AoE is choking this game in several areas. The biggest and most obvious to me is the lag it likely creates. In WvW, tons of AoE going off creates a massive surge of data the servers have to crunch and send out.
You have no clue what you are talking about. This game has far less AoE and effective AoE than many that have come before, and they didnt lag out into oblivion.
You really have some anger issues you need to work out xsorus
get over it, its a game.
i think you have a misunderstanding of what Anger is.
Wishing that band wagoners get crushed on their new server isn’t anger mate
That’s not even a blip on the radar of Anger.
Anger is posting so much hate on the forums in an irrational manner such as you have been doing. I am sorry for your tears, really, but you need to get a little perspective about this. It is a game.
I think most people are annoyed about the players that went from SBI to SoR in the same matchup.
That was in very bad taste for those players to do that.
Frankly I’m hoping SoR gets crushed very bad in T1 to the point those players that left SBI for SoR are forced to spend big money to get off SoR.
That’s some heavy malice, it’s just a game. If you have that much hate for someone or something, you should take a step back and re-think things.
Oh you’re right, I should wish all the people who abandoned SBI for SoR during the very match up they’re fighting SoR well wishes on their future endeavors…lol
No, but you are bagging an entire server, many of who have been on SOR for a long time and many of who that have been nothing but respectful of your situation.
I think most people are annoyed about the players that went from SBI to SoR in the same matchup.
That was in very bad taste for those players to do that.
Frankly I’m hoping SoR gets crushed very bad in T1 to the point those players that left SBI for SoR are forced to spend big money to get off SoR.
That’s not very nice. You are throwing a lot of hate towards an entire server of people because you are upset relatively small amount transferred from SBI. Even worse when everyone from SOR is sympathizing with your server and what it is going through because we have been there ourselves. Not only that, we aren’t pointing at the score board and bragging the way BG did for 2 months because we understand.
Try being respectful, because we are trying to be respectful towards you.
There is no mass aoe in this game. 5 target limit on abilities prevents it from being ‘mass’.
Also, people are still getting portal bombed? Most of the time when people portal bomb us, they all end up dead where they portalled in.
The only issues with D/d eles is their ability to escape even when downed, and the fact that boons trigger on attunement swop, coupled with massive healing (go read the d/d guide for how it’s done).
D/D ele can go from 1hp to full in the time it takes for him to run away and turn around- it’s almost as annoying as thiefs being able to reset a fight and re appear a few seconds later at full HP while your heal is still 10-15 seconds away from being off cooldown.
There is nothing wrong with ele’s aoe- if anything staff ele skills need a small buff and the 5 target cap needs REMOVING on all aoe skills.
There only other aoe ability that needs a nerf is the thief spin, they need to be able to be hit by arrows during it- but then thiefs aren’t going to get any real nerfs….
Unless there is a keep door within range, the ele down state does not let them get away. They literally move all over 20 feet away from you and then you stomp them. Half the eles I down don’t bother.
The attunement swap boon is a trait, big deal. They are short lived. The one you should be complaining about are the aura boons combined with boon duration. Even so, I true bunker ele is going to hit you like a wet noodle with far more effort and timing than it takes other classes that can out damage them by spamming one button.
Also what is your definiton of ‘massive’ healing. A typical D/D ele is going to heal for about 2200 with cleansing wave, or 1/10th of his health pool. They do keep regen up that typically ticks for 1/75th to 1/100th of their health pool…. given they are in the lowest health pool in the game, umm yeah. Hardly massive healing. Of course there is the heal slot ability, but everyone has something similar so no point complaining about it.
Lets face it, the big thing you are complaining about here is not being able to collect bags from d/d elementalists because they run away from you. People are used to elementalists with staffs being free bags, and when they run into one that doesnt get three shot and can run away, they complain. There is nothing OP about a bunker ele because they sacrifice damage for survivability. The reason there are so many bunker ele’s now is because it is the only ele build with some survivability. Every other build gets 3 shot by people and is no fun to play.
None of you like steamrolling? I have seen SoR spawn camping on numerous occasions. Or sending 50+ to wipe out 10 SBI players.
So spare me the “We feel so bad!” when you have 20 players standing outside spawns.
Go out a different exit maybe instead of complaining. Typically people spawn camp because they are bored. As far as 10 getting rolled by 50… happens all the time in this game to every server.
I was keeping it real with you and being nice and considerate. I am not sure why you are so bitter.
the only “flaws” I can see is that AoE are not powerful enough to be a REAL threat and at the same time there isn’t an effective counter-mechanics.
Well there are counter mechanics for most AEs.
See a red circle on the ground, move out of it or dodge roll out of it. Many AEs animate before doing damage, some with quite a long delay. See AE animation, move or dodge roll depending on which one it is. Even the 4 second channel that d/d ele’s get that everyone complains about but shouldnt: interrupt the channel, simply move out of the way during those 4 seconds after the animation, or count to 3 and dodge (this stops d/d’s from lightning flashing to you).
Simple, easy to use counters for every class.
Then there is the game mechanic counter itself. 5 target limit.
And by healing issues, I meant healing for the elementalist. D/D wouldn’t be nearly as competetive if you actually had to land icy breath to heal yourself or if the water fields didn’t actually heal you for 2k-4k.
I really do think the issues we see right now are related to
1.) The healing options for d/d being too powerful (note that once D/D is scaled back some, the whole class will be as useless as engineers and rangers).
2.) Healing options in general being too powerful (this will scale back bunker builds thus making Eles, Necros, Rangers all useless).
Again you are wrong. There isn’t enough healing in this game.
In fact, the D/D ele you complain about doesn’t even have water fields to blast in. That is pretty much staff, and staff is horrible outside of choke points and sieges.
Even a bunker D/D that sacrifices damage for some healing power, from regen is only going to get 1/100th of his health pool back a tick. His cleansing wave is going to land for a shade over 2k and it has a fairly long cool down (then the EA roll as well). That 2k heal is 1/10th of a bunker specs health pool. Hardly OP, hardly too much, and hardly needs adjusting downwards considering they sacrifice damage to even do that paltry amount of healing.
Simply put, you are wrong. I agree that you should have to hit someone with cone of cold for the heal to work, but that is about it tbh. The fact of the matter is, the best heal in this game and generally the best option for most classes is to run away out of combat to get health back. Personally, I find something really wrong with that.
There is known server lag in huge WvW fights that have nothing to do with your fps or frames as it is all server side. Basically abilities don’t fire or are delayed when pressed. I dont know if this happens in PvE because I avoid that, heh.
Oh I agree on keeping game on native sampling.
Slightly different card but same processor and ram here. I have turned down some of my settings because I find it to flashy in big fights. Your biggest hits on FPS with your setup is going to be shadows and reflections. Ask yourself if you even need them. Personally they make it harder to see in WvW chaos anyways. Oh and I am not OC’d
I find as I monitor fps in this game that it jumps all over the place pretty severely.
Rata Sum – 104
Heart of The Mists – 200+
WvW – 120
Then in the middle of a big fight it can drop as low as the high 30’s but generally is in the 60’s on an average encounter.
I am very disappointed at all of the players who jumped servers to SoR. When the going gets tough, the tough jump over to the server in the lead I guess.
Most of all, I blame ArenaNet for ZERO INACTION on a big problem for the past 4 months. Who gives a flying crap about guesting at this point? The best option would have been to just give all accounts 1 free server transfer and be done with it. Instead, WvW has turned into a digital version of duck-duck-goose with the world transfer feature.
Why are you disappointed? They are making it more difficult for people to transfer servers so there will be less bandwagoning. Of course people are going to use their last free chance to jump to a place they might find more fun.
Please don’t think they came here to dominate T2. They came here to make SoR competitive in T1. I can speak for all of us when I say the sooner we get out of T2 the better. I dont think any of us like steamrolling people in PPT.
In summation, current AoE abilities need to be left alone in WvWvW. If you cant move yourself out of a circle or dodge when you see an animation cause most hit after the animation, then you deserve to get hit by it. If anything, the AoE cap needs to be slightly raised to give the less populated servers / teams a chance against superior numbers. (note I play on one of those populated servers steamrolling everyone with numbers)
Since we DO have instances where single target abilities do less than AoE. Those abilities need to be reevaluated to make them useful and/or do more damage. Nerfing AoE would destroy this game to be honest.
The truth of the matter is that in this game there isn’t enough meaningful CC and not near enough AoE to combat zergs. This is why zerging and superior numbers for the most part beats ability. Sure lesser numbers can and do win, but it is generally due to the zerg being incompetent. Even in those silly 4 vs 30 videos the glass cannon ele’s doing work there would have been destroyed if one competent player out of the 30 used a gap close and wrecked them.
Currently we have absolutely horrible classes like Necromancers and Rangers who are only barely staying relevant in PvP due to their bunker builds.
I’m also not convinced AE is the problem here. I think it’s the way healing works with all the bunker builds going around right now. Why not scale back some of the healing options, change water fields to provide aegis and regen instead of large direct heals and regen.
Necro’s are awesome played and specced right. Also, you forgot to add in the fact the the reason there ARE bunker eles is because they pretty much are forced to go bunker to survive being killed by anyone that sneezes at them.
Also, there isn’t ENOUGH healing in this game. You really cant complain about regen because it is a trickle of health compared to the massive damage people take. Whoopty do, you are regenning for 200 a second out of a health pool of 20k, but are taking hits for 4-6k a second. Oh and those other heals on long cool downs some classes get, is even a 2k self heal that doesnt even negate a single attack worth complaining about?
Lets not ignore the elephant in the room any longer:
AoE isn’t the problem.
Elementalists are the problem.
Soloing parties full of people with their D/D bunker build.
A bunker ele does almost no damage. What he does well is survive. If a d/d ele is actually doing more than giving you love taps, then he is a glass cannon and can be 2/3 shot.
On the other hand if true bunker ele is killing you so quickly that you complain on the forums about it, then you need to reevaluate your gear and stop running around in all berzerker for lolnumbers instead of p/v/t.
Instead of nerfing AoE damage maybe make the damage not stacking. Now I get hit by 10 AoEs at the same time. Thats the only valid nerf I imagine.
That would make it even easier for people to zerg you. You would never be able to hold choke points, doors, or so enough damage to simply stop a mass of people from pushing into your face and destroying you.
Please think about what you suggest before posting it.
Why is SoR suddenly posting so much negativity, don’t be sore winners guys. Chin up!
There really isn’t negativity. Most of us at SoR are apologetic to TC/SBI for the matchup quickly getting lopsided. I feel I can speak for most of the server when I say we would all prefer hard fought matches and equal coverage across the board.
Looking forward to our new presence bringing it in T1 in a week or two.
We could still use some Euros and SEAs. T1 will have nonstop fighting 24-7
blackgate has had outmaned buff in all borderlands except for EB most of the day……yay
That sucks. I know how that feel from when you were fighting us in T2
You sound mad bro. So mad that you had to come to the forums and make a post about it. Not cool to get that mad bro.
This may have been the word you were looking for btw: etiquette
I don’t know how SOR is in non NA time, but unless they can field a minimum of 2.5 maps worth of people at all times(i mean 24/7), they are going to find every single one of their keeps and towers reset daily in T1. This has nothing to do with skill, but thats how it will be.
We really dont know how we are right now either. We just had a serious influx of players from non NA hours. I do know that up until that point, we were used to losing every single thing while while NA slept/worked to BG for weeks on end. Nothing new to us really, the difference though is that it appears we will be able to at least make a fight of it this go around. Before it was just our doors trying to keep people out….
What I do see is SoS and JQ duking it out for 1 and 2, and BG and SoR swapping places as their red headed step child every few weeks or so.
For now I still see this as well. Though, that might change with what has been happening the past few days on SoR
14k glass cannon ele was allowed to do that. Anyone with a gap closer could have dropped him in seconds, then disrupted the others. Then there wouldn’t have been a video, just a couple of corpses on the ground.
A couple of European guilds would be good too to.
Towards the end of their matches BG was consistently pulling higher PPT in NA than SOR and today there is no telling who has the stronger NA team)
Consistently is a large stretch there. Every night when I logged out, we were well ahead in PPT during prime time NA hours. The only except seemed to be reset night where everything is a mad scramble and that kept bouncing back and forth.
Anyways, why are you trolling? You are just going to get the thread locked.
T1 after settle will be SOS-JQ-SOR
SoR has better prime time than BG and just got the coverage to most likely match them at Oceanic hours, which was the only reason BG got out of T2 at the time anyways. I suspect BG/SOR will be trading places in T1 alot.
SOR has better primetime? What primetime? From your post you seem to think NA primetime is THE primetime, and everything else is just extra “coverage”.
You are in for a rude awakening if and when you make that T1 jump.
Considering SoR is a NA server, the obvious answer is NA prime time. Who said anyone else was ‘extra coverage’, those are you words not mine.
Oh and I played in T1 on JQ a few months ago before transferring off to seek a better challenge. It is my original server.
Sure this will get locked at some point, but the reality is that the only full time slot right now is North American. Getting consistent queues on every map every night during those hours and adding more will only make it worse.
Horrible suggestions man. That would completely kill this game. Please think a little about impact.
Also, I want to point out that this game is already hugely siege dependent. If they nerf AoE abilities by players, there are going to be a heck of alot of bored players sitting around spamming arrow cart and ballista keys, not moving.
T1 after settle will be SOS-JQ-SOR
SoR has better prime time than BG and just got the coverage to most likely match them at Oceanic hours, which was the only reason BG got out of T2 at the time anyways. I suspect BG/SOR will be trading places in T1 alot.
Here’s a pipe dream:
SoR, you guys are going to win this week. No one has any doubts about that. Would you guys be cool with your guilds running skeleton crews on Thursdays so that you can come party with us instead?
I am cool with it, but I think out oceanics that recently joined will want to get to T1 quickly so they actually have people to fight during the weekdays besides doors. So with that said, if it will ruin our chance of getting there quicker, I would have to decline.
Shout out to PINK and AL for being out there doing their thing regardless of the situation.
Nothing but respect and admiration for your persistence.
Appreciate what you said, this week is indeed very frustrating for TC.
Dont get frustrated man. Keep bringing the fight when you play and dont worry about coverage issues you can do nothing about. It is far more fun that way Just keep smashing us in the face whenever you are online.
It’s great how the servers respect each other enough that there is really minimal inter-server ribbing even in the face of a lopsided matchup. So much so that most of the arguments are now between server-mates!
Unlike the server in the previous matchup that went to T1 recently, we all realize that the game is won with coverage. There is nothing brag worthy about ticking away at 500 while our opponents are sleeping and offline.
With that said, I hope we move up soon so this doesnt keep happening to you. After dealing with it ourselves for a couple of months, I understand completely that it sucks.
All you can really do is your best during your play hours and keep bringing the fight, and not worry about the points that happen while you are sleeping.
If anet handles this poorly, which is fairly likely, this change could very well be the end of competitive play in wvw. All hail the zerg.
You call 10 ele’s spamming 1 key competitive? AOE’s with masive damage feed the zerg just like bads like you. ANET is trying to fix something that’s ridiculas and causes much lagg, okay
What one key is that ele ‘spamming’ ? Anything without a cool down is lucky to crit for 2k. Good game, he might kill me in 10 casts if I sit there and do nothing or he catches me afk. lmao
D/D Ele, Ride the Lightning + Earthquake. Four defeated players. GG.
Sorry not reality. That is like 4k worth of damage if they crit.
Do you think any ability on the staff ele bar needs a damage reduction? I don’t really see it.
But I see other classes when they have aoe options vs single target options where they are preferring to spam the aoe over and over with no consideration to tactical play. AOE skills with channels might not be changed at all, as it locks you into casting it, but the fire and forget or fire and spam aoes might be changed. (I do see staff 5 being changed to you have to continue the channel for it to continue to drop, right now it seems unintended you can cancel the channel early and still get the damage)
In all fairness to meteor… the damage is unreliable. Who you hit and when you hit with it is completely random, and considering that, the damage is rather underwhelming. Even if it had no cool down, I would never consider sitting there spamming it because you would do far more, and far more reliable damage other ways. I only use it when I cant switch attunements (waiting for cycle timers) and lava is on cool down.
Wrong,
Staff and S/D are both viable on the Ele.
Staff is viable in siege or in the middle of a zerg. Thats it… pretty sure I said that before but you have missed my posts out of the dozens here. Outside of that situation, they are the weakest weapon/class combination in the game in regards to survival and overall ability.
Any elementalist running S/D is fooling himself because he is not even remotely close to being as effective as other builds.
Worst zerg ive ever seen
The only classes which should be winning against you even when you outnumber them are DD eles, mesmers and thieves.
Staff eles are actually a rather weak roaming/small group spec.
The quality of the zerg in this video is mindblowing.
Right on all accounts. I will actually take it one step further by saying that glass cannon staff elementalists are absolutely the worst class/weapon/build combination in the game in regards to that (roaming/small man). I drop people like the guy posting this video in seconds.
(edited by covenn.7165)
As for the AoE damage, it does need to be toned down a bit. Single target damage should always be higher than AoE, but if Elementalists want to give up having arguably the best support/utility for a group then they can keep the damage. It should be one or the other, and right now Ele’s have a bit too much of both.
You really aren’t even remotely close to being accurate with your statement on any front.
Look at the video again, every single AE ability that ele used as a glass cannon hit for far less than abilities from other classes running glass cannon. Secondly, that staff ele has absolutely no survival skills outside of mist form and could have gotten dropped in three seconds by anyone smart enough to push and get on him. Lastly, you cannot both do insane damage and be group support / high survival at the same time as an elementalist. If you go bunker/support you trade off by doing garbage damage and if you go high damage, you trade off by having people 3 shot you.
The PvP balance dev said it was a problem even before this last livecast. Something to the extent of it being a problem that you could kill the downed guy and the players trying to revive them at the same time.
Last patch gave you more health to the downed state as well. Pretty lame to me. They want to make it impossible for you to die I guess.
The current downed state is stupid. The reason people AE rez clumps is because it is sometimes the only way to finish players in big fights. As it stands now, even AEing rez clumps, you can still zerg rez someone far faster than you can finish them.
Its stupid.
Zzzz i’m done arguing with you since it is absolutely pointless. I have sleep to catch up on!
Not sure why you started arguing with me in the first place. I was just informing people of the queue situation.
Actually, I think I see where the argument comes from. As I read through your posts, I am struck by the fact you mention SoR being the ones killing you. So are you posting things about our server as if you are a member just to cause people to not wish to join us? Are you bothered by the fact that SoR is expanding its population after many weeks of being the under dog? I am sorry that you feel you must bad mouth another server. I admit we have a que. But never has there been a que on ALL maps at the same time.
Pardon me, but I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you missed something really big in what you read. In fact, you really need to go back and read it all again because your entire post is based of something that is wrong.
First thing you missed: I play on SoR and have for months.
Secondly, I know we have had queues on every map at the same time most night recently, even in the middle of the week during NA prime time. Why do I know this? Because I have been in them and bouncing around maps. Sure, sometimes they are a minute or two, but others they are an hour.
Thirdly, I am not bothered the we are expanding our population at all. We need oceanics/euros to compete in T1 (if you look in the recruitment thread you will see my support posts there as proof). However, we are at or above capacity NA prime time.
Lastly, I was simply warning people about that fact, not telling them to go away. There is no denying the fact that if there are already queues during a certain coverage period, that adding a huge influx of players at the same time is going to make them vastly worst. Common sense.
Oh, and please tell me where I bad mouthed anyone or any server? That comment of yours was baseless.
(edited by covenn.7165)
Enjoy fighting alone for awhile, many of us will be taking a break from this fiasco.
Hmm weeks of fighting hard to gain ground only to lose it to BG uncontested overnight and I never gave in. After three days you are throwing in the towel.
Different mentality I guess.
Mobility and escape options on Daggerx2 Eles need to be looked at and probably require a severe nerf ( same goes for Thief of course ). That’s an entirely different issue from what we’re discussing here though.
Mobility is not a reason for a nerf. The reason why many ele’s go d/d and run bunker is due to the fact that it is the only viable build. If you don’t run that as an ele, you are free points to anyone attacking you. Even so, while those ele’s may be annoying to kill, they do garbage damage compared to everyone else. If they switch to a more damage oriented build you can typically just 3 shot them.
Exactly what i suggested they take from DAOC several months ago. Glad to see they are doing it. If it worked a decade ago on the available hardware and bandwith then, it should work just fine now.
However, we have way more than adequate NA coverage at the moment, and it is only fair that people know this before moving here.
I’ve never been to T1 so I do not know how strong SoS’ NA is now compared to how it was before, and I have never gone up against JQ.
I prefer to be safe than sorry.
It’s on Par with SoR during it’s NA prime time for a body count. The part SoR would have to get used to is seeing the murder ball of 40ish+ on the west side, and another similar group on the east side from SoS.
Coverage is great, get more it won’t hurt. The biggest prep step for SoR is to get those free floating pugs to follow directions under pressure, and come back even after 8+ wipes. If the SoR general pop is ready for such meat grinder fights then it’s got a good shot at T1.
More coverage is good, but more NA players at this time is not if people expect to be able to play with each other.
Oh and murder balls? I am not worried about those, they are extremely easy to break. Well until ANET does something stupid like nerf AE damage.
Plus ele is the most ridiculous thing in the world currently, if played correctly you are immortal.
No. Eles that immortal are d/d bunker eles that do absolutely no damage.
Any ele that is hitting you hard is extremely easy to kill. Even more so if they have a staff out. In fact, a staff ele is probably the easy class/weapon combo in the game to kill.
I still like the idea of a “damage pool” where the AOE does the same damage a single target attack would so in the same time frame, but spread over targets affected. Remove the AOE cap, if it hit’s 25 people in the coverage zone then they’d all take 4% of the total output over the DOT duration. One person would take 100%.
No, that would never work. It would make it even more pointless to use AE abilities. Just think about it for a second.