Guild Wars 2

I am not going to continues using S/D at tournament level. It got nerfed WAY too hard for it to be worth using. Basically everything it did got cut in half.
I love the weaponset, but it’s just not viable. ANet way overdid the nerf.

I would be fine with a 2.5 second cap as long as the damage reduction were rolled back (or maybe just a 10% damage reduction on DD) and FS fixed.

Yes, I only sPvP. I’m only level 50 in PvE because I’ve been devoting all of my attention to sPvP.
I’ve spent maybe 2-3 hours in WvW.

Stiv.1820:

Not going anywhere. We were hardly touched. Dancing Dagger always was a snare first. Now we just can’t abuse Rangers with it. If you play WvW that’s pretty much it besides slight S/D nerfs that people are blowing out of proportion.

Thieves guild now yanks people from 1200 range…. it’s so awesome!

Your right, if you play WvW not much changed.
For us sPvP players S/D is now completely worthless.
Imagine if this nerd had happened, to, say a Warrior Greatsword;
Hundred Blades has had a 33% damage reduction.
Bladtrail has had it’s bug fixed and recieved a 50% damage reduction.
You can now only Charge at a distance of half of what you used to.
And, one of your other skills are bugged and doesn’t work correctly.
Can you imagine the uproar that would be happening right now in the Warrior forum?
Because that’s exactly what happened to S/D in sPvP.

Yeah, pretty much what ^ said.
I disagree, though, that the daze should have been capped. Against competent players you weren’t going to completely dazelock them.

But yeah, they definitely went WAY overboard on this nerf.

@Mr Big and Tulisin

I’m right there with you guys. Since S/D is now subpar in everything (control, damage, support), I think I’m just going to reroll to a profession that ANet likes, since it’s pretty obvious they hate Thief builds aside from the Backstab burst one.
Well, Borderlands 2 is looking pretty good…

I wouldn’t say they slightly nerfed S/D (well, in WvW it’s fine). In sPvP however, they basically stomped all over it. I don’t think it’s viable in tournaments anymore.

@Dual
By all means, come up with a build that does not rely on burst or condition damage and is viable at high level play. I’m not talking about WvW.
The Backstab build was not nerfed in the right place (Mug and actual BS damage). Instead, they stifled build options by ruining S/D, not fixing P/P (weakest Thief set), and forcing Thieves to go GC or condition. There is no middle ground.

Only viable build for Thieves is GC Backstab and maybe condition damage. They nerfed everything that shouldn’t have been nerfed (except maybe DD, but 50%, that’s way over the top). Backstab burst wasn’t even touched.

Really disappointed in you ANet.

Since S/D is now completely worthless (which is the main reason I was playing a Thief)
, I’ll either reroll as a Mesmer or just play a different game.

I was so hyped for this patch and now I’m just extremely sad and frustrated.

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

GlockworK.2954:

.5 second reduction isn’t a huge deal, but a nerf nonetheless.

25% reduction is not a huge deal?

It’s actually more than that. Sigil of Paralyzation used to increase the daze to 3 seconds. Now it doesn’t do anything.
So really it’s a 50% reduction.

S/D is now completely worthless. CnD hits like a wet noodle, Tactital Strike is dazed for half of what it was, DD is now worthless (4 ini for a short cripple, no thanks), and FS still wasn’t fixed.

I’m starting to lose faith in ANet.

I am seriously considering just shelving my Thief and playing a Mesmer from now on.
Don’t want to play the still OP Backstab build or a condition Thief, so… Yeah. Kinda at a loss right now.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved all the other things they added. Just depressed that my favorite build just got crushed…

I’m not sure what to do at this point. I did not see the S/D nerf coming at all.

S/D just got screwed. Dancing Dagger had its damage reduced by 50%, CnD damage reduced by 30%, and Tactical Strike reduced to 1.5 second daze. They didn’t even fix Flanking Strike.
I’m very dissapointed ANet, very dissapointed.

evilapprentice.6379:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Archaon.6245:

Every class can play a role, guardians bunkers and support, eles bunkers, support and some dmg, eng again bunkers and support, thieves can’t play good bunkers…they can only go for pressure (bleed, daze etc) or spike (BS)…sure that if someone wants to play a single target spike spec on a class not designed for it, and he dies vs someone who has everything made for it…it’s just normal

U never know , until u try :P
U can equip ur Soldier rune + get the Feline Grace + the Wild strike + any other evasive atack(death blossom + aply bleeds) or daze or black powder pistol attack and make a rotation .
+ Traits that restore Initiative , and try to bunk :P

You absolutely cannot play a bunker thief (at a TPvP level at least). I’ve tried at least 50 different combinations of traits, runes, utilities, playstyles…etc.

That’s not to say a thief cant be survivable – the problem is your biggest “bunker” style abilities trigger from being in stealth. Can’t hold a point in stealth, can’t bunker.

We also have no access to protection or aegis, and unless you want to dagger storm and immediately dodge roll, stability. Even at max toughness and good healing power (Shamans ammy with toughness/vit runes), you melt without consistently stealthing for regen and condition cleanses.

Our other defensive mechanic (being very mobile/dodgy) pulls you off the point too much.

That was my point to Gank Sinatra. Different classes have different strengths. Being a GC is the strength of a Thief.

Unless the game decided to lump 2-3 HS together and combined the damage (as has happened before). Or John didn’t notice how many times he was hit by HS. I have NEVER seen a 9k HS. I have seen quite a few 6-7k HS at the lowest health threshold though.

TSFH. ’Nuff said.

Or something with a good beat. Try to avoid using anything with lyrics. Kids play this game and surf forums…so yeah.

John Lucier.5486:

Would be a sick and lore fitting ability for thief to have something that allowed them to climb walls, but without a hefty cooldown or very specific circumstances it could be overpowered

It sounds cool, but in actuality you would just see entire zerge made of Thieves that completely ignore the walls/doors and just climb right over the walls.

I’m not saying its a bad idea (I would like it), it just has the potential to be massively overpowered.

Dee Jay.2460:

On a related note: Is it normal that other professions have such a huge range of “junk” abilities?

I mean we can literally dismiss about half of our utility skills because they suck and dismiss more because they don’t suit our build.

Yeah. Most of the professions I’ve played (with the exception of the Engineer) has had many utilites/traits that are just completely worthless. There are somewhere between 5-8 good utility skills and that’s about it for most professions.

GankSinatra.2653:

Larynx.2453:

Don’t be a glass cannon, and then complain about dying to another glass cannon. What part of “glass” do people not understand? Get an ounce of toughness on and suddenly your pecs can reflect bullets.

Ok i dont get this. The thieves calling other glass cannons idiots for going glass cannon are always glass cannons themselves. Do you guys have the monopoly on being glass cannon? When you come up to an ele glass cannon, he deserves to lose horribly? Because you are both glass cannons and thus the thief deserves to win? Where does this kitten come from.
Theres a couple classes that are leagues above all other glass cannons yet they keep acting like this is how its supposed to be. Necros and Guardians, ok fine maybe they arent meant to be glass cannons. But 90% of the others are eaten by you and frustrated about the tools that Thiefs are given, and all you guys say is ‘just be a thief we are supposed to be best glass cannons’. Well guess what’s happening in pvp where people arent forced into bunker specs.

I wouldn’t say Thieves have the monopoly on going GC, but they are the best at it (due to how Initative and other things work). Elementalists make awesome bunkers and okay GC. Thieves make awesome GC and okay bunkers. See how it works?

Who knows ZLE. Just a few more hours…

Yeah, venoms and traps are pretty underwhelming except for in very niche builds.
I agree with most of what you said. I would have rated IS a little higher. It’s real beauty is the instant teleport (useful for landing CnD and stomping Thieves, etc).

ZLE.8293:

Zunhar.4079:

Phew. I was really worried there for a second. I seriously hope they don’t give Steal a cast time…

Or remove the cast time of C&D.This will be both nerf and buff.

Now there’s an interesting idea. I still think people would just Steal to close the gap and then use CnD for the instant stealth.

Phew. I was really worried there for a second. I seriously hope they don’t give Steal a cast time…

Whatever you want to roll with.

Asura give you a slight advantage. Due to the subconscious mind, players will tend to attack the bigger races (Norn and Charr). The Asura animations are also harder to see and therefore dodge/avoid.

I personaly rolled a Sylvari and changed his skin (bark?) to black. Looks pretty cool.

TGSlasher.1458:

Zunhar.4079:

I’m not too sure yet how I feel about the rentable servers. Could someone explain to me how they work exactly?

No one knows yet. But basically, you pay a resource (presumable gems) to hire a server that can be customised. This includes map rotation, p/w, player size as well as possible admin functions (like kick players etc)

The above is all speculation of course and we are waiting on anet to release a pvp post about it.

Thanks for the info. Don’t like the fact that I have to pay gems just to rent a server.

Trust me, using IA before a fight is a serious disadvantage to the Thief. He’s down half his entire bar of Initiative (untraited) with one arrow.

Also, you can’t make all the classes equal in mobility/damage/whatever. If a Warrior has the same mobility and roaming capability as a Thief, why would anyone EVER bring a Thief? A warrior has 80% more HP, wears heavy armor, and can destroy glass cannons just like the Thief does. The “if he has it everyone should have it” argument doesn’t work.

On the other suggestions:
I agree with just about everything you said aside from the balancing. Duels, more maps, more modes, etc. In hotjoin I think you should still earn glory even if you lose. However, if you win you should earn 50% more glory, not some measly 20%.

I frequently browse low population servers trying to find good players that are willing to duel. Intense 1v1 fights are the most fun I have EVER had in a video game. I would absolutely love a dueling feature.

I’m not too sure yet how I feel about the rentable servers. Could someone explain to me how they work exactly?

“I wish Thieves had less weapon choices, we just have so many!”

GlockworK.2954:

Quick fix:

You can’t cast Steal when channeling an ability.

Done.

This would totally screw over S/D and P/D, which use CnD -Steal as a way to close the gap and go into stealth, not to instagib you. I’m not sure how it would affect PvE Thieves. Or, you could just make it to where Steal doesn’t apply venoms. That seems like it could work.

Main: Thief
Alts: Mesmer, Engineer, Warrior, Guardian

Tier 1: Mesmers, Guardians
Tier 2: Thieves, Elementalists, Engineers
Tier 3: Necro and Warrior
Tier 4: Ranger

Just in general. I’ve seen exceptions to every rule (amazing Rangers, worthless Mesmers, etc.)

I’m just grateful that SOMETHING new is being added to PvP. Would I have liked to see Arenas and other modes? Yes. But I am glad that they’re adding a new map. It shows me that there is actually still a PvP team at ANet.

Arius.7031:

strifer.7986:

you all complain about thief because it the easier to see. No one complain about shatter mesmer with frenzy…..because till now this build it still not discovered.Mesmer can " burst " (Aoe) more than a thief.Instead to find a counter all ppl come here and cry a river because they got pwned. what a bunch of crybaby. Or wanna talk about warrior? warrior can do same kitten of sin lockdown -> burst . Steal Like every other skill it subjeted to all other mitigation skill….dodge…invisibility… etc. “it not 100% hit”.
A part this how do you think this game will evolve? when a new strong build is discovered all ppl use that…etcetc i mean…. you cannot talk about “balance” because every day news build are discovered and a class get screwed.

I have a level 80 Shatter build Mesmer, and it’s definitely on the OP side of things, but it is not in any way comparable to a thief.

1. We don’t have anywhere near the sustained damage of a thief.
2. We can’t stealth nearly as much as a thief without sacrificing valuable slot skills (and even then stealth isn’t nearly as useful for us). This makes us far less survivable.
3. Shatter builds have sup-par damage aside from the shatter. If you fail somehow, gg.
4. Shatters can easily be stopped. Roll into the clone when it starts to run at you, for example, or use AoE’s.
5. We have no where near as much mobility as thieves.

A shatter build is OP to an extent (similar to a Warrior, a power/wells Necro, a Bunker ele, a grenade Engineer), there’s tons of “op” builds in this game. But there’s one class with a few builds more OP than the rest of them… One class to rule them all!

Mesmers have Portal, probably the best utility skill in the game when it works
Mesmers have awesome Elites aside from Mass Invis
Your burst is reapeatable every 12-15 seconds and is an AoE. Thieves can do it once every 45 seconds.
Your base HP is about 4k more than Thieves.
Honestly, the list could go on but each class has pros and cons to everything.
The only OP build a Thief has is the Backstab spec. That’s it.

There is a 62.5% chance of any team running a certain profession, so I would say most teams will have both a Mesmer and Guardian.

If you die to Heartseeker spam you are seriously doing something wrong.

Sounds great. Don’t forget a 1v1 dueling feature!

“Rangers are OP because they get a pet! Why don’t I get a pet?”

“Necros are OP because they have 3748582 health bars!!!”

Try ShadowStep. That is probably the single best Thief utility skill there is. Double 1200 range stunbreaker, condition removal, and absolutely amazing when combined with stealth. Can also be used offensively as well (chasing targets, landing CnD or a stomp, etc)

I sure hope both burst and bunker builds get toned down.

“Flanking Strike is the best skill EVAR!! "

(well, sorrow doesn’t count)

Everyone should eventually make most, if not all of the classes. However, once you have learned most of the classes strengths/weaknesses, you should focus almost all (say 90% of your time) on one particular class. This will allow to become very proficient with that certain class, while still having a working idea of the other classes.

Fixeon.5076:

We would have to see the fight to really explain what happened. My guess is he took a wild guess as to which way you went he hit you with CnD which stealthed him; this would have told him that he hit you he then followed it up with a backstab right away. Also your attack chain will go through the motions if you happen to hit someone with auto attack wile they are in stealth. I do things like this all the time. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean you should stop attacking.

I am trying to figure out how you go from chaindazing to stealth 10 feet away. Like i said we would have to see the fight to understand better.

I think this is what he did. I should have been more aggressive instead of backing off and healing up. Anyway, thanks for the help guys!

So I was fighting a Backstab Thief on my S/D spec. Normally I eat these guys for breakfast because once you evade their initial combo they’re easy pickings. But this guy was different. His name was Jumper X and was rank 48 :O. I fought him a few times and while a couple of them were close he won most of them.

Anyway, the real reason I made this thread is because of a certain fight. I evade his Steal-CnD-Backstab combo ( I actually think it was ShadowStep, not Steal because he only ported close, not exactly on top of me). I land a CnD on him to start chaindazing. He autoattacks 2x, pops the SoS for the blind, and then CnD-Steal-Backstab me and kills me. I was in stealth when this happens and was at least 10 feet away from him. How did he do this?
Any help and advice would be appreciated.

On a totally unrealated side note, a guy thought I was hacking I dazed him so much

Necro’s aren’t soul-eating, dead reviving, life leechers either. Everyone in GW2 is a “good guy.” That’s just how ANet decided to make it.
SWTOR has pretty decent good/bad choices. I won’t go back to playing it, but it certainly had good quests and decision making.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Zunhar.4079:

ANet is focusing on PvE because that is what makes them money. Not being mean or anything, but they are a company and they have bills and salaries to pay. sPvP does not make ANet any money at all (no sub fee), but people are willing to spend money in PvE at the cash shop.
Some new game modes and maps would do wonders for the PvP’s health, however.

They sold the game as having strong pvp. Many people payed for a game just for pvp. Sadly that did not happen. If anything PvP’ers got ripped off by A.Net.

I only PvP and I am having loads of fun. Could it be better? Absolutely. Am I dissapointed with the lack of modes/maps and no ladder? Yes. I don’t feel like I got ripped off, I just feel like PvP is getting the short end of the stick (as always). I’m just saying WHY ANet isn’t focusing as much on PvP as many people (myself in included) would like.

Archaon.6245:

-____________-" what?

Quoted for emphasis.

ANet is focusing on PvE because that is what makes them money. Not being mean or anything, but they are a company and they have bills and salaries to pay. sPvP does not make ANet any money at all (no sub fee), but people are willing to spend money in PvE at the cash shop.
Some new game modes and maps would do wonders for the PvP’s health, however.

Daecollo.9578:

Zunhar.4079:

This is why I rerolled to S/D about a month or so ago. If anything, I’m looking forward to buffs.

So far though, I don’t really think you will be getting anything is the problem, just a lot of trait nerfs.

One can hope. Maybe FS will be fixed.
ANet should really buff/change our underwhelming traits (of which there are a lot). All of the decent/good traits deal with improving damage (Executioner, Mug, etc) so Thieves are somewhat pigeonholed into doing high damage, be it burst or steady DPS through conditions or S/D.