Guild Wars 2

titanlectro.5029:

EnRohbi.2187:

Okay,
I’m sorry to burst your bubble here,
But I think tier 8 needs a reality check.

The servers in tier 8 probably comprise something like 1-5% of the game’s total wvw population.

WvW is not, and never will be, balanced for tier 8.

You might be right about the T8 reality check (although personally I would not belittle their problems), but this is not just a T8 problem. It will definitely a T7 problem, and I’ve heard T6 say the same thing.

So we are talking about 9+ servers. Anet would not ban night capping, to show equal concern for the minority. I hope they show the same type of concern for the lower tiers.

An easy solution would be to base swords on percentage of active players. Swords would then scale for time of day, and server tier, automatically.

Example: Orange Swords are active if both conditions are true
1) > 20% of active players attacking
2) > 5 players attacking

i like this a lot too.

just having a flat threshold simply isnt adequate for each server. any form of scaling so that people know where the major forces on the map are is completely necessary. and if youre in the major force you need to be careful about what you attack if you dont want to alert the enemies.

and to those arguing that anet should basically just shut down the lower tiers because their population is too small:
thank you for your bumps. anet can even out wvw populations across all servers by tracking man hours spent in wvw and incentivizing transfers into servers with smaller amounts of time put in. the rankings will then become a measure of skill instead of population, and suddenly the higher tiers will ACTUALLY have some kitten to lord over low tier fodder. until then (or until anet merges servers without looking for real solutions), please refrain from coming in here to say “haha t8 should transfer out”.

already tier 8 wvw is suffering from abandonment, boredom, and loss of morale due to the 300 point gap in rating trapping SF in tier 8 for far too long. thats already been discussed, noticed by at least the CCs, and sent away.

it is entirely possible (and highly likely) for our battles to be composed of no more than 20 people per server on a map for hours on end. when forces are this small, the current setting of 5 people creating an orange x is perfectly fine. major forces ARE composed of groups of 5+. if the threshold is raised to 25, we could fight an entire match without ever proccing orange swords. that just isnt right. when we have 5 or less people in a map, i know immediately where i am needed most and whether i should bother trying to save a supply camp or if a more valuable objective can probably be defended solo or not (because i cant exactly expect adequate help).

i see that its a good change for very populated servers, where a 5-15 man group CAN be considered a small group because you have 50+ people in all maps quite often. i understand that the current threshold is an annoyance rather than useful information in more populated servers. however, this will never be the case in at least tier 8 with the current system (i expect the same for tier 7 and probably 6).

thus i propose to anet:

scale the threshold for creating orange swords off of weekly man hours put into wvw by the servers in the match. total wvw man hours for a server is already a stat you guys need to be using to scale transfer fees. the current system is irrelevant to a servers performance in wvw, and wvw is the only reason to pick a server to transfer to. you will solve an issue for overmanned servers and create an issue for undermanned servers by flatly changing the threshold, driving more and more population away from too many of your servers.

sorry to hear it moobs

Risingashes.8694:

WvW

—Make siege weapons account bound

theyve said this is not a quick fix, because the cancel build button breaks when they make it account bound

wyther.8372:

FC: We are too busy bickering with each other. Certain commanders/guilds dont get along and I’ve been a part of that to some extent. Some times we click just right; other times there is just too much fighting. THat holds us back tremendously.

fixed that for you

but then thats something i would say, i dunno why you said it for me
:(

Risingashes.8694:

Cuchullain.3104:

5. Ability to quickly toggle between auto target on and auto target off so that you can use auto target to quickly attack targets but shut it off to quickly escape.

Not entirely sure what this means.

add a bindable hotkey option to toggle autotargeting because esc > options > click a check box is anything but fast

id actually like the same for smartcasting (fast-cast ground target they call it), it makes grenades so much easier to use but there are just times when i need to know where the edge of my range is (or the wvw jump puzzle dark room) so i leave it off because its so annoying to toggle it.

only 40k? lol

191k 66k 50k

check on the mos site to see how many winning servers are predicted to not be winning next week too

…

pretty sure itll still be 0

Detharos.3157:

5) Have fun. WvW shouldn’t feel like a job. Even the most hardcore players need breaks sometimes, so we should all cut the commanders/major guilds some slack when they take some time off from WvW.

this is the single most important point, and the reason i tend not to turn on my commander tag. the majority of the time, it becomes unfun because i just dont like the stress and expectations.

track man hours put into wvw for each server

make transfer fees to servers with over average man hours totally obnoxious
make transfer fees to servers with under average man hours low / nonexistent (or “pay” people to transfer in)

put in a feedback cycle for low fee servers – have it act similar to gems<→gold where transfer fees spike (but more drastically) when lots of people transfer in in short periods of time (prevents supermassive transfers, set the bar high enough for reasonably large guilds so they dont have issues).

if rewarding players for transferring to undermanned servers:
track hours they spend in wvw and hours spent playing. if you have a certain % spent in wvw after 2-3 weeks, give the reward. dont tell people what your quota is so they dont try to abuse cheap/free transfers to unbalance servers.

once average man hours in wvw per server levels out, make transfer fees less obnoxious, but keep the price spike system in place to prevent regression to the current problematic state.

Takerukun.8924:

1) Free thread bump. Much the same reason I waited to respond to you on purpose.
2) Educating the uneducated is fun.
3) Trolls are good bedtime snacks.

yeah but with the whole quoting multiple posts… hes just a speed bump

Bedstain.6735:

If your server complains like that you all won’t last long in other tiers. t1 is horribly outmanned but you don’t see us in here every week with the same stuff. I think Anet gets it. Stop whining. If its that bad get your money up and transfer.

who said anything about other tiers?
that guy isnt on SF
and he wants SF gone, just like everyone else in t8
but SF isnt gone yet, and wont be, because the ratings broke

people keep coming into this thread and thinking were whining about losing. and it just isnt the case. weve taken our losses, and have shown we can stand through them. but we dont want to fight a broken system.

if t8 were … say… t4, SF would have moved to t3 within 3 weeks after a fair fight and 2 solid wins. because there isnt a giant gap in the ratings between t3 and t4.

stop entering this thread and posting that were whining about losing.

if he had actually read the thread, he would realize the issue isnt population, its that theres a nearly 300 point gap in the ratings… i dont even know why youre responding to his post ><

grenades + elixir r

im lvl 26, 25 ar (just got 30), mostly glass, squishy as hell, but with a tanky/support guardian around runs are really smooth

FilthyRat.4652:

insanemaniac.2456:

page 3 halp halp halp

ive seen people submit false reports to mos.. like sf ticking for 695 during prime time when they had no more than like 350. why cant i remember the projection for that.

And look at your teammate that made post right before you about changing SF score so pretty sure it wasn’t one of us.

it was a couple days ago, before that post

page 3 halp halp halp

ive seen people submit false reports to mos.. like sf ticking for 695 during prime time when they had no more than like 350. why cant i remember the projection for that.

to the [PK] commander who spotted us building trebs:

thank you for sending a team to cap all the camps and cut off sm supply. i nearly squee’d. but we were a little too short on our own personnel and we unfortunately allowed a ballista to be built.

but we did wipe a small zerg trying to scale the tower.

Ungood.3054:

Manoa.5897:

Ungood.3054:

Manoa.5897:

Congratulations for being the quickest out of the gate. We shall enjoy taking it from ya.

I have no doubt that you will…

once we go to sleep. :-p

When you go to sleep? Why wait that long? :p

Don’t flatter yourself, FC the one holding most of our lands, not you.

But then again, we already knew they were good (if a bit vicious) fighters.

a compliment? in one of these threads? banhammer pls. so not allowed.

itll diminish more, prolly down to -5 – 5 in the coming weeks

Twinny.9304:

Takerukun.8924:

You’re from NSP, are you not? You currently reside in the most even, nail-biting, fight to the bitter end tier to exist in WvW. That’s even looking at EU as well. Would you find WvW a fun place to be if you suddenly had to relive your matchup with Kain from 4 weeks ago? To trade the uncertainty of your current match for a roflstomp that’s decided before the reset even happens? To relive the match for months on end, only changing one faceless Kain server for another every week?

No im from EU FSP (Far Shiverpeaks) currently T5 rank 15/27 so around mid table, my point is as many ppl on my server has said before we dont mind if we lose no matter how badly as long as we have fun and and lose to the better server not some server that we clearly better than and then they cap and upgrade everything while our server sleeps. with a season/league u would not always meet the superior servers, u would meet everyone and more to the point an equal amount of times, and we get variety and it would be nice to play against the top and bottom tiers same. Anyway never mind me i probably posted my views in wrong thread as per usual lol, and just so u know i didnt even know what or who Kain were^^ until i just checked when i seen u mention them a few times lol.

replace kain with whatever server RUIN jumped to… BT, Deso, i dont really remember.. and replace jade quarry with vizunah

its all the same

EU’s bottom tier is as screwed as NA’s, they just havent posted threads here complaining/discussing the problems

so no, you arent really in the wrong thread if you care at all.

yeah, i really should be ignoring him.

you are arguing that there shouldnt be obnoxious transfer fees to overly populated wvw servers because people dont use guesting

and youre saying you arent a troll?

/head scratch

FilthyRat.4652:

First off never seen anyone guest in the game yet.
Right now it’s based on server population as a whole so to change it to give the bottom tier servers a handicap would be unfair to many people.

not seeing does not equate to not happening.
ask anyone you see if theyve guested.

if they havent yet, they dont even know its there. because its too useful for (at LEAST) orr temples.

FilthyRat.4652:

I was talking about players wanting to switch server but either way…I feel those solutions would just cause more problems for Anet than they already have on their hands. I agree there is a problem with the whole ranking system and something needs to be done.

I have been on servers and taken a far worst beating that you guys week after week where we were luck if we even took a tower for 20mins mins before a zerg would show up and smash the one or two people that tried to defend the tower. (;) GoM before they worked hard formed a server alliance and pulled themselves out of the mud).
It has been a problem for a long time and they need to fix it along with a lot of other game mechanics….like more options for commanders and being able to ride dolyaks.

kain did that to us. we could rush 2 towers w/ breakouts because their zerg would leave the map defenseless, but as soon as anything turned blue they responded within 5 minutes. we would be halfway through taking garrison and theyd show up and wed throw our arms up in frustration collectively. at any time of day.

since you cant do this to us, it just means sf isnt at least a t2 server.

Takerukun.8924:

The only real viable solution for the long term survival of this game (in WvW at least) is balancing the populations across all 24 servers. You’ll still see servers who are just plain out better than others, and some that are still going to be crushed. But that would be from player skill, not population. People don’t usually complain when that happens – they strive to improve themselves.

to actually do something like this… anet would need to introduce obnoxiously expensive transfer tickets to go to any server with even a few more man hours put into wvw. 2000 gems doesnt cut it, and the current number is based off of the wrong statistic (total population, with very large brackets for different price points). they could do something more like 20k gems, or 10x current prices, for any server with higher than average man hours put into wvw. and reduce prices to (or even incentivize) transfer to undermanned servers. and they could make transfers act something like the gem/gold exchange where massive spikes in plain old transfers (and not man hour averages) drastically and quickly change a servers transfer price, to prevent abuse.

i think the servers would even out wvw population-wise fairly quickly.

titanlectro.5029:

1) Your argument is essentially that it couldn’t get any worse. Of course, that argument only applies to T8, whereas most of the other servers are much more balanced. But even in T8, it can get worse.

There are blowouts like you have been living with, and there are blowouts where you are spawn-camped on every map all the time. Perhaps you remember those? I do; there were entire weeks where we only got 10k points. They are worse than what happens to you right now, by far. It can most definitely get worse, and that is what will happen >50% of the time for ET and FC, the rest of the time you will only be destroyed like you are currently. Do you honestly think that will improve moral as you seek to prove yourself?

i was there for those bad blowouts. they were the work of an obviously t1-t3 server. the current blowouts are the work of a t5-t8 server, and the difference is smaller, but still very distinguishable. but i include t8 in there because we do not know how other servers will fare in t8 (having not played them for months, if ever), and we will not know because the system is broken.

a blowout is a blowout, and SF does not belong in t8 until we know for sure again that they cant stand on their own in at least t7. but we dont know. and we wont.

sorrows furnace has a fair amount of south american presence

move there so maybe they can stomp us a little harder and get a couple more points each week to escape the trap!

and dont take me too seriously

theres more stuff to kill in higher levels… so while the drop rates dont increase, you have more chances at getting something cuz you have more things to kill

ive been seeing exotics drop fairly commonly (usually 1/run for the whole party) from fractal end chests at 20-26, while maybe 1 exotic / 5-10 runs for the whole party seems like the rate at < level 10

they decided against updating the ratings math when they cancelled the reset

Besetment.9187:

Tier 8 has become a glicko blackhole. The constant barrage of “lets bandwagon onto a t8 server to rise through the ranks” pet projects over the free transfer period has resulted in an absolutely enormous ratings difference between 1st and 2nd place in tier 8 so that not even light can escape this tier. FC and ET are probably two of the most stable WvW servers in the game, since they have endured months of totally asymmetric off peak timezone stacked beatdowns that would ordinarily send anyone with even a notion of hitching their guild to the bandwagon screaming to the hills.

this problem is nothing new… DR and Kain were both rated about 600-700 points before they got their transfers, and the next server up hovered around 1000. it’s just back then … well i dunno, but the system’s been screwy for a long time, DR and Kain just accepted it cuz they knew they were completely abandoned from the start. FC and ET are just tired of it because we’re pretty sure we can get a better match from another server, but the rating places we inherited are so messed up we’ll probably never get the chance without intervention.

FilthyRat.4652:

Lol…love it when you guys need like 35 people just to take me down…when I don’t even have any armor equipped

awww did someone accidentally step into the path of a jump puzzle train and get a boo boo

Ungood.3054:

SniffyCube.6107:

Just trying to keep the discussion going…It’s important that we try to find a solution, even if it seems like we’re being ignored atm… or are being ignored… can’t really tell

Pause and Ponder this,

They are using a very well developed and top notch system that is designed to build a individual profile for unique user and place them an ideal tier of skill to guess the outcome of several massive pugs.

If that does not scare you, it has not sunk in yet.

collectively, a server acts as a unique individual. youre missing the forest for the trees and assuming the rating applies at all to any of the trees. and you need to replace “skill” with “population” instead of even thinking a servers rating has anything whatsoever to do with “skill” from the massive population imbalances that have run rampant. so dont be scared, because the rating system is applicable. we just need more than 24 competitors (not happening), or for manual adjustments to take place when issues like 200 point rating gaps crop up.

just sayin..

kit refinement doesnt work in the air. you can jump to save your proc or not explode. so you dont hafta sound like an old car.

SniffyCube.6107:

I think most of us wanted something more… maybe a “we’re looking into it” what this change told me was that they’ve read this post and believe it’s only in my opinion, and maybe only affects t8… I’m probably just paranoid though at this point.

the op is yours, you can always add in an edit or 2 to say things like this also is a t1/t2 issue

Detharos.3157:

Ferguson’s Crossing; White and Nerdy
Team Al

my theme song from physics lab

boy was that wish for some red love a disappointment…

Labarge.1439:

ParaldaWind.4523:

Honestly, though… who else would T8 play? Have you guys not considered that you might be stomped by any T7 server that drops down?

I know Maguuma dropping down only one tier, from T4 to T5 caused two weeks of insane roflstomping. The same happens when FA drops into T3…

There is a world of difference between tiers, and I don’t think a ratings reset would change anything for ET or FC.

The problems are two-fold:

1. ET and FC do not have an appropriately matched third opponent, and more importantly:

2. ET/FC’s low ratings cause an excessive dragging effect on SF (or any other server eventually in SF’s current situation) which makes it very difficult for overqualified servers to get out of T8 when they are forced to fill that open slot.

The 2nd problem is the one that I think can be more easily dealt with, as it is caused primarily by how ratings are calculated. Problem #1 is not a simple fix, as you correctly point out. However, not being simple doesn’t invalidate it as a problem, and at the very least something could be done to help alleviate problem #2.

to add to this: problem 1 is something we may never know because of problem 2. maybe hod IS qualified. maybe they arent. but we dont even get a chance to find out in a reasonable length of time, mostly because sf’s pvers/fairweathers didnt show up until week 2 of their stay in t8… AFTER they lost the first week and had their rating tanked.

try a grenadier

if you and your keyboard can tolerate the 442211111111111221111111111111221111…

really good range and damage, and supporting weapons have great utility/control (rifle, toolkit)

dont bother w/ grenade kit till its got the trait though, level up other ways (turrets are nice and easy in pve).

10648
not so good for a grenadier who plays all the time, but fc and our opponents are low population and 15 people is a zerg here in the boondocks

silverfire.2547:

insanemaniac.2456:

skeleton crew? you outnumbered us about 40 v 20-30. for hours.

Yes. Skeleton crew. When the main force migrated over to FC BL, that was an influx of another 30-40 more and that’s when things started to get coordinated. Before that it was just small small forces here and there poking at defenses, nothing else.

scare tactics. /15

silverfire.2547:

Whether that comes from actual in-game combat, demoralization “tactics” from emote usage, or encouraging infighting amongst opposing servers on the forum, anything that serves to maximize the margin by which we win shortens the time we’re here.

to me, personally, these “tactics” make your server look more like a bad guy and dont give me any kind of incentive to just allow you to walk all over us… which is of course the best solution in the absence of an intervention.

silverfire.2547:

insanemaniac.2456:

congrats on taking like 6 hours minimum to get a keep

There may have been a skeleton crew there for hours before we showed up, but when we made the call to push FC BL, we blitzed the entire map in under two hours.

Glad to see others learning the importance of spotters though. I’d have never learned how to play Angry Birds vs Towers correctly if it weren’t for friends spotting for me in voice chat.

skeleton crew? you outnumbered us about 40 v 20-30. for hours.

we only had the manpower to defend. not the manpower to kick you out of the map, as demonstrated by hills outer gates falling at least 3 times with the inners remaining untouched because you couldnt get any siege to stick.

DisplayName.7802:

15 letters minimum

congrats on taking like 6 hours minimum to get a keep

hills was fun. i was spotting the treb and spamming map chat. hopefully some of our new people will understand spotting now.

really anything is preferable to the current…

on ferg i get tossed in an LA overflow during evenings fairly often, but the queue is always like < 2 mins

only 3 other maps have ever had queues/overflows in my memory: fc bl, eb, and southsun cove during its release.

the build:

30/x/x/x/10+x
all variants trait explosives to 30 and take grenadier, most take either burn on crit or bleed on explode, most (if not all) take 10% explosion damage
all variants have at least 10 in tools for kit refinement, many will also take static discharge, and a lot will take speedy kits
some variants will take 10 firearms for rifled barrels or something
some variants will take 10 alchemy for S at 25% or something
some variants may take 10 inventions to be oddballs

weapon choice doesnt really matter, but rifle offers more control
grenade kit is a must, toolkit is likely, and the 3rd utility is choice (maybe R, B, U, S, bombs, ram, or rifle turret)
heal is choice, but probably med kit
elite is almost always supply crate

i only speak for myself but..

ill continue to not really bother entering et bl. too much to do in our own and in eb.

except maybe an occasional jump puzzle.

Detharos.3157:

because we’re more hardcore about WvW than many others in higher tiers even are.

what tier allows you the opportunity to fight over a keep 2v3 because there are literally no other players? t1? lol. t2? lol. …t7? just maybe. t8? yes.

have fun trying to duo a keep lord just to say you have when you get swarmed by 1 team or another with your lofty server ratings.

and dathaul, now i know why i dont see you much, youve become a forum warrior from these stupid matches

maybe ill see you, ive been dungeoning a lot because of the stale match and trying to sleep during your prime time since im NA… like now i should have been asleep already ><

im sure i dont speak for only myself when i say glad to have you around

oZii.2864:

but hey I’ll just go pretend to a surgeon after reading a surgery book

how have you not done exactly this? youve gone and looked at some numbers and came in here claiming to know something about something. you clearly missed out on the importance of server ratings and instead focused the final point tallies. the 200-300 rating point gap between either the bottom 2 servers and the third server in the match or between t7 and t8 is the issue here, not that some server won by 70k points in the week of ____.

on the subject of DR history and their last matchup in t8… a lot of the fc wvwers at the time allowed them the christmas present of taking over our border for significant amounts of time just so they could move out of tier 8 that week. we held it before that and had enough people who cared around making sure we held that map, but we only had enough to ensure 1 maps worth of dominance… while kaineng was slowly demoralized with major focus on them from dr. we definitely could have trapped dr in t8 for much longer (or at least another match) because of the silly rating system, but we had no chance of actually winning against their much greater population. quite similar to the current match with sf.

as for kains history… well they just got so many more transfers that even holding our own borders was impossible. and even sitting at 600+ ppt wasnt enough to get them out of the matchup in a timely manner.

if you look at the mos matchups, the bottom european tier is in the same situation.