the 1% is only 5 pre vs pug, can’t make a choice based on the 1%, probably desition was taken from non mentioned data such as 4 pre vs pug … or 5 pre vs 2 pre + pug, etc, etc, etc…
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I think Ele has the upper hand on the subject… not cause aura share, cause shout, cause rebound, cause weapon skill and overload grants it and some are aoe.
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Come to PvP, we have cookies! … lol, maybe not cookies, but got two ascended drops last week alone (armor box and trinket) … as of crafting the stuff yourself, do it slowly, no need to grind, can play several different game modes/maps and still get mats to craft them.
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taking more samples would change at most +/-3% on class distribution, so no biggie the statistic can somewhat show us current class popularity more than class distribution, you can say popularity affects distribution. To bad it was centered only on the thief and only measured class distribution, I am more concerned about the skill of players… meaning putting skilled players along with less skilled in order to compensate and balance teams… this would happen if they are matched by the average alone without having the standard deviation into account.
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By far highest support (boons, condi-removal, auras, healing numbers) and unkillable in a 1v1.
I saw this build from tons of competetive players and smaller tournaments and I thought it would suck as well, but it’s insane. Yes, you have no DMG, but in all other aspects, it’s pretty much godlike.
Also, reapers won’t do anything to this build.
*Edit: It’s actually that good, that I’ve seen quite a few ESL-players that normally don’t play Ele practice it, likely for the upcoming season finale.
Not gonna happen, just a tryhard attempt to keep elementalist alive, you should find some build to dont get easily rekt, but thats all.
That build sounds pretty exciting btw
Heavily doubt it, regarding the fact that I’ve seen players that normally don’t play ele at all practicing the build. I’ve also seen it in smaller US-tournaments.
Yes, it certainly has sth. to do with the fact that they can’t use 2 engi’s, 2 revs and 1 reaper (no class-stacking in ESL), so the build probably isn’t Top-3, but it’s IMHO pretty close to it in the right composition.
But if you don’t believe me, w8 until the season finale where every team is gonna run one of these eles, guaranteed. :P
omg, that is so much the case!!!! hate so much when that happens, I even think some ranger watched that video, … he came at the very last second and gave me the gw2 version of t-bag … >.> ….
+1
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yeah, thing is that condi ele is more like a mixed ele, even better now with the new amulet, works well with scepter as the power damage alone is spiky and the cooldown low. Lot’s of practice to land that dragon tooth, but not as hard on some modes/maps that require attuning for instance… or while people try to rez.. .. or againist silly DH that likes to stand on top of their traps :P … I wonder if some still think it will be a surprise to find a trap under them when someone tries to engage in close combat… who would be the silliest in that situation? … (the one without stability/damage mitigation :P)
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Thing is that there’s no ele build that carries players by itself atm.
Ah, so you ele still want to be OP??
On the contrary, I am happy with the current state of ele… saying this often gets some hate for ele vocals asking for buffs but can’t be helped, … strategic thinking would be good that most people that used to be carried by previous famous build leaves the class so it becomes unpopular that way less counters will be around.
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The problem is the chill, a good Necro always times it applications the moment you cleans the previous one, you get the next one, you are forced to burn your CDs and problem is not damage part of the chill but cd increase for Ele, we can’t beat any body with 20 s attunement cd or 30s utility CDs. And geomency is not enough necros with wandersers have 5 s chill duration %33 reduction will bring to 3 s when you are perms chilled that doesn’t help that much.
And regeneration compensate for condi damage,, regeneration ticks for 130 for no healing power how much chill ticks for Necro 600 or more?
And considering a good Thief only search +1 ’s and not 1vs1 when Thief engages you already burned some of your CDs so if you are not extremely lucky, like earth attunement is not on CD or fire aura is available, it is gg to thief.
So yes, condi tempest can beat baddies, but it has near 0 chance against a good player, specially if he is not surprised that an Ele plays condi build
I think the key is in taking “Stop, Drop and Roll” over “Soothing Ice”, while the cd is 10, fills gaps between the shouts cd and water overload.
Edit:
… as of thief, yeah… on team battles strategy differs, kinda have to focuss thief first… you will probably be first pick for them so dodges, obsidian if available, blinds, magnetic auras, etc come handy to deny some of the thief damage while teammates (or you if instacast scepter) deal with it and force them to retreat.
Personally don’t like condi ele, everyone is kinda forced to build thinking about dealing with conditions, and using a single condition for damage (burning) can be tricky unless you time them well, on group battles much harder.
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It is all fine and dandy but I like to hear your stories about when a Necro and Thief sits you during a whole match.
Even a max condi cleans Ele does not.have enough condi cleans/healing power to recover against Necro condi burst and loading a Necro with burning is not a good idea anyway.
To make the things more fun when a thief opens on you when you are %50 HP.
I remember the days before the buff to celestial how Phantaram cried from frustration from this combo.
Only the removal of Cele can be managed but buffing Thief and Necro is death sentence for Ele, for the PVP ing I did for last 3 weeks I saw so few Ele and they were not relevant for the outcome of a match.
Timing your condi cleanses and pondering when it’s worth to cleanse over just withstanding it with current applied regen is the key… can effectively solo a necro with my ele … getting better at it every day… … kinda have to see the battle as a boss battle with 3 stages …. 1st: deal as much damage as you can until he goes in reaper mode … …2: in reaper mode he is resistant to hard cc … so, best way is to soft cc (blinds, slows, weakness) and kite until srhoud wears of… stage 3: as soon as he leaves shroud …use your cc chains…and spike … don’t let it recover or you’ll have to go back to stage 2.
Edit: Thieves are the easiest classes to beat with power ele as they are so squishy…. just don’t try to outsustain their damage… you probably won’t unless you’ve got stoneheart.
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If you think I’m wrong or if there’s something else to discuss feel free to do it, it’s what forums are for. I don’t mind being wrong at all, everyone is welcome to agree or disagree if they have constructive criticism. “Stopped reading here” does not bring anything to the discussion unfortunately.
I should add that any build works well against inexperienced players. So if you read that there was this one guy with a certain build that won a 1v2, that’s not representative of the current situation and should be interpreted as an exception to the rule. I can easily make a video and put it on youtube with a condi elementalist in PvP (just showing the wins), and just because I can do that it doesn’t mean that it’s viable.
Totally agree with this, what I don’t agree with is claiming to know “the only viable build” unless you try every single possible combination on every possible scenario in order to be able to say so.
A more humble approach would be… I tried this builds and only succeeded with this one.
Playing several hours on previous metas can hinder a more global view of the class because, first attempt would be to try old proven to work meta builds in order to short the limited testing time… which I think is fine, but due to all changes not only in classes but also mechanics there’s new factors that count into place, even the general vigor could be life changing.
Edit: Also I think it’s safe to put into consideration, failing with a build alone is not a reason to discard it. In my personal limited experience, if I find a build that I am comfortable with that adapts to my play style, I give it several chances, tunning it changing things here and there on what I consider is failing. Sometimes it’s not even the amulet or the utility skills… it’s the rotations that needs to be tunned. Sometimes there’s no miracle formula againist certain class, because for example sone rangers transfer conditions to pets, some doesn’t, so the rotation I found doesn’t work as well…. to master a build takes several days …. I wouldn’t try a build and say it doesn’t work. There is of course builds that simply require so much changes that turn out to be a whole different build… but I think it’s a process that cannot be trivialized and that many players won’t experience since they wait until metabattle posts what’s popular and addapt to them.
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The only “viable” build at the moment is fresh air
Stopped reading here.
Edit: Don’t mean to be rude… but reading the forums, apparently either I am playing another game or the opinion is very subjective to the playing style, so I will stop advocating/attaking the elementalist as a class… which I find great and fun to play, over everything versatile and adaptable…
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yeah, I don’t see the “tempest over thief” being a crazy thing. I still think a thief is needed for mobility and tempest isn’t the replacement, yet tempests can either roam or bunker depending on build. Personally I think the thieves are the most squishable class atm and have to rely on their ability to escape to be able to perform.
I like your enthusiasm, your passion….but it’s time to face reality
No matter what you try, the ele essentially it’s still the same thing and players still go through the same strategic process : stack as much defense as possible and try to outsustain your enemy, basically the same gameplay seen since Sept 2012 when GW2 released.
The elementalist is an horribly designed class or rather I’d say that the design is outdated and pointless, in direct conflict with the rest of the game, everything has been held together with the inclusion of few overbearing traits.
Healbot tank support..that’s all.
Yes sage/mender earth tank with stone earth + 1 cantrip/2shouts …dozen of players reached the same conclusion weeks ago even before the 26th jan
The questions and answers are still the same:
-can you roam? …No, you get outrunned by revs/thieves/druids/scrappers
-can you bunker?…No, you won’t hold vs 2 decent players for more than few secs without losing the point
-can you far assault?….No, your dmg it’s too low to kill anything within 20/30s ( time before thief/rev reach its home point)
-will ele be used this coming ESL?…Hell no..you won’t even see a single one
-what about leagues? ..If you win it’s because your team good to start with, you won’t carry anybody and your presence is never necessary
Thief may be squishier when using marauder but…it has far easier time getting away from danger where you ele will have to facetank dmg and hope your team will kill anything before your invulnerability run off and all your shout/heal are on CD…because then you will go down as sorely you won’t be able to run away ( assuming you have an “useful d/f build” anything else will have to disengage and run the sec it get focused)
I could be like you..keep playing an earth tank sage/mender and pretend everything is fine..but really what’s the point, it can only get worst unless players(ele) wise up and start to make precise and concise demands while dropping the class
Yes, I’m talking about a profession boycott , you can either keep playing an earth tank and pretend everything is fine or drop the profession entirely to send a clear/strong message to the devs, that the class needs reevaluation.
I don’t understand, are you trying to tank and roam with the same build? your comment is based on the premise that eles can only do one thing … “stack as much defense as possible and try to outsustain your enemy” which is certainly not truth hence the rest of the comment holds no value.
There is a viable roaming build I am using that doesn’t get overruned by any of the mentioned class … not saying it’s invincible… depends mostly on build rather than class.
As of the ele as bunker part…. I don’t think anyone can say “my ele is a tank because I have invulnerabilities” … they are far from reliable with the long CD’s … most use I give them is to negate damage on clear focuss (with cc) or to disable all DH traps. You can only say you can bunker something if you can hold a point undefinitively to a 1v1, 1v2 and sometimes a 1v3… still affected by builds of oponents… what bunker can survive a cc chain while being hit?
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yeah, I don’t see the “tempest over thief” being a crazy thing. I still think a thief is needed for mobility and tempest isn’t the replacement, yet tempests can either roam or bunker depending on build. Personally I think the thieves are the most squishable class atm and have to rely on their ability to escape to be able to perform.
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I also got in a match with 4 mesmers + me (ele) … that was before new queuing patch. My guess is that they are trying to make the most battles with a single player per class, but since there would be always a remaining group, a match is punished (takes the bullet for the team) with the class in excess. … this is just a theory of mine tho.
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why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.
Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.
If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?
Will the stats mean something without context? No.
I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.
The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.
Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.
Context please, it’s important.
Altho I agree with several things you said, the idea of the statistics is to give conclusive data witout having to explore the whole scenarios using a sample population. despite that you seems to agree now that the damage dealt by condis is much less than the one done by power… was all I was showing… You also said that saying that you took 200000K damage from condis means a lot, but then again.. ratio… if you took that damage, for condis, but took 3 times as much from power … then it means nothing. … that’s the ratio thing I am talking about…
Damage taken by condis can be affected by several things, play style and role being one and build being a most important fact… a good excercise would be trying to play a match with no condi cleanses and see this ratio. … that is tho, unpractical.
As of playstyle of my particular build, it’s a roamer, hard cc chain while dealing high spike damage on a single target (hence the low damage statistic), some support is provided but not the main focuss.
Sigh, once again.
Overall low condition taken doesn’t mean anything if only one or a few classes have over the top condition spam. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.
Once you face 5 condi reapers and take close to zero condition damage, come post a screenshot. Ratio means kitten nothing, really.
mmmkaaay :v
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why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.
Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.
If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?
Will the stats mean something without context? No.
I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.
The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.
Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.
Context please, it’s important.
Altho I agree with several things you said, the idea of the statistics is to give conclusive data witout having to explore the whole scenarios using a sample population. despite that you seems to agree now that the damage dealt by condis is much less than the one done by power… was all I was showing… You also said that saying that you took 200000K damage from condis means a lot, but then again.. ratio… if you took that damage, for condis, but took 3 times as much from power … then it means nothing. … that’s the ratio thing I am talking about…
Damage taken by condis can be affected by several things, play style and role being one and build being a most important fact… a good excercise would be trying to play a match with no condi cleanses and see this ratio. … that is tho, unpractical.
As of playstyle of my particular build, it’s a roamer, hard cc chain while dealing high spike damage on a single target (hence the low damage statistic), some support is provided but not the main focuss.
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Most people say they are bad…. if you are trying to pure dps, yes, they are bad, if you are trying to support, yes, they are bad… scepters or wands are for spike damage… on that matter they are good, insta damage that is hard to dodge and can even be cast during overloads.
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why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.
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19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.
Condi OP!
Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.
On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.
With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.
What ratio? You think removing 240 condi from self and 92 from allies is a lot? Cute.
lol ignorance is a bliss
ratio
?re?????/Submit
noun
the quantitative relation between two amounts showing the number of times one value contains or is contained within the other.
In simpler words for you, means that no matter the scale (low, mid, big) the ratio will be about the same … in the case of the picture, explained to you… only 7% of the damage came from conditions… wich means, condition damage is not a problem …
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I also like how things are currently, more variety indeed .. and I play Ele, even while bunker is still viable, I am playing a new role I couldn’t before thanks to new amulets, having lots of fun with it! no class really feels op by themselves, more like good teamfights combinations.
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Yeah, there are so many nice trenchcoats out there! but they fit the rangers the most, they aren’t very thief friendly …. stealth while having strips and belts everywhere is kinda tricky. Grandma usually talks about the wide selection they used to have at Cantha no matter what faction she belonged.
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To solve queue time on most popular classes for soloQers how about disabling the ranked button while there’s too many of that class Queued, the button will become available once the possitions get filled (a feedback expected waytime would help here so the player can decide wether to switch before queuing
… if disabling the button is too much then something that says…. “You are X in line” while X decreases as matches are decided. ..practically a queue to the queue. :P
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Never said irrelevant, … said I preffer the WH ones, yes, there are situations where staff ones are useful, but there’s times too that staff ones get’s interrupted over and over. In general staff is good at range but lame in close combat.
I still preffer WH for support , boon sharing alone cuts it for me … specially now that aura i sless likely to be picked.
Lol, how is staff lame at close combat? You can actually do more than at range, surprise. Staff gets interrupted? Lmao, really. I’m out of this thread.
Forgot to mention heal over time is less important now in a bursty meta … see ya.
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Never said irrelevant, … said I preffer the WH ones, yes, there are situations where staff ones are useful, but there’s times too that staff ones get’s interrupted over and over. In general staff is good at range but lame in close combat.
I still preffer WH for support , boon sharing alone cuts it for me … specially now that aura i sless likely to be picked.
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For support I am kinda prefering Warhorn over staff.
The heals are somewhat better, improved magnetic aura, blind on downed, boon share, aoe cc.
When not support, other offhands are better-
I find it amusing people say the boonshare is so good. It’s useless. It copies only might and fury.
The heals are better? Where did you get thatt idea?
Staff has superior cc than warhorn in terms of support. You get Staic field and Unsteady ground, enough said.
Some blind? Yeah, that’s not enough to compete with staff in terms of support.
I guess you forgot about Sand Squall
As of heals I find staff heals only good on point, very situational due to duration, radious and casting time… warhorn ones, besides the knock back are for more dinamic team battles, good for characters scaping from aoe damage … etc …
As of cc really good option for staff is static field, I steady is just alright, everyone knows how to deal with it by now… cyclone interrupts and destroys projectiles… still my personal prefference.
I should probably tell you that the gamemode in this game is conquest, you prolly didn’t realize that. Chasing water field or having heals that cover the point? I think the choice is clear.
Let’s think about why staff was meta while no one used wh for a moment.
Well in that case you probably don’t know how to use Unsteady ground right if you can’t get any interrupts with it.
Bah, you always wants to argue with me for the sole purpouse of contradicting, cherry picking here and there, once again I said it’s my opinion trying to avoid your endless antics … about the whole conquest thing, I am guessing you have never fought a DH on point….. just because in conquest doesn’t mean you have to stay on point… that idea is very bunker meta biased … and even while bunkers are viable, they are far from what they used to be … deal with it already!
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For support I am kinda prefering Warhorn over staff.
The heals are somewhat better, improved magnetic aura, blind on downed, boon share, aoe cc.
When not support, other offhands are better-
I find it amusing people say the boonshare is so good. It’s useless. It copies only might and fury.
The heals are better? Where did you get thatt idea?
Staff has superior cc than warhorn in terms of support. You get Staic field and Unsteady ground, enough said.
Some blind? Yeah, that’s not enough to compete with staff in terms of support.
I guess you forgot about Sand Squall
As of heals I find staff heals only good on point, very situational due to duration, radious and casting time… warhorn ones, besides the knock back are for more dinamic team battles, good for characters scaping from aoe damage … etc …
As of cc really good option for staff is static field, I steady is just alright, everyone knows how to deal with it by now… cyclone interrupts and destroys projectiles… still my personal prefference.
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Queue time is only a problem for soloQ players, don’t know how valid it would be to force teaming up … kinda would be worst, dunno …
And actual solution would be the profession locking itself, by only being one counter in play, certain underplayed classes/builds may become viable. It is just merely speculation tho.
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+1 Agree, same rules should apply for ranked, don’t care much about profession swaping as long as it doesn’t allow to pick a class already in the party.
I can only see one complication with this and it is the waiting times for those players with the most popular classes (if any),
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Focus offers no pressure so…better to do little than nothing at all, yeah kk that invulnerability is nice..but that’s it, a single skill to save focus from the trash can, in the end both got their uses, it’s just that more defense not always translate to better performance
Focuss offers best cc options for ele in my opinion.
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