Guild Wars 2

i would add in a rating cap and floor

then i would soft reset the ratings — preserving pairings but allowing for upwards and downwards mobility to servers stuck stomping or being stomped for months.

then i would code a bit of infrastructure to automate a soft reset any time a 200+ point rating gap appeared

then i would base transfer fees off of average man hours spent in wvw. make it obnoxious (20k+ gems) to move to any server with higher man hours than average. incentivize transfers into undermanned servers.

suddenly i fixed the t8 qq, the skill lag qq, the q time qq, AND made glicko measure skill instead of population. kittening genius.

Jeknar.6184:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Dear-ET-and-FC-also-you-NSP-and-GoM-guys/first#post1651038

i got the next one

f5 f5 f5 f5 f5 f5 f5 f5 f5

Monsoon.2589:

insanemaniac.2456:

move out of the stacked servers

This is like telling someone at DisneyWorld that to combat queues for rides you should stay home and watch a movie on tv…instead of trying to solve the reason for the queues in the first place ie adding more rides or limiting the number of people in the park etc…

Telling people to move from where they WANT to be is not a proper solution nor option. The issue is not the fault of the player hence it should not be the responsibility of the player.

My 2 cents

what the kitten

no it isnt

its like telling someone to go to the waterpark instead of disneyworld because there are no lines at the waterpark

Ungood.3054:

Because points can be gained and lost, so one world losing 100 points does not equal another gaining 100 points, equally so, one world gaining 20 points does not require another world to lose 20 points, what would most likely happen is we would hit around 800 point worlds within two or three weeks, and then slowly start to build up. That is assuming there aren’t any massive jumps in players on any server.

glicko is very close to zero sum and flip flops between small inflations and deflations

what the servers cant handle is 70% of the entire population squeezing into 6 servers

blame anet for that, blame the players, who cares. 50v50 is something that shouldnt exist with the population levels the game has.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Spurnshadow.3678:

I’m sure there are probably a million posts on this topic…

So why did you continue?

sigh i knew i shouldve posted in all caps

I Monk For L O V E.7528:

Kay.5416:

Also must show single screenshot from EB… Unexpected dance party. : D

I’m the little asuran in the corner Was having some fun on my new thief. I thank all of ET and FC for the fun they gave it the past two nights

i think you were the guy i got to follow me in et bl
i was gonna treb bay wall down for you guys but you had to get in faster and then take my tower

move out of the stacked servers

i apologize, the 1 liner was just too tempting cuz that guy never reads when i actually post in response to him

MikeFerguson.8921:

Thanks for the cookies moobs!

Pmetheus.5397:

insanemaniac.2456:

Ungood.3054:

Pmetheus.5397:

JQ WvW commander here from one of our biggest WvW guilds. Not to bust your bubble or anything, but if T8 faced T1 with our coverage at this time, you wouldnt last a day. I’m not trying to sound rude or pretentious. Its just our WvW coverage is massive in all three servers (minus SoR) and you will see practically no downtime around the clock. Being constantly hit in WvW will and does deteriorate a server and kills morale of guilds. People have probably heard of our stacked servers constantly fighting each other. Its true, and if you have any gaps in your coverage, we will take advantage of it to every extent possible. T1 is only a place to be in if you really like constant competitive WvW, non stop. For our servers to survive up there, we’re constantly in WvW.. You get no breaks up there. For those of you who enjoy WvW as is in other tiers, please stay there for your own sanity. kitten gets crazy. Just enjoy your server, tier, and most importanly, the game.

Have a good day and stay frosty.

This was refreshing. I see now the disparity between 1st place T1 and the people who are wining on T8.

You are confident, you are secure, you’re not ashamed of the power you put on the table, you lay it out clear, you have the numbers, and the coverage, and take great pride in that and you are sincere and respectful about it.

I am in awe, but I see why you are are indeed 1st place, when I see the words of the commanders like this. I have a new respect for you, and for JQ as a whole after reading this. This is truly what winning with grace is all about.

If the game got reset, and we were pit against each other as the numbers sorted out, I can say I would be a privileged to lose to you and yours, and hold no illusion we would have a chance

well at least he realizes hes only in tier 1 because they stacked the servers.

Having stacked servers is definitely one aspect of it, I’m not going to deny that. But having a very active WvW community on top of this and being competitive while enjoying what we do is also a huge factor

i think you are misinterpreting “wanting to call yourselves winners” as “being competitive”.

but hey, no problem with wanting to be a winner. and in this system, everyone CAN be a winner. its quite carebear.

Jeknar.6184:

You can +1 his second post…

but its not funny ;(

GuardianOMS.8067:

Because he made it a question instead of a regular post.

Still lovin’ the name/post combo, keep rockin’.

thanks

1. whatever.

2. you need to complete the 3rd fractal in odd level runs or the 4th fractal in even level runs.

3. yes.

4. run level 10 fractals 10 times. get a ring with pristines if you werent lucky. buy a versatile simple infusion at the golem vendor in the lobby.
OR
get 30 laurels, buy an amulet. get 35, buy a ring.

5. yes. from the daily chest at the end of jade maw, not the fractal end chests that appear when the boss dies. personal rank.

EnRohbi.2187:

Narcissus.1058:

EnRohbi.2187:

Narcissus.1058:

I just have one comment. If you are from a higher tier coming in here to tell us to quit whining, get out now. No one wants you in this thread. This is for ppl from t8 and ppl who realize that this is a problem.

Erm,
You seem to have difficulty with the concept of a public forum.

High tier players telling us to suck it up and move servers/fight harder have difficulty with the concept of server pride/being outnumbered 23/7

If server pride is more important to you than your WvW gaming experience, then you have made a personal choice. And sometimes personal choices come with consequences. You don’t get to just have everything you want.

And you’re talking like many servers in this game haven’t gone through losing streaks/being heavily outnumbered for weeks or months.
But the people with REAL server pride sucked it up and kept playing instead of spamming the forums all day.

yeah um all those people were fighting population imbalances, not the rating system itself

Ungood.3054:

Pmetheus.5397:

JQ WvW commander here from one of our biggest WvW guilds. Not to bust your bubble or anything, but if T8 faced T1 with our coverage at this time, you wouldnt last a day. I’m not trying to sound rude or pretentious. Its just our WvW coverage is massive in all three servers (minus SoR) and you will see practically no downtime around the clock. Being constantly hit in WvW will and does deteriorate a server and kills morale of guilds. People have probably heard of our stacked servers constantly fighting each other. Its true, and if you have any gaps in your coverage, we will take advantage of it to every extent possible. T1 is only a place to be in if you really like constant competitive WvW, non stop. For our servers to survive up there, we’re constantly in WvW.. You get no breaks up there. For those of you who enjoy WvW as is in other tiers, please stay there for your own sanity. kitten gets crazy. Just enjoy your server, tier, and most importanly, the game.

Have a good day and stay frosty.

This was refreshing. I see now the disparity between 1st place T1 and the people who are wining on T8.

You are confident, you are secure, you’re not ashamed of the power you put on the table, you lay it out clear, you have the numbers, and the coverage, and take great pride in that and you are sincere and respectful about it.

I am in awe, but I see why you are are indeed 1st place, when I see the words of the commanders like this. I have a new respect for you, and for JQ as a whole after reading this. This is truly what winning with grace is all about.

If the game got reset, and we were pit against each other as the numbers sorted out, I can say I would be a privileged to lose to you and yours, and hold no illusion we would have a chance

well at least he realizes hes only in tier 1 because they stacked the servers.

Junkpile.7439:

What is problem? If enemy have more players you get more loot.

except when its 5 v zerg, then 25 zerglings get 1-3 loot bags and 5 run or die, and get 0 loot bags

Dobri.9804:

Let’s face it, it will be hard for SF to go up the ratings if the same system persists. However, I didn’t see any decent proposals for improving the system. It is not the system’s fault that server transfers left FC and ET so underpopulated. In my eyes, it is working as intended. Besides, if you wish to blame someone maybe SF are to blame for dropping into T8 in the first place.

Maybe if the population of ET and FC continues to decline, the 2 servers may be merged to make a more cohesive force to fight SF and thus fix the Glicko situation.

how would this fix it

first, as pointed out, merge 4 servers to preserve match pairing symmetry
second, what do you do about rating? where do you place the new server? how do you place it without messing up the balance much? what do you do to ensure you dont just have a repeat of the current t8 rating gap in a few months?
third, if you havent seen decent rework proposals then you seriously havent read much on the subject
fourth, it is partially the system’s fault. when free transfers were in effect, there was no incentive to not be losing, creating a snowball effect of depopulation, eventually resulting in servers that got stomped so hard and so often that their ratings were too spread out for the rating system to handle, and since rating is nearly zero sum, now its practically impossible to overcome the gap.

the only change weve had in the system – paid transfers – is arguably bad. anet added a minor disincentive to transferring and didnt base it off of wvw. sure, it coagulates populations some. but all it does is kitten off the people who arent happy where they are a little more than free transfers did. and its just a stopgap measure where an intensive overhaul is needed. so id argue paid transfers is bad: it sets a bad example, its lazy design, and its only half relevant to the problem its trying to solve.

moobs <3, caring about us while still away

Habib Loew.6239:

Aww moobs thank you, you shouldn’t have!

Ilesyt.7084:

All those people complaining about t8 are really pathetic, why don’t you take a look at your t9 companions from EU ? You won’t hear them complain as much as you, Hell try to even find some posts complaining about it. During all this time in t9 there were only about 2-3 matchups that came close to fair.
Ever since the start you guys got in last tier all I’ve seen is complain, complain and more complain…

Either you take it as real men and shut up or move the fark out of there.
And don’t tell me I don’t know how you feel because I’ve been there, I’ve been in t9 EU longer than you’ve been in t8 NA.

were trying to help you too. and all you have to say is stfu? both NA and EU have the same problem, you guys just dont care.

modifications to the ratings would help everyone get into more sustainable matchups that are fun to play. a soft reset + cap/floor could effectively shorten expected lengths of time in which 2 servers are being stomped by another without hope of any change. this is not only a t8 NA issue. t9 EU and t1 NA are also suffering from tier isolation from the rest of the pairings, and the situation is only gonna get worse over the next few months as any given server has to stomp (or get stomped) harder and harder to change places due to the ratings spreading out too far. a ~1600 point spread between the top server and the bottom is more than the system can handle with only 24/27 competitors and no artificial limits on the spreading and the problems will get worse as it increases to 1700, 1800, or 1900.

you want this as much as we do, whether you realize it or not.

Jeknar.6184:

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Please the t8 feedback contained to this linked thread

Let’s not spam up the WvW forums for the other servers/players. More posts does not mean the devs will notice this anymore than they have lately (e.g. zero devs watching x 1000 posts is still zero devs watching).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Tier-8-Points-Extremely-Scewed

T8 will take over the forums… And we’re taking HoD aswell… “Sorrow’s Terrace of Denravi’s Crossing” is in motion…

all hail std crossing

kuora.5402:

Hematuria.4051:

Xaaz.8472:

Who cares. Enough with the T8 crap. You want more competitive PvP move the kitten out already and stop with the kitten threads.

Sorry if I made you butthole sore. I’m new to the game and this wvw isn’t as fun as a competative matchup would be. Your response probably falls into the bullkitten category you are so vocally against.

T8 isn’t competitive.

like hell it isnt. but were smart enough to realize the only thing you get by moving to higher tiers is more whiny people, more tryhards, and more culling.

we fight on a more personal level and actually know who were fighting against, and see them many times on the battlefield… and thats nothing if not competitive. good luck finding that kind of competition in t1.

id love to have a real duel of commanders, where each gets their little zerg of about the same size and whoever can turn the map more their color after a couple hours wins it… we have that opportunity, just not sure i actually care enough to try to organize it with another commander on et/sf, or that id want to exclude the randoms that jump in in the middle. id rather just play.

any plans to improve the glicko rating system?

it has some pretty looming issues with ratings gaps and tier isolation. the wvw devs are mum, as if they dont think there are real issues.

FilthyRat.4652:

insanemaniac.2456:

katz.8376:

FilthyRat.4652:

Wow…you guys outnumber FC by a longshot, … you guys have a ton more people than them…..FACT

LOL?

somewhere about 2 weeks ago he really changed his attitude and totally roots for fc now

i think im gonna start +1’ing his posts cuz its really funny

Lol…have made a few friends on FC and thought most the people I didn’t get along with left, guess I was wrong.

i dont mean to diss you

you have gone from complete forum troll to a laugh in every post and i dont know how you did it but i really truly think its funny

EnRohbi.2187:

But there is simply no way to fix tier 8 without breaking other tiers.

2 words: soft reset

katz.8376:

FilthyRat.4652:

Wow…you guys outnumber FC by a longshot, … you guys have a ton more people than them…..FACT

LOL?

somewhere about 2 weeks ago he really changed his attitude and totally roots for fc now

i think im gonna start +1’ing his posts cuz its really funny

Sadistis.4257:

DisplayName.7802:

Personally, I am rooting for FC. I hate ET lol.

Must say i prefer fighting ET i have no bad blood between any of the worlds, but FC never puts together more than 5-10 guys it seems and i can have a good battle with ET. They put up a good fight and i respect them for it.

playin at the wrong time then, i see ~20 of us fairly often, but definitely not during na prime time… and definitely not consistently.

if you see our bl all red, there were prolly 20+ of us together making that happen… we dont have much opportunity to just pvd these days, theres always a few sf (or et) who show up once things start turning red in our bl.

mginkitten02:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Obviously, SF deserved to move down to T8 and fill the void left by a departing Kaineng.

But no server should be stuck in the mire of T8. Every server should have the reasonable opportunity to move up or down. Not be stagnant.

A server who wins for 8-10 weeks straight (especially with dominating wins) should be allowed to move up and test their skill at the next level. Even if Glicko doesn’t agree.

I’d hate it for HoD if they did move down to T8 and faced the same issue SF is now facing. Which would very likely happen to them if they do move down.

Agreed.

I just, not take offense, not sure of the word for it… It ?stings? always having HoD thrown out as sacrificial lamb in these threads, when we don’t deserve to be stuck in t8 any more than SF, or anyone else for that matter, do. I really like SF. The 2 GoM/SF/HoD weeks were some of my favorite WvW weeks.

I personally hope for a more dynamic tier system. Yeah you might get a week where someone way overmatched comes down into your bracket and spanks you, but at least it would be something different, and they’d be gone in a week and you’d get something new each week instead of the same stale matchups over and over and over.

sorry, hod is kind of a scapegoat here. if gom was in your place, or anyone else, wed be saying their name instead. perhaps we should say the t7 red server instead. but its looooooonger

mginkitten02:

Just curious, but why is it, in all of the “woe is t8” threads, it is always stated SF is only in t8 because Kaineng had a big influx?

While it is partially true, it is also ignoring one huge fact. All Kaineng’s moving up did was create a vacant spot in t8. That same week Kaineng moved up the t7 matchup was:

1. GoM 1128.790
2. SF 1034.005
3. HoD 1010.194

So they had about a 24 point cushion on us. But we fought tooth and nail that week precisely to avoid the drop because we saw the blackhole that waited in t8. And what happened? We beat SF, finished second, and managed a 34 point ratings swing, pushing SF down to t8.

Kaineng’s transfers only created the empty space. HoD capitalized on the chance to avoid it, SF didn’t.

So if HoD beat SF and pushed them down, why is it always the claim that SF is so undeserving to be in t8 and it should be HoD stuck in the mire of t8? If SF didn’t want to be there, they should have beaten HoD when they had the chance and a cushion.

Edit: I would like to state, that I don’t agree that they should be permanently in t8, but no one should be imho. I would be really intrigued by the winner moves up, loser moves down methodology. It would at least create more dynamic matchups instead of the same thing every week for months on end.

you were fighting the beaten and broken sf that was a pretty good match for fc and et

2 weeks later they woke up and started beating the kitten out of us for real, about doubling their wvw population… but too late to escape the rating trap

has your wvw population doubled since january? yes? well kitten. no? then you guys would be a better matchup for us than sf…

no cuz then yall wouldnt see all the t8 whining

we need visibility

begin t8 thread takeover

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

sf is just 2 big imo they do the 5 zergs of 120+ people minium on every map and we only have 4 people on the eb and the bls put togheter sf neesd 2 be nerfed ty anet :vvvvv)

+1 most accurate description of the situation i have ever seen yes im totally serious

et just got trolled in the middle of tryin to take fc’s hills

thanks anet

Rogi.8720:

Move your guilds over to SoR and have some fun with us.

move your guilds to t8 and make a noticeable difference whenever youre active instead of just being another 1 in 50

the server winning overall doesnt need breakouts. breakouts are supposed to help the downtrodden. winners arent downtrodden.

Elano.2014:

If you watch closely, those points actually change every few seconds (20 or so). I’m not sure about the mechanics/formula, though.

sentries and yaks give instantaneous small numbers of points on kill

cyranstar.3425:

insanemaniac.2456:

im pretty sure the ledges are there to specifically prevent people from being pulled off the walls, so abusing chain pulls to get around the terrain design constitutes exploiting and should be a bannable offense

Let’s not mention the number of times I’ve seen Siegerazer yank people up and off walls, sending them to fiery pew pew deaths at the mercy of the zerg mob. And he’s not a mesmer….

It’s a skill. Several people using it to continuously pull you doesn’t make it an exploit. That tiny little half ledge wasn’t made to protect you from being pulled over it but to keep you from inadvertantly running off the ledge….it’s nothing more that a decorative toe kick.

good point. that kitten cheats too.

but breakouts need an almost ground-up redesign anyways.

@ruprect

we dont know that

however, evidence suggests itll be a better match:

-sf got a big boom in population after getting trapped, likely imo due to it just being a very high pop server that finally got a somewhat balanced looking match and disgruntled people and new pve recruits trying again finally
-hod complains about having 4 people on at times, a problem we can relate to…
-and, sf stompings are comparable to dr, a server that rose about 3 tiers when they finally escaped t8.. suggesting that anything below dr is probably a better fit for a match in t8 than sf

a lot of the misunderstanding probably stems from people seeing a servers rating and not possibly thinking it could be wrong. fc and et are 600 and by god they belong there and nowhere else until they get transfers. and by god sf beeeeeeeelongs at ~950. for sure.

that isnt true. sf belongs 350 above et and fc. but that is the limit of what glicko can measure with only 3 competitors in the subsystem. we cant tell if hod belongs 400 above fc and et, because they dont fight.

Jeknar.6184:

I woke early today to meet the so called “ET night/morning crew”. What disapointment to see they didn’t show up this night…

we stalled you out it was pretty awesome

D W.5179:

insanemaniac.2456:

glicko doesnt recognize anything. it just takes old data, new data, and spits out the next numbers. population has the largest effect on the data put in.

you see big positive changes when low rating beats high rating. you see little (or negative) changes when high rating beats low rating. the systems goal is to pair similar ratings to fight. weird things happen when you have a small pool of competitors and force pairings without changing the rules some, like rating isolation, which is what is screwing us over now.

idk man, the rating gap / tier isolation / ghetto isnt related to population, its related to changing ratings, which is more or less equivalent to changing population. but a number and its derivative arent normally related in any other way besides being a derivative.

Yes that is absolutely correct, and I’m on the same page as you. I was just pointing out that the following from Ungood was BS:

Go overboard? LOL! You realize the Glicko system, as slow as it is to respond, realizes that your forces so vastly out number us that winning by 160+K points is a sub par showing for you. That should be a wake up call of how out manned we really are.

I guess stating the painfully obvious is well… painful to some. LOL!

oh, yeah i suppose

D W.5179:

EDIT: @Insanemaniac, yes I agree with you, the current scores are mostly a representation of server population, BUT when there is a blowout in a matchup and the team that stomped the other two teams does not get any rating increase, this IS NOT because Glicko recognized a population difference.

glicko doesnt recognize anything. it just takes old data, new data, and spits out the next numbers. population has the largest effect on the data put in.

you see big positive changes when low rating beats high rating. you see little (or negative) changes when high rating beats low rating. the systems goal is to pair similar ratings to fight. weird things happen when you have a small pool of competitors and force pairings without changing the rules some, like rating isolation, which is what is screwing us over now.

idk man, the rating gap / tier isolation / ghetto isnt related to population, its related to changing ratings, which is more or less equivalent to changing population. but a number and its derivative arent normally related in any other way besides being a derivative.

Ungood.3054:

Here is the issue. Free Transfers messed up the system, that means that as Anet sees it the problem is not glicko and it’s not the math. So they can’t “fix” those things, because there is nothing actually wrong with them.

The problem is that thanks to Kain and DR pulling out with massive influxes of people, the numbers in T8 got skewed. This was made very clear on week 1, when SF went to T8 and lost to FC which at the the time was rated at a 600 point world and SF was a 980 point world. The following week, SF won, but both fights by a very tight margin. This means that FC was really around a 975 Point world.

To expound on that: Detharos.3157 explained that SF really had the numbers and power to be a T6 world. Glicko makes it clear that SF is 300 points ahead of FC and ET, Week 1 showed that FC could beat a 980 point world and should be around 972 points. To express that with simple math.

975 (Where FC should be) + 300 (Glicko’s Power Disparity) = 1275, which would put SF Smack dab in the middle of T6, exactly as one of more adept WvWvW scholars would put SF.

SF is however stuck in T8 now because Kain received a 1200 point boon in player power within a very short time frame, this shot down FC and ET’s numbers below where they should have and would have been in a more stable environment and thus generated an artificially low number.

Glicko did what it could and responded to the situation within 4 matches, but by that time the damage had been done, because Glicko as a system it is not designed for an environment where players can that drastically and swiftly alter the power of a world. The fault here however was not with Glicko, but Anet giving the players the ability to screw the system and screw with it, they did, in spades.

In short, this meant that thanks to Free Transfers and people band-wagoning to Kain, a 700 point world was artificially boosted to a 1900 world, and then pit against two 900 point worlds under the false pretense that it was a 700 point world. that is what smashed the T8 rating.

Glicko is not the problem, as a system it works, and does it’s job so well that almost every pvp game out there uses it or a variant of it. The problem was Free Transfers allowing players to screw up the system, and screw it up, they did.

But players screwing with the system is why T8 is a sink hole today.

So with the end of Free Transfers Anet should have reset the system, and it would have corrected itself in short order, a floor would not need to be put in.

Why Anet did not do it, I am not sure, their motive was their own, but because they didn’t, the messed up numbers due to Free Transfers remain, but thanks to the ability of a Glicko system being able to correct itself somewhat, only T8 really took the largest burden, but this is because T8 could not move.

On week 1 when SF came down, we see growth in the numbers at T8 and a sign that the system could begin to correct, but then in week 3 SF got an influx of people and began to smash the system again however, they did not receive enough of a boost to pull out, and instead crated a sink hole they are now stuck in.

The only way for this to be fixed is for Anet to rest the numbers, Or at this point, for SF to back off, let ET and FC gain numbers again and build back up to 900 point worlds where we belong, and allow us the players to correct the system that us the players screwed up in the first place. But I doubt that something likely to happen, because like SF asking ET and FC to back off and just let them pull out fell on deaf ears, I know that asking SF to just hold their numbers, and let ET and FC build up their own, would be pointless as well.

Which is why many of us want another server to come down, which hopefully will be more apt to our power level and with Free Transfers ended, that will give us something to fight that we can fight and gain our numbers back up to where they should be.

the low ratings were already there, there have been 2 ~650 servers for months. the most point leeching from the tier occurred when BP and FC (and perhaps prior to this even) were flip flopping between green t8 and red t7, each one was able to stomp dr and kain harder than the week before and leeched more and more rating out of the tier, because the t7 server wasnt being pushed down, rather the t8 server was bumping up. dr and kain leaving the tier hardly took anything with them in comparison, but kains departure made it impossible for a 2nd dr-like server to be able to get enough rating to jump out of the pit.

its a problem much older than just the kain/dr risings, but they were icing on the cake.

D W.5179:

Ungood.3054:

Linkisdead.9647:

You have lower numbers than SF, this is a fact, there’s no need to go overboard and claim the numbers are vastly in our favor. We’ve lost numbers as well with people transferring out of the tier or staying out of wvw due to boredom.

Go overboard? LOL! You realize the Glicko system, as slow as it is to respond, realizes that your forces so vastly out number us that winning by 160+K points is a sub par showing for you. That should be a wake up call of how out manned we really are.

I guess stating the painfully obvious is well… painful to some. LOL!

The Glicko system has nothing to do with world population. Do you not understand the issue we are seeing with the Glicko system being used in a multi-tier structure?
I understand that you are outnumbered, and I understand that it’s been that way for a couple months, but don’t just make stuff up to support your case.
Anybody feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m almost certain that Glicko doesn’t account for population at all.

at this point, all glicko can reasonably be used to measure is wvw population

skill, its intended measurable, is a non factor because its just white noise compared to the effect of having larger or secondary (or tertiary or quaternary) groups available to fight over objectives…

EnRohbi.2187:

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

EnRohbi.2187:

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

EnRohbi.2187:

If you had a game with bugs and problems in just about every single aspect of the entire thing. What would you fix first? The issues that affect everyone, or the issues that affect like 5% of the playerbase?
No, I do not know for a stated fact that Anet will not prioritize tier 8, but they would be foolish to do so when there are so many other areas of the game that need to be fixed first.

Also,
If anyone in tier 8 actually looked at the ratings lately,
They would see SF gaining 40-50 points this week, and being less than 100 ratings points away from HoD’s score.
The system is balancing itself out, just as it should.

But of course, after a few weeks of HoD steamrolling tier 8, you’ll all be back here complaining about that too.

Do you know what you are typing? First, the system balancing itself out is taking over 3 MONTHS. That is not just as it should unless you know specifically that Anet intended this?

And if it happens to HoD, is your solution for all of them to transfer also? That is not fixing anything and you know it. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I know exactly what I’m typing, that’s why I typed it.
The system is working as intended. The playerbase balance is kittened, sure, but the system is working the way it was designed to work.

Anet intended a scoring system to keep the most evenly matched servers facing against each other. The system itself is not built to have volatile matches, it is built for quite the opposite, to keep servers in place until there’s a power shift.

ET and FC are in a kittenty place. Never denied that. They are two servers that are so far separated in terms of coverage that there is no third server in the game that would be a balanced match against them. And it sucks for them. But unless you expect Anet to start merging servers (Which isn’t gonna happen. At least not to fix a WvW problem.), then it’s about time that tier 8 learns to accept that that is the reality of the game.

Now,
Would you like to have a conversation or would you like to just keep trying to imply I’m trolling you? Because your crying troll is getting a little old for me.

PS: If I were a troll, the fact I’ve kept you going so long would warrant this a complete success.

Again, you state your beliefs as facts and they simply are not. As you admitted in another post you do NOT know what Anet intends or why they planned certain things a certain way.

And telling people they have to transfer to “fix” Anet’s broken system is basically the same as them merging servers. So no go there either.

And you still (how many times do I have to type this) are not answering the questions directed at you. You are still, what was it, “disrupting normal on-topic discussion”.

Please stop responding to me,
You are not contributing to the thread at all, you are just telling me what you think is wrong with my posts.

but we dont actually know if there is a decent third server for us because the only server weve gotten to face since the end of free transfers got trapped with us and cant break free despite unequivocally showing the world they dont belong with us…

why do you still say we dont have a potentially good pairing when you cant know that?

et’s nitecrew stalled out today :O

quick call the presses im not sayin its aliens but

2 questions, 2 answers:

1. why a rating floor/cap?

its a way to artificially condense ratings and make the system act like the competitor population is big enough. if there is an average ~50 point gap between each server, servers can float between matches much quicker and settle into the proper places. if there is an average ~100 point gap between each server, the randomness of the gaps can accidentally produce much larger gaps between specific servers. we currently have a total spread of about 1600 rating with 24 servers, meaning average gap of 66, max gap of around 300. capping ratings at 1100 and 1900 (with original ratings of 1500) will produce a worst case scenario gap of around 150, which is a surmountable obstacle with the current gain/loss math, unlike 300. capping at 900 and 2100 should force a max gap of about 225, still surmountable.

an additional benefit is that rating will not be allowed to be “stolen” from the bottom and “hoarded” at the top, because once servers naturally drift towards the caps, the pretty-close-to-zero-sum ratings changes will not allow for servers to continuously be pummeled into tier 8 or claw their way into tier 1 at the expense of the other tiers’ rating, and servers will have the chance to drop out of tier 1, or drop into tier 8.

2. why a soft reset? when should we do a reset?

prevent large gaps from forming in the middle tiers. we have decent pairings. a soft reset does not break up the pairings. however, resets could be automated to occur any time 200+ point gaps develop, because gaps that large start to screw with the math and hold servers in matches way longer than anyone deserves to bear. place servers at even intervals filling the entire span between the caps. volatility will not be increased any more than it should be.

i see 30-40 sometimes on like reset nights.. and like 5 mins later the [wz] go to _______ call hits map chat and suddenly we lose at least 1/2

Darek.1836:

People on FC don’t go to WvW because they gave up around the mid-Kaineng era, came back during the first 2 weeks of SF, and left once we realized it was the same thing all over again. The reason FC seems dead right now is because people are waiting on the server matchup to change.

also I’m coming back home soon, I hate t5

early:
wb missed you xoxoxo

is all tta coming with ?

King Amadaeus.8619:

Venn.7623:

Ungood.3054:

Venn.7623:

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

How did you get that from what you quoted? No one said that, or even close to it.

All he said was that you out number ET and FC and perhaps out number their combined forces, which I would believe.

If you truly believe they can’t cover all the maps, please go try to take SF’s borderlands without seeing a zerg form up to defend it while you lose your own borderlands.

I am pretty sure, other than SM, BL’s are the most protected thing on most servers….least they have been in my experience. So not really a good indicator on how much coverage we have.

The problem is that you take the 30 participants you have on a karma train, and leave no one at home to mind the store while our 10-15 “go-a-capping”.

what

sf can have 30 people in a karma train + 10-15 people elsewhere in at least 2 other maps for like 2/3rds of the day

fc and et can pick one of those… at best. except on reset night, and maybe thru the weekend.

and youre trying to make it sound like we dont use our people effectively enough…?

Tanryth.1074:

insanemaniac.2456:

oh god im nite crew fml i need to sleep more regularly >.<
or play less…

How do you think I feel I just realized it was almost 4 after a 7 hour defense and recovery of our BL…. you missed all the excitement

visiting parents new house, been missing it all since friday

Handin.4032:

I understand the issue with the bug in the obstacles..but people are saying that the SKILL should be fixed or that it is OP, etc….but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the skill. It has nothing to do with the mesmer pull. It has to do 100% with the obstacles. You’d get the same result with any other pull, or any knockback. So, I think lots of our confusion was why are people ripping on a skill and a profession which has nothing to do with the actual problem?

it very well could be the skill is bugged as well, we dont have any basis for comparison as the only other pulls require los and cant be tested in this situation. you dont get the same results with other pulls because they fail before grabbing. mesmer pull is the only one that doesnt.

guardian is the only comparable pull. it requires los for the particle sent to the victim. does it require los for the pull itself? then, does a guardian pull ever knock you 10 feet in the air if you collide with a small ledge on the way to him? then, the pull doesnt have a knockdown component, is mesmers borked because of the knockdown?

now with regards to the obstacles, i know these are broken because there are certain ones you can walk up to and simply walk over without ever jumping. im pretty sure that isnt intended. and here you come saying who are you to speak for the devs? well i also thought the invuln supply camp spots were pretty stupid and probably not intended, and now that kitten is finally fixed.

Handin.4032:

If there are bugs in the obstacles, than they should be fixed

omg you DO understand the problem!

there are bugs in the obstacles.

RockonHarder.7235:

insanemaniac.2456:

Handin.4032:

That is a very ridiculous statement. You have no idea why the ledges are there, in fact, they’re probably just there for graphics sake, since you know….every castle has walls like that on top…

So to say using chain pulls should be a bannable offense is just laughable, at best….

your assertion is the ridiculous one. the ledges prevent line of sight in precisely the areas you most want to shoot. they serve no other purpose besides stopping pulls, the exact reason its extremely dangerous to jump up on them to get better line of sight.

i dont give a kitten about chain pulls. its when you pull people over an obvious obstruction that you should be reported.

I play a Necro and i can assure you there is not a single ledge or wall that LOS hinders my marks in anyway. Bottom line if you have 30 guys with range on the ground and your on the wall sticking your head is going to get it shot off….

To assume anything other then that is what gets people like the OP to make complaints in the first place.

Now should there be man-holes or defensible positions on the wall? yeah that would make sense. But there isn’t, there are tiny lips. so lets all be realistic and accept the fact that by stepping up to the edge you are doing so at your own risk.

you are not understanding the problem