Guild Wars 2

Deniara Devious.3948:

WvWvW is still lacking when it comes to rewards.

The WvWvW reward tracks are very nice, but they progress slower than the spvp ones. Why WvWvW reward progress should be slower?!?

The reward tracks are mostly filled with utterly useless loot. I mean utterly. How many thousands more tomes of knowledge I need to click through? And how many more green gear salvage? Players want materials, especially the materials needed to make ascended ones. WvWvW is lousy source of tier2-tier4 materials. I really don’t care about rare or exotic, unless it has a good looking skin. Ascended is the only way to go.

There is still lack of things you can purchase with WvWvW related currencies. I got 36k+ badges still unused and like 1600 proofs of heroics, thinking what an earth to do with them.

Please give WvWvW players more reasons to come to WvWvW! The recent decision to remove crafting stations was surely a move towards wrong direction. Instead of giving us less reasons to come to WvWvW, give us way to obtain legendary and ascended back item, ascended weapons and armor etc. Now fractals is the easiest way for ascended back piece, but why a WvWvW player should be forced to play fractals for it?!?

Removing crafting was RIGHTdirection. WvW= not a farm. Think of WvW like a basketball game. The incentive to play WvW is to play WvW, just like the incentive to play basketball is to play basketball. You do not want quilters setting up chairs to sit in and quilt in the middle of a basketball game going on. The incentives to play WvW instead should be keeping players engaged in nonstop strategic, challenging, fun PvP action the entire time they are on the map.

To bring players into WvW we need to have our cities server based and a server wide chat implemented. Allow wvw player to recruit from their server again . WvW needs players who get involved in their community on Teamspeak and join their servers websites so they can see what is really going on and not run around missing 99% of what is happening on their server.

DeWolfe.2174:

scerevisiae.1972:

Second choice would be a new map based on obsidian sanctum, ie: undergound, with large cavern areas, and supported gliding.

Other ideas?

Because it’s not bad enough we’re getting stuck again with a flipping Desert, now you want us to spend hours in a literal hole in the ground??????

FFS!

Yea, I don’t think some here realize what made players so angry about the DBL… the keeps being too closed in and boxy already made many /unistall so now they want to add more of that?!

too big, too vertical and too boxy were the main complaints with the map design, then there was the issue of how different classes could be played in the various zones and how they could not use their skills due to topography.

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

We have already had guilds and individuals posting here in the forums they will be leaving the game again when the DBL returns, so we have an idea of the impact it will have due to those who left last time, and those who stated they will be leaving again. We are just hoping it will not be on the scale it was before.

Which guilds?I haven’t seen any say they will leave because of having mixed BLs. And anyway what would they do for the 3 months the DBL was in rotation with the other option.

They were posting here in the forums they were leaving when DBL returns either way when they had the first mixed BL poll.

Dawdler.8521:

lil devils x.6071:

Not across 3 borders, that is irrelevant. I am talking about when you Hop to any borders.

Then dont kittening hop to desert then.

It’s as simple as that. That’s what people do with certain alpines daily – home probably get 90% of the borderhopping while enemy borders get quick jabs that are either recapped soon after or defended successfully (because previously mentioned defensive borderhopping).

Desert itself is irrevelant. Coverage will be what still matters the most. And in that coverage, there are a number of players that will be on desert. The more coverage you have… the more players will be there. Loss of coverage on one map – like 10 out of 35 jumping with you to desert – means a gain in coverage on another map. In this case, wherever people remain.

You are seriously overthinking a type of asynchronous map design that we already know is in effect 24/7 in current WvW and has been for 4 years. It’s called EB. The only difference is that instead of putting people off, it attract them like mosquitos to an electric bug zapper.

Has EB killed WvW yet?

No, it is not as simple as that. If they remove the DBL from the score and treated it like EotM that would be an option, or removed PPT and let us just PPK, but that isn’t an option when it is our job to paper all their upgraded keeps. We are not some small guild that roams around doing whatever. Our server relies on us to take out big fully defended targets and get the more difficult jobs done. There is a reason why we always have offers from servers to try and get us to move there..

If we do not hop to all maps, we do not play. That is how our guild plays the game.
You cannot play the game mode properly without including all maps as part of the battlefield and hopping there. When we play, we keep track of every keep on every map to monitor it’s upgrade status to determine how to best control the battlefield and force our opponents to respond to which ones we hit and the order we hit them. My guild ALWAYS hopped to the DBLs, however, most would not follow. It puts much more strain on the guilds who are willing to do so.

You are suggesting the large dedicated WvW guilds stop playing the game the way it was meant to be played. You are mistakeningly thinking that players not being on the DBL means they will be more effective on other maps, but that doesn’t add up due to targets being taken out of game play but are still affecting the score. My guild will still be hopping to the DBL, though the vast majority of the players in my guild hate the DBL but begrudgingly go anyways as we always have. It just makes the game less fun for them, so will probably affect how long they play the game eventually. When players are not having fun, they don’t continue playing a game that negatively impacts them and eventually will move on to one that they have more fun playing. That impacts the games long term health though moreso than the immediate with the players who play on it just to be able to play the game the way they always have, but are not enjoying their time spent doing so.

The concern immediately is for servers who do not have that option, and will be rage quitting when not enough players show up to defend their structures when they call for help, and I am sure Anet will be getting an earful from players again who will be blaming the DBL for their losses.

Why would EBG kill WvW? That is the most popular map by far. We have more problems getting people to get off EBG to respond to something else than get them to respond to calls there. EB didn;t throw off the balance of the game though because all teams had their Home BL advantage+ their corner of EBG advantage. Instead now, it will be 2 teams have their home BL advantage and one team will either have an advantage or a disadvantage depending on whether or not the players on their server will go there. All servers still have their corner advantage in EBG.

orenwolf.1953:

People say they’ll leave the game all the time. It’s cries for attention and resistance to change.

Do you think all those DBL votes came from nowhere? People want to play there and will play there.

I know choice and change can be scary, LDX, and “the sky is falling” is pretty much the call of someone after any vote, but how about we wait to see what happens before we declare that WvW is, again, for reals this time, dead. Hm?

They did leave last time, and it was awful, so many guilds left and haven’t even returned over it. Some came back when they brought back ABL, scroll back through the forums and you would see them coming on here thanking Anet and announcing their return. But the thing is, I know no one that wanted to just keep ABL, Players wanted to just wait on ABL while they made a new map, an actual good wvw map . Players were just going to wait for that to happen on ABL.

Change isn’t scary, only bad change is. Good change is great and everyone cheers and players do not leave the game in masses. Players have been asking for change for a LONG time now. I think you seem to misunderstand. We WANT new WvW maps, we want great WvW maps that keep players engaged in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on the map. I asked them not to have Delete DBL as an option, but instead asked them to take it to beta and let players vote on when it is ready to go live so they can fix the topography issues and other problems before bringing it back in the game since they said they could not fix those issues as long as the map is in the live game.

It took them like 4 years to fix the spawn trebs in ABL, players unknowingly just voted to never have those issues on the DBL fixed at all. Players have wanmted a new map from the beginning, they just didn’t want that broken map.Anet said that if we did not vote to keep the DBL, they would not give us another map. Players didn’t vote to keep the DBL because they want to play on it, they voted to keep the DBL so we can hopefully get an actual WvW map instead. All you have to do is read what players actually posted to see that.

On one side we had players saying, “Get that Crummy broken map out of here and bring us an actual Good WvW map that keeps players engaged in nonstop PvP action the entire time we are on it or we wont play your game anymore!”

On the other side we had Anet saying, " If you don’t take our crummy map we will not make you any more maps."

Then you have this poll saying :
You can havepart of game to play all the time.
or
You can have a whole game part of the time.

Players chose to have a new map than have no map and to have part of a game to play all the time instead of whole game part of the time

Players chose varied maps, not because they want them. They chose them because they know making them all DBL for 3 months will kill the game like it did before, but worse because players have had enough. Don’t mistake that for " wanting them". It is making hard choices instead.

All updates should:

• Increase game population
• Increase player satisfaction,
• increase game longevity

If it does not do that, it should not have been implemented. If you make the right change, players are not angry, they are cheering. That is how you tell the difference. Players overwhelmingly want change, they always have, they just want it to be in the right direction.

Next update needs to be fixing the code causing the game fatal errors and crashing over the last few days that numerous players have been experiencing since one of the updates this week..

Entenkommando.5208:

It’s not like the score matters at all after all this time without the patches. Also you basically explained yourself that we don’t know what impact DBL has on the matchup because we don’t know how players handle it.

Players will to where they personally have more fun. The more variety the more tastes are satisfied, the more players join WvW. -> Good WvW.
And who knows…maybe we will even have a 3rd border to choose from in a far future.

We have already had guilds and individuals posting here in the forums they will be leaving the game again when the DBL returns, so we have an idea of the impact it will have due to those who left last time, and those who stated they will be leaving again. We are just hoping it will not be on the scale it was before.

What is not known yet is which servers have the most players willing to go to the DBL, as they will be more likely to win now due to the new DBL win factor being added to the game mode. Whoever has the most players willing to go to the DBL will most likely win as long as PPT is substantial in the score.

The players that actually determine whether or not their server wins are players who play on all maps, not just the one they like the most. Winning does matter if you want to change tiers to change who you fight, this would be much less impacted if they removed rewarding PvD and allowed the score to be more PPK based than it currently is. If you do not win, you do not remain in a tier to get good fights and are left to PvD and face roll less organized players on the lower tiers.

Dawdler.8521:

lil devils x.6071:

The issue is the sheer number of players who refuse to go on it at all.

Across 3 borders, yes. That was the issue. Mixed borderlands is just 1 border. There will be people there. Will it be as many as on alpine? Probably not. Will it matter? Most definetly not. People that love desert get every desert lover focused on 1 map -> a more populated border. People that refuse to go to desert (and probably would have stopped playing if rotation won) get focused on 2 maps instead of 3 -> more populated borders.

Either way you swing it, everybody win.

Not across 3 borders, that is irrelevant. I am talking about when you Hop to any borders. Players do not just come on and play one map, they look at all maps as one battlefield and hop from each one. You keep all objectives paper on all maps to force your opponents hand and make them have to choose between which structures to keep and which to let go. I never play on one map, or just 2.. I play on all maps every time I play. We will still have the same issue I stated above:

Running a 35 player squad on EBG. You tell them to go to ABL1 to paper a keep. 25 players go with you, and you paper it. You tell them to go to ABL2 to defend a keep, all 25 go and you are able to defend it. You tell them to go to DBL to defend a keep, you hop and only 7 come with you, and you lose the keep instead. GG

That is what happens. You do not get any MORE objectives simply because you have the same 3 other maps you had before. You went from having 4 maps to being effective on at once to only having 3.

When you ARE the group that hops to all maps for offense and defense, it just makes it so you have one less map that you are capable of doing so, it does not change the outcome of the other maps, as it is the SAME players who are hopping to all maps using it as one battlefield, not separate. You are thinking that it somehow means the players remaining on the other maps that do not hop are being effective there. That is not the case either since they just roam around back capping camps until the commander comes back, not papering keeps, and if you had already papered all the keeps before you left, there isn’t any more for them to be effective with..

What happens instead is either:
DBL home server has players that will go there = DBL will be defended and no one will take their stuff.
DBL home server does not have players that will go there= DBL belongs to whaetver server who does have players who will play there.
ABL= more players from all servers in the match on the 2 remaining ABLS fighting it out for what is there but generally being less effective than before since more players on map to aggro and increase time it takes to accomplish goals. The other maps will stay the same regardless of what happens on the DBL.

It is the same group that hops between all maps usually including the DBL.
When fighting you actually hop from one keep fight to the next to the next to the next.. not like they are really “separate maps” it is all one battlefield, just that section of the battlefield is a guarantee loss for all servers who do not have players willing to play on it.

The only way you would make it so you could be more effective on the other maps would be to take the keeps off the DBL and put them on Alpine since playing on Alpine suddenly does not put more objectives to capture on the map to be more effective there..

If they did away with PPT, as I suggested and just give a buff to players fighting over objectives instead, it would be balanced since players PvDing on the DBl will not impact the game balance at that point since PvD will no longer be rewarded.

Cecilia.5179:

If they could find a good central objective for bl maps instead of making a terrible one and deactivating it/leaving it forever, I would be happy to see a new bl.
New map ideas in general:
Kaineng City: Urban battlefields are always very cool. This could be done in an ebg or bl style and still be awesome.
Volcanic: Like the fire keep but on a large scale. It could have an eruption event that occurs during prime time several times a week.
Jungle: I don’t like this because then our 3 bls will be eotm.
Cavern: this could be cool as long as it wasn’t too confusing or confined. Small tunnels for havocs and large main tunnels for zergs.

See now I think A cavern would not be so bad if it were more open like Dredge on EBG, but not taking up too much of the map. Small tunnels would be a problem because it creates too many escape routes. It is hard enough trying to chase a guy all the way through the big tunnel, but if they had small tunnels as well that would just make it too easy to avoid combat. Since there is no collision detection among players, large groups would still have the advantage in a small tunnel vs a havoc anyhow so it doesn’t actually have the same strategic impact it would have in a game where players cannot stack on one another. Yes it forces them into a more confined space, but it does the same to the havoc group, just the larger group has more fire power.

I thought about the idea of a volcano map, but I would want that one to replace the desert map instead.. ( they could put the volcano in pace of their broken event on DBL haha!)

I am all about wanting a map with the rainbows, flowers and unicorns. With so much ugliness in war, it would brighten up the place to have our battles in a cheerful, happy environment ! XD

Now if they made the keeps with vine walls but making sure you have easy access to all the levels of keeps like you do on the ABLS ( the keep designs on the DBL are a whole other set of complaints) you could make a jungle/ sylvari style Keep that would be pretty cool. They just need to think of keeps as more like Garrison, and less like DBL keeps in layout to keep them fun.

Yargesh.4965:

lil devils x.6071:

Yargesh.4965:

From the posts on the subject of removing crafting stations it is clear that a large fraction of forum goers do not want new people nor do they want to be bothered by people who do not 100% wvwvw accessing their game.
Your ideas would be horrible to them.

WvW players WANT new Players, they don’t want players in WvW that are not there to play WvW.

Things like Crafting, farming, map completion are HORRIBLE. IDEAS ( I don’t think I can stress that enough) because that doesn’t make players come into WvW to become part of the community and actually play WvW, that just sets up a knitting club right in ht middle of the basketball court during the game. Just like Basketball teams want basketball players, WvW wants WvW players, not knitters, or quilters, or rock collectors coming on to the court during the match.

The best way to advertise WvW would be by making cities server based again and making a server wide chat so WvW players can talk about WvW and recruit from those and bring in players to actually play the game mode not come onto the court just to start chasing butterflies instead of play the game.

WvW PvP ads in gaming magazines and sites would help as well as long as they focus on the PvP aspects of WvW and not on rock collecting..

The Players coming in to WvW need to be players who want to get on voice coms and join their server websites as soon as they get there so they can start really learning how to play the game mode immediately and find out what it is really about instead of wandering around blind to what is really going on in the match. Getting involved in the Wvw community is the easiest and fastest way to get access to the many server resources available to help new players.

Cool, a rather verbose way of saying what I said though.

No, you said they only want players who 100% wvw accessing their game mode. That isn;t true at all, we have numerous PvX guilds that play WvW in WvW and then have PvE events outside of raid times. That is what you gain access to on the servers team speak and website so that is why they should make sure to get on coms and involved with the community as soon as possible to get set up with people to help them . And even though yes, my guild is a 100% WvW guild, for example, we still have our members get together outside of WvW to help our members get set up with the gear they need by doing group PvE events to help them get the supplies needed to craft their legendary and ascended items and get the runes, sigils and food needed as well. Outside of raid times, there are always groups running to help with other things as well, so no it is not 100% WvW all the time, though that is our primary objective.

Teraphas.6210:

lil devils x.6071:

Teraphas.6210:

I would like to see a shift away from borderland style maps with a “home” server and instead shift to more maps being in the EB style.

Ideally moving to the point where we have 4 (or hopefully more) unique maps.

The maps are already inheritedly biased towards one server unless they are copy and paste 100% symmetrical. It should be anets job to try and keep which side each map favors as even as possible within each map but also across them as well.

I agree EBG styled map would be better. EotM map is garbage for WvW and if you thought players raged over the DBL that would make it even worse.

One thing they should make sure they so not do with a new map is make it too vertical/ boxy or closed in as they did with the DBL if they want players not to rage next time. Caverns/ giant trees ect would really anger people even more so than the desert did because they want more realistic battlefields not an amusement park ride.

They need to focus on it being open, being able to use numerous strategies, attack from all directions, giving players more options for strategic play rather than removing them all. Open, flatter, Lush, and direct routes to everything will make the map more well received than the last one. Players want good fights, not gimmicky fights.

Not sure it needs to be open and flat per se.

The major flaw with desert in its original form was that all the action took place in a ring around the map and didn’t go into the center unless the event was running. With the oasis event gone and the smoothing that occurred before the switch to alpine really opened the center of the map as a transfer point. That is much improved over having to run the full perimeter to reach the other side of the map.

Alpine to me is too small with the focus of majority of conflict occurring in the bottom half to 2/3rd of the map . Draw a circle which passes thru the Lord’s room of all 3 keeps and that is where most conflicts occur minus the circle connecting the ruins.

Desert to me is slightly too big. Again draw a ring thru all 3 keeps and a second to contain the oasis and between those was the conflict zone. It was also the only reliable movement path and zerg either moved clockwise or Counter. Unfortunately most all ran the same direction leading to few chance encounters. The smoothing did seem to help and allow you to ‘hunt’ enemy forces by cutting thru places you couldn’t before or could only have used in one direction before.

EB to me is the best example simply because stonemist works to have people care about the center of the map vs avoiding it or just passing thru like desert and alpine.

Tldr to me the terrain can be varied and not just flat and open as long as there are no “one way streets” but more importantly a focal objective to capture at the center of the map and not a map mechanic

The actual number one complaint about the DBL was it was too big, too vertical and too closed off. Players resoundingly said they hated those aspects the most, go read back through the many months complaints on these forums about them and why players would not touch them. So yes, flatter and open are the most important factors here. Center of the map is not as relevant as objectives just being closer together. People do not care as much as to what is actually in the center of the map, they care about the player experience straight out of spawn and the amount of time they spend in the PvP action vs out of it. That is why direct routes are so important with minimal obstacles between getting where you need to go fast.

Where objectives are important as well but not by " center" but instead by strategic value to what is around them, one of the primary complaints about the structure locations was they lacked strategic value. basically what impact does that structure have on the surrounding structures. Being able to hit other objectives from each objective is important as well.

Designing maps from the player experience is better than thinking about things Like “center”, Straight out of spawn, 3 seconds, hit an objective. Why do you want to fight over that objective? What is the impact of owning that objective in relation to the other objectives on the map? How well does each class play while fighting over this objective? In what way does this objective benefit each class’s play styles and skills? How well does each type of player( roamer, havoc or zerg ) play in this area? Is there plenty of room for strategic battles and can the objective be attacked by/from numerous methods and directions to increase strategic options? 3 seconds.. next objective, rinse and repeat. what is actually in the center isn’t as important as to how the map actually plays.

Yargesh.4965:

From the posts on the subject of removing crafting stations it is clear that a large fraction of forum goers do not want new people nor do they want to be bothered by people who do not 100% wvwvw accessing their game.
Your ideas would be horrible to them.

WvW players WANT new Players, they don’t want players in WvW that are not there to play WvW.

Things like Crafting, farming, map completion are HORRIBLE. IDEAS ( I don’t think I can stress that enough) because that doesn’t make players come into WvW to become part of the community and actually play WvW, that just sets up a knitting club right in ht middle of the basketball court during the game. Just like Basketball teams want basketball players, WvW wants WvW players, not knitters, or quilters, or rock collectors coming on to the court during the match.

The best way to advertise WvW would be by making cities server based again and making a server wide chat so WvW players can talk about WvW and recruit from those and bring in players to actually play the game mode not come onto the court just to start chasing butterflies instead of play the game.

WvW PvP ads in gaming magazines and sites would help as well as long as they focus on the PvP aspects of WvW and not on rock collecting..

The Players coming in to WvW need to be players who want to get on voice coms and join their server websites as soon as they get there so they can start really learning how to play the game mode immediately and find out what it is really about instead of wandering around blind to what is really going on in the match. Getting involved in the Wvw community is the easiest and fastest way to get access to the many server resources available to help new players.

Dawdler.8521:

lil devils x.6071:

It doesn’t give the home server an advantage if no one on that server will go there. It ONLY gives the server who has the most players who will play on it the advantage regardless of whose home BL it is.

Sooo… You’re saying it works exactly like Alpine?

Got it.

No because most servers had players willing to go to alpine to defend, unlike what happened with the DBL’s. The issue is the sheer number of players who refuse to go on it at all. For example, you are running a zerg on EBG with 35 players. When you hop to the ABL you take 25 players with you and you are able to defend. When you hop to the DBL though, you only have 7 willing to go, so you are unable to defend. That is the reality of the DBL is the problem.

EDIT: In addition, it caused so much conflict on servers, guilds broke up entirely over it.
Some commanders and guilds refused to respond to any calls made from the DBL at all so there was no point in scouts going there to scout. Then the commanders who would go there often became frustrated because their own guild would not even go to the DBL, they started kicking people and wound up destroying quite a few guilds that way. It was just a mess all around when some players would go there and some would not. It created a pretty severe community divide that has not been resolved that did not exist prior to the DBL being implemented.

Dawdler.8521:

Leaa.2943:

This is absolutely terrible and it is even more terrible that players choose to vote in this plague or cholera poll. It will be a flat out punishment to be the server that gets DBL, which in the end most likely will influence the outcome of the MU.
Might not be a big thing in NA, but in EU were the top tiers are constantly changing, it will hit like a truck. The server with DBL will have so many disadvantages and the rest of us will pile up on ABL maps.

I can not even imagine how this pull came about or how it can be thought of as a good pull. But ok lets go through this again and watch the server with DBL rage for not having players or waypoints or any sort of tactic. It will be fun time to watch the rage flow in this forum again. sarcasm if anyone missed that

And yet the most common argument against mixed has been that no one plays on dbl, thus giving the server having it as home uncontested PPT and a major advantage as they can focus fully on enemy borders (since home is the “default” border after EB when joining WvW, that server often owns the most of it when people loiter there).

Make up your kitten mind.

It doesn’t give the home server an advantage if no one on that server will go there. It ONLY gives the server who has the most players who will play on it the advantage regardless of whose home BL it is.

People just refused to hop to DBL to defend it at all or even recap it on servers that do not have players that will play on it at all. Regardless of whose home BL it is, it is just up to whatever team has players that are willing to go there will have it.

They just need to remove PPT from the game mode all together and stop rewarding PvD and that would solve the problem. Instead when you own a keep, tower, yak, sentry, or camp it gives you an increased PPK and Loot buff while you fight over it, but would score nothing on it’s own. SO if no one goes there to fight over it you get no points just for it sitting there doing nothing. Scoring would only be based on PPK earned while fighting over objectives and PvD would be obsolete. Both attacking and defending teams would receive PPK and Loot for fighting over objectives, just defenders would be slightly higher to make owning the objective more valuable to the player.

The objectives would be more valuable than they currently are because whoever owns them would get best loot in game mode while fighting over them, and PvD would not be rewarded at all solving the balance issues caused by empty time zones and maps.

Teraphas.6210:

I would like to see a shift away from borderland style maps with a “home” server and instead shift to more maps being in the EB style.

Ideally moving to the point where we have 4 (or hopefully more) unique maps.

The maps are already inheritedly biased towards one server unless they are copy and paste 100% symmetrical. It should be anets job to try and keep which side each map favors as even as possible within each map but also across them as well.

I agree EBG styled map would be better. EotM map is garbage for WvW and if you thought players raged over the DBL that would make it even worse.

One thing they should make sure they so not do with a new map is make it too vertical/ boxy or closed in as they did with the DBL if they want players not to rage next time. Caverns/ giant trees ect would really anger people even more so than the desert did because they want more realistic battlefields not an amusement park ride.

They need to focus on it being open, being able to use numerous strategies, attack from all directions, giving players more options for strategic play rather than removing them all. Open, flatter, Lush, and direct routes to everything will make the map more well received than the last one. Players want good fights, not gimmicky fights.

Screenshot from just now:

http://i.imgur.com/jwimZjr.jpg

Though I thought people ranted and overwhelmingly absolutely hated Golem week, some of these ideas are not so bad..
I would like faster movement and no PPT all the time, PPK only would be best :p

No dollies would take away some players fun because all they do in game is upgrade keeps, so you would be taking away the thing they actually enjoy doing and giving those players who like that nothing to do so I wouldn’t want to do that to those guys. They already took a beating over the whole Auto WP thing until they changed it back for them.

Catapults and rams switching may kitten people off who bought or made specific siege due to their play styles.

Most hate underwater combat so you will probably get some rage over that too.

• No siege damage on players would be nice
• No banners
• No airship

Alpine already IS Iceland, minus the volcanoes of course.. Why would they have more snow maps? Players want open spaces, not caverns however, and players hate water fighting because it is so slow.

If anything…Think Spring in Bloom. I want an open pretty, green, lush map with rainbows, unicorns and flowers.

Morte.5916:

lil devils x.6071:

Every time you die in WVW you are scoring for the other team.

Why do you think I stick to EotM?

I don’t think you should be forced to go to WvW at all. It is a game, you should enjoy the time you spend on it. You should be able to access everything you need to play from the game mode you enjoy most. PvE should not have to go to PvP or WvW to get what you need, WvW should not have to PvE to get what we need either. That was what made GW1 stand out from the rest. You could come straight in and PvP without having to ever step foot in PvE and it was great for that. Them removing one of the best features of their games is a terrible move on their part. PvP, WvW, PvE should all be self sustaining to access what is used in the game mode. Playing the game should not feel like " work" or “chores” to be able to get to what you enjoy doing. It should be fun the entire time you are playing.

Often I think people forget that games should be fun for those playing it. For some people, having players attack them and think they suck isn’t fun, just as for some people, killing an NPC isn’t fun. Some like the competitive nature of a mass PvP game mode, some do not.

Anet originally came in with the mindset that it was okay to like different things and not force the other upon players who liked different play styles when they made GW1. The problem they are making now is they are trying to do exactly what made players not want to play the other games that tried to force them to grind to do what they enjoy, all that is going to do is send those players off again searching for a game that doesn’t do that. Changing that just makes players start looking for a game to take their place.

As for learning, if new players become active in the community, join the server website, teamspeak, they find plenty of people more than willing to help them learn. The worst mistake I think a new player coming in to WvW could do is not join the community there as soon as a possible. The players trying to play the game without listening to voice coms are not even playing the same game as the rest of the players as it is drastically different. Non voice com players do not hear any of the commands within the fight, regardless of what position someone plays, they can benefit from listening to what is happening on their server.

People may think it " harsh" to tell them that they need to get good gear and learn to fight outnumbered, but the reality is there are few “even” fights in wvw, and you should expect to be outnumbered and new players are going to have much more fun learning how to fight and live than they are going to have dying over and over and over again because no one showed them how not to and told them to get cheap gear. Players do not come to a massively multiplayer PvP game mode to avoid most of the players in it, they come to fight them and need to learn how to do that .

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So hypothetically, if I were to vote “no” using all my accounts, one person could skew the data enough on a very razor thin line to affect the entire population?

Yes, if it is a close vote. If enough players are doing it, however, it doesn’t have to be a close vote.

Threather.9354:

Maybe its not an issue in NA because you run small groups anyways but if you had faced 80 man Far shiverpeaks blob on home bl everyday last summer with only 30 man defending with queue on map, you would agree that this change is good.

Yes, it was an issue for NA too, across many servers. The change is good, they just need to put some crafting tables in HotM lobby because it can be used by anyone with or without a guild, regardless of their story line/ game progress the same way WvW was being used without losing their place on their maps. I also hope they will remove the other issues that are artificially inflating the WVW population as well so transfer fees and linking will be more accurate. Players that use WvW just to farm or craft are harming the population count and it is being used against the server they are on.

Problem with having the crating stations in guild halls and other areas is it makes them only accessible to people who have those resources already. WvW was accessible to everyone so somewhere like the PvP lobby would be an adequate replacement accessible to all.

DeWolfe.2174:

Tris Apollumenon.6435:

You need to go back and reselect your original vote. The system is set up to allow a user to change their mind.

And yet, how many know this???? Players interested in the results may go back many times to view it. How many use “just show me the results”? figuring their first vote is what’s counted?

Yea, no kidding. I am sure players who come back to view the results will know how that poll works, considering other polls on many sites do not do that. LOL

It is just a mess tbh.

morrolan.9608:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I voted No.

I way prefer that everyone gets the same map.

JQ’s gonna be pretty bad to be on for the 3 months that the desert BL is in rotation if it gets up.

lil devils x.6071:

Surely people can see the problem that if the map itself could kill the game mode that it is far from being ready for the live game at all. They really need to work on the map then let people vote on when it is actually ready and see what happens from there if they wanted this issue to finally be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.

Yes that may be correct however its not an option that is being put up and as has been repeatedly said we are compromising, life involves compromise. To vote for anything other than simultaneous is to vote for the death of the mode.

Yes, but pretending that isn’t what needs to happen and not continuing to let them know just means it will never be fixed. As long as people still let them know it needs to be fixed, there is hope it will one day get fixed. The issue is some of what needs fixed cannot be done in the live game, so they would have to do it while outside the live game. Otherwise we are just saying " It’s okay to leave it broken."

It took like 4 years to get spawn trebs fixed for ABL, and really that was minor in comparison to the topography issues of the DBL.. the DBL will never be fixed unless people let it be known it has to be.

Hexinx.1872:

Devil, I understand about the past history. I’ve been hear, and that’s why I’m a strong advocate of moving forward. This is the best we have had, and while it can be improved, that won’t happen overnight. One step at a time is more the approach I look at it like. Start with what we got and do what we can to help build more attention where attention is needed.

You are right though, I do have strong feelings that alot of players who have played for years who should have valid inputs in this. But I don’t believe that you should completely ignore newer players or current players. It’s not right to just have one group the entitlement, without hearing the voices of the others. Rank 500 is far too high, I mean anyone who sticks around WvW and earns Rank 100, is obviously interested in the game mode, with r500 you are basically saying you can’t take a hiatus, you can’t drop the game for years, and you have to play WvW for I don’t know what 750 hours? Something around that at 2 levels/3hours. What may besurprising is that some people only play the game say 2-3 hours a night and that means it takes them almost 1-1.5 years before being allowed to have input. Sure, add in 1 dolyak kill to offset the eotm crowd, hell make it 10 dolyaks… but then … those players that are taking a hiatus or vacation, or only play during a certain part of the year will be neglected regardless.

Ideally you want to have input from all those crowds, and be able to segregate the data into the player bases. We are no where near that. Neglecting newer players does not mean taking away from your value. But forcing new players to go through what everyone else endured before being allowed to vote on a survey? Seems a little to stern. I don’t know what the happy medium would be, but it surely can be better than punching the rank up to almost silver before being allowed to have input.

The issue is by allowing players who do not know enough about WvW due to inexperience to understand what the different types of players actually need to have included in the game mode to be able to play it can vote to have what the most dedicated players look forward to and do everyday removed from the game. If players have not tried to fight other players on every class in numerous areas on the DBL, for example, they would not know if all their skills can be used there.

In this one game mode, we have scouts, roamers, havoc and zergs, ALL of which are important to the game mode and should be included. Each of those different types of players has things they look forward to come in to WvW to do, and with many of the things that have happened since HoT was released it has harmed many different groups and the goal now is to try to get things back on the right path. Things like Airship, for example, have made it extremely difficult on roamers and havoc to try and take objectives such as SMC, which they could before. Things like the new guild upgrade system took away everything that small guilds had earned and made it extremely difficult if not impossible for them to be able to get what they had back. Things like dragon banners have made it very difficult since those things are abundant to large guilds to access but difficult for the small ones to compete with.

Inexperienced players may not be able to see the value and importance of strategic building placement in forcing your opponents hand by making them play offense when they were trying to defend. They often do not understand that all maps are considered one playing field and that you watch all maps at once to force your opponents hand by making them choose which objectives they are going to save and which they will let go. They do not understand the need to keep all of your opponents structures paper regardless of borderland they are on, or why you want to pull off of one keep to hit another to force their hand. Yes, of course there are still many vets that also do not understand strategic WvW game play, but there are far less of them that lack that understanding than there are of inexperienced WvW players that do so.

Many inexperienced WvW players do not understand why PvD and siege humping is so toxic to the game because they have not seen the end game of this. All they see is if we do this we can win, lacking the understanding of what you get when you win is actually no fights and extreme boredom because everyone got bored and left from doing that already. They don;t understand that players ALREADY did that and decided that ruins the game for everyone playing and chose to stop doing that due to that reason. When you win and you realize you actually lost much more than you gained, it makes it not worth winning at all. Inexperienced players have not yet had a chance to learn that.

What the vets have to offer that the inexperienced players do not is a better understanding of what it will take to keep the game mode alive long term. Without the dedicated players, the game mode dies. Sure new players should always was be offering new ideas, and all of those ideas should always be discussed and considered, not just ignored. But in the end, it should be the dedicated players that have the most say in whether or not they are actually implemented. Some ideas sound really cool, but they may actually kill the game mode due to other issues they create that the inexperienced players would not realize exist.

The past and present WvW players in or out of the game would be notified if they used the same system they used for the surveys they used to create this game in the first place, and Anet used that same system after HoT came out. They emailed ( not in game , but actual email) surveys to the players they wanted feedback from and only those players responded. It was invite only, but that way they are making sure they hit their target audience. Many were not even aware these surveys were taking place, but they did take place and are used to determine the direction of the game. These WvW polls should be done the same way instead and make sure they only send surveys to past as present WvW players, not just people who see WvW as another place to farm nodes or do dailies. Past and present WvW players would be treated equally, not leaving either out, as this system currently does. You can imagine people who left on their summer vacation come back and find out they missed having any say at all are going to be quite surprised, and not necessarily in a good way.

Tobias Steele.2071:

Nothing about this game mode is fair, but if you force another dbl rotation on the remaining players it will kill the game mode. Simple as that.

Surely people can see the problem that if the map itself could kill the game mode that it is far from being ready for the live game at all. They really need to work on the map then let people vote on when it is actually ready and see what happens from there if they wanted this issue to finally be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.

Teon.5168:

lil devils x.6071:

Teon.5168:

lil devils x.6071:

Teon.5168:

Whatever the results, I am going to be really glad when this poll is done, because then this subject can be FINALLY put to bed. Bon voyage, cya later, hasta la vista, baby.

And frankly, fwiw, I think that only players that have a Z in their first name, and a W as the last letter of their last name should be able to vote in the polls.

I hate to break it to you, it will never be done. Every week you will come to accept players complaining about the DBL, either being in the game or not, or rotation, or not FOREVER. Since this was something so divided in the community, it is not ever going to end now.

If there is a mass exodus due to the dbl again, then they will right back at square one to remove it .. again. No matter what happens with the polls they certainly are not going to let that decision kill their game…. unless it actually kills the game mode and everyone leaves anyway.

If they had actually had WvW player involvement prior to making it and releasing it, it would be a very different map.

Oh, believe me, I know. As long as you’re on these forums, this subject will NEVER completely die. It will just drone on and on, like that odd sound one’s old refrigerator in the garage makes that ya just end up getting used to and ignore.

Would you like me to go get the hundreds of player quotes that are NOT ME for you?

Yea, please do, as it will give you something to do for awhile.

Making sure players are heard helps those players, telling them to shut up about it, just runs players off the game. You are actively trying to run players off from the game. There is a difference.

Teon.5168:

lil devils x.6071:

Teon.5168:

Whatever the results, I am going to be really glad when this poll is done, because then this subject can be FINALLY put to bed. Bon voyage, cya later, hasta la vista, baby.

And frankly, fwiw, I think that only players that have a Z in their first name, and a W as the last letter of their last name should be able to vote in the polls.

I hate to break it to you, it will never be done. Every week you will come to accept players complaining about the DBL, either being in the game or not, or rotation, or not FOREVER. Since this was something so divided in the community, it is not ever going to end now.

If there is a mass exodus due to the dbl again, then they will right back at square one to remove it .. again. No matter what happens with the polls they certainly are not going to let that decision kill their game…. unless it actually kills the game mode and everyone leaves anyway.

If they had actually had WvW player involvement prior to making it and releasing it, it would be a very different map.

Oh, believe me, I know. As long as you’re on these forums, this subject will NEVER completely die. It will just drone on and on, like that odd sound one’s old refrigerator in the garage makes that ya just end up getting used to and ignore.

Would you like me to go get the hundreds of player quotes that are NOT ME for you? trying to tell every person who speaks up that it is over doesn’t help the game in any way.

“Yelling at them every time they bring it up isn’t going to help the situation, it only makes it worse because then they feel they are not being listened to. For every player that is run off from this, is a player that takes their family, guildies and friends with them so it greatly harms the games longevity.”

You are actually harming the game by attacking the players who speak up about it.

Teon.5168:

Whatever the results, I am going to be really glad when this poll is done, because then this subject can be FINALLY put to bed. Bon voyage, cya later, hasta la vista, baby.

And frankly, fwiw, I think that only players that have a Z in their first name, and a W as the last letter of their last name should be able to vote in the polls.

I hate to break it to you, it will never be done. Every week you will come to accept players complaining about the DBL, either being in the game or not, or rotation, or not FOREVER. Since this was something so divided in the community, it is not ever going to end now.

If there is a mass exodus due to the dbl again, then they will right back at square one to remove it .. again. No matter what happens with the polls they certainly are not going to let that decision kill their game…. unless it actually kills the game mode and everyone leaves anyway.

Yelling at them every time they bring it up isn’t going to help the situation, it only makes it worse because then they feel they are not being listened to. For every player that is run off from this, is a player that takes their family, guildies and friends with them so it greatly harms the games longevity.

If they had actually had WvW player involvement prior to making it and releasing it, it would be a very different map.

Hexinx.1872:

lil devils x.6071:

…snip…

Yes, actually I would count them if they meet the base criteria. Absolutely.

Base criteria should be min rank (but personally I suggested long ago r100), plus rank up throughout the week the poll is active. Not dolyak kills. I don’t care if people chose only to play once a week, or everyday so long as they hit the base criteria – whatever that is. Personally I say 1 rank because a yak kill a week – the player may as well not be playing – AI bats kill more yaks than that.

No one cares if I’m a math genius – if I chose to only answer 1 question on a test paper of 50, I would only get 1 mark.

Playing everyday is a lose term for logging in and playing WvW – don’t get caught up in in nit picking, I’m not. Also I just said that is what we are doing, not that it is required for base criteria. 3 Legitimate account are still 3 legit accounts = 3 votes. If you chose not to have your family, extended family, neighbours vote, that’s a PEBKAC. Especially if you gave a rats kitten about the future of this game mode.

Anyways, you are more than welcome to discuss this with me personally through a PM. While I agree a lot needs to be done, you get nothing accomplished without taking the first steps. Anet to me has proven they are taking the steps. I’d rather help that and support that.

I need a beer now, I’ll toast it in your honour of this convo – it’s eow for us canadians (fyi – I take everything in constructively even if i don’t personally agree)

The reason for dolyak kills is they do not have to step foot in WvW to have player kills or WvW rank leveling only in EotM. There are no dolyaks in EotM, so may be the only way to determine actual WvW player via easy access data.

I do not even think it should have to be active WvW players, because players came here for years and had their pleas ignored, the first step to moving on the right path would be to reach out to them as well and include them in the polls to show things have changed to hopefully bring them back. ALL of WvW players were ignored for years, then all of a sudden they change this, they should include the ones that they had waiting in line first as well. Many players came to forums and contacted ANet for years to get no response .. at all. Now that they decide to give a response, those should be the FIRST they notify, since they DID actually try to get help for the game mode.

You said you voted 3 times, not that you had them vote 3 times with whatever they want without you telling them how to vote.. there is a difference.

ALSO rank 100 is much too low to rule out multiple accounts. 500 would be more like it due to the age of the game.

Meadfreek.6789:

Re: The poll

I wonder why one side needs to get 75% for that to win? The other side doesn’t. A majority is 50%+1. It’s almost as if A-net really, really wants the 3 month rotation to win. To the point of adding that condition to the other side. Rather than just going with what the majority of customers want.

It is due to that being the decision Anet has already made and they are going to have to back tack and do a ton of work over again to accomplish it to be able to implement it.

X T D.6458:

this is a way of making the legendary process go across gamemodes.

THAT is exactly what set GW apart from the rest and now they are seriously messing that up with recent updates. The primary reason I played GW1 was due to the promise of NO GRIND. You could PvP without having to ever touch PvE To access game content and everything could be gained just from PvP alone. It was one of their strongest selling points for the game model. In fact people were just talking about that being the reason they tried the game in the first place just last night. Making things NOT go across game modes is one of GW most attractive features, messing that up just throws GW in the pile with the rest of the grindy MMOs that players who want no grind have no interest in.

What they are actually doing is removing one of the games most attractive features. They need to do the opposite to bring players back they are running off, they need to make WvW self sustaining, never needing to leave WvW to get what you use in it, same for PvE and PvP.

Hexinx.1872:

lil devils x.6071:

…snip…

3 people play them, 2 of them are minors. I paid for them, built them up, and made the QoL experience of this game easier for them because I do that stuff (being good to others)- all on HoT. Told them the choices, obviously with a personal bias – and voted.

What you are describing is not the same. Unless you are actively playing all 15 accounts everyday … in which case – you are jobless. But even then if you are actively playing all 15 accounts every day I would count you as a legitimate voter if it meets the base criteria.

So then you want me to include ALL of the accounts from my family? Now my family members have multiple accounts as well. There is NOTHING requiring you play any account everyday. Many actual players do not even play every day so that is pretty irrelevant. Base criteria should be minimum WvW rank and dolyak kills would solve the problem. Some players only play in the fall, winter and spring, and not in the summer while out travelling on vacation and they are real players too, but are not even going to be notified there is a poll.. Email invite only like they have done the other surveys would solve that problem.

I am not sure why you would think playing every day would even be relevant considering many hardcore wvw players do not.

Hexinx.1872:

Devil – I own 3 accounts, they are all legitimate votes, and all accounts are active everyday.

Yes, many wvw players own multiple accounts. When they went on sale for $10 some players even bought one for every server. Just because I can vote 15 times do you think I should be able to? Or how about the guy who has accounts on all Na and Eu servers? Should he have more say in what happens than you do? That is what happens when you do not only allow one vote per actual WvW player setting a WvW rank of 500 and then adding in a minimum number of dolyak kills to ensure actual WvW play and not EotM would reduce the number of multiple accounts one can vote with since that takes time to do, not just buying accounts. Someone can have 24 legitimate accounts just as easily as you have 3.

Hexinx.1872:

Even after 3 yes votes, not moving

THIS is the problem with doing the polls like this, You voted 3 times you say? So what if the guy who disagrees with you voted 24 times? Isn’t it great how we can vote s much a we like by how many accounts we have?

People need to understand these polls are in no way an accurate representation of WvW players since there is nothing preventing players from multiple voting or even being WvW players at all. As long as they continue to do the polls like this, there is no way to ensure they are getting accurate numbers and the results should not be used for anything other that toilet paper at that point.

We need 1 vote per actual WvW player for WvW polls. Use WvW rank+ Dolyak kills and send WvW surveys to those players instead.

I do hope they set worlds to low for the ones that are actually low instead of artificially bumping them to medium as well. If there are no low servers, there is no such thing as medium :p

Dragon.8762:

lil devils x.6071:

Dragon.8762:

Jeez, its obvious some of you still didn’t even read what I wrote. I’m just expressing an idea to encourage more small scale pvp fights around the entire map by giving players an objective to venture out. Increasing the rewards for something players are already gonna do (Attacking keeps, towers, and camps) isn’t going to incentivize anything, because players already do it. Its so more people will have reason to spread out and even venture into enemy territory other then looking randomly for fights aka the roamers.

You do realize while players are engaged in killing some stupid NPC in WvW, the enemy pounces on them like they are wearing meat suits? LOL

Thats exactly what I said in my first post. I encourage it. That same situation happens already with capturing towers, keeps, and camps. The difference being, this isn’t a tower, keep, or camp.

ya it is called the Grub.. and no we do not need more grubs.

Dragon.8762:

Jeez, its obvious some of you still didn’t even read what I wrote. I’m just expressing an idea to encourage more small scale pvp fights around the entire map by giving players an objective to venture out. Increasing the rewards for something players are already gonna do (Attacking keeps, towers, and camps) isn’t going to incentivize anything, because players already do it. Its so more people will have reason to spread out and even venture into enemy territory other then looking randomly for fights aka the roamers.

You do realize while players are engaged in killing some stupid NPC in WvW, the enemy pounces on them like they are wearing meat suits? LOL

Jayne.9251:

lil devils x.6071:

Dawdler.8521:

Morte.5916:

There are also practical barriers. Say I like the sound of havoc groups (I do). To try that will I need a set of e.g. rabid gear? If so, that’s on the order of 100g just to try something out. Free level 76 exotic gear, that’s only usable in WvW and disintegrates after 30 hours, would be more like it.

… what? Wtf do you use, armor made of gold? A full set including weapons and sigils/runes is like 20 gold (or 10 days of doing nothing but daily). Ascended trinkets is dirt cheap. And thats not even counting the options for WvW bought gear, which is more like 7 gold + badges.

Most players run all ascended gear for WVW, and need more than one set to switch out to be able to run different party comps. I don’t know any nubs running condi builds anyhow.. running rabid gets you gkicked lol

LvL 76 gear = score for other team.

Lol. I still run mostly exotics. And I can still beat you

You might be able to with a stick outside of WvW, however, in WvW you are welcome to try. XD

Jeknar.6184:

lil devils x.6071:

Dawdler.8521:

Morte.5916:

There are also practical barriers. Say I like the sound of havoc groups (I do). To try that will I need a set of e.g. rabid gear? If so, that’s on the order of 100g just to try something out. Free level 76 exotic gear, that’s only usable in WvW and disintegrates after 30 hours, would be more like it.

… what? Wtf do you use, armor made of gold? A full set including weapons and sigils/runes is like 20 gold (or 10 days of doing nothing but daily). Ascended trinkets is dirt cheap. And thats not even counting the options for WvW bought gear, which is more like 7 gold + badges.

Most players run all ascended gear for WVW, and need more than one set to switch out to be able to run different party comps. I don’t know any nubs running condi builds anyhow.. running rabid gets you gkicked lol

LvL 76 gear = score for other team.

A competent player in full exotics can easily take over a scrub that think having full ascended stuff will save him… Happens plenty of time when I’m playing on my alt account which only have ascended rings and amulet.

Ascended equipments give advantage? Sure they do. But it’s not like it’s impossible to win a fight without those… One would argue that at best you only need a ascended weapon (because the base damage increase the damage of your skills) to be par with an full ascended player, and ascended weapons aren’t really expensive since you only need to craft 2-4 of them.

You should never expect to be 1v1 anyone, you should be expecting to 1 v 5 at all times. Unless you want to be roadkill and feed them bags, or just blob it up, you should be ready to fight outnumbered against zergs in full ascended gear at all times. Due to how long this game has been out the zergs are no longer as green as they used to be…

But then again I am accustomed to the enemy zergs to be running proper builds and comps and buffing on another coming at us with a dragon banner so if you want to be able to fight that outnumbered you need to have your gear and comp together to do so.

Dawdler.8521:

Morte.5916:

There are also practical barriers. Say I like the sound of havoc groups (I do). To try that will I need a set of e.g. rabid gear? If so, that’s on the order of 100g just to try something out. Free level 76 exotic gear, that’s only usable in WvW and disintegrates after 30 hours, would be more like it.

… what? Wtf do you use, armor made of gold? A full set including weapons and sigils/runes is like 20 gold (or 10 days of doing nothing but daily). Ascended trinkets is dirt cheap. And thats not even counting the options for WvW bought gear, which is more like 7 gold + badges.

Most players run all ascended gear for WVW, and need more than one set to switch out to be able to run different party comps. I don’t know any nubs running condi builds anyhow.. running rabid gets you gkicked lol

LvL 76 gear = score for other team.

Pyx.1906:

It seems like Anet should be interested in increasing the participation in WvW, not killing it. The only time I even think about WvW is when one of my toons is visiting for the crafting station and sees some interesting activity, which I join. This change will reduce my interest and participation in WvW by 99%. Every time I wait 5 minutes to load into LA and spend time and money WPing back to my location, I’ll be building an additional resentment for the WvW world that used-to-be. This helps active WvW players by a tiny amount (I see queues about twice a month at most), really kills interest and participation by occasional WvW players. See you all much, much later.

Players that are interested in going in to WvW to craft and farm are not actually interested in WvW. The point is those that come to WvW for crafting and farming are hurting WvW, not helping it. Being interested in WvW means to actually change from PvE builds and run WvW builds, get on voice coms to hear what is actually going on and get involved with the WvW community. Coming in and trying to play on a PvE build running around not understanding you are scoring for the other team isn’t helping anyone.

The place to start is be willing to change off of PvE classes and builds, get on voice coms to hear what is actually happening in the game, join a guild that has builds on their website and learn to play the game and not just score for the other team instead. Every time you die in WVW you are scoring for the other team. The best place to start is to actually try to become a part of the WvW community. This is not Single player and Not PvE, and that should be understood from the go.

So look at it this way, you just walked out onto the court in the middle of a basketball game grabbed the ball and started scoring for the other team and wonder why people are yelling at you.

Justine.6351:

There are already bounties for “powerful creatures” in wvw.
The dailies often target tower champs or keep Lords
At the weak end they target 2 camps filled with evil enemy monsters like char and sylvari.

PPL have been asking for years for them to take out the NPC aggro from WvW as it is..

Dragon.8762:

Let me rephrase what I wrote because I think some people just looked at my title and assumed the worst.

The main purpose is to give an objective out side of capturing areas on the map while also incentivizing more people to spread out either solo or in small groups around the different WvW zones. The current pve stuff that most of you have already seen has nothing like this. It mainly consists of just that, capturing areas or killing a vet for very small rewards that aren’t even worth it.

This is to encourage more small pvp fights since, along the way of roaming for your bounty you’re bound to run into an enemy player and vice versa. If anything, it’ll give players a direction to head towards while they are out there.

If they take away PPT all together, and make all the objectives ( Towers, yaks ,sentries, keeps, camps) give a buff that increases their PPK and Loot for those that own them while fighting over them, that would be more than enough incentive to fight over the objectives. If you get more loot and PPK in game for fighting over objectives than anything else ( both attacking and defenders with slightly higher buff to defenders for owning the objective) players will have plenty of incentive since they would be able to get higher chances of precursors, ascended and legendary materials for killing other players while fighting over objectives instead.

Bounty systems on players are soo easy to exploit, and they actually do the opposite of encourage small scale fights.. what we used to do on another game was take our massive guild and all hide around a rock and use a single player as bait for them and put the bait bounty in the path where the opposition would come in and when their small group of bounty hunters came to jump him we would jump out and kick their faces in. That is how this works in reality.

So for the past 4 years everyone has been asking them to remove PvE from WvW and then someone comes in and wants to add more. 99% of the game is PvE WvW players should be able to have their tiny corner. PvE kills WvW. The end. I would prefer they remove all PvE, PvD, champs ect from WvW and make it more PvP focused. The more PvE they add the less Dedicated WvW players stay around. When you lose your dedicated WvW players all this becomes is like any other PvE map in the game…

I knew the numbers we were seeing was no where near right. Thank you for setting it straight. Now they just need to lower transfer fees/ offer free transfers and see what happens to see if some of the servers that were unable to compete before due to costs do not suddenly become competitive. If they had free transfers to all non full servers the servers might actually become competitive. I know low tiers will scream, but the fact is they are being forced to join more popular servers anyhow via linking. Players should be able to go where they are happy and at least be able to compete if they want to. Players do not transfer to lowest pop servers because they want to compete, they do so to run away from competition, but now with linking they cannot avoid it.

ShasOrange.9876:

lil devils x.6071:

HotM lobby area has a bank to unload, if they add crafting tables there, would work the same as WvW without altering the WvW population numbers that are used to determine server transfer costs and which servers are linked.

That would be nice/helpful, but anet are unlikely to do it.

And it’ll still lead to player drop off from WvW. Most of the times I’ve jumped into WvW was after jumping on map to dump stuff in my bank and consolidate mat’s via crafting. It’s nice and easy to jump from PvE to WvW, help out for a bit, then log off and have your toon go back to where you left off in PvE. Now it’s just going to be a bum load of load screens at the minimum. This is just going to lead to more servers dying off and more need for said server transfers for WvW players. So enjoy the spiraling death that it WvW.

PvE players coming in to do something here and there isn’t going to save WvW. Only dedicated WvW players will accomplish that. Making cities server based and adding server wide chat option would be far more beneficial to WvW than crafting tables.
WvW players are better brought in to play WvW than to come in to farm or craft.

Players talking about WvW while out on their actual server brings in more players that actually want to fight, be willing to change classes and builds and learn what it takes to win fights while outnumbered. Players coming in to farm and craft are not going to be willing to change off their PvE classes and builds, get on voice coms to know what is actually going on and are far more likely to be one push material. That doesn’t really help their server, it hurts it. Dying in WvW means you are scoring for the other team.

Not on your own currently, they only reset them at certain times, and it has been a long while since they had a reset. We have been asking for a reset button per character that would be nice though.

phantom.1675:

I agree it adds to queues.

For those saying it adds to numbers of players in these “population counts” I say this:
if the data analysts at anet can figure out how to send a poll only to players that have ranked up, they can certainly figure out how to only count players that have ranked up. If you dont rank up in a day, you don’t count.

If those analytics can’t make that inference, well you can see why we have so many problems balancing population.

The thing is though once one player finds out about the polls, they just tell others, they would have to put a lock on the poll itself to only allow invited players. Dolyaks kills would be a better determination. No Dolyaks in EotM.

phantom.1675:

Takes 7 hours to complete a WvW reward track. If you want to bring in WvW players, address this slap in the face garbage loot system they just released, then tuned, and have still left idiotic.

If you just queue PvP and lose every game youll roll the reward track much faster than 7 hours. Why would anyone bother with WvW given this?

I suggested they tie Loot strictly to PPK and stop rewarding PvD but they didn’t want to hear that. I think they should remove PPT and instead it gives you a buff while fighting over yaks, keeps, towers, camps ect increases loot and PPK while you fight over it. Owning it gives no score, but a buff that while fighting over objectives gives you increased PPK and LOOT. Killing other players without the use of siege while fighting over objectives would be the only way to get points and loot. Defending team would get a slight buff, making owning the objectives more valuable than they currently are.

Now of course I also suggested they get no loot or PPK for siege damage on players as well but that could be negated if they reduced siege damage on players. That would not reward Afkers, PvDers’ Ktrainers and make WvW about the actual fight instead. But too many People wanna PvD instead I guess….