Guild Wars 2

DAOC managed to have massive open world fights by optimizing how models displayed. You got a very minimalistic, low detail view of an enemy player at first to minimize lag. Amazing how they could handle huge fights with all the models on screen and playable lag, despite the hardware limitations at the time.

Just goes to show you that current game developers are sacrificing performance and playability for shinies.

DAOC did not have culling Celeras.

SWTOR ultimately failed because they couldn’t fix their culling and the community wanting large open world fights left the game.

Caelib.2497:

It probably wont matter because the Blackgate bandwagon got a lot bigger this week because instead of it being a fairly balanced match, now BG has 24/7 coverage with 75+ zergs in all four BLs.

I don’t know for sure, but it seems like IOJ dropped and BG got stronger … did a bunch of people from IOJ ragequit to BG?

Well BG also got some bandwagoners from SoR as well. Another minor power shift in their direction.

fivekiller.1432:

SOR is the NA behemoth in this tier and I think its going to be interesting to see what effect having another NA stacked server will have if any. TC will be hard pressed to pull NA pimetime numbers to match SOR. I say this knowing full well what kind of NA population TC has.

Its kind of funny that you mention this, but twice during NA prime time I have zoned in to WvW with an outmanned buff. Probably the holiday effect, but you guys have actually had more than us at least those two nights / zones.

Who cares? Is isn’t OP and only requires people to switch up tactics a bit in sieges. Besides, what other purpose does a focus have for those ele’s, I am under the impressions that aside from swirling winds, it is quite useless.

yarz widowmaker.5893:

JaredKincade.9761:

Well, I apologize for the part my posts played in closing the last thread and solomnly promise not to debase or critisize servers in general.

Now, i think this is on topic, i hope so.

There are several top BG guilds willing to GvG, especially later in the week, if other guilds were to privately contact the their leaders. So far the rules have been to keep specifics and bragging off the forums, and Im sure they will stay that way.

There was fun, and good sportsmenship to be found, and no chest thumping or flameing as a result. Good times overall i think.

Anyway, hope that’s on topic.

Please PM me in game so that I can pass this on in the game to our leader and we can set this up.

Thanks,

Yeah no doubt. Thanks for responding to my question from the locked thread Jared.

Thanks for the clarification. It really doesn’t seem like it to me though.

However if this is 100% the case, then I will have to amend my prior statements and say that the trial has been the best.

JaredKincade.9761:

Im not saying BG is number 1. We are number 4. Soon we may move up a notch, but dont dismiss our recruiting and determination as blind numbers games. Because thats just not the case

Part of the problem is that few vocal people in BG like to publicly brag about the score when it doesn’t accurately reflect reality when the other servers actually have numbers online to be competitive. I would venture to say that this is what is causing you to be so defensive, well how people react to it anyways.

JaredKincade.9761:

Fair enough.

BG guilds are fighting other guilds. We fought all night. However, part of the rules were no forum postings on it. Which is why i wont say which guilds or who won. We had a lot of fun.

Who in BG is doing this? I am fairly certain there are some guilds in SoR that would love to take them up on that as well. Certainly you can tell me who is participating without violating your rules by saying who won.

Tajz.9826:

The fact that those people you called bandwagoner chose us because they see our potential, they see their new home. We dont call them bandwagoner just like some troll here trying to say, instead we accept them with open arms, welcoming all crew to furfil our goal.

Seriously, what is up with calling everyone a troll you disagree with? Is that the cool thing to do?

Regardless of what happens, I would take much of anything to heart. With the holidays coming up for the new matchup, things definitely will not be normal.

I would love for some of the guild between servers to fight each other in some of the out of the way places to prove that point, but unfortunately the BG guilds seem unwilling to. Not sure why, because it would be fun for everyone

Regarding the rest, you can say what you will about how awesome you think you are. The truth of the matter is that if IOJ/SoR/BG had the exact same level of coverage around the clock, the weekly scores would be separated between all three by less than 10k each and every week, regardless of who the winner was.

Why? Because the skill level around the clock is fairly equal between us once you take coverage out of the equation.

@Jaredkincade’s wall of text:

Don’t fool yourself into thinking it has anything to do with reputation. It is called bandwagoning and it happens to every server that has success. It happened on my original server when we got to T1/T2 and it is happening to BG now.

It is both a normal and common, and BG hasn’t been exempt from it because they are doing something ‘different’ than other servers.

Liquid.9672:

While I understand the disappointment, the fact is, none of us have the right to judge what a guild does

Well actually you are wrong. Everyone has the right to come to their own conclusions and make their own judgments.

Personally, I never understood bandwagoners as I have always preferred the challenge of fighting against the odds. I totally get that other people aren’t like that and prefer everything to be easy for them. To each their own, but telling people they have no right to their opinion is silly.

My opinion on the matter is this:

Who cares? Judging by the PPT we were losing during that time slot anyways, their impact was negligible on the weekly outcome. I am curious how they will handle T1 if they ever get there with BG if they couldn’t handle adversity in T2. Should be interesting to see.

marquees.6230:

Just because some ego bloated individual tries to speak for the whole of our server, doesn’t make all of us unsportsman. Yes, I know there are some, err, not so friendly individuals even in my guild but don’t think that all of us are like this. Quite many of us are friendly and I always bow or salute any SoR or IoJ I fight in the field.

So I’m here to make it somewhat the opposite. FREE HUGS FOR ALL! :P

I like most of the rest of you and its really not fair to you all that your GM is drawing so much agro your way.

@Kanji -

It is what it is. It is normal for people that dislike competition or can’t handle it to bandwagon. Personally, I find it boring and lacking in challenge which is why I prefer to play with the underdogs. To each their own I guess and I suspect this was no real big loss one way or another, they certainly weren’t doing enough work off hours to make a difference anyways while on our side.

Horrible → Best → Ok → Horrible

I am still under the opinion that this has been rolled all the way back. There first attempt at tweaking it has been the best overall performance gain. The trial was a slight downgrade from that, but still playable. Now it is just pure garbage.

Lalnuir.4957:

Icoa and their bg allies proving there tactical superiority by using their portal to try and reinforce hills instead of the big wide open gate and running straight into our waiting aoes earlier today.
Thanks for the loot bags. <3

Yeah I am not sure what the idea behind that was. I did get a good laugh out of it though.

Ardon.4105:

Unfortuantely, doing this without interference would be difficult. This is why we need Guild Vs Guild.

I still think it could be arranged if KNT was interested. There are a few spots where the likelyhood of people joining in on the fight will be minimal.

Habib Loew.6239:

Our trial of a new, interim culling methodology ran from 12/7 – 12/14 and has now ended. The primary change that we were testing was giving allies and enemies distinct culling pools such that allies couldn’t impact enemy culling and enemies couldn’t impact ally culling. We have now reinstated the prior system which uses a single culling pool for all characters.

Habib, did you revert this change all the way back to how it was at release of the game? It seems to be worse now than before the last test -and- the prior change to it a few weeks ago. Can we get some clarification on this?

Anyways, here is my opinion in large scale WvW fights:

Original Culling – Worst
First Culling Change – Best
Recent Culling Test – Medium
Current – Seems pretty bad

fivekiller.1432:

What some people are doing is trying to create the illusion that our BG guilds suck on the forums

Your words, not mine friend. There is no illusion, only reality.

Listen, all of this arguing about playing low level toons in WvW is disgraceful. Consider this fact. We could all reroll new characters and step out into WvW in greens with half of our abilities unlocked and STILL farm badges from Icoa and KNT all night.

So lets keep it civil please and make our moderators job easy. Thanks in advance friends.

Indo.8629:

covenn.7165:

Vodka.3958:

Farming TW badges are probably my second favorite hobby with my first being farming TWL badges.

I just caught this.

Indo, if Icoa is farming your junior varsity guild and its their favorite thing to do… you should cut the entire lot of them.

haha, I missed that, actually I’d even put the TW recruit guild against ICOA any day of the week in guild v guild.

Oh snap

Indo.8629:

covenn.7165:

On a side note, I finally got the courage up to /death myself. Embarrassing is all I have to say about that. How the heck have I died 368 times. Thats what I get for playing a squishy.

It counts your pve deaths also sadly.

Actually, that makes me feel better. I have died way more to mobs than to players. I go glass cannon when I am event farming and I get bent over and violated a whole lot by packs.

Fortunately I am done with my alternate gear set, so WvW farming is all I need to do these days.

Vodka.3958:

Farming TW badges are probably my second favorite hobby with my first being farming TWL badges.

I just caught this.

Indo, if Icoa is farming your junior varsity guild and its their favorite thing to do… you should cut the entire lot of them.

On a side note, I finally got the courage up to /death myself. Embarrassing is all I have to say about that. How the heck have I died 368 times. Thats what I get for playing a squishy.

Smokee.1754:

Actually we found ourselfs farming TW ( and other SoR ) badges just a few days ago in SoR bay for a few hours when they outnumbered us 3-1. Also I have never been able to “pvdoor” against SoR. Fact is you got some strong times and some weak times, just as any other server does.

In the Sanctum of Rall borderland a few days ago? Are you sure about that. Just curious because Icoa and Knt claim to be farming TW badges at the same time in the BG borderland.

Hmm… the plot thickens.

Vodka.3958:

covenn.7165:

Vodka.3958:

It’s called stating facts :P It is completely different. Keep it up covenn I really don’t mind playing this troll game with you.

sigh The thing is, I am not trolling you. I am trying to help you.

You are complaining about people giving your guild a lot of flak, right? I am telling you that your posting habits are part of the reason. Just chill out a little and try not being so confrontational. I am willing to be the garbage being spewed in your direction will die down. Relax man. Really.

It’s not even that man, and it’s not even about me… It’s about the guild I am in and what we have accomplished. Its reputation will not be tainted by old accounts that have already been dealt with and I will go the whole 9 yards to make sure we get the respect we deserve. I understand that this is a silly thing to you; but unless you were a Guild Leader like myself that has turned absolutely nothing into something revered on something we spent over 1000 hours on; then we will never see eye-to-eye. Believe that.

Don’t assume I haven’t been a guild leader or personally responsible for the success of a guild friend.

Anyways, defending your guild is not silly. What I am telling you is that it will be far easier for you to defend your guild if you have solid footing to stand upon. Lighten up on the hot sauce a bit in the forums. The reason why I keep telling you this is because your current habits are both inviting and giving people cause to make jabs at you. It is counter productive to what you are wanting.

Not to mention, it is giving our forum moderator fits. Lets give them a break maybe.

Vodka.3958:

Well with us being the main NA guilds during your primetime I can see why that is :P Farming TW badges are probably my second favorite hobby with my first being farming TWL badges. Really having an awesome time I’ve never made so many badges in such a short time. Keep it up SoR your doing fantastic

I really wish this were the case. I am really longing for a fight that is somewhat close. Recently the competition has been so lacking in open field fights, that I find myself really not enjoying them unless we are outnumbered at least 2 to 1.

Oh well, here to hoping for some new blood.

Vodka.3958:

It’s called stating facts :P It is completely different. Keep it up covenn I really don’t mind playing this troll game with you.

sigh The thing is, I am not trolling you. I am trying to help you.

You are complaining about people giving your guild a lot of flak, right? I am telling you that your posting habits are part of the reason. Just chill out a little and try not being so confrontational. I am willing to be the garbage being spewed in your direction will die down. Relax man. Really.

Phoenix.7069:

Vodka, Im not begging for transfers in the slightest but in all honesty after 5 weeks of this matchup alot of us want a change, I hope you guys earn enough points to move to T1 even if SoR and IoJ gets our kitten handed to us by a T1 server it’ll at least be a change.

How dare you try to take away my source of livelyhood and income in this game. Those be fighting words sir.

Vodka.3958:

? your actually a terrible troll making unproductive posts… Keep it up and this thread will get closed without a doubt

Vodka.3958:

If it’s so pathetic then why are you begging to get transfers onto your server? Grade A hypocrite…

Irony.

Read what you write bro. Really I am trying to help you. I like having you on the boards and not off on temporary vacations.

Xirin.8593:

Indo.8629:

I’m at 58k kills now, and I think about 18-20k of those kills came directly from either ICOA or KnT.

Your two zerg guilds really like to feed me.

Just saying…

covenn.7165:

Meh. Who really cares about kill totals? A little can be said for your kill to death ratio, but total kills is more about time spent playing than anything else. People put far too much weight into meaningless stats like that.

It isnt is kill total that is impressive Xirin. It is the fact that he has died exactly 3 times total in WvW. Twice by falling off of cliffs and once when a wolf summoned a few too many pack members for him to handle.

Esoteric.5490:

Fray was talking about Alice, a player from Urge who has the highest that I’ve seen at what I believe is 51k. I haven’t heard of a higher amount either so that was what his claim was. I realize that the intent was to compare, but a commander who gets a lot of kills isn’t necessarily a good commander. I have 10k kills and 1.5k deaths in a LOT of hours in WvW.

Meh. Who really cares about kill totals? A little can be said for your kill to death ratio, but total kills is more about time spent playing than anything else. People put far too much weight into meaningless stats like that.

Esoteric.5490:

Finally, ICoa has received a lot of unnecessary flak the last few weeks. The original kitten was dealt with and the fact that people keep stirring it up is just ignorant.

Yeah, the past transgressions probably need to be laid to rest. However, it makes it difficult for people to let it go when Vodka keeps calling attention to himself and his guild with his behavior and bragging. I have to assume he is trolling everyone …or there are bigger issues at play here

Anyways, can’t we all just get along and play nicely?

Esoteric.5490:

Every server has its holes in coverage. We are aware of this, but we don’t bring it up. It would be really nice if you didn’t bring out the laundry list of excuses on account of the fact you didn’t win. Honestly, it’s pretty immature. Fights have been competitive and I don’t know why you’d try to discount that by bringing up the “coverage wars”.

Quite a long winded post and it seems like you are responding to several people at once and trying to lump them all together as one. That doesn’t work overly well and I wouldnt recommend it.

Like you said, every server has different coverage issues and different levels of coverage issues and it affects each server differently. Given this, the absolute epitomy of this immaturity that you speak of and the perfect example of lacking in class is when someone brags about winning every other post. Wouldn’t you agree friend?

I have to wonder if they are trying different things on different pairings or servers this week. There can really be no other explanation for half the people saying it is remarkably worse and the other half saying its a great improvement.

I can tell you that on my server literally everyone is having major culling issues, so much to the point that it is nearly unplayable in large fights. Sure the models do completely render at times, but it is often 5-6s too late. That is unacceptable.

Not only arent we seeing friendlies, but less enemies than we were prior to this week as well by a large margin.

Please tell me this garbage change is going away tonight. Everyone in our borderlands are reporting the same problems and that it makes it damn near unplayable in large fights.

If you want to test something to see if it works, I love the idea. However, you really shouldn’t leave code in place for a full week when it is obvious that is has failed horrible after the first 24 hours. This is poor decision making when you refuse to regard the negative impact on your customers.

buki.3108:

Not really. SoR won the weekend – obviously the better server in the mix.

I have to agree with these kind of statements. The weekend play is generally where coverage issues matter the least because most people aren’t working, or for the younger players, in school.

In other words, I am not so sure you should be bragging OP.

Fevess.7658:

Doomdesire.9365:

Too much to handle for SoR. Most of our guys have been staying up late, and it’s finals week(at least here in NA, not to sure about EU/Oceanics), so the fact that we even got a lead shows that either SoR is made of a bunch of procrastinators who refuse to study, or we pulled off a miracle…

O.o 12yr olds don’t have finals….

0/5 stars sir. You have to do better than that.

Reslinal.2359:

We are going to crush your prime time tonight as well covenn, the pain train is coming today, hahaha….

See this I can respect. I look forward to it.

Vodka.3958:

Hope you’re enjoying your lead while it lasts, SoR.

I could care less about the lead Vodka. The only thing I can realistically worry about is the PPT when I am online and dominating that. I can’t do anything about what happens in the middle of the day while I am at work, so there is no point in stressing about it. You have better coverage than us and coverage is > *, but it is honestly nothing that is brag worthy.

Vodka.3958:

Several reasons? There shouldn’t be ANY reason for insulting ICoa since we’ve already dealt with the only negative problem that we have encountered.

Well there is the perception you give people based on the things you post and the manner in which you post it that is drawing some insults. Just being honest with you.

You can only hit 5 people, but 50 can hit you at once.

I totally get why they are doing it. Basically they are trying to prevent situations where AE rules everything. I am just not entirely sure that 5 is the right number given that siege hits everything. For example, one player in a bunker build can out AE someone geared and traited for AE as long as he/she/it is on an arrow cart… and sacrifice nothing open field.

Habib Loew.6239:

Thank you for your feedback everyone. Currently our plan is to continue this test for the remainder of this week’s matchup and then roll back to the original method for the next matchup.

Shouldn’t you roll this back immediately? It has completely failed across the board and is negatively affecting game play for all but a handful of outliers.

FourTwenty.4268:

how is this an issue in MMOs(ive seen this issue with laggy open world pvp before), but not in an FPS?

Is the issue 100% the gear/armor? Seems like with projectiles and collision detection, an FPS should have a harder time than the standard MMO.

Simply put, bad design.

All the details are great, but not at the expense of playability. If I could engage in a fight with a hundred players on screen 8 years ago with little lag and all players showing up perfectly in a different game, there is no reason why this can’t be done with current technology given vast computing and bandwidth performance increases that have happened since then.

What is inexcusable is that this isn’t really a ‘test’ when they don’t roll back the changes when it fails. They basically threw a garbage solution onto the live servers and are leaving us to deal with it.

Why hasn’t this been reverted yet? Pretty inexcusable to leave something obviously not working in game this long.

Indo.8629:

Here is a video of TW vs TL from last night.

Enjoy.

We had a blast TL, thanks for not leaving the zone like other guilds do.

Now that I am back from ‘vacation’ … nice fights for sure.