Guild Wars 2

PvP is intrinsically fun in a way that PvE cannot match. Any player versus player content is more or less infinite, because players are far more challenging, unpredictable and interesting to play against than AI.

It’s like popcorn. Popcorn is intrinsically interesting and moreish because every popped corn has a unique shape

I agree with the guy above, you get this thread in every MMO. It’s an ongoing problem for every game, and to suggest that Anet aren’t aware of it and doing everything they can to counteract it is ludicrous.

It takes time. Plus also, Anet have a better overview of what’s going on. Sometimes they will deliberately let certain instances of botting go on till they build up a bigger picture and can snag organized attempts all at once. Also, they have to be wary of “false positives”.

But … but … the Mesmer is (at recent official count in one of John Smith’s posts a couple of weeks ago IIRC) one of the two least-played classes in GW2, along with Engineer.

How about that for a “general consensus”?

I don’t grok the question: if I like the game, then I’ll feel like supporting the devs via the cash shop (and I have done, to the tune of an extra slot because I wanted to try out an Ele).

But I don’t feel “pressured” to use the cash shop – i.e. I don’t feel like I have to use the cash shop to be viable in the game at all.

Sheen.8196:

Aren’t good games supposed to stand on their own merits? Aren’t they supposed to be designed in a way that keeps people engaged?

Yeah but if you have a fixed idea of what an MMO “should” be, then maybe that fixed idea is standing in the way of your potential engagement with this MMO?

1) Some people are faster than others and reach cap quicker.

2) This happened in WoW – after 2 weeks some people were at cap and complaining about there being nothing to do.

3) There is no possible game that’s just been released that will ever satisfy such people.

4) 8 years on and nobody can complain about WoW in the same way.

5) 8 years from now nobody will complain about GW2 lacking content in the same way.

Perspective.

Plus also: relax, there’s no sub, in this game you don’t have to look for justification to pay a sub and be entertained 24/7 because of it.

Different mindset. Play it when it’s fun, stop playing when it isn’t fun, play it when you have a hankering for it again.

Personally, no MMO has ever been able to keep me entertained beyond a month or two, and I’ve always found it hard to justify paying for monthly subs thereafter when I usually only get a few weeks of fun out of it before I’m bored again. The way GW2 is set up is perfect for me – I can play it whenever I want, for as long or as little as I want to.

Yeah totally disagree, but it’s a well-written post and I can understand where you’re coming from, even while I disagree.

But I have to say that I too find questing in GW2 about a million times more immersive this way than the usual quest dispenser method. It’s quest dispensers, quest hubs and quest “paths” that make the process completely mechanistic for me. For some reason, the orange pop-ups and map pop-ups denoting hearts and DEs don’t feel so mechanistic to me. Probably just some psychological difference.

But I certainly wouldn’t object to the option to have the on-screen and orange map pop-up infos turn-offable, for those who want that complete “fog of war”.

(Btw, if you’re heavily into discovering stuff for yourself, you do realize that the map icons can be turned off too? That way you have to actively hunt for POIs, hearts, talk to NPCs, etc., etc., etc.)

smug.3895:

(Ugh, it took two weeks but I’m finally able to log in to the forums.)

Hi, all. I wanted to know if people move using the mouse (hold both buttons down to move) or the keyboard.

Here’s my beef:
Guild Wars 2 wants you to participate in battles actively, almost like an action rpg where you have your hand on the keypad at all times for responsive dodging, maneuvering, and etc. Yet,

1. some default skill keys are far from the keyboard controls, forcing you to take your hand off the keyboard controls (makes sense since some classes have a total of 15 skill buttons)

2. the keyboard controls turn too slowly, and there is no way to change the turn speed (I’d like it personally to turn about four times faster, so that a slight tap is about 40 degrees)

3. if you use the mouse to turn, then you can’t strafe around targets, move in and out, and use all the skills at the same time, resulting in a brief moment of standing still while you fire off a skill

4. if you map out keys and use two hands on the keyboard, aside from the fact that it turns too slowly, you cannot use aoe ground skills quickly

5. there are no keyboard camera controls

I can’t seem to find a good middle ground. Anyone have suggestions on how you are set up?

To be honest, I’d be happy if there was a way to adjust the keyboard turn speed. That would alleviate most of the problems for me.

1) Learn to steer your direction with the mouse (holding down r mouse button). You might find there’s something awkward about the default Y axis, if so reverse it. (I was weaned on Descent, so I’m used to the sense of “forward” meaning “down”, which gives a sense of 3-d-ness forward and backward. The default is “forward” meaning “up”, i.e. as if you’re painting straight onto the screen. Try both methods, see which suits.)

2) forget about the turn keys, and remap “strafe left” to A and “strafe right” to D (forward W and backwards S as usual). You are turning with your mouse and strafing (moving directly sidewise) with A and D. IOW, you are moving exactly as you would in an FPS except you’re holding the right mouse button down.

3) Find a tree somewhere safe

4) Use the tree to learn circle strafing and dodging with this method (remap dodge to middle mouse button, disable double-tapping to dodge). Circle strafing means facing an object while you turn around it, and it means combining the mouse steering with little nudges on the strafe keys (the “opposite” strafe key from the direction you’re turning in). It will take a couple of days, practice for an hour, leave it for a few hours, practice for an hour, leave it for a few hours, and the next day do the same. By then it should become second nature. It’s important to take breaks, and it’s important to do it the second day too. (This is general good advice for learning some new dexterity trick or memorizing anything.)

5) Find some neutral mobs and practice circle strafing and dodging around them, as they move around grazing or whatever.

6) Remap the 1-3/1-4 keys to something like: 2-4/2-5, then remap the other keys (utilities) to keys like Q, E, R, G, Z, X, C, V, B – find something that’s appropriate. It takes a bit of time to experiment. Generally you want frequently-used abilities on Mouse button 4, top row numbers 2-4 and Q, E and R, then less used abilities on the lower extra keys. If you have a mouse with lots of buttons, use them. I find 1 and 6-0 are usually too awkward to use in heated combat. But YMMV, find something that’s right for you (some people can be accurate with their ring finger for 1 and 2).

7) Practice with neutral easy mobs again, circle strafing but this time adding your attacks. Start with a simple rotation, build up to your usual rotation.

8) Profit!

I used to be a keyboard turner and icon clicker. The difference between that and going “pro” with mouse steering, keypressing and circle strafing is night and day. For a couple of days time out and investment in learning the new method, you will now have a new level of ease of play and game mastery that you wouldn’t have believed possible in the keyboard turning days, and it’s a transferable skill to other games and MMOs. Promise!

drkn.3429:

You can’t really go full glass cannon because of the lowest hp pool and the lowest armor.

Umm, that’s what being a glass cannon means. You min-max for damage, damage, damage, and hope that you can kill stuff before it kills your squishykitten

Gelrod.1295:

Maybe some players like to play twice as hard as other professions to achieve something? I couldn’t main Warrior, because I would get bored pretty fast. So I play Elementalist.
And I won’t agree, that Elementalist should be better than Warrior, just because he’s harder to play. Some people, like me, like this playstyle. And if you feel like you’ve gotta invest too much efford to achieve stuff… roll an easier class and be happy, that Ele isn’t way stronger than you, just because he’s harder to play.

Exactly. Every MMO has classes that require more buttons to press to do the same job as the EZ mode classes in the game can do with one button. That’s WAI.

Sometimes you just want to relax and /faceroll. Sometimes you want to do something that requires more thought and more situational awareness, or that’s a bit more complicated and risky to pull off.

So at one end of the spectum you have Warriors and Rangers, at the other end Mesmers, Elementalists and some Engineer types.

(But even having said that, there’s quite a bit of depth in GW2 even in the faceroll Professions, if you want it. It’s just that some classes are more noob-friendly than others.)

Different strokes for different folks – and different strokes for the same folks at different times (hey, I have a Warrior too, for when I just like to kick back and mash! ).

Derpinator.2894:

gurugeorge.

I disagree that we’re affecting the world at all, much less “live and in real time.” And I take some offense at your insinuations. a) you seem to feel that we aren’t picking up quests at a hub then “ticking them off”, and I would agree, but given any given amount of game play time, we’re still finding quests and ticking them off in my opinion. The difference is semantics, and doesn’t change the root of my concept. To wit, we don’t change the world. We don’t matter. Neither as a group nor as individuals.

Please share your thoughts about how we are having an effect, with specifics, and those that have any impact greater than 10 minutes are most appreciated.

I also disagree with your assertion that technology isn’t at a place to allow for a more personalized experience in games, although since you make a blanket claim with no specifics, it’s difficult to pinpoint something to use as a disclaimer. But let me point at some relatively recent technology that belies your point: instancing.

If an instance can be created for a single player, or a group of players (as it definitely is in this game) then individual contributions/changes can be accounted for, even if only in small ways.

To say it’s not possible to create an environment that is (or at least appears to be) changed by an individual for lack of technology is simply untrue. Whether it’s feasible or not, I can’t say. But I suspect it’s actually more a matter of desire to do so and (more importantly) a knowledge that it will help the game experience that is at issue.

I’m not a programmer, but I’ve read quite deeply about this stuff and trust me, it’s not possible beyond the level GW2’s doing it at the moment. So far as themepark games are concerned, Anet have really pushed the envelope as far as it can go with DEs, and in a very elegant way (without using too much “phasing” – see below).

The only way you can get “players affecting world” is a) a text-based game that doesn’t have any visual assets to design and render, or b) by a purely player-driven sandbox type of game like EVE Online, and even then all that’s actually changing is something abstract (i.e. “sovereignty”) – and, again, EVE doesn’t need a whole lot of assets to be created and rendered to represent the abstract change in the virtual world. A game like SWG also enables player-interaction to feel like it’s players affecting the world, because they’re affecting each other by being part of the world’s furniture for each other.

There’s one more way of doing it in a themepark game, by using something called “phasing”. LOTRO uses this a bit, as well as DDO. GW1 used to use it a lot, and the intro to GW2 uses it (the big boss fight at the start is in a different version of the starter area than the one you actually start the game in). But the downside of it is that the “phases” (e.g. a part of the world that’s a happy village, but after an even in which you participate, is a burnt-out wreck of a village) split up the persistent world feel. It can get very complex and messy and somewhat lose the sense of the game being in a single, persistent world.

So yeah, short of phasing, something like DEs is the only way it’s going to happen in a themepark game. And DEs work – at least for me. There have been numerous occasions when there’s been only me and another guy at a DE and we’ve held off mobs from taking over a spot. That gives the requisite illusion of change. There have also been occasios where I’ve started off a conversation with someone that’s led to a chain of DEs in which large numbers of players participate. That also give the requisite feeling that I made a difference. If you wander around in GW2 pretending to be an adventurer, things like this will happen, and you will get about as much of the feeling of “making a difference” as it’s possible to get in a themepark game, without overuse of phasing, at the present stage of technology.

Anet said (paraphrasing) “no grind to be effective”. And they are correct. Maxed stats are relatively easily attainable (i.e. with only minimal grind).

That’s the difference between GW2 and other MMOs – especially those notorious for grinding (Korean, etc.)

There is a grind there for those who want it and enjoy it – and that’s purely for looks. Hence it’s optional.

If you’re 80 now, and you want to keep playing PvE past 80, then yes, there needs to be more content in the game. But it’s been out a month. Usually content comes over time. WoW is 8 years old, and has 8 years’ worth of content development. While it’s true that methods of content delivery have sped up over 8 years, it still takes time to make assets. No game that’s ever going to be released is going to have, at release, the same amount of content as a game that’s been out 8 years. So the option for a player who’s 80 now and finds there’s not enough content is to WAIT. Put GW2 to the side and come back when there’s more content to do.

This is easy, since it’s a non-subscription game. You don’t have to keep playing it 24/7 to justify your subscription. You already got a ton of content for the box price – more than a single player game.

The above isn’t “fanboism”, it’s “realism”.

LFG tools are good. The game has one but it’s stupidly primitive.

But automated LFG tools are the very devil.

Jesus wept, already in this game you’re affecting the world live and in realtime as opposed to picking up a shopping list of quests at a hub instead of mechanically ticking them off – doesn’t that make you feel at least a little bit more like you make a difference? If that’s not good enough then I’m afraid no MMO is going to be good enough, because at this stage of technology it’s simply not possible to provide the amount of variation that would be necessary to be prepared beforehand to be in the path of every possible player of every possible type.

the uprising.6317:

How the mesmer was made in GW2 is almost a textbook example of what NOT to do in designing, and the mistakes made on this class are typically seen in newbie companies, but I didn’t expect it from an industry veteran like Anet which seemed to have at least SOME willingness to learn from their design missteps in GW1.

And your expertise designing classes in the games industry is … ?

Oh right, you’re just another internet blowhard, sorry, carry on.

Lvl 52 Mesmer,
8/10

You have to be a bit pro-active to really get a social gaming experience in MMOs. Look out for groups to join in Map chat (private tell the people advertising – as a general point it’s worth being polite, succinct and informative in private tells).

When you advertise in /map, again be succinct and informative. Not just “anybody want to team?” but “lvl xx [your Prof] LFG [whatever]” or if you’re forming a team “LF2M for xx dungeon” (looking for 2 more, xx dungeon).

As you’re wandering out in the world, you’re bound to come across situations where 2 or 3 of you pursue a DE or a chain. Strike up conversations in /say with them, and /friend them, then later, say when you’re doing a DE and you’re the only one there, politely private tell them (“excuse me, I don’t know if you remember me but we teamed up yesterday, would you be up for xxx?”) to check if they’re available to help. Generally speaking people like to chat in /say while doing hearts and DEs, but usually most people are a bit too shy to start chatting. You have to be the one to initiate. But don’t overdo it and annoy people. Just light banter, and you’ll find people respond, and then you can get a feel for people you’d be likely to get on with and /friend.

It takes a bit of effort and practice, but after a while it becomes second nature and you’ll find people will respond, and you’ll be able to form teams.

Again, the keys are: be polite and informative but succinct.

Smoothing in games is generally horrible, and a sign of console-y intentions. I’d be happy for it to be turn-off-able completely and the mouse be exactly where you place it at all times (hence also steering precisely). That said, I’ve been living with it in GW2 and it’s not as bad as it’s been in some games. But it still needs to be optional.

I think I’ve seen WoW mentioned in-game in map chat once in the whole month so far on my server (Piken Square). Most of the WoW mentions on the forum come from people who insist on comparing what they perceive as the shortcomings of GW2 with what they perceive as the advantages of WoW.

And then in response to that you see us fanbois commenting about how WoW isn’t all that.

It used to be, for sure, but not any more. GW2 is more like WoW was when it started actually – not in detail of mechanics, certainly, but more in the spirit of its trying new things in the genre.

You have to put a lot of effort in with the Mesmer too. I don’t think there’s any ezmode magic user in the game.

Some people seem to define “best” as “most ownage with least effort”

Class I enjoy playing most atm is Mesmer, but that might change as I get higher level in other classes.

I’ve always thought of GW as PvP-centric. AFAIK, with GW Anet initially intended a PvP game, but put some PvE in it because they felt it had to be there. To their surprise people liked the PvE and lots of people played it, more than the PvP. So clearly with GW2 the focus has been strong on PvE. But my feeling is that it’s still basically a PvP-centric design (certainly it seems like the gameplay is fundamentally based around the PvP – hence short CC, everything on timers of mere seconds).

Put it this way, granted that the PvP content isn’t fundamentally broken, and just needs tweaking, it will be tweaked, then PvP-ers are going to get more fun out of the PvP endgame, relatively speaking, than PvE-ers are going to get out of their endgame. That already seems to be the case.

I think also that Anet have made some effort to entice PvE-ers to dip their toes into PvP with the sPvP, which is really easy to get into and have fun with even if you’re crap at PvP.

I tell you what it might be, it might be that some of us are sick to the back teeth of hearing the same old breathless hyperbolic kitten on MMO forums from self-assumed tin-pot “experts” with their ludicrously inappropriate predictions of d00m based on two weeks of play.

Enough already. Nobody cares what you think, least of all in an MMO where nobody pays a bloody subscription every month.

Go infect some other MMO forum with your rote bullkitten.

The classic modern psychological theory of happiness is: set a goal that’s only just within your limits, possibly even slightly beyond (once you get good); make sure that success is measurable (so there’s no doubt whether you succeeded or not); act to achieve the goal (break down the steps into sub-goals if you need to).

That’s it, that’s basically the formula of human happiness. It’s incredibly simple and effective.

Videogames are this in miniature. It’s the little chains of success that releases the feel good chemicals.

The way this would connect to the OP is if you finish something expecting a financial reward as part of the payoff, or something like that, and don’t get it, then that’s thwarting the process somewhat.

But you will still get a feelgood factor if you just adjust your expectations: financial reward isn’t that big, but the achievement, the stretching yourself, the measurable success, is still there.

Big rewards are analogous to sugar with diet: our bodies innately go for sweet things. If we have “essence of sweet” on offer, we’ll blindly go for that (like a dumb animal in a scientist’s experiment); but it’s not necessarily good for us. WoW and other games train us to “crave sugar” (in order to keep people paying monthly subs). GW2 dials that down a bit (perhaps a wee bit too much, there’s probably a sweet spot that they’ll adjust towards that’s a bit higher reward than at present).

No problem with multiple mobs 2, +3, even +4 and +5, if I’m really lucky (Staff/SwordFocus mostly). Yes, it takes a bit more time overall than some other classes, but it’s far from “weak” and it’s also highly survivable. It’s a fast, busy playstyle, which I love. It’s also very forgiving of taking risks (pushing the envelope sometimes reaps great rewards in terms of L2P better). It’s a tremendously deep class with a lot of versatility.

Thread title is hilarious.

So, in effect, some games in the past discovered the clever trick of addicting players so they would continue paying subscriptions every month. A game comes out that doesn’t do that, that gives them a game they can pick up and put down whenever they want, but that’s always there for them if they want it -and that’s a problem?

104 hours since launch day on my highest toon lvl 51; a few low level alts (135 hrs total).

I would consider myself casual, although in a honeymoon period with the game atm, so playing a bit more than I would normally play (1-2 hours in the evening normally).

I feel bad about killing any non-hostile creatures that get caught up in the crossfire and aggro

Main lvl 51, 4 alts at 11, 6, 6, 5

Snugglepuffz.9126:

I can’t find it in my heart to play this game anymore. Don’t get me wrong, leveling up was a lot of fun, and the areas were beautifully crafted. It’s just… missing something for me. Perhaps WoW type MMOs are more of my thing, and there’s absolutley nothing wrong with that. A lot of people prefer the GW2 style, and there’s nothing wrong with that either. I had a good 110 hours with it and definitely got my money’s worth, this just isn’t an MMO I can stick with.

Phew, finally an honest and straightforward post from someone who doesn’t find GW2 to their taste. Well done sir!

Dgenerate.1948:

People play MMO’s for LOOT.

Umm, no “people” don’t. Some people do. But whether the people who do amount to a majority or not is a moot point. (I guess Anet are going to find out )

Personally, I play MMOs for an immersive sense of adventuring in a virtual world, to play socially with other people, and to get skilled at building and playing toons. Loot is nice if and when I get it, but it’s not my primary goal.

Roleplay Lite (which I define as simply saying a few things in character while teaming with or grouping up with others) is tremendous fun and pretty much anybody can do it. City of Heroes used to be a great game for that (no worries about whether “thee” or “thou” is most appropriate ). But this game has yet to find its feet that way. I try and do it out in the field a bit, but it’s very rare that someone responds. I’ll keep trying though!

Roleplaying proper (which I would define as organized mutual storytelling – including actions) is a different kettle of fish – also a hell of a lot of fun but requiring a lot of commitment and a degree of literacy and keyboard dexterity that not everyone has.

I agree that some people (or some people sometimes) enjoy farming. You can get into a pleasant trance-like state doing the same thing again and again – into the “zone”. (You are also often refining your rotation at the same time, trying to get it sweet and perfect.)

Probably some happy medium has to be found. From what I’ve been reading of peoples’ reactions, the changes were perhaps a bit too draconian (harr harr).

Couldn’t disagree more about the waypoints. I find the waypoint system extremely immersive. Why? Because the decision of whether I want to get from A to B quickly or stop and smell the roses is totally up to me.

I often walk in the game world because it’s so beautiful and dreamlike. I encounter a lot of stuff that way. But sometimes I just want to get from A to B. The possibility of doing either at will makes the game extremely immersive because at no time am I pulled out of myself by annoyance with the travel system (as I am with most other MMOs – i.e. “mounts” are usually goofy and immersion breaking in that you can whip them out of your kitten, plus they litter up places where people congregate – Fallen Earth’s the only game that made mounts immersive by the player having to actually dismount and leave them somewhere).

Guys, guys, Anet are not to blame for this. The people to blame are a) botters and b) players who look for shortcuts and loopholes (i.e. try to “game the system”).

If neither of these types of characters existed, people who just wanted to get into a trance via farming could happily do so. But their experience has been spoiled by a) and b) and the necessity of Anet to stop botters and plug loopholes.

It’s rather like the law: if some people weren’t kittens, there would be no need for such a thing as law. Most people actually get on pretty well and wouldn’t need it. It’s the kittens and free riders who (unfortunately) create the necessity for laws.

Same again for MMOs – there’s a whole bunch of possibilities for MMO gameplay (especially in the sandbox area) that can’t be realized, because there just are some people who are kittens and free riders who, if left to their own devices, would kitten it up for everyone.

mulch.2586:

I run 2 systems side by side. One is a venerable Core2Duo (E8400 from 2008). The other is a modern i7. They both perform “about the same,” and to be honest the i7 hangs a bit more often.

It really feels like the i7 isn’t benefiting from having the 4 cores/8 threads at all.

I have a 2008 E7200 DualCore (o/c’d from 2.53Ghz to 3.8GHz) with a HD5770 card, and I get a perfectly satisfactory performance (about 25-35 fps, fine for an MMO) out of the game with everything cranked up to 11 (admittedly only on a 1280×1024 4:3 aspect ratio monitor, I think I’d have to turn shadows off or something if I were to run on a widescreen).

What I find really fascinating is how little slow-down there is when there’s lots of stuff going on. It’s a quality gameplay experience all-round, and the engine seems like it’s already been highly optimized (unlike the usual practice with MMOs recently, which has been to optimize after launch, at the risk of lots of complaints).

Oxe.6142:

Paying a sub or not is really irrelevant. Any MMO needs people or it’s not an MMO. This one especially is designed with LOTS OF PEOPLE in mind. Orr is a nightmare solo. Many events are impossible solo, if they even show up at all (it seems like the frequency of events is determined by the number of people around). If populations drop, this game simply won’t work. Not to mention, a consistent loyal playerbase means income, whether it’s through the TP, a sub, microtransactions, expansions, or some other means.

No, it’s totally relevant. A subscription-based game has to have a different ethos to keep people subscribed. A game like GW2 only needs enough people to give the game a sufficient “buzz” so it doesn’t feel dead when you log in. Obviously more people is good, but that doesn’t mean more people of a certain type (those easiliy addicted to hamster wheels so they keep paying monthly).

B2P is a game-changer, not just for players but for the developers. It frees them up quite a bit to make more of the game that they want, rather than what whiners looking to justify paying $15 a month want.

Dyranos.2406:

gurugeorge.9857:

If you’re already pursuing a particular stat line, then the weapon that’s traited will already be relevant to that stat, so why wouldn’t you want to beef it up?

This is totally incorrect, your stat lines from traits do not effect particular weapons, you can be a DPS guardian with a staff or a tanking guardian with a scepter and shield, if you improve power via traits it improves power for all weapons and not just one or two of them, so all weapons should be aviable in all builds

The weapons are designed around certain functionality – you will notice that different weapons are traited in different lines. That’s a clue about the kinds of effects a weapon in a given line maximises, and its place in that line reflects the kinds of effects it maximizes. (Notice also that the weapon traits are fairly deep in the lines.)

So yes, you can certainly use weapons other than the ones in that line, but the playstyle a weapon in a particular line encourages will be one that takes most advantage of that line. If you’re a min-maxer, this will be what you min-max around.

FarFarAway.6579:

gurugeorge.9857:

Oxe.6142:

Yes, I’m sure that’s what people in Star Wars said just before everyone left. And the happy majority, as we all know, lives happily ever after in whatever game they are now playing.

But Star Wars was a subscription MMO, so the comparison is inapt. You can’t “leave” GW or GW2 in any way that affects Arenanet’s bottom line, because you’ve already paid them all the money you’re going to pay them for the game as it is atm.

It’s an empty threat.

If you believe that, you really don’t understand the importance of microtransactions in Anet’s business model. Its not just there for “extra” spending money. Its an integral piece of the revenue projections.

GW did quite well for years without a cash shop, so I doubt that much weight is being put on it at the moment – they could probably survive without it. I’m sure it will be more important in the future, but at the moment there’s hardly anything worth buying in it, and the price of gold in terms of gems is too high.

So, since 2m people (probably more now) have bought the game already and given Arenanet their money, some people leaving now isn’t problematic. People not coming back in the future might be problematic. But that’s the thing – it’s (relatively) costless to come back (compared to a subscription MMO, where you have to ponder the decision “is it worth me subbing for a month to try it again”?)

That’s the point: there’s no need to fret either way. Play the game if and when you enjoy it, don’t play it if and when you don’t enjoy it. There’s no neurosis required on anybody’s part about anyone having to play month after month 24/7, so the game doesn’t need to be designed to cater to that pattern of play.

If you’re already pursuing a particular stat line, then the weapon that’s traited will already be relevant to that stat, so why wouldn’t you want to beef it up?

Pursuit range is really short in this game – in fact it’s one of the things I love (I find nothing more boring and annoying in the “classic” MMO vein than having to run miles just to shake off some stupid proximity aggro), so I don’t know how “trains” are possible, unless it’s in camp in a dangerous area, in which case you should always be on your toes anyway, since friendly camps sometimes change hands.

Oxe.6142:

Yes, I’m sure that’s what people in Star Wars said just before everyone left. And the happy majority, as we all know, lives happily ever after in whatever game they are now playing.

But Star Wars was a subscription MMO, so the comparison is inapt. You can’t “leave” GW or GW2 in any way that affects Arenanet’s bottom line, because you’ve already paid them all the money you’re going to pay them for the game as it is atm.

It’s an empty threat.

If you’ve gotten bored with GW2, it’s costless both for you and for Arenanet if you just stop playing, and it’s also costless for you, and virtually costless for Arenanet, if you come back again if and when you get a hankering to revisit the bits you did enjoy.

It’s a totally different psychology from a subscription-based game. The typical “pattern” for MMOs doesn’t apply here. You can drop it when you’re bored, and pick it up again when you remember the fun you did have.

You aren’t obliged to try and get your money’s worth for month after month, and therefore to pester the developers to provide something that entertains you 24/7 for month after month. Nor are the developers obliged to accommodate people who have that mindset of “entertain us continuously month after month” – thereby dragging the integrity of the concept of a virtual world down to the level of a nonsensical hamster wheel.

shycrow.5982:

Anything with a ‘Haha, now you see me, now you don’t!’ mechanic. Seriously, just reappear/come out of the ground so I can kill you already /yawn

Oh yeah, I hate those too. Those and the Cave Bats

Death Aggro.9602:

flynn.4193:

Until there’s actually evidence of an exodus, Anet need not worry. Every MMO has its share of vociferous malcontents, and until game purchases and logins significantly decline, I don’t expect Anet to make any significant changes. For all we know, the vast majority of GW2 players prefer Anet’s endgame vision.

Your statement couldnt be more false. Look at fansites and this forum. There is so much complaining about loot etc etc. Ive seen games forums do this and i can tell you where they are now. either decomissioned or F2P. I am seeing and hearing more problems than likes. The game is young. But for those of us who arent still lvling its a diffrent game. So if u havnt been 80 for a few weeks you probably shouldnt comment on “end game.”

Yeah, but nobody cares about those complaints. These people are geeing each other up in an empty room.

They don’t understand that NOBODY CARES ABOUT THEIR PRECIOUS, BORING OPINIONS ABOUT THE “ENDGAME”. Their opinions carry no weight here because this isn’t a subscription game. They and their ilk have no leverage whatsoever. Forum angst has no weight here, because absolutely nothing hangs on it, Anet doesn’t care whether these people carry on playing or not, because THEY ALREADY HAVE THESE PEOPLES’ MONEY, and they’re going to make the game the way they want to make it (and thank God for that – games designed by forum whiners are a million times worse than games designed by developers).

And let’s face it, anyone who says they haven’t gotten $60 worth of entertainment out of the game is a barefaced liar.

The game is a take it or leave it deal. kitten off if you don’t like it.

Jesus wept. Look, I wasn’t particularly into GW, so not an Anet fanboi, and was only peripherally aware of GW2 (checked out maybe a couple of articles and a Youtube vid or two) and actually distrusted the massive hype buildup.

But even I knew there would be no “endgame” as in traditional MMOs!

How many times does it have to be said that the gear grind is totally optional?

In this game, you can get max stat gear without (much) grinding. If you want max stat gear that also has a particular look, you have to grind for it.

i.e. unlike every other MMO, YOU DON’T HAVE TO GRIND FOR EFFECTIVENESS.

Simples.

Now, some people like that, and others don’t. But what you can’t say is that you’re “forced” to grind.

ITT: OP doesn’t understand the difference between a subscription game and a B2P game.

Clue: “I quit” threads only carry weight in a subscription game, in a B2P game nobody cares, Anet have already gotten your money.

And since it’s no subs, if you had any enjoyment out of the game at all, you’ll probably want to come back to check it out later anyway, once your current nerdrage has cooled off.

That’s the point: no great shakes, don’t like it don’t play it. Try it again later you might like it again, or not. Or you might pay for a paid expansion a year from now (seeing as you did have some fun out of the game, maybe you can get a single-player game’s worth of fun out of it again).

This gives Anet a lot of freedom to make the game the way they want to make it, thereby attracting the sorts of people who want to play that game (the one they’ve designed).

Every MMO has ’em. What are your pet hates in GW2?

Mine are Cave Bats. I fricken hate Cave Bats. Something about them just rubs me up the wrong way. They have too many HP for their importance.

Vargs.6234:

Endgame PvE options at level 80:

-Get 100% world completion. This is pretty fun most of the time, but it’s over quite quickly unless you’re sitting around waiting on bugged skillpoints, or for your server to change WvW positions so that you can pick up PoIs/vistas.

-Do events. But why? They’re really just the same old “mindlessly mash 1 against waves of harmless enemies that run straight into the AoE killing fields” sort of thing you’ve done from 1-80. It tends to be more than a little mind-numbing and I don’t really know why I would spend my free time doing it. You can get some money and karma for ugly orange gear, but that doesn’t seem like a great motivator. I already have enough cash/karma to buy full 80 oranges but I haven’t even bothered. My 78 oranges are worse by a whole couple stat points and don’t need fine transmutation stones.

-Do explore mode dungeons. These are extremely frustrating, buggy nightmares, and that’s assuming you can even somehow manage to get 4 other poor idiots to waste their time to lose money and get 1% closer to some armor set. Considering how difficult that can be, good luck getting all of the massive amount of tokens you’ll need, especially when only a small fraction of the playerbase is even good enough to make progress in them. I want to like dungeons, but they are incredibly unfun and very reminiscent of D3 Inferno.

-Get more crafting professions to 400. There is absolutely zero reason to do this unless you really like throwing money away. Save time and just give it away.

-Get a legendary weapon. Haha! Right.

I don’t really know what to do at this point aside from play alts, which doesn’t seem particularly appealing. Already defended enough circles against 7 waves of centaurs. Mashing 1 to try and tag everything isn’t gonna be all that different on a warrior than a thief.

LOL, that’s absolutely hilarious – poster deliberately reduces the gameplay to the most boring, mechanistic thing he can possibly do, and then complains that he’s bored.

Genius!

I enjoyed it, it’s concise and I think will give any experienced MMO player a good idea of what to expect.

Criticisms: maybe it could do with some background audio from the game, or some bits of music here and there?

Baxuz.1943:

Bumped. This happens to me as well.

Yup, I get this too. I keep wondering if this (and the occasional missing thread response options other than “link”) is a Firefox problem (e.g. I use “colorful tabs”)?