Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.
WvWvW ends on Monday night. With offical scores done at 11:59pm West Coast time. Let’s face it, most people lose interest by Tuesday and getting people to participate in anything but mindless zerging is next to impossible during the week. 3 days of intense combat is enough, 7 tends to burn out players.
Set up EB as a GvGvG game that can be set to last 2-3h… 25v25v25. Challenges can be made. People can join as independants and assigned to a side that needs players. Tuesday-Friday is for playing these matches.
Considering the implicit rule of respect that I’ve seen in all GvG matches, I don’t really think that’s the right attitude to take. My guild has been unable to take GvGs for almost two weeks now and it’s rather disgusting the rumors I’ve heard from other people. Guilds do not need to be named and shamed if they don’t want to fight. And besides, the idea was to reward people for accepting, not punishing people for declining (somehow, but not sure how that would happen). Yeah, it sucks for you guys who get a lot of declined GvGs, but there must be other factors at play, at least in NA…TW has mentioned it constantly being an issue, yet why is it not an issue for Agg? They floated between 2 and 1 and everyone still loves to fight them, and they love to fight.
It actually has been an issue for Agg as well, there was a very large gap before anyone would accept an official gvg. Now that the NA scene is taking off it is nearly impossible to get anyone to accept a 20v20 as well.
As far as implementing the accept/decline in regards to no-show that is a tough one, any system that is policed by the guilds involved has the potential to be abused much as the ratings can be now. Possibly just show
Challenge accepted: pending / forfeit / no-show
Challenge Declined: Driver was away / does not accept 10v10
I am against affecting actual rating because without being officiated it will remain open to abuse. Seeing as a community we tend to be against playing for the ppt, over time a pattern will show for the guilds dodging fights to keep their “gvg ppt”. Since the only accolades involved here are from the community itself, a guild that actively dodges certain guilds or tough fights are only going to hurt their reputation over the long run.
— I hear a lot of High-tier guilds complaining no one wants to accept their challenges, so this could be some sort of solution to activate the scene even more.
A possible thought to this, instead of forcing a challenge for multiple reasons already brought up in the thread, instead make a challenge/accept history. Basically guild A has issued a 20v20 challenge to guild B and guild B declines the offer. Now the guild history of both guilds shows this record. This in no way punishes a guild with theoretical rating but instead challenges their reputation to stay active. If it would be possible and wouldn’t clutter the UI it may be nice to have a short 15/w (just an example) description for reasons ex. Driver was away, we do not 10v10, etc.
Against class change. However, if they were to later introduce new playable races I would hate to delete a char or dupe a class in order to get it. (Would delete my thief and reroll it into skritt if I had to).
Rally should be more in line to help the smaller groups. An example would be xx number of people in xxx radius gives a debuff/removal of rally feature. This would remove a large safety net from blobs. Anyone running a small tactical group vs much larger numbers knows that you rarely have time to stomp before the sheer damage kills you, you can never stand still that long. And it’s very discouraging to see half a Zerg rallying by picking off your numbers 1 by 1
Personal thoughts:
1) An official stance on the current and future wvw goals, i.e. What is it they want wvw to be exactly.
2) stop balancing wvw around spvp and pve
3) Proper representation of the wvw community in the sotg from guilds dedicated to wvw.
4) an aoe debuff for groups over 30-40 with keeps/towers being an exemption. The higher the numbers in the given area the stronger the debuff.
5) Same principle as 4 but instead remove rally from the larger groups thus adding incentive to smaller organized groups and removing a large saftynet from the “blob”.
I know a lot of wvw focused players and guilds are already planning their exit from the game if the have not already. While there are many issues my personal belief is that it stems from a lack of attention from the powers that be. With no representation and no clear goals (is a casual playground the intent?) it doesn’t feel like people that spend majority of their gameplay in wvw are the ones with the dev’s ear.
Complete personaly story as requirement (or up until a certain point where race doesn’t matter anymore – after Battle of Claw iirc, where there is different cutscene if you’re a Sylvari), cultural armor get lost in the process (if you’ve spent 110g on that char it’s unlikely you dislike the race. and if you do, it’s your fault having spent so much gold on something you don’t like), can redo the char creation when changing race, racial skills gets resetted.
Cost, 1600 gems sounds accurate to me (double the total makeover).
Pretty close to my thoughts. And I especially agree that losing any cultural armor etc should be a risk involved with a race change.
The argument against “inspecting” is that elitists would use it to exclude people based on their setup. If all you want is to know the names of the various armor pieces and weapons, and you don’t care about the stats, then I don’t see an argument against making that information available.
Seeing stats leads to discontent, though. Besides, the other player might just be doing better than you because they are more experienced. (That is the main idea behind GW2 combat anyway… that SKILL should dominate over equipment. It’s also what makes elitists so ignorant; they believe that just because you aren’t running the build they want you to run, that you aren’t effective).
^ that’s my thoughts as well. The only way it wouldn’t be abused would be if it was only showing the skins in a way like the pvp locker in hotm. Granted elitist will always find a way to exclude but at least they have to be obvious by asking you to ping x items.
It’s the McRib approach, they sell good even if they are not all that great. By limiting availability it creates an artificial sense of urgency that a % of the population can’t resist. By making the scycle axe pick limited time items that will likely return people rush to buy them while they can instead of floating the idea for a few months. Another perk is they never have to put a sale on the item because of the time limit demand.
It’s a shame that some self appointed e-bullies try to tell/force others how they should play or enjoy the game and to exit WvWvW/not to run with the zerg etc.
1) Low levels toons are not breaking any rules by the TOS or EULA so to those that don’t like low level players well too bad and please stop filling up the chat with your needless arguing and fight the enemy and not each other on your server.
2) Play the game your way and others will play their way while everyone needs to learn to get along.
Magische Boek.2530 “cant rally from a player thats 10 lvls lower than you” or something? :p”
Jscull.2514, “down state”
That has nothing to do with my OP in anyway shape or form.
Your OP is essentially a rant that did not offer any suggestions, points, or pose any questions. The people you are calling out are stating the fundamental reason for your experience and even offering their theory on how it could be resolved.
This thread was made to remind people and to let people know that WvWvW is for all level toons regardless being new to the game ingeneral or someone leveling alts. Trying to help prevent players from getting discouraged by bad apples trying to bully them that is prety clear.
Those two people ARE NOT stating the fundamental reason for my experience as you try to claim.
sigh No one is trying to say e-bullying is right and you have it coming. Well maybe a few would. Anyway, your asking others to show some respect for the way you want to play, that’s great, I believe that should always be the case. However, your anger is causing you to miss the chance to understand why other people are angry and over reacting.
Your points
1) it’s not against the Eula or tos to be a low level so if you don’t like it too bad.
– you are correct, off to a rough start though.
2)play the game your way and let others play it their way.
– if you don’t like it too bad. (J/k)
An example would be a guild (not running a commander tag to avoid attracting pugs) is wiping a group twice their size, a green arrow goes down and just rezzed half their group (because of the downed state mechanics mentioned). Because you didn’t respect the way they wanted to play they will likely be upset like you are now. Still no reason to get offensive ofcourse.
Now a couple people have tried to add suggestions and create conversation that would make less hate for a green arrow such as removing the downed state mechanic (the #1 reason for the hate) or giving a level range on ressing from an uplevel. You have called the people out for not contributing yet have not said what your points are and seem to be opposed to discussing the issue that is the cause of your bad experience.
Magische Boek.2530 “cant rally from a player thats 10 lvls lower than you” or something? :p”
Jscull.2514, “down state”
That has nothing to do with my OP in anyway shape or form.
Your OP is essentially a rant that did not offer any suggestions, points, or pose any questions. The people you are calling out are stating the fundamental reason for your experience and even offering their theory on how it could be resolved.
gem store would be horrible IMO. It can be another potential gold sink like traits though. Or, you can only respec in a major city and risk a que in upper tiers
I think people are just not nearly as concerned as you are. If you’re running a dmg spec that is less than 1 hit. While it does give an edge I agree and I won’t shed a single tear if its removed, the real issue is simply a lack of meaningful rewards that forces you to make the hard choice for point placement. As of now I choose to make an op AC more op or get the fortitude so I can survive 2 hits longer under its fire.
Technically every skill you can buy gives you an advantage over a lower level person. Besides, I’m happy for anything that pulls points away from arrowcart mastery.
Instead of playing capture the flag with an orb make it an upgrade. An example would be you have to own garrison hills bay, or some some other combination like garrison and its two towers..
— Once you own all of the towers you can start the orb upgrade, if you lose one of the towers you lose the orb.
—Add a countdown/timer in the UI that shows how long till the upgrade is completed for all servers to see.
This would help provide pressure against the upgrading server while forcing them to protect what is theirs. Could work in conjunction with an improved outmanned buff, say increase dmg against walls, doors, etc.
Winning server does not always mean it has the best players, that goes without saying if your familiar with wvw. However, the higher up the tiers you go, particularly t-3 and up, will have a higher concentration of wvw focused players. The down side to that is you also get more fair weather players and increased Zerg size the higher you go.
If you are looking for solo/small group roaming stay to the lower end. For larger more wvw focused guilds look toward the higher tiers.
The non-core classes came out in their respective expansions. That said I do hope they continue that trend with future expansions, not just expanded races.
Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.
We don’t have a bigger zerg. Under the new matchups there’s so little incentive to upgrade anything. Unless we focus all our forces on one location to only defend there’s little we can do to stop the enemy from taking our locations.
Last night we had a lot of people on and we barely managed to hang onto our garrison. If ArenaNet is going to make the matches so lopsided why not let us use siege to even the odds? I don’t know how to balance it with small groups though.
I understand your pain, that must be frustrating for you. But the old arrowcarts did a good job at evening the odds, there was no need for that buff.
Pretty much my sentiment. I am on dragonbrand as well so I understand the difficulty of the current match up. Coverage is the main issue which is out of our control. The way I see it though is there is never a shortage of people to fight which is my main draw to wvw.
Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.
People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.
Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.
I’m on Dragonbrand and this week we are fighting 2 tier 1 servers. A lot of our players look at the score and haven’t bothered to come out. There are even times during NA prime where we are outmanned. Often I’m sitting alone in a tower when a 40 man zerg rolls up. Exactly how am I supposed to defend this? Maybe I’m not and that’s the point, but it sure is fun trying to slow them down enough for help to come or turn them away.
Oil is a joke as are canons mostly. They are on the front edge so I must stand in the aoe from 40 people to operate them. Same for ballista. Catas used to help but now they can’t fire through the door so they are out. Trebs can’t hit close range so they are out too.
Without arrow carts I guess I’m supposed to jump down into the zerg and fight them all?
Arrow carts were the one deterrent to zergs for small groups. Now they are nerfing them because too many zergers complained.
I really wish they cared about WvW.
Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.
Im positive the novelty of the new contestant will fade away quickly and we will be eager again to fight whichever comes around , i personally don’t care what guild or server we fight as long we get a fun open field fight.
[agg] so tanky in fights o.o!
pd: just don’t bring to many arrow carts those i find em boring ^^u
Don’t worry we oppose the use of arrowcarts anywhere in open field, use them on rare occasions during keep defense.
Will we get double teamed? Yes. Preplanned? No, opportunistic. Will it be fair? Yes. We are the weakest server in the match up which means easy points for them. Now lets not QQ and get out there and enjoy the opportunity for some really tough fights against some great guilds.
This canned response to everything proposed as a change drives me freaking batty. How?! I mean really, how would having auto loot option promote more zerging?Seriously. I want to know.
I would like to know how guaranteed loot will not promote zerging.
I hate it too when I cant get that loot bag after a fight. but if you were winning the fight then this wont be a problem anyway. It makes sense that if you lose a battle you dont get a reward. either you have to ditch your team to get loot or continue fighting, would Id be cautious or go John Woo on this kittens! Is the loot more important than our objective? I’d rather have these choices than none at all.
If auto loot is enabled in WvW it just removes a small slice of depth to the game.
To counter, the current system promotes zerging. You are more likely to get your scattered bags and not die trying to grab them the more people you have around you. On the otherhand if you are garaunteed to receive the loot you earned, you will likely take more risks without losing that precursor yet again.
The problem will be figuring out the wvw population from overall. Some servers have equal populations but disparate wvw participation. Factor in the wvw population boost and decline for winning/losing servers and there is just too many unknowns. I would think to balance it out properly you would almost have to remove wvw from server based to something faction or otherwise that can have its own distinct population measured and balanced.
1) remove the name tag of an opponent from the ui once they have been completely downed.
- can make an option to turn it on/off
- helps strategic battle movement
- less clutter on the ui
- it’s distracting and makes differentiating who is still in the fight more difficult.
I’m all for shorter invader names but that’s been stated several times already.
2) Absent removing downed state completely:
- Remove or tweek the rally feature. I’ve seen half a Zerg res off a player that dc’s.
– or 20+ removes rally, 40+ skips downed state
3) balance arrow carts. Reduce range/keep dmg. Reduce dmg keep range. SOMETHING needs to be adjusted.
As stated in the title remove the name tag of an opponent from the ui once they have been completely downed.
- can make an option to turn it on/off
- helps strategic battle movement
- less clutter on the ui
- it’s distracting and makes differentiating who is still in the fight more difficult.
I’m all for shorter invader names but that’s been stated several times already.
And while they are at it, please work on removing the tag of a completely downed player from the oppositions viewpoint. It gets real messy in large fights.
Preferably be on a server with a comfortable lead, I say this because turnout is high and usually a couple zergs running a karma train.
Be mindful that some organized groups/guilds will hate on uplevels. The reason being if you die you potentially rally everyone they just killed.
Main thing, find a commander tag and stick to that tag like your trying to eat his Doritos. Listen to what he says and preferably join your community team speak if there is one available.
Heibi. Look I’m not trying to argue with you here. My comments are for the OP, from the standpoint of a hardcore wvw/gvg guild that focuses exclusively on the team synergy provided by each class through field testing. Rangers are good, especially in spvp and pve, and can do quite well in wvw. However, when you are trying to maximize the potential of as small a group as possible your forced to consider class/builds/equipment. If your are a 20-30 man guild trying to go toe to toe with a 50-60 man Zerg it is essential that you are using every party slot to its maximum potential.
I would be happy to continue this discussion private or In game with anyone so we dont derail the OP’s thread further.
I add lots to synergy. It’s all in how you play. When playing you never have any idea what a person’s build is. If I was in your team/group/zerg with my build you’d never be able to tell the difference between me and others. If people are helping and your team/group is successful, the build is meaningless. If you are not following instructions and running off in all directions you aren’t adding to the overall synergy.
My guild is primarily PVE. We know how to add to a group’s synergy and support the group as a whole. We learned to play our classes. I wouldn’t be successful in WvW if I didn’t know how to be part of the group.
your right you may not detract from the group, and we may never notice your there, that however is part of the issue. We run specialized builds for each class designed to meet a specific need. Rangers do have some group support, however for a structured wvw team, the support they offer can be done better and more often by other classes.
I’m not trying to knock rangers though, my first char was a ranger, as it was for half the guild.
Coming from an organized guild I can attest that it will be hard for you to find a home in a structured wvw guild. There is no doubt when built right that a ranger can do great. However, it has very little group synergy, adding very little to a team that couldn’t be done by another profession. Great for small man teams roaming / selfish in larger team builds.
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