Guild Wars 2

Grenth trait instead =D

Necro is a very fun class to play, you just need to work through the ridiculous nerfs.

Moving that 30 from SR and split 10 into DM for well protection and 20 into BM for well recharge might be more useful.

Not sure taking a zerk based build traited for DS is the best platform for a wells build.

I didn’t say 0%, I said very few. Once again that was the case, I saw a total of 4 earlier today. 3 of those were in the same match, not including myself.

MethaneGas.8357:

Oh you haven’t? Cuz I could’ve sworn I saw at least 4-5 Necros in that 15-20 man zerg just 2 hours ago. That’s easily 30% of the players in that group playing one profession… and there are 8 professions. Why they would play a class that “requires a strike” is beyond me.

We both know Necros are quite common.

And yet I haven’t seen them. One or two here and there, not a striking amount and no where near what you are saying. Then again, that is MY experience and you are talking about YOUR experience(as if it is the only truth). By all means, base an entire population off one zerg you saw 2 hours prior to your post.

MethaneGas.8357:

Lily.1935:

Money and time.

Its honestly as simple as that. Do you get annoyed when your time is wasted? Do you get annoyed when your money is wasted? Well, This explains both. Since a video game, especially a MMO is a Huge time sink its very understandable that people would get upset over something that they have invested both time and money into and haven’t gotten an appropriate return. You may not value your time and money that much, but I do. Especially considering have so little of both.

You bought the game for what, $50? You have at least 1k hours into the game, no? If you ask me, that’s more than worth it for -yes, you guessed it – $50.

Necros are in a pretty good shape right now. The game has 3 modes. PvE, WvW and sPvP. Walk into sPvP – Necros. Walk into WvW – Necros. That says something. So on the one hand, you have a huge amount of people playing the class and on the other, you have people demanding a strike. What the?

And the gif was for the gibberish about rights, status quo, seeing Anet as an authoritarian government, and laws…. really? …. Really? What the? Chill out.

I’ve actually seen very few necros in pvp/wvw/pve lately lol

Also it has traited group protection and siphon.

Very recently I started roaming/testing this D/D hybrid build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAoYWjMaF7pbmb07JEoH9CuAiRPOmghZoK4OA-j0CB0CAUFYk3gEIQEJIZmCRZqasVTFRjVdDT5CQHbR1SBsoyI-w

Seems kind of off, but it actually really impressed me.

It kind of depends on what purpose or role you intend to play out. I’ve used the DM line for several of my builds that were very specific to a particular cause. If you are happy with it, roll it.

Oh yeah for sure, there are hundreds of “laws” and regulations that are not enforced or cared about. You are right though, what we have is basically a right to play. Although a point Andele made that contracts between two parties doesn’t over ride the law, the laws this game(and like every other game) breaks is lesser than jay walking. Anet doesn’t steal from anyone that I know of, and they do make an effort to improve the game although in my opinion wrongly, so legally I think it’s a dead end. If they wanted a wiser approach to balance they could easily employ lets say 10 man teams per class to play out PvP/WvW/PvE and give very direct guidelines to what kind of input they want for each class. Explain very directly and thoroughly what image and direction they have for the classes and take input criticisms/done rights from each person. If they want an attrition class, what kind of traits would you modify to reach that goal. What kind of skills or added effects/traited skills needed to make that image viable.

^ This dude makes a very interesting point.

Axelwarrior.9084:

I find it incredibly pointless to go on “exile” from a game because you’re not satisfied of your profession’s state.
I mean, really. It’s a game. If you’re not gonna play it, you’re only punishing your self.

If you are not satisfied with your professions state, playing the game won’t make that better. Playing a game you are starting to dislike is punishing yourself, NOT playing a game you are starting to dislike is rewarding yourself with less frustration.

Sig of vamp is self trolling.

I agree with impact here, if you work on learning your class without guides it will probably help you in the long run. Asking about the mechanics of certain skills or traits is a different story, because several are misrepresented.

Minus chilling darkness that’s nearly identical to a build I used to run when roaming wvw. It’s actually very effective in rabid/dire hybridized gear and cvt trinkets. Will probably be very effective for you.

^ Your last paragraph didn’t make much sense to me, but I agree with what you were getting at prior. I wish the dev team did know the issues with necro with relevance to other classes though…

I’d be happy with an expansion, despite what usually happens when they release something new. I can see warriors getting op skills, and necros getting more vamp signets, which seem to devs to be op and get nerfed. Probably a few new sets to farm for that turn out looking like the wurm pieces(lol). Oh well, try to have fun where you can while waiting on bigger and better things.

Better competition also makes better necros.

Brando.1374:

borrok.9267:

You are calling a large majority of necros bad with that statement.

Did I rustle you jimmies because I speak the truth?

I don’t play conditions. That aside you aren’t stating the truth, you are stating an opinion. There is a MASSIVE difference between the two.

You are calling a large majority of necros bad with that statement.

I actually rolled a warrior due to this… Holy kittenmilk it’s so much easier to play. PVE is 10x easier than it already was, pvp is drastically more simple… That being said, hard to stop playing the only class I really like.

The NerfCannon has spoken.

If you want to be disappointed by future necro nerfs, then by all means come back and join the party. There ARE necro nerfs looming in the future, so keep that in mind if you decide to spend the rest of winter here.

Yeah buddy. All necro guild is my deal too =D

When I ran cond I used rabid for quite a while to make use of the “on crit” sigils and traits while maintaining survivability and damage. If you plan on running in wvw I’d suggest using dire stats though.

Junkpile.7439:

Play with smart players who can think and know what to do. Often controlled chaos with good player is much more effective than very controlled tight melee train.

Seen this happen SO often. Hopefully anet actually does improve the commander system. It’s unfortunate that people like the OP who were born with medical conditions etc are bickered at because the alternative is more difficult. Friggen people sometimes…

Luke.4562:

Nada, Vampire Necro is still a dream.

In Pve we aren’t the best class (effectively we are not in a good position), but there are some Powerbuilds viable.
Death Shroud dps based builds, mostly dagger builds. 30/25/0/0/15 or 30/10/0/0/30 are some of the most common builds, revolving around Close to Death, Deathly Perception, Unyelding Blast and Target the Weak.

In Pvp atm we’re enough competitive, even if we have hard counters and some great weaknesses.
One of the most OP builds we have it’s the Dhuumfire Terrormancer 30/20/0/0/20, revolving around Terror, Dhuumfire and condition spikes. Minion Mancer has become a pseudo-meta build even if it didn’t receive big buffs for Pvp in the last 12 months. Even here Powerbuilds revolving around Deathly Perception became more used.
The meta adapted on the diffusion of bunker builds and condition spam builds, so expect to see a lot of condition hate.

Can’t say about Wvw.

What this guy said, with a WvW addition. Wells build is most viable, cond in zergs are pretty much useless. If you roam they are still effective, but power DS builds I feel have been more effective.

Cogbyrn.7283:

borrok.9267:

By that logic, 9k BS is effecting the enjoyment of the game, and so are hammer warriors. Delete classes pl0x. Your second point is true though.

By that logic, losing is effecting enjoyment of the game, because everyone wants to win. Might as well close the servers and burn all copies of the source code, then nuke the server room from orbit.

Tuning a passive buff and discussing class mechanics are horses of two different colors. I don’t know why you can’t see that. In any case, the backstab damage isn’t even the issue with Thieves, and Hammer Warriors can be dodged and dealt with in small-scale engagements.

But we’re talking about passive food buffs that have a drastic effect on fights. Changing the prevalence of stealth/blind/backstab shenanigans is one thing. Tweaking a 40% to a 15% or whatever is something else entirely.

From the perspective of a necro – Anyway, someone posted the math on how 40% effects conditions already So I’ll leave with this. When I played terror that 40% brought my fear from a 3/4 to a 1 in duration.

When I roll MM I use PVT to pretty good success.

By that logic, 9k BS is effecting the enjoyment of the game, and so are hammer warriors. Delete classes pl0x. Your second point is true though.

Rezzet.3614:

Medazolam.3058:

I see no problem with the food as is now, several ways to counter (runes, food, traits). Once you break down the math of the 40% increase in condition duration in terms of actual damage ticks, it isn’t OP at all IMO.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage

Damage is determined per second, so the increase needs to be at least a second for anymore damage to be applied. The condition needs to ‘tick’ again. So for the people suggesting a nerf to 15 or even 20%, that means for the damage conditions, you need a base duration of 5 seconds for the food to even have an effect at all. During this time you can clear the condition as well. As previously posted, condition damage can be thought of as ‘potential damage’ over time. At least this is my current understanding, if I got this wrong please correct me.

lets not forget about the perplexity runes confusion spammers though wich can hardly be countered in classes with low condi remove thanks to how condi removal removes the one freaking skill that least harms you

and immobilize now that it stacks being immob for 20+ seconds on top of interupts knockdowns and stuns is just absurd

and you just pointed out why it is broken because the only way to counter condition duration food is with -40% condi duration food

Not a great idea to nerf food to get at the perplex runes that should just be deleted anyway lol

Epic.3950:

There will be two types of people posting on this thread, those who say: “nothing you can do about that its just gonna happen” and those who say “OMG GET GOOD l2ZERG LUL BADZ” I will say neither. you kill those mother kitteners, you tee bag those mother kitteners, you dont call for reinforcements and you die gloriously in mother kittening battle. YOU WILL NOT RUN UNTIL YOU SINGLEHANDEDLY DRAW SWORDS!

aahaha I agree with you here.

Nice vid, well played =D

Master of Timespace.2548:

borrok.9267:

Straegen.2938:

Rennoko.5731:

You sound like your one-man-crusade against conditions must continue…

Is there a food out there that reduces the physical damage I take by 40%? How about 30%? 20% maybe???? That is what your -40% food does to me if I don’t take rare veggie.

Is there a trait line in every class that gives an overall 30% boost to condi duration? Yes.

Are there more runes that give more duration than reduction? Yes.

Is there a Sigil than increases duration but not a corresponding one to reduce it? Yes.

Is there a weapon line that gives an increase to duration but not a corresponding one to reduce it. Yes.

There are far more ways to increase duration than reduce. Bumping power by 300 is in most situations less than a 10% boost in overall damage. Bumping Condition Damage or Condition Duration by the same amount has a much bigger impact on overall damage output than power or precision.

And toughness, and boon duration, and power, and precision, and crit damage, and vitality… Your point has no validity because A) Power has more damage options. The power options relate to more damage over their condition counterpart. C) You don’t seem to understand the math, similar to the OP.

Gotta love how you rely to mathematics without actually providing any mathematics in your post. Might as well refer to The Bible next time.

Gotta love how a comment about not understanding the math at the end is a relying point. With several people explaining why he is wrong, and right before my comment even explaining the math and citing a source to where it is posted, I shouldn’t have to give a lesson on how damage is scaled. My ending comment should be one of those hints to go look.

“Anyway, I don’t think the issue is necessarily condition damage itself. It’s also the existence of traits such as dhoom fire that procs powerful conditions in a way that they cannot be avoided.” – no one likes dhuumfire and necro has suffered unthought out nerfs because of it. The arguments regarding conditions have pretty much all left out what THEY get for boosts and forget how many cleanses there are etc etc. The food complaint is another good one. This debate is beaten into the ground and it revolves around the same group of people. I gave up conditions at the last necro nerf, but will still defend them. DS build kills faster than conditions anyway.

Straegen.2938:

Rennoko.5731:

You sound like your one-man-crusade against conditions must continue…

Is there a food out there that reduces the physical damage I take by 40%? How about 30%? 20% maybe???? That is what your -40% food does to me if I don’t take rare veggie.

Is there a trait line in every class that gives an overall 30% boost to condi duration? Yes.

Are there more runes that give more duration than reduction? Yes.

Is there a Sigil than increases duration but not a corresponding one to reduce it? Yes.

Is there a weapon line that gives an increase to duration but not a corresponding one to reduce it. Yes.

There are far more ways to increase duration than reduce. Bumping power by 300 is in most situations less than a 10% boost in overall damage. Bumping Condition Damage or Condition Duration by the same amount has a much bigger impact on overall damage output than power or precision.

And toughness, and boon duration, and power, and precision, and crit damage, and vitality… Your point has no validity because A) Power has more damage options. The power options relate to more damage over their condition counterpart. C) You don’t seem to understand the math, similar to the OP.

Terravos.4059:

Where are condition builds currently used…

Solo and in SPvP..

You don’t see them used in PVE, and you don’t see them used in Large Scale PvP

complaining you lost to a Bunker type build in 1v1 because you didn’t want to counter Condition Duration with anti Condition duration food is silly.. Those people are countering your power by investing as much into defense as possible.

Thank you. Logic FTW.

Atherakhia.4086:

RashanDale.3609:

Atherakhia.4086:

RashanDale.3609:

Grumpdogg.6910:

Do any WvW guilds run condition necros? Wellomancer is the meta.

my guild doesnt. with the ridiculous amount of cleanse in general (and especially on heavies) it’s just not viable

So they’re running power then? I highly doubt that…

Of course they run power. why not?

Never seen a power necro in a zerg, but if you say it’s so, it must be so.

If I run in zergs I only run power, because conditions are near useless there. Almost every necro I see does that same thing. Power > conditions in zerg.

Hoof.1523:

100% agree. REMOVE both – 40% and + 40% condi duration foods. they are way over the top. Or reduce the effect of both to maximum 10% + -

The way I see it.. Both or nothing lol

Dee Jay.2460:

That’s too simplistic a look at it.

The fundamental difference you need to understand is that unlike Power builds, Conditions scale with each other.

I.e. the more different Conditions you can stack, the more dangerous they become.

Stacking 10 Bleeds might be 10 times more dangerous than stacking 1 Bleed, but stacking 1 Bleed, Burning, Poison, Weakness, Cripple, Chill, Torment, Confusion, Immobilize, Fear is many times more lethal.

Conditions are exasperated by numerous issues:

• The addition of Torment helped mask existing Conditions with an additional DPS Condition.
• Rare Veggie Pizza adds a disproportionate amount of Power to Conditions.
• Conditions previously exclusive to certain builds are now accessible to everyone (Confusion)
• Thanks to additional Runes and Sigils ANet has made it easier than ever to stack various Conditions.

These changes occurred outside of any class-balance changes and probably affected the whole “Condition Meta” more than anything else.

1 stack of each does nearly no damage aside from burning, and goes away within seconds. Also you get a food that reduces cond duration by the same amount, so idk what you are complaining about.

Dee Jay.2460:

borrok.9267:

Dee Jay.2460:

Junkpile.7439:

Dee Jay.2460:

But none of that is an excuse to have them being so ridiculously overpowered and dominant as they are in current PvP combat.

WWW forum. We should talk about www not wannabe sPvP in www maps. Conditions are underpowered in current www combat.

Nope they’re not. WvW isn’t just about running zergs because why then debate anything but Guardians, Warriors and Necros?

And Conditions aren’t underpowered. They can just be easily cleansed because every Guardian is forced to run group-cleanses because without them Conditions would kitten on everyone.

If Conditions weren’t so overpowered then maybe not every class would have to dedicate a third of their traits and a third of their utilities just to cleanse them.

As opposed to cond spec dedicating all of their traits to applying them?

What are you saying? I can’t make sense of your comment in this context.

My point is Conditions are overpowered to the point that stacking massive amounts of counters isn’t optional, it’s mandatory.

Before condition bombing was a thing, Warriors might have occasionally opted to play without Berserker Stance or Cleansing Ire. But not today.

Conditions have resulted in an arms race where due to their power, they have forced everyone to run massive counters. Everyone who does not stack these counters is completely steamrolled with little chance to fight back.

The irony is that Conditions builds might actually do BETTER if they were nerfed because people might feel less compelled to stack condition counters.

Maybe the odd Warrior might start running without Cleansing Ire or try Bullscharge instead of Berserker Stance. It might not happen immediately, but eventually it will. The meta evolves and if you make people feel less pigeonholed into stacking condition cleanses then maybe you might come out on top.

If I got some sort of reliable damage mitigation on par with what cleansing warriors have(as well as damage mitigation) I wouldn’t care. To your question – “If Conditions weren’t so overpowered then maybe not every class would have to dedicate a third of their traits and a third of their utilities just to cleanse them.”

Dee Jay.2460:

Junkpile.7439:

Dee Jay.2460:

But none of that is an excuse to have them being so ridiculously overpowered and dominant as they are in current PvP combat.

WWW forum. We should talk about www not wannabe sPvP in www maps. Conditions are underpowered in current www combat.

Nope they’re not. WvW isn’t just about running zergs because why then debate anything but Guardians, Warriors and Necros?

And Conditions aren’t underpowered. They can just be easily cleansed because every Guardian is forced to run group-cleanses because without them Conditions would kitten on everyone.

If Conditions weren’t so overpowered then maybe not every class would have to dedicate a third of their traits and a third of their utilities just to cleanse them.

As opposed to cond spec dedicating all of their traits to applying them?

Everyone always forgets that power builds can not only increase their crit chance, but also(ermehgerd) their crit damage D= D= D= You can’t clear all your conditions you say? Well I can’t clear all of your raw DPS either so I guess we are even, other than the fact that cond spec can get 40% duration from food. Oh wait… You can get -40% duration too? ER….MEH….GERD…. I really hate this entire debate. 9 times out of 10 it’s a warrior complaining also.

Not another one of these threads…

Over the last couple months I’ve stacked dragonite like 3 or 4 times… If it got buffed I’d be out of space lol

Kovu.7560:

I run condition ranger and lose plenty of battles to zerk. (Warriors in particular because of op regen and that condition immunity ability.)
The thing about condition is that it’s generally not burst damage and most classes have ways to clear the conditions I put on them fairly easily. Try stacking bleeds when they get removed at least once every 10 seconds (most often more often than that). Burn and Poison alone won’t do it for me.

Necros, and Engineers are built to be better at it than me. I can’t spam every condition in the book. Perhaps this topic is more directed towards specific condition classes?

~ Kovu

If I could spam every condition I’d never NOT play cond necro lol

azurerogue.9240:

borrok.9267:

azurerogue.9240:

borrok.9267:

Eloquence.5207:

Clearly, this is a L2P issue.

- HerpsADerPs, Oneofthe12DerPs

I would probably agree if it wasn’t a matter of numbers. The best player in the world will get hit the same with the same set up and variables on both ends.

False. The best player in the world knows how to mitigate damage from key attacks.

The best player in the world will get hit the same with the same set up and variables on both ends

Ah, I see, so you’re saying if both players just tried to face-tank they’d take a lot of damage?

Exactly.

azurerogue.9240:

borrok.9267:

Eloquence.5207:

Clearly, this is a L2P issue.

- HerpsADerPs, Oneofthe12DerPs

I would probably agree if it wasn’t a matter of numbers. The best player in the world will get hit the same with the same set up and variables on both ends.

False. The best player in the world knows how to mitigate damage from key attacks.

The best player in the world will get hit the same with the same set up and variables on both ends

Eloquence.5207:

Clearly, this is a L2P issue.

- HerpsADerPs, Oneofthe12DerPs

I would probably agree if it wasn’t a matter of numbers. The best player in the world will get hit the same with the same set up and variables on both ends.

Atherakhia.4086:

borrok.9267:

Terravos.4059:

Atherakhia.4086:

Make condis require 3 stats like power does and the world is a perfect place. This way both builds sacrifice their offensive capability in favor of more defense.

So the question is how do you do this? Simple… you cut condition damage by a ton (66% for example) and then allow conditions to crit.

So you think that Condition Builds which are based around damage over time attacks should require 3 stats like power damage, which does all their damage upfront.

Do you not see the problem with that logic?

Damage Over Time builds need Time to do damage, hence why they’re allowed to build tanky to allow them to do that damage.

Your suggestion would pretty much kill Condition damage builds while pushing the game back towards the silly power builds we have now just like in PVE.

He, like every other pro-power/anti-condition advocate don’t understand nor care. If gear was more equal between power and conditions, then cond spec would have the option for cond duration similar to crit damage. The game has a heavy bias towards power builds, and yet there is still crying and complaining from people who just want to roll over everyone on their warrior.

Actually, in a perfect world, you’d want the opposite of condition duration. You’d want a stat that reduced the time between ticks. And I laugh at the idea that this game has a heavy bias toward power builds when the entire PvP game mode is dominated by nothing but condi bunkers and WvW is much the same. The only place condis don’t work is in PvE and that’s because of the stacking nature of them and how burn/poison work.

The only bias this game currently has is a melee bias.

To your first point, that would be wildly over powered. In pvp I see maybe 10% cond builds on average. WvW is the same deal, the vast majority I see are power builds. It’s very rarel lately that I see necros(for example) in pvp that aren’t either a DS build or MM. I may have run into a handful of cond specs while roaming in wvw in the last few weeks of playing at least once a day. You are right, cond don’t work in PVE. Non-zerk sucks there. So the game isn’t power based, but is melee based? Mkay.