Guild Wars 2

Well a d/d can avoid fights for sure in most cases and has speed to get around the map fast

Tulisin.6945:

covenn.7165:

I disagree and it’s not a quick fix solution. I have been playing stealthers for over a decade across numerous mmo’s. game developers started making it really care bear and that has caused problems over the years. If I make a bad decision, I should pay for it like every other class. However, if I play well and open from stealth I should have a huge advantage over my prey.

That is a nice sentiment, but GW2 stealth doesn’t function like it does in most MMOs. It is specifically built to be used in combat repeatedly. Most thief builds rely on dipping into stealth, if only for a second, to set up from-stealth attacks. If those attacks become only possible once per fight, they’d need to be massively retuned, along with the rest of the profession. Same with on-stealth traits, regen-on-stealth, condition removal on stealth, and many more traits would need to be changed to the new once-per-fight paradigm. Not to mention what such a change would to do PvE.

So, again, there’s nothing wrong with limiting stealth to something you open the fight with, but GW2 isn’t currently built that way, and it’d require a lot more work than a simple change.

I think you are being a little to rigid. Several ways this can be tweaked without requiring an overhaul

In all fairness though, due to the zergy nature of this game… Get out of jail free cards are needed especially when groupability is sacrificed for soloing. However, it has to be reasonable so it isn’t too much.

Tulisin.6945:

covenn.7165:

Tulisin.6945:

Avigrus.2871:

I think that once a thief engages a target, there should be a cooldown before they can re-enter stealth…

There is. The revealed debuff prevents restealthing for 3 seconds after stealth is broken due to landing an attack.

That’s fine but it should be after being completely out of combat instead. I miss the days of playing a stealther that actually had to deal with the consequences of poor decisions.

Not against this idea in principle, but it would mean increasing the damage on most thief abilities to make up for being unable to use stealth offensively for stealth attacks mid-combat, which I don’t believe is something you really want.

It is easy to throw out quick-fix solutions without considering the consequences they’d have on the profession as a whole.

I disagree and it’s not a quick fix solution. I have been playing stealthers for over a decade across numerous mmo’s. game developers started making it really care bear and that has caused problems over the years. If I make a bad decision, I should pay for it like every other class. However, if I play well and open from stealth I should have a huge advantage over my prey. As it stands right now, I can kill most people thanks to the culling/rendering without doing much more than slamming my head against my keyboard.

It’s boring to the point I find myself almost never playing my thief.

Tulisin, with the way stealth is implemented in this game, I have to be drunk to not get away when I want to. Please try to keep it real

Think you need to read his post again Archonis. You missed something there, heh

You should transfer to BG. They could really use some talent NA prime time because it is sorely lacking ATM.

Tulisin.6945:

Avigrus.2871:

I think that once a thief engages a target, there should be a cooldown before they can re-enter stealth…

There is. The revealed debuff prevents restealthing for 3 seconds after stealth is broken due to landing an attack.

That’s fine but it should be after being completely out of combat instead. I miss the days of playing a stealther that actually had to deal with the consequences of poor decisions.

Ripred.4605:

Thieves aren’t OP. They people that play them are just good. I’ve seen this happen in WAY to many games where a bunch of people will actually know how to use something, they kitten the noobs, then the developers nerf it because they don’t like people who are good with something…

Don’t kid yourself and keep it real. My thief is by far the easiest class for me in the game to play 1v1. The skill bar is extremely low to be successful. The actual thieves out there that are good, well we can do some amazing things.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

thieves are easy to handle.
no one should be killed withing the first 5 seconds of a thief encounter.

All you got to do is dodge, dodge, stun, stun, immobilize/daze. and if you are not built that way then good for you since you picked a build that actually does something for your server in WvW.

Thieves that are built for the sole purpose of 1v1s in WvW is pointless. Sure a thief can kill a dolyak fast, but so can any other profession.

The only reason why you see people cry about thieves is because people use thieves to do 1v1 ganks. I’m sure any other profession has the same potential gankability.

You would be correct if culling/rendering weren’t allowing thieves to nearly kill people before appearing on screen… Sometimes not rendering at all.

Vodka.3958:

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

The notion that Sanctum of Rall is home to more adults/parents is showing. Wish I could log in and defend the tiny amount of real estate we’re holding, but it’s Christmas day, and I have my priorities straight.

Hahah doubt it, Blackgate comes out midweek as it has been for the past 5 weeks…

Yes we know. SoR leaves the weekend generally with more points and BG gets more during the week. The coverage differences should be common knowledge now.

ykyk.2740:

covenn.7165:

Jeknar.6184:

And finally BG took the lead…

Scores for 3pm on GMT -3 (9am on PST)

No real surprise given the time. Normal as usual, though I was hoping TC had a better time slot coverage here than us to at least slow them down

Actually the 10 or so of us on TCBL were just crossing our fingers hoping BG will take longer to finish with SoR so they would leave our stuff alone for a little longer lol.

It’s been said many times before that oceanic is TC’s major coverage gap, one we seem to share with SoR. We really can’t spare the help, as much as we would love to.

Ah that’s too bad.

Tynan.6279:

True… Although most of the time I see them getting away if they spec’d right.

Flash, Mist, and RTL is a lot of tools for sure.

Usually I let them RTL into me and dodge the updraft. Most don’t know what to do at that point. Heh

Jeknar.6184:

And finally BG took the lead…

Scores for 3pm on GMT -3 (9am on PST)

No real surprise given the time. Normal as usual, though I was hoping TC had a better time slot coverage here than us to at least slow them down

Tynan.6279:

Corgibuttz.5849:

I think it’s about the fact that it’s so kitten hard to finish off a thief. Other classes, if you are defeated, you die. With the thief it’s, if you are defeated, you just retreat, heal up, and come back and try to snipe that person again. It’s a class where you can be beaten over and over and over again, and never die. You just get to retry the fight over and over until you win. At least in WvW.

The culling bug (late rendering after they should appear after attacking) is certainly helping the class as well.

It’s really annoying to other classes. If they charge into a pair of guys, they better win, or they will die. Having this super mobile class that can not be caught, and can run down any other class just ruins the open world pvp for me.

I have a pistol/dagger thief based around mobility/escapism. I rarely die. I’m bored of that class and playing a few others now, and oh my gosh am I realizing how OP the thief is now. The class is hurting the enjoyment of many people for WvW. No joke.

With my other classes I’m playing I’m learning how to fight different classes, and making use of all my powers. With my thief all I used is regular 1 attack, and Cloak and Dagger, number 5 with my P/D spec. I use that in every fight, vs every class, 1v1, or 1v10. It’s a god kitten joke.

Yet the Ele D/D does the same thing you describe —-> They bail out and come right back with full health and you fail to mention them once, why not? Is it only the stealth?

A d/d ele is easy to stop from running away. They are also easy to avoid in regards to damage spikes. Not only that, the ones that are hard to kill do garbage damage. They are way more versatile than thieves though overall. That is the difference

The reason they are crying is:

1. Culling

2. Even a bad player can be successful with a thief

Thieves aren’t op at all. It just a low skill level bar combined with culling/rendering failure by anet

Draymos.5489:

Well I never been a pvper so Wvw is just there for me for karma and badges. Anet forces people to participate in Wvw whethere they want or not if you want legendary weapons. So people will be upset over classes that come out of nowhere and own multiple people without no recourse.

Sounds like you bought the wrong game bro

Bigger issue to me is bag drops. I have literally hit someone for a single dot tick and gotten a bag with a badge and the next completely kill solo and not get a bag

Hmm I don’t seem to have this issue

Honestly I can kill most people with my thief by pressing two buttons. The class isn’t overpowered if rendering worked right BUT the bar is set really low in regards to skill level required to be successful. Basically a monkey can play a thief.

Unfortunately unless I am drunk or stupid, stealth in this game is a get out of jail free card and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. regardless though, no nerfs needed … Culling and rendering just needs to get fixed.

My ele is vastly more capable and versatile overall, and even it isn’t op

JaredKincade.9761:

Peetee.9406:

JaredKincade.9761:

Is it not considered bad form to buy a second account, station it in the opposing servers BL and watch the Map announcements and where icons are zerging?

I had no idea.

Looks like GW2 is going to get another account from me if this is the case!

What if I told you that screenshot came from someone within ICoa?

Not everyone takes WvW as this super serious all or nothing war, I happen to have friends within the guild and one of them sent me that screenshot in hopes of getting a rise out of someone on the forums.

It succeeded, it was a joke, please don’t take it for anything beyond that.

If a BG player, or God forbid, an ICoa, took a picture of SoR commanders giving orders and posted it here. You SoR, covenn first in line, would come unglued. You’d say we are earning our hackgate reputation, that it is the only reason we are winning because of hacks, that if we were really serious about not letting people hack we’d find this person, and publicly shame him until he moves servers. That we’d have no excuse because we had his account name right here on the forums for all to see.

Knowing enemy movements is much more of an unfair advantage than a single thief that looks like its shooting a few too many short bow #5 (the person frapsing probably had his effects turned down on his comp), or a few people standing in invulnerable spots on the map, but everyone goes insane about that on all sides. Yet no one even raises an eyebrow, in fact they condone it, and say its just a joke.

That thief was just doing it as a joke. And besides, not everyone takes WvW seriously here guys? Can’t you take a joke? Why are you so serious. He just did it to get a rise out of you SoR, and look, it succeeded!

Sorry bud, I never complained about someone cheating so I have no clue why you mentioned me outside of blatantly trolling

Stiv.1820:

covenn.7165:

Stiv.1820:

Oozo.7856:

covenn.7165:

Stiv.1820:

Binafus.8153:

Thiefs are OP, I understand why Thiefs come here and post but it does not change the fact.

Thief are balanced at the higher level of skill cap along all professions. If you have constant trouble with them it just means you are a fairly low skill player. Tough to hear I know. The good news is, you can always get better!

Here are a couple tips.

1) Use your mouse to turn. I know the keyboard has been amazing to turn with since Doom but the mouse really is better

2) Bind your abilities to keys. Clicks has been awesome since Microsoft stole the mouse from Apple but sometimes going backwards is actually better. Weird I know. This going against #1 I know but just trust me.

3) Use the dodge ability. In this game you get a free ability that give you immunity to everything. It’s really weird. I recommend binding it to a key so you can do it faster, just in case you do use this but use the double tap method.

This is just the beginning. Spread your wings and fly!

You aren’t helping your argument by being demeaning to people. Just sayin

When your argument is weak, you pretty much have to fall back to bluster and insults.

Actually if you look through all my posting history, I used to be constructive. It’s become apparent to me in the past couple weeks that trying to help people understand mechanics is like dropping bricks on my head. It’s gotten to the point where I am just going to post information as useless as all the whiners.

Most people know how to dodge, key bind, and mouse move. This isn’t WOW. :p

Well yes, that’s why I said I used to be constructive!

Lmfao… Point taken

Galrond.5972:

If a thief got you from behind with backstab…

it is like… an ele ride the lightning and updraft then change to fire for burst damage that look like one shot kill too.

Yeah, exactly the same… except, that the huge ball of lightning, that takes 3 seconds to reach you is clearly visible, compared to an invisible enemy that appears instantly out of nowhere.

If RTL would instantly teleport you behind your target, then we could talk.

Why people complain about something they can see and avoid is silly. Me? I just let ele’s rtl to me, then I dodge the updraft and collect free bags.

Deano.7913:

Even if it doesn’t remove stealth, damage should be shown to know you hit something. As far as I know everything in this game has a counter, other than dodging and stealth. Everyone can dodge. Just show hit damage even on invisible characters.

Seeing damage numbers would be nice. I think if you hit someone with something other than a dot it should break stealth as a counter for being able to disappear in combat. Not just for thieves though, obviously.

Samhayn.2385:

sachiel.8051:

So, let’s use our story-telling imagination here: You’re bleeding like a stuck pig and turn yourself invisible. Does the blood that hits the ground and separates from you remain invisible? How about your vomit from the poisoning? What about the fire burning your invisible body? Sorry, that first tick on a dot should pop you out of stealth. Maybe we could see the effects of the burning, the trail of blood or if they don’t want to leave a trail of sick on the ground, a trail of green puffs. If a thief were to cleanse themself before stealth, problem solved and I know they can trait for cleanse on stealth as well.

As for aoe’s, you’re saying that ele’s and other aoe heavy classes are screwed for revealing thieves, but warriors and other melee classes are golden? That’s not quite fair as a staff ele would have nothing to “lock on” to, other than drop an aoe field where they THINK the thief might be, but that wouldn’t reveal them. Thiefs, in my opinion, shouldn’t be a class that wades into the middle of the zerg battlefield stealthed, but I could understand them using their stealth to flank the sides while avoiding damage.

If it broke on damage, I’d probably ditch the revealed debuff to compensate.

I honestly think stealth breaking on damage would balance the class quite nicely.

Sure but if we want to go down that road then if I land an attack from stealth you should auto die. I mean you didn’t see me coming and I had time to line up a perfect attack that you had no way to defend.

Or we could keep up with the fact that this is a fantasy game where people shoot fireballs and lighting and can shape change into bears.

Stealth breaking on damage would destroy the survivability of the theif class and would make it so the class would need to be rebuilt from the ground up. It’s a bad idea.

If it was positional sure : p you should stand a 90% chance of winning.

Can you tell I miss the days before game companies decided to make playing a stealth class so freaking easy mode, heh.

Stiv.1820:

Oozo.7856:

covenn.7165:

Stiv.1820:

Binafus.8153:

Thiefs are OP, I understand why Thiefs come here and post but it does not change the fact.

Thief are balanced at the higher level of skill cap along all professions. If you have constant trouble with them it just means you are a fairly low skill player. Tough to hear I know. The good news is, you can always get better!

Here are a couple tips.

1) Use your mouse to turn. I know the keyboard has been amazing to turn with since Doom but the mouse really is better

2) Bind your abilities to keys. Clicks has been awesome since Microsoft stole the mouse from Apple but sometimes going backwards is actually better. Weird I know. This going against #1 I know but just trust me.

3) Use the dodge ability. In this game you get a free ability that give you immunity to everything. It’s really weird. I recommend binding it to a key so you can do it faster, just in case you do use this but use the double tap method.

This is just the beginning. Spread your wings and fly!

You aren’t helping your argument by being demeaning to people. Just sayin

When your argument is weak, you pretty much have to fall back to bluster and insults.

Actually if you look through all my posting history, I used to be constructive. It’s become apparent to me in the past couple weeks that trying to help people understand mechanics is like dropping bricks on my head. It’s gotten to the point where I am just going to post information as useless as all the whiners.

Most people know how to dodge, key bind, and mouse move. This isn’t WOW. :p

FourTwenty.4268:

Cover Girl.2580:

The problem with thiefs is that they can just run away once they realize they suck denying you the proud victory you deserve. That’s excessively annoying

you say that like its unfair or imbalanced though. that’s how they designed the class. the class is NOT designed to face tank you.

if you can’t get over the fact that thieves can and will run away when needed, then you need to play a different game. or prepare for rebalancing. they’d probably let us 1 shot you if they took away our mobility or stealth.

Speaking from the experience of being an old school stealther. That is very care bear. As a purist, you should be forced to pay for bad decisions. It is also part of the reason your class gets so much flak. Unfortunately it generally leads to nerfs.

The only thing I have to say about thieves really is this: the only problem I have with them is when they don’t render for me.

More than a splash IMO

Stiv.1820:

Binafus.8153:

Thiefs are OP, I understand why Thiefs come here and post but it does not change the fact.

Thief are balanced at the higher level of skill cap along all professions. If you have constant trouble with them it just means you are a fairly low skill player. Tough to hear I know. The good news is, you can always get better!

Here are a couple tips.

1) Use your mouse to turn. I know the keyboard has been amazing to turn with since Doom but the mouse really is better

2) Bind your abilities to keys. Clicks has been awesome since Microsoft stole the mouse from Apple but sometimes going backwards is actually better. Weird I know. This going against #1 I know but just trust me.

3) Use the dodge ability. In this game you get a free ability that give you immunity to everything. It’s really weird. I recommend binding it to a key so you can do it faster, just in case you do use this but use the double tap method.

This is just the beginning. Spread your wings and fly!

You aren’t helping your argument by being demeaning to people. Just sayin

Thieves are easy mode in this game, but I am not so sure they are OP. they just have a very low skill cap to be effective

Xirin.8593:

pot.6805:

Is eggnog any good? Never had it and it kinda sounds disgusting

Anything with bourbon can’t be that bad.

Alcohol makes time with the inlaws bearable

I am seriously getting owned in the face by my iPad today. Though I guess the eggnog isn’t helping either

Jayne.9251:

covenn.7165:

Xirin.8593:

covenn.7165:

Tajz.9826:

Jayne.9251:

Dear BG Thai guild,
We hear you knockin’ but you can’t come in!
Love,
TCBL
Also, three times with the NPC commander? lol cute.

I hope you enjoy our present, painted all green in your borderland topping with golems :P
Merry Xmas TC!

Must be exciting playing by yourself. Personally, I prefer having people to fight.

The two people you quoted were playfully ribbing each other.

Your comment was filled with angst and bitterness.

Amazing.

Huh? Complete interpretation failure on your part there buddy if that’s what you think.

It’s Christmas, don’t be so serious and uptight bro.

Nope Xirin was right. We were just bantering back and forth will no ill will. In fact Tajz was quite respectful and nice in his previous post about our efforts on TC to keep them out!

Just think everyone’s hip deep in eggnog and cookies this morning on TC. Ah well, I’m proud we’ve managed to hold our own so far this week, considering a good number of us figured we’d get smooshed.

Now be nice BG and SoR and give us back our toys or I’ll tell mom!

I didn’t say he was wrong about you. I said he was wrong about his interpretation of my post Read it again : p

I am seldom serious about anything let alone gaming forums

Tajz.9826:

Jayne.9251:

Dear BG Thai guild,
We hear you knockin’ but you can’t come in!
Love,
TCBL
Also, three times with the NPC commander? lol cute.

I hope you enjoy our present, painted all green in your borderland topping with golems :P
Merry Xmas TC!

Must be exciting playing by yourself. Personally, I prefer having people to fight.

The old days of MMOs when a stealther couldn’t restealth in combat and even had to be out of combat for a period of time before doing so. When you had to pick and choose your targets carefully and bad decisions actually would cost you.

Predator.7321:

That’s really what distinguishes higher tier server and lower tier servers is the will to fight day and night and I believe our community will keep fighting no matter what.
We have very dedicated guilds and commanders

It is not just will, it is ability. You can’t fight day and night if you don’t have the people.

ykyk.2740:

I thought BG was supposed to have the epic oceanic force and SoR’s weak spot is oceanic timing! Lies, all lies :P

Weekend. Well that and a holiday week, I dont expect much to be normal for anyone.

cannedflame.3597:

Sad that one loudmouth from SoR ruins the apparent sportsmanship of the entire server…

Oh don’t be on of those people. Abokittenely silly thing to say.

Apparently saying ab-so-lut-ely is violation of tos? Forum code fail.

JaredKincade.9761:

(yawn) WvW isn’t won in a day, or a weekend or even a week.

When SoR beats us 5 weeks in a row, start posting your ss.

You are right, on typical weeks WvW is won during the time slots where one server has superior coverage over another. Which is why classy people or people with a clue about how the game works typically wont point to the scoreboard and brag about it.

Anyways, with this being a holiday week, things might get shaken up quite a bit. People on at different hours due to no work/school, server commanders away for the holiday, etc.

On a serious note, thanks for bringing it TC. Last night was the first time during my normal play time in quite a while where I wasn’t just face rolling the other two servers and keeping them on farm status the entire night. You had me jumping all over the map to keep up and not only were you bring the pain to us, but you were bringing it to BG equally. /salute

Kysin.6349:

I completely agree with you good sir. It is just that those extremely vocal trolls on these forums week after week from SoR never (not that I have seen) get talked down by other SoR. In fact, some other SoR guilds have joined in the trolling. Not saying BG has been perfect in this manner in by any means, but there are a number of us who try to point out when other BG players are out of line etc.

The grass is always greener isn’t it? The truth is that both sides are equally guilty of it and you aren’t any ‘better’ at keeping people in check. honestly it is a silly thing to say and you are just trolling yourself.

Everyone is bringing the pain tonight. I like

JaredKincade.9761:

Its amazing how this thread it SILENT for 2 days while BG is wiping up SOR. Then BG takes a day off and SOR gets some points for 4 hours and flips a few POIs and all hell breaks lose. Do you see us “smack talking” every other day we lead the PPT?

First of this is a total fail troll. Anyone can see for themselves that the posts in the thread have been active. So you are wrong.

Secondly, you havent lead PPT a single time I have played this entire week during primetime. I have no idea what you are talking about. In fact Bg has been on farm status in every zone/time I have been playing in recently.

Thirdly, yes some of you have been talking smack about it daily. However, that is generaly frowned upon in the forums and the posts tend to disappear.

Eh, ele downed state is kind meh. Anyone with half a brain is going to keep the ele from getting back through the door anyways. Classic example of learn to play.

Esoteric.5490:

Disclaimer: _Blackgate is not a bandwagon destination and has not been a bandwagon destination for some time at this point in the game. Bandwagons are a thing of the past.

Complete myth. When guilds leave servers with good fighting to pile on servers in time slots that already have a distinct advantage, that is the very definition of bandwagoning.

Players and guilds that aren’t bandwagoners leave more populated/successful servers to fill spots in other servers for more competitive fighting instead of piling on. That is the difference.

Vodka.3958:

I still think that Blackgate deserves to be in T1 after winning for a month straight and more than likely this week as well… Just like many SoR think they deserve to be in T1. It’s only a matter of time until one server gives in and WvW guilds begin transferring out (or dieing out). The only question is which server will be effected more.

Maybe on points alone, but you guys are still very weak prime time NA.

SoR can bring the pain during a small window, that is it. It has a long way to go coverage wise before we can be considered anything other than a T2 server. In fact, if we weren’t so dominate at prime time, we wouldnt even have the coverage for T2 with our recent exodus of off peak players.

Mogar.9216:

E Kay.9236:

Mogar.9216:

(…)

Ok I concede to your superior tactics . You try that out next time when you try to get away from 6 v 1 and let me know how it works out for you.

6 on 1? “Well, get some extra guys and then it’ll be a fair fight.” – James T. Kirk

Seriously though, in WvW if you get out alive of such odds, you are extremely good AND the 6 against you are VERY bad. This is not a problem with the class.

Do as I posted and you will get away 90% of the time. if you use signet of air for your underwater set you will get away from even good gps.

Just as easy to get away from 50 as it is 6 using RTL and your cool downs.

MarzAttakz.9608:

6v1 – screw it I’d rather fight using those cooldowns and then die. Why people so kitten afraid of losing. HTFU. Chances are good you’ll put any allies in a good position to take those 6 out by standing your ground.

I don’t give anyone an easy kill on me ever. I will fight those 6 if I stand a reasonable chance of winning though. Last night I killed that many plus a couple with the help of guards by jumping in and out of a keep door. /shrug