@Sirbeaumerdier
I agree, TS invading is bad, it’s poor play and I don’t like it even if it’s for fun with people who were kittenbags to you.
BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…
However, the people in the video are terrible. You’re an ele, can you honestly say that ele played even half decent at all? I saw him stay in fire all the time, I think once there was a static field but in general he was bad.
I mean, where was water 5? You and I both know that would have rendered the condi user obsolete till the necro showed up. You can’t defend that kind of terrible play. A condi thief would have farmed them for days, same with engineer. Hell even the necro, yes the necro that had it’s conditions nerfed to the ground this patch was wrecking them and they have FA stab, you can CC them to death!
Mind you, if Obs wasn’t running traveler s/he would have died I dare say as mesmer is soooo slow.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Do none of them run condi clear?
They’re very bad players, they run and attack when they have a lot of confusion and 5+ torment.
The ele was spamming auto on staff…in fire. WTF. He could have instantly reduced your damage to 0 with water 5. I really hope this isn’t who Anet balances around.
Poor show being in their TS and using it to find them though.
The only weapon-set/playstyle that can afford to even sit in one attunement for 5s to begin with is fire-camping staff pve eles. That is also the only playstyle that can afford the long attunement CD, b/c they wont be swapping out.
Which of course is a build that will never take tempest because there is simply no way the damage of fire, and if we are being generous air, overloads will out weigh the damage mods of water or air specs.
PvE ele goes air, cast glyph, earth, eruption, fire, lava font, meteor, switch to water as soon as the cast starts, frost bow when meteor finishes channeling, use 4 and 3 then drop, 2, 3 if a heal is good for scholar then back to camping fire.
By that point most things are dead but even then the only attunement to overload would be air initially. We take the 2 damage mods in water, one is a 20% and the other is a 10%. Air and fire also have just as big damage mods so really I can’t see any reason to even entertain the idea of tempest in PvE.
That’s without going over what others have said. Quite frankly anyone that said ele couldn’t frontline support doesn’t know how to play ele and should stick to cotton wool wrapped endure pain warrior.
It looks like it’s going to be awful for PvE sadly. :x
My thoughts exactly but you can extend it to anything that isn’t open world messing around.
I wouldn’t say mesmer is OP just that it’s getting a lot more free meals than it should for damage.
They need to rebalance how much vulnerability we add in our burst and then tone down master fencer.
Also that torch trait is OP in one extreme and borderline useless in the other where you only pick the trait and the torch. It just needs reworking.
CS is annoying, it’s hard to balance though without making it unreliable. Those are the only things I feel are a bit strong atm.
PU makes up for the loss of our clone death stuff but in PvP really isn’t needed due to LoS galore but tangfastic in WvW.
Fragility: It’s massively boosting our burst when combined with vuln on daze (Dazzling) and mirror blade. Fotm mesmers don’t even understand why they hit so hard /cry.
Master fencer: Pretty much if you take pack runes and marauder amulet you’re gonna be at 80-90% crit chance and hit like a truck with burst. It’s way too good and has such a ridiculously low requirement.
Fencers Finesse: Great trait for PvE mesmer, can often simply be overlooked as “the sword trait again” but is much improved.
Blurred Inscriptions: Not just a cool down reduction but distortion AND removing a condition for signets? There’s also a stun break, instant cast, blind nearby enemies signet? Whoa, next you’ll be telling me I can share the distortion…
Inspiring Distortion: Yeah when this is paired with some signets it’s very nice. Often looked at as a nice freebie but it combos very nicely in PvE and PvP.
With the exception of the last one (I think most mesmers know how strong distortion sharing is) I think a lot of those are underestimated. Certainly the first 2 and I’d add Dazzling to the list but I covered it in fragility.
Use mantra of pain, spam it on trash with auto attacks for loot and tagging. Recast it between trash.
Bosses our damage fairs much better so long as they don’t have some kind of BS mechanic where you need a buff to hurt it (looking at you Arah P2) and can maintain phantasms. Duelist is great for staying alive and doing decent damage.
Don’t get me wrong, mesmer isn’t great for PvE but it’s at least serviceable, if Anet allows them to take much reduced damage from AoE then it would be perfect. I know phantasms are immune to some AoE on some world bosses and fractal bosses but it needs extending.
Ele needs a complete from the ground up rework not a nerf.
The trait lines need to be less specific to the element and instead be thematic but apply on swap or to certain things across elements (say soft CC, when inflicting a damaging condition etc) then we can see a balanced ele instead of thise crazy OP or crazy UP thing we get.
Will there be a period of free or very low cost transfers to allow for a slight rebalance of population etc?
Will there be any free transfers, for example to the bottom 3 servers?
There is no plan to change the price per population tier at the moment. We’ll be looking closely at how players are moving/joining World, however. The goal is a better balance, but not a too sudden disruption either.
Thank you for the response. I’ll look forward to the details.
Will there be a period of free or very low cost transfers to allow for a slight rebalance of population etc?
Will there be any free transfers, for example to the bottom 3 servers?
The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.
I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?
Or use dagger and focus….
You get a low cool down evade on burning speed, lots of chill, 2 interrupts of your own, cripple, immob, reflect, projectile block, invuln which can be used when stunned, weakness, a great auto on lightening whip and about an 18s cool down on shocking aura if training aeromancers training.
If you intentionally want to use your screwdriver to hammer nails then go for it but don’t complain when they’re all wonky or it takes longer.
The only hope you should have as zerk staff ele against a thief, mesmer or power necro is that they have brain damage or are afk. They shouldn’t just beat you, they should stomp you into the ground especially when your defensive cool downs are up. They also have every way to disrupt your highly telegraphed, long activation skills or at least anything that poses a threat to them or is good for you.
For tips on D/F fresh air, phantaram has some nice streams of him playing D/F marauder. Check that out, perhaps look at the way he rotates around the map. I know he’s using the super speed when attuning to air to get more mobility and will LoS till his burst is ready.
Ok then let me be blunt, playing staff zerker ele against a burst build like that is just silly. You should lose, the odds are stacked against you so stop complaining. You should lose to most thieves, power necros should farm you and even medi guards should stomp you with ease. In fact most zerker builds have it heavily weighted in their favour.
Play a more realistic burst build with ele like D/F or S/F fresh air and you stand a better chance at bursting people down. The only person you have to blame is yourself for the situation you’re in, you’re using the wrong tools for the wrong job.
Well, I main ele and have a ridiculous amount on staff with zerk. If PvP I would suggest rolling something with a bit more vit and toughness but if you prefer zerk stick with marauder. Mistform, lightening flash and arcane shield (also final shielding trait)are great and all can be used when stunned, with 2 being a stun break.
Mist form the first burst, make sure you use your AoE to cleave out clones. When they fail the shatter you should have 2-3s before the daze mantra is ready again so meteor is a good thing to lay down then, cancel just before the full channel though. Use of chill will be very effective on them too and keeping a good rotation going so you get high protection uptime.
If you’re talking WvW and you’re roaming with staff, sorry but that’s just a bad plan without others but with a few other people you should have a better time. If zerg watch the fringes of the fight, keep an eye on their movements and make sure you’re not too out of position and keep your back to your zerg for a quick burning retreat to them. It doesn’t matter if you go down with your Zerg, any decent commander will Rez an ele as they know how valuable they are especially if you’re calling out water fields on TS.
Got any more specifics about your fights?
Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong classMy god this guy is full of himself… yisssh…
But back on topic, I completely disagree ppl complain because mesmer supposedly wasn’t a strong class before. Feeling powerless when fighting one is a much more accurate pov.
I’ve lost countless fights vs mesmers that I was left asking myself what did I do wrong? what should I have done instead? The only answer in many case was ‘you tried to fight instead of running’. What makes it worse is the fact you are feeling like that vs obviously sub par mesmers while you are on a build you completely own for thousands of hours. Yes, ppl exaggerate but there are very valid complaint you can’t reasonably brush under the ‘l2p’ carpet.
That kind of attitude won’t get anyone anywhere.
What build were you running? Don’t be shy, I may loathe condition thief but if you’re running it we can offer advise on when to attack etc.
Any specifics on the fight? Was it MoD stun repeatedly used? What weapons were they using? Were they power or condition?
A lot of veteran mesmers would be happy to point out the openings for attack and a lot of people here play other classes too so can perhaps offer advise like taking a certain utility, perhaps a slight change in signals or runes. Maybe it might be more simple as use this at this point and you’ll wreck them.
Pyroatheist making friends again…
He’s right though.
As for the OP all builds have inherent weaknesses, the best thing to do is pick the way you want to play and figure out your weaknesses. Then play with people or get others to cover that weakness. As for the best builds, they’re already scattered around the forum and will probably be updated into Lyssa’s Grimoire soon given how much gusto Chaos Arhangel has for mesmers.
(edited by apharma.3741)
PU is fine..
The only problem comes when its mixed with torch and manipulation cd’s. Then its overkill and too easy.. Please fix anet I’m getting bored of my class and I can’t enjoy any of my wins.
Just dont run PU?
It’s not like it’s necessary anyway. Decoy, mass invis, more than enough. Hell, you shouldn’t even need MI. Decoy will do.
For PvP it is where there’s something to LoS around every few steps. In WvW this isn’t the case a lot of the time, that’s where the extra stealth duration is really handy. I know, we don’t balance around WvW but just thought I’d mention it. I do want to see the torch trait changed though, it’s just simply bad for anything but boring camping in stealth and being something I can’t say on the forums.
Master fencer is the fury when striking a foe below 75% trait. It essentially means your MW will be almost a full crit MW as well as follow up mind stab having a high chance of crit too.
You’re thinking of fencers finesse I think.
Well, I did a load of Maths in the MW damage thread and off the top of it we’re getting way too much vulnerability for very little. With just the mantra and mirror blade hitting you’re getting 14 stacks which is the equivalent to 21 stacks with fragility. It’s about 11% more damage modifier than the previous shatter build and more vulnerability compounds the issue.
Put simply, why do we get 5 for a daze and only 3 for an interrupt? Make it 2 and then 6 respectively.
On top of that master fencer is another issue, it needs the health threshold making 50% or maybe lower. It’s resulting in some 75% crit chance on most bursts after a relatively small amount of damage.
I hope Anet takes their time and brings things down slowly. A good place to start is the stats and to scale the damage aspect down a little. Another good place to look is that horrible torch trait.
Don’t you dare touch my torch trait!
It’s a bad trait, you know it, I know it. Besides we might get a nicer trait that rewards an aggressive playstyle =D
As for CS, I like what Pyro suggested. 10s ICD local to the target. Also staff trait needs buffing to 3-4%. Wait buffs…what dark magic is this!?
Who liked fighting mesmers before? I don’t like swinging at a target that explodes in purple sparkles. I have never enjoyed fighting against a mes pre or post patch, and you know what that’s fine. The class plays great, it has infuriating skills, interrupts, dazes, that all add up to a class that feels like it should. That’s my opinion at least from the opposite side of the fence.
You can now kill the clones with no fear of conditions, that has to be an improvement for you right?
Kinda agree with ResJudicator.
I have been messing around on my thief recently to get a better feel of it after patch. 2 mesmers playing the PU, MoD build just kept at it on me. Was very annoying, I baited them all out and lasted for a very long time but couldn’t kill either of them due to the other using CS and constantly watching for the burst.
When the numbers evened up the fight was easier. A change to CS is definitely needed, it isn’t fun fighting against a high uptime of stuns and even worse if there’s multiple people using it.
Also fixing the torch trait to remove stealth camping and improve it’s actual use outside of stealth builds would be nice.
blitzkrieg, when did you last do PvE in this game? FGS hasn’t been a thing for a very long time. Warrior with GS is now a beast due to the ability to take 3 full lines and the change to berserkers power. I mean warrior has even made might stacking eles completely redundant not just mostly redundant like when they gave up huge amounts of personal DPS for it.
Anyway, I don’t think ele is going to be stepping on mesmer toes. Mesmer does it easier and better and an ele is better utilised nuking things with meteor and frostbow in water. 20s CD on meteor, lol, way to make ele’s totally superior.
It’s also worth pointing out that in PvE staff ele with fire, air and water doesn’t just blow other classes away, it blows them out of the atmosphere. I dunno how thief fares but mesmer, warrior, 3 eles looks like the speed run comp now.
Ele is already stupidly strong at support even when going for damage.
Staff is not a stand at 1200 range and support from a fair, if built right, you want to be near the action so you can support as best you can.
I also think it’s not addressing the glaring issue with ele scepter especially when deliberately side stepped it by saying “warhorn will synergize well with mainhand dagger.”
I just can’t understand why eles need this, just as I don’t understand why eles that suffer from a massive flip flop between weak as kittens to Zeus on steriods didn’t get the complete rework with specializations.
It would be quite difficult to calculate the effect of the fury boost exactly, but a reasonable approximation is to say that the mind wrack hits are affected by that fury, while the mirror blade hits aren’t.
In answer to your question specifically, applied fury will affect mind wrack a from clones that are still running to their target. The clones themselves are just the visual indicator of an impending attack, but the attack is executed and calculated at the moment of impact.
Yeah I was thinking it might be something like that. Essentially it means your clones with marauder amulet are going to be at ~75% crit chance so the likelihood of a devastating MW is high and follow up MS will crit a lot too to finish you off.
If I had to make suggestions to tone down the burst or to add more “high skill” to it assuming amulets aren’t being changed it would be:
Mirror Blade: reduce vulnerability to 2 stacks.
Dazzling (dom master minor): Inflict 2 vulnerability on daze.
Illusion of vulnerability: Inflict 6 vulnerability on interrupt.
Master Fencer: Threshold should be 50%.
I think that would tone down the damage of shatter mesmer or at least make stupidly hard bursts something that requires more skill. Won’t matter to most but it will be the death of these mantra of distraction stealth fotm shatters.
Should keep damage for interrupt mesmers. Powerblock will always be better for those looking to actually interrupt however mental anguish is always better for shatter mesmers.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Assuming we had pre patch modifiers (1.2 MW and 1.09 vuln) with the new amulets damage looks like this:
Marauder, if all crit: 11,380
Berserker if all crit: 13,390
Now if we assume you’re only getting the 10% modifier from mental anguish but keeping high vuln modifier our new max damage looks like this:
Marauder all crits: 12,367 (5868 from MW)
Berserker all crits: 15, 192 (7530 from MW)
We can see here the difference isn’t exactly that high but the marauder loses out by about 1000 damage on the MW. Still we’re doing a lot higher damage and certainly more than if we had pre patch modifiers on post patch amulets.
With that in mind if we revert the vulnerability to pre patch levels (so only the 9 from mirror blade no fragility no daze/interrupts) our damage would look more like this:
Marauder all crits: 11,967 (6096 from MW)
Berserker all crits: 14,079 (7171 from MW)
So to me this appears that it’s really all the extra vulnerability coupled with the fragility which is causing the massive spike specific to mesmers. Without that even factoring in the full mental anguish bonus we’re not that much higher than if you had simply boosted the amulets.
Extra crits also have their part to play in all this too, the fencers finesse trait certainly is allowing more crits than I want to work out for.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Did you include the stats from the trait lines before patch? I can’t see them (maybe didn’t look well). The shatter build had 200 power, 200 precision and 200 ferocity from the trait lines.
Well kitten time to delete it all /cry.
Ok I’ll go back and rework the pre patch damage. Just working out what our damage is using pre patch modifiers on the stats for the new amulets.
Spoilers: It’s looking increasingly more like a stat problem.
Edit: Ok I fixed the extra stats from trait lines which makes pre patch if all crit damage much much closer to post patch. Adjusted the “realistic” damage for it accordingly.
@ Pyro: Not sure how to take into account the extra fury popping along after the first hit or two. If you activated MW before you got the fury but you got fury while clones are running to blow up, do they get increased chance or not?
(edited by apharma.3741)
Pre patch berserker: 40.4% crit chance
Mirror blade:
2058*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 743.7
Crit 743.7*1.81 = 1346
With multipliers 1346*1.03 = 1386 1st hit.
Subsequent hits: 2nd = 1427, 3rd = 1467
Mind Wrack:
2058*0.77*1047.5/2029 = 818.1
Crit 818.1*1.81 = 1480
With multipliers 1480*(1.2*1.09) = 1936 (1936*3 = 5808)
Mind Stab:
2058*0.85*1047.5/2029 = 903.1
Crit 903.1*1.81 = 1634
With multipliers 1634*1.09 = 1781
Total damage if all crit = 1386+1427+1467+5808+1781 = 11,869
Post patch marauder: 54% crit chance
Mantra of distraction used as Mirror Blade lands for 5+3 vulnerability on interrupt of 11111 thief. With the GM minor that is 50% more effective.
Mirror Blade:
2050*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 740.8
Crit 740.8*1.76 = 1304
With multipliers 1304*1.12 = 1460
2nd hit 1512, 3rd hit 1564
Mind Wrack:
2050*0.77*1047.5/2029 = 815
Crit 815*1.76 = 1434
With multipliers 1434*(1.3*1.24)= 2311 (2311*3 = 6933)
Note: A simple F1 (1 clone shatter) will do 3453 damage and a full 3+1 clone shatter you’re looking at 9244
Mind Stab:
2050*0.85*1047.5/2029 = 899.5
Crit 899.5*1.76 = 1583
With multipliers 1583*1.24 = 1963
Total damage if all crit = 1460+1512+1564+6933+1963 = 13,432
Post patch berserker: 46.8% crit chance.
Mirror Blade:
2200*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 795
Crit 795*1.93 = 1534
With multipliers 1534*1.12 = 1718
2nd hit 1779, 3rd hit 1856
Mind Wrack:
2200*0.77*1047.5/2029 = 874
Crit 874*1.93 = 1687
With multipliers 1687*(1.3*1.24)= 2719 (2719*3 = 8157)
Note: A simple F1 (1 clone shatter) will do 4063 damage and a full 3+1 clone shatter you’re looking at 10,876
Mind Stab:
2200*0.85*1047.5/2029 = 965
Crit 965*1.93 = 1862
With multipliers 1862*1.24 = 2309
Total damage if all crit =1718+1779+1856+8157+2309 = 15,819
So a comparison of all crit damage.
Old berserker: 11,869
Marauder: 13,432
New berserker: 15,819
However crit chance factors into it as well, with both new amulets having 20% and 12% more crit chance than old berserker respectively. A more realistic comparison might be as follows:
Old berserker: 8,947 (1 MB crit, 2 MW crit) (9,744 if MS crit too)
Marauder: 11,586 (1 MB crit, 2 MW crits and MS crit)
New berserker: 12,073 (1 MB crit, 2 MW crit)
These are just examples, the damage could vary quite a lot due to RNG and it also takes into consideration all clones actually hitting and surviving to hit.
Still post patch we hit a lot harder and a lot of that comes down to the extra vulnerability and our use of it giving us a much higher multiplier (1.612). It is also worth noting that for MW if you do not get the 30% damage against targets not using skills bonus the total multiplier (1.364) is much much closer to pre patch levels (1.308).
TL:DR. We got more modifiers which when fulfilled give us a lot more damage but if not fulfilled or low vulnerability then it’s all just stat inflation.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Ok so I’m wanting to see how much more damage the mirror blade, MW, mind stab combo does pre patch and post patch.
So pre patch berserker was:
+932 Power (200 extra from traits)
+650 Precision (200 extra from traits)
+451 Ferocity (200 extra from traits)
+331 Vitality
Post patch berserker is:
+1200 Power
+900 Precision
+900 Ferocity
Post patch marauder is:
+1050 Precision
+1050 Power
+560 Vitality
+560 Ferocity
Mirror Blade is:
Damage: 259 (0.700 coefficient according to wiki) and has 4 bounces so can hit an enemy 3 times.
Mind Stab is:
Damage: 314 (0.850 coefficeint according to wiki)
Pyro provided the MW coefficients:
1 Clone, per clone: 1.15
2 Clone, per clone: .89
3 Clone, per clone: .77
Base stats in damage are:
1000 power (926 pre patch)
1000 Precision (4% crit chance)
0 ferocity (150% crit damage)
GS weapon strength 995 – 1,100, average 1047.5
Armour base for light 1888, medium 2029, heavy 2167.
Formulae:
Skill Damage = Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient / Armor
Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)
Assumptions: Mirror blade hits 3 times, on medium armour, no damage from runes or sigils, meta shatter build, 2+1 clone shatter. Not taking might into consideration but will take into consideration vuln from mirror blade. Mantra of distraction into mental anguish MW.
That’s a lot, don’t pay too much attention though, just figures.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Duelling is all well and good till you realise this game is in no way balanced for this.
Certain builds and classes just have a huge natural advantage over others and yet the other build/class in a team far exceeds the duelling build.
I just don’t understand why people duel in WvW instead of PvP where stats are normalised and you both have a more fair chance.
Thing is it has to offer more than current ele weapons do.
Staff has amazing team support, water fields, lowish cool down blast in earth, AoE CC both hard and soft and large AoE damage.
D/X people already go into water/arcana and so has heals and cleanses as well as AoE protection to those around them and swiftness. That’s without mentioning focus giving a lot of defence like swirling winds, ranged CC and an invuln better than endure pain.
The reason eles are annoyed is its giving them something they already have effectively but arguably worse from the preview. The shout elite just looks bad 25% off say a timewarp is kitten but off other class elites you’re looking at maybe 20s at the cost of your own elite doing pretty much nothing.
P.S. Just because you run staff doesn’t mean you need to sit at max range, a good lee is in the thick of it on staff when needed.
All I can say is I was playing with my thief in WvW tonight instead of mesmer. I had stealth when I needed it, I could be pr01337 and just better than everyone trying to stop me but I think just learning the basics about mechanics such as fields is what did it.
It isn’t hard to combo stealth as a thief, not when you need/want it and short of SR there’s very little people can do about it.
Got 100-0 by 1 daze mesmer but I was so out of position quite frankly if he didn’t the 10 bearbows woulda.
Met my first condi thief since the patch…I hate them, they can die in a fire in the deepest part of hell. I’d rather be killed by a daze mesmer 100 times than see that low risk troll build become popular.
Other than that only thing that really was a threat was maybe power necros if they got to zerg safety and could turn the DPS onto you and those bloomin 1500 range rapidfires, didn’t die to them though.
Guys, they said they wanted to increase frontline support for eles….
Let that sink in, Anet, thinks eles need to offer more frontline support.
D/X ele…
ele…more support…
I’m not worried in the slightest.
The ultimate questions are this:
Who do you balance for in this game? do you balance for the noob / average gamer or do you balance for the top tier player?
If you’re balancing for the noob, mesmer isn’t where it should be or atleast where it should be because of course, it completely caters to a noob playstyle now as opposed to pre-patch and if you’re balancing for top tier , then mesmer is horribly overpowered (as said by most top tier players). Which one do you listen to? If this game truly wants to go esports, as they’re very clearly trying to go , they should follow suit and balance for top tier like Dota , etc. – otherwise, noob players will continually ruin this game even more than it already is in the top tier / esports pvp aspect of it.
Thing is not everyone is wanting “balance” they’re very one sided and don’t even stop to think, compare, look at what a class loses and gains in patches.
Example: Mesmer lost Confusion, bleed, weakness, cripple and vulnerability on clone death in a variety of different traits.
What it gained was a blind on shatter, a longer stealth on PU and a much improved interrupt GMs to really weaken foes you interrupt.
People are looking at mesmer stealth and jumping on PU when the reality is mesmers lost a lot of drawbacks to killing their shatter fodder and damage and so needed to gain it back somewhere.
I believe Pyro said in the MW damage thread that a 3+1 clone shatter has a 3.08 coefficient. That’s absolutely insane so of course a moderate increase in power is going to benefit it a lot but people don’t sit and really examine what really is causing the “problems”.
Having said that there are clearly some things that could be tuned up. Blind on shatter shouldn’t go through evade/invuln, not saying people will time it but it shouldn’t should they by chance dodge it. CS is a bit too strong atm but it’s hard to balance it without making it silly. The torch trait is just plain bad, promotes stealth camping and is borderline useless otherwise.
Mesmer’s have been proven somewhere around 52 Seconds of stealth. Hollup, didn’t Thieves get nerfed for getting insane amounts of stealth. When the D/P meta first came about. They did, so that’s broke too. Good damage does not deem 1 shots to everything. Lastly Mantra’s extreme carries for the bads and makes the goods look godly.
Whoa, lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
Thieves only require initiative to stealth and not be revealed. They effectively have no cool down on it. They also only require to be in stealth and not be in your forward arc to do their burst. If they miss or you dodge? Keep trying, they didn’t deal damage so are still in stealth and keep at it till it lands.
Mesmers on the other hand have cool downs. Mirror blade as you say has 8s but mind wrack which is most of the burst is 12s. However their stealth has cool downs too. Torch 30s, decoy 40s (32s traited) and MI is 90s (72s traited). If you only factor in PU at most you can get 22s continuous stealth before having to spend 8s waiting for the torch and another 18s for decoy.
The high stealth comes from the frankly ridiculous torch trait which when camping stealth gets down to a 13s recharge. Change that trait and you’ll see less stealth camping mesmers as almost no-one will pick illusions just for the recharge on decoy.
If you’re complaining about mantras, you obviously never used them pre patch, they were anything but fine.
Yeah I had thought of something like that Carighan, the question is, does it promote active play and to essentially keep you seen and in combat as well as the limit on the recharge etc.
Perhaps it would be worth changing it to everytime you inflict burn just to see how it goes then if it’s not having the desired effect go 20% CD.
Oh so is this why you’re called “The Ghost of Pyro Past” Fay.
Account banned for forum posting or something?
Ok you’re clearly clueless.
#sarcasm
Ah my mistake, your uniform text should have clued me in on that, especially when everything else in your post has actually been said as proposals to nerf mesmer.
You are tottaly right!!!1
But class need slightly more adjusting.Autoattacks:
Mesmes autos hit too hard or too fast. Gs aa should have only 1 hit (3 hits is OP). Sword AA inflict condi and remove boon on 3rd attack. No boon striping except trait.
Scepter AA is fine, mb make projectile little slower.Mantras:
Of course no background recharging. Should have some cast time.Stealth:
Any phantasm summon should reveal.Armor and health:
Armor of mesmer class is low so it is ok. But mesmers should have lesser health pool for balance goal (now medium hp pool).Have much more suggestions, but those above should be done ASAP!!!12
Ok you’re clearly clueless.
Mesmer auto attacks are half other professions. Seriously, get some friends to stand around in zerker gear, you on mesmer them on their others and call out the listed damage. All this shows is your utter and complete lack of thought and understanding of the game not to mention skill.
I mean seriously, you’re complaining about the weakest attack chain in the entire game.
That’s without mentioning mantras always have a cast time, it’s nearly 3s. Really, nearly 3 whole seconds of you running around with a giant circle above your head saying “interrupt me”!
It’s kinda hard to explain without a ton of ele experience. Don’t get me wrong, I know full well ele is pretty much top tier in many things and I know how much better it has things than many other classes.
Still you have viable builds outside of dueling and even differentiation within dueling. Ele doesn’t. Ele has pretty much the same 4-6 traits in water/arcana in almost every build. The only differences now are the 3rd specialization.
I don’t know any other class more pigeon holed, except maybe thief now.
Anyway perhaps it’s best to continue this in the ele forums.
I certainly feel mesmers are in a much better place post patch than before. Especially as all classes have very clear and distinct functions of trait lines now which are the same across all classes.
It’s also worth pointing out to the thread in general that mobility skills have had their interaction with swiftness massively nerfed. This mobility nerf has certainly worked in mesmers favour.
(edited by apharma.3741)
They need to delete everything to do with scepter and then stick Robert Gee’s team onto it. The way that team reworked and shaped mesmer is extremely impressive.
Scepter at the moment just doesn’t know what it’s doing other than providing blasts.
I really, really, really, don’t see this as a good idea.
Ele currently still feels tied to water/arcana, often both with little variety in builds. Scepter is horrible and needs a complete rework. Dagger MH is ok but still they would be balancing 8 skills against 24 others (12Sc+12D) and that’s without mentioning that we pretty much have most of what we need in the current 2 offhands.
P.S. I want a greatsword that isn’t a glorified zimmerframe…I mean mobility aid.
This is so so so so true. Right now I’m defending the idea or a warhorn for the elite spec, and so many people are upset and they’re spouting ludicrous arguments such as, “Main hand dagger isn’t good, so we needed another mainhand weapon” (which is laughable since MH dagger is amazing), or “our current offhands are already so great” (that doesn’t mean that the WH won’t have its own impactful game changing skills).
The problem with ele mains are that they’ve never had to really adapt because except for one meta in 2013, they’ve been the best class in the game, yet those that only play ele can’t see the ele in relation to other classes. They think that the elementalist has tons of problems, when anyone who multiclasses knows that their problems are very few and they have so many great tools to work with.
Its not really relevant, but its what I see, and I’m frustrated with these stubborn ele mains who don’t realize how great their class is, because if they realized that they wouldn’t be so dismissive of getting an offhand weapon for their elite spec.
Well, I main an ele and various things are true but some are not entirely correct.
A lot of eles complaining about eles are complaining about the complete lack of diversity. In any PvP scenario whether it be WvW or PvP you feel forced into water or arcana, often both. I know, top tier and I do play other classes.
As for the offhand warhorn, it’s just not a good idea to have a complete new specialization system and then add something that will interact with so much. It’s not just 2 skills you’re balancing with possibly 9-12 others on mainhand, it’s 8 skills with upto 24 others on the main hand. It would be much easier and better to give a 2 hander weapon and make balancing easier.
Also I want a greatsword that doesn’t suck kittens to go kitten and then walk home.
As for mesmers, pre patch they felt like cut price guardians and wannabe thieves. After patch they feel like they can compete with the two classes but not both at the same time.
I would support this under 1 other condition:
They bring back all old BL ticket skins for at some point in a year individually (as in one week aetherised, next torment etc) for 1-3 tickets.
I’d prefere 1 ticket and I certainly think it’s a fantastic PR opportunity for all the new players you’re trying to get with HoT.
@apharma
Why wouldn’t you fix a balance problem in one aspect of the game, especially when you could do it without negatively impacting other aspects? Leaving it as is on that argument is nonsensical.
You have yet to prove it is a balance problem with PU. Show me how PU on it’s own is a balance issue as opposed to the torch trait The Pledge.
That’s without you addressing other issues of imbalance in the area you’re claiming it’s imbalanced in. How do we know that the other people are using the same level gear, they’re the same level, they haven’t just been fighting and so don’t have cool downs? What’s stopping them running into a tower and healing. What’s stopping them kiting to NPCs to get “back up”, what’s stopping them rallying off a deer?
How do we define winning and losing? Does running away count as a win or a lose? What’s stopping people from coming to +1 a fight? Are we now going to make up artificial rules of engagement and start balancing around a made up game mode not intended by Anet?
No, I’ve not made any claims about pvp… I’ve repeated claims made by some of you that were used as counter arguments to rolling back the buff, that’s it. Only now are we starting to see you guys talking about a value to PU in pvp… until now, the point has been “nobody takes PU in pvp” and “the stealth bonus doesn’t do anything because it keeps you from capping point”.
Incorrect, no-one said that as far as I remember. They said it was of less value in PvP. They said you gave up team support for selfish defence. They even said that other lines were better for the team however no-one as far as I remember said no-one picked it.
The last thing about point capping is also true, hence why we don’t see thieves doing more than decapping or free capping
But sure, let’s stick with the new line, especially if it’s more accurate. My earlier proposal to Necrotize wouldn’t affect pvp much at all. It would be better than PU was prepatch, it would retain the tactical stealth that’s relevant in pvp while removing the troll aspects that are a problem in wvw.
Why wouldn’t that make everyone happy?
But why change it at all if it’s not a problem in the mode (PvP) we’re balancing around?
Consequently your arguments are it is very strong in small scale roaming however you can’t balance around that because of the following:
- Someone could have guard stacks, the other not, 2500HP and 100 condi and power difference
- Someone could have ascended the other masterwork.
- One can be level 80 and the other boosted to 80, the latter being significantly weaker.
- Non lvl 80s do not have all the traits or utilities unlocked.
- Not all runes and stat combinations are as easy or cheap to get, some of which offer sizeable advantages.
- There is no disadvantage to running away, healing then rejoining (In PvP that costs you)
- There are places to run into to hide like towers to heal, get cleansed, rez and then re-engage.
- Teams aren’t balanced, at any moment a 5v4 in your favour could become a 5v8 against you.
So I’m sorry but you’re arguments just fall flat on their face because it is inherently imbalanced at it’s core.
Now, care to start addressing my point about the torch trait and how that might be the source of most of these high stealth mesmers, seriously run that trait with your PU mesmer and see how much more ridiculous it is. Then run without PU and see how utterly useless that trait is. To anyone with common sense they would say alter the torch trait then see how PU fairs.
Edited: added a few more things to the list.
(edited by apharma.3741)