Guild Wars 2

I find it’s actually worthwhile chatting while you’re doing things like escort quests. The “walk” is time enough to strike up conversations. Often, that way, you’ll find you will temporarily team up (without even having to form a team) to do a string of a few heart quests, or DEs. Sometimes you even pick up more people as you go, and you become a zerg

Star Ace.5207:

gurugeorge.9857:

Actually it’s a huge mistake for an MMO to neglect its roleplaying community as Socializers are usually amongst the most “sticky” players, along with the “hardcore” Achievers (raiders, etc.). It’s the Explorers and Player-Killers who tend to be fickle (I say that as an Explorer myself – once I’ve “done” a game’s “Environment”, it loses interest for me).

So although I’m only a small percent roleplayer, I think the OP is quite right to ask for more rp-friendly stuff in the game, it can only do the game long-term good, given the relatively low cost of making such stuff.

Observe the effort Wildstar is making to show off its rp-friendly side (its amazing-looking Housing system, and its whole path dedicated to rp – the Builder).

As to the argument “oh you can rp with any tools”, yes of course, but when a game is graphics oriented, lack of rp-friendly things in the graphics/world-building is a negative.

But what is so RP unfriendly in this game?

It’s a matter of numbers (role-players are a true minority, and since we see so few, we assume the game is “alienating” them), and not a real problem, IMHO.

I don’t think the game is “not RP friendly” as the OP has it – that’s going too far – but the call for more rp-friendly stuff should always be at the back of a developer’s mind. It’s not negligible.

It’s negligible in the first instance because, as you say, roleplayers are a minority. But the overall “tone” of a game can slip gradually from “virtual world” to “multiplayer lobby” if the rp side isn’t nurtured to some extent.

Lore and immersion are important, otherwise we might as well be emailing spreadsheets at each other.

Personally, I do it without help until and unless I spend more than 10 minutes trying to puzzle it out, then I look for a cheat. On the one hand, it definitely is more fun discovering things for yourself, on the other hand, life’s too short to spend too much of it being stuck on a videogame puzzle.

Actually it’s a huge mistake for an MMO to neglect its roleplaying community as Socializers are usually amongst the most “sticky” players, along with the “hardcore” Achievers (raiders, etc.). It’s the Explorers and Player-Killers who tend to be fickle (I say that as an Explorer myself – once I’ve “done” a game’s “Environment”, it loses interest for me).

So although I’m only a small percent roleplayer, I think the OP is quite right to ask for more rp-friendly stuff in the game, it can only do the game long-term good, given the relatively low cost of making such stuff.

Observe the effort Wildstar is making to show off its rp-friendly side (its amazing-looking Housing system, and its whole path dedicated to rp – the Builder).

As to the argument “oh you can rp with any tools”, yes of course, but when a game is graphics oriented, lack of rp-friendly things in the graphics/world-building is a negative.

Ratphink.4751:

Doctor Edward Said’s theory of Orientalism. Lookit up, because Cantha is a textbook example of it.

But then the garbling of European mediaeval and 17th century and various European cultural types in Asian MMOs is an example of Asian “Occidentalism”, and we ought to be offended by it.

In fact, the elephant in the room is that China was always the top dog in the region, and most Asian cultures borrowed heavily from it (as indeed a few influences went the other way), so everything Far Eastern perforce looks “vaguely Chinese” in a quite objective way.

It’s a fascinating topic, but I think the foofaraw about “Orientalism” is more a case of Western breast-beating, egged on by Said, who himself is about as Western-enculturated as they come. All cultures take whatever they fancy from other cultures, and take things out of context. There are Amazonian tribesmen with Coke t-shirts. Presumably they wouldn’t wear them if they didn’t like them

Very positive ideas, +1

I’m not surprised they don’t need to do an expansion. I know for myself that I’ve spent easily the equivalent of a subscription for the months I’ve played (bank unlock, char unlock, etc.). And I’ve been quite happy to do so.

If they get it right and they do add content at the equivalent rate of doing major expansions every year, I’d be happy with that too. Of course it remains to be seen whether it’s possible for them to do, but that seems to be what they’re aiming for – i.e. I envisage it that each temp content leaves a few things behind, and there are occasional unlockings of new areas, so that the cumulative net result is about equal to a major update every year or two.

I don’t have any aversion to guilds in principle, and in the several MMOs I’ve played, I remember two guilds that were just great, good people, fun times. But on the whole, my play in these games is too intermittent, so what tends to happen is that I’ll join a guild, make friends, then be out of the game for a while, and when I come back the trail is cold, as it were – of course everyone’s still friendly, but the camaraderie that was there before from my point of view, and had built up, is gone, as those who stayed continued to build their friendship, and others who joined and stayed built it up with them. So it’s always a bit sad coming back to a guild after a break.

Hence, I’ve joined guilds less and less over the years, and tend to play more solo with PUG-ing on the side. GW2 is nice because of the “pseudo-social” aspect of open world events. It means I can sometimes have conversations with people with no strings attached, which is nice.

Totally agree with the OP.

It’s ok to get bored with a game that you enjoy, it’s ok to drop it for a while, it’s ok to come back.

Where is it written in stone that MMOs have to be things that people have to play 24/7 all days in the year and keep enjoying it?

That sort of thing only ever happens once – in the game in which you first discovered the “magic” of MMOs, the one that you played for a year or more.

But if you don’t have that “magic” feeling of discovery of the MMO space, doing repetitive stuff without that motivation, that drive, just becomes a pain in the butt – a “grind”.

So if you feel you’re doing too much repetitive stuff, leave the game until you’ve forgotten it, come back when it’s fresh and when things have changed a bit. It’s almost guaranteed that you’ll enjoy it again.

Agree that the Order stuff is underplayed. My main joined the Priory expecting adventures while discovering knowledge, and there was some of that, then nothing.

/bumping Still no sign of a response to ticket, still no sign of anything official regarding this. And I still can’t play the game unless I switch to my mobile connection.

Looking at what I’ve been saying “from the other end of the telescope”, as it were – when I was in love with my first MMO, the “grind” was almost invisible. It was such an amazing experience that I was compelled to play it. But that amazingness wasn’t inherent in the repetitive aspect of the gameplay, but rather in it being a virtual world in which I could fight in teams with other people against mobs, or against other people.

It’s once that feeling of discovery and addiction to this new things fades, that “grind” becomes grind. What one did naturally before, because the whole thing was a new experience one was addicted to, becomes a chore, a second job.

And it’s a chore, a second job, in any game subsequent to that first one, because the “magic” feeling that backed it up isn’t there any more.

matemaster.2168:

GW2 is great game
I stopped playing it in january because i was 100% bored with the game
But 4 months later the boredom expired and I am havin a blast playing GW2 again

The most important thing is I didnt miss anything in the meaning of being competetive

I think this is how Anet expect most people will play the game. Obviously they’re also trying to design it partly for the 24/7 crowd too, and that will include mostly first-timers for whom it’s a new, amazing experience, to which they’re heavily addicted and may well play solidly for a year or two.

But the majority of people who have bought GW2 won’t be playing it 24/7 all year, IMHO. Is that a good or a bad thing for GW2?

Well, why should they? There’s no subscription fee. Pick it up when you have a hankering for it, enjoy the hell out of it for as long as you enjoy the hell out of it, get bored with it, and come back again in a few months when there’s something new.

Let’s be honest, isn’t that how most of us have always played MMOs (the ones we played after the one that hooked us) anyway? Hopping from one to another? Well GW2 is partly designed to cater to that, and you don’t even have to pay a subscription!

In the new MMO space, I think quality MMOs will be defined not by their addictive power to keep you playing all the time, so much as by their ability to be a virtual place that’s seductive enough in memory to make you want to come back after breaks. The marketplace is more competitive – but it’s also still potentially hugely expandable. There are a lot of people who haven’t “gotten” the older MMO format, precisely because it was a Skinner Box. Those are new people who haven’t felt the “magic” yet. (The “magic” was never in the Skinner Box, it was always in the “being in a virtual space with other people”.) So that new marketplace demands a different kind of seductiveness, less to do with addiction, and more to do with intense bursts of fun.

For example, SWTOR was fun for a while, and I may play it again, but I’ve only ever hotly hankered for it once after the initial month-and-a-bit jag. Once you’ve gone through it once with one character, it’s totally hollow. With GW2, by contrast, it has a firm seat in my memory as a dreamlike “place”; whenever I’m not playing it, and it pops into memory, my thoughts of it are fond, and every now and then I just have to play it again.

Another contemporary MMO like that is TSW – every now and then, memories come flooding back and I think “yeah, gotta play that again”.

Suppose Wildstar is good – I bet you it will be designed partly with that idea in mind too, as being a virtual place that has a strong seduction in memory, so you want to come back to it, not as something you feel, almost against your will, that you have … to … keep … playing … because …. dammit …. you’re …. paying … for … it.

Because once the “magic” faded, wasn’t that the only reason to keep playing? Because one was paying for it and felt one had to get one’s money’s worth?

I realize I haven’t mentioned the important thing of friends. Certainly that’s very important in keeping someone playing (especially for younger players) – even if you are a bit bored with the game. But let’s face it, online friends are good fun, but not as stable as irl friends. With irl friends, again, it’s a matter of trying to persuade them to join you. But do they have to play 24/7 too? What’s wrong with groups of friends coming and going too?

Stranger.2039:

I’m still waiting to see what the Scepter’s message to us was.

It was the first bit, before the “message from revelations”. So far, I thought it was quite amusing (like the tone of a miffed and slightly under-appreciated Scepter), but the “message” was irritating in its condescension.

Not a bad idea actually. I’d like to see more variety in the Legendaries. The ones that exist are pretty impressive, for sure, but thematically none of them fit with my main so I’m not interested yet. Where’s the Sylvari-themed Staff with living vines constantly intertwining?

I agree, it’s a bit stupid. They’re “collectibles”, yes, but in a totally different way from crafting resources and they shouldn’t be treated like crafting resources. Poor little things.

hello, someone from Anet, anyone?

Look, the key to it all is simply psychological. Everyone thinks the MMO they first played is “the best MMO ever”, because it’s the game in which they first felt an amazing magical feeling of being in a virtual world with thousands of other players.

But the sad and unfortunate fact of the matter is that you can only experience that feeling of magical discovery once. Right now, there are probably a few tens of thousands of players who are feeling that feeling with GW2 right now. But there are many more tens of thousands of players for whom this isn’t their first rodeo, so they’re constantly comparing GW2 with their “first love”.

For me that was City of Heroes – in my mind, no MMO could possibly compete with CoH when I first played it, it was probably the best gaming experience of my whole life, and I’ll never feel that intensity and “magic” again.

For others, their first MMO was UO, or EQ, or SWG, or EVE Online, or WoW, etc., etc., etc.

So naturally, when you compare every game that comes after your “first love” with subsequent games, they all do things slightly differently. The paradox is, that you want a game that does things different from your first love (because you’re probably burnt out on that style of gameplay) but at the same time you want the gameplay to be the same, but better and with different skins (because that’s what you’re familiar and cozy with).

But you’ll never get that “magic” back. Not quite, not in its full form, just as echoes.

I think 90% of arguments on MMO forums are the result of this syndrome, and this unfortunate fact: you will never feel the “magic” again, but you keep chasing it, and you kitten to hell any MMO that doesn’t provide it. But no MMO ever will.

Just be happy that others are experiencing that “magic” right now, in whatever MMO they’re playing for the first time, and be content with the slight return of that “magical” feeling you can get either when playing a new MMO, or returning to one you’ve liked before.

GW2 has, I believe, been designed with this in mind. It’s an MMO for first time players, obviously, but also for people who are burnt out on MMOs, but still want to have a game they can come back to now and again to have an echo of that “magic” feeling.

The thing to remember about GW2 is that you aren’t forced to play it continuously because you’ve paid a subscription. If something you want has been promised, but isn’t in the game yet, leave it for a while and come back when it comes.

Chill, relax, take it easy, it’s just a game. For my part, I’m in love with GW2 all over again, for about the third time after coming back after a break. Is that bad? Is that not how an MMO is “supposed” to be? I don’t care, all I know is that the game is here for me when I have a hankering for it, and each time I come back there are some new things, and each time I come back I fall in love with its charm all over again.

Ryth.6518:

FateOmega.9601:

Maybe it will retain some people but at the same time, it will deter new players from joining the game.

Yep. In fact, the temp content is not bringing me or my friends back (about 8 of them).

We want content that is permanent and we can do when we have the time. And that content progresses the story and game.

The point was about new players, not returning players.

But I think temp content is actually beneficial for some returning players too, although obviously not you and your friends. I know this because it’s certainly beneficial to me as a player who keeps returning, and there are enough responses here on the forums with a similar point of view.

I don’t see how new players can be “deterred” by temp content. When a new player starts the game, the content is the content. If it changes (i.e. something is removed), that means the content is changing, which is a good thing, stops the game from becoming stale.

Now obviously, many players want something to get their teeth into, i.e. difficult permanent content for high level players. But I don’t see anything in the way the game has been developed so far to suggest that that’s not going to come.

It may not come fast enough for some people – fair enough, just leave the game and come back later when there’s some new content of that type. YOU AREN’T OBLIGED TO KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME BECAUSE YOU’VE PAID A SUBSCRIPTION.

And as I’ve already said, I don’t think anybody plays an MMO 24/7 for more than a year unless it’s their first MMO when they first feel the “magic”. Thereafter, why on earth would you want to play any MMO 24/7? You can never recapture that intensity of “magic” you had with your first love, and no MMO possibly created can do it for you. That’s just the reality. The best you can do is get slight returns of it when you play a new MMO, or when you return to one you’ve already loved after a break.

I should imagine big new permanent content will be part of paid expansions, as in GW, while the “living story” content is stuff that will have mostly temporary content, with some bits staying.

I really don’t see any problem with this at all. It’s actually more than most MMOs manage, in terms of “a succession of different things to play”.

I think the subtext is that we’re being “fobbed off” with temporary content. I don’t think that’s the case at all, and I don’t see any reason to think it.

It may not be the best game ever (that accolade I reserve for the original System Shock ), but it’s certainly one of the top MMOs out at the moment, without question. I have GW2, EVE Online and TSW on a rotation, with the occasional bit of SWTOR. Each time I come back to GW2, I love it, love it, love it. It’s just so vast and huge and beautiful and cute, and there’s so much to do for a casual player like me. I don’t anticipate GW2 ever falling off my MMO rotation.

I’ve already addressed this matter in the other topic that has the negative take. I agree that the temporary, frequent content is the way to go, not only for players for whom it is their first MMO, and with which they’re feeling the “magic” and will stick with it for a good long while, but also for jaded old hands who only ever play any given MMO for a month or two, and “MMO hop”. I’ve dipped in and out of GW2 several times now, and each time it feels a bit fresh because of that added content – even though (at the moment) I hardly do any of it, it changes the “feel” of the game enough to make it feel alive.

Kite.2510:

Please stop with the temporary content!

You might be thinking “We are keeping old players in the game.” but that way you are also “locking new players out” and “sending quitted players away”.

A player who left sometime near launch and is thinking of rejoining, will dreadfully realize that “not much content have been? added (besides pvp stuff), despite the gigantic patches”

A new player who is thinking of joining, will be told “There was a lot of story behind this the latest content, but you have to read about it on a wiki to catch up”.

In this forum we are all GW2 players, so it’s hard to get to that mindset…
…but the idea of Temporary content can actually be an obstacle for people in the process of deciding whether they should join/rejoin the game.

Also, its a big pain when for whatever reason you are in a situation that you can play for a long period of time. (exams, vacations away from home, job, being drafted for military service, being temporary occupied with a new other game).
I’m currently struggling to keep up with all the temporary stuff wille studding for my exams, getting ready for my 2 week travel in Germany and playing Dragons Dogma on my PS3, and if for whatever reason I have to stay away for some long period of time, getting back won’t be an easy choice for me, since I know there won’t be much new stuff to come back to…

Honestly, I couldn’t disagree more. Not only is the feature not meant for older players, IMHO, but rather for returning players, I think it actually works well for that. I’ve dipped into and out of GW2 several times now, and each time I come back there’s something fresh and interesting that keeps me hooked for a while.

I love MMOs, but I’ve never been able to play any MMO other than my first love (City of Heroes) for more than a month at a time – even when they were all subscription, I used to “MMO hop”, a month on this MMO, 2 months on that one, etc.

This game is, I believe, designed for that behaviour, as I think (though it’s just an opinion) that this is actually how the majority of people have always played MMOs, once they get over their love affair with their first (which is usually more than a year).

IOW, one’s first MMO is the one that one will spend most time in, where one first feels the “magic”. Thereafter, the “magic” can never be recaptured – or rather, it can be somewhat recaptured by “rediscovering” MMOs one has already played, after a suitable grace period, after one has forgotten a good deal about the game. (And of course by trying new ones – and this, I believe more than anything else, was the reason for large uptake and fast decline after a few months, as the general pattern of subscription MMOs before the current period. Discovering a new MMO, again, brings on the “magic” feeling for a while, but after a month or two, it’s the same old same old, and one might as well go back to another game one enjoyed previously, if not more.)

I think Anet have taken note of this phenomenon and have designed GW2 largely around such casual behaviour, because I have to say, for that kind of use, the game is absolutely perfect. I am currently in a head-over-heels-in-love period with the game again, which I anticipate will last several weeks, then I’ll drift to another MMO (I’ve been switching between GW2, EVE Online and TSW recently, with some SWTOR on the side.)

Put simply, I think most people (and by “most people” I mean the great unwashed who never visit forums but make up the bulk of the numbers) only spend a concentrated period of time with their first MMO, and thereafter they “MMO hop” – for that type of behaviour, GW2 really fits the bill as a great game on the “rota”, partly because of the temp content and “living world” content making the game a bit fresh each time you come back to it. I hope they continue and I hope Tyria keeps changing – just like a real place that you’d either live in or visit now and then.

Sometimes, when there’s a dynamic event brewing nearby, you hear some of the NPCs talking about it (e.g. they’re preparing, or talking about the prospects of success, or arguing, or something). I appreciate that this is meant to alert you aurally to there being something brewing nearby, but it’s genearlly TOO kitten LOUD, it sounds like it’s right in my ear, like they’re right next to me, even though they’re several hundred game “yards” away. I’m sure you could have the same alerting effect with them being much quieter and a bit more muffled with distance.

Generally sounds are great in this game, and well balanced, but personally, this particular feature (or bug?) is becoming a positive annoyance that jerks me out of immersion.

Bumping for great justice – it’s happened again. It seems to happen after every update, then a while later it seems to be ok. I WANNA PLAY MY ASURA!!!!

And still no response to the ticket I sent in.

Doesn’t “skill ceiling” mean “affords the most opportunity for personal skill to make a big difference”?

IOW, what it means is that there are some classes that are designed to be easier to play, you can mash less buttons carelessly to do job X, whereas another class will have to press more buttons with more precise timing to do job X. The latter are “high skill ceiling” classes.

With that I’d say Engineer, Elementalist and Mesmer, in that order; then Necro, Thief and Guardian somewhere in the middle, with Ranger and Warrior being “easy mode”. At least, that’s my experience of it anyway.

That’s a completely different thing from saying that a class like the Warrior or Thief can be played really, really well, to a degree better than most people play it. Of course that’s true – if a class is of the first type, easy to play, then when someone who is innately skilled plays it, they’ll play it with a skill and elegance most people don’t.

But that high degree of skill isn’t necessary to play the character.

That’s different from “high skill ceiling”, which means that a high degree of skill is necessary to play the class to its full potential, or “high skill floor”, which means that a high degree of skill is necessary to play it even competently.

Yeah there’s something a bit lacking in the armor design department at Anet. Can’t stand RNG so don’t waste my money on keys, but I’d buy, buy, buy armor that was mix-and-matchable and had great variety.

But I guess it’s cheaper for Anet, labour-wise, to have RNG lockboxes with stuff drawn from a table, than to have a team of artists constantly designing cool new armor sets.

HiddenNick.7206:

I mean… In most of other MMO’s it’s all about achievement. Developers gives you new ways to acquire more powerful items and then you can use those items to overcome certain challenges and receive even more powerful gear or other rewards like unique skins or mounts.

On other hand in guild wars 2… You just farm gold or look for better ways to farm gold (it’s the easiest way to earn all of the game rewards). Or participate in the new events with no particular objective. Just for doubtful fun? I mean… Are all those mini games worth playing? I have a lot more fun playing on my smartphone 1$ games.

There is not even a slight feeling of achievement here.

It’s about helping the races of an imaginary fantasy realm called Tyria get together and fight against a common enemy.

Harbard.5738:

I have a feeling these crazy people begging for gear grind are going to make anet take another dump into their game sooner than later.

I don’t think developers are ever really influenced by people whining on forums, they’re only influenced by the bottom line and the metrics they have access to that we don’t.

That is to say, if their statistics and metrics show them that they need to have an endgame gear grind, then they’ll put one in – nothing else will make them put it in, because they’ve got a vision, and if they make their targeted money with that vision they’ll be happy. But if they don’t make the money they expect to make with that vision, then they’ll change.

Sabelle.2159:

I thought I would be nice to take the time out to teach new members runs they don’t understand, but I simply refuse to anymore. I will not indulge another Kevlar during my enjoyment in this game.

I’m pretty sure Kevlar will try to report me, because he’s just that much of a moron.

I agree with the what someone said above – sounds like dedicated trolling. There are people out there who get their fun from ruining others’ fun. Gotta be a bit tougher and kick someone like that early on.

Someone who’s genuinely slow or stupid (and therefore worth persevering with, in a kind way) would be expressing more confusion, it sounds like the guy was just laughing at you.

That’s what trolling is: when people are taking something seriously, you take the kitten out of it.

I get this error code from the char select screen when I hit “play” quite often. Sometimes the game loads up fine, sometimes I get this message. Any help greatly appreciated. I sent in a ticket about a week ago but no response.

Vayne.8563:

Okay OP the new PPS is better than the last, but of course, who gets to judge which arguments are ignorant. It’s like saying if you think an argument is ignorant than it must be…which is still offensive…but it’s better than it was…so I’ll reply to the post now.

I get exactly what you’re saying about the whole ascended gear/legendary thing. This game has a problem, and the problem is, it’s not really made for people who are goal-oriented to the exclusion of all else. I understand you play this way, but not everyone is going to.

I like having smaller more easily attained goals, rather than longer goals (though I find a mix of both best). So with the living story I have 2 week goals (or a month or whatever) and with the legendary I have the longer goal that doesn’t consume me. It’s fine. I’ll get my second legendary eventually. Same with gearing up my guys in ascended gear. I’ll get it when I get it.

This is the best attitude to approach the game with. For those who really want to be constantly challenged, this game probably doesn’t provide enough variety. But for those of us who want the occasional challenge, mixed in with a beautiful world that we enjoy exploring or even just re-experiencing, it’s a different story.

Progression is what a lot of people crave in MMOs, but in the old days, it wasn’t this way. In older RPGs your progress was determined by where you were in the story, not what gear you had. And I think that’s what Guild Wars 2 is trying to recapture (with mixed success I might add).

I think certain player types love this game, because there’s no other MMO really like it, and other player types don’t love this game because they’ve come to expect other experiences from MMOs, and they’re really not equipped to see what Anet is trying to do.

My thing is, by starting with pen and paper RPing many years ago, this is more like that experience to me than any other MMO has been. Since that experience is what I’ve been looking for, this is a good (though not a great) MMO for me. I assume it will get better over time as well.

In the mean time, it’s not the game that’s deficient and it’s not that you’re wrong. It’s the compatibility between your desires for a game and what the developers are actively trying to do.

This is why so many people do end up saying things like, “this game is not for you.” I’m not saying it, but maybe now you see the reasoning.

Great post this.

Going by the famous Bartle Types, people forget that hardcore Achievers are only one of several playstyles. The reason games have been designed more for them during the years of subscription MMOs was because they’re more liable to enjoy the Skinner Box treatment, and keep subscribing. But even with WoW, most players weren’t like that at all – despite the vast numbers of people who tried WoW, the retention rate was never that great, the “churn” rate was high, and by Blizzard’s own admission, most people who have played WoW never got beyond level 30 or so.

I think this is what Anet must have primarily taken note of with GW2, with the result that they’ve re-thunk the whole thing. Design the game with Explorers, Socializers and Player-Killers in mind too (so far, they’re not doing so good with the Socializers, but with the other two types, they’re doing pretty well). Also, don’t worry so much about attracting Achievers, therefore don’t worry so much about having grind as the number one feature of the endgame. Add new content so the game feels a bit fresh each time you come back to it (which it does, for me at least).

All this makes GW2 have a more compelling virtual world feel, it feels more rounded somehow than what subscription MMOs eventually culminated in (WoW). For me, it’s like a “place” that I keep coming back to. I don’t play it all the time, I dip in and out of it, and enjoy the hell out of it when I’m playing it, but don’t feel compelled to play it all the time to “get anywhere”.

I’m pretty sure that the game is designed more for this type of use, rather than the “24/7 must play all day and every day to achieve x” type of use.

Hehe, glad you got it sorted

Ision.3207:

Lots of games have good end-game IF …………………

IF … gaming is not your primary activity in life.

In other words, If you have a girlfriend and spend time with her, if you have a full time job, if you have other responsibilities in life that take a great deal of your time, if you enjoy other hobbies or forms of entertainment other than cartoon video games, and for the teenagers: if your parents monitor your gaming hours and ensure its not excessive … if these things are true, then games like GW2 or WoW or Lotro or or …. will give you hours and hours of great fun, with a seemingly endless number of activities to do.

On the other hand, if you spend 5 hours a day, 6 days a week playing the exact same cartoon video game … then NO, there is absolutely no game I know of that will have an endgame for you, because you will have consumed the game within a few short months. In essence, if the game has become a full-time job in itself, you will not find an “end-game” in any MMO that I know of.

Very true post on the whole – but … EVE Online. And other true sandboxes.

And, possibly (this is more a thing for the future, something that’s developing) …. games with UGC, like STO or Neverwinter (kitten wish they’d put the foundry in CO too ).

Fundamentally, no game with only dev-created content is ever going to have “enough” content. The only option for real longevity is that the players can somehow create content themselves. In a lot of “themepark” MMOs in the past, this was somewhat handled by things like housing and other “fluff” activities; and “sandbox” games are of course designed for this very purpose.

The catch is that sandbox games require more dedication and commitment from their players, so they’re only ever going to be niche – also, player-created content is fine and fun for those who are making it, but you can’t beat a good story written by a professional storyteller.

That’s why I do actually see UGC as a bit of a saviour for “themepark” MMOs in the future. Cryptic have been pioneering this, and are the most expert in the field so far, but I’m sure other companies are going to get into it too (it’s already part of some of the less hardcore games out there).

Ultimately, it’s always been a dream for MMORPGs to have evolving dev-created content (which is what Anet are trying to do with “living world”), and/or endless content created by players. But for the latter part, it’s not been technically feasible to have players designing game parts until relatively recently.

In the real world, we create “content” for each other that’s endlessly entertaining. It should theoretically be possible to set up virtual worlds in the same way, and I’m sure games will get better and better at it.

So long as people are stupid enough to buy RNG boxes, developers and publishers will keep making them, because that’s how they make money.

Both boastfulness and envy are considered moral flaws.

The only situation in which this has been true for me in games has been when there’s a “Bard” class available. As a musician irl, I like to play Bards.

But other than that, I’m not sure it’s a general truth – it can be the opposite, since it’s a roleplaying game people can play something that’s totally unconnected to their personality.

Onis.2418:

Lack of life. I tried it once, the graphics were great, but there was never any sorta rewards, the story sucked and pvp was completely unbalanced.

ROFLMAO, so true.

Often the reason why people switch isn’t because they’re chasing the FOTM, it’s because something the devs have done has nerfed a build that they worked on for a long time. That can be discouraging and offputting, so it’s understandable that they’ll switch to another class.

sigh “The Community” is not necessarily represented on these forums. That’s not to say that forums are useless, but I’d think any devs who actually acted on most of the crap spouted in forums would be in real trouble.

In actual fact, only a very few regular forum users are usually worth listening to – those who do number crunching and have rational arguments. The rest is just junk – people looking at a whole game from their own myopikittentle corner, having tantrums because devs don’t listen to their special snowflake point of view.

I feel for the OP, but I don’t think it’s realistic for an Explorer type (which you seem to be) to expect a themepark game to hold your attention that long. Dev-created content always has limits, the only thing that can keep some people in the game after that is some sort of endgame hamster-wheel, and that only works for the Achievers.

But Anet don’t need to keep people in this game. It’s not a subscription game, so they don’t have to keep people continuously engaged. Don’t think of it as a virtual world or a virtual home, think of it as somewhere you can visit now and then, and be engaged for a while, then leave again, etc.

No need to be bitter, just pop your head in now and then, and if something new has appared that engages you, enjoy it.

MMORPGs have long ceased being virtual worlds to hang out in, they’re all just prettily-dressed up lobbies for combat grinds now. I think the only one that’s left that still feels like a virtual world is EVE Online.

Anet are at least trying to keep things fresh with the living world content and by changing things up now and then. That means that if you leave the game for a few months, it should be different enough to be interesting to explore for a bit.

I don’t think you can realistically hope for much more.

Interesting post in general, but I’m not sure what your conclusions are.

I agree that the “milk the kiddies of their dad’s credit card” approach isn’t long for this world. But GW2 wasn’t made that way originally, was it?

And I don’t see how the cutscene variations are relevant to this. (Chalk me up as another who loves the originality of the puppet theatre with painted background. It has a formalism that I quite like. I think the puppet scenes have always been more “conversations” rather than cutscenes per se. )

Horses for courses. I found GW1 interesting but it didn’t hook me at all. GW2 has hooked me. Just the change to a full-on open world has made all the difference for me. The world instancing in GW1 was too much of a barrier for me to enjoy the PvE. The combat in GW1 felt “floaty” and lots of the abilities didn’t do much. The combat in GW2 feels “solid” and every time I change the build there’s a definite, noticeable difference in playstyle.

It’s all just personal preferences. I think in the end GW2 is likely to hook more people than GW1 did, but I appreciate that for some of those who loved GW1 this game is likely to be a bit disappointing.

The main thing I think that’s different for me is that I can pick up GW2 and put it down, and enjoy it each time I pick it up. I never got that from GW1, it felt like a chore to pick it up again. In this age of casual MMOs, I think GW2’s got a good chance of keeping people interested in that way. But it’s not going to satisfy people who like living 24/7 in their MMO.

Orr looks amazing, and it’s quite fun to wander around in. I don’t find any particular problem with mob density or snaring or what have you.

What I do hate is the zombie theme. I’m sick to death of kittening zombies. Every kittening game has kittening zombies in it these days. Enough with the zombies please.

Underwater combat is kitten easy and lots of fun. I’ve never understood what the fuss is about. You just have to get used to being situationally aware in 3-d. L2P.

That said, I think it’s a side-show, and it’s right that it should be. It’s in the game more for a change of pace than as an equal part of the game to the land stuff. But I hope they continue to develop it at that level.

It varies, actually, sometimes I feel powerful relative to the mobs, sometimes not.

It’s odd really, I can have a run of feeling godly, but then something stupid happens and I die like a chump to a spider or something.

But it’s usually my not paying attention to something that causes it. If I’m concentrating and in the zone, yes I feel godly. But the game does punish goofing off quite severely, especially on the squishies like the Mesmer.

tolunart.2095:

TooBz.3065:

Nope. My point is that dailies require people with a short period of time to choose between doing things that are intrinsically rewarding (fun) or extrinsically rewarding (gear). In other words, either you play for fun or you play for the reward.

But I believe to the average player, the choices for the daily reward are primarily things he is doing anyway – harvest, craft, kill enemies, salvage, dynamic events – and secondarily requires only a minor change from his normal play – like going to Ashford Plains for a while to finish one of the dailies. So to the average player it’s not a chore or an inconvenience, but rather a small reward for doing what he’s doing anyway.

Since most players don’t care about limited-use items like Ascended gear, or at least don’t NEED to obtain it for every alt, and don’t feel compelled to dominate the leader boards (because the average player is never getting near the top 1000 anyway), it’s not a daily requirement but rather a nice bonus when it happens, and not disappointing when it doesn’t.

My wife is like that, she just logs in when she feels like it and explores the game a little, sometimes she notices she has 3 or 4 daily choices done and picks something to complete it, but most of the time she doesn’t even pay attention to it. I like the extra bit of gold from selling unidentified dyes, but don’t worry about it if I don’t get it every day.

The thing you need to remember is, the average player doesn’t come here. My wife is the average player and she’s never read a single post here. She doesn’t care about these forums, or about anything the people here argue about. You don’t speak for them. You don’t understand them. And you don’t have very much in common with them.

Yeah this is pretty much my attitude. I just go where my nose takes me, sort of adventuring around Tyria, and sometimes I get a daily and it’s a nice reward, but I don’t even think about them. I might think about them in the future, I mean I can see a possible time when I might be more concerned with achivement in this game, but at the moment I’m happy just logging in, wandering about, killing some things, doing a bit of crafting, and logging out. As a level 80 I have the whole of Tyria to wander around in, and that makes the content seem vast to me.

At the end of the day, the game is just an hour or so of relaxing escapism now and then.

CoH was a wonder in its day, for character creation diversity (Champions Online is pretty good too, and still going), but those are superhero character creations, they’re supposed to be incredibly varied. If one wanted “realistic” character creation, it would probably be too boring unless the whole game was oriented around a more sim-like mediaeval fantasy experience.

Personally, I’m all for the thing of warrior women looking sexy. It’s unrealistic, but it’s fun.

Also, when has looking good never been a concern even for warriors? A moment’s thought would suggest that long hair in battle is a very, very bad idea, but many warrior cultures have treasured their locks. It just looks cool when you’re swinging that axe.

I’ve been enjoying the living story stuff, but I only interact with it in the course of my travels. I don’t have much of a completionist attitude about it. I figure there are going to be plenty more in the future, and at some point I might follow one all the way through, but at the moment, it’s mainly just something that’s keeping the world a bit fresh each time I come back and play. Which is good.

Seems to me that the build system is such that you are generally advised to max out 3 stats, 30/20/20. That’s the way the stats on armor and weapons work, etc.

There are also 5 possible types of build orientations in each class, one of which is always Tanky, one of which is always Supporty, three of which are DPSey (depending on where you put your 30).

The result is a game in which anyone can deal respectable damage, while some can deal more-than-respectable. A game in which anyone can support a bit, but some can support a bit better. A game in which anyone can tank a bit, but some can tank better.

What’s not to like?