Guild Wars 2

Lux.7169:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Lux.7169:

I’ve recently had a lot of experience with this while playing on the Chinese servers (3s latency during the best times).

Regardless of the 3s+ delay in every action I was still very successful (180wins 3 losses from yolo Q’ing into tpvp). Of course a lot of it had to do with my experience playing on NA and then versing the inexperienced Chinese players, but regardless I think the advice is solid:

It comes down to knowing very common openers, rotations, and the general flow of combat. It’s not hard to reliably anticipate the future of a battle and the more familiar you are with match-ups the better you can predict and react to those actions before they take place, or in this case, while they take place. Knowing when you should burst, but then understanding that with your 2-3 second delay the burst won’t take place for that delay and so it’s all about timing, even when you’re not really interacting with the up-to-speed actions from the enemy.

That’s how I managed to combat high ping ~400-2,700 ping on the chinese servers.

Lux also dc’s intentionally/logs off when kitten goes south in solo que in NA. ^^

Pretty amazing that I keep a 62% win ratio by doing this with over 1k games played. Maybe I should teach people.

Mhm, you’ve done it alot in solo que and the sad part is you’re not even that good lol and keeping a ratio for the leaderboards is an utter joke in this game, so mentioning this means absolutely nothing.

People should really quit making the sword 3 nerf out more than what it really was. It was a bug fix and it hurt, but it wasn’t that big of a hit. It’s still a very viable weapon and still amazing in alot of areas.

“sword 3 still works, it just has to be used more thoughtfully then just sending it out whenever you please.”

I think what Chaos said pretty much describes what everybody was doing before because it was bugged and didn’t work properly. People just randomly threw out the 3 clone half hazardly with no risk because even if it died, all you had to do was remember the place you shot the clone at and you’d be fine and since it was on a 9 1/2 second cooldown traited you’d have it back up almost immediately. Now it takes some thought behind when you need to actually use the skill, and people are kittened about it.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Definitely definitely go vote for our man Supcutie and our other man Helseth! Some of the best and most helpful Mesmer out there.

I still have the video of our 3 hours of Supcutie beating me up and telling me what I was doing wrong. =D

Same, both great mesmers who actually play the class well. Voted for both.

Mesmer is still viable in many aspects of the game , including gvg’s. The amount of crying is unreal but on a much serious note, anybody who even takes balance by anet seriously anymore in this game has issues anyway. Alot of classes has seen nerfs, even more than mesmers. I think maybe the only class that has gotten a positive buff to nerf ratio is warriors and that’s because they were complete and utter kitten and quite literally ONLY used for PvE for the first year of this game.

Buffing and nerfing and bug fixing, anet is bad at… Get used to it and quit complaining. This game is made for casuals, if you think there’s any in depth pvp potential for this game at this stage, you’re only deluding yourself.

Supcutie.2538:

Okay guys, Version 2 is out! Check the original post for details!
If you think I have earned it, consider voting for me as a North American All-Star for Gamescom!
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/allstarsvote

Thanks for the support everyone!

Voted , good luck and thanks for the awesome guides!

Jackums.3496:

Carighan.6758:

Jackums.3496:

You mean like the Thief’s Infiltrator Strike with no cast time that can be repeatedly used due to Initiative, on the already-most-mobile-in-combat profession in the game?

Perhaps Steal is worth mentioning, too?

Just that something is ok in context X doesn’t make it ok in context Y.

No, but in this “X” and “Y” context, it is.

The Mesmer would not even be remotely close to over-powered if iLeap was a teleport. Please enlighten me as to how that would be problematic. The only spec that would benefit significantly from such a change would be shatter, which is mediocre right now in every aspect of the game and could use some buffs, anyway.

I think iLeap teleport would be very good. The one problem with mesmers is their builds are great in some areas of the game, horrible in others. PU for example is great in WvW for roaming and dueling and good for dueling in PvP. It’s complete kitten in tPvP and GvG in WvW. Shatter is good in tPvP and GvG , complete kitten in 1on1s (it’s doable, but it’s really not meant for it and anything with evasion and condi uptime will decimate it without even trying, example: bunker condi rangers). How do you solve this without making certain specs completely over the top in certain areas of the game? iLeap teleport would make builds like PU op, but it does bring viability to setup guaranteed burst for shatter specs (which need buffs atm).

Lol no offense, they’ve turned this game into kitten with horrid balancing so even trying to take this game seriously enough anymore is pointless so even caring about anet balance at this point is just dumb. PvE will always be priority #1 because that’s where the money and demand comes from and in this game with no trinity, you can roll up anything and be decent in PvE – even rangers. PvP cares have long since gone once they realized they couldn’t turn Gw2 into esports and make further money off of it and WvW is just another game mode for casuals to run around and bang on buildings and chest pump server pride and has no esports value/potential – not even GvGs.

Thieves have plenty of counterplay, you’re just not good enough to know what it is yet. Another thing, mesmers are built a specific way in this game, thieves counter how mesmers are built in this game completely because they can cloak and dagger and the steal is immense.. But cloak and dagger is only good against this type of play. In order to change how thieves counter mesmers would be asking to change how both the classes work entirely. Some classes completely counter others, that’s nothing new in this game.

Stealth has no counter play other than AOEing a random spot and hoping you hit the target By design, stealth in this game is extremely flawed with very little to no counterplay whatsoever. If you’re complaining about counter play whilst also playing a class that uses stealth. Then I really don’t know what else to say.

Serious Thought.5394:

Aggreeing with Blitz above me for the most part. Thief is one of the best (or best, everyone says so but even Thief has to submit to the Rock<Paper<Scissors) dueling classes.
Thief also has the absolute highest bleed and poison uptimes (high condi damage, reduce heal).
Thief has greatest access to dodges, gap closers, gap openers, torment.
Thief has second lowest survivability (Elementalist has less, but they have many more options that don’t get spammed).
Thief can be group support and a great team waste basket (you must be “good” to play a class with spammable skills because once those skills lose spammability, you die- its very counter intuitive, but it makes sense when you think about it)
Warrior has greatest access to burst skills
Warrior has the best fail-safe nets (you can mess up all day and still come out alive)
Warrior does not have to worry too much on what traits and stats to pick
Warrior has to operate on cooldowns (some are long)
Warrior can support team

I’m running out of seperations, but you get the idea. One is for X, one is for Y. X and Y are nearly equal if skill is equal, but they will never be- so X and Y are not equal. Hope I helped.

The sarcasm is cute. But only bad players think like this.

Look at Caed, then look at Anas Tarcis. They both do extremely well for their team and are highly valuable to have on their team. Both serve 2 different roles because they’re different classes with like I said, 2 different roles. You gotta be good though and have skill to be effective, something which appears that you lack entirely.

BlackDevil.9268:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Veruah.5302:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Maybe you guys are the ones who don’t understand the playstyle and are getting mad because Anet isn’t conforming it to your incorrect notions. PvP is the one format Anet actually balances around, I think they generally know what they’re doing better than a bunch of randoms with questionable experience in the class.

You guys sound like the Smash players who complain about Sakurai “ruining” Smash by catering to casuals and making it less hardcore when it was never a hardcore game to begin with. Just because something happened to turn out the way you liked one time doesn’t mean it was intended or in conformity with the overall vision.

I’m curious, what is Anet’s “overall vision” then for the mesmer? Unless you are actually an Anet employee posting off an Anet forum account it seems you would be right alongside of us in this “bunch of randoms.”

Also, this is a product that a business sells to customers. If a significant amount of Toyota owners were like “Hey, Toyota, we really, really, don’t like how the GPS in the new Corolla is laid out. It negatively impacts our driving experience and I am less likely to buy another Toyota automobile in the future because of this” and Toyota considered them just “a bunch of randoms” somebody would get fired. I promise you that.

I’m not the one complaining about it, I’m perfectly happy with the buffs mesmer has been getting in recent patches. You guys are the ones complaining that Anet doesn’t know what they themselves want with the mesmer, in their own game.

And hey, if you don’t like it, quit the game and stop supporting it with gem store purchases or whatever. Maybe a programmer will get fired when all the mesmer players are clearly personally and deeply offended by this massive gamebreaking nerf will follow you and someone will get fired and you can be all like “see that iLeap nerf ruined the entire game for everyone”.

Or more likely no one will care because honestly no one should care.

You don’t understand the way forum work right? People give their opinion which, as they mentioned many times before, should be listened to. You are the only one who is annoying those who give their opinion about the fix.

Which buffs? There are no buffs the last 10 patches for mesmer, only nerfs. What the kitten are you talking about? It’s kittening lame what you are doing. Just go away seriously.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Powerful creative choices aka guaranteed teleport and stun break every 9 1/2 seconds attached to a weapon skill that wasn’t supposed to function like that in the first place.

I wonder if all classes got these kinds of guaranteed creative choices would mesmers be mad?

1. Mesmer has little to no stability.
2. Mesmer has poor armor and average hp, weak to conditions.
3. Mesmer is supposed to be the master of ‘’confusion. With this I don’t mean the condition but the confusion on player. Of course guaranteed teleports, which you can rely on are 100% fitting with the mesmer class even if there is no clone to swap with.
4. No of course mesmer shouldn’t be fine with this because other skill weapon sets on other classes are actually worked out good. Unless mesmer that needs at least 3x a nerf to make it ’’balanced’’, because obviously everyone was running sword in tpvp…. ehhh.. no

You’re just like Guanglai Kangyi, kittening clueless.

Clueless because I’m able to accept when a bug has been fixed and not cry about it? Ok, thanks.

Everyone runs usually staff/gs in tPvP by the way, and this wasn’t nerfed because it was being abused or everybody was doing it. It was a bug fix because it wasn’t intended.

PandaBear.7510:

I would be ok with the whole “It was a bugfix because the tooltip stated you have to swap places with your clone” arguement if..

What do damage skill facts being updated/fixed have anything to do with the entire functionality for iLeap being bugged and not being what the original tooltip was intended for? These are 2 entirely different scenarios. One shows intended damage (the tooltip shows that the skill did damage) , but the damage was fixed – the functionality of the skill was intended in the tooltip though regardless of the damage not being correct in every scenario you made an example of. This is not the case with iLeap. The iLeap bug wasn’t what the tooltip intended at all, as a matter of fact, it completely was the opposite of what the tooltip intended.

A. It’s not intended to be a stun break.
B. It’s not intended for you to be able to swap clones with a clone that has already been destroyed.

Like I said, all of those tooltip examples you just quoted are meaningless because they all are correct in what the skill function does, because the numbers were incorrect has no relation to the bug fix for iLeap.

I’m really confused by your entire post all together. You tried to relate skill facts being updated/fixed to what would have to be an entire skill re-working if they were to update the tooltip to fit what the bug was allowing them to do. Poor argument on your part all together.

Powerful creative choices aka guaranteed teleport and stun break every 9 1/2 seconds attached to a weapon skill that wasn’t supposed to function like that in the first place.

I wonder if all classes got these kinds of guaranteed creative choices would mesmers be mad?

The first thing to realize is the game isn’t about 1on1s BUT if necessary thief can , and will continue to be the best dueling class though so if you’re losing to a warrior in solos (ESPECIALLY with shadow arts), then you need to get better at the game and learn warrior mechanics maybe.

Thief does extremely well in group play as well when you play it right.

Warrior and thief serve 2 completely different roles, ones a heavy class that can tank more and have more general utility, ones a medium armor class with high burst damage and support in taking out target classes almost instantly, group invis, constant blind uptime, high daze uptime for enemy heals in team fights (huge), etc etc. Keep in mind also when you blind a warrior in a group fight thats using hammer, you’re not just avoiding dmg for your entire team, you’re avoiding CC for your team and preventing condi removal on the warrior (95%+ run CI) for your team to stack even more to kill them even faster.

In short, l2p thief please and know it’s role in this game both in group and solo play.

Lux.7169:

I’ve recently had a lot of experience with this while playing on the Chinese servers (3s latency during the best times).

Regardless of the 3s+ delay in every action I was still very successful (180wins 3 losses from yolo Q’ing into tpvp). Of course a lot of it had to do with my experience playing on NA and then versing the inexperienced Chinese players, but regardless I think the advice is solid:

It comes down to knowing very common openers, rotations, and the general flow of combat. It’s not hard to reliably anticipate the future of a battle and the more familiar you are with match-ups the better you can predict and react to those actions before they take place, or in this case, while they take place. Knowing when you should burst, but then understanding that with your 2-3 second delay the burst won’t take place for that delay and so it’s all about timing, even when you’re not really interacting with the up-to-speed actions from the enemy.

That’s how I managed to combat high ping ~400-2,700 ping on the chinese servers.

Lux also dc’s intentionally/logs off when kitten goes south in solo que in NA. ^^

another chump choosing the easy way out, even though they both support 2 different roles entirely in the game

No, RaO at 40 would be insane broken.. with boon duration you can get up to 30 seconds of stab uptime. Maybe 90 seconds? It does need to be shortened though for sure.

It would have to be done with all classes who are AI based (mainly ranger but also the optional necro minions, guardian spirit weapons etc).

Zerker gear and high cleave is the way to go in PVE. It’s quite simple.

Ranger might generation isn’t great, but it’s not impossible either. I’d run something like geomancy/battle and strength runes and mighty swap of course.

00644 w/ bird pets. Giving constant might to your birds for some higher damage hits (although might doesn’t scale too well with bird crits it still makes a difference). I personally like to not load dmg into my pets via traits and try to get as much condi application as I can.

axe/dagger – geomancy/battle
sword/torch – doom/battle

Synergizes well , constant poison uptime and with offhand training you’ll have a good deal of evasion as well and you’re stacking roughly 14 might I think consistently to yourself with 20% boon duration on top of the strength runes and mighty swap although I haven’t tested it yet. 15 second pet swap also helps in keeping the might generation up via mighty swap.

Might be worth checking out and test , ultimately though I think maybe a hybrid bm build with rabid and carrion mix or something with +40% condi food/33% lifesteal on crit with blood sigil will be a solid choice too. Maybe something like 03614 or 04604 OR 24602 with keen edge but then you’d moving more off the BM aspect. Traps obviously would work too I think, one thing I don’t like about traps is you generally run with 1 stun break. I like having atleast 2 if I’m roaming or dueling (lightning reflexes/condi signet) so I’m not sure. You may be able to do trap/spirit hybrid too for insane burn uptime (04640) but with that you’re losing out on might generation via mighty swap.

The new food definitely opens up options for sure!

The +40% condition duration/33% lifesteal on crit food i think is the biggest one for rangers as it could open build diversity in trap builds coupled with sigil of blood and earth and krait runes.

1. It was a bug fix, but yes, they need to fix everything else with the skill too if they fix one of the bugs, specifically one that helped the players be more viable. Why not fix the ones that negatively impact the player all in one run?

2. Mindstab needs to be a cast on the move, there’s not reason why it makes you stand still , just silly. Please make it to where you can move and cast at the same time , adds fluidity to the skill and makes GS overall a better weapon. Radius should be increased imo, maybe 240.

selan.8354:

Ross Biddle.2367:

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

lol no we dont we use necros thief squad and maybe 1 mes for veil at the start in a lot of guild that are good in gvg. and im in tier 2 so yeah. thief>mes. maybe in 20v20 u can afford 2 mes but in 15v15 u use maaaaybe 1 mes and 2 thieves a couple of eles and the rest is heavy train. but honestly engi is taking over the ganking in gvg’s lately way more with the thieves.

What guild would ever use engi in a gank group? What the kitten lol. I watch [Agg] play consistently. They run 3 mesmers at times but usually 2 in their gank with 2 thieves. I watch [NS] gvg consistently, they the same. I watch [EP] gvg consistently they the same. [Ark] is the same. Similarities between these? All top tier GvG guilds. [Agg] is probably the best GvG guild in the game currently and arguably with [NS] as they’re sort of neck and neck. They run multiple mesmers in their gank. Please don’t try to spill mis-information. Just because some random kittenty guild is running 1 mes and decided to run engi doesn’t automatically make it viable or good. Also, necros belong with the train because wells are op to counter train, and the warriors peel while guardians blob – what necro would run with the gank, and what guild would put an engi in their gank? Wow

Yeah Selan. Realize your opinions are not blitzkrieg’s, and therefor any views you hold are the wrong ones. All guilds blitzkrieg rates are the very best and any you’re in are just some random kitten guilds. Please realize the master is in the room and bow down.

Blitzkrieg’s growing arrogance aside. My guild runs a mesmer or two in our pick team. It’s pretty standard practice to use a veil before initial engagement. Shatter’s good burst but personally I don’t think it’s the best option. The best pick team is about composition and you can do better than a standard shatter mes imo.

But who cares. None of this changes the fact that iLeap needs revision. That the clone needing to be alive for swap is a bad choice. That the mechanic conflicts with other mesmer features. Tooltips are nothing. Good design choices and a sound view of the meta are what matters.

hahah very very true ross. i couldnt have said it better.
.haha yeah my guild sure has fun farming all those u just mentioned blitzkrieg. btw we dont run a mesmer.

but back on the topic. i leap is terrible in its current form.its very very hard to actully swap places now with your clone.clones just die to quickly so ileap needs heavy rework.

You farm [Agg] and [NS]? Lol, please… They’re the 2 best GVG guilds in the entire game and since [Agg] is quitting, [NS] now is pretty much the best GVG guild. Btw, what guild are you on selan?

Guilds I’ve been on and have played mesmer/guardian for: [Agg] , [HOPE] , [VK] , [RET]

My main is ranger, but it’s not viable as much as mesmer/guardian in wvw so I run mesmer mostly nowadays. All shatter.

And yes Ross, the argument on iLeap needing a rework is what needs to be discussed, that and why 35 negative mesmer bugs still sit in the forum.

Regarding GVG compositions, what needs to be discussed is why 80% of the raid force consists of warriors and guardians moreso than why is there only 2 mesmers. Some classes just don’t fit the style of GVG formats. Some perfectly fit the style of GVG’s (warriors/staff ele/guardians). Necros only work because of this fact, so their existence in GVG is predicated on the fact that warriors/guardians are OP in GVG formats. Mesmers barely fit gvg’s, while engis and rangers don’t fit the style at all – they’re build for smaller group roaming (mesmer is good in this format too). GVGing is just one format in a game mode that caters to a small group of classes. It seems like from the discussion you’ve been having is, you want the same presence as warriors/guardians , to be able to tank like a heavy class, blast finishers like a heavy class , stability uptime like guardians/warriors but you’re not a heavy class, you’re a light class with specific unique roles to what you can do, Fay calls it veilbotting but I’ve seen 100’s of GVG’s and have been in enough to know that mesmers do much more than just veilbot. Yes, veil is an important skill much like a guardians hammer blast finisher is an important skill, much like a necro well is a unique skill, much like a warrior’s immobilization to setup burst is a unique skill but those skills don’t make the up the only reason why they exist in GVG’s…

Benjamin.8237:

The Mesmers are angry at the “bugfix” because we created an official list of 35 bugs, none of which have ever been addressed. Instead they fixed this “bug” which no one has reported, and has functioned since the first beta weekend event as such. It was most likely a tooltip error on their behalf, but they “fixed” it.

I doubt that, it says swap positions with your clone. If the clone is dead , how do you continue to swap positions with it? They probably fixed it because it looks like the bug lied in it saving the position of the clone even after death for you to teleport to it and use also as a stun break after the clone was long dead but who knows. But I do agree, although it’s really not specific to mesmers in that bug fixes are randomly and oddly fixed for each profession. At the time empathic bond (when it never transferred to your pet and just removed the condition entirely even though the trait said it transferred them to your pet) was fixed, there was roughly 25+ bugs listed in the ranger forums, yet they chose to fix that – that bug also existed for a very long time as well , of course not 2 years long but 6months+. It’s really common for anet to do this unfortunately. In short, anet balancing and method of bug fixing is probably the worst I’ve seen with an MMO in the history that I’ve played them and I’ve played alot of MMOs.

PvP – Shatter sword/focus gs or gs/staff are still viable (yes, even after the ileap bug fix). I wouldn’t necessarily run portal in hotjoins or solo que, players aren’t smart enough to use it effectively but if you want to create plays yourself then by all means run it just don’t expect people to use it effectively. For more organized team ques portal is insanely useful.

WvW – Shatter specs for GvG are viable or you could run PU in GvG for distraction as your dmg is hindered a little bit (burst dmg mostly, consistent dmg is still quite good even running PU but you play a more distraction role as opposed to gank/snipe role like if i you ran shatter). For roaming you’d probably run a more defensive spec like PU Condi or power still works flawlessly. Your hard counter is thief, so that’ll really be the only problem you’ll end up facing roaming as a mesmer (or another good mesmer ^.^). The 2 best roamers at the moment in WvW are thief and mesmer followed by engineer, elementalist , warrior and the list dwindles down from there.

PvE – I don’t pve , not really sure … I think they’re still viable but warriors/guardians/ele are more optimal for PvE from what I’ve seen.

We can literally argue tool-tip semantics all day long. The point is , and the reality is, they did not intend iLeap to work in the manner that it was being used for. It was a bug, and as such it was fixed. Arguing about it at this point in time makes no difference to what will happen at the outcome of the argument. He tried to pull some ranger description updates in which the skills weren’t even updated in the way he was trying to place an argument, they just specifically defined that the skill was aoe when it already had skill facts for aoe and it being aoe is working as intended and the other skill he mentioned literally wasn’t even a description change. He tried to say relate these minimal updates 1 being a skill fact update and 1 being a confirmation of existing functionality to iLeap which wasn’t intended to be a teleport and stun break after the clone died. These are literally different scenarios and his argument , once broken down like this becomes very invalid and a dumb way to approach it. Sorry , but it was a very poor attempt at trying to portray a reasonable argument, but it really just makes no sense as the 2 situations are completely different. If guild wars 2 came out and adjusted the tool-tip to say “Swap places with your clone, swapping works after your clone has died” then yes, you’d have something concrete and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation/argument. But they didn’t, they fixed it, because it wasn’t intended for that. So here we are…. What should really be argued is why this was fixed when there’s 30+ negative bugs that hinder the class that have been mentioned for a very long time, yet the one that gets chosen is a bug that helps the class after 2 years.

Wyrden.4713:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Swish.2463:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Not that I’m going to argue with you here Blitz but here’s were your infallible “white knight” argument and stance completely fall apart..

Taken from the Wiki’s update notes from July 1st. Important notes are bold.

Ranger

Updated skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Updated pet skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Entangle.png
Entangle: Updated the description to better match its functionality.
Signet of Renewal.png
Signet of Renewal: Added a radius skill fact.
Quicksand.png
Quicksand:
Corrected the order of condition skill facts to match similar skills.
Updated the effect for this skill when used under water to better match its area of effect.
Sun Spirit.png
Sun Spirit: Fixed the description of the spirit buff to remove the might on hit chance.
Winter’s Bite.png
Winter’s Bite: Fixed the description and icon of the pet buff to better match its skill functionality.
Drake:
Bite (drake).png
Bite: Updated the animation to be a bite attack instead of a tail whip when under water.
Coral Shot.png
Coral Shot: Added a pierces skill fact.

I’ll just leave this here.

And, if you were still confused..

TL;DR
Your argument is now invalid, carry on Fay.

Yes, you know what they edited out Swish?

Entangling Roots (Old): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangled foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.
Entangling Roots (New): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangles foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.

They added the duration fact to Entangling Roots (20 seconds) – that’s it.

Winter’s Bite (Old): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.
Winter’s Bite (New): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.

They added a skill fact to the weakness part that says (Unrestricted). They also adjusted the graphic for the skill – didn’t even change it completelythey just adjusted it.

—

So what exactly in the description did they change?

I think instead of just reading patch notes you should know the classes you’re talking about.

As I said, if they intended it to work like it did , they would change the tool-tip , not the skill and bug fix it.

he even pointed out the thing he meant by adding it like this ._.

I adjusted my reply

Swish.2463:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Not that I’m going to argue with you here Blitz but here’s were your infallible “white knight” argument and stance completely fall apart..

Taken from the Wiki’s update notes from July 1st. Important notes are bold.

Ranger

Updated skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Updated pet skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Entangle.png
Entangle: Updated the description to better match its functionality.
Signet of Renewal.png
Signet of Renewal: Added a radius skill fact.
Quicksand.png
Quicksand:
Corrected the order of condition skill facts to match similar skills.
Updated the effect for this skill when used under water to better match its area of effect.
Sun Spirit.png
Sun Spirit: Fixed the description of the spirit buff to remove the might on hit chance.
Winter’s Bite.png
Winter’s Bite: Fixed the description and icon of the pet buff to better match its skill functionality.
Drake:
Bite (drake).png
Bite: Updated the animation to be a bite attack instead of a tail whip when under water.
Coral Shot.png
Coral Shot: Added a pierces skill fact.

I’ll just leave this here.

And, if you were still confused..

TL;DR
Your argument is now invalid, carry on Fay.

Yes, you know what they edited out Swish?

Entangling Roots (Old): Entangle your foe. They are immobile until the vines are destroyed.
Entangling Roots (New): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangled foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.

They added the duration fact to Entangling Roots (20 seconds) and adjusted the aoe description, but it always showed the number of targets it intentionally is supposed to hit and it always showed the immobilized and bleed conditions correctly in the tool-tip. Lol, exactly as intended….

Winter’s Bite (Old): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.
Winter’s Bite (New): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.

They added a skill fact to the weakness part that says (Unrestricted). They also adjusted the graphic for the skill – didn’t even change it completelythey just adjusted it. They literally didn’t touch the description, only the skill fact in the weakness part of the tool-tip.

—

I think instead of just reading patch notes you should know the classes you’re talking about. You make yourself look like an idiot.

As I said, if they intended it to work like it did , they would change the tool-tip , not the skill and bug fix it. If you want to show definitive proof in the tool-tip anywhere that shows they intended iLeap to work as a stunbreak and teleport AFTER the initial clone has died (how do you swap places with something that no longer exists?) then by all means, let me know. Until then, your argument is invalid and yes…. Fay you can carry on now

New food will help hybrid ranger builds out i think- +40% condition duration and 33% chance to steal life on crit all in one food.

Chrhal.4983:

blitzkrieg.2451:

There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down. You need the frontline more than necros. But yea, mesmer and necro thief and staff ele serve a unique purpose while warriors/guardian have a general purpose that’s unique to what they can do, if mesmers didn’t do anything other than being in gank then you would have just thieves, which doesn’t exist because it doesn’t work. They’re not being tagged along for nothing and they’re not included in the gvg format because people feel sorry for them, they provide a role and a unique purpose to the gvg.

Your argument is that mesmer doesn’t belong in the frontline/train, of course it doesn’t , it would die, it’s the exact same with thief and staff ele and it’s not because it doesn’t provide anything, its that it literally can’t survive in those train pushes. Staff ele doesn’t even run in the train and necro BARELY runs in the train.

Lol, have you ever gvg’d before?

Wow really? This is the kind of attitude that make people hate the forums. Well in your other posts you seem to praise the top guilds in GvG like [Agg] and [NS] (your words). Maybe it would be interesting to have a look at this thread:

http://www.gw2wvw.net/topic/agg-meta

In short (20v20): 6 guardians, 4 warriors, 1 d/d elementalist, 4 necromancers, 3 staff elementalists, 1 thief and 1 mesmer.

What you dont seem to understand is that necromancers together with staff eles provide a very vital part of the GvG, AoE damage. But since you most likely know a lot more about GvG than I do (because lol I have never gvg’d before) I will ask you this question:

If thiefs also had veil, what would you pick for the focus team (gank squad as it seems to be called in NA)? I know what I would pick.

Oh and by the way: “There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down”. /blitzkrieg.2451

I tend to disagree…

They ran 2 mes against TA (eu team aggression), 2 mes against NS just the other day in the same day. You can see it on Chemsorly’s stream but yes their typical setup may be that. Still doesn’t change the fact that mesmers provide a unique role and they did provide a unique role far more than just being veilbots in the gvg’s against TA and NS. They did quite a bit actually.

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

The tooltips clearly tell you what the skill was intended for.

Yes…the mythical infallible tooltips that are corrected and changed and modified in droves every time there’s a patch. Yes, these are definitely things we should be basing opinions off of.

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Linda Shors.5629:

The old ileap added considerable depth to mesmer play, the change removes it and nerfs mh sword. Was sword in need of a nerf? Was anyone complaining about swap? Is there any downside to keeping it as was, looking at the state of the game right now??

If not, revert the change. If yes, then tell us what it’s supposed to accomplish. And fix some real bugs, please…

blitzkrieg.2451:

It was never meant to be used as a teleport to avoid damage, stop trying to make it out like it was. It’s meant to be a lockdown mechanism via immobilization and gap closer because sword is a close range weapon, that’s the skill’s intent and that’s what it was mechanically designed for by the devs.

You keep saying this, but the truth is no one knows what they originally intended…because they never told us. If you have some source, feel free to post, otherwise stop making unfounded assertions.

a.) Many tooltips only give the basic description; you have to work out for yourself how they really act under different situations. There was nothing obviously “broken” about swap; if it wasn’t also meant to be used defensively, why does swap break stuns? Why can you phase retreat up a cliff?

b.) Sometimes they change the skill to match the tooltip, other times they update the tooltip. No way to tell what they intended from the tip…

c.) At this point, 2 years later, their original intent hardly matters. This is how it has been, and any change to ileap should be treated as a design decision.

The tooltips clearly tell you what the skill was intended for. You switch places with your clone, but if the clone is dead, who are you switching places with? You can’t switch with something that has been destroyed because it no longer exists. This is why they fixed it. It’s not rocket science.

For your #3 point, I find it funny because for a year and a half, empathic bond didn’t actually transfer conditions to your pet when it was supposed to for rangers. For guardians Pure Of voice removed more conditions than it should have and was fixed. Thief’s trait from acro gave fury / might and swiftness randomly when it wasn’t supposed to. The list goes on really.. All fixed, all got backlash, bug fixes occur randomly and sometimes a year+ after they’ve been known. It’s anet’s silly and kittenty way of dealing with bugs. They just never seem to fix bugs that hurt the class detrminetally at all or a 30+ list of mesmer bugs post wouldn’t exist. Honestly though, bugs exist with all classes, if you go to any profession forum you’ll find a bug list as deep as the mesmer one. This isn’t anything new, I’m sorry that it occurred because I ran shatter for months and I used this sometimes to avoid damage, but I knew it was a bug and knew it would be fixed just a matter of when.

It’s not the end of the world.

DaShi.1368:

You can still stun break on the skill.

From my above post:

not listed as a stun break either in the tooltips, and it still is even after this bug fix.

Fay.2357:

mikeew.8607:

In closing I would love to hear the remarks from someone from Arena Net regarding what there reasoning is behind this patch with the so called fixes they have made for Mesmers specifically and what they plan to do in the what I would presume would be very near future to circumvent a mass halt of people playing/leaving this class/game.

I’d love to hear it too, but I won’t and neither will you. Firstly, it’s fourth of july week, so at the very earliest a response would be given next monday. Secondly, when in the entire existence of this game have developers explained the reasoning behind random nerfs like this?

“Random”… It was a bug that allowed mesmers to use this skill as a guaranteed stun break instead of what it was intended for (not listed as a stun break either in the tooltips, and it still is even after this bug. also, how do you swap places with a clone that doesn’t exist? this is why it was fixed, if you ask that question you’ll understand why it was fixed – it goes against the very nature of the skill’s mechanic and what it was intended for) on a 9 1/2 second cooldown traited. It baffles my mind how mesmers thought this wasn’t beyond broken other than being completely biased towards their own class. I’ll ask this like I asked Chaos archangel. What if warrior’s had a bugged skill that allowed them a stun break on a 9 1/2 second cooldown traited? Or Engineer, ranger, or any other class? Thief did have one without a cooldown, it wasn’t even a bug and it was nerfed a long time ago – want to know why? I’ll let you guess why.

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down. You need the frontline more than necros. But yea, mesmer and necro thief and staff ele serve a unique purpose while warriors/guardian have a general purpose that’s unique to what they can do, if mesmers didn’t do anything other than being in gank then you would have just thieves, which doesn’t exist because it doesn’t work. They’re not being tagged along for nothing and they’re not included in the gvg format because people feel sorry for them, they provide a role and a unique purpose to the gvg.

Your argument is that mesmer doesn’t belong in the frontline/train, of course it doesn’t , it would die, it’s the exact same with thief and staff ele and it’s not because it doesn’t provide anything, its that it literally can’t survive in those train pushes. Staff ele doesn’t even run in the train and necro BARELY runs in the train.

Lol, have you ever gvg’d before?

I don’t think you understand.

You bring necros and elementalists because they output high damage, boon corruption, great cc, water fields, cleansing, regeneration.

You bring mesmers because they can press a single button to activate veil, and then hope they aren’t completely useless in a pick team.

Ok, that reply you just made verifies you have never played in a GvG. There’s no point continuing this conversation. Good day!

There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down. You need the frontline more than necros. But yea, mesmer and necro thief and staff ele serve a unique purpose while warriors/guardian have a general purpose that’s unique to what they can do, if mesmers didn’t do anything other than being in gank then you would have just thieves, which doesn’t exist because it doesn’t work. They’re not being tagged along for nothing and they’re not included in the gvg format because people feel sorry for them, they provide a role and a unique purpose to the gvg.

Your argument is that mesmer doesn’t belong in the frontline/train, of course it doesn’t , it would die, it’s the exact same with thief and staff ele and it’s not because it doesn’t provide anything, its that it literally can’t survive in those train pushes. Staff ele doesn’t even run in the train and necro BARELY runs in the train.

Lol, have you ever gvg’d before?

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

yeah already leveled a necro to 80. at least i can be viable in wvw and not be a veilbot with tons of ai bugs.

Necro isn’t that viable in wvw… It has no survivability, no mobility and you’ll need more peels than you do with a mesmer. Just saying :P

Haha what.

GWEN. x, x, x, Necromancer. You have massive amounts of aoe damage, massive amounts of aoe boon strip/corrupt, a very large health pool supplemented by death shroud that’s constantly being regenerated in a big fight. You’ll have permaswiftness in a group, and that’s all the mobility you need. Necro is part of the meta. Mesmer isn’t except for veil.

Yes but you need peels, and even more than a mesmer as you have no stun breaks which is why necros are the priority target in a group fight or zerg fight. Necro doesn’t exist in the meta in pvp (1 necro out of all NA teams) , and it barely exists in gvg formats and ONLY because power wells are op as kitten against melee trains, the problem is , you have no survivability so yes, that’s why necro only ever works in a format where you have a huge amount of classes supporting it but your argument is silly because it’s literally the exact same thing for mesmers except mesmer can peel for themselves for the most part because the only thing mesmer needs is condi pulls to keep him alive or peels from a thief in the gank group (it’s called distracting to burst , distract with a mesmer, bait and then burst the opposing team’s gank) hence why necros would need alot more peels than a mesmer does. Besides, this has always been known and is why necros and mesmers are in the same group in that they both do 2 very specific and unique things for a guild group / gvg. Is there a problem with that? Want to know what doesn’t exist in this ‘meta’ you’re referring to? Rangers or engineers.

Right now the gvg meta consists of this: Warrior , Guardian melee trains guardians blob while warriors semi-blob and peel for necros/staff eles and ganks if necessary, Staff ele area damage and denial , Necro melee train busting and heavy well bombing, Mesmer and thief in the gank groups. If you should be mad about any representation, it’s why is the gvg group consisting of 80% warriors and guardians? As far as it looks in a standard gvg meta, mesmers/staff eles/necros/thieves are all in the same boat.

Right now wvw roaming meta consists of: Thieves, Mesmers both taking the cake on this one as they make the best roamers, Engineers, Elementalist and then maybe Warriors/Ranger in that order. Necros dont exist roaming because the things mentioned above.

In short, you have absolutely no idea what you’re even talking about.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

The reason why this is such an outrage isn’t necessarily whether or not if it was a bug, it’s with how brainlessly it was handled:

• Swag Captain has only been playing Mesmer for a week and noticed the ‘bug’ with iLeap. How did any testing dev miss this for two years? I don’t believe they did. I believe it was intended and the tooltip was misleading.

• I use this example a lot, but the original concept of “combos” in the first Street Fighter wasn’t intended. It started as a bug players exploited in the game and was such a positive improvement that it became part of the system when Street Fighter 2 dropped. Just because something is a “bug” doesn’t mean it has to be removed, it should be taken into consideration of what the bug is actually doing beforehand.

iLeap’s previous functionality made it a more creative and skill-reliant ability, and now this “fix” encourages spamming it as quickly as possible. I refuse to believe that with things like a bugged out iWarden, Illusionary Elasticity, porting through walls, ileap pathing, and the other 20+ actually crippling bugs we face, that this ileap fix became a real priority. What annoys me is that if any of the balance devs actually played the class they’d see what a silly change this is.

“Bug” or not, they could’ve just as easily fixed the tooltip rather than changing the skill.

People try to make having a guaranteed stun break on a 9 1/2 second cooldown when traited artistic and all about skill ceiling when the reality is that no other class (besides thieves when #2 was a stun break but nerfed a long time ago) has such a low cooldown for a stun break attached to a weapon set. It baffles my mind how people thought this was alright and not bound to be fixed, it baffles my mind also how long it took them to fix such an obvious bug (it didn’t even say stun break in the description but it is). How do people not see how broken the ability was in this regard? Are people THAT biased towards mesmer? Imagine if warrior had a guaranteed stun break attached to it’s weapon set on a 9 1/2 sec cooldown, an engineer, or ranger. You have to think about how powerful it is before just throwing your arms and yelling nerf – it was a very very obvious bug, yes it took them a long time to fix, but it was bound to be fixed. I remember when I first realized it was a stun break and also worked after the clone died (because i asked the question how do you swap places with a clone that’s already gone/destroyed?) and told myself that it would be fixed just a matter of when.

Now that it’s fixed, i really think they need to prioritize the 30+ bugs that are related to the class that have been in the threads since beginning of the game. But it’s anet, they fix only the positive bugs that helps the class and ignore the ones that are extremely detrimental to the class. It’s like that with every class it seems not just mesmer. Horrid balancing , horrid bug fix prioritization.

Curunen.8729:

Shattered concentration and portal – the two pillars keeping mesmer afloat in pvp.

Taking Sw/x plus something (GS or Sc/x for example) – 4/4(0/0/6) requires assistance from the team to survive because 12s BF cooldown means you will get hurt.

2/6 has no great way of busting bunkers, but stands up a little better in solo survival and vs thieves because of 9s BF.

Now ileap is borderline useless, how is this acceptable? Please don’t say roll staff + gs.

I can appreciate its role in “high level” tpvp, but the fact remains this is the only, very specific spec that is made to work by good players – it is standing on a house of cards at the moment.

Shatter mesmer needs buffs in more sustain somehow, mostly condition removal that can synergize well with the standard shatter trait setups because any condition removal you can get traited makes you sacrifice either alot of damage from either spectrum whether its in domination or illusions. PU is fine and phantasm builds are fine aside from the AI bugs of course, but as they stand as tested builds, they’re fine. Any mesmer having issues playing as PU or phantasm AI related build literally just needs to get good, I get it with Shatter mesmer because it is one of the highest risk builds you can run in this game at the moment, but it works when played right but still needs condi removal sustain but keeping it’s dmg / boon stripping utility (it is a team spec, not a 1on1 spec after all).

selan.8354:

lol no we dont we use necros thief squad and maybe 1 mes for veil at the start in a lot of guild that are good in gvg. and im in tier 2 so yeah. thief>mes. maybe in 20v20 u can afford 2 mes but in 15v15 u use maaaaybe 1 mes and 2 thieves a couple of eles and the rest is heavy train. but honestly engi is taking over the ganking in gvg’s lately way more with the thieves.

What guild would ever use engi in a gank group? What the kitten lol. I watch [Agg] play consistently. They run 3 mesmers at times but usually 2 in their gank with 2 thieves. I watch [NS] gvg consistently, they the same. I watch [EP] gvg consistently they the same. [Ark] is the same. Similarities between these? All top tier GvG guilds. [Agg] is probably the best GvG guild in the game currently and arguably with [NS] as they’re sort of neck and neck. They run multiple mesmers in their gank. Please don’t try to spill mis-information. Just because some random kittenty guild is running 1 mes and decided to run engi doesn’t automatically make it viable or good. Also, necros belong with the train because wells are op to counter train, and the warriors peel while guardians blob – what necro would run with the gank, and what guild would put an engi in their gank? Wow

selan.8354:

yeah already leveled a necro to 80. at least i can be viable in wvw and not be a veilbot with tons of ai bugs.

Necro isn’t that viable in wvw… It has no survivability, no mobility and you’ll need more peels than you do with a mesmer. Just saying :P

selan.8354:

lol trust me i played mes in gvg in wvw in every single game mode and i have played them pretty much since headstart. sorry but there is barely anything left from what mes used to be. and no we dont even use mes anymoer in gvg’s. once ina while they want a shatter mes but thats it.everything else mes is going bottom of bottom. if they would at least fix the bugs then id see the light….

What, all of the top tier GvG guilds use atleast 2 mesmers in their snipe group – that is a fact because it works extremely well in conjunction with thieves to snipe out targets. I know plenty of good mesmers who are in those very guild groups and would tell you flat out how effective mesmer is in their role in the makeup of their composition. If you want to talk about professions with no representation in wvw for gvg/guild roaming, look at engineer or ranger but I won’t go there because then we’d be going off topic.

The truth is, regardless of this sword bug fix, mesmers are still represented in top tier gvg / guild roams in wvw. mesmers are still great in wvw roaming and besides thieves you can say they’re arguably one of the best wvw roamers still. mesmers are represented in top tier pvp (one even is currently in arguably the best tpvp team that exists right now out of both NA and EU combined) , mesmer is still good in pve. The amount of backlash because of this bug fix is silly in that people continually say mesmer is just not viable. Do shatter mesmers need more survivability? Yes. Do mesmers need bug fixes elsewhere and still need pathing bug fix on ileap? absolutely, but this crying and whining is kittening stupid. The amount of mis-information being spread because of anger about a bug fix is insane.

It just needs the pathing fixed on incline/declines and currently at the moment it doesn’t produce a clone even when in range (i think since the dead clone teleport bug was fixed). It was never meant to be used as a teleport to avoid damage, stop trying to make it out like it was. It’s meant to be a lockdown mechanism via immobilization and gap closer because sword is a close range weapon, that’s the skill’s intent and that’s what it was mechanically designed for by the devs.

Please fix the pathing though on this skill, it needs to be able to effectively do what it was designed for, if you do anything on an uneven surface it’s extremely wonky and doesn’t work, this aspect of the skill needs to be reworked and fixed. Everything else is fine but that.

Wow… So you completely ignored my legitimate reasons why mesmer is used viably within multiple game modes in this game and yes GvG is not a announced game mode but it is one of the only things that keep wvw play alive and interesting, because it’s not just GvG’s that mesmers are used it’s also guild raid roaming which is sort of a method of gameplay used to for the WvW game mode, but you know it all so I’ll stop spilling logic.

Just stop playing mesmer please. You make good ones look very bad. The incessant whining is so ridiculous, the difference between you and the top tier mesmers that currently play is that none of those mesmers are here on the forums kittening and whining, why? They adapt. That’s the difference between good players and whiners. Adaptation vs crying.

Sergoros.4398:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Sergoros.4398:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ross Biddle.2367:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Fay.2357:

Swag Captain.5318:

Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.

Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.

Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh

Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.

It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.

Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.

U right. mesmer is also useful as portal bot. Happy?

Stripping boons, high burst damage in teams , cc , mass invisibility… Yea, portal bot. Get good if you don’t know how to play mesmer effectively, quit kittening crying.

Call me, when ull see any of those “usefull” mesmers without portal.

Uhm, if you’re trying to say because portal is an insanely effective utility out of many that the mesmer has is the only reason mesmer exists then you’re kittening kittened. Mesmer is used as a sniper in WvW GvG’s (portal isn’t used at all here by the way) and mesmer is used as a bunker node buster in top tier PvP. The reason why mesmer exists in tPvP isn’t solely because of it’s portal abilities, although the high skill cap it brings in having to coordinate your team around using it is really good but the biggest reason mesmer is used is for the boon stripping capabilities. Necro’s boon stripping isn’t as good because necro doesn’t have as good of survivability (mesmers: blink , invis with constant detargetting, stun breaks – necros get DS and are the focus target from the start) and would need much larger peels. This is why mesmer exists in tPvP. It destroys and breaks down bunkers guardians, and it destroys warriors and it destroys engineers in team fights because it wrecks their boons aka defense. They could also bring moa if they wanted and completely wreck bunker guardians but most bring mass invis to assist in ressing downed players/peels/offensive motives (mass invis a group and assault far, etc)

Sergoros.4398:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ross Biddle.2367:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Fay.2357:

Swag Captain.5318:

Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.

Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.

Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh

Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.

It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.

Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.

U right. mesmer is also useful as portal bot. Happy?

Stripping boons, high burst damage in teams , cc , mass invisibility… Yea, portal bot. Get good if you don’t know how to play mesmer effectively, quit kittening crying.

And I also laugh when Fay says mesmer isn’t good in WvW … Uhm, many good and top tier GvG groups utilize mesmers in their snipe groups to take out classes BECAUSE of the damage they do with shatter. The amount of bad is unreal and people trying to make cases that are just not true.

Ross Biddle.2367:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Fay.2357:

Swag Captain.5318:

Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.

Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.

Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh

Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.

It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.

Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.

Wow bad mesmers are so kitten about this fix it’s unbelievable. Did any mesmer use it as the skill was originally intended for or did EVERY mesmer in the game use it to abuse a bug to teleport and avoid damage?

“Summon an illusion that leaps at your target, crippling them. After the initial leap, the clone will execute the Mind Slash sword chain.”

Your thought of what you think it SHOULD be is irrelevant. It was bugged in the sense of how it should have worked mechanically based upon the description and it was fixed as such.

Like I said in my latest post, I agree with you but you’re referring to positive vs negative bugs , they’re both the same though – they’re bugs.. Anet does this kind of bug fixing with every class if you look at the history of what works and doesn’t work for every class. It’s not right but the developers are just extremely bad at fixing bugs that limit the professions and are excellent at fixing bugs that give positives to the professions, not just mesmer but it just so happened to mesmer with iLeap so it’s gotten the most attention but they do this with EVERY class.

Lishtenbird.2814:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Darnis.4056:

I demand Illusionary leap’s Clone be promoted to a higher HP due to how badly we just got kittened by arenanet :/

No offense, but this was heavily abused by mesmers especially in PVP. Now, I’m not saying they don’t need to be buffed but abusing bugs like this was clearly not the skill’s intention by anet, it was not meant to be a teleport to avoid damage , anybody who thought that is not thinking clearly. Higher hp would help and i agree it needs it, but even the pathing of the skill itself is horridly buggy, it just needs to be re-worked entirely. There’s a plethora of other kitten anet could fix too with the class in it’s entirety.

Lol abused? It was a feature with a high skill cap for use. Abused my left testicle.

A high skill cap? It was a BUGGED SKILL. What high skill cap are you referring to. It was a skill literally designed to immobilize your target into place to apply burst onto it. It was NEVER, EVER meant to be a consistent way to teleport away from damage and avoid burst, but since it was bugged it was used as such hence the fix. It is a nerf, but if people relied so much on a bugged skill then I don’t know what to say. It’s a nerf to people that heavily relied on a broken mechanic then I’m sorry , but that’s your loss. Now, moving onto positive fixes, make it’s pathing better, because right now when you use it , it’s wonky as kitten when you use on incline/decline areas and sometimes rubberbands when you leap. These need to be fixed please.

A nice quote on why this “fix” was a worse mistake then Power Block nerf:

A note to game developers: fix your bugs after release if you have the opportunity to do so. But beware that players enjoy the feeling of wielding “unfair” tactics, and taking that away from them can be a mistake if the “unfair” tactic isn’t powerful enough to single-handedly win tournaments.

People shouldn’t get used to bugs in the first place, whether they’re deemed unfair or not. When ranger’s empathic bond never transferred conditions to your pet (3 every 10 seconds) and was finally fixed a bunch of rangers got upset, but you know what, they knew it was broken and abused it until it was fixed , it took them almost a year to fix that one and rangers threatened to quit ranger because of it. When Pure of voice was broken (and even in the guardian thread) removing more conditions than it should have for almost a year , people got mad about that and threatened to quit guardian because of it. I’m still waiting on them to fix thieves d/p #3 teleporting through walls with no target , alot of thieves use that, and once it’s fixed what do you think will happen? You will see the same thing.

You should not adapt to abusing bugs because when they end up getting fixed , you feel like you’ve been let down.

What makes me upset though is the fact that anet forces most of the classes to endure obvious bugs that limit the class for more than a year plus that have been noted countlessly but willingly fix bugs that were used as a positive to those classes when it should be 50/50 and even more so on the side of fixing broken bugs that limit the class. That’s really the problem with bug fixes in this game that will probably never change.

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Fay.2357:

Swag Captain.5318:

Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.

Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.

Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh

First of all, helseth is only able to play effectively because his team is completely built around supporting a mesmer. While this is technically possible, very very few teams care to bother doing that.

Secondly, he doesn’t use sword/x, so this nerf obviously doesn’t affect him.

The team isn’t built AROUND supporting him, the team is built around fast off-node capping and use of portal and quick node rotations while tage holds node over a given time until they rotate again. They have a thief that peels for the mesmer, Sizer, so that means the whole team? He plays the mesmer class effectively and it works in some of the most top tier pvp this game has in this point in time, GASP. You are very delusional and think mesmer is nothing but good for roaming in WvW , that’s very unfortunate for you. It was a nerf to people who relied on a bug, just goes to show you how much people relied on it. That’s your fault for getting used to it, it was bound to be fixed (this bug has been known for a while).

My point about helseth was to illustrate how delusional you sound by saying that

" mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build."

Shatter mesmer is good in team play in tPvP whether it’s with sword/x or gs/staff. The amount of plays that can be done with portal are unreal.

Now anet please fix the bugs relating to pathing , rubberbanding and ileap as well as iwarden and the other bugs that have been mentioned over and over in threads before.