Guild Wars 2

StickerHappy.8052:

Anything now really.

Yea I rolled a mesmer today and did unranked/ranked pvp and was dominating pretty much everyone without effort using the insp mantra shatter build and standard shatter.

Also made armor for him and went to wvw and was 100-0 pretty much everything, literally everything aside from warriors with endure painon utility and traited , they just took longer to kill by 10 seconds roughly. Only class I had a problem with was other mesmers.

This really isn’t a knock to say mesmers are op, but man it was fun destroying things and really not being afraid roaming because i had numerous ways to disengage.

FrownyClown.8402:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Golden age lol … These builds are good against wvw bads who have little to no experience fighting actually good players, but you will not come close to a top tier player in tPvP with any of these builds.

They’re good though for low to mid tier play in WvW , nice videos!

top tier players aren’t gods. Individually they are really good but so are alot of people. They work really well in teams and that is where top tier players shine. Melee ranger builds actually do provide a decent amount of interupts and could be useful in a team setting. The stats available don’t seem quite right to make a decent build though.

Nobody said top tier players were gods, but they’re better than 95% of the players in WvW. Most WvW players are just really bad, even the ‘good duelers’. OP Stats , ascended gear, food , etc etc doesn’t always equate to skill. Roamers and duelers doesn’t make you good since most just rely on stats in their build to do 80% of the work for them. A bunch of thieves and mesmers and d/d cele eles and sometimes a condi d/d ele (aka +40% condi duration food reliance ) who act good but really just aren’t… I’ve dueled just about everybody good in WvW and don’t come even close to top tier players technically in both 1on1s and team play combined.

No offense to WvW players but the reason why you’re not as good as pvp players is because they practice technical strategies, the first thought in a top tier player is the utility of the build, not the stats , food, ascended jewelry, etc….

It’s amazing how much easier it is to fight in WvW because of stats than it is in PvP as a ranger. This doesn’t make me a better player, rather just being carried by stats and fighting against much less quality players in general. Defender runes alone, perplexity alone, etc… There’s many reason mid-top tier pvp players are just better fundamentally than WvW players will ever be.

Photinous.4628:

Eurantien.4632:

You will regret picking ranger.

This.

This

Practice, I think qt is very new and was also their first ESL if I’m not mistaken. With practice as a team they will get better over time.

Golden age lol … These builds are good against wvw bads who have little to no experience fighting actually good players, but you will not come close to a top tier player in tPvP with any of these builds.

They’re good though for low to mid tier play in WvW , nice videos!

Yea well Tanbin is considered one of the best rangers in the game at the moment , and I’ve only really seen him lose to one ele and that’s Serane in terms of dueling and even then it’s like 50/50 duels when they fight. They both win/lose depending upon how much the person is outplayed really lol.

As a ranger main and who also has a ele and does pretty well against rangers in duels / roaming these are some tips I’ve picked up.

The best thing I could advise is improvising based off what his condi clear his, he’s apparently using wilderness knowledge so he has 2 condi clear on his heal, lightning reflexes , quickening zephyr and I imagine he’s using entangling roots because that’s an extra 2 condi clear. If he runs condi renewal signet then that’s 1 removal every 10 seconds with the ability to take all condi off every 60 seconds (if he was running brutish seals from marksmanship it would be a 48 second cooldown on this). The beauty of that trait also is a perma fury upkeep so it goes well with the 15-20 might and celestial gear.

Put burn on his pet, his pet will follow you usually 80% of the fight, put ring of fire down and run in and out of it while fighting to put maximum burn stacks on the pet and mow down the pet with aoes while dealing damage to him.

Soft cc is crucial for setting up burst and always be surprising with your burning speed + blink combo from range.

Save some defensive utilities for his quickening zephyr burst combo hes setting up on you. That seems to be the thing that is hurting you the most. I’ve seen him duel and he’s able to deal about 8k-10k damage in this combo on top of placing 6 conditions on you w/ 8+ bleeds. So it’s brutal, avoiding and being ready for this is huge.

He’s a very good ranger so if you keep practicing with him then you’ll get better naturally against most rangers. He would definitely be the person you’d want to practice with though to get better against them.

I will add too that I hardly ever see celestial ranger builds so it’s definitely unique and something new. I usually only see pure condi or some form of sinister’s condi build variants around or straight power with longbow/greatsword (or sword/dagger). Nothing like this though so the advice above is the best I can give.

Hope this helps

Really the burn application just needs to be nerfed on these 2 classes. They’re the only reason burning seems OP right now. Anytime you see a burning thread, it’s from some burning guardian build or how eles are OP right now because of burning. If you nerf burning across the board, you hurt people who use it for supplemental damage and not abusing it either on purpose or indirectly like guardians abusing the burning by traiting specifically for it whereas elementalist simply just use the fire skills that are OP like Drake’s beath and ring of fire. Everyone else really is fine with burn application

Are we talking about like best mesmer overall with skill? would have to be Kyra or maybe Supcutie

Expert-wise like knowledge wise, it’s hard to tell because you only see through the words of people on the forums, but there’s many people who are experts at mesmer and don’t even go near the forums like the 2 above. But if you’re talking about forums I’d say Chaos Archangel or skcamow easily.

We’re not basing it on the name of the rune, we’re basing on what you define as a companion. If it were up to me I would allow illusions/clones to be counted as companions. But , really there’s much better runes than ranger for mesmer in terms of damage even if they did work with clones.

And are you sure you tested enough to make sure they do work with mesmer? Raw DPS tests with steady weapons?

zapv.8051:

Azel.4786:

zapv.8051:

snip

snip

I’m not saying eles should be out of the meta. I’m saying it can’t be that big of a deal if they are out of the meta, when necro and ranger have been out of the meta almost the whole game and seemingly no one cares. The problem is that you can’t justify working on eles when they have meta builds in every gametype, while other classes sit on the benches in those same gametypes.

All the time I hear people say, “oh well eles have only had one meta build in pvp”. While I’m all for more diversity, you can’t really justify working on diversity for a class that is great at a lot of things while other classes can’t even perform at the minimum level to get on most teams and in most groups. Once all the classes have at least one build that is very good in every game mode, then we can talk about adding diversity and fixing up more and more of the weak weapons and utilities. Until then, any talk of nerfs killing a class will fall on deaf ears because many classes are already dead.

One last point on the state of the current elementalist. Back on June 25th, 2013 necromancers got a trait called dhummfire that put them on the map. Many considered this trait to be massively overpowered and necros received nerfs to many of their skills and this trait in consequence. Despite this, when that trait was released and for the two months where it was supposedly super overpowered, teams still only took one necromancer. Similarly, at the peak of spirit rangers, teams were only taking one ranger on their teams. Compare that to elementalists now, where teams are taking 2 at a time, and you’ll understand why elementalists need nerfs and why many people in the community feel their is blatant class bias in this game.

Honestly, I don’t even care if ranger comes back into the meta. It’ll be cried about so much then nerfed again like spirit ranger was and also like BM was. Ranger simply cannot be in the meta for this reason. It will just completely cried about , hell , it’s not even meta and there’s a new thread about ranger longbow every day. Imagine if this class was in the meta. It’s obviously the most hated class by the game’s community, there’s really no question about that.

The class in it’s entirety needs a revamp or something for a role in pvp but really, at the end of the day, if it gets any role it’s just whined about until a nerf occurs then it’s back out of the meta again and again.

As a ranger main, I’m honestly AFRAID of getting buffs to the class for this very reason. Many buffs are very short lived due to the negativity towards this class. Taunt is one of them, and it will be nerfed more and more until it’s beyond useless.

Azel.4786:

StickerHappy.8052:

Quoted for truth.

No it is not truth.

Eles do need a nerf and that nerf is to the amount of fire stacks they can build up.

Before patch cele eles were not the “op” build you speak of, in fact there was a lot of discussion of it even being replaced by shoutbow warrior. The problem is that with the patch eles saw a huge spike in the burning damage.

Case in point, it is ridiculous how the drake breath before did some reasonable damage and now if you hit it in full it will do about 6k-7k damage. This huge spike is simply because of fire. Ring of fire from dagger 4 also got this massive power up due to condi damage from fire stacks.

So what needs some nerf in the elementalist is the amount of fire stacks it can pull – or a more balanced approach – nerfing the damage of fire across the board, which would help fix the problem in a lot of classes. (A burn guardian can rip you to shreds really fast too if you aren’t careful, for example).

Quite frankly, what is “truth” is that it is stupid to use as an argument for nerfs “it is your time to stay out of meta”. Classes should be balanced not to be put in the freezer for a time, but to level the playing field for everyone and right now there are alot of absurd things and a lot of underpowered things.

And also I am all in favor of a nerf to the boons that elementalist have, it would provide a nice change of pace for the class. But then you need to compensate that by giving the elementalist something to avoid being such a boon dependent class, otherwise you are just removing it out of the meta because “it is the time for that class” (which, again, is just dumb way of “balancing”).

On the other hand, I agree, mesmer and warriors have reached a point where it is very problematic.

Shatter mesmer can utterly destroy you with several bursts while having a very high survivability – given by the amount of misdirections, interrupts and still being able to be somewhat damage resilient. Before this wasn’t much of an issue because if he got you by surprise you were down, otherwise you could try to avoid it and take the glass mesmer down, now it is just too much.

Warrior rampage is absurd. yes they have big tells on their attacks, but they have good chase abilities, they have a lot of stability and not to mention the warriors innate bulkiness makes this elite THE Elite right now. My only solution for the warrior rampage has been dodging the first attack and then popping invulnerability while trying to get away, you simply cannot compete against the warrior when it pulls that Elite.

The problem is just that, the elite needs a way for you to compete with it, perhaps the possibility of interrupting it more, or perhaps tuning down on the damage (it gets too much for being a physical skill) or slightly shortening the duration (perhaps this might be the best solution).

Burning damage being nerfed across the board because 2 classes (arguably 3 with engi) are able to produce an absurd amount of burning uptime would hurt the other classes that use burning damage for supplemental damage. You would destroy condi ranger even worse than it is in pvp for example.

The best approach really is to just heavily lower the burning application of both ele and guardian instead of ruining viability in every class that truly need burning.

Vendetta.1958:

The entire point of shortbow is to use the five abilities on your bar at the opportune moment, as they all deal the same damage. That is, unless you’re running some dumb faceroll Condi build. In which case, if you lose, you should probs reroll to a cele DD ele or something.

As I said, 80% of you insist that the only source of damage is the bleeds, and you’re straight up wrong.

If you want power, use longbow. Shortbow is a hybrid weapon. So there’s nothing wrong with using it either for condition builds or power builds. Shortbow would be best with a celestial build but might stacking is iffy when mixing up the traits for might generation and getting optimal survivability traits at the same time.

I can just stay at 1,500 range and spam you to death with you in shortbow and dodge important canine attacks (most run canine or spider). Mesmer as well with GS 1,200 , etc etc.

I’m sure you’re a WvW roaming player who doesn’t get the chance to fight actually good players who take advantage of >900 range properly. Most WvW players are just simply bad utilizing builds to carry instead of actual player skill.

Never seen the bug before, just relog

It’s looks to be pretty rare bug

Nobody is saying at all maximum burst = viable pvp build. If that was the case then rifle warriors would be meta, but they’re not.

People’s problems with mesmer is you get practically everything in one single build (except good condi cleanse, HINT HINT guys) including survivability.

Agreed, ranger elites are kitten and rampage as one got nerfed hard. They tried to make it good by pulsing fury to work with remorseless which in theory sounds good, but it’s complete kitten.

Bad warriors are only successful with rampage? Uh, Crysis is in ESL at this very moment wrecking with rampage and winning only because of rampage. It’s sad an elite skill makes such a difference especially when you have an elite like entangling roots where a simple elixir from engi gets out of it or a port gets out of it . kittening sad.

Just so people know, decoy goes through sic em meaning they can use it even with sic’em on them as it’s considered a ‘different stealth’ with it’s own stealth buff.

Not a bad video, but I don’t think would be optimal against good players, would just utilize your lack of range out-range you.

But still good video never the less!

True, would also be nice if they added rune of the trapper and rune of aristocracy .. Maybe aristocracy isn’t for balancing reasons but rune of the trapper would be fun for trap builds in pvp.

One thing I don’t like about lightning reflexes is when you hit an ele with static field up. The hit from lightning occurs and stuns you , keeping you in place and puts it on a full cooldown.

So it looks like the hit occurs, then the evasion , but in between these 2 actions you get stunned from it and it goes on a full cooldown , keeping you in place and it doesn’t remove conditions at all.

Order of lightning reflexes then looks like it is:

1. Damage
2. 1/4 of a second goes by and then the evade frame occurs
3. You roll backward , removing immobilize only
4. THen you remove 2 conditions after the roll backwards

The dmg and evade should really happen at the same time to avoid being stunned like that.

They don’t even work with guardian spirits, only with ranger pets now. So this whole thing is irrelevant. Tested dps on guardian with and without spirits in HOTM, no change whatsoever but works with ranger who has a pet.

Hence, why it’s called rune of the ranger.

Roll up a mesmer, learn the skills and rotations from the meta shatter and mantra shatter and condi shatter – these 3 will be the builds you see in tpvp usually.. Learn what is needed to setup burst and count the rotation of stealth internally and practice.

In order to beat mesmer or to atleast viably compete with mesmer, you need to know what they need to do and utilizing internal counting the same way you internally count against a trickery thief’s steal is absolutely necessary. You can’t just face roll mesmer anymore, but in reality you couldn’t even face roll mesmer pre-patch , against good ones at least.

In this game, and especially in top tier you need to know your enemy in order to fight them. Not just the build itself but the person playing it , watch how typical mesmers setup their bursts and understand what is needed by them to accomplish it.

I also encourage you to watch top tier mesmer streamers and learn how they setup burst rotations and fight people, it’s pretty important to get a perspective from a top tier player to learn to fight them as well, not just rolling one up yourself.

High skill ceiling class with alot of utility , what do you expect?

I don’t even have to refer to the power creep of post-patch, lol. Look before post-patch, where do you see ranger meta aside from A YEAR AND A HALF AGO running spirit builds? Wake up man, ranger has never been in line with other classes , it was for a few months and it was a build completely reliant on passives and an elite that couldn’t be CC’d then spirits got nerfed into the ground and you haven’t seen them since in meta. So you’re saying ranger’s been balanced this whole time? >_>

Please… I think you confuse ‘balanced’ with simply not having a team role in top tier conquest. If you don’t have a role or definition then you’re balanced, every other class that has something unique they can bring to top tier conquest isn’t balanced.

Cool, I get it now, thanks!

Gotejjeken.1267:

So I’m seeing for the top 1% of players (Abjured), Ranger may be outclassed. Also in obvious broken edge cases (shatter mesmer), Ranger is outclassed.

The general consensus seems to be what I thought, that Ranger itself is rather balanced, just slightly off. Which is problematic as it means Anet will take eons do do anything to correct it.

Ranger is far from balanced, firstly it has nothing to be ‘balanced’ from , as it has no unique viability outside of 1on1 selfish dueling builds (even then some classes have edges over you). A class needs something to be balanced in a game mode, in conquest, ranger really has nothing compared to every other class, even necro.

It’s not just abjured, there’s not a ranger in ANY competing tourney team right now except I think Eurantien (I’m not even sure of that but he usually sticks with ranger no matter what), but I was using Abjured as a method to accurately see where ranger truly stands, and I’m not even referring to the guild itself , I’m referring to the skill quality of the players themselves – you test a class against truly good players, not scrubs in WvW …

But also, there’s a reason you don’t see ranger in any competing tourney team right now, as it has no place or role so how is it balanced to begin with no role – no true definition of what it’s supposed to be apart from being annoying with longbow which isn’t unique (mesmer gs does just about the same dmg with autos alone and the difference of 1,200 to 1,500 isn’t that big in all 3 maps).

I could easily disagree with you about your assumption of ranger being balanced and EVERY OTHER CLASS in the game being used in tourneys isn’t… I could say the classes mostly used are actually alright and are indeed balanced, and that ranger (1 class) just needs to be brought up without nerfing every class to be in ‘in line with ranger’.

Think of EB as boon sharing in the NM line but it’s conditions. So if you run through ring of fire and your pet does , that means he automatically has 6 stacks of burning from ONE walk through a ring of fire from you xferring to him running through it to because pet pathing is just terrible, imagine doing it twice twice (12 stacks) and so on.

Now obviously you’re probably smart enough not to walk through it, but my point is to illustrate simply how BAD this GM trait is , it’s a GM trait that is a passive kill for your pet in this meta. There is absolutely no reason to run this UNLESS it was put somewhere else in a master line and moved to 2 conditions to your pet instead of 3 to justify moving it to master and not GM.

It’s just terrible in this condi meta as a GM trait now. Burn is ridiculous and the condi spam in team fights is ridiculous, anyone running this now is just a fool. WK is way better but it also forces you to slow all survival skill to have a chance against condi builds, so it’s your choice. I run WK and like it much better over empathic bond but some people still run empathic bond , it’s up to you… I just think it’s a horrible GM trait now.

Sol.4310:

Wolfey.3407:

It’s no longer EZ mode idle and spam 2, I’ll give you that much. But, it’s not a dead class by any means. I’m having fun running weapon set ups like:
Long Bow/ Short Bow
Short Bow/ Axe + Warhorn
Long Bow/ Sword + Axe

The only major difference I’ve noticed is that Ranger has to actually work a little more when it comes to killing mesmers and thieves. Before 1 sic’ em is all you needed in conjunction with Rapid Fire.

Sic ‘Em is bugged mate, its alot harder now to beat Mesmers, Thieves depending on their build, I honestly change class if other side has 2 Mesmers its just pointless playing Ranger one is a problem. If your Marauders a good mesmer can almost 1 shot you and that’s with protective ward. This isn’t matter of learn to play you don’t have forever dodge or stone signet. GS block is worthless vs Mesmers even more worthless vs d/p thieves.

Ranger is worthless atm, we require support 24/7 or we are fish food. Even our condition builds are weak.

Pretty much this, against good players you will most likely have your buggy weapon skills abused (gs block is one of them, they intentionally trigger the block to keep you in place so they can burst you because the counter attack which SHOULD allow you to run doesn’t, it locks you into place so you’re an EASY target for burst) , peopel will intentionally ride you on longbow because they know 2-4 are extremely buggy when the person is extremely up close and the skill can easily put on a full cooldown and not even work at all. Hell, even I do this to longbow rangers when I fight them, and it works, because longbow is buggy as hell and sloppy.

They spent so much resources fixing things that positively helped us that they couldn’t even allow some of those resources towards easy fixes like the 40% damage on sic em , natural healing trait, offhand radius (why taken out anyway? just a dumb removal since you had just given us a bigger bonfire radius a month before post-patch… sigh) , there’s many more bugs that hurt us.

I also think protective ward doesn’t even trigger when you’re blinded as it counts as an attack to the player hitting you so I think it won’t even work on a blind burst combo by a thief as the protective ward will miss due to blind but I need to test that.

Rangers can roam and fight wvw bads , going against teams like Abjured , ranger is useless… That’s the problem with the class. It’s decent in 1on1 except you’ll most likely die to classes with high skill ceilings which ranger DOESN’T have: (you’ll die to eles like Serane / Phantaram because you truly see what a skill ceiling ele has when you fight them) , some thieves although they got some nerfs to condi cleanse making them easier to handle on condi builds, good warriors like Tarcis, Hayb,, etc (again, high skill ceiling classes dominate rangers) , good shatter mesmers will also wreck you which again has a very high skill ceilng.

The problem with the class is it lacks team support and there’s a lack of skill ceiling on ranger – the weapons are one-dimensional and easy to counter (longbow? sit on them and spam skills – greatsword? get out and range him to death with autos , no boon stripping, no ports. As a power build in a team you have an invis for a few seconds and you have stone signet. This makes you an obvious target in team fights both in wvw and pvp. As a condi build you’re tanky and ‘annoying’ but still a target for mesmers and thieves in a team fight but you have more tankyness and evasion and usually healing so you can withstand more.

Rangers are just simple classes. Low skill floor , not a high skill ceiling (even with the addition of taunt) and without proper team support (true team support, uniqueness , not something another class can do and do better like giving aoe swiftness and regen >_> ) they will just never be truly ‘viable’.

But yea, if you duel bads in wvw or in the duel arena all day and are given the impression rangers are good then absolutely , go for it…. But do this instead, go duel members of the Abjured, other top pvp guilds for practice if you’re going to duel. You’ll see how good other classes truly are and get true practice and insight on where the ranger class actually stands in both 1on1s and team scenarios and then come to the forum with your assessment. There’s too many players on the ranger forums who come here after dueling simply bad players and shout ‘what are you guys talking about? ranger is good, learn to play’ or something of the equivalent. No, go against top tier players who are organized and come back with an assessment at where it stands not a judgement from some duels you did during reset night in the obsidian sanctum.

Mesmers will definitely be nerfed somehow, the question is will it be damage or survivability.

Mesmer is insane right now , alot of classes couldn’t kill a burst PU shatter mesmer or even a good mantra shatter mesmer now. They’re pretty strong at the moment.

PowerBottom.5796:

When one team is just way ahead of the others, it takes real dedication from the other teams to catch up and since the scene in NA is kinda small, even smaller then in EU, it’s probably hard for the other teams to practice well.

I really wonder how the Abjured and other teams in NA and EU as well train. I see some EU teams scrimming against other top-teams and playing together, sometimes also with mixed teams from top-teams.
In NA, I only ever see solo-Q’s on like phantas stream. Yeah sure, they might not show their real training and scrims, but I simply don’t know. ^^’

Problem with training is that when one team is ahead of others, you can’t just train against the “lower” teams, cuz it’s hard to get better when playing against teams that loose to abjured anyways. It’s also sometimes hard and disheartening to scrim against a team that just always stomps you. To get good training, you need teams just slightly better then yours and the more different teams, the better.

Alot of them have been playing this game with top tier players in top tier matchups so long most don’t even need to truly practice to understand teamwork on that kind of level. I mean yea they practice as a team, but they’re mostly inner mixes in a pw protected arena , where a bunch of top tier players get together and face each other on a specific map. Most of the practice comes here and also dueling / testing builds with each other.

Saiyan.1704:

Michaeas Magister.1589:

phokus.8934:

Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.

Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.

We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.

Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.

Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.

Wow. To release a patch that basically makes 4 out of 8 (half) of your classes in a game unviable in sPvP.

Amazing.

At least with these early games people who want to play sPvP can see what classes to roll and train on. I wonder if they will allow the Revenant to be viable in sPvP?

Thanks.

The thing is, Thieves don’t even counter Mesmers as hard as they used to. Apex’s Thief didn’t +1 or backcap nodes like a Thief should… in fact.. that’s the only reason why people take Thieves to begin with.

If you have an Ele who’s on Home duty majority of the time, and teef can’t control the Mesmer, why bring a teef at all? They’re incredibly undervalued in 3v3+ zerg fiestas. Any other class will out perform him in this regards.

If you’re going to double up on Ele’s and grab a Mesmer, a Thief isn’t needed. Grab yourself a Warrior or Engi/Guardian/Necro for the CC and you’re set.

That’s what happens when you invite a thief to your team because it’s a girl and not because of her skill level. Apex had this one coming , not because of only the horrible playing by this thief, but they were trying weird kitten. They’ll probably tighten up their game in the future and find some unbeatable cheese bunker setup like before and win again.

Pretty much

15 char

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Trap rangers are far from legit, they weren’t even legit when you could throw them. AOE condi cleanse exists, and good teams use cleansing properly. One condi burst, then traps are on a 20+ second cooldown , that makes you a target for how long just spamming axe/d sword/t or shortbow skills since you wouldn’t run longbow as you’re specced for condition damage. Also, keep in mind you can bring one stun break with traps at maximum so good teams also know this and will just stunlock you down and kill you first after they’ve dodges through your or traps OR cleansed the condis from traps via ele / necro / enemy ranger (condi signet active > pet swap) , etc etc etc the list goes on in terms of active cleansing … This is why condi builds are simply not that good in general right now in top tier at all… But people think trap ranger is legit, dude…. the node bunker regen 1v1 condi build isn’t even legit because you fight for 2+ minutes and get +1’d easily by a thief and you most likely will not beat a good cele ele with it which is who will assault that point anyway.

Please , against hotjoin heroes yes traps can work but against good players and competent teams, traps are very easily countered.

Also , range counters traps , so the idea that ‘traps beat pu’ is out of the question as you can just range them with mesmer greatsword (GS range = 1,200 autos) so you can just out-range your opponent, which any good mesmer will do.

Taunt needed to be fixed, but the thing is , nothing that negatively effects the ranger has been fixed even things way before pre-patch and no matter how many forum posts it takes, they still don’t which brings me to the conclusion that they just don’t have the resources to fix them at all.

We’ll be waiting MONTHS for fixes on these things that negatively effect us yet there have been 2 top priority hotfixes to patch things that help us and then this patch took care of the rest of them which is fine , but there are also negative bugs (10+ , and they are major) that hurt us so much in the same way and it’s ridiculous.. We will even be waiting until way after HoT comes out which will stall even more of those fixes coming into the picture because it will bring more fixes needed for the elite classes and balancing , etc.

This is the frustration that most of the rangers have to deal with, and it’s similar with other classes as well but no where NEAR the amount that ranger has to see / deal with.

Either way, people will STILL cry about taunt, whether it’s evade-able / blockable / immune or not… It will still get cried about because ranger is using it and it will be nerfed even more because of it.

Only idiots throw down all their traps at once.

How many trap rangers have you seen in top tier competitions?

This question should really summarize everything I said about trap ranger above in my quote and also respond to your answer of ‘only idiots throw down all their traps at once’ … It doesn’t matter if you do or don’t, they’re just not good in top tier because they’re EASY TO COUNTER. It’s rather simple.

“But I know one thing for sure and it’s a daily bread on forums – bad players whine for nerfs loudest and most often.”

As opposed to the top tier players who have Grouch as a skype friend and make a list of bugs and fixes privately and keep a spreadsheet of them together like what Backpack showed on stream?

Both good and bad players do the same thing in terms of whining, the only difference the good players have anet Devs on speed dial via Skype to get their kitten done for them quicker.

Hmmmm…

If they don’t body block, then not being able to slot but one stun break will ruin the viability in any spirit build even intangible… Really they need to work like an engineer kit and have them in ONE utility slot and be intangible. Then you could slot more defensive utilities to assist since they would no longer body block for you, body blocking hits and CC was a big reason they were so powerful, not just the protection/condi spam.

Terrorsquad.4802:

blitzkrieg.2451:

I’m not sure man, as a ranger mesmer seems still seem alright to me… I’ve played against some of the best ones too and it seems like if I make a mistake I’m kittened and if they make a mistake they’re kittened, that seems like how it should be IMO but for some other classes that might not be the case.

Ranger will remain good in 1v1, one of the best. But in team arena.. I dont see them, do you?

(talking about mid-high tier pvp)

You don’t see them because ANET has geared towards ranger having very selfish utilities aside from condi renewal signet active and 4 on longbow. Everything else is geared toward 1on1, I think you pretty much answered your own question on this one.

Rangers had spirits , which was the only team support build that made it to top tier, was abused, then nerfed.

Rangers had BM , which was the only 1on1 node fighting build that made it to top tier, birds were op, so they decided to nerf the whole profession ( ).

Traps were good at the beginning of the game, moreso because I think people hadn’t found out about the above 2 yet, but haven’t seen a trap build in top tier pvp in over 2 years.

Power works, but problem is , ranger has no ports, boon stripping, etc for power to work appropriately as alot of classes can just out-tank the damage and cc you and when you go off of stone signet it’s GG.

These kinds of things makes rangers really only good in 1on1s, even then you might see them not do as well against cele elementalists , warriors if they’re played well. Which I think is kind of the point.

I just don’t want classes to get nerfed because of ‘if they play them right they’re godlike!’ mentality. If you play any class right, then you’ll do well and as such you should get rewarded for it at it including ranger in 1on1s, but simply put ANET didn’t gear ranger toward team play so therefore you don’t see them.

Damage should not be changed, but survivability may need to go down if you’re going to nerf anything at all. Even then, I’d wait it out to see what situational comps can counter mesmers in team play before making any moves.

Please don’t nerf damage, the game is fun right now in this respect.

I’m not sure man, as a ranger mesmer seems still seem alright to me… I’ve played against some of the best ones too and it seems like if I make a mistake I’m kittened and if they make a mistake they’re kittened, that seems like how it should be IMO but for some other classes that might not be the case.

@Amir: If you’re suggesting an evade ranger does alot of damage, you’re mistaken. An evade ranger would be condi based so knowing this avoid torch skills and you should be good – bleeds and poison do hardly anything right now. Count the evades on the weapon set and setup burst afterwards. Pretty simple actually, the most important thing against a ranger is waiting for them to heal → interrupt and keep range. An evade ranger relies on being close to you to do damage (axe/d , sword/t).

Condition ranger will also be indirectly nerfed when they nerf burn damage as well because of ele , guardian so GG to that as well very soon.

This is very important to realize as well, condition ranger only seems a bit stronger because of burn damage. Once that is nerfed, you’ll realize how bad condi ranger actually is because of the scaling down of bleeds / poison damage.

I believe it stacks in duration, but the stacking is only up to 5 stackings for duration then it stops adding more duration to the chill after testing.

Muchacho.2390:

blitzkrieg.2451:

zapv.8051:

blitzkrieg.2451:

It was put in place so chill spam doesn’t happen when reaper comes out, which it would be. It would be ridiculous in team and 1on1 situations if they didn’t do this. Chill is arguably the most powerful condition in the game next to fear and easily the most soft CC in the game, even over immobilize. It’s extremely strong. Doing this will ensure that classes, even ranger (ranger has chill builds and major upkeep on chill as well) aren’t able to spam chill.

Fear, Chill>immob, you are insane. Sorry you lose all credibility with that statement, immob that prevents all movement and dodging is the strongest condition in this game by a huge margin.

You’re absolutely wrong actually, chill spam is much more important than immob because it’s more readily available , and when chained, it’s the strongest condition in the game. Immob is good but you can still evade spam inside of immob which makes it much less usefull, but having a 66% cooldown slow on everything? It’s much stronger, and a much bigger impact in team fights. Immob is strong, but nearly as strong when chill can be achieve near perma with specific classes. Ranger is one of them, and you can get 1m chill uptime with the build alone when somebody doesn’t have condi remove with 6-7 different sources of chill. Reaper will be able to do the same. Chill being 5 stacks prevents that. Now it still benefits people who utilize it for supplemental soft cc purposes but also renders people not able to spam it, if you didn’t you would see double reaper power necros perma chill spam in team fights and tpvp wouldn’t be fun at all.

No you are wrong. A good placed immob folllowed by a good burst is far more devestating then chill spam ever could be.

Honestly if reapers will only bring chill spam they wont be any good. We already have builds that can pretty much spam chill for days and are still not really good in spvp (or any game type).

“A good placed immob folllowed by a good burst is far more devestating then chill spam ever could be.” – People have condi cleanse and evades and a good player will almost usually get out of that condi burst – besides, you don’t immob condi burst anymore in top tier – you setup stuns → burst (mantra mesmer, ele bombs, warrior hammer, etc) immobs not so much anymore. Now, knowing this you put that same condi cleanse or stun breaks on a CONSISTENT 66% slowed cooldown from mostly passive gameplay , it’d be broken. Meta builds rely heavily on cooldowns, especially eles and mesmers. Thieves not so much because ini regen isn’t affected, but steal is, and steal is necessary.

Which builds can chill spam currently? Only 1 so far right now can throw constant 4+ second chill attacks from 6-7 sources , ranger but the thing with ranger is it’s all single target chill. Reaper will also be able to do this with AOE, except it’ll have high damage as well.

zapv.8051:

blitzkrieg.2451:

It was put in place so chill spam doesn’t happen when reaper comes out, which it would be. It would be ridiculous in team and 1on1 situations if they didn’t do this. Chill is arguably the most powerful condition in the game next to fear and easily the most soft CC in the game, even over immobilize. It’s extremely strong. Doing this will ensure that classes, even ranger (ranger has chill builds and major upkeep on chill as well) aren’t able to spam chill.

Fear, Chill>immob, you are insane. Sorry you lose all credibility with that statement, immob that prevents all movement and dodging is the strongest condition in this game by a huge margin.

You’re absolutely wrong actually, chill spam is much more important than immob because it’s more readily available , and when chained, it’s the strongest condition in the game. Immob is good but you can still evade spam inside of immob which makes it much less usefull, but having a 66% cooldown slow on everything? It’s much stronger, and a much bigger impact in team fights. Immob is strong, but nearly as strong when chill can be achieve near perma with specific classes. Ranger is one of them, and you can get 1m chill uptime with the build alone when somebody doesn’t have condi remove with 6-7 different sources of chill. Reaper will be able to do the same. Chill being 5 stacks prevents that. Now it still benefits people who utilize it for supplemental soft cc purposes but also renders people not able to spam it, if you didn’t you would see double reaper power necros perma chill spam in team fights and tpvp wouldn’t be fun at all.

It was put in place so chill spam doesn’t happen when reaper comes out, which it would be. It would be ridiculous in team and 1on1 situations if they didn’t do this. Chill is arguably the most powerful condition in the game next to fear and easily the most soft CC in the game, even over immobilize. It’s extremely strong. Doing this will ensure that classes, even ranger (ranger has chill builds and major upkeep on chill as well) aren’t able to spam chill.

Trap rangers are far from legit, they weren’t even legit when you could throw them. AOE condi cleanse exists, and good teams use cleansing properly. One condi burst, then traps are on a 20+ second cooldown , that makes you a target for how long just spamming axe/d sword/t or shortbow skills since you wouldn’t run longbow as you’re specced for condition damage. Also, keep in mind you can bring one stun break with traps at maximum so good teams also know this and will just stunlock you down and kill you first after they’ve dodges through your or traps OR cleansed the condis from traps via ele / necro / enemy ranger (condi signet active > pet swap) , etc etc etc the list goes on in terms of active cleansing … This is why condi builds are simply not that good in general right now in top tier at all… But people think trap ranger is legit, dude…. the node bunker regen 1v1 condi build isn’t even legit because you fight for 2+ minutes and get +1’d easily by a thief and you most likely will not beat a good cele ele with it which is who will assault that point anyway.

Please , against hotjoin heroes yes traps can work but against good players and competent teams, traps are very easily countered.

Also , range counters traps , so the idea that ‘traps beat pu’ is out of the question as you can just range them with mesmer greatsword (GS range = 1,200 autos) so you can just out-range your opponent, which any good mesmer will do.

Taunt needed to be fixed, but the thing is , nothing that negatively effects the ranger has been fixed even things way before pre-patch and no matter how many forum posts it takes, they still don’t which brings me to the conclusion that they just don’t have the resources to fix them at all.

We’ll be waiting MONTHS for fixes on these things that negatively effect us yet there have been 2 top priority hotfixes to patch things that help us and then this patch took care of the rest of them which is fine , but there are also negative bugs (10+ , and they are major) that hurt us so much in the same way and it’s ridiculous.. We will even be waiting until way after HoT comes out which will stall even more of those fixes coming into the picture because it will bring more fixes needed for the elite classes and balancing , etc.

This is the frustration that most of the rangers have to deal with, and it’s similar with other classes as well but no where NEAR the amount that ranger has to see / deal with.

Either way, people will STILL cry about taunt, whether it’s evade-able / blockable / immune or not… It will still get cried about because ranger is using it and it will be nerfed even more because of it.

mistsim.2748:

Malchior.1928:

Is it still unblockable though.

this is the most important part. im happy =)

I think it going through invuln and evades were the bugs.

He’s asking, and no it doesn’t… It doesn’t go through anything anymore.

Yeh it’s extremely sad that we have kittening 10+ bugs that extremely hurt us and not one of those were addressed yet all of the things that always positively effect us are fixed within a week. It’s become very annoying and I understand taunt needed to be fixed but where are all of the bugs that need to be fixed that hurt us very badly getting fixed?

Kids will still cry left and right about taunt whether it goes through invuln, block , evades or whatever. They’ll cry about ranger not because of any specific skill but because it’s a ranger and then say it’s some specific skill that’s op and needs to be nerfed. It’s simply that, in my whole entire time playing ranger I have never gotten a ‘congratulations for doing good on your ranger’ it’s always some kittenty excuse posed by the horrible player , same with the forums – rangers can never have anything good so for this reason taunt will be nerfed even more in the future due to crying , whining babies.

Light on your feet is a garbage trait even with 100% condi duration bug , it was kitten.

Fix our kitten bugs anet, wtf

This thread , the OP , everything about it … I lol’d.

It was a bug list being maintained by about 30-40 people that Backpack accidently leaked out unknowing that it wasn’t meant to be on stream. It’s just a list of public issues that have been noted from forums , etc.

Chokolata.1870:

Question: Does MoC increase the spike trap KD?

Don’t think so, doesn’t MoC only affect stuns and dazes? Spike is considered a knock down

Condi is just bad in team fights against good players is all, too much aoe cleanse esp with mantra mesmers now (shatter / mantra aoe cleanse) and eles and warriors and personal condi cleanse makes it next to useless… No doubt it might be good in 1on1s, but you’ll just get +1’d against good teams and then lose the node. Cele rifle had dmg and more team support and survivability.

p/p provides no team support like cele rifle did, p/p is next to useless , yes it got buffed but in a dueling / selfish way.

people aren’t used to rifle cele, it was the best team support build engi had , and they nerfed it. this put rangers up.

i’ll clarify also, rifle cele isn’t trash, it’s just other classes got buffed so much and the nerfs made it not as wanted/useful for carrying teams.