fields and pops them. A bunch of players say thank you.
This happens a bunch of times through the night. He’s working midline, while I tend to work frontline. Players are just soaking up the Water Blast’s; it’s clear that our healing is beneficial and appreciated. It’s times like this that make it so satisfying to play support.
When I took my tanky warrior through the same content, I was thankful for my defenses. They kept me alive so I could revive all of my zerker friends who kept getting 1-shot. It’s so much fun when we all work together.
Now can we stop arguing about this nonsense?
Now try doing that in a level 48 fotm where everything 1 shots you. That healing field is useless.
It’s not just the Queen’s gauntlet, this is true for all PvE.
And it’s not just the “masses”… this is a fundamental design flaw in GW2 that many people have identified and adjusted to.
My only comment for the whole thread is on the math failure for the “Zerker is everything” crowd.
The difference between the optimized group for a run, and one that’s not, assuming everyone knows the general run, is something like 2-5 minutes, total. The only time this matters is if you’re relentlessly bashing through the same dungeon for hours on end.
You can’t possibly put an exact time variance for a group run that’s using berserker and one that’s not. There are too many variables and possible outcomes to have such a narrow time frame.
The simple matter is… even if the run only takes “5 more minutes” that’s not the point. The point is your chance of wiping has greatly increased because the fights simply last longer. When all things are equal, yeah the times maybe aren’t that different… but your potential to not finish a run due to badness grows by a lot.
Berserker isn’t overpowered, it’s that defensive stats simply don’t scale in PvE.
In GW2, because there’s no gear treadmill, there’s always going to be an upper limit in both player damage and defenses. This works out great in PvP, because you always know what kind of damage to expect from players, so you get more bang for your buck with defensive stats.
NPC mobs don’t have the same limitations. Their damage modifiers continue to increase as the content gets more difficult.
In games like WoW, tanks are able to maintain defensive stats because they continually get more gear in the gear treadmilll to keep upwith the ever increasing NPC mob damage. GW2 doesn’t have this. Eventually, you’re going to reach a point, even when you’re completely maxed out in defensive stats that you’re just going to get 1 shot by everything.
In this case, your only defense is active defenses (blinds, shields, dodges, etc). And when your only defense is active defenses, passive defensive stats do nothing for you and if anything make it worse because it drags the fight out.
It’s a fundamental flaw with GW2. It’s NOT the fault of the armor.
(edited by Zeppelin.6832)
I really wish they could segregate players who want to play “their way” so I don’t have to wipe with them in easy dungeons.
There isn’t much info outside of the little you already stated.
I have a genuine question for zerkers to answer – and I ask this out of interest and because I’m not good with numbers!
So, obviously the DPS you can build into a Warrior is much higher with the DPS you can build into, say, a Necromancer, right? So, even in full zerker gear, the Necro is going to be doing significantly less damage than the Warrior. I think (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that we can agree that is a fact.
Ok, so the Necro has a ton of conditions they can stack, but once you get to a point, adding any more becomes pointless as the stack is full, and you really need to rely on DPS to get the boss to finally quit.
So … what happens if the amount of hurt this boss can dish out just outlasts everything the Necro can throw at it? I mean, maybe the Warrior could get this guy down because his limit of DPS is so high, but the Necro doesn’t have anything like that. So the Necro is left glassy as all heck, but still pretty limited in its DPS.
Is it still better for the Necro to spec for DPS in this case? Or would the party actually be better off if the Necro specced for survivability and brought skills along that could support, like well of corruption etc?
Just as a quick note – please don’t use “anyone who plays Necro is stupid” as an argument. I’m talking hypothetically about the use of zerker gear and trying to establish whether it genuinely is the optimal gear for every class, and I’m doing it because it’s genuinely an interesting debate when people are willing to be reasonable rather than rude.
What you’re saying is mostly all true… which is why most people don’t play Necros for PvE. There are a ton of balancing problems in GW2… and this is another huge one.
Wow you “everyone must play zerker all the time” people are clueless.
1) To say people who aren’t running with full zerker gear contribute “nothing” to a party is hilariously false. To be a true statement, you need to say “they don’t contribute as much to DPS.” And really non full-zerkers are still dealing plenty of DPS. Skill level and how well your group knows what to do in a dungeon are far bigger determining factors in how fast you clear a dungeon than their gear.
2) Running full zerker in WvW is a great way to cost your server battles. Hope I’m playing against you guys.
3) The whole point of this thread is to say you have every right to your style of play. AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE WHO DOESN’T PLAY LIKE YOU DO, especially when so much of the game can be played without ever setting foot in a dungeon.
I guess LanfearShadowflame said it best:
last time i checked, i didnt bother you people, and you left me the heck alone. problem solved. carry on.
1) Clearly you haven’t played the game wearing berserker armor, in a dps spec vs cleric in a support spec. The difference in DPS is night and day. While it is true that skill level does play a role in dungeon success, you can’t argue with numbers. In your clerics gear you’re putting out smaller numbers, and no amount of skill is going to make you put out bigger numbers unless you regear and respec. It’s pretty simple.
2) No one is talking about WvW… most classes don’t wear full berserker in PvP… but PvP is different. You actually do get a benefit from defensive stats in PvP because player damage has an upper limit, unlike NPC mobs.
3) You can gear however you want outside of a dungeon… but the point of the thread is what you do inside of it.
I would say do the QJ until it’s changed (“nerfed”). It’s fun and rewarding right now, which everyone knows is a sign it won’t last long in its current state.
This ^^
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
Like I said, flawed logic.
Sorry, but the logic is not flawed.
In PvP, passive defensive stats are actually useful because player damage has an upper limit because players are limited to the gear that they wear (as there’s very little gear progression in GW2).
This is not the case in PvE. NPC mobs don’t have that same upper limit, and have a much larger variance in damage modifiers. In many cases, even if you’re fully spec’d into defense and/or support, you’re going to reach a point where you and your teammates are 1 shot by everything.
When this happens, passive defenses become meaningless and you’re forced into active defenses (dodging, blinds, shields, etc)… and once you reach this point, DPS gear is really the only thing you need to wear. Not to mention that by not wearing it you’re just dragging fights out longer, giving yourself a greater chance of missing a dodge roll and being killed.
I’m not saying this is a great system and GW2 doesn’t need to be rebalanced (it’s absolutely terrible that this is the case)… but this is the reality of PvE at the moment, and to say anything else is delusional.
No one’s saying it can’t be done without this, but it definitely makes the dungeon harder… and if you’re the ONLY person in the group not doing it, you’re being carried.
It has nothing to do with rushing. I play with zerker gear because it’s better, but I still “sit back and enjoy it”.
There’s a large difference between people who want to “sit back and enjoy it”, and people who want to pick weak stats. I know, I know: people enjoy build diversity. So do I, especially as a big GW1 fan. But this game’s design does not treats all builds equally. So don’t blame the players for “rushing in”, blame the systems. It’s the systems and the mechanics in place that discriminate most non-zerker builds.
But the system isn’t flawed, the player’s logic is. I never run with zerker parties and I’ve done every dungeon just fine. Nothing in PvE requires zerker gear(or any other stat combo for that matter), the players do. I just hope that when they release the LFG tool that they make it as easy to see who I don’t want to play with as it is now.
Yes, it is possible to contribute nothing to a group, get carried, and still finish a dungeon. Not all of us want to play that way, however.
Just what you want, an undergeared player in a level 48 fractal because his main is geared and at that level too
And who tell you im undergeared alt into +40 fractal?
My main is a ele and is a level 45 fractal. 45AR
the rest of my alts is around: 10-20 all whit 30ARAll my characters are full exotics and ascended except ears that i need recommendations and i burn it out in my main. Is just i dont want to work toward 40+ whit all my character just to enjoy different play styles. Sometimes i wanna enjoy my mesmer, or my necro and even my face rolling guardian in +40 but why i should bother when the drop is base at my current level?
People may be disagreed and other will agreed, this is the beautiful of freedom.
I’m not talking about you personally. I’m just saying that SOMEONE out there will take think it’s okay to take their engineer with 5 AR into level 40+ fotm because they have a warrior in there because they think, “oh I’m an awesome player, I can do it”.
Thieves help their team the most by doing DPS. Focus on that
25/30/0/0/15
dagger/dagger
sword/pistol
full bersker and scholar runes
You can’t beat that
Just what you want, an undergeared player in a level 48 fractal because his main is geared and at that level too
Can already happen anyway. :/
Yeah but at least now, if you have someone that’s an OP warrior in a fractal and he wants to bring his engineer alt… he’s got to grind 48 levels with his engineer, so you’d assume that he’d at least be able to play that class semi-ok and have it semi-geared.
Typically, when someone explicitly says “No crafting” I imagine that any reply saying “Crafting” is a tad rude and completely useless.
His reason for not wanting to craft is because he’s broke… that’s moot if you’re crafting with gems essentially
Outside of crafting 80 exotics, what you do at 80 is pretty much the same thing you do at 50
Just what you want, an undergeared player in a level 48 fractal because his main is geared and at that level too
They aren’t catering to a vocal minority, they’re catering to the people who don’t want to carry 2 sets of gear. That’s a majority there.
The problem is that defensive stats like toughness and vitality simply don’t scale with the damage of NPC mobs in PvE.
In PvP, player damage has an upper limit because there is no gear progression… so you get a lot more bang for your buck with defensive stats.
PvE mobs don’t have that same upper limit, and their damage can and does continually scale upwards to the point where even if you’re maxed out completely in defense, you’ll reach content that will 1 shot you if you’re hit.
So then you have to be much more reliant on active defenses like dodge rolls, shields, blinds, etc… and if that’s your only defense, there’s really no reason to have anything but dps armor and a dps spec or the fights just drag on in length.
(edited by Zeppelin.6832)
Spend $20 on 1600 gems, trade them for gold… craft 6-7 professions to 400. You’ll be 80 in a day.
There is no faster way
I didn’t keep count of the number of times I voted, but I know it wasn’t 500… more like 100-150
You need to do something more than once for it to technically be referred to as “farming”
That’s fine, I just won’t be able to play for longer than a month at a time. Horizontal progression is finite, eventually you have the skin you want and there’s nothing left but to level an alt.
Mesmers have way more utility and use than necros.
Ah man, April 30th is a Tuesday. I’m going to miss that final event. I was inactive on GW2 during the previous events, and looks like I’m not going to be able to partake in this one either.
Don’t matter I s’pose, with the way the RNG treats me, I’m likely to just get a few whites and blues anyway.Why assume it will be a one-time event?
Because it would fit in with the other one-time events ANet has already had.
GW2 doesn’t just make MMOs feel very dated, they also make pretty much any RPG at all outdated. Even a single player RPG that focuses solely on kill quests (Kingdom of Amalur for example) feels old. If you can’t have an open and dynamic world in 2013, you have no business making an RPG.
GW1 servers are still live. This is not GW1
Hence the problem with horizontal progression. Going after different “skins” is great, but you can only wear one set of armor at the time. Eventually you’re going to settle on what you like, and then what? There’s nothing else to do on a character.
Why is it that anything that is profitable in this game has to be made unprofitable? And why do you support it?
This ^^^
I’m sick to death of nerfing every way to make money in the game.
There’s no reason to nerf cof. Just buff some of the other dungeons so they’re some incentive to run them.
So far, it shouldn’t really surprise you that there isn’t enough titles. Everything in GW2 seems to be done in a manner where there simply isn’t enough to back up the implementation. Take a look at Town Clothes. Only now are the starting to get some options available, but it’s still horribly lacking.
New game is new.
Learn from it and move on.
You’re only level 20. By level 80 you’ll be breezing through 1-15 content.
Hello Guardians of GW2!
The topic title it’s the most important. But I would like to know more about this profession. I have a level 45 Human Warrior and I’m getting a bit bored of playing with this profession only because it’s slow to level-up.
So I want to start over but this time, give a try to the Guardian. Why Guardian? Because I’m a more PvE dedicated player and I’m here for the story-line/gameplay.Any build recommendation are really welcome!
Thanks in advance!
Sadly, when it comes to straight utility and damage, you can’t beat a warrior in PVE.
Not to say that a Guardian is bad. They’re definitely top 2-3 strongest in PVE.
For builds, take a look at some of the altruistic healing builds.
Mesmer’s don’t really have a condition build. Even staff, our supposed condition weapon works better when you don’t stack condition damage.
But really, that’s a good thing. Condition builds are mostly trash.
I had one drop and sold it.
Not enough content? People complain. Too much content? People complain.
Stop being a rude jerk. I’ve done tons of dungeons, most all PUGs, never once have I or anyone else been kicked.
Most of the dungeons I’ve done a half million times. I just want to get the tokens and move on.
Give it 10-12 expansions.
Out of all the classes, would you say ranger be the one you’d kick after the patch?
Then again, rangers were being kicked before patches, so I guess that’s a little redundant.
Will never kick any profession even rangers in any dungeon. However 2 is the absolute maximum I would ever take in every dungeon except COF p1. Sadly that is the same limit I would say for necros as well.
I did a 5 ranger run cof p1. Quite fun. Sure it wasnt SUPER FAST SPEED CLEAR. It wasnt slow either. Also, no wipes. 1-2 downs from slave driver. Dont think any during boss.
Using the easiest dungeon in the game as your baseline is a bit misleading.
They don’t need to nerf cof p1; they need to buff other dungeons so that people want to run them.
If you already have an elementalist, I would do a guardian. A mesmer is going to be very similar both in look and feel. They’re both light armor classes, so a lot of your armor skins will be the same, and you’re also going to have that glass cannon but extremely weak type of hectic gameplay. A guardian is a lot more sturdy and offers a bit different gameplay.
This is a great video someone showed me once about the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic rewards playing video games.
Author did a mistake there… In WoW your grinding not to just get the items but to get items powerful enough to overcome next challenge. What’s wrong with that?!
The progression is stagnant. You’re not actually getting stronger, you’re just coming up to par with whatever the top happens to be at that step in the treadmill.
That’s not necessarily true. That only applies to new content, it doesn’t apply to existing content which you still do with your new gear. If you’re using that gear in other areas (and you do) it’s not stagnant.
5 warriors are all you need.