Instantly, your concept is flawed. You’re comparing a single player experience to an online MMO experience. Two completely different things with completely different mechanics. You can’t put a single player experience in an MMO, as it would never work.
In a single player game, they can do all that and make everything revolve around you and immerse you in everything perfectly. There is no competition, no balance needed, nothing. It is all about you and no one else.
But in an MMO, you have to set rules and requirements. There is millions of players at one time and they have to all be considered in everything. It doesn’t just revolve around you and balance is needed to keep everything in check for everyone.
You just can’t compare the two, sorry. They will never work together.
You are completely wrong. His comparison is entirely valid.
Early MMOs were endogenous in the way he describes, including GW1 (EQ1 was a perfect example of such). So your counter-argument ends there. His comparison is valid. That he chose Skyrim instead of EQ1 just helps more people to understand it.
You don’t have to agree with him on his preferences, but EQ1 and others show you have no point to make.
Gw1 was not an MMO. Have no clue about EQ, never played it, heard it described more than once as a grindy, broken mess though.
I played one game . . . one game . . . where big boss monsters could crash in at any time in certain parts. It was fun/interesting the first few times. Then it became highly freaking annoying.
Same series also handled big boss fights happening in a variety of locations. Surprise, it wasn’t quite entirely random but predetermined places where there was enough space to fight in. To do that would require GW2 to have been built with that idea and there would have been semi-obvious “boss battle locations” people would have scoped out to watch.
I don’t want them trying those here, I don’t think a translation of those fights over here is a good idea because it would be a immensely unpopular change.
Fun and challenging game play would be immensely unpopular, gotcha.
@ killcannon – agreed, but that part hasn’t really changed, right?
The only thing that has changed is the fact that they are now a tad more popular because of the loot – especially the shadow behemoth since it has a very unique drop.
Which is why this comes up now (or maybe more then before and is more interesting), because it’s more visible. Before – done that, ok, nothing all to special, lag etc – ok, won’t go out of my way to go there again. I’m all for changing the events/fights to become more interesting and flowing nicer – but it’s no argument to make them not drop loot or make them entertaining only a fraction of the population.
The events should drop loot. But they shouldn’t be on a timer. Timer encourages farming, farming draws people out of the game world to concentrate in certain areas, people not congregating at the events think world is dead, eventually everyone just farms six or seven events.
Solutions are to either make these encounters enjoyable from a game play point of view, or to get rid of timers so they can not be farmed on a clock, or both. Timers are bad in and of themselves, spontaneity is much more fun from a game play perspective. But you should indeed get fat lootz from doing a challenging encounter. Removing reward from these encounters would indeed be a mistake. They just need to be less predictable.
An anecdote from my time playing WoW that resembles my ideas for dragons would be when the faction wars from Southshore and Tarren Mill would bring in high level players from all over the world when one of those two towns were under attack. For a game based around reward the way WoW was, that little non scripted event always drew players in simply because it was fun. Dragons could be like that in some instances, with npcs announcing around the world that such and such dragon is on the way to such and such town.
The problem is with farming, and farming goes away with unpredictability.
Copied from an earlier thread: Dragons are so mind numbingly stupid (stand in one place and auto attack). If there is any one thing that is broken with this game it’s the dragons, on a kitten timer at that. Zero challenge, faceroll skill involved, absolutely the same exact thing every single time you fight one in the same exact place on a clock. A legendary process it ain’t. I feel more challenged from a skritt.
Not sure how doing the exact same thing for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes is fun. Dragon fights are mechanical and offer very little player input besides “stand here and auto attack or use bazooka 1” I enjoyed it the first time, but the tenth time? The twentieth? Got old real quick. The only reason people do them after that many times is for the chest, not fun.
They need to get rid of the current dragon encounters, make them roaming, use an actual mob model instead of a building model, and make them dangerous and unpredictable. Make them crash DE’s, low level zones…hell, any zone. I’d be hilariously happy if they attacked cities. And don’t put em on a frakkin timer.
If we got rid of timers, then people camping out for the events would do one of two things:
- Stop camping out there in real-time, but leave an alt there and wait for a buddy to tell them it started.
- Camp there 24/7 and wait for it to start.
Some would, not all. The amount of people willing to do that is drastically lower than people who go ALT+TAB google Dragon Timer, select server – ALT TAB back to game, map to next dragon – repeat.
You’re correct. Some would . . . and I’ve actually seen people abandon at Claw of Jormag because it wasn’t going down fast enough so they could go to Tequatl or Shadow Behemoth.
Sadly, I don’t think there’s much you can do to discourage them.
Then also change the location of the events, make them “Random”…gasp.
Stop trying to be clever and think you can “score points” on me. One, I don’t care. Two, you shouldn’t either.
The events have specific locations for a long laundry list of reasons, and these are now nigh impossible to change without serious reworking of the whole game landscape. On top of that, there is a not-insignificant challenge to having the fights change location while still being interesting and not having one encounter be easier than another . . . or more accessible . . . or some other reason people would do that event instead of the five others.
Variables and random chance are all fine and good, but they’re really not a friend to people trying to put together a large-scale battle.
Not trying to score points at all. Been posting about the dragon “battles” for quite awhile and why they are broken in there current form. I’m too lazy to copy pasta earlier posts.
Because you can’t do a daily on an alt? Wait..you can? And it gives a significant exp reward? So you mean I could level alts just by doing dailys? Imagine that.
If we got rid of timers, then people camping out for the events would do one of two things:
- Stop camping out there in real-time, but leave an alt there and wait for a buddy to tell them it started.
- Camp there 24/7 and wait for it to start.
Then also change the location of the events, make them “Random”…gasp.
Rewards for doing things aren’t a problem. Timers for these events are the problem. They are nothing more than a farm factory at present. Go to any of the world events about 20 minutes before kickoff and watch the characters stand around looking in one direction. Looks like a scene from a Shyamalan flick. Nothing says broken quite like that.
We have two possible scenarios.
1.) Exotic gear is the best. You can get it through any style of play in a reasonable amount of time.
2.) Ascended gear is the best. You can get it only through specific content, and over a long period of time. Ascended gear is X% better than Exotic.
In scenario 1 everyone wins. In scenario 2, nobody benefits while others are frustrated.
This is one of the main reasons why people don’t want this. Does nothing good, causes only problems.
Your post. Post says if there were no tier called ascended everything would be ok. Post says that ascended is bad because it can only be obtained through certain avenues (which can be said of any gear) and that it has a time gate.
Using your own argument it can be stated that Exotic is time gated and can only be accessed though certain areas of the game, therefor it is bad. Masterwork gear is also gated, but not as much. Fine gear is also gated, but not as much as the others. Gating is applied to all gear in this game, and, many others.
Ascended gear does the exact same thing as exotic gear does, makes the game easier. You say that ascended does nothing good. Therefor all gear besides basic gear does nothing good, since all gear shares the same attributes to acquire just to a lesser extent.
You also only get exotics through specific content and it takes time. White<blue<green<orange<pink with legendary as a possible always BiS. Each one of those tiers takes longer and more effort than the previous one. Your logic dictates there should only be white gear.
Nope. My logic does not imply that only white gear should exist. All I’ve done is explain why Ascended gear is a bad idea, not why having multiple tiers is a bad idea.
Your post states that having X tier gear is “good enough”. If white tier gear is good enough, with included player skill, then no other tier or power progression need exist. You say X tier is bad because it is unnecessary, If the majority of players can complete the largest part of the game content without X tier of gear then that tier is unjustified. Therefor, by your post, exotics and masterwork are both unnecessary because, simply, they are not needed to complete the majority of content with a sufficiently skilled group.
Grind is there, but it’s not necessary…
You ask “why the grind?”
I ask “Why are you grinding?”Ascended gear is over-rated, and it doesn’t make you a better player.
In all, I don’t like the laurels either. The argument you are making is seriously lacking any sense, but there is point to be made.
Problem is 90% of people complaining about laurels are attacking it as if it was the core of the game, it’s not.
The REAL problem of laurels is that it’s bland content and that was proclaimed to extend the longevity of the game. Three months of events scrapped to stabilize bugs, even out the classes, and add a over-hyped “living story”. This was enough to keep most players playing, but there is a small good sized number of disappointed players growing.Some would disagree with me, but I feel the content is only going to continue to be watered down to small events being over hyped.
If you disagree and decide to continue to play, GOOD ON YOU.
If you want to cry about laurel grind as if it were important, great find another game and be happy.I think ANet should be fully aware of the situation at hand, and the route it’s going isn’t good. Only time will tell, Maybe I am wrong… Who knows.
Why do you need to have a fully geared character? I mean, aside from making farming faster. I have 11 characters, 5 80s and not one of them is in full exotics yet. Despite this, I’m not prevented from engaging in ANY kind of content or gameplay.
The idea that you have to be fully geared is nothing but an arbitrary goal set by the players themselves. If you want to focus on that to the exclusion of all else, then don’t complain about grinding. No one is forcing you to do it except you. Play the game and everything will eventually take care of itself. If you’re unable to wait for your goodies, don’t blame the game for giving you the opportunity to speed things up by grinding.
It’s not grinding, it’s called game play. If you expect the best of everything with little to no effort what is the point? Grinding is spending months and months and months to get even the most basic of things.
Exotics, ascended etc, need you to play the game to get them and it won’t be an instant gratification deal – it will involve time to play and skill. The thing is though, you don’t need exotics or ascended if you don’t want. You can still play the game perfectly fine without them.
This game is multi-faceted. You can do a great deal of things in it all the while not needing to grind to get there. If you want to grind a dungeon/event/path/whatever, that’s your choice, it’s not compulsory.We have two possible scenarios.
1.) Exotic gear is the best. You can get it through any style of play in a reasonable amount of time.
2.) Ascended gear is the best. You can get it only through specific content, and over a long period of time. Ascended gear is X% better than Exotic.
In scenario 1 everyone wins. In scenario 2, nobody benefits while others are frustrated.
This is one of the main reasons why people don’t want this. Does nothing good, causes only problems.
You also only get exotics through specific content and it takes time. White<blue<green<orange<pink with legendary as a possible always BiS. Each one of those tiers takes longer and more effort than the previous one. Your logic dictates there should only be white gear.
There was a time, right up to around launch, that I had full confidence in this company as well. Everything they did, not just spoke about, indicated that they were keen advocates for their players and were doing everything in our best interests.
However, in the months since, the decisions they’ve made have made it clear to me that player enjoyment no longer was a priority. It’s as if some Wormtongue is whispering treasonous notions into their ears as they sleep, and those ideas are being thrown into the game without any thought.
Personally, I don’t have much of a problem with game bugs or technical weaknesses. I can live with those. It’s the actual decisions on how things should work in the game that I find abhorrent. ArenaNet has consistently succeeded in driving wedges into their player base, fracturing us with design mechanics that could so easily have been inclusive rather than exclusive.
The most recent example is the guild missions, which clearly have caused no end of anger and consternation with a huge cross-section of players. It would have been so easy to avoid this, but ArenaNet made a conscious decision to go forward with it anyway. That tells me they are either clueless as to what affect these types of mechanics are going to have on their players, or they just don’t care. That’s a long way from the company I remember from the months and years prior to release, who seemed to have their finger squarely on the pulse of their target audience and knew exactly what we were wanting from a game.
Frankly, it feels like completely different team from the one that got me hooked on the game with nothing more than a design manifesto. This one is not only out of touch with their community, but is borderline incompetent.
So yes, I would say that I no longer trust them. I’m not even sure who the hell they are anymore.
It’s not a cross section if it’s only players in small guilds.
Gotta love the GW1 player base. Always good for a chuckle. Still upset this isn’t GW1 part 2, or an expansion of that game. Because, really, that’s what it breaks down to.
Take it from a 7 year vet of WoW.This is Happy Fun Princess Island of gear grinds compared to other mmos.
Gear grinds key word.
I can not argue the fact that there is, indeed, a gear grind for people who do not enjoy that play style. Some like it, some do not. I quit WoW because of it (mostly the pvp tier stuff). It is inherent in the MMO. But, yes but, this game ameliorates the grind to an enormous extent.
Take it from a 7 year vet of WoW, there isn’t a gear chase here yet. They may start one, but it isn’t here yet. This is Happy Fun Princess Island of gear grinds compared to other mmos. I still can’t get over how nice it is here compared to other mmos.
To someone that has 7 (close to 8 ) level 80s, it certainly is. I’d be looking at a minimum of 8 months to get ascended jewelry alone. That’s not including a back slot item, or any infusions. It might be better than a lot of other MMO’s, but I just don’t see how it’s not a gear chase if you have more than a single character.
It is a gear chase, and it will always be. Before ascended, it was a gear chase. It’s a mmo. I have five alts as well (my poor mesmer is neglected). What is your answer, then, to the gear chase problem? Once you buy something for one toon they all have it? It’s a juggle to try to keep people satisfied and to keep them playing. It’s what you buy into when you get an mmo. They have made remarkable strides in this game to keep everyone decently geared so you can do the content pretty much when it’s available. In other games of this genre (not GW1, not a mmo) , all the content isn’t accessible when your at the level of the content. If a player wants to do any dungeon, they can. If a player wants to do world bosses, they can. If a player wants to W3, they can. It’s something you just do not see in other games of this type.
Does there need to be more than the lore, the world, and the aesthetics to turn what was essentially a coop rpg game into a true mmo? Some things would just never have worked from GW1 put into a persistent world setting with the population of an mmo. It can’t be the same, no matter how much they may have wanted it to be in the beginning, or how much the fans of the original may also want it to be.
The only thing I can think of are H&H and I’m glad they aren’t back. But I was more referring to the insane amount of builds an itemization. It’s still here, but not quite as strong as I remember it from back then. Item drops and time spent were better back then, something the devs are still trying to get right. Also, dailies aren’t quite yet the Zhaisen missions of GW2 which I think ANet are trying to replicate here.
There were some really strong things in GW1 that could work here as well. People shouldn’t be so quick to scoff and roll their eyes at the GW1 fan base in forum. There are still a few things GW2 can learn from GW1.
It’s not my intention to trivialize GW1 players. Not at all. But most discussions of this type quickly break down to “GW1 was better, Anet is alienating the GW1 player base, etc etc” Instead of embracing the parts of the original that are intact, people seem to be offended at the parts they have left out. This isn’t a case of Diablo 2 vs Diablo 3, It’s a case of NWN vs D&D online. Some things just can’t be translated over.
Gotta love the GW1 player base. Always good for a chuckle. Still upset this isn’t GW1 part 2, or an expansion of that game. Because, really, that’s what it breaks down to.
GW2 is very fun to play, as one GW1. But the promise of “taking what made GW great and putting that into a persisent world” is just flat-out being destroyed in favor of “taking what kept the gear-addicts playing insert every other MMO and putting that into what was supposed to be a unique game”.
GW2 isn’t GW1, and it wasn’t supposed to be….but the great things about GW1 they did keep are being killed off in favor of being like everyone else
Just curious though, if you take away lore, the world, and all the aesthetics, what of GW1 is still alive in GW2?
Does there need to be more than the lore, the world, and the aesthetics to turn what was essentially a coop rpg game into a true mmo? Some things would just never have worked from GW1 put into a persistent world setting with the population of an mmo. It can’t be the same, no matter how much they may have wanted it to be in the beginning, or how much the fans of the original may also want it to be.
Gotta love the GW1 player base. Always good for a chuckle. Still upset this isn’t GW1 part 2, or an expansion of that game. Because, really, that’s what it breaks down to.
GW2 is very fun to play, as one GW1. But the promise of “taking what made GW great and putting that into a persisent world” is just flat-out being destroyed in favor of “taking what kept the gear-addicts playing insert every other MMO and putting that into what was supposed to be a unique game”.
GW2 isn’t GW1, and it wasn’t supposed to be….but the great things about GW1 they did keep are being killed off in favor of…I don’t even know what.
Take it from a 7 year vet of WoW, there isn’t a gear chase here yet. They may start one, but it isn’t here yet. This is Happy Fun Princess Island of gear grinds compared to other mmos. I still can’t get over how nice it is here compared to other mmos. It’s relaxing, it’s fun, I don’t stress over not playing a couple days, and I can do all the content (except jp’s, hate jp’s). This may not be GW1, but it’s a kitten fine mmo.
Gotta love the GW1 player base. Always good for a chuckle. Still upset this isn’t GW1 part 2, or an expansion of that game. Because, really, that’s what it breaks down to.
To paraphrase the op: There is too much stuff to do!!! There are too many ways to do it!!! When given a choice, I feel like I need to do everything at once!!!
If you have limited time constraints, is that the games fault? It’s a 60 dollar one time payment for months and months and months of just playing a game. This isn’t work, this isn’t someone holding a gun to your head, it’s a game. If you are feeling like this, you may have some issues that are not game related.
If you could acquire all BiS gear from all currencies, I’d be inclined to agree with you. That would mean you can CHOOSE to play through a wide variety of playstyles including dungeons, fractals, WvW, open world PvE, Guild Missions, etc. to get the gear that you want.
However, that’s not the case.
Right now, we have:
- Ascended earrings that are exclusive to Guild Missions and Laurels
- Ascended backpieces exclusive to Fractals
- Ascended amulets exclusive to Laurels
- Ascended rings exclusive to Fractals and laurels.
So, in order to achieve BiS gear…on ONE character, you must:
- Play guild missions
- Play fractals
- Do dailies and monthly on a regular basis
- Play dungeons/craft/buy exotic armor.
That’s 4 playstyles required to have BiS gear. And they must be done regularly to keep up. That is simply too much.
No more new currencies. Add every ascended piece to every playstyle.
- Karma
- Laurels
- Gold/Crafting
- Fractals
- Dungeons
- Guild missions
- and PLEASE give something to WvW.
Agreed. But, originally ascended could only be gained from fractals. Then they added new ways to get it. My advice is to wait a bit, they should even it out across all play styles eventually. The original post read more like a content overload than a lack of gear opinion.
The headline should read: Dragon Campers get owned by regular mobs! Petition to make all Krait into building models started!
Personally I hope this is the beginning of the end for the Dragon campers, and Tunnel farmers.
To paraphrase the op: There is too much stuff to do!!! There are too many ways to do it!!! When given a choice, I feel like I need to do everything at once!!!
If you have limited time constraints, is that the games fault? It’s a 60 dollar one time payment for months and months and months of just playing a game. This isn’t work, this isn’t someone holding a gun to your head, it’s a game. If you are feeling like this, you may have some issues that are not game related.
That champion Abomination underground is a pita.
All I have to say is…remove the chest and see who does them then.
would be nice if they removed the rewards for fotm
If all you had to do in FotM was stand in one spot and auto attack, I’d totally agree.
isn’t it then just the same? in both you are simply reacting to a pre-set computer programmed chain of events that you learn and rinse and repeat…
the only difference is that dragons encounters are fun and fotm are mind-numbingly repetitive
Uh…what? The dragons don’t do anything except stand there. You pick a spot by the foot and either aoe or auto attack. You can spice it up and jump up and down I guess. The dragons are just building models who do not react at all to the players. They will do the same exact same thing one million times in a row regardless if there is no one or 500 people standing there, as long as the pre reqs are met.
I’m not against open world pve content, I’m all for it. But adding in more of the stale encounters we already have just so people can put them on a rotation and farm them is counter to fun. If you enjoy whacking the side of a barn, go for it.
All I have to say is…remove the chest and see who does them then.
would be nice if they removed the rewards for fotm
If all you had to do in FotM was stand in one spot and auto attack, I’d totally agree.
All I have to say is…remove the chest and see who does them then.
wiki…http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro…
It needs citations so parts could be incorrect. There is no target of target, or an aggro ui, such as is found in other mmo’s. Whether or not they add this functionality in the future remains to be seen.
Dragons are so mind numbingly stupid (stand in one place and auto attack). If there is any one thing that is broken with this game it’s the dragons, on a kitten timer at that. Zero challenge, faceroll skill involved, absolutely the same exact thing every single time you fight one in the same exact place on a clock. A legendary process it ain’t. I feel more challenged from a skritt.
Not sure how doing the exact same thing for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes is fun. Dragon fights are mechanical and offer very little player input besides “stand here and auto attack or use bazooka 1” I enjoyed it the first time, but the tenth time? The twentieth? Got old real quick. The only reason people do them after that many times is for the chest, not fun.
They need to get rid of the current dragon encounters, make them roaming, use an actual mob model instead of a building model, and make them dangerous and unpredictable. Make them crash DE’s, low level zones…hell, any zone. I’d be hilariously happy if they attacked cities. And don’t put em on a frakkin timer.
There is no corroboration for the party damage helping you tag mobs. This is anecdotal evidence the same as the drops increasing by group size.
We should ban females from existence, because they make men horny.
Oh, you have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Females don’t make gay men horny though
Gay men acting feminine does though, oddly enough.
I’ll be honest, I just don’t get the loot fixation in this forum. Not sure if its gamewide or just here though. I’ve just never “needed” so much coin to enjoy any game. Still don’t.
Loot has always been whatever it is. ((shrug))
I’m not bothered by the lack of reward as much as I am by the lack of consistency in rewards. Take, for example, Dragons, where all you do is attack a building model for five to ten minutes and are rewarded with a chest versus other, more challenging content where there is no reward except for a possible drop from the mob itself, such as the Champion Abominations in Orr.
It’s fun, but there should be a reward. Other content of that length usually has a chest at the end. That this does not, but the Maw does is jarring. Both are about the same length, and about the same difficulty.
There seems to be a misconception as to what the video and WP’s point of view was. It wasn’t to introduce traditional quest lines in place of or in higher importance of DEs or Renown Hearts. It was a way to make the areas that aren’t visited such as towns and parts of the open world which are not focal points of events relevant to the general player populace, places where DEs and Hearts wouldn’t fit in. By putting simple quest mechanics into some areas to make them seem more alive and expand and build upon the lore of the Guild Wars universe it does make a better game experience. As to why he is relevant or not, that is a matter of personal preference. I find his videos to be informative and well conceived, and not full of the usual personal hyperbole that is commonly found on the youtube platform.
I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance
Well, his videos are really well put together and he has some provocative things to say. He is one of the few people I put any stock in when it come to GW2 from a fan perspective. Watch the videos, make your own call. He is correct that the game needs more things to draw players into cities and unused areas and it needs to expand its lore and story base to make it feel alive. But I feel they are aware of these things (the dev team), and that they will iron it out eventually. They created a huge wonderful background, now it’s just to wait to see how they improve and flesh out what they have created.
Question: What happens when you finish the quests? Does it go back to being hollow again? Even with a game that has been around for 8 plus years (like another mmorpg we all know) eventually you finish it all. People are expecting too much too soon from this game.
400 dollars huh? Dell optiplex 755 plus Radeon 6670 will allow you to play everything on medium for under 400 dollars with an average fps from 30 to 50.
I can’t argue against the fact that if there is a vertical tier, people will want to move up it. It’s part of human nature. I enjoy having a plateau, a vertical climb to a constant. The introduction of Ascended was and still is controversial to some players, I found it so as well when it was introduced.
The strict definition of grind is objective and can be summarized by just saying any repetitive action an individual finds onerous. But what actions are actually a “grind” are subjective. I can not see the daily as becoming a grind in and of itself simply by adding a greater reward to it. In your opinion, if they had added 50 silver to the daily, would it have become a grind? or is it simply because now you have to associate it with an in game mechanic you may take offense to? Both would be examples of vertical progression, one in terms of gear, the other in terms of gold (which could also be gear).
Were people doing dailys before? yes. Were there umpteen billion posts saying dailys were a grind before the introduction of laurels? No. But now that you can actually get something for playing exactly like you did before its a grind?
You don’t play exactly as you did before the new dailies. With the new dailies you play for the new dailies. If you don’t you won’t achieve them. That’s pretty straightforward.
I don’t. I play the new dailies so as to get the new dailies. The old dailies were largely a product of of just playing the game…as it should be.
I play the game exactly as I did before. I did my dailys before everyday for the karma and 5 silver. They want to give me laurels now? Great. It didn’t make the dailys more of a grind, it’s the exact same process (well different process now, which was sorta stupid) takes 15 minutes to half hour. It added no grind, except in your own mind.yes, you are playing the new dailies for the new dailies not as a byproduct of simply playing the game. That is actually a statement of the problem with the new dailies, but you would have to understand gaming and reward to know the difference.
I find it amusing that you know why I do something better than I do. Game theory and skinner boxes are also pretty easy to understand, even for laymen, which you assume me to be. Perhaps you should enlighten the rest of the class with your wondrous knowledge of why we are all now doing something for a totally different reason than we were before. Hint…we have always done it for reward.
and what is up with the misquotes, I never even said half the stuff that is in those quotes
What Anet has done with the new dailies is move the grind from FotM to open world PvE. You are right that no one complained about the grind before with the dailies, but they are now. Think about the intent of laurels. It is a new currency to buy higher powered gear. You chase stat inflation with laurels. You grind to get them. That’s why you now see ‘grind’ in connection with dailies. It’s impossible for people to miss it even if they don’t fully understand where it’s coming from, i.e., vertical progression. Grind and Guild Wars really don’t go well together and that’s why players notice it and complain about it.
If the process of the dailies have not changed (only a bit), then the only thing that makes them a grind now, that they were not before, is player interpretation. Adding additional incentive now makes people think of them as a grind, when nothing has actually changed. People wanted incentives to play, Anet gave them incentives, players get upset and call it a grind. I think if Anet caved and gave everybody a Legendary for logging in, someone on the forums would pipe up and call it a grind.
Precursors should be a guaranteed drop…somewhere. Either from world complete, you get to choose one. Or from finishing all dungeons, or jump puzzles, or wvw goals, or spvp goals. Something that covers everyone. Then make legendaries and precursors Bind on Acquire to account (honestly, being able to sell and buy precursors and legendaries is one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen), so they stop inflaming the populace. Increase drop rates of lodestones by a percentage or three and give them out in the temple chests (bet that would make more people run orr, and do the events out there) (not the dragon chests, why would killing a building model on a timer be legendary at all) and leave the rest alone. Would still be Legendary to acquire one, increase world participation, decrease gold worries, and not destroy the economy. Personally, I couldn’t care less about them though.
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No one should ever get a precursor from a Dragon Chest. Dragons are so mind numbingly stupid (stand in one place and auto attack). If there is any one thing that is broken with this game it’s the dragons, on a kitten timer at that. Zero challenge, faceroll skill involved, absolutely the same exact thing every single time you fight one in the same exact place on a clock. A legendary process it ain’t. I feel more challenged from a skritt.
The problem is, this game isn’t WoW (thankfully) but still, the gold grind is very apparent, and the bigger question still…how to fix it? After all, most of the really rich people in game right now, are either massively hacking/exploiting/botting/lucky? or playing the markets exceptionally hard.
Its WoW lite, sure there may not be the HT but many of the quests/jobs/classes are extremely similar but I digress. The solution is simple. “Quests” need to reward more copper or even silver during the lower levels(1-20). The players need to feel comfortable investing in a profession instead of penny pinching just because they haven’t done every daily and quest in said area.
Or a stipend system ala Final Fantasy 8 comes to mind. For example; special quests you complete add more to your daily stipend. This would still be a sort of “lite grind” but at least its to further advance how much zamolians you could get, basically you decide your level of payment.
Devaluing the gold won’t make the things you want to buy with it cheaper, the price will go up as more gold is introduced to the system. What does everyone want to buy?PRECURSORS Precursors should be a guaranteed drop…somewhere. Either from world complete, you get to choose one. Or from finishing all dungeons, or jump puzzles, or wvw goals, or spvp goals. Something that covers everyone. Then make legendaries and precursors Bind on Acquire to account, so they stop inflaming the populace. Increase drop rates of lodestones by a percentage or three and give them out in the temple chests (bet that would make more people run orr, and do the events out there) (not the dragon chests) and leave the rest alone. Would still be Legendary to acquire one, increase world participation, decrease gold worries, and not destroy the economy. Personally, I couldn’t care less about them though.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
Were people doing dailys before? yes. Were there umpteen billion posts saying dailys were a grind before the introduction of laurels? No. But now that you can actually get something for playing exactly like you did before its a grind?
You don’t play exactly as you did before the new dailies. With the new dailies you play for the new dailies. If you don’t you won’t achieve them. That’s pretty straightforward.
I play the game exactly as I did before. I did my dailys before everyday for the karma and 5 silver. They want to give me laurels now? Great. It didn’t make the dailys more of a grind, it’s the exact same process (well different process now, which was sorta stupid) takes 15 minutes to half hour. It added no grind, except in your own mind.
To you, it is not grind, since you are doing the same thing. On the other hand though, there are also casuals, like myself, that choose to play 4 days a week due our work or education. With the new laurel system, casual people just can’t keep up with the rewards. Being forced to play each day definitely IS grind.
Were you forced to complete the dailies before? no. Why do you feel you are now? Because they decided to give you more rewards for the same thing, you now feel like you have to do it? That’s not a design problem, that’s some kind of personal thing.
Also, I’m “casual” whatever that even means anymore in GW2, at least in WoW i knew what a casual was. You didn’t belong in the “ZOMG!!! you have to be on every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday from 2 pm till 10 pm to raid or we’re going to come for ya!!!”, you were a casual. What does that mean here? The same? A time investment? I’ve seen wildly varying definitions for casual in this game, ranging from If you only pve, If you only wvw, If you don’t do dungeons, If you do do dungeons, If you’re not worried about your legendaries, If you like jumping puzzles, If you play solo, If you named your toon Kittenchops. I have no idea. I play a couple hours a day, some more on weekends. To me, that’s having an enjoyable time.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
Were people doing dailys before? yes. Were there umpteen billion posts saying dailys were a grind before the introduction of laurels? No. But now that you can actually get something for playing exactly like you did before its a grind?
You don’t play exactly as you did before the new dailies. With the new dailies you play for the new dailies. If you don’t you won’t achieve them. That’s pretty straightforward.
I don’t. I play the new dailies so as to get the new dailies. The old dailies were largely a product of of just playing the game…as it should be.
I play the game exactly as I did before. I did my dailys before everyday for the karma and 5 silver. They want to give me laurels now? Great. It didn’t make the dailys more of a grind, it’s the exact same process (well different process now, which was sorta stupid) takes 15 minutes to half hour. It added no grind, except in your own mind.yes, you are playing the new dailies for the new dailies not as a byproduct of simply playing the game. That is actually a statement of the problem with the new dailies, but you would have to understand gaming and reward to know the difference.
I find it amusing that you know why I do something better than I do. Game theory and skinner boxes are also pretty easy to understand, even for laymen, which you assume me to be. Perhaps you should enlighten the rest of the class with your wondrous knowledge of why we are all now doing something for a totally different reason than we were before. Hint…we have always done it for reward.
and what is up with the misquotes, I never even said half the stuff that is in those quotes
(edited by killcannon.2576)
Were people doing dailys before? yes. Were there umpteen billion posts saying dailys were a grind before the introduction of laurels? No. But now that you can actually get something for playing exactly like you did before its a grind?
You don’t play exactly as you did before the new dailies. With the new dailies you play for the new dailies. If you don’t you won’t achieve them. That’s pretty straightforward.
I play the game exactly as I did before. I did my dailys before everyday for the karma and 5 silver. They want to give me laurels now? Great. It didn’t make the dailys more of a grind, it’s the exact same process (well different process now, which was sorta stupid) takes 15 minutes to half hour. It added no grind, except in your own mind.
Were people doing dailys before? yes. Were there umpteen billion posts saying dailys were a grind before the introduction of laurels? No. But now that you can actually get something for playing exactly like you did before its a grind?
People instead of making 10,000 different threads about this can you please only write in this one? It is well developed and expresses the main problem with this game.
You created a new one when others were already around, and now you’re upset that someone else did it? Classic
I can’t speak much for the other points as everyone here seems to have done a well enough job on that already, but IMO the gold grind is a bit much in this game. In fact, I’ve pretty much reconciled that my toons will never see more than maybe one or two exotics of any kind that compliment their particular builds. For example, for my Necromancer’s build, I would require an exotic scepter with rabid stats. Well the only one available(below 100k) is Lidless Eye, which is a whopping 99 gold. I’ve only ever had 10g at any one time and that took roughly a month to acquire. If I bought gems, given the exchange rate last week, I would have needed to shell out $95 to be able to afford it. I know that people do this, but I can’t personally rationalize spending that much on a single in-game item, just for the stats.
I would run dungeons and such to try and get gold/items but the problem with that is I don’t have the gear to do so as it requires me to spend massive amounts of gold(or karma for a few particular items) to get it. Feels like I’m stuck in a Catch 22 with nothing I can do about it. Personally, this is more likely to push me away from the game rather than rev me up for a long intensive grind that spans months and months that in the end will only result in a marginally lacking reward as the toon would have only acquired ONE item. By the posts I’ve read, I know most of you had 500 gold and 300k karma by the time your first toon hit 80 and had them in full exotics, but I’m definitely not that good and I really don’t get how so many of you guys managed that. So, for now I’m just playing just for the sake of playing as “finishing” or completing a toon or even having a good toon seems an unreachable and futile goal.
This is …I don’t know what this…what? 99 gold for an exotic scepter? I can make one for under a gold, you can max all crafts for way under 99 gold and make a full exotic set. I don’t even know….huh…what? Seriously? I will go right now and put an exotic scepter on the TP, hell I didn’t know there were people who would even consider paying that much.
Edit: After a quick search on the TP I found quite a few exotic scepters in the 5 to 6 gold range, not sure what “Rabid” stats are though. Found Carrion and Rampagers, which are both good stat combinations for necro. What exactly were you talking about again?
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If you are comparing the two games, I assume you are a fan of GW1, and most likely aware of what type of game it was. It is also logical to believe that since you were a fan of said game, you would have followed news and been up to date on a GW2 release, therefor knowing that GW2 did not follow GW1’s mechanics or gameplay to a large extent.
People who did not play GW1 were fully aware this was a MMORPG, as it was stated many times over the games life cycle and promotional material.
The whole argument of " I thought I was buying GW1 part 2" has no basis in fact.
I played GW1 actively and watched some gameplay videos of GW2; it was far from obvious that GW2 would be a conventional MMO. If I really looked hard, I suppose I would’ve found quotes from the developer about the “shallow power curve” and “raising the level cap”. Oh well, caveat emptor I guess. It’s not like only a few people felt baited though, the announcement of vertical progression divided opinions. I’m just presenting the arguments against GW2’s design direction for those people who haven’t left yet.
I feel the same as you about the addition of ascended gear, I posted more than a few times during the days leading up to the Nov. patch about my feelings on it. From what I have seen the addition of that gear tier has brought more divisiveness into the community than anything else, which people stated it would indeed do. But with the current patch as a first step, I hope to see ascended become more accepted over all. It’s a great game, but it is still very early in it’s life cycle. With this MMO I can forgive or look aside a great deal, simply because for 60 dollars there are very few games out there with this much content, and fun.
NWO has almost nothing to do with D&D, matter of fact most NWN fans hate it. Check their message boards sometime.
Sad that no one checked the maths of the original post. Without even digging deep into the post the money spent vs the return is not reported. 662 gold spent on buying rares from the TP, and op stated he then sold all exotics back to tp. A conservative (very conservative) estimate on sales of the exotics would be about 450 gold (with a very low average of 6 gold per exotic or so, if it were a named exotic, could be upwards of 100) That would put money spent at around 200 gold, not the 552 stated. Also not taking into account any rares that may have also been returned on any combines, saving them from being bought. If just two of the exotics were named, or if a few were of above average quality, this would in turn have netted a net gain instead of loss. All besides of which doesn’t take into account the making your own rares instead of buying them.
And this is just casually looking at the OP.
And yet, NO precursor for 552g. Cheers for the Blessed Mystic Toilet.
@Edit
No seriously, I hope they bring a DECENT challenge to this 1/4 of the legendary with the elusive Scavenger Hunt, it is their chance to show some respect to their playerbase; if something is very difficult to attain, it must be difficult not grindy, something grindy ISN’T difficult… omg it’s just grindy, they are not SYNONYMS.
And please, don’t even start it if it’s going to be buggy or squishy (like Simin in Arah p4).
As stated in my post, he would not in fact have spent 552 gold, and most likely made gold on the Mystic Forge. If you are losing money to the Mystic Forge, all you have to do is take a step back, do some research, and make it work for you.