Guild Wars 2

Can these wisps work like a engineer toolkit so that you hit a ‘wisp toolkit’ (for example of course lol) and it gives you the list of wisps to cast so we’re not wasting all utilities just for the wisps and can slot wisps w/ 2 other utilities and an elite wisp if we wanted.

apharma.3741:

WilnerGW.3275:

Those analysis were perfect! Maybe i didnt made myself clear till now: The problem is not only the DAMAGE itself. Its how mesmers do insane damage with GREAT survivability/desingages.

Finally some coherent and weighted analysis, and not some “L2P noob”

Well I’d love to recheck the video but it’s no longer there.

I’m pretty sure rangers got a lot of survivability in their RF from 1200 range build, I know I did especially with SoS, lightening reflexes, entangle, traited survival skills and GS.

Edit: Oh you even have quickening zephyr to burst people down in 1s from max range, how cute that you’re QQing.

The video is there I just watched it…

First 3 seconds (around 1 second i think it shows the atk from the golem).

To answer the question of getting a quickness burst of rapid fire from distance. How many reflects does mesmer have again? That’s the difference in countering specific burst vs countering mesmer’s burst that , keep in mind, is on very low intervals in a given fight. One reflect, nullifies all damage and even sends it back to the ranger. But you also have a long duration evade, a distortion, etc so really the reflection is probably the best option because you force evades on the ranger to dodge his own RF allowing for an easy shatter setup, of course

Also , wanted to add it’s impossible to burst anyone down with ranger in 1s with long range rapid fire as the damage coefficents on longbow itself wouldn’t allow it even slotting for complete damage modifiers in traits, sigils, control effect condition dmg modifiers. So that statement is absolutely false.

Mesmer greatsword is 1,200 range. You also have a teleport and on-demand stuns , blinds and not to mention a plethora of on-demand defensives. Plus you have stealth. 1,500 range means nothing to these abilities, sorry to burst your bubble, but this fantasy of constantly being at 1,500 range is going to save you is a joke, or else power rangers would be godlike but it’s 100% impossible to continually kite in a given fight with gap closers and stealth. Also, sic’em doesn’t work on decoy as decoy has it’s own stealth buff , so if you slot sic’em , you can still get around it as a mesmer. Sic’em is also bugged too so it’s irrelevant.

Either way, this comparison between ranger and mesmer is literally the dumbest thing I’ve seen in a while on the forums and you’re just grasping for straws really. Every good shatter mesmer knows power rangers are easy food in WvW , you’re very bad if you’re dying to a power ranger in WvW so the argument and comparison is really just dumb. I play mesmer regularly since post-patch and beat top rangers running power with ease, and I just started playing my mesmer again since post-patch , but it’s such a dumbed down class now playing shatter is 300x easier than it was pre-patch.

WilnerGW.3275:

Zerothousand.3089:

This thread is funny. OP says that this burst is insane, but in the video that he provided he was doing the same thing to the other mesmer from 1200 range.

Yes i was doing insane damage to the other mesmer but as you can notice my burst took so much more time on the 1st mesmer than the 2nd mesmer burst took on me. Plus i droped her HP from like 80% to only 20%, while my HP dropped from 100% to 0%.

And yes its just another QQ topic never said its not ;p

You didn’t even drop his health fast, the golem did, did you watch the video you posted? The TC golem hit him with an attack and dropped his health extremely low. Your rapid fire barely even did much to him as he looks like he’s running some toughness/vitality gear as you capped out only at 2.4/2.6k damage with full zerk on RF.

Again, I think 2.4/2.6k is half of ONE mind wrack from a full burst mesmer rotation by the way. This is that comparison of DPS we’re referring to.

Dirame.8521:

abc.5790:

No doubt about it, pre June 23rd meta was not only way more balanced but also allowed the coexistence of unique builds that are no longer available or viable today.

Pre June 23rd there were 4 dominant builds:

-cele rifle engie
-cele dd ele
-shoutbow warrior
-medi guard

These builds were also viable and used by solo queuers who like pvp but not in high tier tourneys. Today, the following are either extinct or a shadow of what they used to be:

-bomb heal engie
-p/p rabid engie
-trap condi ranger
-poison master ranger (ele, shoutbow killer)
-survival condi ranger
-shatter mesmer 4/4/0/0/6
-terrormancer
-high burst fresh air ele

Terrormancer still works, you just wont be gaining a lot of DS.
Poison Master Ranger works and kills eles and Necros. (uses one trap)
Survival Condi Ranger also works, kills Eles or stalemates them. (uses one trap)
Shatter Mesmer still works, in fact, it probably has more survivability than the Stun-Spam Mesmer.

Trap condition Ranger, you can’t go full traps ever again unless you’re fighting random group of people.

Bomb Heal Engie has now become something different. You can burst heal people and yourself. Literally going for 10% to 100% in a few seconds.

Poison Master Ranger works and kills eles and Necros. (uses one trap)
Survival Condi Ranger also works, kills Eles or stalemates them. (uses one trap)

What bad eles and necros are you fighting that let you wreck them in a team or node fight with those bad builds? Try that against Phantaram or Noscoc AND have team viability before saying those horrible builds work. Lmao, Smh

apharma.3741:

Wilner, try using quickness and you get it off in 1s more or less and because you’re so far away most people won’t see till the arrows land.

Stop getting mad because you forgot to check behind you when you decided to try and +1 a fight from a range where they couldn’t hit you.

As WoC said, damage is too high right across the board, even yours if you get with the programme of toughness means almost nothing. Build zerk, keep looking around and learn to dodge the bursts. Then have fun rapid firing everyone down from your safe 1500 range.

Damage is high across the board, but none of the classes have near as much survivability or readily available spike damage COUPLED with that same survivability as mesmer gets inherently from weapon sets + traits like any other class does right now, that’s a clear and definite fact. You can’t deny it. I would say shaving some survivability off of some shatter mesmer builds will solve this. Don’t do much to the dmg at all, but the survivability that comes with the damage is really insane right now. It’s not a surprise mesmer is probably one of the most used WvW roaming classes and tPvP classes right now (even top tier teams are using 2 mesmers now in teams), because it’s very broken right now. Fotm’s abuse what is most powerful, it’s always been a trend and for this reason you’re seeing a spike in mesmer use across the board.

ALSOOOO , to the people saying that he did burst damage to the mesmer as well and unless you watched the video very closely you probably didn’t see he was fighting a blackgate mesmer and the GOLEM to the right of the screen hit that very same mesmer with an attack as they have +100% damage right now due to golem week and dropped his health real low… His rapid fire actually didn’t do much at all as it only capped at 2,400 damage (i think that’s half of ONE mind wrack right now? Yep ). Just pointing that out to the guys saying he was bursting him down before getting +1’d

NEed to be quicker on reacting , but you dodge this one , but mesmers have this burst on very low cooldowns, insanely high burst with instant un-avoidable stuns aside from stacking up stability which you can just invis and wait stability out, lol … Everybody saying things like killshot warrior could kill you fast forget the difference in survivability between a 1shot thief build , 1shot killshot warrior build , completely full zerker warrior with 1hundred blades vs a shatter mesmer right now. Do people have any idea how broken the insp mantra shatter mesmer build is? It has INSANE survivability with good stealth rotation + evades + un-avoidable blinds on shatter (unless you run DS ele / Zerker stance) + invulns and INSANE burst on low cooldowns. What killshot warrior has this? What 1shot signet thief (only thief capable of doing that kind of spike damage) has this? What 1hundred blades full zerker warrior has this? What engi with static discharge has this? What ranger …. wait ranger doesn’t even have spike damage forget that.

The point isn’t so much really the burst damage, it’s the burst damage with many on-demand stuns and AMAZING survivability when comparing that same burst damage with other classes. There can be no denying this, even with thieves right now in this post-patch meta.

Saiyan.1704:

Ario.8964:

Love the quick gameplay but really hate the lack of balance on classes. Mesmer has too much of everything, ele has too much of everything, warrior is still carried by immunities with no counterplay outside of running away, and necros insane transferring ability keeps any full condi build out of the meta. Now I’m not saying necros are op, cause I actually find them to be more balanced than not but the fact that transfers use the original applicant’s condi damage is just too much imo but that’s coming from an engi and thief main so yeah take that for what it’s worth. But I’m seriously getting fed up with Mesmer mantras carrying bad players and ele’s literally being near god mode while still having a significant amount of damage. Once anet starts bringing things back down that need to be I will be happy. Just as long as we can keep the pace of combat up with it.

Edit: Taunt spam from ranger pets needs to leave too. Or at least be blockable cause that’s getting ridiculous too.

As much as i hate Necros condi transfers, I think it’s fair as it adds a bit of counterplay imo. I mean, i’ve applied enough stacks to burned down a small village, only for it to get transfer back onto me. Nothing like seeing your name listed as the highest damage dealt >.<

Wish they kind of would add a bit more of a tell on the plague signet transfer BUT i guess if you land a bunch of important condis on them you know it’s going to come back shortly after and it being a stun break also is another tell so for people who get a stun lock condi bomb combo on the just dodge right after lol

Pretty much if you’re a mesmer or elementalist or warrior who relies on rampage , you love this meta. If you’re anything else, it’s either the same or worse. So it’s w/e

20% scaling off your current bleed dmg (so essentially condition damage). It was 33% in the trait video previews the devs did.

20% dmg per bleed seems nice then you look at necro’s adept trait and it would probably essentially be more dmg: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barbed_Precision , note… it’s an adept and yes, we have a ‘similar’ adept but it competes with more important things and can’t synergize with what it’s supposed to, trap builds. :P

I would actually suggest making hidden barbs all combined in a trait together and making it master tier:

Sharpened Edges + Hidden Barbs combined to ‘Hidden Barbs’ staying in the master spot then put something else in the adept slot. It would allow us to use condi trap builds better.

YEa man i totally agree except I was playing ranger before (Still do jus not as much since mesmer is so good now)

I’ve been playing mesmer too since the update and it’s been too much fun. I play this and ranger pretty much only 2 classes now. Been leaning more towards mesmer now because the inspiration shatter mesmer build is extremely broken. I suggest you try it out, it melts people and i can even take 2v1’s and of course portal across the map if i get into a rough situation to back cap our opponent team. One thing I don’t like about mesmer is they dumbed it down too much , it almost feels boring after a while dominating so i just swap to GS power ranger.

Pretty standard mantra shatter build that everybody is running. Great videos for sure but really this build setup is broken at the moment and everyone is running variations of it.

I run very similar build on my mesmer and it’s hilarious watching people get wrecked.

Good stuff!

Lolll

“Like an animal backed in a corner” aka one ele attunement rotation in 4 seconds does 2x more might generation on nearly 3x larger duration than a “ranger backed into a corner” for 10 entire seconds. SUCH A SCARY RANGER

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Chokolata.1870:

@JC:

There is a very real reason that Ranger is neglected. No high level team plays one. The last time Ranger was usable in high level was the spirit build, but that was almost 2 years ago. Like really, no one cares about Ranger. It is all about Ele, Thief and Mesmer. Perhaps a Guardian and a Warrior. You saw what they even did to Engi in PvP, how they made him far worse then before.

This is cyclical logic. Ranger is neglected because no high level team uses one, which is because they are neglected.

The reason no high level team plays one, is because they are sub par in every aspect for that game type.

I just can’t see how they would just give up on a class and put it in the “too-hard-basket” because they lack imagination with which to improve it. Look at all the other class changes, they are just far and above what Ranger has been given. They also could not possibly just accept that one of their classes will never be a part of the PvP Meta. Ranger is actually perfectly suited to PvP, being a jack of all trades. The real problem, is that ele is a better jack of all trades.

The other issue is Ranger has the least number of available in-combat skills. Ele can get 41, Engineer can have a total of 35, Necro has 20, Revenant will have 20, Mesmer and Guard have 19. Ranger and Warrior get 16. Warrior can swap between their weapon sets twice as fast though and one of our skills is tied to AI that can die. More skills = more utility. We need an Elite trap kit.

" I just can’t see how they would just give up on a class and put it in the “too-hard-basket” because they lack imagination with which to improve it. "

I’m sure they don’t lack imagination , I think they probably have a lot of interesting ideas for ranger the problem is the resources it takes to do such class overhauls and reworking isn’t enough for their team. They will never, EVER , rework the class itself. They will only try to modify existing things to make them work with the ranger which is unfortunate and sad because this class literally needs a complete overhaul/rework entirely through all trait lines. It’s just they simply don’t have the resources to do it. So it will never belong in top tier for this reason and even if it does get buffs to alot of traits/weapons we’ll just be cried about and it’ll get nerfed exactly like spirits / BM and traps w/ shortbow in the beginning of the game.

Yes I understand the situational portion of sword where you can disable auto attack on it and utilize the individual steps to move further with the 3rd string but it’s highly situational and will almost never work against great players. It seems really clunky in general for me but I know for some people they like it the way it is.

This is why I recommended the option of having it as an option to check or uncheck so that it benefits both sides of the 1h sword auto situation.

notorious.9071:

Firelysm.4967:

2ND on my favourite list is shatter nerf which can deal 22k damage on target with 3,3k ARMOR and 26k HP.

I don’t think a 25 might stacked, 3 clone mesmer can can deal anywhere near 20k damage, even against a 25 vulnerability stacked thief.

If you’re gonna post numbers then you gotta be realistic.

Enough realism for you? This happens alot as the combo is EXTREMELY Simple to land in team fights. It’s actually so easy that I, who doesn’t main mesmer but plays it alot was able to get this combo down in a matter of minutes and use it on good players effectively. If I get stunned i don’t even need to use my stun break for burst, I can distort if I get into trouble, invis and repeat the cycle in a matter of seconds after mind wrack goes off cd. Cool stuff! It’s actually fun playing mesmer right now because it feels so powerful. I’m not great by any means, but it’s really dumb right now lol.

BladeBraverBureba.1052:

Substance E.4852:

Malchior.1928:

Substance E.4852:

Upon even further testing it does look like it will not trigger at 100% HP even if you have a soft cc on you such as cripple.

sigh… -_-

Fortunately the chances of you being crippled at 100% hp are slim to almost absolute zero. Although it is still problematic depending on skills, traits, and synergies that Anet might implement in the future QQ.

True but I’m envisioning situations where you lay it down preemptively and then get cc’d inside of it making reaching the edge and getting back inside that much harder.

The arming time is enough that if you run forward, lay it down, heal up to 100%, and then back track to use the cleanse, it won’t trigger with you inside of it if you entered back at 100%.

It also reduces the usefulness of cleansing cc off of allies if they heal back up to 100% but still have a condition on them.

None of these are probably that game breaking but it feels way more clunky now. It’s really what I was afraid of when they said it was going to be a trap. They took a perfect heal skill and made it a lot more awkward for a stronger overall effect.

At this point I’d almost prefer the old version. It wasn’t as powerful but it worked when I needed it to and with no caveats attached.

Why would you use your main heal skill preemptively enough to still be at 100% (thus wasting the entire heal on it), but not preemptively enough that you can’t move, what, 180 or 240 units to get out of the circle before getting rekt?

Condis

I imagine this will get fixed quick, seems like a pretty big thing that can be hugely exploited.

Ok so we saw the revenant with sword today and it’s another class that can move while using sword auto attacks… Why is ranger the only one with a limiting mechanic on auto attack on 1h sword when it could be so much better with movement? I mean I get it, our sword chain has unique mechanics that were coded in a way with specific animations that makes you standing still in place a necessity but then I thought, well does it?

I had an idea, that might be already talked about but what if you had an option for ranger to turn off ‘sticking’ with sword 1h and it worked like 3 regular slashes but same duration as the option with an animation.

So you have in your actual computer settings something like “Turn on ranger sword animation?” with a checkbox.

Checking on: Ranger will be how it is now, giving you the cool animation and the stick in place features for anybody that likes how it currently is, because some do.

Checking off: Ranger will swing the sword with 3 regular swing animation EXACTLY like warrior’s sword auto swings but with the same duration so it’s not any different than with an animation except you can move while doing it.

I think this would actually be very good for helping 1h sword for both people who want it without sticking and people who like how it is currently.

Please anet look at this and take it into consideration.

Thanks

I have lost hope in this class… I play it still because it’s fun but I’m really not waiting for anything. It’s been too long waiting for stuff I’m just over it.

If you’re a ranger and killed a 1v3 while the treb was hitting you then you were playing pve heroes. You may be decent, but don’t try to master ranger if you want to be on a good team because a good team will never invite a ranger no matter how good he is, you would be better off playing and mastering something like mesmer, ele, thief, warrior, guardian.

Taverius.8645:

blitzkrieg.2451:

I noticed if you have brutish seals on and use enlargement , when enlargement trait procs it doesnt give you 3 might.

Hm, I just tested this and I did get the might, can you check at the profession npcs in HotM?

Ah I see it does work, weird I thought for sure I wasn’t getting that might before. Sorry folks!

aDemoNnDisguisE.8576:

Why… well first you need to understand how the free to play model of games work.

In free to play pvp games that are not pay to win there has to be a hook that allows mediocre players to do ok and good players to be great, nearly unbeatable. Why… well, if all the classes can be played well and are made to be effective then what happens is good players will constantly dominate not so good players on ALL classes. This tends to cause those poor players to quit the game because always getting stomped is not fun. And for a similar reason of no challenge what so ever from the scrubs the good players quit as well, and the money train comes to a stop.

And here is where the Necro comes into play and why the devs keep it in the game in a seemingly perpetually broken state. Some of those good players will pick a class like the Necro and do ok to good against scrub players, and bad but not horrible against the other good players.

Those good players on good classes will be kept in the game because they get to beat up on something that puts up a fight but really has no tools to win. The thrill from stomping on an enemy that is helpless is very addictive. Similarly, against bad players on good classes a fight with a good player on a class like the necro can be fun. Both get the illusion of a fair and fun fight when in reality one side is just bad and the other does not get that they are playing the joke class. This keeps both of them playing as well.

And that is all that there is to it… Necro is the class that provides the hook that allows good players on good classes to win, which they like and bad players on good classes to do bad to ok depending on the Necro they are fighting which they like.

Finally, just sit back for a moment and consider how much damage the top player on a top class like Mez or Ele or … really any class other than Necro can do to a run of the mill bad player.

Next consider how much damage the top Necro player on their best day can do to a bad player.

In both situations the bad player will of course die, but in one of those situations they stand a real if small chance of winning. Can you guess against which class that is…?

If you’re suggesting necro can’t 1on1 wit your last paragraph you’re kittening insane. Both power and condi AND cele are very good in 1on1 situations, now necro gets trouble in +1 situations, as does every class.. I think you’re actually confusing power ranger with necro , a class that hasn’t seen an ESL tourney (or any tourney for that matter) in a while and since there already is a necro on the top NA team, alot of the idiocy being spouted off by bad necros immediately becomes redundant and disregarded. Necro works well with certain comps, and very well.

Does necro need peels? YES, EVERY class that gets trained does. There’s only 2 classes that can get cleanly away without strategic peels and that would be thief and mesmer and maybe engi with stealth.

Raif.9507:

Your signature fits.

No, it’s been 1200 since it was fixed from the bug which made it go 1500. That was almost 2 years ago.

The elementalist community is SO friendly =))))))))

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Everything OP said is correct. Mesmer is fine as it is. The big success story of the trait revamp in terms of making a former joke profession in PvP strong and viable. Only two things need a slight change. BD blind shouldn’t go through evade. CS stun cooldown should probably be ten seconds not five. Other than that, nothing needs to be done.

Former joke? Almost every team had a mesmer pre-patch and you had to actually be good to play mesmer pre-patch. Yes, mesmer was 100x harder to play than it is now, but it was STILL a part of the meta and now it’s essentially a braindead faceroll class now with the burst setups and survivability mixed with evasion and invulns and of course the uniqueness of portal and IoL so now teams have 2 mesmers each commonly. I think the only time mesmer hasn’t been in the meta was when spirit rangers and necros and it was a HEAVY condition meta because shatter would melt during this time because no condi clear but then it became cele meta and shatter mesmer came back due to boon stripping and burst damage on tankier targets.

Do you even watch top tier PvP? People like this really just need to not comment on topics they have no understanding of. If you really think mesmer is in a good spot right now you are as delusional as the rest of them.

Extreme.8350:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I didn’t say, reflections are necessary for a mesmer to deal with lb rangers. They just can trait for it, if rangers were actually a problem.

pew pew ranger is pretty much the same thing as those redicilous burst builds
also way easier to do and less squishy so they have no reason to complain.

Did this guy REALLY just compare shatter mesmer to longbow ranger?

Oh boy…

Constant whining from necros yet noscoc continues to dominate with 70k+ gems from winning tourneys. So many bad necros.

“You also note that each time The Abjured loses in a tournament, it’s because Nosoc didn’t get constant peels. If a Necro isn’t babysat, they fold with nothing they can do about it. The same is not true with any other profession, where build choices can open up an avenue to survive.”

This is with any class , engi , thief , etc… Classes getting trained need peels whether it’s a necro, an engi, thief, ele , etc that’s just called strategy in top tier because many top teams switch targets for burst according to situation .. He also runs cele now and can handle himself quite well now (you did watch the last ESL right?) and the team synergy he runs for his build is very nice btw.

TheDevice.2751:

I mean unless its that class they need to have for when they want to beat something.

No doubt the devs are just constantly looking for fun ways to buff other classes while they sortof in the back of their minds try not to forget about that necro class. lol.

I just don’t understand this development team whatsoever. It just boggles my mind. I don’t get it lol.

Mesmers can do INSANE damage while also have INSANE mobility and INSANE stealth and blah blah blah.

oh but necros cant have any of that because…. uh….. because! Cuz they do other stuff! Like uhhh…

Wait what do necros do? lol hahahaahaha Seriously. What the hell do necros do? Whats their job? It can’t be to keep enemies from escaping. We all know thats not what their job is. Anyone can get away from a necromancer.

What do they do? Please. Anet can you tell me. I’m done trying to figure it out. I have no clue what this class is supposed to do anymore. What is your idea of balance because it’s not what any of us think it is.

Mesmers have no risk and are high reward. They can escape anything, have no cap to mobility, can deal stupid amounts of damage even while stealth…. What?

Necros are STILL the ONLY class in this game that requires outside help to function.

QQ Tell me I can’t figure it out since I started playing this class a year and a half ago. I don’t understand what the point is. Why can’t necros have oodles of mobility? You can’t come up with a reason.

Necromancers are not really a class. You never see them in tournament play. You don’t see them high up on the ladder yet Anet does everything in their power to keep them terrible.

They actually nerfed necros BEFORE mesemers. I’m just idk.

Waiting for revenant. Tired of playing the most underwhelming class in the game since devs seem to have no inspiration involving it whatsoever.

Noscoc in the abjured team (NUMBER 1 TEAM IN NA AND HE CONTRIBUTES ALOT TO THE TEAM) comp, enough said. He wrecks with necro, why can’t you? The kittening by necro would be fine if there wasn’t Noscoc who has set an example for other necros and has shown time and time again that necro is viable with both power and condi builds, but all you do is whine and complain about your class and how it’s not viable. Get good , seriously.

Soryuju.8164:

Speaking from a biased Guardian perspective (no experience playing an Ele, so not going to comment on that):

Yeah, burning probably needs to be toned down, but when the nerf inevitably hits, it would be really nice if Guardians got something to compensate. The popular consensus in the Guardian community right now is that while our burn build is a fun, fast killer, it’s gimmicky and not suited for high-level play. Our power Meditation spec is already falling out of meta, and “Feel My Wrath!” is likely going to be nerfed as well, so if we don’t get any buffs to compensate, we’re just going to be stuck with basically the same bunker build we’ve been running since launch.

I’m well aware that Guardians are still relatively well-off compared to some professions, but lots of us are getting sick of never having any new builds in the meta. Our Spirit Weapons and Signets aren’t viable, there’s no dedicated Consecration build, our Symbols don’t work very well, and until this last patch, we were also struggling to put together a condition build. Regardless of how well off we are in the meta overall, losing a new playstyle like the burn build is going to hurt the profession as a whole and seriously demoralize its community. When the hammer drops, I sincerely hope that there’s some consideration for that fact.

Eh, you act as if you don’t have any other good builds. Guardian has amazing bunker builds and they have amazing burst dmg builds with medi mixtures esp with hammer in teams. Burning getting nerfed doesn’t mean you need to be compensated for kitten.

Taunt going through evades, fixed in a week

Blinds going through evades, still yet to be even looked into

I know they’re 2 diffferent things, but it’s the principle of game breaking bugs being overlooked in certain areas and then immediately fixed in other areas. This game’s balancing is just kittening TERRIBLE.

smh

Extreme.8350:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Anyone defending burning from guardians and eles are the same people defending mesmer in it’s current state.

No it really i’sent these ele players are the same as the ones who try to get mesmer nerfed.

Mesmer will be nerfed you’re absolutely crazy if you think it’s going to stay the same way it is right now. So will burning.

Anyone defending burning from guardians and eles are the same people defending mesmer in it’s current state. It’s kittening broken , a condition that commonly is 40k of my dmg in a given fight (and yes, we’re cleansing, it’d prob be double that if we had less cleansing) is absolutely ABSURD. It’s just these 2 classes , guardians it’s not as bad because their build has nowhere near the survivability as elementalist but still insanely high burn application from these 2 classes.

Sounds good, thanks guys!

Are mesmers able to use shatter abilities while dazed/stunned? I dazed one and he was still able to get off distortion? I’m not sure if this is balanced if this is the case, aren’t skills supposed to be prohibited while stunned or dazed?

Thanks

“WvW players are not more reliant on build/stats/food/etc than PvP players are reliant on build/team comp/rotation. I would even say, the opposite is the case.”

The argument isn’t whether or not who is more reliant on build. It’s a simple distinction between raw skill and fabricated skill. Food/op stat sets/ascended jewelry/guard buffs vs Raw build. In wvw it’s 80% build / 20% raw skill , in pvp it’s 40% build/60% raw skill roughly due to lack of amulets/food/guard buffs that don’t even come close to the stats you have in wvw. It’s not an argument of whether who’s more reliant, just a matter of distinction between knowledge and raw skill of the class between the 2. 2 totally different mindsets when making a build. I’m referring only to fights, not the game mode either.

But there’s very rare exceptions, you have Triggerless / Kronos Xnm 2 thieves who I don’t think have lost a fight to any top tier player except Magic Toker and those were more in their favor as I watched those duels personally in a private PvP arena.

But alright

borya.2964:

blitzkrieg.2451:

[…] they count dodges , they don’t random dodge, they don’t double dodge.

This is so wrong, really. Even the best pvp players can waste their dodges or dodge twice in row, virtually dodging nothig. In fact, it’s quiet usual.

Actually it’s not, you need to practice not to waste dodges against top tier players because they count them. You’re a fool if you think otherwise and you’re definitely a fool if you think top tier players waste dodges half hazardly or intentionally. You simply can’t in top tier so your entire statement about top tier players (have you ever even fought one before? im starting to question this from your statement alone) is completely false.

You can go to twitch and watch top tiers and watch them stream, they even make fun of players who do it constantly and you will never see them waste a single dodge because they can’t afford to. Now, this isn’t explicitly saying WvW players can’t do the same thing, it’s just almost all of them don’t. Which is sad.

Couple things you’ll need to understand before even attempting to fight a top tier pvp player from Abjured/TCG or wherever is this:

1. Don’t waste dodges and count their dodges appropriately and if they use Energy sigil which is easy to figure out from first encounter alone
2. Condi cleanse priority – most wvw players don’t even know this, and most low-mid tier pvp players don’t either, but it’s huge, and definitely if you run a condi or cele hybrid build for embedding strong conditions over weak ones.
3. Environmental awareness for +1’s
4. Pretty much understanding every trait for any common build that exists per class, you need to play them, understand them and understand the core weaknesses against a top tier player. Normally, even seasoned wvw duelers haven’t even touched more than 3 classes , this doesn’t slide in top tier and simply won’t work.

Most wvw players don’t even cover half of these , no need to when you have stats and food to make up for the spaces that you’re lacking.

The only cheese builds in PvP used in top tier is cele ele and insp mantra shatter mes and even THEN you can’t just roll one up and expect to beat a top tier player because they know everything about the build and it’s weaknesses. Also, cele ele is only godlike still right now because of burning damage. It’ll be nerfed, whether it’s the application of eles/guardians or burn dmg across the board who knows but it will for sure be nerfed down somehow.

Good changes, increase the radius of the heal on moa as well , same with the fern hound’s heal

aspirine.6852:

That myth is still active I see, that pvp players are better than wvw roamers. They are way better in one thing, that is win pvp matches, that does not make them better against any good wvw roamer.
Also i watched Potatoveg on stream this weekend and I thought he handled himself more than fine. Nice build he has.

Actually, I watched it as well and he was getting wrecked by necros, thieves, mesmers all 1on1 on node and he brought no team support at all. Understandably, mesmers are broken and thieves can just blind spam you and necros have so much LF uptime it’s gotten ridiculous too. He was doing good in team fights but that’s literally because the other team didn’t bother to focus him at all which is just dumb as he didn’t have signet of stone and would have been such an easy kill to focus – one backstab would force a disengage on him and put him out of the fight but they didn’t because he was playing against low MMR players and they were focusing bunker guardians/warriors instead of him and allowed him to just wreck fights – a good team would focus him, kill him and make him a target to ressurect so they could cleave the team as they do it.

He did well though for what the build allows , but the build doesn’t allow much really. Offhand axe is terrible , the pathing on path of scars needs to work alot better , I can simply sidestep the return of axe 4 and do it 75% of the time anyway just by adjusting position constantly in a fight so i dont even need to dodge it. It’s just a silly weapon , the retaliation is a joke on it too , needs to grant protection and retaliation OR make it where you can use it while moving (like they ended up doing with engineer’s shield reflect skill, they use to be standing still for that one).

Props to potatoveg man, just good mesmers , thieves and cele necros and good d/d eles will wreck that build no matter skill level you are with this build.

He did have GS and was able to assist in decapping points but that was about it, and those weren’t even mid to top tier players, they were low tier pug randoms in a low MMR.

Crapgame.6519:

aspirine.6852:

That myth is still active I see, that pvp players are better than wvw roamers. They are way better in one thing, that is win pvp matches, that does not make them better against any good wvw roamer.
Also i watched Potatoveg on stream this weekend and I thought he handled himself more than fine. Nice build he has.

Welcome to the digital age of kitten envy….

Basically a few people are debating about what ‘roaming’ means and how it is this on this server and that on that server then it is something totally different in this format of play compared to that. Whatever really but what we do know is that sPvP is confined to a map of set size with objectives and stat constraints. On the other hand WvW is not and allows PvE stat creep along with upscale play. While stats or ascended creep can assist in ones play it does not make or break a fight. But again, see my opening statement and you will see my view on it. All it brings to the table is more kitten waving…

To say either format of player is better is just sheer ignorance.

Yes, ascended stats and individual armor gear and runes not available in pvp that are available in wvw and food makes or breaks a fight easily or else those very pieces of gear and runes and sigils wouldn’t cost so much (generosity being 140g+ isn’t because of pve, it’s for wvw). +40% or -40% food ALONE changes the tide of a fight, especially when you’re talking about warriors.

I’m not saying wvw players are stupid, it’s just most are reliant on the stats before the skill. When you win in a fight wvw it’s usually a case of having an OP build due to the above things I mentioned as opposed to raw player skill like you have in PvP without those things.

gs isn’t THAT great of a defensive weapon , the #4 locks you in place, yes you get ranged block but it is that, ranged, which means you’ll be using 2 utilities for defensives for just to gap close (#4 then #3) so you get nothing else for a little bit except auto atk for evades and a stun which most carry stun breaks regularly now because of mesmers and good players will hardly ever get caught in a stun -> maul rotation ever, way too telegraphed..

i dunno, the defensives don’t justify the very low dmg output imo esp when going full zerker

and some might say in pvp it’s good for mobility to get point to point, it’s really not… you have thief for this , or ele (LF + air 4, FGS, etc), or mesmer (portal, blink) best point to point roamer in the game with shortbow #5 and shadow step and the ability to port up through physics, coincidentally 3 classes that can also manage 300x better in team fights and provide unique team support in the form of cc and dmg and for ele, cleansing and healing on top of the dmg output and combo fields.

this is in pvp though, in wvw you have more space can #3 gs out major range and swap to longbow etc etc but in pvp it’s a much , much different story.

Comparing mesmers to rangers is some of the most ridiculous kitten I’ve ever seen, but yea man mesmers are kind of insane atm, you can still kill them of course but wow they’ve really lowered the skill necessity on that class by ALOT. Used to have to be good to get rewarded on that class, now it’s just simple. So crazy how different shatter is prepatch vs postpatch. They really dumbed the class down hardcore.

asura w/ condi build . op as kitten inwvw

Ranger is balanced the way it is entirely FROM pvp. So your class is being represented and tweaked based on that ‘5%’ (again, much more than that but I’ll go with your mathematics on it) that you speak of so you might want to re-think how you look at ‘95% of the game’.

Look at spirits, they are the way they are because they were being used within that ‘5%’ (again , going from your mathematics of course) that you speak of and then got nerfed, same with BM.. Whether you think it or not , this class is balanced from PvP not WvW, this is why those trait preview change videos were done in heart of the mists, not edge of the mists. So when you talk about PvP vs WvW and viability of builds in general, your builds are literally the way they are as a result of balancing for competitive PvP, again that “5%” that you’re speaking of.

Anyway, I’m stopping this silly argument because it’s getting no where really.

It should also be used at the beginning of the f2 cast like taunt currently is. It would make it alot more viable and on demand than it currently is.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

blitzkrieg.2451:

FrownyClown.8402:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Golden age lol … These builds are good against wvw bads who have little to no experience fighting actually good players, but you will not come close to a top tier player in tPvP with any of these builds.

They’re good though for low to mid tier play in WvW , nice videos!

top tier players aren’t gods. Individually they are really good but so are alot of people. They work really well in teams and that is where top tier players shine. Melee ranger builds actually do provide a decent amount of interupts and could be useful in a team setting. The stats available don’t seem quite right to make a decent build though.

Nobody said top tier players were gods, but they’re better than 95% of the players in WvW. Most WvW players are just really bad, even the ‘good duelers’. OP Stats , ascended gear, food , etc etc doesn’t always equate to skill. Roamers and duelers doesn’t make you good since most just rely on stats in their build to do 80% of the work for them. A bunch of thieves and mesmers and d/d cele eles and sometimes a condi d/d ele (aka +40% condi duration food reliance ) who act good but really just aren’t… I’ve dueled just about everybody good in WvW and don’t come even close to top tier players technically in both 1on1s and team play combined.

No offense to WvW players but the reason why you’re not as good as pvp players is because they practice technical strategies, the first thought in a top tier player is the utility of the build, not the stats , food, ascended jewelry, etc….

It’s amazing how much easier it is to fight in WvW because of stats than it is in PvP as a ranger. This doesn’t make me a better player, rather just being carried by stats and fighting against much less quality players in general. Defender runes alone, perplexity alone, etc… There’s many reason mid-top tier pvp players are just better fundamentally than WvW players will ever be.

Who cares?

At least 95% of players will never experience playing against a top tier PvP player, so they essentially do not exist as a part of the game and therefore their skills are completely irrelevant.

Then you can never say your build is truly viable. This is why ranger doesn’t exist in top tier. But you can ignore good players and keep fighting wvw players and then say your build is good when it truly isn’t against actually good players, doesn’t matter to me.

That is like saying that my 150cc Kart is not viable in Formula 1 or that because I’m only winning races in state events, that I’m ignoring Michael Schumacher. They are totally different game modes.

Since no top PvPers ever come to WvW and a vast majority of people cannot possibly spend the amount of time they do training etc, there is no reason to ever even make the comparison. Like I said, they essentially do not exist in the game. You will never see one while roaming in WvW, so if you win every fight you come across? Fine. Are you Michael Schumacher? No, you have a life outside the game.

Nobody cares what top tier PvP players do.

Sure, that’s fine but then you can’t say your power build is viable (back to stage 1 of this pointless online debate)

My argument isn’t whether or not a good player will beat a bad player whether it’s on either end of the spectrum, it’s more so the mentality of what you practice with what you’re given in pvp as opposed to what you’re given in wvw.

Most wvw players can’t roam without equipping food or some unrealistic stat setup with ascended jewelry mixtures to achieve a supremely optimal build, which is alright but this is exactly why pvp players are technically better usually in 90% of the cases between equal skilled ww and pvp players. mid to top tier players have most likely played every class and know everything about each class , they count dodges , they don’t random dodge, they don’t double dodge. You can afford to do those mistakes in wvw. You don’t get -40%/40% (50% with toxic crystals) condition duration passives or leeching food to carry you while you’re fighting in PvP. This is all I’m saying, for this reason generally and in most cases, seasoned pvp players are wayyyy better than a seasoned wvw player.

The mentalities are just different. It’s really not a diss actually to wvw players, your goal really isn’t to fight players, it’s to blob and fight massive numbers and fight for keeps so it’s not a surprise wvw players aren’t technically as good as a pvp player of equal caliber, but that’s kind of the thing. Only those ‘5%’ (there’s much more than that anyway in pvp) exist ONLY in pvp for a reason and not WvW.

Yea but that’s not how any roamer is in reality , almost all roamers are just roaming to fight people, and hate zerging and almost never give intel. I’m just saying this as a roamer who has been on about 10 servers ranging from tier 1 to tier 4 and grouping with other roamers from those very servers.

It’s just how roamer has always been considered in WvW across most servers. Roamers never associate themselves with zergs or help zergs out… They just roam in ~5 group, with a few people or by themselves.

Anything above that is considered a havoc or zerg busting group then anything above that is considered a zerg or large group.

Scouts generally are called people who roam and look for #‘s of zergs/enemy locations or goto a keep and scout for #’s of enemy forces.

I’m not sure there’s really a definition of it anywhere, it’s just how it’s kind of always been lol

The name roaming in the sense of wvw is roaming in small group skirmishes or roaming by yourself because they despise zergs. This is what roamer is considered in this game. What you’re referring to is a ‘scout’ but roamers are much different than that.

Roamers generally HATE zerging, therefore they roam and look for equal fights or duels.

Oak da Vite.9054:

@blitzkrieg and FrownyClown:
You cannot compare PvP and WvW. There is much more freedom and variety in the open world. That is why there are different demands to a good WvW build than to a good PvP build.
Skillwise there is no difference. The percentage of good players will be about the same in WvW and PvP. The best roamers will beat the best PvP-players in roaming and vice versa. Being prejudiced in this topic is stupid.

@Topic
The melee also works great in a zerg. Damage + Support + Tankyness.

I love the new possibilities for frontline ranger. I’ve been playing ranger as frontline support now for a long time and the damage of my build was buffed by a huge amount.

It is great to see how good a melee ranger build works while boarding the enemy pirate ship. With a good build you can kill an enemy berserker ele with one maul while being tanky at the same time.

" The best roamers will beat the best PvP-players in roaming and vice versa. "

This is so far from the truth and you have no idea what you’re even talking about. Roaming is just a word for running around looking for fights, so essentially you’re referring to fighting in which case the best pvp players would absolutely, 100% demolish the best ‘roamers’.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

blitzkrieg.2451:

FrownyClown.8402:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Golden age lol … These builds are good against wvw bads who have little to no experience fighting actually good players, but you will not come close to a top tier player in tPvP with any of these builds.

They’re good though for low to mid tier play in WvW , nice videos!

top tier players aren’t gods. Individually they are really good but so are alot of people. They work really well in teams and that is where top tier players shine. Melee ranger builds actually do provide a decent amount of interupts and could be useful in a team setting. The stats available don’t seem quite right to make a decent build though.

Nobody said top tier players were gods, but they’re better than 95% of the players in WvW. Most WvW players are just really bad, even the ‘good duelers’. OP Stats , ascended gear, food , etc etc doesn’t always equate to skill. Roamers and duelers doesn’t make you good since most just rely on stats in their build to do 80% of the work for them. A bunch of thieves and mesmers and d/d cele eles and sometimes a condi d/d ele (aka +40% condi duration food reliance ) who act good but really just aren’t… I’ve dueled just about everybody good in WvW and don’t come even close to top tier players technically in both 1on1s and team play combined.

No offense to WvW players but the reason why you’re not as good as pvp players is because they practice technical strategies, the first thought in a top tier player is the utility of the build, not the stats , food, ascended jewelry, etc….

It’s amazing how much easier it is to fight in WvW because of stats than it is in PvP as a ranger. This doesn’t make me a better player, rather just being carried by stats and fighting against much less quality players in general. Defender runes alone, perplexity alone, etc… There’s many reason mid-top tier pvp players are just better fundamentally than WvW players will ever be.

Who cares?

At least 95% of players will never experience playing against a top tier PvP player, so they essentially do not exist as a part of the game and therefore their skills are completely irrelevant.

Then you can never say your build is truly viable. This is why ranger doesn’t exist in top tier. But you can ignore good players and keep fighting wvw players and then say your build is good when it truly isn’t against actually good players, doesn’t matter to me.