Guild Wars 2

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

covenn.7165:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Yeah honestly I’d rather see BG’s “We’re PvDoor #1” juvenile trash talking to the false sympathetic, patronizing kitten we’re getting from SoR these days.

Well I haven’t been faking sympathy or patronizing your server personally. I have been being respectful to your situation and genuine the entire time.

Maybe you should lighten up a little.

My post wasn’t directed at you Covenn. It was directed at the person I quoted, Indo, and a few others. I’ve loved fighting Choo and FEAR in-game and will honestly miss you guys when you are gone.

I won’t miss people like the person I quoted originally though at all.

Fair enough. It just seemed like you were being more generalized with that comment when I read it. Its all good.

Also regarding gear….

Please don’t run around in all zerker gear. You die way too fast, ultimately do less damage in the long run, cause rallies, and are a draw on your team mates. If you do go high damage, make sure you have a decent level of survivability mixed in.

This is similiar to what they did in DAOC back in the day and it worked wonders to reduce lag and stutters in large fights. They also had no culling.

You could also help this situation some by reporting the models to the client earlier, i.e. before they are in visual range. That way the client is already aware of them before they load on screen.

DAOC did this as well for performance reasons. Sure you would get what we called ‘lagdar’ when off screen models were reported to the client, but it was much much preferrable to not seeing people at all.

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Yeah honestly I’d rather see BG’s “We’re PvDoor #1” juvenile trash talking to the false sympathetic, patronizing kitten we’re getting from SoR these days.

Well I haven’t been faking sympathy or patronizing your server personally. I have been being respectful to your situation and genuine the entire time.

Maybe you should lighten up a little.

Lets try this again…

Can an officer/gm from Choo shoot me a pm when you get a moment? If not, I will grab someone in game tonight.

danke

OldRodKS.9758:

covenn.7165:

Can an officer/gm shoot me a pm when you get a moment? If not, I will grab someone in game tonight.

danke

Server? Guild? Or will any old officer/gm from any server do?

Wow…. sorry about that. I failed on my post. I do that sometimes while multitasking (read: ADDing out) at work

Orikx.9671:

Were you in Irony?

Yes.

I was surfing in Nicaragua though when the actual move happened. So I had to wait until I got back.

Regarding the rest, I didnt realize Fate came over then as well. Of course I was out of country at the time, heh.

With our cantrips selected properly for what you are doing, you can shed P/T/V quite a bit if you want to go more damage. I wouldn’t recommend it full time, but it is the reason I keep two gear sets. Never go full glass cannon as a bunker ele unless you enjoyed getting insta gibbed. You can, however, sacrifice some toughness/heal power/whatever to increase crit damage and crit chance significantly, while still keeping your health in the mid 19k

Of course, I can do this a bit easier than some people I see with what they are running because I dont use any + condition damage whatsoever. I am under the opinion through hundreds of hours of play as well as testing, that it is nearly worthless for an ele because we cant keep enough stacks on enough targets to make the trade off worthwhile.

Asura is the superior choice in WvW for many of the reasons listed above.

For situational purposes in WvW, like choke points or lord rooms, Radiation field is borderline OP. Weakness and poison from the same field that stays up for 15s.

I saw the argument about glyph of storms being better, and I disagree. The sandstorm blindness will stop one out of every three attacks from someone while they are in it. If you opt for the ice storm instead, it isnt doing anything more than frozen ground really, the diff being the duration is 10s.

Yeah I mentioned staff for those circumstance even though I am primarily D/D because those are the correct times to actually use your staff.

From a PvP perspective we really only have one way to go, with minor variations, to be viable. People will try to tell you otherwise, but it simply isn’t accurate. Can you make other builds work? Yes. Will they work as well? No. In WvW you can add staff as viable, but only in certain situations. Outside of those situations, it is pretty bad.

I know people see silly vids of small groups of people destroying large zergs while using a glass cannon staff ele and get the wrong impression. The truth is that for every video these people make, there are 500 other situations where the enemy actually has one competent player that uses a gap closer and 3 shots the 14k hp glass cannon ele.

All in all the ele class is in a fair state. Some abilities and weapons need improvement to break ele’s out of cookie cutters. Some broken things need to be fixed.

ykyk.2740:

covenn.7165:

I transferred off of JQ to SoR months ago because steam rolling everyone as the #1 server (at the time) got boring. Much like I would get bored quickly if the status quo in this tier stays the same.

No shame in going from the number one server to a T6 server imo.

Honestly, up until this week we have been the underdog server for a long time. Once we get to T1, we will be the underdog server there as well.

Of course there is no shame, I think it’s an amazing thing if you guys just picked a T6 server with a cool name to move to. Feels alot better than making some massive alliance into a tier 8 server to roll your way up cough

Sorry for derailing, my question has been answered.

The only collusion I know of in regards to moving servers was that my old guild and TW decided to go to the same place from JQ as we had a long history of gaming together (well against each other actually). I am not personally aware of anyone else involved in that. Of course, my guild at the time had like 6 active players in this game and TW was much smaller than it is now. So it definitely wasn’t a mass of people, heh.

Edit: I dont know how many actives Indo had at the time, but if I were to guess combined it was probably around 30 players total that moved at the same time.

OutspokenAardvark.9781:

For the record, I would pick BG keeping us at 45 PPT for 2 weeks and learn something rather than an inflated server with an even more inflated ego that refuses to bring the hurt out of cowardice.

If you would prefer to have BG back calling you weak, saying you suck, and relentlessly pointing to the scoreboard more power to you. You will have them back in short order.

Personally, I prefer the truth. You dont have the people off NA primetime to compete for points. I am also going to be sympathetic towards that because I was in the same situation for 2+ months. You know, going to sleep ahead in points only to have all the hard work disappear over night and while I was at work.

Call that general sentiment patronizing if you want, but be warned that it reeks of immaturity when you do.

I transferred off of JQ to SoR months ago because steam rolling everyone as the #1 server (at the time) got boring. Much like I would get bored quickly if the status quo in this tier stays the same.

No shame in going from the number one server to a T6 server imo.

Honestly, up until this week we have been the underdog server for a long time. Once we get to T1, we will be the underdog server there as well.

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

covenn.7165:

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

It is not about SOR. (run that again in your head one more time).

Its about the game as enjoyment, Wvw as it is played and three server communities that make up a Tier and in this case Tier 2. What you argue is good for SOR is not good for the tier…… for the rest of us in this thread. There is no solid argument any of you have made to convince me of that. Now it may be that the Tier’s health, problems and fun quotient is not really your problem or concern.

At least be honest about it.

Like I said, when this shakes out, TC most likely won’t be in T2 anymore anyways to worry about this. I suspect you will be back in T3 due specifically to 2 other servers on the way up.

I suspect karma will catch up with SOR and you are actually better off hiding in T2. TC got here and made it here without a mass wagon train. I doubt we are going anywhere….. and whenever we end up we will be giving all we have and never opting to avoid a fight because it might be difficult somewhere else.

there is a word for that……just saying.

Your post is nonsense.

SoR got to T2 and was on the receiving end of two servers with vastly superior coverage for months, and never gave up. We also made it here with out the ‘mass wagon’ train and in fact actually lost people over that time frame.

So yeah you are right, Karma will catch up with SoR. It already has. We finally got the coverage we were lacking.

1. Faster projectile speed.

2. Start damage with animation on some abilities instead of after.

All the AE’s can be easily avoided, meteor shower is too unpredictable (but enhancing it will cause people to cry… dunno why), and our projectiles move far too slow and most can be easily avoided.

Oh, and absolutely do not change static field. It is the best ability a staff ele has.

Tumbero.3945:

A lot of SBI transfered to SoR mostly anyway im proud to stay here and say 15 SBI kill all the 60 randoms and mostly all the people who only roll to a top server, cause they dont know to pvp =) 1 v10 fair and i win.

You won a 1 v 10 ? Impressive despite how bad or uplevelled they may have been.

Best I have done is 1 v 7

Sins Vorkag.5218:

All I gotta say is most of you are in trouble once you can’t Culling Bomb™

I disagree. There are plenty of big fights where culling doesnt cause it to be over in the first few seconds. I am quite sure most people have experience with this.

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

It is not about SOR. (run that again in your head one more time).

Its about the game as enjoyment, Wvw as it is played and three server communities that make up a Tier and in this case Tier 2. What you argue is good for SOR is not good for the tier…… for the rest of us in this thread. There is no solid argument any of you have made to convince me of that. Now it may be that the Tier’s health, problems and fun quotient is not really your problem or concern.

At least be honest about it.

Like I said, when this shakes out, TC most likely won’t be in T2 anymore anyways to worry about this. I suspect you will be back in T3 due specifically to 2 other servers on the way up.

Shrouded.6450:

Really depends on what type of insults, you’re referring to actually. Mind telling us what got you riled up? Havent really seen anyone in our server insulting the people whp transferred.

You didn’t see the posts before the moderators deleted them then.

SintLucifer.4206:

(1 have seen meteor shower hit for 3k)

Are you seriously complaining about a meteor shower hit for 3k damage. That is like 1/9th of the average players health pool in WvW, and not only that, the ele hitting you that hard is most likely full glass cannon.

Add in the fact that the meteor that hit you was random, the ability is a channel, and there is even chance that you dont get hit by any meteors while standing in the area of effect… I am wondering exactly what you are complaining about.

Even if we say that you average getting hit by two meteors (its more like 1 at best) while in the area of effect during duration, the actual dps of the ability is extremely low given its duration. Even from a glass cannon with you taking two crits from him, it is still low dps given the duration of the spell.

Basically you are complaining about a low overall damage ability, that does completely unreliable or consistent damage, that is an interruptable channel, and has an extremely long cool down.

let me put it to you this way, even if meteor shower had no cool down, any half way decent ele wouldn’t sit there and spam it because the damage blows overall.

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

aoe does do high damage when applied by multiple people. removing the cap increases the gap between single target and AOE damage.
balancing wvw much more in favor of aoe classes.

its a sticky situation. fact of the matter is that aoe is very powerful.

They could make certain effects like meteor shower and such only do damage to those that the meteors actually hit. same with other object effects.

maybe they could make the effects not overlap. so that people take the damage from only the most damaging effect. or add in a aoe dimishing returns effect so that the first aoe does full effect. the second half and so on over the course of a few seconds.

This tilts things in favor of coordinated groups who can time the ae effects better than a zerg can.

I disagree with you 100% ….people can ignore AE currently, aside from siege AE, and do simply by stacking on top of one another.

You also are kind if clueless about meteor shower. Half the time you can stand inside of the AoE and not even take damage from a single meteor. Who a meteor hits and when during the duration is random. It is a low dps ability on average and is completely unreliable.

Also, there is already a severe diminishing return on AoE. Any target after the first 5 it hits, takes 0 damage.

Hjulstad.6317:

1 thing would fix all the zerging.. player collisions.. So you cant run in a blob, and you can make a meat shield for your ranged DPS etc, that would fix sooo much

That has been tried and it ultimately causes more problems than its worth. At least in the implementations I saw in other games. In fact, your entire game has to be designed around it from the beginning in order for it to work mechanically.

I am not trolling or being mean by saying this, but I don’t think TC is ultimately going to have to worry about SoR or BG in T2. Judging by the two lower tier servers that got an influx of players both NA and oceanic, I am willing to bet they will be the ones in T2 when this shakes out instead of TC. This, however, will be a good thing for TC because they wont face coverage problems as severely and will have more fun in the long run.

covenn.7165:

Maladon.5760:

Almost forgot to post pics from last nights fights! Pretty fun night overall, had a few more run-ins with TC than normal…they had quite a force out there.

Pic 1 – Leaving bags on the ground nearby is ok
Pic 2 – Leaving bags way over there is not ok
Pic 3 – Action shot from guild group vs zerg battle (I’m about to get smacked!)

It is best to just leave them in a pile on the ground in front of you neatly arranged.

Of course, sometimes you have to keep whacking at the pinata until it explodes…

Maladon.5760:

Almost forgot to post pics from last nights fights! Pretty fun night overall, had a few more run-ins with TC than normal…they had quite a force out there.

Pic 1 – Leaving bags on the ground nearby is ok
Pic 2 – Leaving bags way over there is not ok
Pic 3 – Action shot from guild group vs zerg battle (I’m about to get smacked!)

It is best to just leave them in a pile on the ground in front of you neatly arranged.

CrassBippy.4619:

These fixes are pointless. Ok sooooo a Zerg can’t use aoe then? Would you prefer a Zerg aoes a door and you cannot go through anymore due to their sheer numbers? Removing a cap won’t solve anything besides make a lot more people die since aoe does high damage

Except AoE doesnt do high damage.

Mira.4906:

Well, it is the main focus for the enternal battlegrounds and whoever owns it doesn’t give it up without a fight and that fight usually involves most of the people on the map for the 2 or 3 servers that want it.

Also since this is about lag there is nothing in the updates that should be able to fix it as the issue is on your end and not their servers. Player culling is about the only thing that they can fix so you dont fight invisible enemies.

The short answer to fixing this is to buy/upgrade to a better computer.

This isn’t exactly right. In big fights the ‘server’ can lag resulting in abilities not firing despite the fact that your UI and character is responsive. This will happen on high end and low end system alike because it is on ANETs side, much like culling.

People can and do get local lag as well due to bandwidth and old computers as well as stuttering from low fps. However, we can’t apply a blanket answer like telling someone to go get a new computer.

Regardless, all of the above can be reduced or fixed with code optimizations and improvements. Hopefully this fix they are working on improves things across the board.

On a side note, I do have to wonder why the culling issue is far worse in EB than it is in the BLs. This strikes me as odd because ANET states its on their end. Of course I suppose the EB map could be on a different location than the others (be it physical or virtual or both)

For the record, blob tactics only work against noobs.

Weak troll Maladon, very weak.

Humposaurus.5764:

That’s only in wvw thats why I put those in brackets.

I missed that, sorry. Its been one of those days….

Ubi.4136:

While I LOVED DAoC, and seriously miss Molvik, I really don’t want to see bard speed and AoE Mezz in this game. We sort of have the speed, but it’s not 110% of run speed, it’s 33%. The AoE mezz was just whoever hit theirs first and than the 1:10 wait to be killed if you had no CD available…kind of pointless.

That was the exact noob sentiment that forced game designers to cater to carebears.

The truth is that mezz was counterable across the board. It broke on damage, could be cured, had a long immunity timer (1 minute) so you couldn’t be chain mezzed, and each class had the ability to break it with a cool down (cool down dependent on how much you invested into it)

It was balanced and supremely so. It was also meaningful.

Yeah no doubt, over the years game companies have been catering more and more towards the carebears to try and appeal to the masses. Even this game with no trinity and what appears to now be catering to a very small subset of the player base….. grrr

Maybe Elder Scrolls Online this year? Frior from DAOC is leading it and they don’t have EA forcing them release a game far too early like what happened with WAR. Heh. I know nothing of the actual game play though.

Heck, over the years designers have even made the easiest classes in their games (those with invisibility) easy to play. Stealthing in combat, damage not breaking stealth, etc. I miss the old days of MMOs.

Humposaurus.5764:

In pvp (not wvw) the elementals can save your life and deal alot of damage if they go uncontested.

Depends if they are still bugged out and causing rallies to downed players when they die/unsummon. I removed mine of my bar a long time ago, so I have no idea if its still broken.

ketorin.5923:

lots of misinformed or unaware people in here

No, overall tornado is useless. Sure it has limited use in a handful of places, but overall it is not worth slotting full time in the elite slot.

…and fiery great sword is just bad. I can do more damage with more utility and survival than I ever could while using it. Also, as a movement device across the battlefield. Just pull out daggers.

Misinformed? Hardly. I am just being realistic. I would give up every elite skill we have if I could put one of our other slot items there.

Calae.1738:

Large zergs of players should be easily countered by seige equipment.

Trebuchet and catapult fire should flaten players and send them back to Lion’s Arch in a box. Arrow carts should have multiple utilities like immobilize, cripple, chill and pelt players into swiss cheese. Balistae fire should pierce through players in a line or deal explosive AoE knockback. Zerg mass ressurections should be severly limited; 1 player max and should be interruptable by damage.

There is already too big of a reliance on siege equipment in this game. It isn’t fun sitting still on a piece of siege spamming a button or two because it isn’t very dynamic game play.

Most people want to be fluid, mobile, dynamic, and engaged in combat.

Calae.1738:

Culling is never going to go away unless the action is spread out to multiple areas of the map.

I disagree. Culling is only code and it the game engine can be optimized where they will not need to do it (this is what they are working on).

If games could handle hundreds of players on screen at the same time a decade ago, modern game engines can as well if coded properly.

Sabull.5670:

removing aoe limit would break the game entirely. It would make culling far more powerful, encourage random spreaded out pugs instead of coordinated movement, using combo fields and healing.
Wiping keep door sieges single handledly vs tens of players…

Yes uncapping AoE as it stands would be a bad idea. Likewise nerfing AoE in its present form is a bad one as well.

Calae.1738:

covenn.7165:

Calae.1738:

AoE needs to be nerfed hard. Really hard.

All you need is 1 commander and a bunch of lemmings following the commander closely. Everyone in the group is required to use weapon sets that deals AoE damage on the move. What this creates is a lawn mower. You know what a lawn mower is right? You know that device with rotating blades on 4 wheels that you push around that cuts grass? Yea that.

WvW is a pathetic zerg fest. A bunch of skilless lemmings spamming their auto attacks running around like a swarm of bees.

Sadly, you have no idea what you are talking about. AoE in this game is the weakest implementation of any MMO I have played in any game in the last decade +. The exact reason why zergs and zerg balls are successful is because they can rush through enemy AoE with no consequence.

Nerfing AoE more than it already is will make the exact zerg problem you are complaining about far worse.

A zerg doesn’t need to stomp anyone. They can just AoE downed players from a safe distance. You don’t even need range AoE. You could just have melee AoE.

Imagine a ball of players running around spamming melee autoattacks. 1 commander and 30+ players just mindlessly following the commander where ever he goes spamming thier autoattacks. They have basically turned themselves into anti-player seige. I call it the lawn mower.

If you propose higher AoE damage and unlimited target AoE; the strongest tacic in the game will be lawn mowers. The larger the group, the more effective it will be. Just run around and cut the grass. No need to stomp.

I am not trying to be disrespectful here, but your reasoning shows lack of experience playing MMOs in this kind of environment. Simply put, you are completely wrong.

When you have 30 people balled up, a single AOE spell hits 5 of them. Given that most AOE spells on average will do 1/8th to 1/10th of a persons life per hit, basic math alone will show you the problem when it comes to stopping a zerg ball. Simply put, it requires a mass amount of people AOEing on top of the zerg ball at the exact same time to even put a dent in it, and because the damage to the people in the ball is distributed and random, they will typically just roll right over anyone.

Now imaging that AoE wasn’t capped at 5 targets. 30 people try to do the same zerg ball and roll through you, but this time, they are -all- getting hit by each AOE spell. Standing balled up in a zerg ball now has gone from being an overwhelming advantage to being a death sentence. The very nature of this will make zerg balls a thing of the past, because they will be forced to spread out to minimize AoE because it is actually meaningful. They will have to actually pay attention to circles on the ground, use dodges, and counter abilities instead of zerg balling through it while hardly even noticing the AOE.

Calae.1738:

AoE needs to be nerfed hard. Really hard.

All you need is 1 commander and a bunch of lemmings following the commander closely. Everyone in the group is required to use weapon sets that deals AoE damage on the move. What this creates is a lawn mower. You know what a lawn mower is right? You know that device with rotating blades on 4 wheels that you push around that cuts grass? Yea that.

WvW is a pathetic zerg fest. A bunch of skilless lemmings spamming their auto attacks running around like a swarm of bees.

Sadly, you have no idea what you are talking about. AoE in this game is the weakest implementation of any MMO I have played in any game in the last decade +. The exact reason why zergs and zerg balls are successful is because they can rush through enemy AoE with no consequence.

Nerfing AoE more than it already is will make the exact zerg problem you are complaining about far worse.

Kazuno.9218:

Maybe just like bleeding stack have a limit, hit of stacked gaoe should have one to.

That would destroy the game and make stopping zerg impossible in all situations. AoE as it is doesnt do enough damage to enough people, except for siege.

Group retaliation is pretty OP in the right circumstance because you can literally melt anyone hitting you. Admittedly it only works against noobs, but it is still pretty hilarious.

Dunno, I move fast. Swiftness always up, lightning flash, RTL, switch to fire leap, switch to earth if there is a grey near by and magnetic grasp it as killing a grey doesnt drop swiftness… repeat. Any difference from the stupid sword isn’t going to be much anyways, even if it is indeed slightly fast. Not to mention you will run out of charges/duration before making it all the way across.

I get great performance on my 3770k and I havent OC’d it yet…. out of the box. Of course I am toning down a couple of key settings in game.

Also fiery great sword is useless in WvW… if you want speed, just switch to daggers

Have they fixed elementals dying/unsummoning causing rallies yet?

Causic there isn’t enough AoE in this game as it is. There is a 5 target limit and typically the damage of on AoE class alone isnt enough to drop people, let alone 5. Not only that, there are gap closers, immunity, and a million other things that allow people to get through choke points.

This game is already too zerg heavy. Anything that reduces effectiveness of AoE is going to make it far far worse.

Causic.3798:

Theres never only one elementalist in WvW If that was the case I would be fine with it. Multiple elementalist stacking AoE drop people too fast for no risk on their part.

Only stupid people that dont move out of circles. Staff elementalist AE is painfully easy to dodge. Heck, you can even move out of the area most of the time if you pay attention to animations without even wasting a dodge.

By the way, I got hit by 2 rangers the other day and they destroyed me. Nerf them please.

ComeAndSee.1356:

I get hit by Meteor showers for 2k-2.5k all the time and that’s with 3300 armor FYI. Multiple meteor showers in one spot can drop you fast. Almost 5k a second incoming damage.

Multiple anything will kill someone fast. Not sure why you mentioned that, because it doesnt really make any point whatsoever.

Also, you aren’t getting hit every second by meteors. The spell mechanics do not work that way. Whether you get hit or not is quite random. You can even stand inside the area and not get hit once by it. Heh

Causic.3798:

4k Meteor Shower is painfully OP, especially considering it is 1200 range at the center, so it reaches furcher than that

Do you know how meteor shower works? It is a channel first of all. Secondly the damage it does is completely random in regards to who actually gets hit by a meteor. Chances are, you won’t get hit by more than one.

Yes it can hit for 4k, but you will probably take a single shot for 4k on average and be done with it.You should probably look at the spell, look at the damage, use windows calculator, and figure out the dps of that spell. It is laughable.

I dont even use shower unless I am on attunement timers and lava is down because it is my worst damaging AE ability on my ele. You see one half way decent hit, and complain about it. Non consistent, non reliable, and not even average dps on the ability.

Its possible that when all this shakes out, there might be more than 4 T1 capable servers…..