Guild Wars 2

DivineBeing.2086:

Invalid.8765:

DivineBeing.2086:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Why is Kain acting like “we dont field our better players on reset” is a valid reason to be bad when #s are equal?

I cannot speak for Dragonbrand. But Maguuma doesn’t field its best players either. People get suck in queues all the same as any other server.

EXACTLY! Reset night is a lotto really. That is exactly why reset night isn’t a good indication of how a server performs or how skilled it is.

Why? Because your dedicated, hardcore, WvW guilds/players can be stuck in the queues all night while your more casual alt leveling pugs filled the slots.

Passed the reset night and even more into the week days gives a much better indication of the server since you will be fielding the players that actually dedicate their time to WvW.

Thanks for help clarifying that up.

Refer to the above posts to understand how wrong you are, thinking WM did not try their hardest.

If you are saying Jang Gun and WM zergball are the “pugs to fill in the slots”, then I understand what you are saying. Jang Gun was on since reset and was still on 10+ hours after reset when I was going to sleep.

Oh snaps! ONE guild was capable of fielding some of their members! Proof that it was all of them? Doubt it.

Funny how people think that ONE guild carries a server. Wait until you get to higher tiers and let me know how ONE guild does for that server as a whole mmmk.

Yet WM leading the transfers to Kaineng was the reason a lot of guilds (like RE, can’t remember any other guilds at the moment) followed suit.

what.

He is describing what he’s seen from one guild tag. It’s just funny that’s the guild that RE and others followed because of some hype.

Remember how engineers got 5 pages of class changes?

Caliburn.1845:

Hmm, a couple misconceptions going around.

1) Player “skill” is a silly generalization to make, especially when you sweep entire server populations into it. DB/Mag players are not more skilled than Kain players, nor vice versa. The average player skill across all three servers is about the same. All three servers have players who are above average, and players who are below average.

2) The only standout guild in this match-up is War Machine. I feel perfectly comfortable fighting any guild on Mag or Kain, but when I bump into WM, it is clear everyone else on all three servers is outclassed. The discipline, the organization, and the sheer amount of hours WM puts into WvW is admirable. And I respect them a great deal.

3) Whatever “queue” problems actually exist, exist on all three servers. I believe that 70-80 people is the standard population cap on borderlands maps. I have never seen a borderlands map with greater numbers than that from one server.

4) Kain was not beat in the first hours of reset because of the great skill of Mag/DB, nor because of population numbers, or because one server is more skilled. Kain was beat because they holed up in Stonemist at the price of some PPT, and because the defense of Kain bl was disjointed after Mag executed a brilliant rush on Kain garrison in the first few minutes of the match.

Had Kain held its own garrison from reset, all three servers would have been more or less evenly matched scorewise in the first few hours. All this chest-thumping from DB/Mag that we beat Kain in those early hours is silly. We got lucky, in part because I don’t think Kain has ever really had to seriously defend its borderlands on reset before.

A couple misconceptions in this post.

1) Maguuma experienced this last week during our match against FA, which was the first time we faced any competition in a month. We had a lot of players making silly mistakes and I think it’s fair to say that for that reset and the week that preceded it we were on average less skilled than the other servers. In the weeks leading up to that, we had the numbers to stomp regardless of an opponent’s average skill since that tends to snowball. Once we hit the FA wall, we lost a large amount of our fairweather players, and that’s a different issue that they will face in the higher tiers.

2) I’m not sure if you’ve been following the threads, but the counter to WM’s tactic is simply to move to the side of the line they’re running in. Try it next time instead of standing in awe.

4) There are 4 maps in wvw and SM is only on one of them. I wasn’t in eternal, and I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would sacrifice the rest of the map for it, but that’s not why people are saying they were stomped at reset. On WMBL, where all 3 of our servers had equal numbers, WM had trouble even holding their north supply camp for any length of time. Proper play on a map includes defense, so I’m not sure why you’re saying that they only lost that night simply because they lost stuff quickly.

And your last point is kind of what Maguuma forum warriors have been trying to express, albeit in sarcastic ways. They need to learn how to deal with opposition. The karma train is going to end, they will lose a large amount of fairweathers or even large guilds that “get bored” of higher tiers and move on to easier matches. They can win due to coverage until they are matched against servers with similar coverage, and then the deficit in strategy and tactics will begin to show.

Ninein.4782:

Also wanted to add another observation about WM zergball. We have faced BT that employs similar tactics as WM zergball but nobody has accused BT of botting. So what was it about WM zergball that makes people think they have bots among them?

Well last night I got a chance to go into EB and fight against the famed Jun Gang or whatever his name was from WM. Anyways, I had several suspicious observation that some players in the WM zergball are not entirely human.

Case #1:

WMzergball was defending Quentin that had a hole in the wall with Maguuma zerg on the outside trying to push in. What they would do is gather up in the lord room and then run out the hole in the wall or portal in the door to strike a particular location.

I wanted to test to see how dynamic this WM zergball is at changing target. When the zergbal ran up to the lord room to regroup. I ran up and attacked them by my lonesome self. To my suprise, most of them just ran past me as I attacked them. I was able to slow 5 and only 5 out of the whole 30 of em attacked me. From my observation, they attack an area and are not capable of switching target to hit individual people.

Case #2:

Maguuma breaks through Durios door and are taking down the tower lord. In our previous attempt, the WM zerg ball would charge in behind us and wipe us out. On this second attempt, I positioned myself below the lord room waiting for them to charge us. They indeed charge us at the lord room and I call inc. To my suprise, they did not attack me on their way to the lord room. I had ample time to slow them yet again and drop all my AE on them. This again confirms my suspicion, that this WM zerg is incapable of dynamic target switching. Plus I think they just target ground location and not individual opponents.

Case #3:

The WM zergball came to Valley keep area and tried to set up siege to take out Trebuchets that were sitting high up on a pedestal. You’ll think a highly coordinated zergball of 30 players could get a siege up while under fire. What I saw was maybe 5 people try to build the siege and the other 25 just standing around twidling their thump. They eventually couldn’t build the siege. This makes me think there’s only a few “live” thinker in that zergball of 30.

Mind you this was only a few hours of fighting them last night. So I’m sure people who have fought these guys longer wouldn’t miss these subtle details.

The funny part is that eternal is where the generally uncoordinated randoms go when they want to wvw. There are very few wvw-dedicated groups that only play in eternal. It makes for easy stomping when an organized group goes in there. At least, until people figure out the counter of “moving to the side.”

Mister Mustard.7203:

Ninein.4782:

I would’ve been impressed with Kaineng if they held their own on reset night. Heck it would make some kind of statement if Kaineng held their own during reset night in T4.

But alas, when this is pointed out, there’s just a lot of denial and excuses. Don’t blame some of us for thinking that Kaineng is carried by Koreans.

But why does it matter how they get their points?

Do you have to be beaten exactly on your terms, exactly how you want to be played, for it to be respectful? If an opponent capitalizes on an advantage, that’s somehow underhanded behavior?

The battle is between servers, not individuals or guilds. If you care about the outcome, then you simply have to acknowledge that the entirety of what that server offers is what you get.

If you don’t care about the outcome, only the fight, then why even comment about what happens when you’re asleep?

Or we could all transfer to Kaineng and be The Best. (You’re totally missing the point.)

To be fair, RE did join the WM server following the initial transfer as well.

While this thread is temporarily (maybe?) closed for moderation, please use the more posi thread, located here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/2-1-Maguuma-Dragonbrand-WM-Take-2/first

Crossposting from the other thread that is in desperate need of moderation:

Brosef.7234:

All this “Kaineng’s NA guys are bad” stuff originates from reset night. We’ve won the last two NA primetimes.

Reset night is simply explained by our population, which works against us on reset night as the PuG participation rate is highest at that time. More PuG’s = smaller guild teams and weaker organization overall. It’s a side effect of the goal of building a light population server into a very heavy population server that is a high % WvW participant population.

I know it upsets other servers that we’re bandwagoners or somesuch… but they should understand that most of these guilds on Kaineng now have been in tier 1 before. We’ve been in alliances that carried servers to tier 1 and gotten burned out on late night shifts. Our own guild left IoJ after the exodus began there… which was caused by the bigger guilds getting fatigued by the pressure of needing them online every night until late in the night. These guilds left for tier 1-2 servers with better population coverage.

Kaineng presented the opportunity to build a server bereft of a heavy PvE-only populace. We have the opportunity to WvW on a more casual time frame (though we fight as a hardcore WvW guild on our raid nights) due to the high participation rate created by all the WvW guild transfers. It’s worked out exactly as we’d hoped thus far. Our guildmembers who like sleep are able to get more of it again. It’s been healthier for our guild for sure.

1) Defense is easier than offense (given equal numbers).
2) The “We lost because we had a queue” defense is very weak.
3) You’re admitting to transferring to a lower tier server to have an easier time.

The other thread (not even sure why we need two?? Please delete the other one, mods) has become very negative. Anyone have a score update?

edit: Thank you ^^

You’re kind of bad at this.

zaniix.9074:

If the match up is not fair it is not our fault, nobody on Kain picked it

This only makes sense if you’ve been on the server since day 1.

Thanks for covering up the secret alliance, guys. I think we fooled them, but we should probably stage some tower trades to really solidify the story.

Don’t speak about the secret alliance, please.

Rhyis.7058:

From the score it looks like I wasn’t the only Mag to be busy with Superbowl day instead of keep defense. NA servers and their silly football importance.

My guild was under orders not to watch the superbowl.

WMBL is now on lockdown. Great defense!!!

Let’s all stick to one thread, please:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/2-1-Maguuma-Dragonbrand-WM-Take-2/first#post1367509

Well I finished my daily and there aren’t enough Maguuma in WMBL to portal them into west keep right now. I guess I’ll swim laps for a bit if anyone wants to join me. We could have a dance party or just sit in one of the rowboats. I’m gonna get bored quickly though.

I’ve been farming sharks for my daily in WMBL west keep for half an hour. I’m a mesmer. If a mesmer evades you, that doesn’t mean they left. Keep looking.

I’m still here.

Let’s keep is positive people!!

Gonna be a shame when WM transfers after they hit the higher tiers and RE follows suit. I’ve spent most of my time in WMBL and haven’t seen many other guilds there.

This thread is great, just keep it positive. Good job defending west keep in WMBL. Seems like you’re learning a bit!

Who can res their downed the fastest?? 20v20 the ultimate test of elite skillz.

Good fights on WMBL today. But please note that the answer to a problem is not always “throw more bodies at it.”

Our “militia” is just Maguuma. The guild part of gw2 isn’t as important as people seem to think it is.

I’ve seen a lot of people mention this “militia” thing before. Is that just a bunch of people in the same place who aren’t in the same guild? Because that’s just Maguuma.

kiwiburner.2186:

wads.5730:

this thread is severly lacking, the T2 thread has more posts.

wtb more drama

Hehe, well.

In a last ditch effort to stop Kaineng taking the lead, several Maguuma scumbags in KBL were stacking on the invuln point behind the south-west camp and repeatedly taking it.. of course, in the meantime, Kaineng recapped DB, and all of the southern towers, but its the principle.

Felt stupid that I let them kill me (I was trying to get a shot of their invulnerable message appearing as I grenade barraged them). Anyway, their guilds are hereby named and shamed.

Thank you for your noble efforts. These players and guilds will be severely punished by the Maguuma Alliance. I’m willing to bet these players also kill people in jumping puzzles, sneak into spawn where you yourself are invulnerable, and sometimes take mesmer portals or use stealth. Most dishonourable.

I was on WMBL most of the night and had some fun. Seems like they’re waking up a bit now, though. Good luck to WM and DB the rest of the week, let’s keep it civil.

Xavi.6591:

You can see how many golems the opposition has. You can also kill merchants. It is exploiting.

Until it’s changed, hide your golems. Then kill the players for free loot since you’re invulnerable and get free experience for resurrecting your merchants. Win-win.

Can we please be more accurate to the point tick and discuss this matchup in 1/96ths?

Saweth You Him.9047:

na na na nah nah. Our ques disabled our guilds from coordinating across borderlands. You dropped the first ego bomb. Tell us about your 1/48th of a day, not what came after.

I had fun. How was your day?

Saweth You Him.9047:

O man all the cards are on the table now. If Maguma doesn’t hold I’m going to say “How was you 1/48th of a day Maguma. Tell us all about it. Spare no details.”

We had a queue so we were unable to fight back.

edit: Unrelated, but I’m actually proud of the nickname Turtleguuma from someone who complains about open field fighters.

Saweth You Him.9047:

I wasn’t there to see our borderlands get pillaged but I bet it had to do with ques in every borderland and eb at this time and the people who need to get where they need to go to defend being unable to do it.

Best post in this thread. A++ would read again.

Hexin.5603:

Did you enjoy the pve? … in any event at least you had fun.

God forbid Yak’s Bend makes an effort despite facing Kaineng. I don’t understand how anyone one Kaineng can be talking trash on these forums.

Maguuma stopped worrying about BT a few days ago.

edit: I feel bad that FA will never know how truly boring a “huge lead” actually is.

Waking.6052:

I have also recently come to the conclusion (after about a thousand hours of WvW) that WvW is not about fighting 5v5, or 8v8, or 20v20. It’s about mobilizing siege equipment and supply.

About 80 percent of effectiveness in WvW is mobilizing siege equipment and supply, by my estimate. So if you don’t like strategically placing siege and building it with supply whether to attack or defend, you’re not going to enjoy competitive WvW.

That’s true. Last night FA left us with one north tower and east keep. I solo-built a treb in the tower and began trebbing our garrison. FA responded by building 3 trebs, having an ele or two use swirling winds, capturing camps to finish the wall upgrade, and attempting to build ballistae and catapults to take down the treb/speed up the wall takedown.

It would have been the smart way to play if it were more than just me in the tower, so props for that. By the time our wall went down we still only had 3 defenders in there, though. Not much we can do at that point.

That being said, trebbing is incredibly dull for most people who just want to enjoy the game and not “compete” in wvw. I enjoy defense, but I don’t think I’ve seen a real attempt on our garrison or east keep during this match yet (again, aside from 5-10am est when we have a handful of people playing). The whole southwest spawn/west keep game is the worst part of wvw, in my opinion. I’d almost like to just let it fall so we can see a real attempt on a different place on the map before we all log off. Still hoping to learn some stuff from FA, but holding you off until we go to sleep isn’t engaging.

Besetment.9187:

I think Mags is very closely matched in population to Dragonbrand and belongs in tier 3. Its more like Fort Aspenwood belongs in tier 2.

This is probably true, as we seem pretty even with them but with opposite peak times. I just rarely see DB when I play. I’m not sure who would make a good third opponent, though, and with Kaineng moving up, it will be another tier 2 server the week after next.

ower.9143:

Rhyis.7058:

ower.9143:

Turtle turtle turtle… how maguma bores me. You guys wanna call anything that beats you a zerg. Just go spvp.

Maguuma has spent it’s entire WvW lifetime losing. We like losing and we know how to defend. If you can’t crack the egg that is Maguuma, maybe you should hit DBs borderlands.

seeing as we’ve taken hills and bay from you in the span of an hour or so, cracking the egg that is maguuma isn’t that tough.

I get the impression you’re just trolling, but it took about 10-12 hours for FA to just take west keep from Maguuma the night before. And it flipped at about 5AM est, when Maguuma’s coverage is the weakest. I counted no less than 4 commanders on FA’s end to rally the pubbies where they needed to be, while we had zero and still wiped double our numbers in the lord room 4 or 5 times. A lot of us were so bored of that treb game today that we went and took your east keep before you even had a chance to scout it out (1700/1700 supply).

WVW is a numbers/coverage game, and Maguuma does not belong in this tier for that reason. Most of us don’t want to be in this tier, but our last few matchups were blowouts against servers that were in freefall or simply stopped trying (with the exception of Yak’s Bend, who always put up a fight, but couldn’t stop our mindless zergs autoattacking down gates whenever they’d take a tower). Now that we’re up against opposition, our fairweathers are gone. The reset announcement hasn’t helped much either since we’re locked into our next matchup.

Plus, you guys have Thoblrin, which is basically like cheating in this game. He read Son of Tezoo’s War Art and studied medieval history to gain the upper-hand in wvw. The guy is ex-military, if you haven’t heard.

Bit.2519:

Good long fight for the Bay in Maguuma BL tonight, so much superior siege in that lord room mang.

<3

That was around hour 12 of mostly non-stop west keep siege, except for one brief break to let us get supply in and repair. Did you enjoy being moa’d? When can we see the recording?

After that we were outmanned and I think by then you had more golems than we had defenders on the map.

Here are some thoughts since the reset night strategy has dissolved into actual gameplay:
-There are some embarrassing posts in this thread (my Maguuma not excluded).
-The sw spawn/sw tower/west keep treb game is extremely dull for both sides, but we managed to hold out tonight. It was a noble effort, though.
-BT reminds me of the old Maguuma tactics with the addition of stability. Unfortunately, stacking was nerfed and stability can’t be on indefinitely. It still caught us off guard the first few times, though.
-The mesmer Avatar guild inspired me to change up my build, but I think it would be more effective if they didn’t all run together as one. Maybe a 5-man peppered in with the other zergs.
-I wish there were an easier way to deal with sw tower when we don’t have the same numbers or organization of whoever captures it.

Yep, got off this sinking ship earlier today. Kaineng is doing a lot better this week than Maguuma ever will.

Tricare.2946:

WäR holding Mendon’s Gap from DB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6TY8f7gGik

Bonus points for the Yamma X and Tolbrinh chat in the corner. It’s a shame Tolbrinh left us so soon, he had a lot left to teach Yamma X on the art of commanding.

Tolbrinh, you should speak up on the Maguuma Mumble. We miss your voice.

IoJ is fighting hard this matchup Keep it up!

ShaunZ.1098:

SethGrev.8275:

Nyxpersona.9128:

gotta love them maguuma idiots /laugh in a 10 v1 ….. come fight me 1 v1 ill rock your junk

Yep….and no one from your server ever danced/laughed on someone from the opposing server when they outnumbered them 10v1.

Waypoint quicker or get over it.

If we never did it why does it make it ok for you? This makes no sense at all!

Because Maguuma is dishonourable.

Is ET next once Kaineng hits their peak and stalls out/gets bored? Or will paid transfers end the cycle?

Sounds like SoS needs another recruitment thread.

Chalky.8540:

You should transfer over here. Your skill and our ability to actually organise the map population – we make beautiful babies.

This post is a lie.

magumra even zergs the score updates im transferring off this ship whos with me