Guild Wars 2

At least come up with a theory, it doesn’t even have to make any sense, like there was a red moon earlier this year and they are still blessed by that.

The standards of paranoia and lunacy on this forum is really slipping.

BandwaGate is open? Ahmagerd!11

Abelisk.4527:

Something’s really off here.

On average, I get 30-50k damage a game with Ventari revenant. Very low damage.

But with meta ele, I get an average of 225k damage. With mender D/D Strength however I average 300k in a good match.

As an ele you should be in at least 2v2s and higher so you always have 2 targets you will be hitting. If we round down to 1k DPS as the number is much nicer to deal with we will get 2k damage done per second of the match as the total damage just records all outgoing damage that hit.

To get 225k you would only have to be hitting 2 targets at that DPS for 110s, we can just call that 2 minutes. Even assuming down time in combat, map rotations and that you won’t actually be doing that much dps this shouldn’t be outside the realms of possibility, especially when fights become vs 3-5 opponents.

I agree with Jayne, take my upvote and enjoy not logging into WvW.

I actually really like the new ones, they look like much higher quality work, the only issue is some are much harder to read than others. A little bit more colour and putting things like the chill rings going halfway up the bubble would help. Shocking aura and chaos aura need a bit more to help the readability too.

Choppy.4183:

apharma.3741:

Zintrothen.1056:

zectra.6978:

[…] but mesmer is one of the classes that is -fine- right now.

You cannot be serious… The profession that can unleash non stop condi bombs and then stealth when something goes wrong is fine?

Considering the OP was saying he died in 1s it’s more likely the mesmer was power and power mes isn’t that strong in roaming.

I can’t say I know the truth of it, but a guy in my guild who flips between about half the professions refuses to play his mesmer these days because he thinks it’s obscenely powerful. He never runs condi on any build, and his mesmer is bursty as hell.

I’m not sure why he thinks so because, honestly, I don’t find power mesmers to be that bad unless in the hands of a very skilled player, but that’s not a balance issue. Condi mesmers might be a different story, but it’s been worse before.

In terms of the OP’s post, for sure they could be burst down in a second through a standard opening burst if they were clustered together and didn’t know to dodge.

It really depends on the build tbh. You can play the old PU dom, illu, chaos line with PU and torch and run around instagibing squishy players or anyone without auto procs, try again after going into stealth if your burst doesn’t kill then run if 2nd burst doesn’t kill. Course you run from all condi and it it’s leaning very much to the cheese side.

You can run the more common in EU chrono build which is identical to the condi variant but power gear, GS instead of staff and might on shatter instead of torment. Much less cheesy and more staying power in fights but won’t 100-0 anything that isn’t full zerk.

Incidentally today I left a thief at one of my sentries as I thought he was low rank and just after a daily, so I went to the sentry south of air keep to flip it. As the circle comes up along comes the thief precasting basi venom, uses black powder and dodge the obvious steal. Gravity well, CS right at end, mirrorblade and mindwrack, repeat and he runs. I chase and kill, he was a terrible thief, probably a PvE player or new to WvW.

I let these people go usually unless they attack, if you attack or look like a threat I will not hold back and I hold no remorse over it.

Zintrothen.1056:

zectra.6978:

[…] but mesmer is one of the classes that is -fine- right now.

You cannot be serious… The profession that can unleash non stop condi bombs and then stealth when something goes wrong is fine?

Considering the OP was saying he died in 1s it’s more likely the mesmer was power and power mes isn’t that strong in roaming.

Just so you know OP, you can change your build while in WvW and it stays that way only in WvW. Sort of like a build template feature without actually being a build template. You’d still need to switch gear but your utility skills and traits will change to the more PvP focused build you make.

As for the mesmer thing, power mes isn’t very good Vs DH unless it’s full zerk DH which they can 1 shot. Most run marauder gear so can’t be 1 shot and the traps with high amounts of blocks and sustain make taking one on a big risk.

Don’t blame the enemy or the class for your own failings if you are the counter to them.

Prysin.8542:

apharma.3741:

Prysin.8542:

Kir Sakar.3647:

Prysin.8542:

That being said, how would you, “outsiders” view SFR today? Obviously i know some of the things going on, but sometimes getting other’s perspective can be very helpful.

I am on SFR’s current linked server and enjoy playing there very much, no idea why you would like to “jump ship”… I mainly play off-peak hours and it has a lot of organized small group activity outside of closed guilds. Community and commanders very friendly and helpful to newer players like me. I actually hate the fact that we probably be relinked in 6 weeks. Q_Q

You seem to like server-hopping though, I can surely recommend a low-population server like Blacktide to get around easily. Every 8 weeks a new host server for you without paying any transfer fees.

I only hop servers if the community is bad or the coverage is dieing. I left FSP when it was just about to implode. I left Deso when it had imploded, i left Crystal desert cuz it sucked, i left tarnished coast cuz someone paid to move me back to deso. Then i moved to SFR because it had the highest coverage and seemed like a very stable server.

Then you will be hopping a lot. I’m on a linked server and from my perspective all communities are pretty much the same, we’ve been with SFR, FSP, Gankdara and now with Piken. I’d say Piken is currently the best if only because chat doesn’t seem to be filled with memes and moronic drivel like on Gankdara but really most servers have issues with pug commanders now.

They all have some during prime time, then maybe one burning the midnight oil a little then it tapers off, can’t speak for morning/daytime as I work that time.

If you don’t mind Mighty Teapot he is gathering a pita pug blob 3-4 days of the week on underworld with a regular schedule. You can join him for large scale or run a small group in support or to be a pita in other areas of the map.

Why not transfer to a link server though? You get a roll of the dice of different tiers every 2 months as well as experiencing the different communities and how welcoming they are/aren’t. Besides you’d actually be helping the communities to grow that need help rather than adding onto already bloated communities.

You bring up some interesting and valid points. But i’d rather not drop down to the lower tiers. Sub T4 i feel like there is too much of a “wild card”… I recognize that you will get more activity then in the past, pre linking period, but being tied with a toxic community for a couple of months would be the death of my enthusiasm for this game.

I think i am getting some good insight, i’d love more feedback as i and a few of my friends are getting closer to the decision of where to move.

Well, the most toxic servers in EU are probably GH and Gankdara from my experience. FSP wasn’t bad when we were linked but that was at the start of linking and bandwagon probably pulled in a lot of toxicity too.

Honestly I’d say go Piken, they’re as good as any other and the MM guild I knew from GH moved there and they’re a very friendly bunch.

Prysin.8542:

Kir Sakar.3647:

Prysin.8542:

That being said, how would you, “outsiders” view SFR today? Obviously i know some of the things going on, but sometimes getting other’s perspective can be very helpful.

I am on SFR’s current linked server and enjoy playing there very much, no idea why you would like to “jump ship”… I mainly play off-peak hours and it has a lot of organized small group activity outside of closed guilds. Community and commanders very friendly and helpful to newer players like me. I actually hate the fact that we probably be relinked in 6 weeks. Q_Q

You seem to like server-hopping though, I can surely recommend a low-population server like Blacktide to get around easily. Every 8 weeks a new host server for you without paying any transfer fees.

I only hop servers if the community is bad or the coverage is dieing. I left FSP when it was just about to implode. I left Deso when it had imploded, i left Crystal desert cuz it sucked, i left tarnished coast cuz someone paid to move me back to deso. Then i moved to SFR because it had the highest coverage and seemed like a very stable server.

Then you will be hopping a lot. I’m on a linked server and from my perspective all communities are pretty much the same, we’ve been with SFR, FSP, Gankdara and now with Piken. I’d say Piken is currently the best if only because chat doesn’t seem to be filled with memes and moronic drivel like on Gankdara but really most servers have issues with pug commanders now.

They all have some during prime time, then maybe one burning the midnight oil a little then it tapers off, can’t speak for morning/daytime as I work that time.

If you don’t mind Mighty Teapot he is gathering a pita pug blob 3-4 days of the week on underworld with a regular schedule. You can join him for large scale or run a small group in support or to be a pita in other areas of the map.

Why not transfer to a link server though? You get a roll of the dice of different tiers every 2 months as well as experiencing the different communities and how welcoming they are/aren’t. Besides you’d actually be helping the communities to grow that need help rather than adding onto already bloated communities.

Distance is nothing without style

EcoRI.9273:

apharma.3741:

Yes, well done, you found that absolute niche place where it offered the fastest clear time with some of the best players in the game using a strategy most pug groups would never do.

In other words a situation so completely detached from the thread it might as well have it’s own zip code.

You can run minstrels, skip the extra healer and 9 man a boss which isn’t completely outside the realms of pug groups. Even skipping a 2nd PS warrior if you have eles which can fill in the gaps on might without losing much damage. However in the context of this thread and most raid groups they will not run minstrels and it won’t be the best for most bosses or most groups.

Would you like me to add a disclaimer to my statement saying it is a broad generalisation across all raid wings and that these niche builds may in fact offer the quickest clear time in extremely organised groups doing unconventional tactics?

Wait I thought this was the whole point of the thread. You don’t bring meta builds aka cookie cutter builds to pugs. Just because it is “optimal” doesn’t mean it is optimal for your group. Read my reason 3. You have to adapt your build based on the players you have in your group and use the DPS meter to justify a so called bad build(your minstrels example).

There’s a difference between bad build and non meta alternative though.

Minstrels chrono is a non meta alternative, it carries hard as well as being very forgiving giving you other options should you be down a role, it also accomplishes it’s role without being that big a loss to the team. This isn’t quite the same as running a bad build which you described as a PP thief doing twice the DPS of other players because they were dead half the boss fight. Your example isn’t a comp issue, it’s a skill issue most likely especially as you are talking about fractals which aren’t too difficult outside the few annoying instabilities.

This isn’t the same as say a warrior switching signet of might for FGJ because they notice might or fury uptime is a little low or a similar situation.

ButterPeanut.9746:

Pretty much.

This thread is covered with examples of where this build is useful, and you are right, most of the time it falls under the following categories:
- Low man
- Make up for mistakes of others
- Progression raids while learning

That being said, if I personally were to use such strong language as “The only time you would run minstrel chrono is when you have to low man or if you have to carry some bad players”, I would make sure to include a disclaimer about the fastest kill on the most refined boss in the game (aka the first)

It probably is a bit unfair of me to call you out on something this small, but its what it represents. The raid sub-forumn has be COVERED with people speaking in false absolutes over the past year+. “My class can never raid”, “I’m always excluded”, “Make raids available for me specifically”, etc. As an avid reader of this forumn, it becomes very frustrating to constantly read these absolute statements that are just plain wrong.

Just a little unfair given I was originally replying to a guy saying that minstrel chrono, magi druid and healing tempest aren’t meta for try yards but still widely accepted builds that carry hard. Had a Matthias group earlier where I stat swapped to heal ele as I knew it would get us the kill first time as opposed to multiple wipes due to the healers not being as experienced with how demanding it can be sometimes.

ButterPeanut.9746:

apharma.3741:

ButterPeanut.9746:

apharma.3741:

The only time you would run minstrel chrono is when you have to low man or if you have to carry some bad players.

I"ll just leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bB99ndl0to

Too bad in the comments when asked what he runs Deathly says the following: “(had concentration and accuracy cuz I don’t recommend using this build anywhere). The reason I ran it in this video is to allow druids to focus on buffing gotl and dps rather then healing the tank and to keep VG in place wich means I also had to jump blues(extra damage) and not dodge.”

Nice try but it’s still a niche build that they wouldn’t usually run. I am by no means saying the builds are bad just that they provide a higher carrying potential at a loss of some or a lot of damage in some cases.

“The only time you would run minstrel chrono is when you have to low man or if you have to carry some bad player”

This video is the fastest 10 man kill of this boss to date by the best players. Deathly’s reason for why it was run (aka increase druid DPS based on build, and to keep boss stationary) is irrelevant. If they had a better option, they would have used it. This is one example of where your statement is completely false.

We can see based on the video that they used 10 players, so I guess you are arguing that Deathly is carrying all of those bad players.

I never said it wasn’t niche, I simply provided an example of where it is used by the best of the best that is not a lowman scenario.

Yes, well done, you found that absolute niche place where it offered the fastest clear time with some of the best players in the game using a strategy most pug groups would never do.

In other words a situation so completely detached from the thread it might as well have it’s own zip code.

You can run minstrels, skip the extra healer and 9 man a boss which isn’t completely outside the realms of pug groups. Even skipping a 2nd PS warrior if you have eles which can fill in the gaps on might without losing much damage. However in the context of this thread and most raid groups they will not run minstrels and it won’t be the best for most bosses or most groups.

Would you like me to add a disclaimer to my statement saying it is a broad generalisation across all raid wings and that these niche builds may in fact offer the quickest clear time in extremely organised groups doing unconventional tactics?

Cynz.9437:

Entenkommando.5208:

What’s wrong about spear? There are much worse underwater specs. Ranger for example.

As OP said, the spear allows guards to pull enemies into terrain (i could post screenshots once i get home) thus forcing them being stuck there (the only solution is to hope that someone kills you with aoe or you relog). The spear also launches enemies high in the air sometimes on uneven terrain (especially around side points and at the edge of the mid point in Foefire) so they instantly die to fall damage. It is obviously bugs that has been reported since HoT launch…. hence why i said, OP is talking to the wall.

I think you missed the joke (I hope he was joking) guardians have the underwater weapon spear.

@topic, I think the spear was put in a much better place when it got a ¾s cast time allowing it to be dodged much easier. The reveal on tether is most likely the result of a game wide change making tethers reveal enemies, most likely to help core necro vs stealth and maybe future elite specs that might have tethers.

While I don’t think DH needed to get the reveal vs thieves and mesmers it helps to keep things consistent for both sides.

Swamurabi.7890:

apharma.3741:

Yeah ANet has really made a lot of good changes to the map, hay bales are another really good addition that lets you get down off the cliffs easier. The new launch pads for getting around the shrines are great, the changes to earth keep removing many of the outer barriers and AoE cripple was good.

The only 2 things I can really complain about desert Borderlands now is:
1. The towers/keeps are too spread out offering not a lot of strategy to having them.
2. It is far too big a map so even with large numbers of players it still feels a little too empty.

.

The third and biggest issue with DBL is that it doesn’t lend itself to zerg vs zerg encounters. It’s even worse when ZvZ happens at the lord’s room.

DBL is great for roamers, havoc, ktrain but not open field ZvZ fights because there’s so little open spaces for most of the map, especially around the keeps.

This isn’t always a bad thing, I mean if you want to fight as a big group vs another big group there’s a guild arena or OS for that. There’s also massive amounts of open space on DBL so the only reason I can see for this to be an issue is if your group goes to a tower and attacks it then waits for the enemy zerg to come and fights them outside.

I personally think terrain awareness is a vital and crucial part to strategy and so my personal opinion is it’s a BS excuse and why I didn’t include it in the list of my complaints.

Maybe you should try FSP on EU, they’re pretty stacked and I hear a lot of good things about them. If they are full Gankdara and Desk are worth a look last I heard in that order.

You’ve tried NA, try EU. If you don’t like it most stacked NA servers are always looking to buy EU players to plug gaps in coverage and will pay your transfer cost back.

Sublimatio.6981:

if she is in the middle she is too far. you should be eping the adds anyway to increase dps on xera. unless you go with the clown fiesta strat and chrono is running around and you need to clear shards.

Clown fiesta best fiesta!

While you’re about, has epi seen any interesting better uses or has it been a nerf overall?

Svarty.8019:

Chinchilla.1785:

My issue is that people want to outright delete said tactics instead of adding opportunities to “outplay” those that employ the above. Because it’s easy to nerf, I guess? Adding stuff means it comes down to map design, and balance. Something that I hardly trust a divided community to agree on the details.

Do you have any ideas for outplaying a stacked up blob with a few people?

I’ve already commended the idea of a powerful Lord who can even up a fight (like we have at Air and Fire keeps atm). Perhaps a shorter tether so the room can be bombed more effectively, too.

If we’re judging whether anything will change … well, I guess it’s easier to do nothing – and that is exactly what everybody has come to expect.

I think the lord room design of garrison and green keep in EB was the best for helping a smaller but smarter group keep or delay it. You could build 3 super ACs on top of the lord’s room and cause a blob to die if they don’t notice as well as having only 1 way up (bonus points for having a ram to fear them off on the chokes) so you can force them into disadvantageous fights. Garri also has the 2nd level of walkway around the lord’s room allowing ranged classes to fire in a location less vulnerable to melee and roaming classes with teleports more freedom of movement.

To be honest I think garrison is one of if not the best designed keep in the game, very vulnerable if no-one is there but if properly sieged with a few defenders who aren’t morons might as well be called doom fortress 1337.

ButterPeanut.9746:

apharma.3741:

The only time you would run minstrel chrono is when you have to low man or if you have to carry some bad players.

I"ll just leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bB99ndl0to

Too bad in the comments when asked what he runs Deathly says the following: “(had concentration and accuracy cuz I don’t recommend using this build anywhere). The reason I ran it in this video is to allow druids to focus on buffing gotl and dps rather then healing the tank and to keep VG in place wich means I also had to jump blues(extra damage) and not dodge.”

Nice try but it’s still a niche build that they wouldn’t usually run. I am by no means saying the builds are bad just that they provide a higher carrying potential at a loss of some or a lot of damage in some cases.

Entenkommando.5208:

Cynz.9437:

About any teleport (e.g. mes is affected as well) counts as double, it is not exactly intended but yeah…. as far as DH goes, the main issue was always class stacking not DH itself. 1 Dh was never issue, multiple were due to their synergy with each other ( shared blocks, heals, stab, traps everywhere).

Does this actually happen with mesmers? I mean it’s intended with thief because their skills are shadowsteps, but mesmer only has teleports so this shouldn’t happen.

Yes mesmer also has this issue so you have to be careful with sword 3 flip over, phase retreat and blink. They also have another issue that the traps will generally kill clones and phantasms as they run in to shatter, the exceptions being illusionary defender and avenger as they have 16k+ health for some weird reason.

This makes fighting a DH with trap heal frustrating sometimes as you can end up triggering it if you want to burst so you have to burst, then stay ranged and auto with either staff in condi or GS in power if they won’t leave the heal trap. This is why I don’t like illusionary reversion/chronophantasma on power builds in WvW as the berserker will respawn triggering traps or respawn and let other classes proc other effects off them.

Yeah ANet has really made a lot of good changes to the map, hay bales are another really good addition that lets you get down off the cliffs easier. The new launch pads for getting around the shrines are great, the changes to earth keep removing many of the outer barriers and AoE cripple was good.

The only 2 things I can really complain about desert Borderlands now is:
1. The towers/keeps are too spread out offering not a lot of strategy to having them.
2. It is far too big a map so even with large numbers of players it still feels a little too empty.

If they could reduce the height and width by 15-25% and make towers more of a stepping stone to the keep so an enemy force having a tower is a threat again then it would be better than alpine imo.

messiah.1908:

apharma.3741:

Crinn.7864:

Highlie.7641:

This is what happens when you give professions way to much stability, They don’t even realize how much CC there is now.

“how often do you get immobed, dash away and instantly get immobed again?”
Every Time you Engage an opponent, What kind of players do you fight? even in bronze tier NA they know enough to stack CC. It’s like you don’t even play this game.

Stability doesn’t even effect immobilizes though, stability access is completely irrelevant when tolking about immobs.

Also few builds can apply immob twice.
Warrior – has no immobs
Guard – has one on scepter, zero otherwise
Power rev – none
Condi rev -none
Ranger – 2-3 depending on build
Thief – 1 if traited, a spammable one if and only if they have mainhand pistol
Scrapper – none
Necro – none
Ele – none
Mesmer – none.

Actually ele has one on earth 3 (12s CD) and mesmer sword 3 if the clone lives long enough to switch is an immob, both meta builds because I feel it’s poor form to discuss very rare or extremely niche weapons. Still your point does stand that there is hardly a mass of immobilise at the moment, it could have a lot removed from dash and it would still be exceptional.

As I said earlier, think how much you could remove from all elite specs before they might not be chosen over a core trait line. Some elite specs are slowly getting to that point within different roles but some are simply far too strong or missed the mark on what they were trying to accomplish, daredevil being in the latter category.

Edit: @Messiah, I think he was mostly just pointing out on meta/viable builds. There is much more immob in the game if you really list them all but many have a much higher cost to slotting than is realistic to use.

Also I forgot aftershock and overload earth (though you’d have to be blind to get hit by the overload).

the only immobilize i hate is from the ranger trait as it ticks 1 sec 5 times. so sometimes i cleanse and boom immoiblize again

Yes, that can die in every fire in every hell.

Crinn.7864:

Highlie.7641:

This is what happens when you give professions way to much stability, They don’t even realize how much CC there is now.

“how often do you get immobed, dash away and instantly get immobed again?”
Every Time you Engage an opponent, What kind of players do you fight? even in bronze tier NA they know enough to stack CC. It’s like you don’t even play this game.

Stability doesn’t even effect immobilizes though, stability access is completely irrelevant when tolking about immobs.

Also few builds can apply immob twice.
Warrior – has no immobs
Guard – has one on scepter, zero otherwise
Power rev – none
Condi rev -none
Ranger – 2-3 depending on build
Thief – 1 if traited, a spammable one if and only if they have mainhand pistol
Scrapper – none
Necro – none
Ele – none
Mesmer – none.

Actually ele has one on earth 3 (12s CD) and mesmer sword 3 if the clone lives long enough to switch is an immob, both meta builds because I feel it’s poor form to discuss very rare or extremely niche weapons. Still your point does stand that there is hardly a mass of immobilise at the moment, it could have a lot removed from dash and it would still be exceptional.

As I said earlier, think how much you could remove from all elite specs before they might not be chosen over a core trait line. Some elite specs are slowly getting to that point within different roles but some are simply far too strong or missed the mark on what they were trying to accomplish, daredevil being in the latter category.

Edit: @Messiah, I think he was mostly just pointing out on meta/viable builds. There is much more immob in the game if you really list them all but many have a much higher cost to slotting than is realistic to use.

Also I forgot aftershock and overload earth (though you’d have to be blind to get hit by the overload).

Curunen.8729:

apharma.3741:

Curunen.8729:

OriOri.8724:

I hope we don’t get another stealth utility. In every game that has had it, stealth has annoyed me because its never balanced. Its either worthless crap, or its overpowered as kitten. GW2 leans heavily towards the later, even though recently they have been trying to scale that back.

I’d also rather not have excessive stealth, but thematically deception, blurring and stealth fit the theme of a mirage.

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

I agree, I think stealth in the entire game needs clipping down substantially. I’d rather mesmer did more clone swapping, something you actually imagine a mesmer or fighting a mesmer to be like. Where you CC and hit with a burst attack only for it to splinter as it was an illusion that the mesmer switched places with.

I’d like to see some moving around of skill types between specialisations – for example things like Time Warp ought to be Chrono exclusive, things like Veil Mirage exclusive, and things like swapping positions with illusions base mesmer specific.

Just an example but I’d rather those core features of mesmer be actual core features of base mesmer so Mirage isn’t used as another band aid for stuff we don’t have but should have, just like Chrono was.

I think the last balance patch in some ways gave a lot of people hope that Arena Net is open to the possibility of simply redesigning skills and aspects of classes that don’t fit or cause a lot of problems. While I agree time warp is a lot more thematic with chrono I doubt that they will switch a core skill with an elite spec skill.

Maybe in time (no pun intended) when we get more elite specs and Arena Net has the opportunity to really get a handle on what an elite spec does, how and it’s theme we might see big overhauls to classes to better align skills.

Curunen.8729:

OriOri.8724:

I hope we don’t get another stealth utility. In every game that has had it, stealth has annoyed me because its never balanced. Its either worthless crap, or its overpowered as kitten. GW2 leans heavily towards the later, even though recently they have been trying to scale that back.

I’d also rather not have excessive stealth, but thematically deception, blurring and stealth fit the theme of a mirage.

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

I agree, I think stealth in the entire game needs clipping down substantially. I’d rather mesmer did more clone swapping, something you actually imagine a mesmer or fighting a mesmer to be like. Where you CC and hit with a burst attack only for it to splinter as it was an illusion that the mesmer switched places with.

FrostDraco.8306:

apharma.3741:

FrostDraco.8306:

Henry.5713:

Kind of depends on the context we are talking about. There are meta builds and there are meta builds. There are none meta build and there are none meta builds.
Let’s compare two low damage none meta builds with eachother:
How about Magi druid and a PVT Bearbow ranger? Both aren’t meta, one is vastly superior in Fractals, however.
You always take a alive mid to low tier damage dealer over a dead top damage dealer. But you also take an alive top damage dealer over an alive mid tier or low tier damage dealer.

Do what you have to. All though, you should always go for supportive builds over defensive ones. It is far more efficient to make a druid play Magi, a mesmer play Minstrel or a tempest swap to a healling build and have everyone else play full DPS meta than having multiple people run ranged or much more (selfish) defensive builds.
One good healer or support can keep up four damage dealers. You much rather sacrafice 10-20k DPS on one person than 5-15k on multiple people.

Pugs will be pugs. If there is no other choice than to play a tanky build, be the last person alive and solo a boss for half an hour then do so. Just don’t assume this build is anything but useless in most casses.

Um excuse me? Magi druid, healing tempest, and minstrel chrono are all meta builds, just not for dps. What are you smoking?

They aren’t meta for the try hard groups. Try hard groups run viper druids for more DPS, chronos that get just enough boon duration for 100% quickness otherwise all zerk and making use of shatters and blurred frenzy for more DPS etc.

They are however widely accepted builds that carry hard if you do not have a top 0.1% of the player base group or someone who messes up a little or in some cases a lot.

Um dude, yes, they are. The whole reason minstrel chrono even became a thing was because of its use in a speedrun tournament, in which most if not all of the ‘top’ guilds used it.

Do you even watch how builds get used? All of these things are builds that were used for a specific thing. Even healing ele is used by ‘top’ guilds to kite flak on deimos. Dude you are sorely mistaken.

You mean the speedrun tournament that forced them to low man all bosses? You know they ran them because it condensed roles right? Not because they would run them if they had a full 10 man group on every boss.

Heal ele is used in exactly 1 boss, which rev is actually better but who are we to poke holes in your knowledge. It is you who do not understand when and more importantly why these builds are used.

The only time you would run minstrel chrono is when you have to low man or if you have to carry some bad players. The same is said of heal ele outside of it’s single niche role on exactly 1 boss. I mean what you are trying to make out is like saying DPS mesmer is totally a thing even though everything outperforms it on all but 2 or 3 bosses, they are niche builds that are useful in niche cases, not something you would usually run on every boss with a full raid group.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

And my point is that if defence is made to be too effective, you’ll have servers that will never leave their objectives even when they have equal or greater numbers. Why risk getting killed when you can sit inside perfectly safe.

The counter to this (assuming we are talking about roughly equal numbers) is to send 5 guys to go cap something they don’t have defenders at while they sit in the tower. This forces the enemy to either attack you to wipe you and move on, split up allowing you to kill the ones that split or lose an objective.

If the numbers aren’t even then someone is already making a massive mistake. If defenders group is bigger then the aggressor side either has an easier time elsewhere or if outnumbered has the advantage locking them there stopping them karma training. If the aggressor group is bigger then they are misplaying by blobbing and should be punished harshly for it. Removing PvD means that if the aggressor wants it in the latter scenario they cannot simply brute force their way in when they misplay.

Jyrio.4637:

Well it got nerfed a little and is still the highest dps build in pve… ele holds the topspot for pve dmg since launch.. i dont know what u complain about.. also it is so incredibly easy to play that just any1 can pull off 40k dps with the right buffs against large hitboxes.. (salty engi main talking)

Yep, a lot of people disappointed the rotation is essentially signet of fire, wildfire/flamestrike and burning speed off cool down and get in overload fire and drakes breath whenever the opportunity arises.

But hey, at least it literally offers absolutely nothing but damage and some might/fury from overload fire and blasting a fire field with arcane brilliance. Well I guess you can switch elements and tank your DPS for 10s..

The question you should all be asking when looking at an elite spec is “how much can I remove and this will still be picked most of the time?”

The fact is you could reduce or even remove the damage on bound, remove the cleanses on dash and reduce the duration/number of conditions on impaling lotus and the trait line and all of them would be equally picked. I do think the buffs like+/- damage need to be 6s though as it’s often quite a short duration and doesn’t stack.

Before some of you thieves start foaming at the mouth, this is something that should be applied to all elite specs. Some are getting there but others are wildly overtuned.

FrostDraco.8306:

Henry.5713:

Kind of depends on the context we are talking about. There are meta builds and there are meta builds. There are none meta build and there are none meta builds.
Let’s compare two low damage none meta builds with eachother:
How about Magi druid and a PVT Bearbow ranger? Both aren’t meta, one is vastly superior in Fractals, however.
You always take a alive mid to low tier damage dealer over a dead top damage dealer. But you also take an alive top damage dealer over an alive mid tier or low tier damage dealer.

Do what you have to. All though, you should always go for supportive builds over defensive ones. It is far more efficient to make a druid play Magi, a mesmer play Minstrel or a tempest swap to a healling build and have everyone else play full DPS meta than having multiple people run ranged or much more (selfish) defensive builds.
One good healer or support can keep up four damage dealers. You much rather sacrafice 10-20k DPS on one person than 5-15k on multiple people.

Pugs will be pugs. If there is no other choice than to play a tanky build, be the last person alive and solo a boss for half an hour then do so. Just don’t assume this build is anything but useless in most casses.

Um excuse me? Magi druid, healing tempest, and minstrel chrono are all meta builds, just not for dps. What are you smoking?

They aren’t meta for the try hard groups. Try hard groups run viper druids for more DPS, chronos that get just enough boon duration for 100% quickness otherwise all zerk and making use of shatters and blurred frenzy for more DPS etc.

They are however widely accepted builds that carry hard if you do not have a top 0.1% of the player base group or someone who messes up a little or in some cases a lot.

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

Mesmer has been a staple in the meta in every game mode since HoT released.

Mesmer has been a requirement not useful.

lol

I guess we have a different idea of usefulness.

If you are satisfied spamming quickness in PvE fighting cron scripts, that’s on you.

It’s PvE so what. We’re more important than the DPS guys.

Maybe you should realize that mesmer can’t be both support and best DPS

More important than the guys that will ensure the boss is dead before it enrages and one shots everyone? Think you have a warped list of importance.

Since no-one specifically mentioned raids, chrono makes very little difference in fractals depending on the instabilities and in actual fact can be more of a hinderence overwriting regen from druids. It also isn’t required for anything but skips and a few places where moa allows for speedy kill (100 CM final 33%) but it’s not more important than the people dealing damage as without them the chrono is effectively useless.

Also in terms of buff bots druid is by far the biggest DPS increase in any PvE content, you have spotter, GoTL, frost/sun spirit, helps maintain scholar uptime, GoE and pretty good breakbars damage.

If I had to list roles in importance it would be:
1 druid buffbot
DPSx2
Chrono
DPSx1 (x2 if no decent chronos)

Raiding being end game (elitist and toxic if you believe the forums) content you should run optimised and no-one will deny chrono is mandatory just as only a fool would say DPS is in any way less important. They all have an important part to play and a bad player will be a big hinderence whatever they play.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

So, if I understand the reasoning, we need to have more LIs than can be possible to acquire with only 2 or 3 boss all year? So, each years, this required total will rise by 150 or so?

How long, knowing you can only ping a stack at a time, before this scheme become absolutely pointless?

Isn’t it better to ask for boss specific decorarions. It is, after all, a better guarantee, no?

Well then you’d have to keep something like Deimos every week, there’s also the RNG of the decorations, you could do it 10 times perfectly and get maybe 15-20 decorations or do it 5 times and get the same number. What is more likely is people will ask to ping legendary armour sets assuming people have 2 sets then some LI. That or CM titles but again you can be carried through it.

Fashion Mage.3712:

You know I’ve actually been looking at the water skills, and I’m just wondering where is the enormous amount of self-cleanses that people keep claiming to be there. Comparing off-hand cleanses, Magnetic Wave is on a lower cooldown than Cleansing Wave, and Magnetic Wave cleanses more conditions (and it comes with Obsidian Flesh, which prevents conditions afaik). The only really strong water cleanse is on the staff, and that’s a skill better used for support and it’s on a rather large 40 second cooldown. The other strong cleanses (none of which are attunement-specific) are Ether Renewal (removing a huge 8 conditions on a very low cooldown), Cleansing Fire/Burning Fire, cantrips in general (which only need the water trait line and not the attunement), and Diamond Skin. I’m like 80% certain there’ll be at least one utility cleanse as well. So quite frankly this just seems like a load of kitten to me.

Healing:
Healing ripple:1.5-2k heal depending on HP when attuning to water
Evasive arcana: 1.5-2k heal when dodging in water attunement
Elemental attunement: regeneration when attuning to water
Cleansing wave: 1.5-2k heal on dagger 5 in water attunement
Soothing mist: you and nearby allies regenerate health while attuned to water

This forms a core part of elementalist sustain, the buffs to GoEH might make it a viable/competitive sustain option for power specs though, especially if traited. However permenant regen, soothing mist and the signet heal can give you about 500-600 hp/s health regeneration with some extra done via attuning to water or doing something in water.

Cleanses:
Cleansing water: cleanse a condition whenever you grant regeneration.
Soothing disruption: cantrips grant regeneration
Elemental Attunement: regen on attuning to water
Evasive arcana: casts cleansing wave on dodge in water attunement (cures 1)
Cleansing wave: cures 2 conditions
Soothing Ice: gain regeneration and frost aura when crit.

What this amounts to is cleansing a condition about every 11s when attuning to water.
Cleansing 1 condition everytime you dodge in water, about every 11s.
Soothing ice gives you regen every 20s so that’s another condi clear every 20s.
This gives you nearly an 8k heal and 5 conditions cleansing for doing your normal rotation, every 20s.
It also gives you a cleanse on every utility usually as cantrips are just that much better unless going tempest and enhances cleansing/burning fire while reducing their cool downs.

There’s also some combos that grant extra regeneration, earth auto while in healing rain grants regen per hit cleansing another 2-3 conditions. It combos well with tempest and invigorating torrents as well as overload water cleansing even more.

I know the strength of a traited magnetic wave and it’s certainly an option however in general focus offers very little offense and all defence. Depending on the 2 attunements you pick it can either be good or bad as fire focus skills are largely pants but air can at least set up a burst with the 2s knockdown and the projectile hate is decent. The trait burning fire is already taken in most DD builds already and traited to a lower CD and an extra cleanse by taking water trait line.

When you ditch the water trait line and water attunement you lose out a cleanse per utility skill, bonus cleanse on your trait burning fire as well as longer CD, 2 cleanses and 4k heal every 11s or so.

To put it in perspective most damage/roamer builds in WvW can cleanse at least 10 conditions every 30s, most builds even more than that because that is what is needed.

While I don’t agree with all the changes in the patch I do agree with the idea of doing something to change how people play. This is a game being actively developed and supported by the development team, they can’t have 6-12 months where the same classes have the same builds just because it’s balanced.

I do agree with some things you put like warriors needed the range on GS changing and increase in headbutt CD (nerf the damage a bit too). However some things I don’t agree with like guardian and druid needing a buff.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

apharma.3741:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Vinceman.4572:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

You are kidding me, right?

What does 400 LI prove that 250 doesn’t in regard to relevant raid experience?

He didn’t wrote anything about 400 LI being superior to 250, he just explained how it works to ping the 400 in detail and added some more info how to prevent chat code & macro users from sneaking into a squad.

I know. I’m just amazed that people would ask to ping stuff the way it was described to try and find out if its really 500 and not just 250.

I mean, why bother at all if the difference between 250 and 300/400/500 is, to me at least, not really relevant.

At the moment you can have legendary armour and probably another 50-100 LI’s and be classed as dead weight to a team. By dead weight I mean fail mechanics constantly and doing very subpar DPS while also reducing raid DPS because they have to rez you all the time. By subpar I don’t mean a DPS role doing 23k DPS, I mean them doing more like 15k or less which means if another dps role is not playing at maximum efficiency or worse still one of the buffers isn’t buffing well you can fail DPS checks that are otherwise very easy.

So yes, while the requirements might seem high the reality is there’s a lot of chaff that’s been carried through raids by organised groups or regular raid groups and they have a large amount of LI.

I do not dispute many are carried (including myself sometimes). I’m seriously questionning the value of LI and how relevant a difference between 250 and 500 really is.

If you are a “dead weight” at 250 LI, having 50 or 100 more likely won’t change much since you already had tons of opportunities to change. Look for other indicators, like missing mechanics, to decide if the player is as experienced as you would like him/her to be. Because if it is true you can have 250 LI and be “dead weight”, you also have several players who have a fraction as many and are already pretty decent for a lot of reasons.

Lets be honest, LI requirement is already lazy. The more LI you have, the less of a difference it should make. Your first 10 LI says more than the 10 coming after. After 150? After 250? Its, IMO, just kittened and elitist in the worst possible way.

Well escort got released almost a year ago so that’s 50 LI you can get while being not even remotely good enough to do harder bosses. Spirit Vale got released 6 months before that, assuming you could get through VG as it’s probably the easiest due to how much people have killed it, that’s another 50-70 LI’s. Salvation pass was released in Jan 2016 so if you did trio every week which also isn’t hard that would be about 60 LI.

Current total for the easiest ones is 170 LI.

Bastion of the penitent has been out for 13 weeks and contains 2-3 bosses that offer very little challenge. Indeed a healer ele can pretty much carry a group through Cairn with them messing up a lot of mechanics. We can make that a round 30 LI assuming you sometimes kill Samarog or it takes you several weeks to realise stack on tail and hit.

Current total for easy low hanging LI is 200.

So the reality is you could just by being poor but getting into a good group that carries you get 250 fairly easily. In order to get 400-500 you must have killed multiple bosses week in week out. That is what people are wanting you to prove with the high LI requirement and what it shows. That or you are incredibly rich in game and have bought all your kills at great expense, something that will quickly become unviable.

Getting back on topic, yes the increase in cast time feels more clunky after years of of 0.75s cast and the boomerang effect doesn’t really make up for the increased cast or that you can’t cast from stealth anymore. The other side effect is having to wait for the boomerang to return before you can stealth as well.

Sly.9518:

Levetty.1279:

Yeah but what you are forgetting is that a Mesmer killed a thief that one time 3 years ago in hot join using power shatter better nerf the whole class every patch.

Funny thing Mesmer has been Meta every season since HoT( and Meta in every game mode since HoT) yet Thief hasn’t, hell Thief was even essentially removed from two seasons when HoT shipped. But yeah Thief is the big bad bogey man bahahaha

Well considering we are talking about greatsword and by extension power mesmer this is a steaming pile of whatever you want to imagine, I’ll say popcorn.

Ever since HoT came power mesmer has been in no meta at all. It’s only possibly seeing play now because the illusionary reversion nerf has cut condi chrono down a lot to the point where people are debating which is the least bad build.

Finally, any meta where thief is excluded from power mesmer is almost certainly in the same boat. The added bonus of any meta a thief is a part of then power mesmer gets farmed on at point of writing, outside of a well communicated team mesmer isn’t very impactful.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Vinceman.4572:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

You are kidding me, right?

What does 400 LI prove that 250 doesn’t in regard to relevant raid experience?

He didn’t wrote anything about 400 LI being superior to 250, he just explained how it works to ping the 400 in detail and added some more info how to prevent chat code & macro users from sneaking into a squad.

I know. I’m just amazed that people would ask to ping stuff the way it was described to try and find out if its really 500 and not just 250.

I mean, why bother at all if the difference between 250 and 300/400/500 is, to me at least, not really relevant.

At the moment you can have legendary armour and probably another 50-100 LI’s and be classed as dead weight to a team. By dead weight I mean fail mechanics constantly and doing very subpar DPS while also reducing raid DPS because they have to rez you all the time. By subpar I don’t mean a DPS role doing 23k DPS, I mean them doing more like 15k or less which means if another dps role is not playing at maximum efficiency or worse still one of the buffers isn’t buffing well you can fail DPS checks that are otherwise very easy.

So yes, while the requirements might seem high the reality is there’s a lot of chaff that’s been carried through raids by organised groups or regular raid groups and they have a large amount of LI.

The extra effect would be useful if it did more than 300 damage on crit in a full glass build but atm it’s a very weak attack. They also made it take longer to cast which I don’t like either. Overall it’s a change for the worse as it takes longer to cast making mesmer more susceptible to it’s counter, thief, while providing little to no real benefit for the increased cast time or it revealing you in stealth.

Jhoul.6923:

steve.2945:

Azel.4786:

steve.2945:

I can clarify that the leak is not fake. Some people reveres searched the image on google and it came back negative, meaning there are none like it. I’m hyped just like everyone is, so ill try to contain my self alittle until a gameplay reveal.

I would suggest to also hold your money in your wallet until every close to release / after release so you are sure you want to buy it.

I regret a lot having bought HoT when we had little to no information to just be disappointed by a bunch of features and the elite spec.

I’m buying the expansion without a doubt, I love Gw2. The only MMO so far that has kept my attention for this long. Been playing since 2012 can’t turn my back on it now.

HoT wasn’t that good at the beginning but when you look back now, after all they have done… its worth that and more.

I agree, if only they had balanced elite specs a little better I would say it’s one of the best expansions I’ve bought. Having said that I think that’s more of an issue with there being only 1 elite spec for each class at the moment. When we have 3 elite specs per class (damage, support, defence) it will help balance things substantially and allow for the toning down of things that are too strong in the current iteration.

I feel a little honest from ANet if this is their plan would go a long way, don’t be cryptic just outright say they plan to tone down current elite specs/make them more focused later. Ele being a great example with a support spec that is better for damage as well as support.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I’m pretty sure that’s not fake.

apharma.3741:

It’s not a glass build, it has 17k health and 2600 toughness for DD, go check out 7s build on this forum. Only FA ele is perhaps glass but even then most run marauder getting up to 18k health and usually get nearly 2.5k armour from either food, runes, trinkets or rock barrier.

1. The range on DD is 300-400 not counting tickle me Elmo vapour blades.
2. Necros, both kinds, have 900-1200 range.

So yeah nice try at making it sound like a L2P issue, sadly what you put was full of garbage. As I say anything but bunker eles have a hard time vs conditions at the moment, if the elite spec doesn’t bring ok clearing or resistance they you will have to run water attunement and water trait line to survive.

For the record I don’t think the new spec should be immune to conditions of have a cleanse all every 5s. Ele does need enough to be able to survive the silly condition meta we have now which at the moment ele has a hard time dealing with outside of its bunker build and would be impossible if you didn’t have water attunement.

Oh, explains why condition necros eat that build up then; honestly fire d/d sounds like a meh build to me. I use a glass staff ele (ie. the most fragile build in the game) in PvP and necros are extremely easy to kill to me. Easy to kite, and as soon as they’re low enough, blind from arcane power + air overload kills them pretty easily. The point to a proper power build isn’t to outsustain your enemy, the point is to kill them before they kill you, and you don’t need a huge amount of cleanses to do that.

You just don’t get it, sword will be close range, conditions get applied before you get close enough a lot of the time or burn dodges. The current meta has so many conditions that power builds already have issues while also having water attunement and trait line. When you have to choose only 2 elements you will be left with the choice of only 1 if water line and attunement are almost mandatory to not get overloaded with conditions in seconds.

As for your statement about killing on glass staff, you must be coming up against some god aweful necros as staff is so very easy to LoS and there’s nothing you can do.

messiah.1908:

Taranis.7451:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myN-_ZJRnzI

TFW they nerf PvE staff damage to bring us more in-line with other Raid DPSers.

TFW they undo all that and give us a 42-44k condi build with a single element “rotation” that anybody can pull off.

Amazing balance :-)

in your video what software you were using to state your skills dmg?

Looks like arcdps from the UI with customised layout.

Jski.6180:

apharma.3741:

Fashion Mage.3712:

I wasn’t aware fire DD was even a thing. If you’re using a glass build on an ele, your first mistake was getting in melee range of a necro. The same goes for a fire/air ele. If a necro gets up to you in melee range as a fire/air staff ele, then that’s entirely your fault.

It’s not a glass build, it has 17k health and 2600 toughness for DD, go check out 7s build on this forum. Only FA ele is perhaps glass but even then most run marauder getting up to 18k health and usually get nearly 2.5k armour from either food, runes, trinkets or rock barrier.

1. The range on DD is 300-400 not counting tickle me Elmo vapour blades.
2. Necros, both kinds, have 900-1200 range.

So yeah nice try at making it sound like a L2P issue, sadly what you put was full of garbage. As I say anything but bunker eles have a hard time vs conditions at the moment, if the elite spec doesn’t bring ok clearing or resistance they you will have to run water attunement and water trait line to survive.

For the record I don’t think the new spec should be immune to conditions of have a cleanse all every 5s. Ele does need enough to be able to survive the silly condition meta we have now which at the moment ele has a hard time dealing with outside of its bunker build and would be impossible if you didn’t have water attunement.

2,600 armor is low unless you have perma protection or high healing power.

Only FA might have lower than 100% protection uptime, both almost certainly have 75% on any sensible build. The DD version runs gnashblade food so that’s -10% damage straight off the top.

Also in what world are we saying 2.6k is low?! Zerg guardians might have 3.2k most have about 3k.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I wasn’t aware fire DD was even a thing. If you’re using a glass build on an ele, your first mistake was getting in melee range of a necro. The same goes for a fire/air ele. If a necro gets up to you in melee range as a fire/air staff ele, then that’s entirely your fault.

It’s not a glass build, it has 17k health and 2600 toughness for DD, go check out 7s build on this forum. Only FA ele is perhaps glass but even then most run marauder getting up to 18k health and usually get nearly 2.5k armour from either food, runes, trinkets or rock barrier.

1. The range on DD is 300-400 not counting tickle me Elmo vapour blades.
2. Necros, both kinds, have 900-1200 range.

So yeah nice try at making it sound like a L2P issue, sadly what you put was full of garbage. As I say anything but bunker eles have a hard time vs conditions at the moment, if the elite spec doesn’t bring ok clearing or resistance they you will have to run water attunement and water trait line to survive.

For the record I don’t think the new spec should be immune to conditions of have a cleanse all every 5s. Ele does need enough to be able to survive the silly condition meta we have now which at the moment ele has a hard time dealing with outside of its bunker build and would be impossible if you didn’t have water attunement.

Use mass invis from the mesmer and increase to 9 necros, use mesmer to portal out and share distortion if you bring a 2nd mesmer instead of 9th necro. Necros can then also cast corrosive poison cloud and take another utility for more condition fields.

Mesmer can also null field the area to remove boons like resistance while giving resistance to the necro’s.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Pretty sure the scrapper has at least 4/5 boons up nearly permanently in combat, hell isn’t there a trait that basically gives might upon using hammer AA? I quite often see scrappers with well over 15 might stacks with in 5 seconds of engagement

They gain might on auto as part of the hammer auto, the trait is might while you have stability. A big part of the boon uptime was protection injection which if you had 50% boon duration was 4.5s of protection whenever you got CC’d with a 5s ICD, that’s now 10s. The other part is alchemy trait line with 2 might on elixir use and having 4 elixir skills as well as the minor in alchemy being hidden flask giving a lot of boons and high regen from tool belt skills.

You see a lot of scrappers constantly casting tool belt elixir skills in WvW to keep giving themselves might then swapping back to what they use normally to fight with entering combat with 6-8 might.

messiah.1908:

i kinda like the idea of stealing boons , removing boons

dont forget we have several classes who can reach high boons stacks and numbers

ranger, necro, ele, revenant etc..

so to counter them its nice to steal thier boons

but i agree necro who build 25 mights stacks while his sustain is weaker than any other class (rev maybe) might be in big problem now.

and thief who steal 25 might stacks easily cause necro skills are preety much screaming for cc…. also problematic

i dont think the problem is in the sigil rather the ability to cc constantly

thief with his #4 pistol . if they are great player kitten … if they are spamming its annoying as hell. so i dont know how you can favot the good player versus the bad spamming player . increase the initiative cost maybe or like they did with unload. if all hit connect you gain 2 initiative so add more 2 initiative and if you interupt you gain 2 initiative more and if you failed to you lost more initiative … sound more right to me .

for thief the main problem is PI with no cd. i dont mind to see thief having 25 might stacks . your team should peel for you if a thief hunting you

maybe thief now are more viable cause other got sustain nerf. so few minor adjustment will be needed.

also maybe put 5 sec icd on the sigil

Another option is to cap what is stolen so you might steal protection but rather than the 20s some classes might have it only lasts 5s but removes it completely from the target. Might could be capped at 5 stacks but removes all 25 from the target.

As for the balancing of thief, I said a while ago perhaps an avenue to explore is short 1-5s cool downs on skills while tuning them up to be generally more useable and stronger where needed like what ANet seems to be doing with massively underused skills now. The daze from headshot could be increased without worrying about PI spam if it had a 2-3s cool down and cost less initiative, it also opens the doors to more interrupt/daze traits in the future without worrying about being spammed.

Chinchilla.1785:

In short.

ANET should balance for balanced situations. Not cater to the 5 in a 5v40 because it screws over the 30v30.

No, they should balance for the reality of the mode, outside of prime time in a very few select matchups you don’t get that 30v30 it’s more like 30v30 at your hills while the other server is hitting your bay leaving you 5v40 at bay.

While I will accept it is a population balance issue this has been going on for years which means they should be balancing the game mode for these outnumbered situations.

zinkz.7045:

Svarty.8019:

This is a problem because THERE IS NO COUNTERPLAY.

There is no problem, because the counterplay is to stop hugging siege in your tower, go out and fight them, you know, what you are supposed to do in a PvP game mode…

Doesn’t work when it’s 5 people and 10 headless chickens defending vs a group of 30-40 fully supplied with those gawd aweful necros plaguing WvW atm.

I mean I’d happily fight them all 1 by 1 if they’d form a nice orderly queue….