These pve scrapper builds have a massive lack of swiftness, I can’t even imagine open world PVE at minimal speed, literally what I would love addressed first.
Pretty much all effective scrapper builds lack an IMS.
Mh, this could make gyros indeed more reliable, at least in PvE. Gotta see how often they happen to get aggroed, though. And how cleaving attacks work against them.
Edit: ok, cleaving attacks that don’t target them directly have their damage reduced. Fine. Gotta test about the aggro when the changes go live then.
Edit 2: I missed the line about minions being in a good place for PvP. Guess they forgot already what they did to turrets. Or just never tried them after that change.
They do not want minions to be effective in PvP. That has been obvious for years.
Short of a complete re-work, I think turrets are mostly dead in PvP.
Truth be told, I can live with this.
Good thing they gave us another brand new line with more minions then…
Yeah, terrible decision.
Still they have learned some. They are much better than turrets as a whole. And a few of them are even worth taking for their tool-belt.
Yes and that is why every utility slot gives you a toolbelt skill. Just as every weapon allows mesmers to summon Illusions.
Quite a poor comparison. The equivalent for mesmers would be shatter skills, not the illusions they get on weapons. Obviously, they do get them because they’re necessary for shatters to work properly.
And other classes get F-skills as well, anyway. Guardians have three signet-like skills, for example. While still having a second weapon set.
Even at your lowest amount you have access to 15 skills on demand. All other professions besides chronomancer do not have access to that many on demand.
For example a thief has access to 11 skills at a time and they require a weapon swap to access the other 5.
Five of which – the weapon skills – are weakened on purpose due to kits, as we know from the balance philosophies.
And toolbelt cooldowns aren’t usually comparable to weapon skills’ ones even when the effects aren’t exactly amazing. So merely reducing it as an amount of skill available at any time isn’t a fair comparison.
That is just how the classes works. Kits give you access to two weapons and the payment is a utility slot. The balance is there, you just don’t like it.
And it works quite badly. They ended up having to balance weapons and utilities over theoretical full kit builds because of how overpowered they could become otherwise (and screwing the builds with few-to-no-kits in doing so) – they even had to balance individual kits over their traited versions until the specialization update (grenade kit says hello). And making it the only class that needs a particular utility type to even process on swap sigils.
The only class that gets fixed drawbacks due to the mere possibility of using a particular utility type, heh.
If warriors got decreased stats because they can use banners to raise them, people would laugh. Engineers having no second weapon slot because of kits instead is treated as normal. Heh.
I see no problem with giving kitless builds a way to proc weapon swap sigils, but I don’t think you should get a true weapon swap. It would simply mess up too much of the class.
As if the class isn’t messed up already, right?
Even if we had such a thing, weapons and utilities would still be balanced over kits. So nothing would change.
I don’t know how to help you. This is class design. Engie is built around around having access to all their skills at once. And having at least one kit. Thief is built around having no cooldown on weapons. Necro is built around having death shroud to subvert the 10 second cooldown on weapon swap. Ele don’t get an additional skill to make up for taking conjured weapons. Neither do warriors for banners.
If you want fixed drawbacks for skill types look at the necromancer corruptions.
If you don’t like my explanation then look at the other commenters in this thread.
It simply isn’t possible to give a true weapon swap without completely reworking the class. All weapons would have to be altered in strength. The toolbelt skills would have to be altered in strength. The kits would have to be altered in strength. Cooldown on kit swaps would be added.
And we would still have the same problem we do now for Elites Specializations.
Ever since the removal of the hobosacks, and the arrival of the toilet paper roll and the bag of onions back in June 23rd, we’ve been promised that these placeholder models would be scrapped and we’d get the real deal.
Where was this said?
I remember people assuming that these were placeholders, but I don’t recall ArenaNet ever confirming that.
During the pre-6/23 patch stream, it was implied.
But as we know, a LOT changed between that stream and the actual patch release.
I’d like to have a purge only absorb all the conditions, also he should get 1 sec resistance per sec. This way he can soak up all the conditions. The toolbelt should then inflict those conditions in a small area.
Purge and shredder are the underwhelming ones. I probably will never use them the way they currently are.
Your purge Gyro suggestion is a nice direction for the skill.
And I agree about these two. These are the worst Gyros. Worst than even blast Gyro.
Why should they even bother fixing all the other skills if people are fine with having kit builds as the only decent option?
You can’t have both kits as they’re now and a decently balanced class. And people seems to prefer the first option. So, nothing will change.
People are not ‘fine’ with this. They just do not want to see kits gutted.
Most of the things on that list would weaken kit dominance.
i see many responses are opposed to change kits. Let me ask this: how come the actual class mechanic is seen as much less important than some optional utilities?
People treat kits as if they were our class mechanic. They aren’t. And thus they shouldn’t have such an impact on our overall balancing.
They were made as an optional utility, and they should be balanced as an optional utility.
Not be the center of everything like they are now.
I think it is pretty obvious that kits are at the core of the class.
The tool-belt is less of a class mechanic and more of an apology for Kits taking a utility slot.
And the lack of weapon swap is the trade-off for having so many skills because of kits and tool-belts.
If anything, I think the Toolbelt is the most problematic presence on the class. Taking up all the ‘F’ slots as it does severely limits Elite specs to being too passive.
They do not want minions to be effective in PvP. That has been obvious for years.
Short of a complete re-work, I think turrets are mostly dead in PvP.
Truth be told, I can live with this.
Honestly, i don’t care a bit whether they want or not for them to be effective.
Those utilities are there, and they have to work. In any mode.
If they don’t want them to be effective on purpose, then remove them and give us something that is supposed to work. But just don’t leave them to waste.
And for the love of the six gods, especially don’t make new ai-based skill types if they are purposefully designed to be useless in two thirds of the game. Cause it makes no sense at all, and it ends up being a waste of time for both us and them. Yes, i’m talking about gyro.
Ehh, pretty much all classes have useless utility types or a gaggle of useless skills.
And I think it is pretty unreasonable to demand that all utilities be effective in every mode. That is just not going to happen and it already does not.
That said, I DO think the turrets should be updated and made useful. I just do not think that this will happen in the same way everyone expects them to. More likely than not, if turrets are useful gain, it will be in a completely different way than they are now.
Also, Gyros are not useless. And those that look to be, are thus not because they are A.I. (Blast Gyro, Shredder Gyro, Purge Gyro) but because they are poorly designed.
Kits are effective in every mode though. It’s possible, they just don’t even bother trying.
Turrets haven’t been touched since they were nerfed.
And? Turrets are the least of the class’s issues.
-Gadgets have been useless for so long that it is just sad now.
-Pistol 1 is still laughable, 3 is still super erratic and 5 is still useless.
-Healing Turret is still the only good heal
-Grenades still crowd out too many damage options
-Med Kit is an even bigger waste than it was before (and it was poor before)
Both they and us have much better things to worry about when it comes to the class.
Engineer couldn’t be any farther then what you envisioned it to be.
Turrets do not scale with any power/weapon strength, meaning the numbers you see on them for raw damage is what you get. Even assuming they take 95% less damage, they still do diddly for damage.
In PvE, the meta is using as many kits as possible bar the med kit, so your setup will be something like FT Grenades and either bomb kit or EGun depending on your stat setup, finished off with Mortar Kit for orbital strike.
Then, you just hit all the buttons. For example, streamlined kits —--> Mortar gun for the throw gunk to synergize with modified ammo —->Egun —-> Acid bomb —-> FT —-> flameblast into napalm wall —-> Grenades #2, #4 and #5 back to rifle and Blunderbuss —-> jumpshot and repeat it over and over until the boss is dead. Didn’t even count the toolbelts in this rotation, which you have to use as well (Grenade Barrage, Orbital Strike and Incendiary Ammo)
You don’t even use auto attacks much, and if you do its the grenades.
You basically just mash every button that has a high number and do nothing else. That is the state of Engineer, and while it may change for Raids I doubt it will change for dungeons or fractals.
I don’t like it either. Turrets need to scale with Power or they will continue to be a joke.
That is just the optimal rotation for damage.
You are not required to play that way. Playing optimally is never really ‘fun’ it is functional.
This applies to all classes.
He said he wanted to go kitless and use turrets.
Going full turrets is so terrible in current content that you might as well kick the guy and run with a bearbow full soldiers ranger. It isn’t so much “not optimal” as it is “entirely useless”.
And the state of the Engineer is the exact opposite of kitless.
I was challenging your ‘spam all the things on all the kits’ narrative.
There are a ton of ways to play the class if you just want to have fun.
If you want to maximize your contribution, there is a specific way you have to play.
Engies are no more or less restricted than Thieves or Warriors or Rangers or etc.
guess I won´t be playing engi then and will stick to my thief.
I´m lvl 30 now and just hate the playstyle and don´t find it fun at all. Being basically a melee ele with a 45 second dps rotation just to keep up with other classes just isn´t for me.
I think if the engi was more like a long range sniper class I´d enjoy it a lot more.
Good luck to you guys. Engi just isn´t my thing.
Keep up? Sir, Engie DPS far exceeds most others.
If you merely want to keep up, just use rifle and one of the damage kits.
Engineer couldn’t be any farther then what you envisioned it to be.
Turrets do not scale with any power/weapon strength, meaning the numbers you see on them for raw damage is what you get. Even assuming they take 95% less damage, they still do diddly for damage.
In PvE, the meta is using as many kits as possible bar the med kit, so your setup will be something like FT Grenades and either bomb kit or EGun depending on your stat setup, finished off with Mortar Kit for orbital strike.
Then, you just hit all the buttons. For example, streamlined kits —--> Mortar gun for the throw gunk to synergize with modified ammo —->Egun —-> Acid bomb —-> FT —-> flameblast into napalm wall —-> Grenades #2, #4 and #5 back to rifle and Blunderbuss —-> jumpshot and repeat it over and over until the boss is dead. Didn’t even count the toolbelts in this rotation, which you have to use as well (Grenade Barrage, Orbital Strike and Incendiary Ammo)
You don’t even use auto attacks much, and if you do its the grenades.
You basically just mash every button that has a high number and do nothing else. That is the state of Engineer, and while it may change for Raids I doubt it will change for dungeons or fractals.
I don’t like it either. Turrets need to scale with Power or they will continue to be a joke.
That is just the optimal rotation for damage.
You are not required to play that way. Playing optimally is never really ‘fun’ it is functional.
Enough of hearing people saying you have to WORK to just play the basic game content. This is not work, this is a game for fun!.
Sure you need to grind for cosmetics and that’s totally fair. But have to grind for the basic content we already paid 50 dollars for? Hell no.
Except its not basic content. Its an optional spec.
And for all we know with the first 200 points we have access to the full traitline + weaps and the remaining 200 pts is the utilities (who cares right away, just as effective without in almost all cases) and the skins.
Which means its possible people with 200 pts can unlock a fully working elite spec on day one, minute one of logging in.
It is totally fair for people having 200 pts to unlock an elite spec. It is likely those people who did full map completion. It probably take more than 10 hours of them to do so.
Just make the skins unlock cost large amount of hero points. They are non-essential cosmetics. The elite spec is the basic content many players have been excited about. Putting huge HP gate is just to ask players to form HP trains and ignore the actual content itself.
The gate is not huge.
It just means that of the first few days of playing, you will not have unlocked the class 100%.
That is NOT unreasonable.
Not to mention that we do not actually know the what Armor/Weapon/Trait split is.
It’s an elite spec. There should be some grind, it should be expensive. And it won’t even be, with the jungle’s challenges rewarding us 10 per.
All you should be upset about is having to unlock all traits before going spec; this is reminiscent of the logic behind the old (new) trait system, where you had to unlock with skill points and gold if you weren’t completing certain achievements. It simply wasn’t fun to deal with.
Colin, could you explain the reasoning behind having to unlock all core specializations before working toward an elite?
They want you to be level 80 before you unlock the elite spec.
They do not want minions to be effective in PvP. That has been obvious for years.
Short of a complete re-work, I think turrets are mostly dead in PvP.
Truth be told, I can live with this.
Honestly, i don’t care a bit whether they want or not for them to be effective.
Those utilities are there, and they have to work. In any mode.
If they don’t want them to be effective on purpose, then remove them and give us something that is supposed to work. But just don’t leave them to waste.
And for the love of the six gods, especially don’t make new ai-based skill types if they are purposefully designed to be useless in two thirds of the game. Cause it makes no sense at all, and it ends up being a waste of time for both us and them. Yes, i’m talking about gyro.
Ehh, pretty much all classes have useless utility types or a gaggle of useless skills.
And I think it is pretty unreasonable to demand that all utilities be effective in every mode. That is just not going to happen and it already does not.
That said, I DO think the turrets should be updated and made useful. I just do not think that this will happen in the same way everyone expects them to. More likely than not, if turrets are useful gain, it will be in a completely different way than they are now.
Also, Gyros are not useless. And those that look to be, are thus not because they are A.I. (Blast Gyro, Shredder Gyro, Purge Gyro) but because they are poorly designed.
Mh, this could make gyros indeed more reliable, at least in PvE. Gotta see how often they happen to get aggroed, though. And how cleaving attacks work against them.
Edit: ok, cleaving attacks that don’t target them directly have their damage reduced. Fine. Gotta test about the aggro when the changes go live then.
Edit 2: I missed the line about minions being in a good place for PvP. Guess they forgot already what they did to turrets. Or just never tried them after that change.
They do not want minions to be effective in PvP. That has been obvious for years.
Short of a complete re-work, I think turrets are mostly dead in PvP.
It MAY eventually apply to PvP and WvW, but certainly not with the same reduction.
And I am guessing they are hesitant to do this with PvP/WvW because minions are not fun to have to fight. The fact they go down so quickly is the only thing that makes them bearable.
You mean 80% of guardians aren’t planning on switching anyway since dragonhunter is complete crap and doesn’t address any of the issues guardian has been wanting fixed for years?
I would hope it didn’t.
Problems with the core class should be fixed in the core class.
-Proactive: Full offense
-Reactive: Stun break
-Reactive: Nullify Blind Spam
The proposed Defense Field would follows this pattern:
-Reactive: Avoid Damage
-Reactive: Stun Break
-Proactive: Safe Area For Revives, Point Defense Against Range, etc (feedback things)
The conclusion I am making: most ‘reactive’ skills in this game have a context during which they can be considered proactive. There are relatively few skills that are only good when things happen to you.
I’ll never use Blast Gyro for the stunbreak, but I’m glad it’s not on Bulwark. The toolbelt is not an ability I want gated behind a stunbreak, I’d rather use it when there are projectiles and not waste it on a stun.
It may have made sense on the gyro itself since it reduces damage which is likely what you want to do after you get stunned.
Uh, you are going to have to explain your reasoning here.
You do not need to be stunned to use a stunbreak.
I understand the confusion, let me try to clarify.
To me if you have a skill that does two really important things they conflict with each other. If you use Defense Field for projectile reflecting, you don’t have it available as a stun break. If you use it for a stun break you don’t have it for projectile reflecting.
Okay, this is what I originally thought you meant.
And I disagree with that outlook.
That sort of design is something we need to encourage more of. Not only does it allow for some really nice compression, it forces the player to make the type of snap, value-based decisions that define active play.
Elixir S is a great example of this. It is an escape, a stunbreak, and a safe revive/stomp all in one.
I’ll never use Blast Gyro for the stunbreak, but I’m glad it’s not on Bulwark. The toolbelt is not an ability I want gated behind a stunbreak, I’d rather use it when there are projectiles and not waste it on a stun.
It may have made sense on the gyro itself since it reduces damage which is likely what you want to do after you get stunned.
Uh, you are going to have to explain your reasoning here.
The first comment is wrong, race does matter. It’s not a super-mega big deal though. Their racial utility skills have their own unique toolbar skill. Some are useful, most are awful.
For example, Sylvari gain Vine Shield which is very powerful.
I wouldn’t let it decide your race though, you’ll be looking at your character for quite a while so best to pick something you like.
You can view all the racial utility toolbelt skills here
I do not like to give new players the impression that race is useful in the long run.
Making any non-aesthetic decisions when it come to race can have rather unfortunate consequences.
I would suggest you spend a lot of time playing around with the Weapons and the non-kit utilities earlier on as when you start playing end game content, you will be using kits almost exclusively.
Kits are your weapon swap. Equipping a single kit gives you 19 skills equipping 5 gives you 35.
Again, they aren’t a proper weapon swap. Any other class gets it by default, even atypical ones like elementalists (where their class mechanic and weapon swap converge into a single mechanic).
You didn’t mention the case where we have zero kits, by the way. What about our weapon swap then?
If they’re optional, playing without kits shouldn’t be an issue. And yet…
Engie is all about customization, you decide how many skills you need to be effective 15 or 35.
Sure, in theory it would work that way.
In practice they have to balance over the upper spectrum so that having that large number of skills doesn’t end up making you overpowered. Making single skills (like, all the other utilities) mostly irrelevant.
Only in PvE and only because it is so DPS obsessed.
In PvP, the loadout is more more relaxed. Of the three Meta builds, each uses a different amount of kits from 1 – 3. There, Elixirs more than hold their own.
As Turrets are the requisite kittenty utility line that all classes seem to have, that just leaves gadgets as the line that needs to be able to meaningfully compete.
Keeping the above in mind, in all modes, the best way to ‘fix’ kits is to:
A – Concentrate all hard hitting kit damage skills in 1 – 2 kits. Gives more incentive to bring other utilities since kit swapping to get the hardest hitting skills will not be needed.
B – Buff gadgets by giving them a passive and an active effect. These should be comparable in efficacy to the 1 -2 skills we bother to bring kits for anyway.
I don’t like the turret, it dies too fast with a fixed location. The old method I used was more fun, and practical, I can click med kit, then click out of med kit to a flame thrower and move on. Turret’s take maintenance and repair. Now if they self healed like they used to I could see taking a healing turret. Also the Elite skill supply crate covers heal turret if necessary and it’s place-able still.
That is how the skill is designed to be used, but that is not how you use it.
You are supposed to summon it, immediately overcharge it then pick it up for a 15 sec cooldown.
If you need extra healing, immediately detonate it after the overcharge for a 20 sec cooldown.
Ta-da. One of the best healing throughput in the game.
Our weapons and utilities – kits themselves – are all balanced over kits’ forceful use and continuous swap. Just giving a weapon swap when no kit is equipped wouldn’t work. Those other utilities and weapons are still undertuned due to the mere existance of kits, after all.
They should overhaul the class, giving normal weapon swap (even to a kit, if they wanted to, but it isn’t strictly necessary), maybe some normal weapon to the base spec and add some kind of disadvantage to kits (like, cooldown on swap).
And add an elite spec focused on kits that could make them work sort-of like now, obviously giving up the weapon swap. Except that by doing so it would be a choice, rather than something forced upon the whole class like it is now. And it could properly be balanced separatedly.
Or we can leave the class as it is and not completely change how it functions based on your whims.
For PvE even a scrapper still uses nades and needs the vuln and dmg on explosions. And noone with a sane mind will abandon the by far best damage modifier: modified ammunition.
Unless your goal is supporter or tank in raids
•_•
Even then, you want to balance support and DPS. The scrapper tanks from the BWE still used nade for significant DPS.
I don’t think Scrapper goes well with Explosives/Firearms. I wasn’t able to make a build that did decent damage using that in BWE3. If those of you thinking that is your build are going purely on theorycrafting and didn’t get to use it, don’t be disappointed if it doesn’t turn out as good as you think it might.
The best that I found was Firearms/Alchemy with Scrapper. It’s weird because obviously Explosives is a DPS line and Alchemy is not, but Alchemy definitely added more to damage for me.
The only thing you really lose out taking Scrapper over Tools is the 10% damage buff with full endurance and Takedown Round. It works just fine with Explosives and Firearms, because nothing in Tools really synergizes with them either.
That said, unless you plan on tanking, I don’t think you should take Scrapper.
Pretty much.
If you have no need for adaptive armor, then baseline Engineer is a much better choice. Higher DPS potential.
Health Insurance: 15% Outgoing Heal Effectiveness
Med Blaster: Heal allies with a wave of healing energy. Heals more for each boon on that ally.
And HT totally pwns it as a group healing tool, and it doesn’t even have any traits for that role.
It’s a design error, as it’s clearly meant to be THE group healing kit, and perhaps other classes don’t have that kitten because we’re meant to take that role, thus we even have traits and kits that only affect healing of others, not ourselves?
What do we NEED as a class? Hammers and drones? Why don’t we NEED our basic class functions fixed too?
boopity zoop.
Yeah, Med Kit can get in line in terms of core functionality that does not seem to work as intended.
Besides, my contention was the implication that we do not already have effective group healing. Which we do.
To me, it seems like you would prefer Med Kit take that role from Healing Turret. Which is a fine position to have. But let us not dissemble: we already do what you want and we do it pretty well. You just do not like HOW we do it.
I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.
Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.
And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.
What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?
Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.
Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.
The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.
My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.
Ascended trinkets aren’t easy to get in ‘normal’ play. My normal play doesn’t include fractals, and I think I might have dropped maybe 9 ascended pieces in 3 years of playing.
Maybe if you could progress in fractals by doing one at a time it would be something that interests me, but gimmick mechanics, jumping, dodge roll or instant death etc aren’t really my cup of tea.
Uh, laurels?
-55 a month for logging in
If you do NOTHING but log in you can get enough laurels to buy a full set of trinkets in exactly 3 months.
If you play normally and do not waste your gold, you should have enough cash/ecto/materials to get all the trickets and well on your way to getting at least one weapon/backpack in this period of time.
And this is starting out on a new account and assuming something like 1 -2 rare drops a day.
GW is a game and not a job.
Seems like you think you are making a point. You are not.
I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.
Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.
And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.
What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?
Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.
Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.
The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.
My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.
Ascended trinkets aren’t easy to get in ‘normal’ play. My normal play doesn’t include fractals, and I think I might have dropped maybe 9 ascended pieces in 3 years of playing.
Maybe if you could progress in fractals by doing one at a time it would be something that interests me, but gimmick mechanics, jumping, dodge roll or instant death etc aren’t really my cup of tea.
Uh, laurels?
-55 a month for logging in
If you do NOTHING but log in you can get enough laurels to buy a full set of trinkets in exactly 3 months.
If you play normally and do not waste your gold, you should have enough cash/ecto/materials to get all the trickets and well on your way to getting at least one weapon/backpack in this period of time.
And this is starting out on a new account and assuming something like 1 -2 rare drops a day.
Due to a design discussion that arose yesterday the recharge on gyros are going back to starting on the death of the gyro.
To help with the recharge going back to the gyro death the recharge themselves are being dramatically reduced. Below is a before and after to help clarify what is happening.
On Cast Medic Gyro CD: 35s
On Cast Medic Gyro Duration: 14s
CD at full duration: 21s New Medic Gyro CD on Death: 20s
On Cast Purge/Bulwark CD: 35s
On Cast Duration: 15s
CD at full duration: 20s New Gyro CD on Death: 20s
On Cast Sneak Gyro CD: 45 seconds
On Cast Duration: 30s
CD at full duration: 15s New Sneak Gyro CD: 20s
This amounts to an overall buff to gyro recharge as the net recharge time is reduced on all gyros except sneak gyro, which is effectively a buff if the sneak gyro would have been destroyed anytime before the final five seconds of its duration.
Blast Gyro’s toolbelt skill, Bypass Coating, is going to be a stunbreak.
And this is why I assume devs are usually pretty hesitant about sharing balance info before they are ‘done-done’. You might catch some kitten for this Irenio.
For what it is worth, I always thought that this is how the Gyros should be fixed.
That being said, what prompted this reversion? I think Gyros still lack that ‘oomph’ needed to truly have them be competitive utilities, do you agree with this? Do you have any plans to address it if you do?
Will the detonation skills get a buff? With the right buff, they could help improve Gyros immensely.
I just have a vision of how i wanna play thief & that doesn’t include sb not to mention when thieves talk about the weapon they never mention 1-4 skills it’s always sb #5 why is that?
So there is no d/d thieves running around in pvp?
Not any that want to be effective.
Your topics asks for help understanding the class. If you simply just want to play D/D, you should create a new topic titled: ‘Help me make the most effective D/D thief in the meta’
And even then, most people will suggest you use SB as your second weapon.
A lot of people talk bad about Sneak Gyro. I suspect they did not play it.
You still have mad stealth while a player attacks your sneak gyro, it isn’t dead, and you thunderclap him from stealth. All while he tries to attack the gyro because he had no other option until you become revealed.
It is a very strong close range juke. It is also insta cast so it can deny stomps and CC bursts. Not to mention its game changing tool belt.
You are right about pretty much everything. Personally though, I REALLY dislike the toolbelt.
Engies are already a natural counter to thieves. I would have preferred something I’d get a bit more use out of.
Mesmers
A much better reason to take it, but still not good enough. If you know the Mesmer is near, you have plenty of other, more versatile tools to deal with the burst. If you do NOT know, then the skill really does not make a difference.
As an Engineer, I am MUCH more concerned about Necromancers or getting burned to death.
And In general, I prefer soft, multipurpose counters.
Isn’t Mr. Sneaks Kind of a Soft Counter to Mesmers? They can not shatter on you if they don’t see you. They can’t stealth Shatter you for example. If they want to kill you, they have to destroy the Gyro first.
It is a soft counter to a lot of things. Part of why I love it so much.
Wished the toolbelt was as elegant.
I was referring to revealing them. I don’t have any issue with the burst. My issues are the constant stealth and re-target. A revealed Mes is a dead Mes.
Well, the nerf to PU has significantly hurt that jig.
So I look forward to the resurgence of the shatter mes.
A lot of people talk bad about Sneak Gyro. I suspect they did not play it.
You still have mad stealth while a player attacks your sneak gyro, it isn’t dead, and you thunderclap him from stealth. All while he tries to attack the gyro because he had no other option until you become revealed.
It is a very strong close range juke. It is also insta cast so it can deny stomps and CC bursts. Not to mention its game changing tool belt.
You are right about pretty much everything. Personally though, I REALLY dislike the toolbelt.
Engies are already a natural counter to thieves. I would have preferred something I’d get a bit more use out of.
Mesmers
A much better reason to take it, but still not good enough. If you know the Mesmer is near, you have plenty of other, more versatile tools to deal with the burst. If you do NOT know, then the skill really does not make a difference.
As an Engineer, I am MUCH more concerned about Necromancers or getting burned to death.
And In general, I prefer soft, multipurpose counters.
Isn’t Mr. Sneaks Kind of a Soft Counter to Mesmers? They can not shatter on you if they don’t see you. They can’t stealth Shatter you for example. If they want to kill you, they have to destroy the Gyro first.
It is a soft counter to a lot of things. Part of why I love it so much.
