Guild Wars 2

Just waiting from Irenio’s answer about the disappointing druid and about fixes in the ranger.
And don’t care if he is bullied at the workplace, we need someone that can fix the ranger once for all.

Druid is so bad i stopped playing the beta. I couldn’t even get to try another class.

Are those numbers any good? Better than healing ele or revenant?

Wondrouswall.7169:

It’s good to take a break from this for awhile. I can empathize. Hope you do come back, it would at least mean those points you have listed were resolved (in some way). Cheers, ’til then.

If he leaves is better to do it for good. There are many MMOs much better balance and he will most likely miss most of the unique campaigns will be done.
I did the same some time ago and i missed most of the scarlet campaign.

My advice if you leave, just find another MMO. Ranger will not be fixed by then or never for that Anet has shown us.

You are not alone in this feeling. And seeing the lack of interaction from the Devs in this feedback threads i would not expect things to change.

I have to say at the end, although i though i was wrong for a moment being blinded with so much sparkles, Irenio did not disappoint.
He keeps pulling weird stuff that have not synergy at all with anything and expect us to comply.

Seriously, Why is so difficult for Anet to put in charge of the ranger development an actual ranger player? Not someone that lie Hey i play ranger just looks cool.
Just assign Irenio to engi and other stuff and put an actual Dev that actually knows how the ranger play and is willing to fight for it.

The code is already compiled you are already using it.

Actually the concerns about defective AI is as much about PvE as PvP/WvW.
In PvE is easier to keep your pet alive most of the times, in WvW the pet instadie.

HEre they are asking for a real fix, not a patch that works only in some scenarios.

I gave my solution that could be easily implemented in the pathing algorithm. Once that is done they could even use it for the mobs so they behave more like a player.

vespers.1759:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The underlying system of combat is built around area attacks. This is why the majority of base weapon attacks strike multiple targets in the affected area, unlike other games which strike one target – the one you have selected. Our system makes things like positioning and facing far more important and engaging; this also means that the concept of ‘AoE’ is not as easy to distinguish and thus handle in different ways.

That said, we are currently looking at systemic ways to help with player pet and minion survivability.

you managed it with fractals… targets take reduced damage when not targeted.

Why can’t this be applied to pets?

Because pets would take reduced damage when not targeted. Melee weapons that hit 3 targets, you only have one targeted for example.

The would make a lot of op cry and our pets would get 50% HP reduction. We would stand in even worst place after that.

Grace of the lad should apply permanent reduction damage.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The last aspect left to play with, thought I better finish off my ideas

Staff Redux
Glyph Redux
Druid Traits Redux

I really like the changes you propose in all your redux threads.
I hope Irenio take them into account, this trits seems so perfect.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

There is no need to track AoE damage. They already keep track of whether something is targeted by damage for the Playing Favorites mistlock instability and since AoE damage is largely untargeted. There is the perfect mechanic to give pets.

They can still be easily countered by focus in PvP or killed easily in PvE if they pull aggro, but would take 50% less damage from all the red circles.

i didn’t know they had this already. But in melee weapons that affects 3 targets you only have one tagged. The pet would take 50% damage, wouldn’t be it? (Example from Irenio)
You would need to target the pet specifically which could lead to OP cries.

Tracking area size and longevity of an area could be an answer. but only if they can retrieve the object id.

Rutee.1058:

Ehecatl.9172:

SemiProBBQ.8946:

if you’re argument is alot of attacks are aoe so that’s too many attacks my pet takes less damage from i disagree, any class can kill my pet in a handful of attacks a better idea would be for my dead pet to not go on a 60s cd on swap and instead keep it at 20s, there’s no reason to have our class mechanic knocked out for a minute

It’s not a matter of balance but of sheer mechanics. There is no code that differentiates “AoE” damage from “Single target” damage. They can’t make an AoE damage reduction ability because there is no AoE damage. There is only damage.

I’m extraordinarily skeptical this isn’t doable. Maybe the engine doesn’t track AoE damage, but it absolutely tracks individual skills and has condition-based damage increases – For instance, traits can deal +X% damage if Condition-Y is on the target

Well, here’s a state to track: Is_Minion. Then, on skills deemed acceptable, Is_Minion: -90%, or -80%, or -10%. I don’t pretend to know what the right number is. I don’t know the full list of skills that would need this by any means, but it certainly would include at least some boss specials.

But don’t tell someone who regularly plays a modern MMO where not only do pets have pet protection, but that protection doesn’t apply to cleaves (Which, in the other MMO, only hit pets when either a tank or the pet owner drastically kitten up), most room-wide or otherwise unavoidable damage, or similar. This is absolutely doable – you don’t have to mark AoE damage as special, just the moves that cause it. It should be doable within currently existing technology, going solely off of traits we know exist (And probably without an annoying buff icon to mark minions to boot).

I don’t like you to think i ave any animosity against you, i don’t.

What Ireno said it makes a lot of sense at developing level. The engine can be designed to use always a AoE effect when dealing damage. Why?

It’s cost efficient and also can avid some future bugs.
Otherwise design a weapon to hit more than one target would need to do the calculations separately based in distance and position, and we already see how buggy is the engine when it has to calculate paths.

The engine may not be designed to calculate the collision of every polygon, or parts of an object. When you attack it creates a fan like AoE and up to X targets there are hit. So they don’t need to design a different mechanic for each weapon.

Now for Irenio: As my understanding It uses AoE aras for any attack. Is it possible to know how big is that area?
Personally i don’t like the idea of automatic damage reduction, i’d like it better if the pets could become smarter and regain some environmental awareness so it can be applied to the other skills, and when in AoE use some kind of evade mechanism.

If the engine allow to detect/know how big is the area you can use this checks:

• Area has a radius bigger than X, for example 300 units could detect is in an AoE so can try to avoid going inside.

• The problem with the AoE is mostly the sustained damage. Most probably that AoE entities have an Internal ID. Could you retrieve that value? Do you destroy the AoE object when the attack ends?
  If the pet detect is taking sustained damage from the same ID it could trigger AoE? It could soak one tick but at least would try to leave at some point.
  This could be useful also when the red circles advise the incoming AoE if they share the same ID the pet could detect that’s an AoE area at the second check.

KayCee.4653:

I laughed at that Mercurias … its pretty much what people are trying to say about this

Sadly mercurias is right.
But here sould be the reason, i share his opinion.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Druid-we-re-being-trolled-right/5566874

I’m sorry but after the balance patch and how the druid is designed, that we only had this weekend to test it, and the lack of communication from the devs this arise my trust issues. I think more customers that main a ranger share our concerns.

Rutee.1058:

anduriell.6280:

Staff-3 does 1.6K healing every 12 secs. which is subpar even to the 1.5K healing every 8 secs from the guardian.

Staff 3 does 2.1k with half the healing power. Stop. Talking.

Still not the 5K it’s pointed. That’s actually half.

So my point is still valid.

Recursivision.2367:

anduriell.6280:

Recursivision.2367:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYD7keVogVsiVwkVgoVkMzAwhTD-ThRDABGqE8S1fia/hsU+BwDAQPdAkCwvhWA-e

Ancestral Grace and lunar impact to AoE heal 10k+ every 12 seconds. Glyph of rejuvenation in Celeform will do about the same. Tidal surge for another 5k or so, and blast the water with warhorn on the way out. And, well, you can do this pretty often.

If you really want to compare numbers with other builds, you’re going to lose. Druid is tops heals, bud.

You are using the cele form that is not available all the time. It is like using reaper shroud to say the necro is OP.
CAF only last for short time, 8 seconds? each time you use a CAF skill a chunk goes away.
And then you have to build up again. That with staff is fast enough in exchange for very weak damage.

Ventari can heal you for standing close. Plus 2K if moves the tablet. Plus 2.5K every 2 seconds.
plus 600 with the staff AA every 2 sec. Plus 2k every 15 sec.
For me that’s healing more than enough.. And it does not depend on you building up for CAF. And again, if so much healing is not needed Rev can change to another legen and give another kind of support.

Guardian don’t have numbers that high but also pulls a lot of healing. Plus a lot of support.

Druid only heals mostly when in combat and even that doesn’t get it right.

In most situations outside of very small encounters (1v1, etc.) you can have Celeform back up in less than 20 seconds without even trying. So, I don’t really see that as a limiting factor here. Still 5k AoE burst healing very 12 seconds on staff-3, nice sustain healing from staff and traits, and massive heals in the fairly accessible Celeform.

In terms of pure healing, druid is the best.

Give ventari a try and honestly tell me it’s a better healer. It has decent sustain healing if you’re standing in one spot. It has no capability to burst heal and becomes almost unusable when players are moving.

Staff-3 does 1.6K healing every 12 secs. which is subpar even to the 1.5K healing every 8 secs from the guardian.
The Druid does only have sustain healing if there hare many players around. You with your pet is not going to be enough.
The CAF (celestial avatar form, not my acronym) is same useless when players are moving: CAF-1 takes +1 sec to land. CAF-2 2 secs t activate.
CAF-3 is the only skill useful but mostly used to attack. CAF-4 radius too small and healing to weak, CAF-5 make you a damage sponge while channeling.
And that’s CAF. Druid should be able to pull good support when in normal state being superb when in CAF, and there it fails miserably.

As i said i like the support theme because i had enough selfishness with the ranger. I just want the profession to be well designed not another ranger bad like profession that is subpar to any other healing build.

KayCee.4653:

I’m not sure what server you on, but on mine Ranger is actually sought after for havoc’ing in particular since two rangers can duo or trio even the castle. Granted, you’ll generally want more for it, but its possible. I’m only up to solo’ing towers. Keeps and castle are still too hard for me to take…

Also depending on your server, most servers I play on don’t care what profession you play on for WvW. Granted, sometimes we need tanks more so than healers and elementalists… but if you can take and tank on any profession like GW2 does allow, then you can be helpful to most WvW zerg parties and havoc groups.

Yeah right, let me guess you play bearbow.
You kitten the supervisor with the LB while your bear tanks for you.
And you pray no other enemy player comes around.
Not a solution not the point

Rutee.1058:

anduriell.6280:

Recursivision.2367:

You are using rune of the dolyak.

In this forum are a lot of people that enjoy healer theme. With Dragonhunter can get so much better and also give so much support than the druid.
So i think is important to help them in this regard. It is not noise it’s something i discovered..

You are such a transparent liar. But you know, not only is your DH build worse, you should probably know, Guild Wars 2 builds’ site is blatantly off with druid heals. With half the healpower and the default traits on logging in, I have notably more healing than the one for your build. I hope you have actual parses, at this point.

Identical build with the Druid.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQBeusRicSkmSmoSopSgwSSAAgVA-TxgGgArq/sr8DQJIA-e

For me the support the druid gives is really bad compared to the Dragonhunter. And you have the longBow and traps (in case you do trapper ranger in WvW).
So really i still see the DragonHunter so much better healer than the druid. In spike and sustained healing.
I think Druid should forget the haler theme and stop using Druid as tome of courage 2.0

It didn’t work then it won’t work now.

Recursivision.2367:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYD7keVogVsiVwkVgoVkMzAwhTD-ThRDABGqE8S1fia/hsU+BwDAQPdAkCwvhWA-e

Ancestral Grace and lunar impact to AoE heal 10k+ every 12 seconds. Glyph of rejuvenation in Celeform will do about the same. Tidal surge for another 5k or so, and blast the water with warhorn on the way out. And, well, you can do this pretty often.

If you really want to compare numbers with other builds, you’re going to lose. Druid is tops heals, bud.

You are using the cele form that is not available all the time. It is like using reaper shroud to say the necro is OP.
CAF only last for short time, 8 seconds? each time you use a CAF skill a chunk goes away.
And then you have to build up again. That with staff is fast enough in exchange for very weak damage.

Ventari can heal you for standing close. Plus 2K if moves the tablet. Plus 2.5K every 2 seconds.
plus 600 with the staff AA every 2 sec. Plus 2k every 15 sec.
For me that’s healing more than enough.. And it does not depend on you building up for CAF. And again, if so much healing is not needed Rev can change to another legen and give another kind of support.

Guardian don’t have numbers that high but also pulls a lot of healing. Plus a lot of support.

Druid only heals mostly when in combat and even that doesn’t get it right.

Terra.8571:

Maikky.8526:

Terra.8571:

anduriell.6280:

And the revenant Ventari/Shiro will be the healers that are going to raids or PvE. Druid will not.

Ummm, Ventari/Shiro is worse at boons than druids. Shiro is a very selfish legend and only offers quickness/ personal dps. Ventari has very little boons (gets them from traits mainly, usually in Glint). If Rev’s come as healers, they’ll most likely come as Ventari/ Glint.

Anyways, as someone who is torn between maining Druid and Herald, in terms of healing Druid is 100x better. More sustain (if you can heal 90% of the time that’s sustain to me) and a hell of a lot more burst – no other profession in the game can pull off 16k burst heals (in 1s) every 20s (Guardian’s elite can do 100% heal but is on a 3min cd).

The one thing I do agree with is outside of healing, where the kitten is the dps, particularly on CA form?

What are you even on – Druid doesn’t even have boons unless you count stealth and superspeed when you get out of shroud

Anywhere where you need heals that “big” are in situations where your going to get 1 or 2 shooted anyway so it doesn’t matter .

Boons > Heal always

Lol, READ the post. Ventari has NO boons on the legend skills. In its trait line it has only regen (basically healing) and a little swiftness. Ventari has virtually no boons, and definitely no good boons. This puts it on par if not worse than Druid. The good boons are in the Glint traitline, Jalis trait line and invocation trait line and the Glint Legend.

I never said boons weren’t good, I said Shiro/Ventari is a bad support combo because it has no boons. Ventari/Glint is MUCH better.

Also, boons are better than heals now because there are no large heals in this game besides the self heal. Druid changes that and so in the future healing might be much more improtant, we’ll have to see.

Again, that’s not the point. I didn’t even used more than one traitline with the rev.
The point is Ventari is better at healing than Druid using only one trait line. You have another 2 and another legend to make the build you feel like: DPS? Support? Condi?

Just i’d like to read one reason why you would choose a druid over a guardian or a revenant. That lead irremediably to the conclusion that Druid needs to be fixed to make a good support profession.

And after 3 years playing necro and ranger i know we have to make clear that the druid need to be reworked because the class is already subpar to other classes in game. Even the core professions (ele and guard that i know of).

Seth.8906:

anduriell.6280:

Seth.8906:

druid bersek can heal a looot more. 10K with 2 skill how can DH do it better?

Dh can heal 5 allies 50K each with one skill. use my link and have a look. You have a bow also although pure guardian would heal much more.

Anyway Druid can not heal 10K even with 4 skill cast.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAWn0rCFsiVsCmsCEtiEaGAOcWA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

celestial mode skill 4 and 6 puff 10k

Just have to stay on the top of your team for 5 seconds for that. SoS will not save you with conditions.
In WvW i couldn’t give more than one or 2 pulses before die or fly, because you have to stay in the middle of the zerg to make this skill useful. And while you do that you can’t cast anything else.
So CAF#4 is a no no.

So like other player said: in paper everything looks nice but if you play with the class you see everything is just dysfunctional.

Rutee.1058:

Um, it can heal max HP, not 50k, once every 2.5 minutes. Your own build that you keep slamming can easily push 10k in 3 skill casts – it gets 7.8k in 2. The DH you’re posting here looks incredibly unimpressive for the purpose of healing – it might be better at keeping people alive with some of those utilities, but its looking solidly worse at HP/S.

This doesn’t mean the DH is worse – if the DH can keep people alive while doing better dps, welp. But it appears a weaker healer.

I agree with you, the build is not the best.
But even then it pulls better support than the druid. And a ery decent healing: it will heal 150HP /tick plus 1.5K every 8 secs just for being there.

Druid needs to build up the energy, and after that the healings are available for a very short time. Also how the heals are designed it put you always in the worst of the combat, which actually kills you most of the time. That if you want to heal.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Tragic Positive.9356:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Title of this thread should be “Druid is PVP Meta” so I wouldn’t have had to click it. I mean, after hours of play on the Druid it is abundantly clear Druid won’t be in PVE meta until healing is a forced role.

It already is.

Raids have mechanics of AoE damage auras that can’t be avoided. Healing it yourself is not really possible. Unless you are an Ele. Everything is possible with Ele.

So, it’s meta because it’s required for raids?

IT is not. Guardian and ventari has much better healing and sustained than druid. And better support and DPS.

Rutee.1058:

anduriell.6280:

That you understood that is interesting. you don’t have many friends in real life i guess.

I should need to explain you that your friends are not people you get advantage from in a selfish and vile way. You are supposed to help in the same way, it’s called retribution.

Oh my jesus. Look, even if druid is actually, factually, the absolute worst at healing in the entire game (Which frankly, a lot of your builds don’t establish as well as you think), your friends should be sufficiently decent people to not force you to play a class you don’t want to in PvE. Not a single class, in a single bit of existing content, is so bad that if you have it with you, you will lose. It’s unlikely raids will (I actually have concerns that raids won’t actually require defensive support, but that’s a different matter). It isn’t some horrible drag on your friends to play your favorite class.

None of this means that druid is strong enough, or isn’t strong enough (which I’m actually agnostic on because I don’t really care right now). It means that you either have a warped view on friends and video games, or you are putting forth a warped view because you want bigger numbers for druids.

So i’m right again.
You didn’t need to use so many words.

Seth.8906:

druid bersek can heal a looot more. 10K with 2 skill how can DH do it better?

Dh can heal 5 allies 50K each with one skill. use my link and have a look. You have a bow also although pure guardian would heal much more.

Anyway Druid can not heal 10K even with 4 skill cast.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAWn0rCFsiVsCmsCEtiEaGAOcWA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

StickerHappy.8052:

anduriell.6280:

StickerHappy.8052:

Why are you so worried about the druid not getting picked? You have never even see what the raids look like.

Besides dont you have any friends in game to do raids so you can play whatever you want?

You didn’t gave any reason yet.

I don’t like my friends allowing me the petty spot because i’m no more than a burden.

Your last statement basically means they are not your friends..,or do you have any?

That you understood that is interesting. you don’t have many friends in real life i guess.

I should need to explain you that your friends are not people you get advantage from in a selfish and vile way. You are supposed to help in the same way, it’s called retribution.

Still didn’t give any reason of hy should anybody choose a druid over a guardian or ventari and i guess because you can’t.
That’s fine we already stated that druid is a joke like profession.

Recursivision.2367:

You are using rune of the dolyak.

I know it can get better. but this is for testing purpose in the beta.

In this forum are a lot of people that enjoy healer theme. With Dragonhunter can get so much better and also give so much support than the druid.
So i think is important to help them in this regard. It is not noise it’s something i discovered..

StickerHappy.8052:

Why are you so worried about the druid not getting picked? You have never even see what the raids look like.

Besides dont you have any friends in game to do raids so you can play whatever you want?

You didn’t gave any reason yet.

I don’t like my friends allowing me the petty spot because i’m no more than a burden.

Just saying i found more satisfying a support focused build with the dragonhunter than with the druid. More heals and better support overall. Also i’m able to deal some damage that is always welcome.

i’m going to leave it here.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeTn0ABFditCBmCB0EhlBiS+6/+x3KAWgCI7AXwYA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oP4r5PA-e

StickerHappy.8052:

anduriell.6280:

StickerHappy.8052:

anduriell.6280:

Ok just to put things in perspective, because although i don’t play rev i play guard.
Let’s compare 3 identical builds: Druid, Revenant with ventari, Guardian

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmnLbkInEppkJqEaqEIskEgFYNUSA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAWm0riEaGAOcWA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJApel0AhOhYrQwUIQTEG+DlNAqgHIHhV4OA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oF4r5PA-e

Ventari gives double healing with the staff. The tablet always heals and heals better. Can clean conditions, procs dazes, 360 degrees projectile destruction and heal heal heal. When you need you change to another legend and do DPS/conditions or whatever you want.

Guardian gives double healing with the maze. It has more healing with the shield, projectile protection and drop boons plus a decent burning. It heals you for 200 Hp/tick jsut standing there. More healing, aegis, stability. The elite will heal you for 1.5K just for standing around. Full heal if needed.
It can inst ress you. Proc stability, swiftness and whatever you want.

Druid. Heal 80hp if you are in line. Heal 300 if you are making love with your target or with the druid. Needs a target to heal. To cleanse has to get into CAF and that only if the bar is full. Only one glyph that CC but for that the druid has to metastasis with the target.
No DPS. No strong condition. No condition cleanses, no healing presence. No hard counter to CC. Druid only get 69hp (i like that number) heal if he heals.
If you swap to another weapon you won’t be able to get into CAF. Also ranger DPS is very mild.

Stupidest comparison ever… Why? Comparing an elite spec to a base class… Gg

You did not read my comment. But your comment just reassert my reasons because

The base class GUARD heals better than the Druid, That’s my point.

Exactly… Now compare the ranger base class… Ranger is not designed to heal so all in all the guardian will outheal it.. Duh.. You gotta stop looking stuff out of context.. Druids are there to have a new change of playstyle for ranger.. Not improve something the ranger is not even good at in the first place

That comment is completely dysfunctional. It does not address the lack of everything the druid has, you practically are saying the ranger is trash the druid has to be another kind of trash

Give a reason i would choose a Druid for my raid over a guardian or a ventari using the numbers above. Please a reason with some common sense not coz reasons

Scalpels.2809:

And then there’s the Tempest…

Just watched one outperform a Druid and deliver decent DPS.

Even Guardian is so much better healers than the Druid:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQBeusRicSkmSmoSopSgwSSAAgVA-TxgGgArq/sr8DQJIA-e

200hp/second + 1.5K every 8 seconds just standing around.

StickerHappy.8052:

anduriell.6280:

Ok just to put things in perspective, because although i don’t play rev i play guard.
Let’s compare 3 identical builds: Druid, Revenant with ventari, Guardian

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmnLbkInEppkJqEaqEIskEgFYNUSA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAWm0riEaGAOcWA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJApel0AhOhYrQwUIQTEG+DlNAqgHIHhV4OA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oF4r5PA-e

Ventari gives double healing with the staff. The tablet always heals and heals better. Can clean conditions, procs dazes, 360 degrees projectile destruction and heal heal heal. When you need you change to another legend and do DPS/conditions or whatever you want.

Guardian gives double healing with the maze. It has more healing with the shield, projectile protection and drop boons plus a decent burning. It heals you for 200 Hp/tick jsut standing there. More healing, aegis, stability. The elite will heal you for 1.5K just for standing around. Full heal if needed.
It can inst ress you. Proc stability, swiftness and whatever you want.

Druid. Heal 80hp if you are in line. Heal 300 if you are making love with your target or with the druid. Needs a target to heal. To cleanse has to get into CAF and that only if the bar is full. Only one glyph that CC but for that the druid has to metastasis with the target.
No DPS. No strong condition. No condition cleanses, no healing presence. No hard counter to CC. Druid only get 69hp (i like that number) heal if he heals.
If you swap to another weapon you won’t be able to get into CAF. Also ranger DPS is very mild.

Stupidest comparison ever… Why? Comparing an elite spec to a base class… Gg

You did not read my comment. But your comment just reassert my reasons because

The base class GUARD heals better than the Druid, That’s my point.

So if raids need healers they will bring Ventari or Guardian vanilla. Never a Druid.

Ok just to put things in perspective, because although i don’t play rev i play guard.
Let’s compare 3 identical builds: Druid, Revenant with ventari, Guardian

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmnLbkInEppkJqEaqEIskEgFYNUSA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAWm0riEaGAOcWA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJApel0AhOhYrQwUIQTEG+DlNAqgHIHhV4OA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oF4r5PA-e

Ventari gives double healing than the druid with the staff. The tablet always heals and heals better. Can clean conditions, procs dazes, 360 degrees projectile destruction and heal heal heal. When you need you change to another legend and do DPS/conditions or whatever you want.

Guardian gives double healing than the druid with the maze. It has more healing with the shield, projectile protection and drop boons plus a decent burning. It heals you for 200 Hp/tick jsut standing there. More healing, aegis, stability. The elite will heal you for 1.5K just for standing around. Full heal if needed.
It can inst ress you. Proc stability, swiftness and whatever you want.

Druid. Heal 80hp if you are in line. Heal 300 if you are making love with your target or with the druid. Needs a target to heal. To cleanse has to get into CAF and that only if the bar is full. Only one glyph that CC but for that the druid has to metastasis with the target.
No DPS. No strong condition. No condition cleanses, no healing presence. No hard counter to CC. Druid only get 69hp (i like that number) heal if he heals.
If you swap to another weapon you won’t be able to get into CAF. Also ranger DPS is very mild.

Rutee.1058:

Revenants appear to be complaining about their lower numbers. Healing IS ultimately support, but yes, it’s well within the bounds of possibility that druids simply don’t do enough to justify a slot. I don’t know (Or honestly, really care much, as such. IT’d sure be unfortunate, though)! But I won’t pre-emptively declare the entire concept to be null and void because ‘we have iFrames here’

They are complaining because reasons.
Let’s compare two identical builds once in Ventari another one in Druid:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmnLbkInEppkJqEaqEIskEgFYNUSA-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAGSoZA4wZB-TRhGwArU/ZnyPAKB5s/oD4r5PA-e

The Ventari with the basic Staff#1 AA heal almost double than a Druid. Also it doesn’t need to be in line.
The tablet just standing there will heal you for 150 HP. If it moves it will heal you for 2K.
There is another skill in the staff that heals you for 2K + cleanse conditions
I has a bubble for projectile destruction. No need to look were it’s coming from.
And more heals, dazes and more and more.

And when the innavoidable damage has passed to swap to Shiro/sword and help your team with DPS.

Just like seriously… Not even the wow (not the game) factor . Even the guardian heal for a chunk + full heal and also healing aura for 100 hp / tick.

Druid needs a target to be able to use the healing from the staff…..

Mainly heal is good, only heal is bad.

i hate being always right.
There is so much a profession can do with so little. Focusing exclusively in heal, same as any other extremely narrowed choice for a profession were any other profession has a variety of options is really bad.

That’s common sense.

At the end we have a profession that does nothing more than heal and even that hasn’t got any wow (not the game) factor.
And the most ridiculous thing is that is not even sustainable, you need the zerg around you to be able to sustain yourself because you only get healing if you heal many others.

And this is my new prediction, if Irenio and the other devs keep ignoring their customer’s feedback and do not deeply fix the Druid ( and by the way the ranger also) to became a viable support focused profession it will simply be not just subpar but also punishing to play with it.

And the revenant Ventari/Shiro will be the healers that are going to raids or PvE. Druid will not.

I like the support thing. SUPPORT not only mild heal.

CLERIC/MAGI still 80 heal in staff AA. The druid does not give any support and does not have the wow that’s amazing healing.

WvW the healing is not enough to change anything. If i get into CAF i should be able at least once to heal everybody really fast like Irenio pointed out in the preview.
In PvE there is no point to have that, because the druid need an enemy target to be able to heal.

Ventari heal just moving the tablet around.
IF heal is mandatory in raids, the revenant will the be the one, not druid

In pvp the amount of healing from the Druid and how is designed is useless. Even if you go full cleric and hit like a wet noodle (no rewards btw). Even Avatar state is really bad to heal, the cosmic ray is so slow that your team mates aren’t there when the heal hit. Not that is really that great anyway.

the players that play ranger want a support class. But Druid is simply bad designed because it has to be in melee range to be useful but it has not the means to sustain.
Also the Glyphs aren’t greatly design, being in normal state better than avatar, but still not significant or really helpful.

Range should be increased to 600 though. 450 is better but insufficient for a shout.
Resistance applied could last for longer up to 5 secs so it’s noticeable.
Resistance could be applied only you and your pet.

Druid is definitely weak. Played with full berserk and cleric/magi (2 sets)
Verdant brink and WvW

Good:

• The art involved in this class is very cool.
• The names of the skills fit thematically and the effects.
• Support oriented class.

Bad:

• Staff does very little damage. You have to use it to build astral energy but the player feel somehow very punished for having a healing oriented weapon.
  It needs to do a damage closer to Greatsword than to the Shortbow.
• Healing scaling is too low. Even with 900 healing still the healing with the staff#1 is around 80 hp. The weapon needs to be more relevant for healing.
• Staff could apply condition damage. Burning should be perfect to take the damage output up to the level of other weapons.
• Staff#3 needs to be a teleport instead what is now or increase the range. The skill is really unreliable in most terrains because it does not go in an straight line.
• Staff#3 locks the toon when it finish. Even if you keep pressed forward when the skill end the travel it just lock your toon out for 1 sec. You have to press again the forward key or the Autorun (also deactivate the autorun).

Glyphs

• They are pretty bad. The effects aren’t really useful in any mode although it could be the range of the skill. 300 is too small, consider at least upgrade to 600. The cap is the targets if you add so small range the glyphs are just punishing.
• In general the effects are too weak. They need to be redesign to actually work as support. The only one that can be sometimes useful is the Glyph of Equality because of the Daze with the trait MoC (4 sec. daze). The other glyphs are just forgettable.

The elite Glyph of Unity is really bad for 2 reasons:
The range is too small. It need to have much greater range (cast at least 600, range of link at least 1200)..
Because you have to stay in melee you are being burst all the time by classes with more HP and armor than you. It needs to apply protection.

Avatar
Avatar seems the worst thing about the Druid.
The healing of this form is really low.
The lack of damage in this form is really frustrating. It desperately needs decent damage output in Cosmic ray.

Cosmic ray has a delay of 1-2 seconds from cast so most of the times it won’t land in your team mates if they are moving around.

• The radius of skills#4 and skill#5 is really low. It has to be doubled at least otherwise you have to be on the top of a melee class.

• Skill#2 i didn’t use it much, it’s too slow like the Skill#1 to actually be helpful to others.

• It get consumed too fast although being as it may such punishing mechanic seems like an eternity.
• Having to have the astral bar full most of the times you don’t have access to it when you needed.

Definitely the Avatar state feel like again, the player is being punished for choose a support class.

The Glyphs in the avatar state felt like more weak healing. Didn’t feel to make any difference from casting those to keep hitting Skill#1.

The Druid Mechanics: A bad design thought for other game than GW2.

The druid seems to be designed for another kind of game than to Guild Wars 2 where every single class has access to healing.
The healing provide by the druid is not that amazing. It will not hold your team, the very random burst healing is not a good idea in a game that the damage can be done in a sustainable way.

The druid depends too much in healing others. Which make the class by definition weak. It has no sustain because it has no sources of healing by himself.

The support it provides is really weak and does not has many CC.
Because it needs to be in the middle of the fight but has not got any damage mitigation the druid is a very weak class. Or stays in the back line where it will be of little help or will die constantly.

The damage output is really low compared with the already low damage from other weapons.

The druid trait line offer no synergy with the rest of the class, and because the druid is so different from the original profession as some players already pointed out that looks like a new profession that got scrapped when the reventant came around, it makes the ranger even more squishy or more weak when you have to take the Druid traitline.

Some changes to have in consideration

• Staff needs to do more damage. It’s damage output should be closer to the damage done with the GreatSword. Some condition like burn would be very welcome.
• Glyphs need a rework in normal state. They need to be significant and give more Control Conditions so Druid can actually being able to support it’s team this way.
• Glyphs need a rework in avatar state. They need to differentiate from the healing skills from avatar. They should bring support boons or mechanics that are significant to the team.
• Glyphs need to have increased their range.
• Avatar state has to go away from the pure healing concept. That’s not needed in this game. It needs to deal damage although it’s mainly healing.
• Avatar state has to last longer. You lose the remnant energy when you leave should it has to feel it’s impact is significant. Right now it does not allow to be really helpful.
• Avatar state needs increased range and do more damage. Enough to feel useful.
• The lack of sustain really plague the druid. It need means to be more sustainable, damage mitigation would be very welcome, and active defences like evades that the Staff has none.

Right now this class seems to be designed for people that hasn’t touched a ranger in all his life. Seriously it is really difficult to make a class that is fully committed to support but at the same time is really weak and enfeeble so it dies faster than even the original profession.

Rinse.6094:

There are only 1 + 4 questions, and they already exist hardcoded into the game.

Just wondering, What do you mean with this?

In any case although i see your point and could solve some of the problems with the instances it wouldn’t solve the problem with the pets.
Here i expose some changes to pet pet system to fix the problem of the AI and also the instances probelm.

I won’t copy paste all the information here but basically i point out we have now 2 instances that are insufficient.
I suggest to make 4: Offensive, Defensive, Protective, Passive. The player could rotate them each time the click in the instance mode (A keybind would be nice) in that order to simplify the development.

Also some changes in the AI to actually make the pet to be aware of the surroundings. The pet somehow remind me to a noob that hit all the buttons as soon as they comes out of the cooldown, making the pet to waste too many opportunities.
Now that the new AI implement an supposed easy way to include decision trees to the mobs, do this for the pet should be easy enough.

Also change the shouts to become some sort of command/instances where the pet obtain some passive directives/buffs when those are active. So we can have more control about the role we want for the pet: Do we want the pet to be aggressive? Or we’d like the pet to play a more protecting role?

Although your ideas are really good i think in this case it wouldn’t solve the core problem with the pet.

I think the spirits should get back he traits they had: the mobility and the trigguer on dead. I made a thread where here

Also the spirits need some fixed in how the apply the boons. All except frost has the recharge time that can go up to 10 seconds for 3 seconds boon/condition plus the 75% trigger chance.
Here just pointed out that they should apply the boons/conditions every 6 seconds..
The spirits already have too many conditionals : you have to attack and hit, then you have a 75% chance to trigger and also the recharge time.

I think change the spirits to be something the enemies have to kill before forcusing in the ranger would be nice. Right now the enemies can just ignore them because of a very weak boons.

Thank you!

I suggested the changes in LB because those 2 skills felt incomplete.
Lb#3 gives you stealth for 3 seconds, but without the superspeed you can’t position yourself.
LB#5 is a very long channeled skill that does very little damage. Vulnerability would be a addition to bring the damage up to normal level if the enemy stays in the area without actually unbalance the all lot..

In Survival i found muddy terrain is mostly not used because the skill itself is not very useful and have a long Cd for its effects. Removing the cripple to apply tormen so becomes an offensive skill would improve it. Same as Sharpening stone, 45 secs for bleed, it fill really underwhelming skill. Almost a filler.

Applying bleed, torment and poison would make the skill useful to increment the condition pressure.
Same with entangle. It’s being used in PvP mostly because the other elites aren’t good in those scenarios. But actually entangle miss most of the time because the long cast + vines being dodgeable + vines not very strong.
The stun would help to land the effect + 1 stack of torment to punish the trapped in case the decided to run.

By this i don’t mean the survival or the longbow are bad, they are in much better place that the spirits for example but still this effects would help to improve the usability of the skills in contrast with their so long CDs. Feel more rewarding to use.

There should be a Druid skill that shout that: “WE HEAL NO BAGS!!”

Yep i agree Gaile is doing a great job although would appreciate some info straight from Irenio about what he thinks and what he would like to do.

Not like it would mean that it will be done but at least what is he position in this matter.

About the nerf in WHaO actually i don’t mind. The reality it that it was pretty easy to have an 100% uptime of every boon being the first time i could reach 20 stacks of might by myself. Not that really matter because our DPS is subpar, so with the might we got up to the baseline of the other professions,

I would prefer the other areas within the ranger to become in line of the other classes in game so we wouldn’t be forced in one skill/trait line (wilderness survival anyone?)

I though i’ve commented in this thread… anyway again:
Actually do we know how often can we cast Avatar state? and how long will it last?

Lunar impact :Increase the CD to 6 seconds decrease the Daze to 2 seconds.
4 seconds daze in 6 seconds Cd i think is balanced.

Ok, so i’m thinking about change the shout system to a command switch like base system that gives buffs to the pets when the are active, just to not to do a copy paste you can read more about this crazy idea about improving the pets in my signature
Although the idea of the commands seems nice and the people generally liked it has some shortcomings:

• they would stop working as shouts, so the runes of the trooper would stop working with those. Not that really matters because they are buggy.
• the trait resounding timbre should be reworked because it’s not like you would cast the command continuously, once activated stays that way until you swap pets or change command.

We Heal as One as command: When this command is active the coping boon is in effect. Might changed to 1 stack instead of 3 per application. The ranger can still stack might but the pet would have to get 25 applications (one application can apply 5 stacks but only 1 stack will be copied to the ranger).
This makes easier also to develop the skill, only have to trigger when some boon is applied.
When this command is active it can be activated again which will cast the healing like now. 20 seconds CD.

Strength of the pack. When this command is active will do the following.
when struck will cast fury, stability and swiftness for 6 seconds. Internal cooldown 30 seconds.
When active and activated again will cast help from the pack. Another pet will spawn (same family and stats as the equipped pet) and will attack same fashion as the F2 for the hyena for 20 seconds. Cd 45 seconds.
I love that F2 but the hyena is a very weak pet, so it can’t be used.

What do you think? could this be the answer to the problems with the shouts?

Actually do we know how often can we cast Avatar state? and how long will it last?

Anyway: Increase the CD to 6 seconds decrease the Daze to 2 seconds.
4 seconds daze in 6 seconds Cd i think is balanced.

Well and this post i’ll give my opinion about some changes in the ranger skill system although there are already countless threads with very good ideas in it.
i’m including torment in some skills, It seems appropriate because it’s a condition that punish movement and the ranger apply a lot of cripple.

WEAPONS

• Sword :

Sword#1 AA chain locks the ranger in place. Should be changed to this chain in this order so the leap can be cast at the beginning as a gap closer.:
-Pounce. Leap 600. Only activate if there is a target selected otherwise it just do in place.
-Slash : range 130
-Kick: no a leap anymore. Range 130, can be cancelled.

Serpent’s Strike: This skill is very unreliable because the skill can not calculate correctly the path to the target due the terrain irregularities. I would change the path to do the roll in a straight line stopping the ranger behind the target and backstabbing it (the ranger turn around to hit the target so we can continue with the attack).

• Shortbow
  The main problem with the shortbow is the AA. Very low damage and condition pressure.

Shortbow#1 : Apply bleeding 3 stacks 1 second. If hit from behind or a side also apply Cripple (3 sec).

Shortbow#3: also Apply Weakness (3 sec). Should apply leap or blast to fields.

Shortbow#4: It does not apply cripple, apply Torment instead (3 seconds).
I don’t think this weapon should get a buff in direct damage because of the attack speed.

• Axe
  This weapon has a weird delay when casting any skill. It feels clunky and unresponsive.

Axe#1, Axe#2, Axe#3: Improve the attack speed in a 25% OR reduce the range to 600 and reduce the attack speed 50%.

Axe#3: It behaves like Axe#1, hit max of 3 targets applying chill in each of them.

Axe#4 : most of the times doesn’t finish the attack losing the second impact and the pull because of the terrain. Change the mechanic to behave like a normal projectile without the parable. If the engine is not prepared to do the boomerang effect, an easy way would make the axe projectile when get destroyed (end of it’s path or hit a wall or a player skill that destroys proyectiles) cast another axe that goes towards the ranger that push the foes to the ranger.

Axe#5 need the rooting effect to be removed.

• Longbow

Longbow#3 : needs to apply superspeed to the ranger 3 seconds.

Longbow#5 : Need to apply also vulnerability same way as cripple.

• Warhorn

Warhorn#4 need to apply blind 10 sec. Should apply blast.

SKILLS

• Spirits:
  the overnerf of the last balance patch was very aggressive with this skills. Now that we know Druid is not touching those we need to bring them up to the level of the rest of the skills.
• some players like them immobile, most of the players i think prefer them mobile. There should come back the trait of mobile spirits. More info where to put it in this thread
• The interval are too long for a 3 second boon/condition. Should be reduced to 6 seconds in all of them.
• It they can become mobile the active radius is ok. Otherwise the active effects should be changed because the area is too small to be useful.
• Spirit of the Nature : passive increased to 900 radius. Right now you have to be on top of the spirit which actually kills it.

• Shouts.
  Some to change to become commands where the pet get some improvements towards some situations. More info in this thread were i talk about improvements in the pet system to become a ranger’s tool instead a burden.

• Traps
• Frost Trap : Remove boons also. i would advise 3 boons removed when triggered.

• Survival
• Muddy terrain: Cripple effect removed. Remove the duration. Apply Immobilize 5 seconds, Torment 5 seconds.
• Sharpening Stone. Reduce 30 seconds CD. Apply next 5 attacks 1 stack of bleed, torment and poison. 1 stack 6 sec each.
• Quickening Zephir : Reduce CD to 45 seconds.
• Entangle: Apply stun 1 second and torment 1 stack 5 seconds.

Personally i’d like the shouts to become commands that behave like switches, they stay active as long as you don’t cancel it. But that could break the actual mechanics between the shouts, runes and trait.
Any change would be good, We Heal As One is amazing now.

Yes, the problem is not a newb level 20 ranger to share his opinion.
The problem is when someone that mainly play other class like warrior, thief or mesmer come to this forums asking for nerfs or giving misleading feedback.
Unfortunately we don’t have Robert or Roy both of them have a really clear idea of what is the core profession and what should be done to have a fun and rewarding specialisation.
The Devs in charge of the ranger up until recently were quick to apply nerfs but never to fix or improve the playability of the class. And still there is no communication about anything which lead to more despair.

So yes i could go that far to say that there should be some kind of filter by the devs to take the input based on how many hours you played ranger the last months.

Lazze.9870:

anduriell.6280:

Well i’ve heard that the devs are thinking to rename Celestial Avatar to tome of courage 2,0.
The only skill that is different between the tome and avatar is the best skill the tome had: full heal your party (avatar -5).

Why couldn’t they have to come up with more differentiating skills instead 10 heals? I think with Cosmic ray we have already enough clickfest and healing for the party….

I was replying someone discussing the thematics, not the mechanics. So what about quoting someone who can be bothered with your pile of complaints, because at the moment I can’t.

They mentioned potentially adding damage to the heal skills. And we got a beta which after you can tell Anet exactly how one-sided you feel the druid is.

I like the way you shut down when someone tells you some facts you don’t like.

Don’t get me started in having just ONE beta to make the adjustments to this class, while even the reaper that was introduced the first is still fine tuning. Even now we yet have to see any post of Irenio regarding the feedback about the druid, even if it’s only to say hey guys we have read your suggestions and are thinking about them even if it’s just to calm the mob.

So yes i foresee most of the white knights here turning to reapers after testing the druid. And the people that like to play with the ranger will be still locked out from every single game mode except open world PvE.

But this time we could say the culprits are the ranger Dev for not to communicate.

Kitty La Boom Boom.4065:

FrouFrou.4958:

SkiTz.4590:

Well good thing it won’t be changed for another couple months, or more =)

Anet loves to leave things OP as long as possible.

OP and rangers are not meant to be, the nerfplosion is imminent. This is scientifically proven that rangers can’t have nice things.

So let me get see if I have this right.
Rangers ask for some love.
Rangers get some love.
Rangers complain, instead of saying thank you.

Got it.

That’s the thing, there a no rangers here complaining. This people are the ones that lost against a ranger in PvP. They are not used to fight rangers because we don’t have dps or sustain so when the mechanics allow the rangers to have some gameplay the other classes cry out loud.

You can not get perma anything with that trait than you can’t have on your own. 10 seconds Quickness instead of 6 every 40 ? Is that what this is complaining about? I could say is a L2P issue more than anything.

Problem here is there are not many rangers left and the ones that are still here or get banned or don’t trust Anet to deliver. So most mst you see is just from other mains that use ranger for casual farming.