But backstab doesn’t hit for 4 or 5k before all of those bonuses. WIthout runes or traits or amulet, with exotic daggers, it does about 975 to 1025 against light armor. About 2k if you include the amulet stats.
Because every morning a paper and a scissor will face each other and the paperbuild will complain that he breathed the earth so quickly that day… so unfair…
That about covers it. It quickly became a meme in MMO circles: “Nerf paper. Scissors is fine. -Signed, Rock.”. Of course in this case it’s mostly warriors and mesmers calling for thief nerfs, in which case it’s closer to rock asking for a nerf to scissors. Those two, and also guardians and some specs of engineer, can completely steamroll thieves.
stealth alone is often enough to do almost everything
What you mean I can just hit stealth and you automatically fall over waiting for me to end your downed state? Well kitten, why did no one tell me this before!
It’s not what you see from the camera angle, it’s what skills you can activate to hit behind you!
The person i quoted specifically said camera angle. Also, if only there were a keybind you could press that would automatically turn you around 180 degrees… oh wait.
It’s really a shame that the ignore function on this forum doesn’t work. The thief forums would be completely clear of nerf herding with no more than 15 ignore slots used for the people who can’t figure out how to use simple things like this.
Edit: Wait, that person was you. Are you so brain damaged that you don’t even know what you yourself said now?
For the above I’d like to remind how hard it is to target guys that usually try to backstab you, consider the camera angle
How do you mean? I see the camera angle as actually being in your favor. In most games you wouldn’t see much behind you but in GW2 the camera is positioned in such a way that if you look slightly down you see as much behind you as you do in front of you.
Stealth is certainly an issue in targeting, sure, but once the rendering bugs are fixed it will be a very temporary issue.
Talking about average about a skill which, when traited, has 100% chance to crit, is not so useful.
100% chance to crit isn’t going to turn something that can hit as low as 1600 damage into 18k damage. Sorry, but even thieves can’t stack crit damage that high. Average hit, on a crit, is about 8-9k, well within the range that most other classes can enjoy causing. Necro is really the only class that can’t reliably burst in that range.
Besides this, I thought the consensus among thief-haters was that all of these terrible evil backstab thieves took Executioner? You can’t have Executioner AND Hidden Killer.
First I would like to point out if we go stealth we don’t instantly drop combat and start reg. Second, if we were to move slowly in stealth it would pretty much make stealth useless as stealth is how we do surprise attacks and we cant do that if we cant catch the people we are trying to hit.
Stealth is not broken. Rendering is. Once they fix the rendering thieves will be fine. We might actually need a buff to be honest, at the very least glass cannon builds will be very hard to run without them being suicide builds.
Right now the rendering problem is adding an extra 2-3 seconds onto our stealth which gives us an unfair advantage of being able to get people down to 75 or even 50% without them even being able to see us. I was walking around on my engineer the other day in wvw and a thief ganked me from behind he got me to about 33% of my hp before I saw him. But once I saw him I destroyed him. Fix the rendering and you fix the QQing.
I would also like to point out to everyone who isn’t a thief that thieves are very limited as to what they can do. I don’t mean by builds I mean by playing style. We have to focus one person down and we have to do it quickly and quietly. Our only AoE is from the shortbow and that is very limited. Fighting 1 on 1 is what we are made for and being able to escape is how we avoid getting sucked into fights we will never win.
Stealth is not god-mode. We still take damage, we are still subject to AoE pulls and roots. Use your brain and you can stop thieves.
All of this is 100% correct. Well, except for “Fix the rendering and you fix the QQing.”. Bads will still be bads.
Also if you stealth away from combat you can sometimes get stuck in combat and not be able to get health regen again until the targets you were fighting are all dead or you leave the map. I don’t know if this is a bug or how it’s intended to work, but it’s worth noting.
No, the problem is 15 or so idiots that continually whine for thief nerfs. The rest of the population handles the current situation just fine, many of them steamrolling thieves because they take the time to learn how to play the game instead of just whining all the ding dong day about that one rare thief that managed to do more than usual damage to them that one time. I was willing to compromise before, but no, I’m sick and tired of it now. It’s time arenanet wakes up sees this little sect for what they really are, the sludge of the earth.
i think the raw damage of whine needs to be dropped maybe 20-30%. Also its setup is so easy, i can use it to kill whole groups of people with my eyes closed and just a mouse, don’t even need a keyboard.
OMG can’t you see that whine isn’t the problem? whine is fine, nerf the “anet’s attention” buff that makes whine so powerful.
It is true, a thief can hit for 1k of backstab. With no traits, no gear and almost no weapon. Sad thing is that no thief runs with those things.
I, the target, was naked. The thief that killed me was not. I don’t know what kind of traits he was running, but he was definitely fully geared (probably in the default gear when you first enter pvp). It was a fringe case, to be sure, but so are the massive numbers people have been showing.
Also check closely thieves fan answers *cough*bwillb*cough*, when I say “bugs come first” they say: “YES I agree with you, so let us keep the insta-kill build and we are happy while they fix bugs for the next months”
You said bugs have to come before buffs to our weak specs. I agreed, and said bugs should also come before nerfs to our strong specs. How the kitten is that trolling? Oh sorry, I forgot, you’re part of the covenant of 15 people who want thieves to be completely useless. You want to nerf our one or two good specs into the ground and put off buffing our bad specs permanently. Get the kitten out off here. not even going to bother with the rest of your post because it’s all trash.
I don’t know how people can compare the thieves running up to you invisible throwing out enough damage in seconds to kill most non bunker builds and then running off invisible (with the added possibility of the rendering issue keeping him invisible all the time) to a Mesmer who has to cast all of his clones and then send them running towards you to shatter in one of the most telegraphed attacks in the game all the while hoping that you don’t kill them with a single aoe or cleave.
Every single MMO that comes out suffers the same issue. A bunch of nomad FoTM MMO players (who are mediocre at best) get hissy about a class and clog the forums up with nerf calls.
Developers react and nerf the class, almost always over-nerfing, but by the time the nerfs are in those same forum posters have moved on to the next FoTM MMO . End result is a useless class, most reasonable players who have skill and have researched how other classes play realize that class was nerfed too hard, but developers will almost never correct the over-nerf in case the forum whiners start up again.
In GW2 the class is the thief. I’m hoping GW2 devs are stronger than most.
the post contradict itself since “FoTM” mainly is composed by Thief, and Mesmer…now mesmer has no point on qq about thief since any decent skilled mesmer will wreak a thief, specially considering the % of you who can only play with 3 skill combo and backpedal when they are on CD
FoTM doesn’t mean class of the month. it means Flavor of the month, and can refer to a variety of things. In this case, he is referring to the status of the MMO as being the currently popular new kid on the block. By calling it FoTM he is suggesting that once something new comes out and these people have already ruined enough in GW2, they will move on to the new MMO, in a never-ending cycle. And this is absolutely true.
In WvW a thief hit me for 19k damage while stealthed which hit killed my mesmer. My mesmer is also a glass cannon build, but my biggest damage output is 4k. I Am lv 80 full exotics.
Warriors never did that to me, nor rangers, elementalists or necros. Just thieves.
Could you explain me in which way is the excuse “cannon glass build” a good argument for that situation?
in sPvP a thief hit me for a little over 1k with backstab. That’s One Thousand Damage. While I was naked. Without any traits spent or anything. And there was a video yesterday of a mesmer doing like 20k burst. Now what?
This is misleading, thieves can only apply fear throw the Skull Fear steal skill, which can only be stolen from necros, therefore cannot be done on any other class
Please, do a little research before sprouting kitten
Well it can technically be used against other classes, but does definitely require a necro to steal from. And necros aren’t exactly common… 4 out of 5 steals will be whirlwind.
Xom: You’re confusing the bug of rendering issues with balance issues. They are separate things. Working as intended, the thief is fine. With the rendering issue, it is not.
edit: not just for some counter evidence but also posting your stats at the side as well
this screenshot contains more info that any other screenshot in the this thread.
Yup. completely base stats, no defense, no traits, no skills used. And that’s how hard it hit me. The necro pet was hitting me harder than backstab.
i am feeling exactly what Narkosys.5173 said. I know it is pointless most of the time to bring in argument and defend something, but if I don’t do that I will have to blame myself is something bad really happens (assa signet was rebalanced as per suggetions, but pistol whip was nerfed to the ground with qq)
So, you believe that the nerf threads are entirely wrong and EVERYONE else is just out to get you? Some sort of conspiracy against GW2 Thieves, is it? That’s a very believeable theory. Quite possible too. That theory isn’t ridiculous or anything.
This is a horrible fallacy. Not everyone in game is on the forums. Not everyone who is on the forums participates in thief nerf threads. There is a core group of maybe 15-20 players who daily spam nonsense about thieves, trying to get them nerfed. A few new faces will tag along every now and then, but it’s usually the same 15 or so names that keep popping up. 15 people out of the… what… 3 million that play the game? The other 2,999,9985 people seem to be playing just fine without feeling the need to solicit thief nerfs every kitten day.
Funny thing is several of those 15 are warriors and mesmers, the classes that are greater than or equal to the thief in power. It’s almost like they’re upset that thieves can escape their wrath while no other class can.
After a while i was able to predict who started the thread just from the name. Its become too obvious. But i guess it does take years to grow up so they probably won’t be leaving anytime soon. Those people are just like the political figures in real life when they gain too much power. At the first sign that they are losing control, they will do things such as spreading false information and lies to try and regain control. But we, thieves are putting up too much of a fight, thats why they believe they must stamp us into the ground with a higher power (anet) then actually trying to best us themselves.
Yeah it is a bit like politics, isn’t it? In the words of Samuel L Jackson, "Wake the !$@% UP!
All of the thieves here saying their profession is fine. I DARE YOU to play with maximum of 1 stealth and without using D/D at all. If you do so, you will be on par with other professions. A friendly tip : You have an ability called WEAPON SWAP and stats called THOUGHNESS and VITALITY. Berserker amulet isn’t the only amulet the vendor has.
Actually I’ve mostly played as D/P, thank you very much. Had about the same success rate as I do with D/D. Played as a S/P for a while but it’s kind of lacking in most situations, especially if haste isn’t available. Still got a heavy nerf, though.
i am feeling exactly what Narkosys.5173 said. I know it is pointless most of the time to bring in argument and defend something, but if I don’t do that I will have to blame myself is something bad really happens (assa signet was rebalanced as per suggetions, but pistol whip was nerfed to the ground with qq)
So, you believe that the nerf threads are entirely wrong and EVERYONE else is just out to get you? Some sort of conspiracy against GW2 Thieves, is it? That’s a very believeable theory. Quite possible too. That theory isn’t ridiculous or anything.
This is a horrible fallacy. Not everyone in game is on the forums. Not everyone who is on the forums participates in thief nerf threads. There is a core group of maybe 15-20 players who daily spam nonsense about thieves, trying to get them nerfed. A few new faces will tag along every now and then, but it’s usually the same 15 or so names that keep popping up. 15 people out of the… what… 3 million that play the game? The other 2,999,9985 people seem to be playing just fine without feeling the need to solicit thief nerfs every kitten day.
Funny thing is several of those 15 are warriors and mesmers, the classes that are greater than or equal to the thief in power. It’s almost like they’re upset that thieves can escape their wrath while no other class can.
It’s really not that different. If the target is a bad player, their badness continues to make it a cakewalk. If the target is good, their goodness already makes it interesting. In both cases, rendering issues make it perform much better than intended. Thief balance arguments are moot until that bug is fixed.
-You teleport to the player from 900range instantly (This is the strongest of all the things that happen in this combo and is vital to making it instagib)
It’s important to note that it doesn’t necessarily teleport you to the enemy’s backside. So unless the enemy is already facing away from you, you still have to fiddle with running around the enemy before you can get the most out of your combo.
-MUG does good damage (To good for a 10 point trait)
I’m not sure but I think there may be an occasional bug in the calculation on that one. Mine usually only does like 1k or less on a crit but sometimes its more like 5k. Much more variance than I see in most skills. Should definitely be looked into and fixed if there is an error.
Fix the combo casting mechanic and you balance the thief without nerfing anything
it
by “combo-casting mechanic” do you mean the mechanic that lets you cast an instant attack while channeling another? I think that’s working as intended, but I could be fine with changing that as long as its an across-the-board change.
Other than that, I think the situation is fine. That’s 4+ skills and an entire trait pool dedicated to helping that one burst. Other classes are still capable of the same level of burst, some even without dedicating as much towards it. But I think just fixing the bugs involved would go a long way towards evening out the big picture.
It takes a special kind of wilful disregard to allow yourself to believe that the explanation for all the thief complaints is that everyone in the game not playing a thief is a bad player.
What kind of specialty does it take to not realize that most people playing the game don’t have a problem with thieves, and the bunch that come here and cry are a vocal minority? Or to just ignore the 9 bad thieves you steamroll and only focus on the one well played one who owns you? You only notice what you’re looking for. Hell, most of the people crying for nerfs admit that they steamroll most thieves when we really get down to it and the truth comes out. And most of what’s left admits that they steamroll everything but thief.
The only nerf I was disgruntled about was Assassin’s signet, I liked having that one big hit. The current one is nice for chained abilities though like sneak attack, which is okay I guess.
Heh that was the only one I really supported. Most of the other nerfs have either been unneeded or completely attacking the wrong thing. The pistol whip one is the one that pissed me off the most, since that skill was, and still is, only OP when combined with the over-the-top quickness effect.
The problem is anything against your side is considered a complaint. I agree there are a lot of uninformed “whining” but even the people with intelligent arguments are immediately labeled as noob whiners. Go to any other forum and people will gladly defend their profession. Of course there will always be people in every profession who will say “go whine somewhere else noob” but for the most part people will intelligently defend their class.This forum has spiraled out of control into a sickening hate fest on all sides with little to no intelligent discussion.
I’ve seen about 3 legitimate complaint threads out of the 30000000000000 nerf-herder posts. The reason thieves are becoming hostile and dismissive is because we’ve had at least one new nerf thread every day since the game released. Even people whining about skills that have already been nerfed into the ground. Just today I saw people whining about heartseeker spam and pistol whip being OP. Defending against stupidity at that scale is a futile matter, especially when no matter what proof is shown arenanet just goes ahead and listens to the ones asking for the nerfs anyway. The only way to fix this is to halt balance changes until the bugs are fixed and ban anyone who tries to use the thief discussion forum for a nerf agenda.
Nah nah nah, what we need is a pair of forums. One is call “Thief” the other is called “Thief complaints”. Any whine thread in the Thief forum is deleted or moved to the complains forum
We have a special place for the “thief complaints” forum. It’s built into the suggestion box. It feeds directly into the shredder.
Yes let’s make Warriors be able to do more than 16k with 100b!
Or let’s make Mesmers be able to do even less but still lol their way around your corpse!
I get it now, let’s give D/D ele’s more combo finishers they can set up by themselves to give buffs/cure conditions/heal etc.
Or did you want to give Necro’s another button to give them yet another full bar of HP?
Ok ok, I tend to get sarcastic.
Rangers really do need a buff.
And I still lol everytime I see a guardian that tries to be funny with a damage build.
Here’s my thoughts on overall balance, once bugs are fixed:
All Classes: reduce quickness effect to be 50% increased attack speed.
Warrior: Nerf HP and greatsword damage, introduce more reactionary options and a combo field.
Mesmer: Keep mostly how they are, aside from obvious bugfixes. Add a mainhand pistol option.
Thief: Revert pistol whip nerf, buff pistol mainhand a bit, add a slow 2h rifle option focused on long-range shutdown and a defensive offhand sword option. Rebalance steal to provide less benefit but be usable more often.
Ranger: Revert shortbow auto-attack nerf, improve pet AI, remove self-root/tracking from sword auto-attack.
Elementalist: Keep overall power the same, but reduce minimum skill level needed to be competitive. Add a greatsword option that is medium-short range focusing on wide cone attacks and ground-stab PBAoE attacks.
Necromancer: Nerf health slightly, increase availability of short-term dps (burst). Improve pet AI. Allow the necromancer to temporarily possess one of his pets (keeping his own life bar, boons and conditions), going incognito and gaining monster skills for a very short time.
Engineer: Add a 2h hammer option. With explosions. Done.
it has a 3.5 second animation time where you are completely rooted in place.
i dont care what weapon you use, if you just stand there and let someone hit you for 3.5 seconds you are going to take a lot of damage.
Why does this sound so familiar… Wasn’t there a thief skill nerfed a while back with the same situation? That had just as much nerf-herders against it as backstab does now?
Shsh. Do not let them to actually find out that necros are op even with bugs. Do you know how much easier is it for me to kill a thief than a necro? I wasn’t playing whole day when i tried necro for the first time and had 40k hp with elite in arena
Heh necros aren’t too bad. They do have a bunch of HP though! But in terms of actually ending a fight in your favor, necro is one of the weakest since most of GW2 is built with quick bursty damage in mind.
It isn’t a matter of people who don’t bother to counter at all, it is a matter of people who CAN’T counter at all because of laggs, rendering issues and the incredible short time thieves’ burst take.
But that’s no different from the mesmer.
Absoltely not. The visual clue of backstab is almost non-existent,
Okay, feel free to believe that instead of trying harder.
if you use also the trait which puts you in stealth on steal, there is no visual clue at all.
I’ve not seen a single backstab-burst thief with that trait. It requires 20 points into shadow arts, which is a tree that is mostly useless for glass cannon thieves.
So, list those way. I mean, hard counters, those kind of counters that don’t allow the thief to repeat that burst 3 seconds after.
No. Do your own research and experimenting. The counters are quite easy to pull off, if you know them you can do them, so just spouting them off would be saying “here’s every weakness I have” and that’s not very sportsmanlike. Ever played poker? A card shark playing against you isn’t going to tell you “When I rub my nose, it means I have good cards.”
Unload.
3 Unloads on full power/crit thief can deal up to 16k damage and leave you with every skill on recharge. Plus, it doesn’t use utility slots.
Look at the amount of skills and action he has to do to deal that burst
look at how many of those skills and actions were just face-rolling everything as soon as it came off of cooldown.
Still have to see any footage of any profession excluding thieves killing people in 1-2 seconds.
There was one a couple weeks ago of an engineer that could get people 100-0 in less than a second by timing projectiles to hit simultaneously.
Face rolling? Does it really come from a thief?
Yup. Thieves aren’t the hardest class to play, but we certainly can’t afford to just hit every skill we have as soon as combat starts.
Anyway the burst well done was just one, in which no clone was killed and no dodge was used, the other ones were just average bursts.
Same thing on thieves. Occasionally you’ll get a huge burst against someone who doesn’t bother to counter at all, other times it’s just average. The videos showing off thief burst are cherry-picked engagements.
The visual sign of that burst is coming is obvious, all clones and phantasms rushing into your position -> dodge.
The visual cue on backstab is slightly less obvious, I’ll give you that, but it’s still there if you’re observant.
You can also use an AoE to kill all clones and cut down the burst to only 8k or less damage, which isn’t enough to kill any player, then the Mesmer has every skill on cooldown and no way to escape (= dead).
There are several ways to counter backstab and cut it down significantly (or completely) as well. And in those cases, the thief is left with everything on cooldown and little-to-no initiative.
The Engineer footage was done in WvWvW against leveled up people, not worth mentioning.
@bwillb
I’m obviously refering to heartseeker and steal
Heartseeker doesn’t automatically position you, it just gets you closer. And steal, while it does put you adjacent to the target, does NOT automatically put you behind the target. If you’re not behind the target, your backstab is wasted.
What I was sayin was, that the mesmer has to hit quite a number of skills to reach the damage thieves can get in one hit, and on top of it, it’s quite avoidable, not to mention those clones are weak and will get blasted almost always before hitting the target, and the mesmer is stuck from the flurry while doing it, sure you get the distortion, yet the enemy can run out of it.
The mesmer burst used two attacks, the backstab thief burst uses two attacks. Both
use additional utility to increase the damage done.
If you are actually refering to skill-3 of mesmer sword then… would you seriously compare it to thieves’ heartseeker? consindering it’s THAT conditional and, again, clones die easily? AND it’s not an instant skill, but has to be placed and then activated again in order to trigger the positioning effect? given you are actually placed where you wanted to?
I wasn’t actually referring to any specific mesmer positioning skill. But since you brought it up, that’s actually a pretty good comparison. Double-tapping it is a non-issue. It has almost 50% longer range than heartseeker. And mesmer doesn’t need to be behind the target to deal their burst, while thief does, and heartseeker does not provide that unless the target is already turned away from you.
because it takes 0.25 to summon 3 clones, survive a moa morph and cast the shatters (which are evoidable by simply strafing into them) and do the flurry which sticks you in place right?
Who said it takes 0.25seconds? He gets one clone up, then gets hit with the insanely OP Moa (which is another mesmer skill, by the way). The moa ends at 0:24, he starts attacking again at 0:26, the playback slows down drastically to show what’s going on, and the target is downed at 0:30. Total time needed (not counting the time he was Moa’d since that would screw up anyone) to cause the burst that kerishan quoted: about 2-3 seconds.
do you actually want to compare a whole, avoidable, killable, hard to pull, setup to a simple auto-positioning-skill clik?
Oh, do mesmers have a skill that automatically positions them? The first part of your comparison was obviously describing the thief with a specific perfectly timed combo to perform, not the faceroll mesmer, but I don’t know what the second part could be…
Blurried Frenzy: 6624
Shatters: 2700 for each x 4 = 10800
Hehe I like how he enters combat by using all of his weapon skills right away, switching weaponsets, and then using all of his weapon skills right away. But people claim “oh thieves have it easy with their initiative”. Really? I can’t use all 10 of my weapon skills in quick succession… That could explain a lot about why people can’t counter thieves, though, if they’re doing this.
@bwillb
Its called pistol whip. Last hit on it can easily crit for 9-10k. On uplvled champs it went as high as 15k (dont recall if i activated signet at that time). Combined dmg can easily go up to 20k. All that by pressing #3 once. And yes, it is spammable; with haste its just kitten It also has a built in evade. And if kitten hits the fan just press #2 and you are back where you started reseting the fight. However with proper signet and food that heals on crit you wont have a need to reset fights often.
I don’t think you understand how multi-hit attacks work… the last damage number to pop up IS the combined damage. The damage pop-ups are a running total, not the damage of each hit. The last hit on pistol whip does about the same damage as the first. The skill does 1,026 base damage spread over 9 strikes. The damage per strike fluctuates a bit, though because it’s actually nine separate strikes of (1,026/9) damage, which then takes in the random factor of weapon damage ranges.
Yeah I supose shortbow does alright in aoe, I just find spamming a single ground-target skill to be really, really, boring. I didn’t mean it’s not possible to take on that many, just that I don’t find it to be an enjoyable experience. I much prefer a situation where I can make use of stealth attacks and shadowsteps and dodging big attacks without rolling into the pack of 5 mobs over there that respawned 5 seconds after I killed them.
This isn’t that true.
The amount of skill required to counter that combo is way higher to the amount of skills required to perform it nicely.
If balance is fine, the amount of skill required to afford the combo should be exactly the same to the amount of skill required to avoid that combo.
You requires lighting reflexes to counter this insta-death combo but what does the thief needs in terms of efforts to perform it? Absolutely nothing.
It’s really not as hard to avoid it as people claim. Certainly not harder than similar-damage-level combos on other classes such as Engineer that aren’t in the limelight. The rendering issues make it harder to avoid than it is meant to be, but that will be fixed next patch, and no one is against fixing that. The backstab combo, as it is implemented, working as intended, is perfectly fine. it’s devastating if you just sit back and let it happen, but it can be devastating to the thief if you actively counter it, which there are many, many, many ways to do, many of which only require hitting a single button, not the perfectly-timed combo people do to get their instant-teleport-stealth-backstab.
Also a combo that ends a fight in 2 seconds shouldn’t be in this game and you can imagine why.
No, why? 2 seconds is more than enough time to react unless you suffer brain damage. Almost all classes, aside from necro, have ways to end a fight quickly. Guild Wars 2 combat is faster than you might be used to seeing in MMOs such as World of Warcraft. That’s not a problem, it’s just how it was designed. Necro needs some fixes to be able to compete in fast combat, but other than that it’s fine.
The thief is the most overpowered class I’ve ever seen in any MMO and I’ve been playing since the late 90s. It needs to be nerfed way more than it already has. In order to actually compete with a marginally skilled thief you have to completely build your char and setup skills around the idea that you’re always going to be fighting a thief. If you do you’ll have a hard time with other classes and if you don’t thieves will kitten you a hundred times out of a hundred. Even the absolutely crap ones.
Hyperbole much? The thief is about even on overall power with Mesmer and Engineer, and weaker than Warrior.
The effort to create this combo is proportional to the skill of the target, with an even matching at the midrange. That is, bad targets are extremely easy to hit with it, average targets are about evenly matched, and skilled targets are extremely hard to hit with it. This is the kind of matching that tactical balance should be going for. Before the basilisk venom nerf you’d be a little more correct, but right now, nothing the thief does is without a reactionary counter. The only REAL problem with the build is the rendering/culling issue, and that’s supposedly being fixed in the next update.
So, as you are saying, the effectiveness of the combo rely only on the target’s skill but not on the caster’s skill. Is this balanced in your opinion?
Of course there are people who can avoid the combo, but you can’t negate that no brain is required to perform that combo and in a competitive environment this isn’t acceptable.
No, I’m saying that the amount of skill required by the caster is affected by the skill of the target. If the target is bad, the combo doesn’t require much skill. No combo requires all that much skill if the target isn’t actively trying to counter it. However, If the target is good, the combo requires a lot of skill.
Backstab should be at 4k damage on tanky people, which is hell high when considering that it has almost no casting time and a potential external cooldown of 3-4 seconds, and max 6k on squishy targets. Also Mug should deal AT MAXIMUM 2k damage (without considering heavy damage boosting traits).
That’s about how it is already (well, closer to 3k and 5k without assassin’s signet and might stacks). And then backstab does double damage if you put in the effort to fulfill its positioning requirement (which isn’t particularly easy, no matter how much nerf herders will tell you that you can just spam full damage backstabs)
What other class requires having a 3-4 second buff up to be able to do ANY damage with their primary damage skill, and requires proper positioning on top of that to be able to do decent damage?
I meant a Backstab on the back, of course.
Anyway, the efforts to pop out that damage is too low. That buff is easily accessible to any D/D thief and proper positioning is also easy to get when considering that most the thieves are running with immobilize venom.
The prize of having good positioning and a buff to deal that damage consists in that you aren’t exposed because of high channeling or building up adrenaline or something like that in order to deal that damage and the casting time is almost instant. There shouldn’t be also a prize on the damage amount.
The effort to create this combo is proportional to the skill of the target, with an even matching at the midrange. That is, bad targets are extremely easy to hit with it, average targets are about evenly matched, and skilled targets are extremely hard to hit with it. This is the kind of matching that tactical balance should be going for. Before the basilisk venom nerf you’d be a little more correct, but right now, nothing the thief does is without a reactionary counter. The only REAL problem with the build is the rendering/culling issue, and that’s supposedly being fixed in the next update.
According to you, backstab takes no skill right now. You must be high. Backstab takes the most skill to execute its full potential amongst all the available skills in the game right now.
An in moving combat backstab takes timing and skill, but that is not how it is most often applied so why pretend it is?
That’s solely on the shoulders of the target. Yes, it’s much easier to pull off a backstab if the target just stands there and does nothing. That’s true of most attacks in most games. Play better, and you make the thief have to play better.
Backstab should be at 4k damage on tanky people, which is hell high when considering that it has almost no casting time and a potential external cooldown of 3-4 seconds, and max 6k on squishy targets. Also Mug should deal AT MAXIMUM 2k damage (without considering heavy damage boosting traits).
That’s about how it is already (well, closer to 3k and 5k without assassin’s signet and might stacks). And then backstab does double damage if you put in the effort to fulfill its positioning requirement (which isn’t particularly easy, no matter how much nerf herders will tell you that you can just spam full damage backstabs)
What other class requires having a 3-4 second buff up to be able to do ANY damage with their primary damage skill, and requires proper positioning on top of that to be able to do decent damage?
Thief is bad at actually fighting in PvE, namely things worth killing (bosses, not just the trash roaming the zone). Thieves are great at exploring, due to their fast mobility. This doesn’t mean they’re good at PvE. Thief would be my last choice if I was recruiting for a dungeon.
I really can’t believe you think running away from trash mobs makes a class good in PvE.
Yeah, exactly that. Thieves are good at exploring. That’s a large part of why I originally picked the class. Also, I really hate Orr. When I actually need to kill something, sheesh, thieves weren’t designed to be taking on a group of 5 high-hp targets…
I easily do 20k dmg on non tanky cloth by pressing 1 button that i can spam.
Oh, really? I’d love to know which button that is. Must be some sort of dev client, because I don’t have any spammable buttons that do anywhere near that.
