Guild Wars 2

This has been mentioned for quite a long time. I have never heard anyone not say they do not want this. Why was this not in the game initially?

I agree Cogbyrn, the funnest moments I have had in WvW have nothing to do with drops or gear or whatever its those amazing moments like a 3 hour keep defense. But a little variety would really be awesome, spicing up the maps and such. Doing the same thing everyday in basically the same place and time, that’s work. But this whole discussion though its nice is probably a bit of topic for this thread I apologize for hijacking it initially.

Altie.4571:

to the OP, no you don’t represent the WvW community.

That said, you can’t add more maps and further dilute the playerbase. There are a lot of servers that struggle to cover 1 or 2 maps as it is right now, and adding more would destroy the pvp aspect of WvW.

If they are to change out maps then all 3 server BL would have to go, due to the landscape of the map. And I don’t see them doing that.

WvW is fine. It’s pretty good. Personally I hope they fix a couple of things and then I wouldn’t see anything wrong with it.

One of those things I hope to see out of ANet is a raid grouping. So more than 5 people can get in a group and enjoy the fun.

WvW is not fine, if anything it is slowly dieing due to lack of attention. More maps aren’t needed what is needed is more interesting maps I mean come on one map repeated 3 times, how lazy is that? Throw that on top of playing the same servers again and again, large amount of bugs throw in with every patch (yay the repair merchant is now attacking my keep door), things that have been broken since launch (I can walk up walls and such), and more, it should give any player a concern on its future.

I have been hearing/seeing players who have spent more then 100 hours in WvW saying that they are going to check something else out for a bit. That is a bad sign. If you cant keep the hardcores how do you expect to keep the casuals?

I know Anet is famous for keeping its secrets and only revealing things when they are ‘ready’ but now would be a great time for some ‘this is coming up’ kind of talks.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I hope people realize that Jumping Puzzles being a nice consistent form of Badge income in WvWvW is a sign that something is probably amiss.

As it has from the beginning. Additionally when you get badges lots of the items have very little variety/look ugly it really shows how ‘into’ WvW Anet is.

Jaxon.5392:

In GW1 you couldn’t and didn’t care for gear rewards in PvP, you simply played because it was fun. You either got your guild to a high rank (bragging rights) or an individual high rank (HA/TA/RA), again bragging rights.
But still, given that you simply win or lose in WvW and still end up playing the same teams week after week, something has to happen there to keep us coming back.

I totally agree, and sooner rather then later.

Chris.5024:

If you don’t have the balls to post your character’s name and guild then don’t post at all.

Thank you, I cannot agree more. This goes for every thread involving servers for that matter regardless of the topic.

At this point WvW needs a lot more development to really shine. I know they say they are ‘working on it’, I just hope it is not dead by the time they finish.

As far as badges, if you really need them for whatever do the jumping puzzles. If you suck at jumping, do them when ports are offered. Can get what 30 a day? adds up pretty quick.

What I am seeing/hearing right now is the fair weathers are starting to not log in (as per usual FA) and frankly a lot of people are talking about boredom to which I can relate. I enjoy the challenge but imagine if we have to do this match for the next month or two months, really it is pretty boring. Honestly the same tactics every day, same fights at the same times, on and on kind of make WvW a major grind. This makes me worry about WvW future in general. If anything could kill this game worse then cheating/metagaming it would be staleness and boredom.

And to the ‘person’ building all the siege in hidden spots so that we reach siege cap. We know what your doing, very cute and sportsmanlike, yay metagaming.

@hoschi or other naysayers. Its actually quite easy to promote a 2v1. Here’s what you do. Find one random person with a commander title. Transfer to the enemy server. Put on your commander badge and say zerg to me we are going to do x because of some tactical bs. Done. 2v1. Welcome to metagaming. Its much less difficult to manipulate a zerg then you guys think.

They have not changed their stance and probably will not in any near term future unfortunately. I think most WvW people wish they had similar rule sets as PvP and its a major complaint amongst a lot of people.

@sbr.8170
You could institute all number of buffs depending on different situations. You could have NPC’s help during low populations times. Here’s an idea, lets say two teams are attacking a keep at the same time and out number the defenders in EB. Have those statues in the keep come to life and defend like a champion mob (think giant grub). All kinds of things. To prevent another server escorting yaks for another, just have the yak attack them on site. And so on and so forth, there’s a lot of ideas out there check the suggestions forum.

@Braxxus.2904
Sportsmanship is really flexible with most pvper’s many justify spawn camping as a ‘tactic’ and it does help you win so if you are winning at any cost that does include glitching, hacking, stealing, cheating, metagaming. The issue is if you totally crush your opponents every time, especially by dishonorable means, they will no longer want to play. Then your left playing by yourself which is not fun. Say your playing tennis and its two vs one. How long until the other player says hey this is stupid Im going to play another game, especially if it is that players first time. If that happens your game is dead. Relying on only the most hardcore pvp people will lead to a very empty world.

Also for all my WvW time the best most enjoyable moments, had very little to do with points. Great defenses or attacks etc. even when no points were earned or lost.

Awareness is probably the best protection. Keep your distance from the portal. Reflects are very nice and having 5 superior ballistas firing into the mass doesn’t hurt either. But in all reality if AOE’s are limited to 5 so should portals.

@sceptus.9415

Again missing the point, I am not talking about a server but the game mechanics in general.

Koakuma.7253:

kanikani.2430:

Reiven.2543:

As others have stated in this thread FA is extremely offensive. In our previous matchups this overwhelming brute force tactic worked because we had such huge advantages over our other opponents but this is one of those few matchups where our opponents have extrememly similar numbers and at the moment we are failing to understand that the old overwhelming zombie zerg just does’nt work anymore. If FA is to have any chance we need to look beyond mindless zerging and just capping everything on the field.

TLDR:
We need to start thinking about the consequences and reasons for attacking areas instead of mindless zerg rushing everything if we are to improve as a server.

The heart of the problem there though is that the ‘system’ as it is designed is highly against defending. Meaning there is no reward most times for many hours whatsoever. No gold, no karma, no xp, not even any fun. What happens is that you spend a night chasing after some camps if your lucky which is irritating at best.

This does not even take into account population issues and having the numbers to defend places.

Defense is very important tactically, but for the individual it does nothing, especially when ‘points’ have no real value. I have never heard anyone say hey I want to start up a game tonight and sit in an empty tower for 4 hours watching the guards walk in circles. Lets all ask our friends if they want to buy GW 2 to do this, see how they react to you. Its a game, it should be if nothing else fun, when it becomes work (even more so unrewarded work) people stop playing.

This is an Anet problem not a server one. How would I solve this if I was Anet, add dynamic events to defense like ogres attacking the tower, etc. But I have already posted a thread about adding NPC’s to underpopulated servers.

I see your point, but I also don’t see your point at all.

WvW is a game designed around massive coordination, and dedication to various duties by ALL parties involved. SOMETIMES, yes, this means sitting in a tower and defending it. Maybe it means walking back and forth between camps escorting yaks. It MIGHT even mean that you need to defend camps for an hour or so. If you find yourself on Sentry Duty, as we refer to it, you can always ask to switch off with somebody after a while if you find yourself bored. Generally speaking, somebody will do so.

Defense is as important to the game as offense is, and claiming defending has no value because of lack of points only shows that you have no real understanding of the potential points system, and the big picture as a whole.

I think your misreading, I am talking about the individual and not the server. Defense is very needed and very tactical. I wish all places were defending by 5 competent people all the time.

I agree that switching off would be the solution, you defend for 30 min then I do then the next guy. The problem with that is we just do not have the many competent people on all the maps combined in all reality. There are times of the day where there are less then 10 competent players on the whole server. And a few incompetent players defending a tower/keep/whatever will not hold it.

I would also like to add that commanders at this point in time do not help the problem they in fact tend to make it worse.

So how things are currently going there is a small group of people who are sacrificing their, gold/time/fun/karma/etc., defending things and getting burned out doing such and in all reality are not being notice or appreciated at all for it. And truth be told I doubt this is server specific.

This is what happens in a game when it becomes more about ‘points’ and less about ‘fun’. These kind of win at any cost ‘tactics’ are often what kill pvp games. I talk to a lot of new people in WvW and they ask me about this kind of stuff from time to time and most say it is ‘stupid’ or ‘unfair’ and makes them not want to play. Anything that makes people not want to play a game should not be in a game. I have noticed that PvP players have a high tendency to kill their own fun in the long run.

There are simple things Anet could do to discourage this, but they have done nothing with WvW at this point so it is unlikely it will happen.

Reiven.2543:

As others have stated in this thread FA is extremely offensive. In our previous matchups this overwhelming brute force tactic worked because we had such huge advantages over our other opponents but this is one of those few matchups where our opponents have extrememly similar numbers and at the moment we are failing to understand that the old overwhelming zombie zerg just does’nt work anymore. If FA is to have any chance we need to look beyond mindless zerging and just capping everything on the field.

TLDR:
We need to start thinking about the consequences and reasons for attacking areas instead of mindless zerg rushing everything if we are to improve as a server.

The heart of the problem there though is that the ‘system’ as it is designed is highly against defending. Meaning there is no reward most times for many hours whatsoever. No gold, no karma, no xp, not even any fun. What happens is that you spend a night chasing after some camps if your lucky which is irritating at best.

This does not even take into account population issues and having the numbers to defend places.

Defense is very important tactically, but for the individual it does nothing, especially when ‘points’ have no real value. I have never heard anyone say hey I want to start up a game tonight and sit in an empty tower for 4 hours watching the guards walk in circles. Lets all ask our friends if they want to buy GW 2 to do this, see how they react to you. Its a game, it should be if nothing else fun, when it becomes work (even more so unrewarded work) people stop playing.

This is an Anet problem not a server one. How would I solve this if I was Anet, add dynamic events to defense like ogres attacking the tower, etc. But I have already posted a thread about adding NPC’s to underpopulated servers.

Quenta.2978:

Unfortunately.5940:

I like how TC & YB keep coming up with new ways to justify focussing FA. But it’s all good, farming your zergs last week got me more badges than any other matchup so far

You sir, no nothing about badge farming.

Let this guide enlighten you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi_7YYs1tz4

If they would have added one superior arrowcart and one superior ballista it would have been perfect. But yeah have seen that a lot of times.

Mouse.4782:

Xirin.8593:

cold.3946:

It’s supposed to work this way. The goal of the Glicko rating system is to find matchups that are as even as possible.

This. I don’t think people understand the point of the rating system.

Yes, it is impossible to keep everyone happy, lol.
From “This isn’t fun, one server is dominating the matchups in all tiers. The system is broken” to
“We’re stuck in various tiers now. This system is too fair. We need to break it!”

Oh, and the 2 week matchups haven’t even begun yet. I wonder what the reactions will be then…

The system isn’t to fair, the problem is the system is basically a display of the different population imbalances across servers. Population = win.

Try to think of this months into the future or years even. Populations will most likely not shift. So what will happen is you will basically be fighting the same 3-4 opponents for the rest of time. And yeah that is pretty boring in my mind for everybody.

I have played this game from the beginning and I think at first commanders were really useful to help gather people and teach different tactics.

Now, however I have been sitting back and just watching how things unfold and I would have to say more often then not commanders cause more harm then good. The problem is that 90% of the commanders are incompetent but think they are gods gift to the world. I personally wish they got rid of the tag all together, but that will never happen. But I would argue against giving commanders more power things because it would just cause more harm. Buying a book does not make you smart or tactical.

All that being said though I cant really blame commanders, the real problem is the players. Having no idea what your doing is forgivable especially if you are new, but not reading or following direction or even more so doing the exact opposite of what is being told is not. Chasing after people like a pack of dogs, etc. And, an even bigger problem is the system rewards this kind of play.

This may belong in the tech support forums but I will offer what help I can.

About a month ago I was experiencing crashes in WvW ever 30 min exactly. I thought it was a graphics card thing so I kept my settings low. This never helped so, one time I put all my settings on the highest possible because I thought if its going to crash anyways I might as well enjoy the show. I didn’t experience any crashes after that. In fact today if I lower my settings in WvW it will crash again. I did not experience these crashes in PvE. Dont ask me why.

The second thing is since this last Lost Shores patch there has been a lot of issues for me and people in my guild. Lots of lag, random crahses and stuck at loading screens when waypointing even in the same zone.

Chris.5024:

Threads like this only serve to make us look bad as a server and negatively affect our community. Even if it’s 1 or 2 people only it still comes off as a big negative for FA and you’re going to drive away skilled players. Lots of us are in the same boat, just deal with the hand you’re dealt and let’s stop complaining. Please.

I disagree, we have been getting more and more skilled players because of how we perform and because of our attitude. Skilled well informed players or guilds know what is going on in game and word gets around not just what is on these forums, including me and you I am sure. These forums are not even half the story. I have spoken to some recent transfers about it specifically actually, so don’t sweat it so much. Keep doing the right thing in game, it comes through trust me.

hobbes.6178:

kanikani.2430:

I semi agree with the OP, I would like to see it lengthened and maybe more consistent. Some siege I places for training new people stayed open field for 10+ hours without being touched. Where are some disappeared in 15 min. Maybe make it consistently an hour, maybe two or three. I have been in defense that were longer then three hour, no reason your siege should despawn in a single defense. Or at least give us the odd rules you use for despawning so we can know.

That arrow cart was not there for 10 hours, sorry bud, people touched it.

And your proof is…..? I have witnessed these things with my own eyes, why would you dispute that and why would I lie about it? To gain? Anet has never bugged anything?

Many people have seen this were have been talking more about it server wide actually seems to be a recent patch issue. Other people in this thread have experience the same. Try it yourself.

Why come in a thread to dispute something you have no clue about other then to be a jerk?

*Added for a image of where I place siege for training. People are running by refreshing this every 30 min or less for over 10 hours in the middle of the night when there are only 5 people on the map?

I have seen this problem coming for a while. Stagnation will happen in all tiers as this game ‘settles’. It is the problem when you have large differences in population and scoring like it is. I love playing evenly matched times, but playing the same servers again and again are boring really. Every server I have played seems to favor different tactics and have different personalities and I actually enjoy experiencing the change. I would love to see some type of intervention to this. The only real solution I can see is to balance populations, either by moving players or buy adding NPC support to the lower populated servers. Because as it stands in WvW today numbers = win.

One thing I have seen good come from this last week for FA was I am seeing more guilds work together. I have seen a lot of rivalries being put to rest more mixing of people, more patience and teaching of new players. It has been good for the community. Even if we lost horribly to TC/Yaks we have to think about it long term not just he battle. And I think long term it is making us much stronger. Think about that lowlands keep defense on Friday morning, we probably could not have held that a month ago.

wombat.6123:

A thumbs up to the Yaks Bend players who persisted for so long, and so hard, in FA BL to retake Redvale from us. That siege at Redvale supply camp went literally for hours, longer than most keep sieges!

I would add that last night there were 3 Yaks trying to take Redvale for 3 hours. The camp was fully upgraded there were 6 defenders and multiple siege set up. Anyways thanks for the badges and the defense credit every 3 minutes for 3 hours.

Maybe after two hours of not working, time to hit another supply camp?

Kumu Honua.2751:

ktith.6197:

I’ve seen trebs despawn after 30 mins, but everything I’ve placed down since 3 weeks ago that isn’t a treb stays all night without anyone using it. So either it’s a bug that it’s despawning or its a bug that it’s staying up.

Or you don’t see the people pressing the F key.

I do siege training in the corner of the map where there is nothing, no keep/tower/supply camp, just mobs, enemies don’t even go there, no point/objectives. These siege, specifically ballistas and catapults have stayed up for over 10 hours. I guarantee they were not refreshed every 30 min. I think all timers are bugged at this time. Is that really a surprise though, Anet is not the best about talking about or fixing bugs.

A timer on the actual siege would be ideal. A official statement on the rules of it would be great to.

I think the Jumping puzzle is fine and people can do it any time they want even if it is a q and major stuff going on. Its a game right.

What I do hate is when people camp the stupid jump puzzle, I would love to see them kicked from wvw for taking up the spots. I have no problem with ports but I have seen 15 guys camping the stupid puzzle. With that same manpower you could very easily accomplish something in the map. There is only one thing worse then JP campers and that is the people that call out for a large group of people to come and help them clear out the JP of campers. Like we are not busy doing anything else we should send 10 guys over just to help him clear out a JP for him to get some badges/plans.

Here is my issue with bad commanders, Ok I and you know who we want to follow and who we dont. If we are on this subforum we already probably play to much WvW. So who cares if there are 50 blue dots.

The new people have no idea though and they are learning the hard way. So they see that and follow especially when someone in team chat is saying follow so and so or whatever. If the commander is not good this can lead to learning a lot of bad habits. I think this is partly why we have a zerg issue in general. Its just easier for a lot of people especially when they are inexperienced and confused to just turn off and play follow the leader.

I semi agree with the OP, I would like to see it lengthened and maybe more consistent. Some siege I places for training new people stayed open field for 10+ hours without being touched. Where are some disappeared in 15 min. Maybe make it consistently an hour, maybe two or three. I have been in defense that were longer then three hour, no reason your siege should despawn in a single defense. Or at least give us the odd rules you use for despawning so we can know.

The FA people I play with, would never, NEVER, help another server by killing enemy siege attacking their keep/tower/whatever, nor would we help protect it while it upgraded. Are you all honestly justifying this idea? Did you even read what the person said?

This sounds like the same rationality for camping the jump puzzle or spawn camping or hacking or glitching, and so on and so forth. And you claimed to be the one server that was above all of that. I remember when we were playing Blackgate you suggested it was all about the fun battles and and enjoy the defense, etc. This today sounds like metagaming and winning at any cost, not even close to the same TC we played before.

Now as far as the personal attacks, I was not there, I do not care, SMC has flipped more times to count so who cares, and that’s not the point. No one should have things handed by them on a silver platter by an enemy. And no that is not how the game was intended.

There are a lot of negative things I could say about FA at this point, but this kind of actions are not one of them thank goodness. You know what we would have done in that situation? We would have bunkered down built a lot of siege and stood our ground like the bad kitten we are, and if we lost it, we would have lost it in a good fight. Not pull some hypocritical, backhanded metagaming bs.

I agree there is a thing called strategy, but there also is a thing called honor, and why should we be sacrificing that for a game?

And since we are putting this out there like this I would also like to point out I have seen this more then 10 times so far this match, this kind of ‘tactic’.

Also, I have seen some great players from both Yak’s and TC, just as when we played before. And I will continue to play, just because of them, thankfully they are the majority.

Yes that is speed hacking, see it every other day about.

I agree with the OP fully and I wrote as much as I could similarly in the survey they sent.

This game was all about you can do what you want and progress in different ways if you want. That’s why they let you get money/xp in so many different ways, exploring, dungeons, crafting, fighting, quests, events, etc.

Now this new thing can only be done in one way. Who is running this game now?

@ykyk I don’t know I thought TC’s motto was ‘keep it classy’ that hardly seems classy. I also though they used to tout how points don’t matter. That certainly seems pretty point obsessed.

Anyways I have seen some pretty questionable things this week, but I don’t think there is much point in discussing it. Small groups or even leaders don’t represent the server. And complaining does not change that they have happened.

I would say for myself, and myself alone, I would not condone that and if my leader, or guild leader did that I would leave. The same goes for spawn camping or any other bad sport thing. In fact I had an argument on telling people not to spawn camp just last night. This is a game for fun for me, if I had to pull these kind of tactics I would just play something else. I will not win at any cost.

Vagrant.1094:

We (those of us leading) didn’t want FA to have SM. When it became clear that the position was untenable, focusing FA to prevent them from taking it while YB moved in from the north allowed you folks to get the cap.

It’s the same reason I /pointed 10 times from the south wall to a few YB 5min later, to make sure you all saw FA’s cats and wiped them – we were on our way to do it for you had you not paid attention.

And if you saw a lone female TC on the walls of outer SM when FA burst through again – once more, that was me reporting on the situation to make sure FA wouldn’t take SM. Were they ever in a position to do so, we would have wiped them for you. We didn’t need to, because YB put up some great defense, and eventually your wall upgrade kicked in.

Also, I’m not saying we’re the sole reason you took and held SM. I’m just saying we ‘wanted’ you to have it, and keep it, and were working to ensure that after you claimed it from us. Why? Because FA is much closer in points value, and we don’t want them getting any more than they already have

Great night, great fights. Well done to all servers. FA, one day the people who sit at SM all the time are going to learn to check that southern wall. One day. I was the engineer who kept running up to solo your catapults (sloooowly) and repair the walls. Good times.

Some strong leadership and good organisation tonight on TC’s part in EB – well done to all involved.

~Nyari Cil, Queen.

So I will take this as an open acknowledgement that there is an alliance between the leaders of TC and Yaks? One server or leaders of a server more specifically helping the other get or keep a point, is that not the definition of metagaming?

DKz Lux.4125:

Over and over these treads appear and the same thing is said. Please do some search before starting yet again a “Commander tag should not be bought!” post.

Commander tag can be turned off. Too many commanders in one map? Make a server wide alliance and get them into it. Teach them about commanding and tell them to turn it off if they’re not commanding. Befriend them, make them respect you. You shall have no problems then.

The problem with this is most players who spend 100G on an item so they can get a big blue dot, have major ego issues. They will not likely turn it off or listen to anyone. And this problem will get worse.

Just because you spend 100G on an item does not make you skilled, smart, strategic or anything really. The same could be said for carrying around siege. Having 100 trebs or arrow carts does not make you a leader.

I also agree it is unlikely for Anet to get rid of this money sink.

The only possible solution is to change the way the average no affiliated/experienced guy in WvW thinks. But I really don’t think that will happen either.

Sol.4310:

The main reason thief’s have a bad name is due to thief’s abusing the rendering bug or hiding in camps for 20 mins.

There day will come, just matter of time most games take around 1 year after release to get some type of balance.

This.

My problem is that if it takes a year, to fix these basic things, the game will probably die in that time.

And to the thieves doing this camp delaying, just a little advice, the few points you get out of this (5 points for one camp) I hope is worth potentially destroying your class, and driving people away from this game. Very long term thinking there.

If they simply switched WvW to PvP rules most of these problems would be solved (where stealth does not prevent capture/holding a point). But who would think an area where you mostly fight large groups of other players would be considered player vs player, crazy right.

Maniac.5163:

I’m just gonna say it – just my opinion so feel free to flame back.
FA has made some terrible strat decisions in the last two days, we are lacking communication and our supply camp control blows.
We have a lot of room for improvement in all timezones.

I agree Maniac, I really do.

The best solution I can honestly come up with is…….More Commanders, and definitely more zerging.

Static.9841:

I killed one of your Asuran Thieves (someone from PRO) outside of moles a couple days ago, I wanted to salute him, but he WP’d immediately, maybe that’s why you don’t see it? Some people just don’t wait around, I don’t.

I agree, I am typically preoccupied in WvW and I do not take great offense to it really and don’t pay much attention to emotes in general to be honest, be it good or bad. And just because someone didn’t bow or salute doesn’t mean they didn’t appreciate the skill or fight or whatever. I have seen plenty of good sports on ever server we have played. I was just saying.

Kalemar.4873:

All servers are doing the emote laughs.

Have been seeing a lot of this during this week as well. To be honest I never emote I have better things to do then that. Time spent emoting/trolling is time spent not doing something else.

I would also like to say I have never…never experience a graceful player, bow or salute to me, even in very good fights. Good for you who do it, but have been playing since beta and has never happened once for me so it is very rare and certainly not common on any server.

This problem will only get worse as the game gets older and older. We will have 50 commanders on the maps everywhere. There needs to be a limit on this and it is getting silly. Would love to see it voted, earned, or none at all.

Spartyr.6795:

kanikani.2430:

…The only thing I have seen done with WvW so far that was beneficial was removing the orbs, which I cannot imagine was that difficult…

Yeah, here’s the thing, …you cannot imagine. In other words, you have no idea.

You have no idea the complexity of the system they are working on. You have no idea what is easy or what is hard in putting fixes in place.

People need to put away their torches and pitchforks, and stop pretending like they’re the experts here. Anet said they think they can make improvements to the issue. Take a break from the game if you need to, and come back after the culling is fixed.

You guys say you want dev responses, but then chase them out of the thread, and try to tell them how to do their job. I wouldn’t want to respond to a thread like this.

I am a programmer and a business owner, so no I do have an idea exactly.

That being said, if people do ‘take a break’ and come back when things are fixed they most likely will never come back and this game that we all want to love will die on the vine like the rest of the MMO’s over the past 10 years.

And most gamers at this point are very jaded and know when a company says ‘they are working on it’ means that maybe 5 years later it will happen if ever, like many other MMO’s as well.

You need to understand this is advise from people who love and probably care more about the game then the dev’s themselves. We are paying customers and there is no reason to not treat us with the most respect and care like any other business has to. This is the foundation of why the game industry has had such a hard time as of late as far as satisfaction goes.

A little communication goes a long way, and I do thank them for posting in a thread it is rare for Anet to communicate anything, I wish they did it much, much more often. Not just about bugs, but future plans, what all these silent patches are for, etc.

Katsumoto.9452:

Kimbald.2697:

The difficult part is this:

if rendering remains an issue they can’t solve, than stealth remains overpowered in it’s current form in WvW, and lesser but still in spvp.

Not stealth by itself, but stealth + slow rendering.

As in most games they decided to couple high damage to a class with stealth.
So we get stealth + high damage.
That’s always part of the issue as well: the unnecessary reasoning that a stealth class should be a burst class because they have low uptime.
Guess what: they don’t have low uptime, their OPPONENTS have low uptime on them

So we get stealth + high damage + slow rendering as the result.
You need to lower at least one of these 3.
Slow rendering is the obvious choice, seeing as that is a bug.
But what if they can not fix that part?

If they can’t adress slow rendering, they are forced to adress the other 2 parts.

Even if those 2 parts by itself might be ok: stealth + high damage might have counters, but that becomes irrelevant when there is also slow rendering.

Ok Thieves are fine if rendering issues were not there? Do we agree thus far?

With rendering issues they can be a pain, I agree.
Trouble is, stealth isn’t just stealth.

Rendering is effective stealth as far as your opponent is concerned. Stealth is stealth as far as your opponent and you are concerned.

By that I mean to your enemy if you are in stealth you know a big attack is coming and that you cannot see them.

To the Thief, stealth prepares a big attack, is stealth, and also can be a healing tool, cleansing tool, initiative regeneration tool etc. If you nerf stealth you don’t just make us visible longer, you make us lose all those other things too.

To nerf stealth to the ridiculous extent stated by the OP would totally ruin the class frankly. That is out of the question.

So yes, they should fix the issue of rendering in WvW. Note how it really isn’t much of an issue in s/t/pvp or pve because in PvE who gives a crap if you cannot see some random thief backstab a moa.

So the balance of stealth is purely a WvW issue as it is the only area where rendering is problematic. Do we still agree? If the Thief is actually reasonably balanced and only rendering throws this off balance, then as spvp or tpvp don’t have the issue, and pve it really doesn’t matter, the issue is purely wvw.

If it is only the WvW that is the issue then you, making the assumption you have that culling cannot be fixed, may well have to make a nerf. However said nerf should affect wvw only, or be an option I propose here:

1) Make names visible in WvW even if character models aren’t. Not ideal but at least you’d know what is what. Ofc names vanish upon actual stealth.
2) Give numbers on the screen when hitting a stealthed thief. This lets you know if you’re on the right track.

You cannot really nerf stealth duration because in some cases the rendering issue outlasts the entire length of stealth, and that is just unfair to thieves. It’s impossible to put a number on a direct thief nerf based on rendering issues due to rendering affecting people to differing extents. Some don’t get it, some literally never see a thief. So people who don’t get it thieves become trash and easy kills. To those who never see them, what’s changed?

Thieves were nerfed in sPvP and tPvP already. They didn’t carry over to WvW for no apparent reason.

I have to say I personally think thieves are very broken and hate playing against them. Stalling a camp take for 30 min, is BS, deny that.

BUT, they do not need to be nerfed, thieves (and to a lesser extent warriors) need to be changes/adjusted. I have a thief as well, I have one of every class. I wouldn’t mind seeing more survivability and less stealth. Maybe some form of acrobatics, or different traps who knows. The whole class feels kind of disjointed and thrown together.

Stealth in GW 2 doesnt work very well it never did, it probably shouldn’t have been put in the game in the first place, heck their game engine cant even handle it.

Assassinin.4963:

The only solution to your grief: Play a thief yourself.

Whenever I am hurted by enemy thief, I will observe and learn how they do it. Thereafter, I will login to my thief char and applies the same learning back to their comrades.

This is karma in action. You grief me, I will grief your comrade back using exactly the methods which you have used on me.

Yes because the solution to broken mechanics and griefing, is more broken mechanics and griefing.

These are the kinds of things that make a game unfun and unplayed.

No there should be no outmanned buff because it lets another server come onto your map check you out and call all his buddies to loot is just on the fact that he clicked on your name. You should have to scout a place not just click on a char. You should never know about how many enemies are on a map just by clicking on one dude. Don’t change it remove it.

I agree with both. Why should we know when another server is outmanned?

Since Anet is responding here, I would like to ask, is it because you are ‘working’ on this that nothing else has really been done with WvW since launch?

You say that you have a WvW team, is it two guys? I mean really all these other things are being done with the game, events, dungeons, new gear, etc., and it took what 3 weeks to fix a broken vault door? The guards at the keeps would turn hostile and attack each other, again for a while. Notice none of these things were present at launch. So I would have to say that not only did you often bug or screw up something that didn’t even exist in the first place, but you have also basically added nothing useful.

The only thing I have seen done with WvW so far that was beneficial was removing the orbs, which I cannot imagine was that difficult and should have never been in there in the first place.

The audience of WvW will leave eventually if you continue to not really show anything of value and not really fix things either.

Saying your working on something is good, but lets be real, we are not going to wait forever, and the hope that you will do something only lasts so long.

The reason defense is not really practiced at this point in WvW, on any server really is because it is largely unrewarded at all, save for points which have no real value to the individual. Who wants to sit around and keep an eye on a keep or tower all day? What do you get out of that? Its good strategy but bad in practice and unfair for the people doing it. I do think most people play this game for fun, which that is not.

Also at least at this tier, no server has the manpower to properly defend really. You toss 10 people per map for defense (not much) and suddenly that is your whole server at some points in time, you can no longer take anything, and will just be pulled all over the map.

But this is a game dynamic problem not really specific to this match.

Also, I would like to see commanders delegate more and people to listen more. None of which would probably ever happen. Tonight we had 7 commanders in the same place, that is just silly and inefficient. You don’t need 40 people to take down a undefended tower, I have done it with two. But people love to follow that icon even if they are just standing around.

And guild only speak I feel is a bit insular at times. It leads to more confusion and less being accomplished. I know people are lazy to type, which is sad but whatever.

FormulaX.8901:

kanikani.2430:

I have really enjoyed this match, frustrating, and intense and fun at the same time.

One complaint/bad sport thing I have been seeing a lot of recently that I would like to see stop is siege on edge of spawn points. Its cheap and in poor taste. I am not going to blame a server because it is just one or two groups but setting up siege where you can just dodge back and be inv is stupid. It is not intended and we all know that. Winning that way kind of makes you a loser, and you know who you are. Had to clear it out 4 times this match so far. And no it wasn’t a response to spawn camping which I gladly have not really seen on any side so far.

There’s always more than one way out of a spawn camp and a group can usually easily flank the siege set up. I still havent decieded if it’s rude, but it seems pointless unless you just took the enemy’s keep in EB and want to hold off enemies while you try to fortify it. I thnik it’s also a spirit breaker method too. People come to the map, get sieged as soon as they spawn, and decide to go do something else, or go to another map.

Im not against trebbing a spawn point if you just took an enemy’s fort on their territory, but ballista/Ac-ing is kinda pointless.

But, all is fair (even mesmers and thiefs )

-FA

Actually spawn camping is BS and ruins the game by discouraging players, and thus making WvW even more empty.

BUT, I think you misread me, I am talking about the opposite, where one team will set up their own siege at their own spawn point to attack nearby tower/keep. It is in poor taste.

If you want to go the argument that it is all fair, then anything possible would be fair, glitching, going to parts of the map not accessible, bugging inside of walls, walking up the side of keeps, heck even hacking they haven’t really stopped that and it is possible with the games mechanics. Just because it is possible doesn’t make it a good sport. And I know all these servers would not condone winning in this way.

Like I said, its not a servers issue its just a small group/guild of ‘win at any cost’, which all servers have.

I would rather see maps reworked/more interesting then more maps. It wouldn’t take much to make the 3 identical (who thought up that) borderlands a bit more interesting.

And yes siege for Karma please, or even better upgrades. Or maybe a chip in mechanism for upgrades.