Guild Wars 2

Not even close to be the worst.

Look at the cash shops from Perfect World Entertainment, any of Aeria Games anime-themed games or just any other P2W cash shops from the “variety” of F2P games out there.
Stuff may be a little pricy but saying it’s the worst is by far an OVERstatement.

I thought that it was 10% decrease in damage if you had 100% crit rate.

Cause it seems to be much more than a 10% decrease if you don’t have high crit.

It’s their game so it’s all in the ToS.~

Just like how among the other things that are normally in the game that are constantly complained about, this is no different .

Pretty cool I must say.

stachekiller.2591:

Maybe a better question is “how do we push the weak players closer to the better”? This zerker nerf is a start. 10%+ loss on DPS for many builds will making stacking the Spider Queen in AC, for example, that much tougher for non-meta groups and they might actually have to fight her in the open. Then they might see how simple the mechanics are and how easy the fight can be when you leave the comfy confines of the stairs. Even forcing players to survive a little longer by becoming aware of group conditions and/or buffs would be a win in many pug groups I have run with. There are too many fights that allow players not to get better because they can stack and survive long enough to beat a boss or a group without ever knowing what the enemies are actually doing. Fixing the AI might be the optimum solution, but in lieu of that I would say reducing damage to extend fights and then open up the trait system to allow constant tweaking might will force bad groups to get better and offer them a chance to do it (at least to some degree) at any time.

If only Spider Queen’s poison field didn’t down in 3 seconds of being hit.

Zepidel.5349:

Removing the zerker meta, or really the ’How can I do the most damage possible" meta would require re tooling every single encounter in the game, and changing the core class mechanics.

if you have been playing for the past… year? you would know the don’t have the resources to even begin the attempt that.

I too agree the devs don’t have the resources to take on such a feat.

Therefore the meta won’t change.

Once every class get every available weapons open, we can explore other options.

or Guild Wars 3.

Well you have to admit… The thief, at it’s core, is fundamentally different that the rest of the classes, being built off of initiative and no cooldowns.

In fact they had a good thing going with the design of the thief. I wonder why they didn’t do something similar with the rest of the classes….

It would be a good idea to not be in the middle of a zerg if you see enemies incoming. When your zerg engages hang on the outer rim and pick off people on low health that are fleeing the “danger zone.”
I find that avoiding the aoe cloud and killing people that fan out too far or that are on low health works. It serves to keep your pet alive a lot longer.

In a way, it makes me glad gw1 players still have HoM-exclusive stuff.

I’m trying to understand why this was moved to sPvP section when this is about underwater combat, in the game period.

maddoctor.2738:

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blakdoxa.7520:

I picked up this little tidbit from the dulfy page on the dev livestream notes.

No more underwater weapon slots
Retiring Capricon, the only map with underwater combat.

Getting rid of underwater combat? I remember back when underwater combat was hyped up to be this awesome, incredible thing no one has ever done before!!

Fast forward to today where underwater combat has been a huge letdown. Honestly it only saw it’s “fair share” of play in sPvP and WvW. Now it’s being removed from sPvP. This shows to me that underwater combat DID NOT go as planned and has basically been scrapped all together.

What are your guys thoughts on underwater combat? Does it need to be taken out of the game? or just what the heck do we do with it?

Underwater combat is horribly balanced in PVP (and downed state is a joke too) that doesn’t mean they could ever remove Underwater Combat from the game entirely, it plays an important role in PVE.

The only map with underwater combat in PVP, Capricorn, was never used in tournaments or competitive PVP, since they are removing that one map, they are also removing Underwater combat from PVP. Nothing to do with PVE

It just seems like anet is backpedaling further and further away from the underwater environment and just not touching it anymore. It stays for the players in PvE/WvW but there are no improvements whatsoever with the majority of changes (emcompasses everything in gw2) focused entirely on having your character on land. Right now underwater relevance only pertains to whether you roll it in fractals of the mists or path 2 of Honor of the Waves. I don’t mention anything about personal story because it’s been tossed to the side in favor of “alternatives.”

Belzebu.3912:

I strongly doubt that.
There are many Personal Story steps, Dungeon areas, Fractal, events, JPs … all bound to underwater content.

It sure need work to get improved … a lot … but still it is too important to be just removed.

Underwater combat seems like a relic of past inspiration and constant reminder of “this could have been awesome” to the devs. It’s fallen far by the wayside with almost none of the fairly recent content we’ve had, having anything to do with the underwater areas.
Kessex Hills, Bloodtide Coast, Sparkfly Fen, Straits of Orr, Mount Malestrom, and Frostgore Sound come to mind for zones not utilised for their sizable underwater portions.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

… Read Again. It’s PvP only.

I already made that point, since I mentioned sPvP.

I’m talking about underwater combat, in the game overall.

I picked up this little tidbit from the dulfy page on the dev livestream notes.

No more underwater weapon slots
Retiring Capricon, the only map with underwater combat.

Getting rid of underwater combat? I remember back when underwater combat was hyped up to be this awesome, incredible thing no one has ever done before!!

Fast forward to today where underwater combat has been a huge letdown. Honestly it only saw it’s “fair share” of play in sPvP and WvW. Now it’s being removed from sPvP. This shows to me that underwater combat DID NOT go as planned and has basically been scrapped all together.

What are your guys thoughts on underwater combat? Does it need to be taken out of the game? or just what the heck do we do with it?

Oh wow! They broke the lyssa runes….

That’s a joke if I ever saw one!

I have to say the asuran racial utilities are pretty strong and useful for a variety of situations. I even use Radiation Field with my warrior for poison/weakness application.

kitten that kitten burns.

Especially on engy.

Alfred Nobel.2914:

Well yes, but, I didnt start a discussion about the linked build, just wanted to show that AH scales with healing power.

Well it’s about both [AH] and [Clerics] and I just used your build to show as a example of why healing power (clerics gear) is no good with AH and that other gear (with little to no healing power) is more beneficial in the long run.

So in a way you helped.

Wanze.8410:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

John Smith.4610:

mtpelion.4562:

Champ farming was a TERRIBLE way to try and make gold. It was mainly for XP, crafting materials, karma, and luck, none of which are impacted by this change.

If you were farming champs for the gold drops… I mean… I don’t even know what to say…. maybe “don’t”?

It’s true that champ farming is by a wide margin not the best way to make gold (not counting TP either)

Champ Farming is not the most economically efficient way to make gold. But that doesn’t mean it’s not the “best” method…for some people.

In particular, it’s clear that for many, farming champs is by far and away the best method. It requires no risk, little effort, and requires almost no attention by the player — this allows people bandwidth to chat with non-gaming friends, watch TV, or even do homework.

I speculate that this is among the reasons the coin from champ bags is being cut: this allows people to champ farm if they want, but reduces the reward for things that require little individual effort.

Regardless, I will never see champ farming as the “best” tool for earning coin, even if it were 10x more efficient than any other, because I find myself bored out of my skull after 1-2 rounds of the circuit. I far prefer to run dungeons/fractals, open world chains, or WvW behind a strong commander.

You make a good point. Its not the best but the most effordless. I agree with this change.

I think the point about champ trains and why people do them has been made.

“Effortless”

-25% combat speed strike again…. Especially since every other class has wide access to swiftness, 25% speed signet, or 25% speed trait. Guardian’s “catching” is the worst among the classes with our high cd cc and limited access to cc. Things like -40% condition duration food (lol, immobilize) and runes of melandru don’t help us either :/

Silv.9207:

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Condition Build can be made. You can use conditions to inflict a “good” damage. But you must always compare your build whit other classes. Necro, Ranfer, Engi, Ele, Thief, Mesmer, Warrior (all the other classes) can mix 2 or more different condition damage source (burn, bleed, poison, confusion, torment). A Guardian can only use Burning.
You can make a good condition build, you can win against someone whit a condition build, but compared whit all the other classes a guardian is not a good condition damage dealer.
To obtain 33% Burn damage, you must spent 30 points in Zeal, the useless trait line ever for a guardian. That trait can give you a lot of good things but nothing about condition damage, only about direct damage. When you read "10% damage against burned enemy" they say “direct” damage. Whit a condition build how much direct damage you hope to do? And on Zeal trait there’s already the trait called Kindled Zeal, that give you condition damage based on your power. The new trait is only a better version of that trait, nothing more, because your only condition damage is always Burning! They don’t make nothing new, only re-make something bad to be more appreciate to players that want to try a condition build.
But if you spent 30 points in Zeal and 20 in Virtues to maximize your condition damage and your ability to apply burn… how do you hope to defend youself?

Why guardian use only 2 trait line? (Honor and Valor)
Why we have low healt and if we don’t think to heal and/or remove conditions we can’t stay alive!

If you play whitout one of that 2 traits (or both) your defence and your longevity fall.
To obtain what? 900 damage x second whit 500 direct damage every 1/5 sec?

Ranger can inflict 2k condi damage x sec and 700 direct damage x sec + pet damage.
Necro and engi can do better. Mesmer can hide while you die slowly (2k damage x sec isn’t all that slowly…) and you die while try to find the right enemy to attack.

Guardian can be a condition damage dealer, but compared whit all the other classes is the worste condition damage ever. Why do it?

Anet is trying to promote hybridization with the guardian but having to go into 30 into Zeal actually cripples any feasible condition build and won’t create any sort of build diversity if it becomes necessary to do so.
If going into Radiance it becomes easy to realize that going direct damage is preferable to condition damage. 300 condition damage is peanuts in regular condition builds (over 1k condition damage, usually) and can easily be brushed off with passive regen.

300 conditdmg is 403 burning per tick (bpt).

With this incomplete build that I’m going to test out come the update I’ll have a theoretical max of 2664 condition damage which is really droppin balls on the condition meter across the classes.

Still 2664 conditdmg is 986 bpt. For being our only condition the scaling is horrible with damage being a bit over double as if you had just 300 conditiondmg (403 bpt+686). With that much investment burning gets to be about another auto attack thrown on when it procs.

This isn’t a very good hybridization attempt at all, as going all out condition damage or getting even half is still no better for burning as if we had just only invested into Radiance or had no extra condition damage at all.

Didn’t they buff Healing Breeze which absolutely no one uses? (spirit weapons lol).

Alfred Nobel.2914:

Altruistic healing does scale with healing power. This build editor knows it and I know it,

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vUAQJAWSlsApeo1CxVI8DNRkVQkYPwIH741jE6QGC-z0BBoNBiaAg+AKLqIasVWFRjVNjIqWnEjUAfLMC-w

Nice build, except you can take out clerics and do much better with less healing power. Which makes no sense right? All it serves is to cripple you with you turning into a mobile buffing turret. You are going to hold the majority of the aggro (toughness, lol), and can only hold yourself up as long as you aren’t being steamrolled by mobs (or players in wvw).
Really. Healing power was intentionally made so bad that you could have all the same traits, weapons, and utilities and do better in full zerker.

Every week.
-Sips tea-

Talyn.3295:

For me personally, No. Signets are never on my skill bar. I don’t like to rely on passive defense like the signet when I could blind, dodge, block or reflect damage.

I would put signets on the list of guardian skills that need to re looked at, right up there with Spirit Weapons.

I agree there. All signets should be looked at for either being to weak or too kitten strong, I’ll try to pick something other than SoJ but it’s really hard. :c

The guardian… That old dust covered relic left to rot and fester in the upper attic.

My god…it needs some fresh air…

I have other toons that I play…but I still try to find some sort of niche for my guardian to belong to. You know since being outclassed by warrior in every way and traits that could be useful for guardian going to other professions….

Don’t you guys think this signet’s passive is just too good, for any and all situations? Across PvE, sPvP, and WvW, I can’t find any good reason to not have this equipped wherever I am…

It’s a percentage reduction that scales better the more passive defense you have (vit and tough). Don’t get me wrong. I love this signet for it’s passive effect but I find this to be limiting my options for utilities….

Any builds with AH are more geared towards boons. It may seem nice to prioritize healing power but the scaling is horrible for AH and it only really good for your healing skill.

Dalanor.5387:

frifox.5283:

Dalanor.5387:

Leeching on zerker groups for faster runs is easier.

and then they come here crying that we kicked them.

Nature with it’s never ending cycles always amazes me.

So these guys want their full clerics gear to hit as hard and fast as zerk?

What does “no” mean.

You guys miss the legendaries are worthless thread?

Actually one would have to go a combination of carrion and settler gear to make it work.
Like this for example.
Staff/GS for Wave of tag burns and leapsymbolwhirl attacks to easily proc the traited PW/VoJ. Remember there’s no point of even activating VoJ after getting PW due to it only affecting passive VoJ.

I didn’t put utilities down but maybe “Save Yourselves!,”Contemplation of Purity and Purge Conditions for extra burn and condit removal.

Also I might add, you can not do damage with burning alone. You’d never kill a thing unless they were stacked with perma weakness, cripple, and chill. You have Fiery Wrath to increase the power damage you do along with slightly high condition damage to supplement it. Of course one can further with with this either stacking might or capping burn duration.

To get any benefit from Ah you actually have to give boons out to your allies.

Otherwise you’d receive no significant unless your running around with full Lyssa runes, “Save Yourselves,” and Contemplation of Purity.

What don’t people understand about making their own parties with their friends or guildies?
Or even making a “LFG anyone allowed, come have fun!”

What’s hard about this?

Think about condition bunker battles.

Now stop thinking.

See? Faceroll.

Power – Berserker, Valkyrie – nerf reduced by high critical hit rate
Precision – Assassin – KO
Toughness – Cavalier – KO
Celestial – KO

This is basically it. Assassins (hilarious that it’s not even mentioned), Cavalier, and Celestial are taking huge hits because they were already pieces without high power. Celestial may be getting a “buff” (lol) but defensive stats will never make up for the damage lost from having reduced critical damage. Overall, the impact on damage will be severe.

Berserker users won’t be affected as much as long as they maintain high crits. The same applys to Valkyrie for those few specs that are able to achieve high crits through traits, upgrades, food, and/or fury.

This “me” thing is annoying…

It would be nice to have if it had a waypoint with no fee, bank, all-purpose crafting station, servant-merchant and a servant-trading post.
Otherwise, it would look nice but serve no other purpose except for an occasional party.

Cassocaster.4576:

blakdoxa.7520:

How does this relevant to this thread?

Since it’s my thread, I find it very relevant and by your response you aren’t left handed. We can personalize almost every aspect of this game, dyes, hairstyles, weapon choices, sex of our toons, profession, what else can we do?

I am asking a rhetorical question as I know that technically it would be very difficult, you’d have to create 2 mappings for every configuration. Personalization is the basis for this game’s attraction AND if you aren’t interested, why did you bother to post in a thread you didn’t think was important?

I do think it is important as for why I posted in the first place.
Personalization…this isn’t some dress up doll game where we try to make our characters as close as to our imagined self as possible.
!!!!! What a great psychological study this could provoke!

But this a game BEFORE all of those nice QoL improvements.
So far this “game” has been more about looks than fixing any of the rampant issues or improving existing features. Hell!! Some things have been forgotten about all together!!

All this effort to make the game look and feel amazing but then you look under the hood and find nothing but a few loose screws and a missing engine.

Nike.2631:

fadeaway.2807:

I want to play a super safe cleric bunker guardian & still have the kill speed of full zerker, because I am sick of seeing “lfg 5 zerkers” and they are not skilled. I think this is only fair.

Thanks.

Honestly, no one playing more defensive builds wants or expects their best time to match that of people playing balls-out full-tilt killify-them-all builds. They just want doing so to be risky enough that its the province of the truly awesome and not the bandwagon presumption of DPS-posers everywhere.

Jeeze… Wouldn’t you like to take some pride — to get some actual respect — for succeeding at something difficult rather than doing what’s the obvious play under the current system?

The combat system of this game along with class (skills, weapons, traits) and monster design don’t really allow for traditional ideas of support…. Like having a healer (healing skill). What should be used (since they are available) are combo fields/finishers, primarily blast finishers with any field. Which people can already do in zerker or similar dps gear.
It’s a great idea to have support regardless of gear but now all of a sudden gear is relevant? Not really looking at healing power gear cause that requires you to throw all your eggs in one basket to become even seemingly interesting as a support gear towards “healing others.” Then there’s giver’s which turned out to be a failure as “boon duration” only affects boons on you and not others as they have their own boon duration.
So, yeah defensive gear won’t ever come to par with zerker gear and I find it unlikely such a change as reducing direct damage is going to be welcome, seeing as people really value their time well spent doing “what they want to do.”

This just seems like a huge overblown “people can’t get along with people” issue…

Edited to put some emphasis on the above part.

They meant for town clothes to mean something at the start of this game.

But they don’t mean a kitten thing.

In fact, it would be more sensible to have characters to automatically switch to town clothes, but that’s not the case….

If game companies listened to their every single customer there would be no games. Period.

What happen to having GAMES be GAMES??

Now we got all this extra kitten like bollywood production story and cinematics, marriage and divorce along with full legal proceedings, adopt a pet/child/monster, or a house with a full family and a 9-5 job in games now….

Why are games replacing real life, instead of being just games???

How does this relevant to this thread?

Why does it matter? and do people even understand the problems and issues the devs have to deal with trying to iterate with the game as it is now It doesn’t add anything to the game. It’s a “nice gesture” but that’s about it!

Just what do people think games are these days???

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

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Dynnen.6405:

Crapgame.6519:

Bah, quote failed. Anyway Dynnen I was trying to say that while I agree with your overall post above I am not really keen on the person you referenced. He is the primary reason why DaOC lost market share and then made it worse by Trials of Atlantis and Master Levels. In other words, he destroyed a PvP game by trying to add PvE to complete with WoW.

Sure, we already ran into some issues with population and even class balance between realms but overall it was a solid PvP game with risk vs. reward. There was a reason to PvP, take keeps, relics, et al.

Anyway – off subject and I’ll bow out Anyone try Wildstar this weekend?

I’d agree with you on the point that TOA caused DAoC to lose players, but it came out in 2003 while WoW came out in late 04 sometime. I think TOA had more to do with internal pressures wanting to expand a part of the game that wasn’t getting much attention, which he has finally alluded to. TOA kittened a lot of people off because they didn’t want an insane grind or new pve content (IMHO).

I disagree with both of you on DAoC, to an extent. People were kittened off because the ToA content made its way into PvP. To compete with those that didn’t have MLs or Artifacts, you had to do that PvE grind. The grind to get to the PvP was horrible enough, then they added that crap into the factor.

TLR: the PvE stuff went into PvP and ruined the game.

On Topic with this thread, what about doing a 30/x/x/x/30 build? Utilizing Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath?

Also, how do you think this would do in solo/small groups?

Supreme Justice is good if you want to fry stuff with the longer duration on activation. Permeating Wrath functions in a way that you don’t ever want to active VoJ
Still a 30/x/x/x/30 would lack so much passive defense. And for what? Condition damage? No way.

Rhomulos.2089:

Considering how well guardians are doing in all aspects of the game, they didn’t want to build on what is already doing great. They specifically stated they wanted to test new waters with more interesting guardian traits, these traits are not to directly supplement the current meta builds, but give alternative routes in different game types.

The condition guardian will add a lot more flavor to the mix of classes we see in WvW and SPvP, while we’ll see alternate bunker specs as well using massive amounts of HP from the Vitality trait. This opens up more build possibilities, making certain lines more attractive if some players enjoyed some of the higher tier minors already, but couldn’t justify going deep enough for them in their build’s goal.

I’m okay with these changes as guardians are extremely strong right now, some would argue OP (in pve atleast) but I would argue that’s more of a content issue than a class issue. Also keep in mind that not all changes need to move a class towards being world-record speed run viable, as that play style is more of a make-shift end game we’ve come up with due to lack of end game content.

So just what do you have to say about the spirit weapons in your amazing guardian build?

Wow this is very good! Not that it restores any faith in ranger but I do see there’s a high ceiling of skill here involved.

Buran.3796:

blakdoxa.7520:

An actual boon duration rune set would be the answer here.

Then players would have to make a decisive choice on whether to take a full boon duration set over another set or mix and match set.

No, is not. I already have 2 armors with this 2×3 loadout, and none of them is extensively used in PvE or WvW, due for PvE you don’t need boon duration, and in WvW Soldier runes are usually better for raid gaming. So, is not like those rune combinations were too strong, too usefull, or unbalanced in any way. But was a viable option for some specific builds (i.e.: healway Guardians).

So after the next patch the effort I spent in getting those runes will be ruined, two of my full set armors will be useless, the amount of viable builds will be nefed (a collateral effect of diniminishing the available options) and you are talking about a hypotetical alternative (which can be viable or not, but in any case will not be available at 0 cost).

Sorry, I can’t understand how can someone defend ArenaNet for their decission of nerfing a underused and underpowered choice. Just makes no sense.

There’s nothing in my post that shows that I support Anet reworking (destroying) mix and match sets over full sets. I always mix runes for either more boon duration or condition duration and would only use full sets for niche builds like infiltrator’s.

Anet created too many useless/niche sets probably out of fear of them becoming to strong. This resulted in the meta using like about 10 full sets and the rest mix and match. It’s pretty bad and with the changes I don’t see things getting much better.

If you go 30/20/0/0/20 for a condition build I can guarantee you’ll be going some combo of carrion/rabid/settler gear.
Because like Silv said you have 0 passive defense…

xFireize.6318:

What do people think about Radiant Retaliation?

Power has 916 base attribute. Is the retaliation scale going to base 0 Condition Damage as if it was 916? If it’s not it seems kinda lame.

This is a horrible trait.
Power can reach in the upwards of 4k
while condition damage can barely breach 2k.

Power is still the best option for retaliation.

These changes seem really pitiful….

I might try a condition spec with Amplified Wrath and that’s about it.

So I’m assuming spirit weapons have dropped out of the game for the most part?

They aren’t even as much mentioned in the changes. No buffs to increase their usefulness in any game mode. Anet says Guardians are in a “good place.” Well hell not even all their utilities are useful… Those spirit weapon traits just seem to take up space that can be used for actually interesting traits.

And just what do we know about spirit weapons???
Are they like pets, minions or mesmer clones?
Do they have any survivability? What are their HP values?
Do they scale with guardian damage or have their own separate damage values?

I mean you don’t see them period and Anet just thinks they are in a “good place.”

Will these utilities ever become useful?

Anything mentioned about spirit weapons? Nope?

Sad.

I bet no one even knows they exist.

Shine some light on this thread!