Guild Wars 2

Tiffany.8576:

I agree, the Shatterstone buff is ridiculous. Needs a nerfin’.

Hey, don’t troll shatterstone! … I could land it once!!!

DH > D/D Tempest

DH < Staff Tempest

shinreigari.7318:

I loved my charr ele, but i was missing some human animations sometimes. So i created a new ele, and now i love her look

Nice idea on the pants!

Look at all this guards gathered together, cute.

I had never played Guardian, yet I see this is a great idea, variety is always good!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor

Saddly not sPvP only, some has requested it as reddit has it… or so they clame (hate reddit usability so never put a foot on it unless a game update announcement.

I think the issue is that there’s a subforum for those kind of topics.

Kyon.9735:

With all the builds I tried, I’ve always had a hard time against decent thieves. Even traiting for stone heart doesn’t help that much because as we all know, camping on earth is just prolonging your death while it doesn’t give any decent kind of offense.

I even tried playing WH, both Power and/or Condi, and it’s worse than before as expected. Having to choose between Vit and Toughness to get healing power (plus the removal of Cele) with no weapon skill that cleanses or grants immunity, I’ve become a sitting duck once my stun breaks are on cooldown. It’s just I’m bad or the weapon is really bad.

As of dealing with thieves, the bunker build(look above) had that problem you mention of dealing no damage, but I was using staff, had to change to d/d to counter that effect, also added fiery greatsword as an elite so I can camp on earth while dealing decent damage, but this last is optional depending on how many condis oposite team is running. There’s a certain kind of thief that counters the build alltogether and is the kind that just spams cc on a nice high damage dealing chain.

Second build (cc) deals with thieves (a single one at a time tho) a lot better, the cc chain +blindness disable the thief for enough time to undload enough damage to either kill it or leave it under 25% forcing them to run and hide.

Edit: cc thief has problems againist the second build because it triggers traited shocking aura

ErazorZ.5209:

kuritsutian.2987:

In short, it is proven that ele can still beat a necro despite win/loss ratio which seems to be affected by skill …

Is further discussion still necessary or some sort of guide is in place?

I disagree completely. Aslong as a necro has somuch access to chills. And chills hardcounter ele so hard the game is not dictated by skill whatsoever.

Sure there are builds out there that work in 1v1’s against necro’s these days. But thats frankly all they do then, kill necros/condi. Thats it.

It has no legitimacy in any form of actuall PvP gameplay, due to other classes being able to just jump you, since your entire traitsetup is setup to deal with chain condi and burst condi while trying to dish damage.

Also i’m not trying to advocate for necro nerfs specifically, my goal is to balance ele and necro engagements. It just so happens to be with my current build necros really are the only thing that hardcounters as is with allot of variations of other builds. Atm any teamgame where there is no necros the game seems fast paced, where people die fast if they dont understand the basics of there class. At the same time some skills are definatly hitting too strong, but its workable due to kiting.

If you have any suggestions on howto make the necro vs ele matchup better, without nerfing necro or overbuffing ele please do share your knowledge. (note that my biggest complain is the chilling. Im fairly certain if necro’s had less access to chilling OR that elementalists had more to deal with chilling (besides getting trapped in multiple traitlines) or generally get a sustain buff SEPERATE from traitlines. I’d be totally down with it.

Agree somehow to some points, but differ in some others… in general when I said possible, didn’t mean favorable… so far, for me is kinda a 30-40% success rate on killing necros (2 out of 5 if alone, 3/5 with help) and is affected by skills cause sometimes you see very good necros … not to mention that power necros are favorable for ele.

As of dealing with chill, I don’t equip “Soothing ice” but “Stop, drop and roll” instead, combined with the usual regen/shout cleanse .. all in water trait alone. (not using DS anymore but some clain is still usable).

Agree on Mender being the best substitute all around for cele amulet, loosing on condi damage, having a sage as the obvious alternative.
The build looks nice, tried something similar (cleansing with cantrips) and seems to work perfect in short battles but for me kinda fell short on longer battles because of cantrips cooldown… I tried witht an amulet with no healing power tho, might give it a try with this and check again … amulet kinda matters more than everything else as long as you keep water trait.

I am runing 2 builds:
- Bunker D/D (earth/water/tempest) with stoneskin and cleansing on shout+regen with mender amulet and soldier runes.

- Lightning rod cc + burst S/F (air/water/tempest) with cleanisng on shout+regen with mender amulet and soldier runes.

In short, it is proven that ele can still beat a necro despite win/loss ratio which seems to be affected by skill …

Is further discussion still necessary or some sort of guide is in place?

Stallic.2397:

So this isn’t core ele and the build is different, but i drew the idea from this forum and it’s pretty fun. I am Air, Water and Tempest with scepter/focus. I use the shout heal, and the glyph elite.
7-9 are signet of air, earth shield and arcane shield. So you can see how i like my defense on those abilities.
The dps is great due to tempest, the elemental helps out especially if it’s a lightning conjure since it stuns enemies.

As for the specs I tweaked a few things, but all in all, thanks for the recommendation! I’m having a lot more fun with this build than when I was using dagger/focus

Sweet! made posting it worth!

Don’t think it’s a matter of starting from scratch, new modes are always welcomed, I like the new one, would be nice to have more maps… if this new modes should be included in leagues … maybe.

If regeneration stacked on effect rather than duration we could be talking about a fair “Boon oposite to condis” argument.

So in the past I decided to bury this build and never mention it again … … but this weekend was bored of playing the bunker ele and wanted to give this another chance … this time leting the vanilla go and taking the advices provided in this thread…
so, no more cantrips… no more lightning hammer… no more tornado :P and more important… no more Paladin Amulet (self discovery) …. if I am going to use auras, might as well benefit from regen given by 1K healing power.

The build now looks like this:

With Mender’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Healing Power
560 Precision
560 Vitality

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdn0XC9XiVYCOYCcYiFJAT4OGAOhExgdQNwtxGZzsA-TJBFABAcCAu9BAAVZgi2fAA

Usage is common knowledge by now as in terms of timing shouts for cleanses and when to use which….
most important mention is that now… with the air overload, some squishy thieves die in a cc chain as it follows, … Use comet as an opener, switch to air, cast blinding flash, cast gale, lighning strike (as you approach) to unload a lightning strike while enemy is down… this alone takes down most squishy classes depending on build… at least hurts enemy by a lot while being practically untouched. Ingeneral this tweak survives way better on teamfights providing nice spikes and blinds for downed oponents helping the cleaves. Also gives important support on teamfights by the means of auras and regen while aoe condi cleansing. I gues smore testing is in order and if someone want’s to help me with this, would be much appreciated.

Sunshine.5014:

Laraley.7695:

Axialbloom.8109:

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

There is no way you would not have lost to a reaper. You would have been frozen and nuked down, just like everyone else.

With Diamond Skin? Lol no.

Do you realize Diamond Skin is now on struck only? Also, most hits from the Reaper apply more than one condition. With tons of cover conditions, you can’t cleanse the chill. As soon as you fall below 75%, which doesn’t take long, it becomes a useless trait.

I’m happy to duel Reaper vs Ele with any Ele who thinks they have a chance against Reaper.

She is refering to old Diamond Skin…. before balance patch 01/2016

Dh are really annoying on point, but playing around it is not a big deal … For me the biggest problem of the traps is not the damage but the cc, poping some stability fix it so in general I think DH are fine….. cool feature is that somehow they combine pretty well with necros, … whenever I see a necro and a DH, I see death … better to stay away from that, … whatever stability attempt to avoid the traps get corrupted to an endless cc chain and condi bomb :/

I don’t see that a skill can be dodged is an argument to say that the skill shouldn’t be tunned down a little if it’s dealing too much damage, … yes you can dodge it, easily on 1v1 while facing the DH, but with that range is easily to hit it on the back or while on a teamfight… some rework for me will do it, reduce cast time, add more cd.

I agree with the OP as the bug fix of earth atunement was the change that hurted the ele the most in terms of survibability. Also agree with the weird selection of title (dps kill) when the problem was earth overload… the thing is that this week I realized that the best way to build an offensive ele is by boosting their def, …. the most it lives, the more damage it can deal… For sure Air overload buff is flashy in paper and more than agree that it’s usage in PvE will be golden, but here… one may think, oh, I’ll use the flashy Paladin amulet and kill all paper thieves that cross my path but truth is, you get wrecked fast… .. tried different skills, traits… and nothing seemed to work … gave up and said … “DPS ele is dead”…. lastnight had a relevation… well… we use to dps with cele, why not … use Mender’s for dps?…. the results where highly unexpected, while I kept the water/tempest traits to deal with healing/cleansing, changed earth to air for whatever specific dps build … and well … an alive ele deals more damage than a dead one.. played cc lightning rod with S/F, no conjured weapon, but all auras instead and the spikes where enough to take down the thieves and hurt the other classes… specially useful on teamfights since no longer died to focuss fire while providing good healing to teammates.

Long story short, I feel that Mender’s amulet is the new cele amulet for ele, making several builds (that doesn´t require condi damage) …viable.

Dahkeus.8243:

kuritsutian.2987:

BATMAN.6794:

Absolutely stupid. Thiefs are now Steal then auto attack and win. How is this balanced? FIX your FIX ANET. Pathetic.

Lol, not laughing at you, just imagined the “real” BATMAN saying this xD

Poor Batman having trouble with lowly thieves. I’m sure the Joker would get a real laugh out of that one.

Now I’m picturing some thief running away after he stole Batman’s utility belt.

So, I guess that’s where we got Scorpion Wire!

LoL

BATMAN.6794:

Absolutely stupid. Thiefs are now Steal then auto attack and win. How is this balanced? FIX your FIX ANET. Pathetic.

Lol, not laughing at you, just imagined the “real” BATMAN saying this xD

Axialbloom.8109:

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

There is no way you would not have lost to a reaper. You would have been frozen and nuked down, just like everyone else.

There are some players just pushing agendas being vocal and over exagerating things.

PowerBottom.5796:

Glenstorm.4059:

Very interesting. Will try this out.

How does it fare against Reapers though? All those boon corrupts on low cool down…

not as easy as before, but it’s still favoured for Ele if you play it right:

- save blind for shroud 5
- Use knockdown/daze + phoenix once the stunbreakers are gone and he is just out of shroud or has no pulsing stability left.
- Kite and apply pressure with air overloads, don’t eat auto’s or whirl of the shroud.
- Use cleanses right (this is pretty important, try to use earth focus 4 against necro scepter 3.
- try and stay topped off (at least above 75%), don’t be afraid to leave the point shortly to resustain with water-overload.
- dodge heal signet….
- don’t stack too much of your boons by just spamming aura’s, w8 out the boon-conversions.
- keep the CD’s of the interrupts in mind, it helps a ton to properly use your overloads.
- LoS’ing and kiting is pretty much the key to any 1v1, since Air overload doesn’t care about obstacles and if you stand on point just when the overload finishes, it’ll keep storming havoc onto the point.
- Don’t be afraid to cancel the overload if the necro uses spectra armor. I often fake an overload and cancel it in the very last moment to bait out spectral armor. This also works against glint heal for the rev btw. It’s no big deal to loose part of a 10s CD compared to a full 50s CD for the necro. This MU isn’t gonna end very quickly, so using CD’s effectively matters a ton.

Great tips +1
thanks

Fortus.6175:

kuritsutian.2987:

I really don’t see the importance of “Being in the Meta” thing … as long as you can play propperly your class and do what you intent to do, who cares what the rest of people do with your class.

Well lets see, imagine you work 40 hours a week, in an office, and every 2 weeks you get paid lets say $100 for argument’s sake. You are pretty happy with it, you can pay all bills with it and what not.

Now, the rent went up and the food bill went up and the gas also went up (powercreep).

Your salary is reduced to $80 instead of $100.

You find out that your coworkers who were also making $100, now make $120.

You confront your boss about it, but he tells you:

CLUELESSGUY.2987:

I really don’t see the importance of “Being paid the same” thing … as long as you can propperly work and do what you intent to do, who cares what the rest of people make as their salary?

Would you really be ok with it?

the flaw in your silly comparison is that they weren’t earning $100, except clueless guy2 that was earning the same, others were earning $70, now cluelessguy 1 and 2 are earning $80 and rest got $10 increase, except for some that got maybe $15 ….. so now with no outliners, those shy extra $5 makes everyone else rage for not earning the same even some has the nerves to complain why aren’t they still earning $100.

Besides that, that was not my point, … my point is, if with an Ele, I can still be successfull and win (let’s say reach legendary) … why do I care what is pro league playing? … makes no relevance to me. Even if I get to become a proleaguer, using my Ele …. do I care if other proleaguers pick it? not at all

I really don’t see the importance of “Being in the Meta” thing … as long as you can play propperly your class and do what you intent to do, who cares what the rest of people do with your class.

A good thief should only die once againist a single player.

Kinda everything works on PvE, most common thing is to have it damage oriented (power or condi (mixed)) or celestial (Recomended) for a more balanced build. If you plan on raiding, you’ll need very specific ascended prefferably builds … in short berserk + some viper trinkets.

What game mode?

Agemnon.4608:

Keadron.9570:

Ele isn’t a hard counter to anything atm. It can’t survive a burst and even specd into full damage doesn’t do enough to put down anything but a thief (lots of people playing thief now who don’t know the class well enough)
Yes an experienced thief will know how to get out of the burst was meaning the ones who aren’t

The funny thing is last patch I killed eles on my thief but on my ele still got killed by some thieves though I still won some duels but that was usually against careless p/p thieves who’d unload when my magnetic aura was off cool down on top of the burning I’d inflict on them.

So in this patch logically thieves have an even better chance against eles when in the previous meta it was just about an even 1v1 as long as the ele went staff.

While on ele, use stoneheart, helps with thieves a lot.

Personally I like this squishy thief meta :P …problem is hitting them tho … and keeping them in the battle… it’s like “whack a thief”

I say, allow class swapping, but don’t let them pick a class that it’s already in the team. Everyone wins! … if they stack from beggining, algoritm deals with it.

Valkyriez.6578:

Play DH, lay some traps, watch 90% of thieves walk into them and explode. Even better, duo with a necro friend with marks just to make sure all the thieves die fast.

This duo is cancer >.< faced them a couple of times … 100% loss rate and not even a thief … (I guess only good ranged class could deal with this … other than normal teamfight

Even when class swaping breaks match making euristics, the reason to keep this “score based on team class composition” was because not many players swap classes, this is fine for now, but I can see people adapting and learning to get advantages and this practice will become more common specially now that it’s being mentioned. Would be better to start thinking on a solution now rather than waiting for the problem to happen.

Role selection (not class) on PvP for matchmaking on soloQ, that includes being able to pick a role for your build)

Same, I usually go with traveler … fast escaping while on earth + water sometimes is a lifesaver. :P

Ha! I was running the same build! (only heal skill differs) camping on earth most of the time, it work wonders, problem is even with 1k power it dealt little damage and no condi pressure at all…. what I did and improved it a lot was to switch to D/D and use Conjure fiery greatsword as elite … being able to deal damage on earth!

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

I already told people in this thread and in my original post that when you face 2 reapers, you cannot run away from them, because that would make either you completely useless, or your taking a thiefs role on far from someone. Thats not what you want as an ele. Second, the reaper will seek you out, because you are an ele at the same time. Ive had it happen to me allot already in the past 3 days.

Nice. Can you explane us why did you ever decide that you should be able to stand on point against 2 reapers? Just because you want to?
You don’t like to be focused? Get used to it. Reapers were the second target right after DH in every match during S1.

L2P and adapt – that’s my only advice.

2 reapers are not as hard (still pretty hard) because their condis stacks, so a cleanse gets rid of both, if they are coordinated tho, they will spam you with less cd and your cleanses and will loose faster, you are not supposed to survive on this situation anyways, what you gotta do is take the most out of it .. (hold point for longer, focuss on one and hurt it the most you can, … on the other hand, if you cannot do anything at all, … then try to look for your closest teammate and try to go 2v2 …

what I find harder than 2 necros is a necro and a DH together…. the DH cc is so annoying when you have no stability or it gets corrupted by the necro, stacking different kinds of condis makes cleansing almost impossible. .. >.< faced this pair a couple of times and lost 100% of the time in little time …. (using d/d so no range)

o.O … he is saying that bad strategical thinking is punished as it should, not complaining … nor sarcasm.

100% agree! never been as fun for me

Entenkommando.5208:

Supporting your teammates in a group based game is a waste.. Sorry but I can’t follow your logic.

O.o

Wanna keep it a secret, but can pm if still interested.

ErazorZ.5209:

kuritsutian.2987:

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

Yeah cleanses definatly help with sustaining there DPS. But still the sponge HP is still a tough nut to crack as a low hp ele. Even if you can clear all the condis, you gotta have the dps to actually get it downed, whilst still having enough life to sustain through necros traited downstate attack.

Agree, yet, damage from condis take effect over time (slowly unless bombed), which is countered by regen (Sage amulet better at this than Celestial), the problem is, that’s why timing the cleanses is important is when regen gets corrupted into poison. (At this moment you use a shout to get rid of it and reapply regen + prot) … Power damage is another story but certainly the ones comming from necros shouldn’t be a problem on a bunker build.

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

lol, troll ….

In the past, necros still had a way to beat eles.

Hard…yes…. possible…yes

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soul.9280:

Evan, the last night of League play, I saw lots of people swapping classes during the 90 seconds wait period before the match started, and I was playing in the Legendary division against many of the top players. And I did see a surprising number of people who queued as thief or warrior and then switched to something meta.

I fully expect higher-skilled players to swap more, but that is a much smaller portion of the player-base.

An important question i: Would all high-skilled players be OK with profession locking if we could ensure no stacking?

How about only allowing a swap for a class that has not been chosen yet?

Lord Kuru.3685:

No pay for HoT ==> no win.

That’s precisely P2W.

Would you guys stop spamming that if we say… ok you are right and move on with our lives knowing the real meaning of the p2w expression?

brannigan.9831:

More then just Chronos took fairly significant nerfs (Herald and Elementalist) and they were deserved nerfs. Where they went wrong was buffing Necros and giving Thieves the wrong kind of buffs. Its still better then before though.

Agree with this! 100%

as ele I could complain about the buffs because I get killed by certain classes… that is because in the past didn’t had such a problem, … even tho ele was not OP, had little counters and it’s not too balanced, one could say it’s the same case of chrono bunker.

What you mention sounds a lot like real balance, …. if a class/build (this case Chrono bunker) was causing imbalance (OP) and they nerf only the specific build causing this problem, leaving other classes untouched (not this case) would be good balance… too many changes tho, so is kinda chaotic, nobody knows what will happen in the future until it settles.

Yeah, would be nice to find that well balanced dps viable build that was intended by the designers with the amulets change… all I can think about now is go back to D/D and twitch it… thing is dealing with condis now fills our tooltip skills slots. Maybe give thenew DS a chance while equiping healing signet to try to be up the life tresshold by spamming? …complicated…. maybe will opt to give the bunker build I found so far a way to deal more damage… fiery sword? D/F instead of staff? need to keep testing … tell me how your build goes please!