Guild Wars 2

Ben Phongluangtham.1065:

Just for kicks, we looked recently.

Ranked games this season: Red is 50.5% vs, Blue 49.5%.

When do we get our support red and support blue badges and living world content based on either red or blue winning this year?

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Druid is not getting replaced because of religious belief “he’s the best” without looking at the bigger picture. If we put emotions aside and focus on numbers the answer might be much less druid friendly then one thinks.

But for now that is a “might” as we have yet to get the finalized specs with known new runesets, gear stat sets and access to all of that in PvE. So for now i’ll hold my horses on further discussion.

Nike summed it up nicely here about why condi Druid is so good at the moment which is also why it won’t be replaced any time soon without significant changes to the buffs it brings in Frost/Sun spirit, GotL and spotter.

To be fair warrior brings equally strong buffs with the banners but all you need to replace a condi warrior is a build that does the same DPS and can stack 25 might and run with 1 warrior now banner affect 10 people reliably.

Roxanne.6140:

hey can someone throw me a bone and tell me what R word is being referred to here? kitten censoring.

Violating someone in a very personal manner.

Pretty much what Esplen said but you can more or less squarely put it down to the phantasm mechanic. They’re also bound to your target, not you so can disappear very easily either due to target death or target runs/invulnerable.

Phantasms constitute a sizeable chunk of our sustained damage but in PvP they die very fast (except avengers as they have silly health) and don’t generally do more than 1 hit if that. They also give the opponent far more control over a mesmers damage than the mesmer has, remember we’re talking about core mesmer so most classes can also outrun or kite your shatters with swiftness. So the only phantasms that even remotely work are ranged ones with decent projectile speed, so phantasmal duelist.

In PvE they used to also die to cleave super easy, this has been bandaid fixed in the same way other AI pets also take 95% less damage unless targeted. However it still suffers from the phantasms being bound to targets so if the target dies very quickly you don’t even get to reach full damage by summoning 3 of your best phantasms. This was a much bigger issue in the dungeon days but less so now that many bosses have huge health pools however mesmers suffer from bosses or encounters where you require a special buff or maguffin to damage them, also encounters made up of lots of small to medium health enemies.

So this is why mesmer is a buff bot, they have been given the most access to quickness and other boon sharing while also being one of the biggest and for a time only source of the cool down reduction buff alacrity.

I also wished that mesmer was more about clone swapping than about stealth and you would no longer have phantasms just clone generation skills and shatters that use clones for effects. Then the damage and dps of mesmers skills could be properly adjusted while hopefully opening more effective play styles in PvP/WvW by having more sustained damage that you have control over, not the other way around.

Legit had no clue about what you were talking about till Xikira explained, thought you meant the r word for someone who is a bit slow.

Also, I find the OPs viewpoint and many others here shameful in turning it almost exclusively into a female perspective only, it is not something that only happens to women. Just like domestic abuse is becoming more and more common against men yet is typically portrayed as something that happens to women.

Before someone jumps down my throat, no I don’t condone the behaviours being talked about by any gender and/or those who identify as apache helicopters against any other gender and/or those who identify as apache helicopters.

Rising Dusk.2408:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

The replacement needs 16.6k to send both of these boys and their grace of the land home.

Is there a reason you’re conveniently skipping the 5-7% power damage gain from Frost Spirit, the 2-4% condition damage gain from Sun Spirit, and the 7% critical hit chance from Spotter all in addition to GotL? Is there also a reason you’ve basically ignored the relevance of condition Druid in your analysis? Most encounters don’t need 2 healer Druids in even particularly bad groups, and can at least run 1 condition Druid.

P.S. If you run enough healing gear on a Scourge for it to actually heal/apply meaningful barrier, its damage is going to be terrible in addition to forgoing all of the buffs that a Druid provides. It’s lose-lose.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that…

…you are right though, no way is Druid getting replaced based on what we previewed, chances are there would need to be a big shake up of unique buffs in general before you see them replaced even several expansions down the line.

Wraistlin.6072:

apharma.3741:

Some of those bonuses would get pretty crazy pretty fast, 300 more power is 10 stacks of might, adding another 10% modifier ontop of elements of rage would get pretty silly for meteor in PvE.

I really don’t think this is a route that should be gone down. Weaver is about not fully attuning yet nearly every single post by everyone is going on about fully attuning.

Disagree, weaver is a mix of both, hence the ability to full attune, and abilities that have specific conditions when fully attuned (primordial stance). Clearly it was Anet’s intention to weave in and out and mix elements or fully attune. Which is why there has been so much discussion about unravel as part of the elite spec instead of a utility.

Agree or disagree but as I say gaining double benefit from trait lines would push ele back into god mode with a complex rotation. Nothing would touch the damage an ele could do, absolutely nothing. Just check out Fennec and Contrams testing of weaver with just alacrity, they fully attune for meteor for elements of rage and then swap out so they get a 10% increase.

If they also gained 150 more power and another 10% modifier it would get kinda silly and we aren’t even going into hypotheticals of including piercing shards from water attunement. If you could double proc that you’d see water/fire cast meteor and swap water fully to get elements of rage +40% from piercing shards. The rotation might be hard as nails to pull off but with so many modifiers it would get very silly very fast.

Sublimatio.6981:

^ maybe you should play with better mesmers then?

It’s not just that, most of the alacrity comes from phantasmal avengers who give 2s and with phantasmal haste it attacks every 6s roughly but without it’s 7.6s so not running illusions will impact uptime. More importantly it only applies in a 240 range so any bosses where you’re having to move away and move back will significantly affect the uptime.

I respect you as an excellent player but this comment of yours is incredibly toxic, the guy you’re responding to said that you don’t often get 100% uptime outside of stationary boss fights. I mean please do show me you having 100% uptime on all the bosses in raids, if not at least adjust your current position and state something believable like 80% uptime.

The nearest I could get to something remotely like the picture was profane top, triumphant boots and leggings and generic looking gloves, there’s a few of them. Then pick some shoulders to give as close to the collar as you can. Don’t know if the norn have racial clothes that might fit better, I know they’re big fans of cleavage on everything so might find a top that works better. You’re not likely to find elbow length gloves though and the leggings that are closest to the picture is probably order of whispers but it clips weirdly with everything, you’ll see if you preview in game.

StickerHappy.8052:

Trigr.6481:

The video is long, treat it as a podcast and it should be enjoyable for you. Myself and Zeromis discussed numerous changes to mirage traits, as well as other trait lines and weapon improvements including the following. I hope you enjoy and please leave your feedback regarding our discussion which can be found in the link below. And If you’re short on time I included everything we discussed in the video, as well as a few things we forgot to mention that are included below in this post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmcm-p1HK1A

Weapon Changes

Off hand Sword:

illusionary reposte – Block incoming attacks for a short duration, if you successfully block an attack gain an illusion & access to counter blade

Block Duration 1.5 seconds

Counter Blade: Swap places with the illusion created by illusionary riposte and stab your sword in the ground, knocking enemies down within the radius. "the animation will be similar to greatsword 3. You will only have a 5 second window to swap with your illusion after a successful block

Damage : 710
Radius: 240
Max targets knocked down: 3
Knockdown time: 1.5 seconds
Range: 600
Cast time : ¾ second. You can cast this while moving

Off Hand Focus:

Phantasmal Warden – Phantasmal Warden now chases its target while attacking until destroyed or shattered.

Traitlines

---

Mirage—-

Minor Adept 1 – “Self-Deception” Changed to “Decepting Ambush” – Generate a clone whenever YOU successfully hit with a ambush ability.

Minor Adept 3 – “Riddle of Sand” Changed to “Deception Training” – Your deception skills are reduced by 1 second every time you use mirage cloak.

Major Master 1 – “Shards of Glass” – When you shatter with 2 or more illusions, spawn a mirage mirror at your location.

Major Grandmaster 1 – “Infinite horizon” This ability now effects phantasms, phantasms now fire a portion of their attack when mirage cloak is activated.

Major Grandmaster 2 – “Elusive Mind” This trait is now effected by mirage mirrors

—Ambush Abilities—

Staff – Cast time reduced by half, speed up projectile pathing

Scepter – You can now cast the ambush attack while moving, speed up projectile pathing.

Greatsword – Leap at your foe, granting might for each target struck
Damage: 400
Number of Targets: 5
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 450
Might duration 10 seconds

---

Domination —-

Imagined Burden – Your Greatsword skills are improved
-Spacial Surge – Number of targets increased from 3 to 4
-Mirror Blade – Gives 4 stacks of might instead of 3 –
-Mind Stab – Now removes 2 boons from foes instead of 1, and transfers one random condition from you to your foe.
-Phantasmal Beserker – Number of impacts increased from 4 to 5
-illusionary wave – knockback increased from 450 to 600

Power Block : Interrupts deal damage and inflict weakness, Enemy skills
that you interrupt have an increased cooldown. (If you interrupt a skill
that has no recharge, inflict slow for 3 seconds.)
Damage 399

---

Inspiration—-

Wardens Feedback: is now in the place of Temporal Enchanter

Wardens Feedback: Your focus skills have been improved. Gain access to the following

-Focus recharge reduced by 20%

- Temporal Curtain: Now also grants super speed to yourself and allies for 3 seconds upon first entering. Reflects projectiles

- Into The Void: Now cripples foes upon activation. Damages all foes based off how many are enemies pulled.

Max number of of foes crippled: 5
Cripple duration: 3 seconds
Void Damage 1 Enemy : 210
Void Damage 2 Enemies : 231
Void Damage 3 Enemies: 252
Void Damage 4 Enemies: 273
Void Damage 5 Enemies: 294

---

Chaos—-

Mirror Of Anguish: When disabled by stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, fear, taunt, or launch, your next attack will mimic whatever control effect you were effected by to the enemy. “This will be a on screen proc with a duration”

Mirror Of Anguish Activation duration – 10 seconds

---

Heal Skill—-

False Oasis: Once the mirage mirror activates, you will get a shadowstep ability in place of your heal that ports you back to the mirror until the mirror shatters.

Shadowstep duration – 4 seconds
Range – 900

Thank you

Countless

Great post man.

Although 1 BIG FLAW

…..
….
…
..
.

Never post anything in the mesmer forums especially if it’s centered around PvP / WvW mechanics. There are only a few here that would understand. The rest would just argue with you all day/night long. Majority here don’t even know who frostball is..

No, the big flaw is he’s essentially power creeping the core lines and wanting to make some already absurdly strong traits in mirage much stronger. I mean slow on interrupt if a skill has no CD? Geee whizz I wonder which class that’s targeted at!? I could poke at the rest of the post in specifics but he’s just trying to do the same thing with phantasms as everyone else, bandaid force them to work instead of saying “This kitten don’t work” and throwing it out.

Or do you honestly think elusive mind should stunbreak and cleanse a condition every time you gain mirage cloak?

Reaper Alim.4176:

Ithilwen.1529:

Bella Kim.4061:

Archer.4362:

You have not used the mesmer if you say they are just as balanced.

Chrono is 100% better

I say Mirage and Chronomancer are almost equal to each other

because

Mirage has better mobility (Mirage can close gap and leap away very often)

Mirage has more CC

Mirage has more evades

Mirage dodge duration is 1 second (Chronomancer dodge is 0.75 seconds)
(Mirage is the only class that has 1 second dodge
every other class has 0.75 second dodge)

Mirage dodge breaks stun and removes conditions
(This means Mirage can remove Stuns and Immobs every 10 seconds)

I think that you are looking at numbers on paper. From experience, Mirage is in no way equivalent to Chronomancer and is a little inferior to core Mesmer.

After testing Mirage myself. I came to the same conclusion. But hey it looked cool, right?

In all fairness Chrono set the bar insanely high…

Very nice, shame I’ll never use axe on mesmer most likely.

It’s definitly meant to be a norn so if you want to be true to it then make a norn.

As for the costume, I think the closest in game is exempler outfit but really nothing fits it.

The ambush on sword is so very strong, excellent for getting away from being chased as shown here. Lots of teleports with jaunt, blink and mirage advance.

Anyone remember old black powder? How it used to make you mostly immune to damage for it’s duration? Lets not go back to that please.

For anyone who wants to experience old black powder go to WvW and fight a camp scout in melee, they changed black powder for players but forgot about those guys.

Some of those bonuses would get pretty crazy pretty fast, 300 more power is 10 stacks of might, adding another 10% modifier ontop of elements of rage would get pretty silly for meteor in PvE.

I really don’t think this is a route that should be gone down. Weaver is about not fully attuning yet nearly every single post by everyone is going on about fully attuning.

Mirage Cloak:
Seems ok as a mechanic, it’s essentially an evade you can use while doing everything else which is very strong. The ambush attacks range from useful to useless but they could do with having 2s to use them.

Utilities:
False Oasis
Basically it’s an 8100 heal over time on 30s CD which gives vigor and a mirage mirror. Because mirage mirrors are kind of situational at best and at worst absolutely useless Well of Eternity and Ether Feast are much better usually as the former replenishes endurance and removes condi for 1000 less heal and the later with a few clones heals for much more in raw health.

Crystal Sands
This utility looks nice, the art department did a number on it but that’s all I can say about it. The skill barely hits, the cool down is fairly long for what it is and it has no real effect other than damage and give a mirage mirror. It’s a shame it doesn’t happen in reverse, spawn a mirror (for 10s) and when you take it this expanding AoE of sand inflicts 5 confusion on all it hits, can keep the same sand animation but in reverse.

Mirage Advance
Drop it to 1/2s or 1/4s cast and it’ll be good.

Illusionary Ambush
Fine as is, might be nice to have a 20-25s CD tbh as this is a major aspect of mirage.

Sand Through Glass
This skill is silly, it’s like a worse version of blink as it has a shorter range and I can’t use it to cross the Z axis. Why would I use it and want the mirage mirror to appear where I wanted to evade away from?! I would use this to get away from that area not to go back there so this should spawn it 600 units behind where you used the skill and drop it down to 25s CD.

Jaunt
Pretty good elite, make it 600 range and you’re golden, we finally have an elite people might use over Mass Invis, Moa or Gravity Well. Could probably lose the leap finisher on it.

Mirrors:
In general I found they disappeared too quick and ended up spawning in places I wouldn’t be running back to grab them from. They also don’t really reward me for grabbing them, maybe expand the weakness range to 240 or more and double the duration they linger for.

On the whole I wasn’t very impressed by the utilities except Jaunt, some are promising like mirage advance, some are flat out bad.

Trigr.6481:

Allarius.5670:

Whether or not you agree with the implementation, I do think it was intended this way and it is how I read it. The Mirage Cloak trait causes your dodge key to lose its normal function, it now grants the Mirage Cloak status effect. Mirage Mirrors also grant the Mirage Cloak status effect. Elusive Mind insinuates activation of the trait based on the dodge key, not based on gaining the Mirage Cloak status nor evading attacks.

I disagree, I still feel it’s a bug. If it’s mirage cloak it’s linked to dodge rolling, period. Therefore regardless of where it came from it should proc elusive mind.

No, they very clearly state on dodge, not on ambush attack, not on mirage cloak, not on evade but on dodge. That means on press of the dodge key.

If you look at the wording on the minor adept it states you gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling so any on dodge skills (present or future) don’t necessarily translate over to when you gain mirage cloak. It’s already a strong trait that quite frankly shouldn’t be in the game at all like stab on dodge was for revs. It doesn’t need to also be triggered by getting mirage cloak.

Trigr.6481:

apharma.3741:

Trigr.6481:

Exciton.8942:

Having every ambush attack generate a clone might be too strong for an adept. I suggested having it replacing riddle of sand. Your ambush attack generate a clone but only refreshes after you shatter.

Your suggestion on deception trait is what devs tried to move away from i.e. conditional CD reduction. They just changed back staff and torch CD reduction trait. So my suggestion would be having your next ambush attack apply 2 stacks of confusion after using deception skill.

I like suggestions on improving other mesmer off-hand weapons.

I also like having mirage mirror spawning at more accessible locations.

I think elusive mind is strong enough and doesn not need to be buffed.

Adept to grandmaster, it doesn’t really matter tier they’re in. The only thing that matters is two things

- What the trait is competing with in the same tier
- And whether or not the other choices has synergy in the same tree with the one you picked.

The change myself and zeromis suggested isn’t even as strong as deceptive evasion, because you need to dodge to trigger mirage cloak, ambush, and connect with it as compared to simply dodging, So I don’t really see a problem.

When it comes to elusive mind that’s not really your call, it honestly could be a design flaw or a bug, so we won’t know that till we get confirmation. And riddle of sand would be a great trait to compete with deceptive ambush, you have to choose between clone production or reduced cooldown on deception skills.

Countless

Not your call either but anyone with an ounce of sense knows stunbreak on dodge is insanely strong.

Anyone with a ounce of sense knows that the mirrors are mirage cloak, and since elusive mind doesn’t clear the condi or break stun that means it’s a bug. But if you want to make an argument against the idea of them not fixing bugs in the game then feel free to make a fool of yourself.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind

I’m sorry, what were you saying about being a fool?

If it isn’t stun breaking or clearing a condition then it’s bugged but going off how it’s intended to work, stunbreak and cleanse on dodge is insanely strong.

It depends on who and what you’re fighting.

In your example of guardian most use smite condition and have quite a number of cleanses, smite condition will cleanse the blind and hit you for more damage because it cleansed. Then you’ll have the attack they throw out added on top of that so you take a big chunk of damage anyway.

That’s without mentioning how DH has a much better match up vs the thief in PvP anyway.

If you were fighting a necro then blind would be significantly stronger as you can dodge the few multi hitting attacks and blind the few strong hitting attacks. There’s also a lot of other places where shadowshot is much more useful and against some off meta builds it’s far better too but you’re not likely to see them in PvP.

Trigr.6481:

Exciton.8942:

Having every ambush attack generate a clone might be too strong for an adept. I suggested having it replacing riddle of sand. Your ambush attack generate a clone but only refreshes after you shatter.

Your suggestion on deception trait is what devs tried to move away from i.e. conditional CD reduction. They just changed back staff and torch CD reduction trait. So my suggestion would be having your next ambush attack apply 2 stacks of confusion after using deception skill.

I like suggestions on improving other mesmer off-hand weapons.

I also like having mirage mirror spawning at more accessible locations.

I think elusive mind is strong enough and doesn not need to be buffed.

Adept to grandmaster, it doesn’t really matter tier they’re in. The only thing that matters is two things

- What the trait is competing with in the same tier
- And whether or not the other choices has synergy in the same tree with the one you picked.

The change myself and zeromis suggested isn’t even as strong as deceptive evasion, because you need to dodge to trigger mirage cloak, ambush, and connect with it as compared to simply dodging, So I don’t really see a problem.

When it comes to elusive mind that’s not really your call, it honestly could be a design flaw or a bug, so we won’t know that till we get confirmation. And riddle of sand would be a great trait to compete with deceptive ambush, you have to choose between clone production or reduced cooldown on deception skills.

Countless

Not your call either but anyone with an ounce of sense knows stunbreak on dodge is insanely strong. Duelling with meat and orian truffle food and energy sigil mean in WvW you’re essentially immune to hard CC as you naturally regain a dodge every 5.5s and regain a full dodge ever weapon swap.

Even in PvP it would be either redundant because of how many stunbreaks/teleports a mesmer has or just as broken.

That’s without mentioning the other part of cleansing a condition on dodge. Elusive mind does not need to be buffed at all.

Skittledness.5106:

After theory crafting with phanta this is what we came up with

Change the last change from all autos from 3/4 to 2/4
Buff air 2 range from 450 to 600 (can’t make any z axis teles)
Buff fire 2 power impact damage and buff range to 600
Water/earth add projectile finisher
Unravel hexes removes all condis at a 1 sec interval (so your not forced into water/arcane)
Remove root from sword earth #3 (or buff damage)
After fully attuning the attunement cd swap time is halfed(fully attuning punishes way to hard)

I fooled around with the idea of insta double attuning but that breaks the design of weaver and it dumbs down the class.
Bye friends!

Change to a 1/2s cast on all parts of the auto, look at every single sword attack in the game, only a few have longer than 1/2s cast and those are usually preceded by a 1/4s cast part. In fact most GS attacks have a 1/2s cast per portion of damage given (mesmer is 1.5s but does 3 attacks so is about 1/2s per attack). So no, it’s not just part of it that needs a reduction in cast time it’s all of the auto as well as making sure the aftercast isn’t out of alignment.

Fully attuning to an element isn’t what weaver is about, letting people fully attune quicker isn’t the solution you should be asking for. You should be asking for the dual skills or the play style to be better. This is why many have said a 2.5-3s attunement swap recharge would hit the spot nicely as it takes 10-12s to rotate through all the elements, about the same time as core would take but with some advantages and some drawbacks.

bluri.2653:

NotASmurf.1725:

saerni.2584:

Condi on S/D has literally nothing to do with Daredevil.

Impaling Lotus adds 3 conditions to cover the poison stacks just by dodging, 4 with the vulnerability sigil. That’s the only reason condi thief is kinda broken, because cleanses can barely dig through all the cover condis.

choovanski.5462:

ToF really dude? like really?

not like. bugfix firebrand. speed up casttimes. make the 33% cd trait effect virtues. and increase healing power scaling.

feel like that would be far better than nerfing ToF again lol. but I guess if it’s still killing u I get it lol. pretty embarrassing to be rolled by trapper these days.

Then don’t nerf ToF, I don’t care, but something has to be done. No, I have no problem with DHs now, it’s a problem for the future. Have you played against any this weekend on new specs? It’s ridiculously effective for no real effort. Or Daredevil, which makes any future thief spec completely garbage because it outdoes them in every way AND counters them.

I for one do not want another HoT release. Season 1 turned a lot of players away from the game, I do not want another disaster. This is our last chance to make something out of PvP and these 2 cancer specs cannot stay as they are.

Idk I would have loved a sword/sword thief/blademaster type of gameplay and base it around 1v1 instead of some terrible sniper CoD wannabe, it’s so obvious it’s not gonna work in pvp it’s actually laughable. So of course you are gonna have daredevil outperform any thief build in pvp because no one can compete with the +1 role as they do, nerf that and you won’t have any thief in the top tiers, will be down there with what warrior is right now. Like don’t get me wrong I would love to be wrong and get to play something else. I am tired of seeing the same meta that’s why I’m so disappointed in rifle to begin with.

And tbh let them nerf drd to the ground if they want would just give me an excuse to play some other class LUL

Well tbh it wouldn’t be a bad thing if DD mobility was tuned down to be a bit more than core thief but not hugely but instead have better 1v1 capacity…you know how it was advertised. As you say nothing, absolutely nothing can beat DD mobility, I even remember seeing you manage to get to far maybe a second or two after someone who mistformed through a portal.

Jski.6180:

MyPuppy.8970:

Staff fire aa is around 1s cast time + ~1.5s travel time 1200 range hits 3 targets in 180 radius if i’m correct.
That’s 2.5s to hit, that’s already quite long.

Sword fire aa chain is 1/2+3/4+3/4= 2s at 130 range on 3 targets… 2 full seconds at close range, and self interruptable when you have to switch attunement (for preparing a burst/ for defence/ for combo / whatever your reason). I think the aa chain on all elements should be 1/4+1/2+1/2 at most. 1s the full chain would be ideal (1/4-1/4-1/2)

That low of a cast time you would need to cut the dmg on the 1 and 2 skills to nearly nothing. I think removing the chains altogether and combining them into a big 1 skill that takes say 1/2 sec to 1 sec to use would be much better but add in an after cast of a 1/2 sec to balance it out.

Except it is exactly how nearly every other sword auto works, go look them up on the wiki. Most have 1/2 cast times but no-one here is thinking about the aftercasts, with aftercasts of 0.125-0.25s an auto chain can take anywhere from 0.3s to 0.75s longer to execute, this is what is compounding the auto attack feeling slow.

Judging from the preview it wouldn’t surprise me if a full auto took 2.75s to complete and had 1/4s aftercasts.

maddoctor.2738:

An idea for condi cleanse:
What if Weavers got their version of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abrasive_Gift ?
There are a lot of ways to get Barrier on Weaver, you can use traits to get Barrier when you dodge and when you use dual skills.
Removing conditions when getting a barrier effect would work well on Weaver. Perhaps too well?

If it was any time you gained a barrier then some skills would remove tons of conditions, lava skin anyone? Dual skills would remove a condition each and you’d remove tons of conditions with stone resonance and add in a scourge and anything that grants pulsing barrier and you’ll essentially be immune to conditions. Might be good but it would make elemental pursuit a bit weird giving super speed now.

I personally prefer the idea of removing conditions with super speed as it pairs up so well with twist of fate, elemental pursuit, one with air and anything else that gives you super speed like engineers and druids and any future elite specs. It’s also not something you can really keep up without quite a decent investment into super speed via traits and utilities. Barrier is going to be spammed heavily by scourge every few seconds they will be giving allies barrier and cleansing, I feel that interaction would be far too strong.

Just so you know blurred frenzy does A LOT more damage in the guild hall than it does in WvW. They buffed it to deal double damage in PvE which translates over to the guild hall. I duelled a friend of mine like you are here and I was seeing 8k+ blurred frenzies with no damage mods while in WvW it would be about half that.

Edit: Before someone takes that to mean anything like “Feint exploited” or whatever moronic rubbish people on the internet come up with I’m not, just pointing out a few of the one shots with blurred frenzy wouldn’t have done as much damage. Think mental anguish is also higher in the guild hall btw if he was running that instead of his usual insp/illu/chrono build.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Everyone complains about power creep, and the day we all find out there really isn’t any more power creep to come, everyone complains.

PoF classes shouldn’t be better overall, period.

I agree to a point but the new elite specs should bring something to the table the other elite and core of that class don’t have. This isn’t always true with the PoF elite specs and some utilities, heals and elites are objectively worse traiting or not than core skills.

I’m not saying they need to be stronger but they need to be equal or at least have a niche.

Yeah it would be overpowered at 2 per second if it was all conditions but I’d argue a case for adjusting the ICD to 3/4s or 1s and losing a condition damaging, debilitating and movement impairing all included.

This would allow for a FA play style or a super speed heavy build to get its cleanses without going into water and instead choose different lines. They would lack the raw healing and sustain from water but it would free up build diversity immensely.

Jski.6180:

apharma.3741:

Jski.6180:

apharma.3741:

You’re completely missing what I’m saying. I’m saying core ele can keep up protection permanently, weaver finds this much harder as the moment you have swapped out of earth fully the protection has run out. Barrier in no way makes up for that.

D/D core ele is a better bruiser than this bruiser spec atm.

Swaping out of earth for core ele takes 7 sec before you can swap back into it. Weaver at worst needs to wait 7 sec too. Earth wait for cd water wait for cd earth wait for cd something else wait for cd earth. How is that diffrent. Atument cdr effects the goble cd of weaver swaps.

With core ele you get the advantage of swapping into earth and water but also go into fire and air and use their stronger attacks and buffs. On weaver the way you’re saying you’re just swapping between water and earth, your attacks will lack damage, you’ll miss out on swiftness.

At this point I feel you’re being deliberately silly if you cannot see how bad camping 2 elements is vs a full rotation through all elements utilising choice skills from each as needed.

Well no its a 2 step thing you go fire earth air earth water earth like that your allways going to get back to earth and keep that perma protection if you so want it but you will be able to keep up the other boons due to how long they will last. The fact that weaver has barror and core atm dose not and that barror is on dodge roll makes weaver a far better bruser on its own BUT if you add in def states such as Twist of Fate and geting more stab from that AND getting more stab from the core ele effects makes you nearly impossible to be cc like a core ele.

The problem is not that weaver is not tankly is super tankly its the lack of dmg that is bugging ppl all though most of the dmg on ele should be coming from a scepter its the sword that in a weird places.

Going in that rotation you will very rarely do much damage at all as you’ll spend most of your time in earth and water. It’s also a very dumb rotation to complain about doing no damage in, ofc you won’t, it’s your healing and tanky element types that you spend most of your time going fire, earth, air, water, earth, fire, water, earth, air, water etc.

Barrier on dodge is only if you trait for it, granted unravel hexes and elements of rage aren’t competitive with it but it’s still not going to save your bacon much. Most D/D core ele builds will either go fire getting the extra cleanse and blinds from burns or if they really want they can go earth and be much tankier by being immune to crits with good stab access.

At the moment D/D core is much better equipped to sustain as well as this boring weaver play you’re suggesting but also puts out far more damage. That is why it’s a better bruiser atm.

Guys he’s keeping it a secret so it gives him the edge to win the world championship!

Firstly, you’re an ele, your role if you aren’t playing magi is to deal damage. You should not be “offering healing and buff support” usually. You should be doing lots of damage killing the enemies really fast and relying on your team to do most of the rest. The only time you might buff is prestacking might and fury or the occaisonal conjured weapon.

Secondly, you’ve been playing 4 days. You will not be anywhere near as good as you think you are in just 4 days especially as you said you are learning the bosses.

As a general tip, let someone else be the first to draw aggro so you get a good overload and burning speed off before everything decides you’re doing more damage and tries to murder you. The cyclone skill on war horn is good to CC and buy you time when you go back into air and glyph of elemental harmony is a great heal. If you’re taking too much damage back off and get some health back then go back in. If you have the fractal potions then you don’t need signet of fire for its precision buff, you can slot arcane shield or lightning flash to help you survive.

Staff is very good for some fractals, but offhand focus is also very good in some places like volcanic fractal.

It’s at least good for building up CA for druids though

SlayerSixx.5763:

From what I saw, the issue is that all these charr are too squishy + the abilities cost a ridiculous amount. I agree that the damage is nice (not sure if the damage can crit) but if it ever poses a threat and the enemy team is aware of it, it’ll get shot down very quickly.

On a side note, can you stealth these charr?

Welcome to core mesmer for the last 5 years. At least they aren’t target bound!

Jski.6180:

apharma.3741:

You’re completely missing what I’m saying. I’m saying core ele can keep up protection permanently, weaver finds this much harder as the moment you have swapped out of earth fully the protection has run out. Barrier in no way makes up for that.

D/D core ele is a better bruiser than this bruiser spec atm.

Swaping out of earth for core ele takes 7 sec before you can swap back into it. Weaver at worst needs to wait 7 sec too. Earth wait for cd water wait for cd earth wait for cd something else wait for cd earth. How is that diffrent. Atument cdr effects the goble cd of weaver swaps.

With core ele you get the advantage of swapping into earth and water but also go into fire and air and use their stronger attacks and buffs. On weaver the way you’re saying you’re just swapping between water and earth, your attacks will lack damage, you’ll miss out on swiftness.

At this point I feel you’re being deliberately silly if you cannot see how bad camping 2 elements is vs a full rotation through all elements utilising choice skills from each as needed.

Xillllix.3485:

Sunshine.5014:

Instead of asking for a removal of GCD (which will never happen), we should ask for a 2.5s GCD instead of 4s. Core Ele can rotate through all 4 attunements in 10s. Weaver doesn’t need to be an upgrade, it should just allow Ele to weave all the attunements in 10s.

There shouldn’t be a cooldown on attuning to the same element twice. This is really the biggest problem here.

I need to use burning retreat but I’m in earth/water: I should just have to double tap F1 and then press 4. Not just press F1 and be kittened for 4 seconds.

Sunshine makes a compelling argument for 2.5s as the time to go through all elements essentially remains the same but weaver means you can only access some of the skills now and the others later. In return you get more frequent access to the ones you need so if you need to hop into say water for a cleanse, you can more often.

Jski.6180:

apharma.3741:

Jski.6180:

apharma.3741:

MrAidenVoid.7416:

Zintrothen.1056:

I disagree that survivability would be better if we had more damage. Many professions can evade while attacking at the same time (Mirage is going to be a huge offender of this), so they can easily pressure you while avoid your burst during those 4 seconds.

I find the biggest issue is how barrier works, and this actually applies to Scourge too. Barrier starts to decay only a second after the last application. This makes so much of barrier going to waste and it’s not only annoying but reduces our potential defence. Anet needs to remember just how much damage there is in the game. If a Weaver/Scourge stacked up 10k barrier, that would be gone immediately even without the decay. Now, in addition to barrier also decaying way too quickly, you also don’t get nearly enough of it. If I went up against the Blue Lord in HotM and all 4 adds were wailing on me, I could literally spam my barrier defences and it wouldn’t be enough. But then if I wasted even once, a good chunk of it would decay, assuming that chunk isn’t immediately blasted through. This is a problem for Scourge too. They can also spam their barrier skills and not have enough defence, and they, from what I noticed, actually get more barrier than Weaver! However, unlike Weaver, Scourge can put out some monstrous damage and boon hate.

It would be fine if Barrier just didn’t decay while you are taking damage, but then barrier numbers themselves also need to go up a bit. With these simple changes, barrier should be plenty of defence for Weaver.

This isn’t what weaver was for though, weaver was based around bruiser dmg dealing not bunkering, if you want to bunker you have tempest which does a better job when barrier comes to earth traits dont expect weaver to be a tempest 2.0 give the DPS eles a viable elite spec please.

His point still stands though, you will take some hits from the lord and the adds even with careful positioning and avoiding the bigger damage. Barrier is meant to soften the blow or be an active defence for when you do get hit because being in melee range does make you more vulnerable, ask any melee war or rev this.

He isn’t asking to sit there and facetank hits while he simply auto attacks you dead, he’s asking that barrier at least absorb a hit every now and then. Right now it decays pretty fast without constant application and might float around 2k with plenty of dual skills and traiting for on dodge. 1 hit from any damage spec will destroy that barrier and it doesn’t even need to be a burst skill. The 4s attunement global cool down also hinders health regen via swapping to water as well as cleansing if water/arcane and defensive boons from arcane.

Right now D/D core ele is a much better bruiser than weaver, it can keep high protection uptime, good health regen via water swapping and has the AoE damage pressure against multiple opponents. Sword weaver has none of that, only thing going for it is having more evade frames.

You do understand you can take arcain line as a weaver? The arcain line even effects the swap for weaver by dropping its globe cd making it far better swap effect both in heals and protection uptime as well as having 2 added blast a short lasting water field and 2 more eviads.

Core ele with 50% boon duration has essentially 8.5s CD on attunement swap and 7.5s on protection for going into earth, it’s essentially permanent protection with regen from going into water. The main thing is that you can go into each of the elements every ~9-10s gaining the benefits of all arcane traits and synergy while gaining more from healing ripple and soothing mist as you gain them every 9-10s.

Weaver doesn’t have this with the 4s (3.5s with arcane) recharge and you get a lot less out of that. The dual skills and water field is nice but you need to have a blast ready for it which usually means earth->water before hand. Even revisiting the same elements (water/earth) for the defensive abilities/traits from arcane will need to be done every other swap to come even close to how core ele takes advantage of the arcane line.

As I say at the moment certainly in WvW core D/D ele is a lot better at being a bruiser than weaver is at all. Weaver has more evades but core ele makes up for it with shocking aura, burning speed, frozen burst and magnetic grasp. Frozen burst of which is a very low cool down blast.

Weaver is being advertised as a bruiser spec, I’m not asking for it to be strictly superior to D/D core but it should not be almost inferior in almost every way. At the moment weaver only has the superior evade up time but generally lacks the rest of the defences of core D/D.

Core ele dose not get any more boon duration the weaver. Weave gets every thing core ele gets it just has a goble cd on swaps but the swaps them self are on lower cd.

You’re completely missing what I’m saying. I’m saying core ele can keep up protection permanently, weaver finds this much harder as the moment you have swapped out of earth fully the protection has run out. Barrier in no way makes up for that.

D/D core ele is a better bruiser than this bruiser spec atm.

flog.3485:

Can’t we block, evade, reflect or LoS this skill ?

Yeah I believe the DE also has to be facing you and can’t turn while in sniper mode so you can just run behind them.

Reflect as far as I know works but you won’t reflect it back for a high amount as much of the damage comes from DE’s damage mods not the base damage of the ability and power.

Bella Kim.4061:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Barrier and Shroud probably shouldn’t be calculated as though they were blocks/dodges/evades simply because they can only take so much damage whereas other active defenses can mitigate an infinite amount. If anything, they should be calculated as healing.

I used this formula =

3000 Barrier = Evade Duration 1

3 Blocks = Evade Duration 1

50 Endurance = Evade Duration 0.75

1 Teleport or 1 Shadowstep = Evade Duration 0.5

(Stealth Duration 2 = Evade Duration 1 ) but I took out stealth from the list

Barrier is not equal to an evade, not at all, not even close. You get hit in a 3k barrier by a 15k gunflame it’s still going to take 12k health off you, evade it does 0 damage. You shouldn’t be factoring in barrier without protection and the calculations would get really weird at that point.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?

None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.

You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.

This very same thing happened with HoT betas.

Once again patience is the correct action at this time.

Are we also factoring all the things ANet changed and number tweaking that went on between the HoT betas and when HoT came out?

There were a lot of skills that got changed pretty drastically for many classes before HoT came out because they were weak.

I love the analogy of it flowing like a river of bricks, think that really summed it up perfectly.

Jski.6180:

apharma.3741:

MrAidenVoid.7416:

Zintrothen.1056:

I disagree that survivability would be better if we had more damage. Many professions can evade while attacking at the same time (Mirage is going to be a huge offender of this), so they can easily pressure you while avoid your burst during those 4 seconds.

I find the biggest issue is how barrier works, and this actually applies to Scourge too. Barrier starts to decay only a second after the last application. This makes so much of barrier going to waste and it’s not only annoying but reduces our potential defence. Anet needs to remember just how much damage there is in the game. If a Weaver/Scourge stacked up 10k barrier, that would be gone immediately even without the decay. Now, in addition to barrier also decaying way too quickly, you also don’t get nearly enough of it. If I went up against the Blue Lord in HotM and all 4 adds were wailing on me, I could literally spam my barrier defences and it wouldn’t be enough. But then if I wasted even once, a good chunk of it would decay, assuming that chunk isn’t immediately blasted through. This is a problem for Scourge too. They can also spam their barrier skills and not have enough defence, and they, from what I noticed, actually get more barrier than Weaver! However, unlike Weaver, Scourge can put out some monstrous damage and boon hate.

It would be fine if Barrier just didn’t decay while you are taking damage, but then barrier numbers themselves also need to go up a bit. With these simple changes, barrier should be plenty of defence for Weaver.

This isn’t what weaver was for though, weaver was based around bruiser dmg dealing not bunkering, if you want to bunker you have tempest which does a better job when barrier comes to earth traits dont expect weaver to be a tempest 2.0 give the DPS eles a viable elite spec please.

His point still stands though, you will take some hits from the lord and the adds even with careful positioning and avoiding the bigger damage. Barrier is meant to soften the blow or be an active defence for when you do get hit because being in melee range does make you more vulnerable, ask any melee war or rev this.

He isn’t asking to sit there and facetank hits while he simply auto attacks you dead, he’s asking that barrier at least absorb a hit every now and then. Right now it decays pretty fast without constant application and might float around 2k with plenty of dual skills and traiting for on dodge. 1 hit from any damage spec will destroy that barrier and it doesn’t even need to be a burst skill. The 4s attunement global cool down also hinders health regen via swapping to water as well as cleansing if water/arcane and defensive boons from arcane.

Right now D/D core ele is a much better bruiser than weaver, it can keep high protection uptime, good health regen via water swapping and has the AoE damage pressure against multiple opponents. Sword weaver has none of that, only thing going for it is having more evade frames.

You do understand you can take arcain line as a weaver? The arcain line even effects the swap for weaver by dropping its globe cd making it far better swap effect both in heals and protection uptime as well as having 2 added blast a short lasting water field and 2 more eviads.

Core ele with 50% boon duration has essentially 8.5s CD on attunement swap and 7.5s on protection for going into earth, it’s essentially permanent protection with regen from going into water. The main thing is that you can go into each of the elements every ~9-10s gaining the benefits of all arcane traits and synergy while gaining more from healing ripple and soothing mist as you gain them every 9-10s.

Weaver doesn’t have this with the 4s (3.5s with arcane) recharge and you get a lot less out of that. The dual skills and water field is nice but you need to have a blast ready for it which usually means earth→water before hand. Even revisiting the same elements (water/earth) for the defensive abilities/traits from arcane will need to be done every other swap to come even close to how core ele takes advantage of the arcane line.

As I say at the moment certainly in WvW core D/D ele is a lot better at being a bruiser than weaver is at all. Weaver has more evades but core ele makes up for it with shocking aura, burning speed, frozen burst and magnetic grasp. Frozen burst of which is a very low cool down blast.

Weaver is being advertised as a bruiser spec, I’m not asking for it to be strictly superior to D/D core but it should not be almost inferior in almost every way. At the moment weaver only has the superior evade up time but generally lacks the rest of the defences of core D/D.

MrAidenVoid.7416:

Zintrothen.1056:

I disagree that survivability would be better if we had more damage. Many professions can evade while attacking at the same time (Mirage is going to be a huge offender of this), so they can easily pressure you while avoid your burst during those 4 seconds.

I find the biggest issue is how barrier works, and this actually applies to Scourge too. Barrier starts to decay only a second after the last application. This makes so much of barrier going to waste and it’s not only annoying but reduces our potential defence. Anet needs to remember just how much damage there is in the game. If a Weaver/Scourge stacked up 10k barrier, that would be gone immediately even without the decay. Now, in addition to barrier also decaying way too quickly, you also don’t get nearly enough of it. If I went up against the Blue Lord in HotM and all 4 adds were wailing on me, I could literally spam my barrier defences and it wouldn’t be enough. But then if I wasted even once, a good chunk of it would decay, assuming that chunk isn’t immediately blasted through. This is a problem for Scourge too. They can also spam their barrier skills and not have enough defence, and they, from what I noticed, actually get more barrier than Weaver! However, unlike Weaver, Scourge can put out some monstrous damage and boon hate.

It would be fine if Barrier just didn’t decay while you are taking damage, but then barrier numbers themselves also need to go up a bit. With these simple changes, barrier should be plenty of defence for Weaver.

This isn’t what weaver was for though, weaver was based around bruiser dmg dealing not bunkering, if you want to bunker you have tempest which does a better job when barrier comes to earth traits dont expect weaver to be a tempest 2.0 give the DPS eles a viable elite spec please.

His point still stands though, you will take some hits from the lord and the adds even with careful positioning and avoiding the bigger damage. Barrier is meant to soften the blow or be an active defence for when you do get hit because being in melee range does make you more vulnerable, ask any melee war or rev this.

He isn’t asking to sit there and facetank hits while he simply auto attacks you dead, he’s asking that barrier at least absorb a hit every now and then. Right now it decays pretty fast without constant application and might float around 2k with plenty of dual skills and traiting for on dodge. 1 hit from any damage spec will destroy that barrier and it doesn’t even need to be a burst skill. The 4s attunement global cool down also hinders health regen via swapping to water as well as cleansing if water/arcane and defensive boons from arcane.

Right now D/D core ele is a much better bruiser than weaver, it can keep high protection uptime, good health regen via water swapping and has the AoE damage pressure against multiple opponents. Sword weaver has none of that, only thing going for it is having more evade frames.

Ulion.5476:

Sarrs.4831:

Supposedly it’ll only strip the conditions listed on the tooltip, which isn’t at all implied by the text.

If Unraveling Hexes text has typos and suppose to work that way, then its should not be a GM trait. GM are suppose to be very powerful not mediocre. Also elemental pursuit one of the first traits enables you to ignore movement impediments.

Not entirely, it gives you super speed whenever you inflict a debilitating condition on your foes. Presumably it means chill, cripple and immobilise as it’s listed on the trait. Though it does essentially counter the first 2, it does jack all vs immob.

Basically I think sword needs cast times tightening on the autos, attunement swap going down to 3s, 2.5s with arcane and a bit of tweaking on the stances/barriers. Some of those stance recharges are very high for their effect, especially aquatic stance which left my bar immediately for GoEH.

Zintrothen.1056:

Phantaram seemed to be having no real trouble surviving with current barrier numbers, even against Spellbreakers. Mainly the reason he ever struggled against any spec was because they’re OP. Scourge, Spellbreaker and Holosmith all deal absolutely insane damage. On the other hand, even low damage specs can still punch through the higher numbers of barrier.

I had suggested yesterday that barrier shouldn’t decay as long as you are taking damage, but another suggestion instead is to increase the decay timer. Both mechanics together might be OP, but something needs to change anyway because barrier just doesn’t provide any real defence.

Well that’s because he tries not to get hit in the first place and tbh he’s on a level that few others in NA are on too. I remember seeing him playing marauder Sc/F fresh air in solo queue, not because it’s viable in the meta but because he and many from the abjured are on another level to the plebeians he faces most of the time.

The barrier needs buffing or access to protection needs to increase. I think the barrier numbers might not need tweaking too much if attunement swap was 3s global, 2.5s with arcane. I say this as you’d have protection up a lot more further reducing damage that barrier takes…I think, it’s hard to tell how it all works.

A nice bit of Stilton with some whole meal crackers, life doesn’t get better than that…well not while staying pegi 12.

Stacwad.8250:

Every single new elite spec discussion thread is just full of people complaining. Neckbeards will never be satisfied

There’s a difference between complaining for the sake of it and complaining because something is categorically worse in every way than what we already have.

Take aquatic stance, it is categorically worse than every other heal an ele has access to, except maybe arcane brilliance if it hits nothing and is combo’d with nothing. The sword auto attacks chain is the longest in the entire game as they take 2s in total cast times and that’s not counting the aftercasts which would bump it to nearly 3s to do a full chain.

But yeah call everyone complaining a neck beard, was only 5 months ago you picked up GW2 again and were what many would consider trash.

I mean I’d be willing to accept weaver as is if this was the power level of everything in PoF beta, but it isn’t. Deadeyes, soul beasts, holosmiths and spell breakers are destroying people in seconds. Don’t even get me started on the sheer corrupts and conditions flying out of scourge.

Axl.8924:

apharma.3741:

Barrier
At the moment this is a very bad joke for sword. An 800 barrier will do sweet kittenainst melee classes and the damage mitigation it provides might as well not be there. For comparison a warrior can auto attack for 2,500 and do other hits for 5,000 and upto 10,000. An 800 barrier reduces that damage by 33% for the 2,500 but scales considerably worse to being not worth mentioning at higher levels while protection will always cut that damage by 33%. At the moment because of the attunement swap cool down protection is quite difficult to maintain in weaver without going into earth every 3rd attunement and that’s with 80% boon duration.

Simply put the damage mitigation on weaver is shameful for a spec that has a 170 range weapon as its showpiece.

Thats actually not true.If you use earthen elemental barrier plus the earth elemental attack and double dodge you get up to 8k barrier.

So you’re basically saying it’s currently fine if you burn all your dodges and 2 other skills (Do you mean stone resonance, the lava skin dual skill or what?) to get 8k temporary hit points that will disappear in 6s or so?

On whatever cool downs “earthen elemental barrier” is on and with an elite that is generally inferior to the frankly ludicrous heal of the ice elemental. That’s putting aside that you also need to dedicate a GM trait to barrier too.

I honestly don’t think the barriers on weaver are that good, maybe I don’t fully understand barrier as it’s new, if it reduced damage taken onto the barrier or scales with toughness, protection or whatever then maybe it’s better than it appears.

Genesis.5169:

Sao.7146:

Sword Air do not have any condition and should scale like a power weapon. Dagger fire do have a tons of conditions too, it do not matter.

It does because if sword was superior to dagger in every way dagger would easily fall out of viability, and i here plenty of people here complaining about must have specs and builds alot so why are you guys suddenly advocating for it now?

Sword attacks are mostly 170 range, dagger range is minimum 300, with air auto seemingly to hit way beyond that too. The sword also doesn’t apply the conditions till the 3rd strike for fire and applies no conditions on air or water. The earth auto is 4,4,8s of bleed while dagger earth auto is 10s of bleed on every attack and has about the same cast time as 2nd and 3rd part of earth auto.

Make no mistake, sword is not a condition weapon any more than dagger is, in fact I think dagger actually completely eclipses swords ability to apply conditions with the exception of the dual skills which favour sword only because most fire and earth combos have burn or bleed. Though as mentioned the swords range is also half that of dagger so when we take into account how much easier it is to miss I’d say dagger is slightly better.

Either way it doesn’t justify how much less damage sword auto does, the best thing for them to do in my opinion is make each part of the chain 1/2s instead of mostly being 3/4s casts. That should even out the damage without going overboard.

Rodzynald.5897:

Not to be rude but this sounds like a l2p issue right’ere.
Since I went into hotjoin and unranked, nothing but holos, mirages, spellbreakers, deadeyes all over the place. Mirage’s condition application while staying relatively safe from taking damage is strong, very strong, its a straight up mesmer on steroids 24/7
Maybe you should play some more, because I don’t agree with most of those statements.

While I do think the OP has a lot to learn and will not be playing very well on it, the whole concept of mirage works on clone retention, however they will die to an auto attack or two in PvP.

It also doesn’t detract from the other points raised about jaunt being plagued with pathing issues, the mirror mechanic being clumsy and barely useful and the detargeting aspect not working particularly well.

I think there’s going to be a large L2P issue with people against mirages as all you have to do is cleave out clones and mirage is completely useless.