From a first little test: As expected the gyro can’t follow the engi which is under speed or super speed -> big drawback in PvP.
Moreover the gyros seem to have difficulties to know where to go (zig zag) when the engi starts to be a bit far (around 600 m).
Consequently for sure it will be useless in WvW. And for sPvP it will depend.The hammer seems quite nice, wait to test a bit more as well as the traits.
Yeah this is a bit of a problem, but not a BIG problem.
I am finding that I only pre-summon them immediately before a fight. They have a very short lifespan so it makes little sense to run around with them.
Do I have to unmap F as my interact key?
No, your interact changes if you are targeting the player and the trait is off-cooldown.
I actually LIKE this about the skill. It is HILARIOUS in PvP.
Stories man, details details.
A Ranger and an Engineer try to take a point from a Neophyte Cele Necro…
…they die.
The end.
I actually LIKE this about the skill. It is HILARIOUS in PvP.
I personally think the cooldown balance discussion is sort of backward.
Gyros should have effects that merit going on cooldown on death rather than just giving them cooldown on cast.
Would bring some interesting play and use of the utilities. Similar to Healing Turret.
No, there should not be a penalty at all. There are some instances where it is totally unavoidable. Imagine if other classes were penalised like that? Nobody else is, nor should Ranger be. A dead pet is already the loss of 4 skills and a decent % of our damage.
if you balance pets around content where pets are getting massacred like dungeons and fractals, you make pets really strong in regular (baseline) content: open world champions, veterans, etc.
Rangers already have an easier time with those enemies than many other classes simply because of the hits their pet can take from that. that’s why brown bear rangers are a thing: it’s a path of least resistance.
people should also need to care if their pet dies. being able to swap to the next pet a few seconds later no matter what means you don’t get invested even a little in keeping your pet alive. It also tilts the game away from tankier pets and towards damaging pets.
pets just arn’t built to take the damage thrown out by attacks you are intended to be forced to dodge in higher difficulty content. Sometimes they are immune to these sort of dangerous attacks, sometimes they are not. It is applied inconsistently throughout the game. Pets deserve a unified solution to this problem that doesn’t force people to take a certain skill.
like a ‘wary’ buff in dungeons/fractals/etc. that just makes them highly resistant to environmental damage in big boss AOEs, or dodging when the player does, or somethin.
The ‘wary’ buff is an inelegant, but extremely effective proposal.
All pets for all classes should get something like this in Dungeons/Raids/Fractals tailored to the pet/illusion/turret.
It is definitely going to get nerfed. WAY too overtuned.
A 6sec dazelock is a death sentence. Scrapper also has some daze potential that may also require so nerfs as well.
Hopefully DPS is significantly upped in the process though.
If you find this happening often enough, you should not be using Elixir S.
I don’t run Elixir S in any casual builds because of this, the change would incentivise me to do it.
In more compentetive PvP builds however, I run it almost out of necessity. The stealth from Elixir S and the Invuln from the drink is just really good for stomping or surviving. However, I often acidently press Elixir S after using Rifle #4 and that tends to completly ruin the combo.Sure you can say “learn to play” or “engi is not for you” as tradition on this forum board. I’m just stating a suggestion that would make me happy for taking Elixir S as it is a pretty big requirement for surviving in this burst heavy PvP meta, and I had no intention of offending anyone with it.
Not offended mate, just a friendly suggestion.
I accidentally use it all the time when I am cycling often between playing PvE and PvP. And this as well as your issue IS a l2p thing.
As previously mentioned, not being able to exit is used to balance the skill. That said, Self-Regulating defenses should definitely have an exit.
So maybe the exit could have a consequence? Like losing a chunk or all of your endurance. Would work for both the trait and the skill.
(edited by lorddarkflare.9186)
My aim is to test the following first:
-Gyro-heavy Build
-Rifle Power Build
-Pistol Condi Build
I am worried about the above, so I intend to test them heavily and give feedback as quickly as possible.
The things I want to test out for fun:
-Cele Hammer. Still trying to determine quite how I am going to effectively stack might though.
-Bunker
It would be nice if they the added weapon swap key while in Elixir S to break out of it. Sometimes I just want to *break stund to get back into action quickly. *
If you find this happening often enough, you should not be using Elixir S.
This is pretty cool but I always enjoy watching your stuff.
I have not yet seen the stream: How well does the build perform?
I think it may be time to just accept that Flamethrower is as good as it will ever get in terms of damage.
The kit has a ton of utility, an awesome toolbelt skill and now a less cruddy auto-attack.
And let us not forget that it is part of several Meta builds.
Having it compete with the other kits probably requires either they get downtuned or Flamethrower loses some utility.
Juggernaut is still a problem though. The trait needs to catch up with the fact that no one will ever camp Flamethrower.
Hey fellow Engis,
I am reading here and the ranger forums heavily. As others have called out (accurately), working on the last two elite specializations to be revealed is taking up the vast, vast majority of my time, even with assistance from the rest of the team.
This weekend you’ll be able to test out a lot of the theorycrafting (some of which had my eyes widening – in a good way) that you’ve been doing and offer even more awesome feedback.
Things you’ve brought up, like the Scrapper’s lack of a stunbreak on either their utilities or traits is getting acted on, as well as a few more changes to core Engineer and bugfixes.
Thanks for giving us the feedback. I’m glad to hear that.
Can we please get some information about the class mechanic? There are engineers which mainly play PvE are worried about this, cause it doesn’t give us the feeling of something new and playstyle changing. So, are there plans to add something to that or don’t you think there is the need to change something?
I would like an answer to this as well. If only because I am tired of people asking it.
You guys realize there is a trait that gives you eight seconds of stability when you activate a gyro, right? Whether the gyro successfully stomps or not is irrelevant. What matters is that it gives you stability, too.
When you activate Function Gyro.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stabilization_CoreThanks for the clarification. I thought it extended to all gyros, but I suppose it’s just the one. I don’t see how this changes my overall point about the Scrapper resolving our need to take elixirs for a safe stomp, and if anything this makes the trait line only seem stronger since you get a safe stomp every 30 seconds while still getting three utilities to choose from.
I never said the traits were bad. I say the “new mechanic” is too circumstantial to count.
If you’re a PvE-only player, maybe. And I know this statement may sound frustrating, but I don’t think ArenaNet is concerned with catering to PvE-only players, especially in the state the engineer currently is there.
And even then, there are a lot of instances where a secure resurrection is huge in PvE. There are times like when you’re fighting Mai Trin or Grawl Shaman where trying to res someone will only get you killed as well. In such instances the function gyro will be very useful, and I wouldn’t be surprised if people end up using it off cooldown over the weekend when learning the new raid. Let’s ease up on calling it irrelevant just yet.
Pretty much.
I think Scrapper is lacking in a LOT of flavor when it comes to the class mechanic, but the actual nuts and bolts of the class are really interesting and worthy of consideration. Especially in PvE and WvW to a lesser extent.
Rangers need the attention. They are having a mini-revolution at the moment.
We will not get much from devs until after the BWE.
(edited by lorddarkflare.9186)
Good work Nightmare.
Do we have a graph for actual DPS rotations? That is where I think FT really falls behind unfortunately.
Actually the old one fell behind immediately with the AA.
But yeah, not having any of the heavy hitters made it a lot worse.
Look at all the red posts. Let this night go down in history as The Ranger Riots of 1328 AE.
If nothing else, this should entice the devs to give the class the same treatment Mesmers received in GW1.
The heal had to change and everyone knew it. You can’t have it that the only reason a Ranger is in the meta is because of a single overpowered trait/heal. Its a bad design choice, leads to less diversity, and is a nightmare to balance around in the future.
Having this heal remain unchanged would have been an anchor around our necks when it came to buffing the many weak areas that currently exist for Rangers.
We all know that it had to be changed. No one is truly disputing that. Its that they went way too kitten far and one of the aspects of the nerf was one of the stupidest we have ever seen. Thats whats got people upset.
Actually, quite a few people are upset it was fixed at all.
And even amongst those who claim to only be upset at the might cap, the reaction is disproportionate enough to suggest otherwise.
This is much more in-line with the sort of buffs the patch seems to have had.
The ranger needs fixes, but not like this.
You are going say with a straight face that THREE stacks of might is fair? Seriously?
When it had zero boon transfer before the patch, yeah that is fair.
It also wasn’t used in any gamemode before the patch. Hell, even with soldier runes TU is the better option.
False it can be used in both of the meta pve builds condi or power. And if you are running shouts in pvp/wvw people still slot it. Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean other people don’t use it.
It’s inferior in almost every way. It heals less than TU, it doesn’t remove conditions when traited, it doesn’t keep your health over 90% nearly as efficiently (for scholar runes), you can’t use it preemptively, it doesn’t provide a water field like healing spring. The only thing you get from it is some worthless boons (swiftness and regeneration). It can be used, sure, just as search and rescue and guard can be used. It’s still outclassed by every other option out there, except for the water spirit.
Its less susceptible to spiking than is TU, it doesn’t potentially have a water field block fire fields. Some worthless boons? So it doesn’t apply might at all now? Actually it still gives might, and it gives small durations of useful boons like prot. This is the problem with it being broken before. A skill gets a nice little buff that is not extreme(and was what was expected when the patch was previewed), but everyone goes berserk because it isn’t broken like it was when the patch went live.
The problem is that Roy took offense to the might stacking, of all things. Despite the fact that several other classes stack might absurdly easily. Boon sharing between ranger and pet should have been baseline from the beginning, but when they finally implement it, their version is so watered down it might as well not exist. It’s a slap in the face, honestly. Professions which are already strong are allowed to stack boons, but the weakest profession in the game is not, because they think that that is balanced for some unfathomable reason.
I do not think it unfair to say: “No, you may not stack an ungodly amount of might in such a sort period of time as enabled by one skill.”
As enabled by one skill two trait lines sigil/rune investment and is dependent on burning your heal ON COOLDOWN.
Right. so you agree that it was a bad skill that should not have made it in.
Its mere existence warped possible balancing of the class and potentially the balance of other classes as well.
All for something that was not even altogether practical in PvP.
Ranger are absolutely right in demanding better from A-Net. We should always demand better, even if it means we do not get to play with a fun toy.
No. I don’t agree it was a bad deicision. The ONLY thing that was overpowered would have been fixed by a straight copy to the nature magic line. The additional nerf to the might was what pushed me over the limit there. I originally expected it to be a copy of the nature magic minor trait. They made it worse than that. Massively so.
The concept of sacrificing your defense for offense was FUN. It was engaging. And it actually made a difference. And it would have been retained if it was a straight copy of the nature magic minor. But in its current form that gameplay is gone.
The cap to might is too restrictive, on that we can agree. It is the only aspect of fix that I dislike.
Granted, the skill is still better than it was before so I cannot muster the rage that permeate this board right now.
The cap should probably be around 10-ish.
This is much more in-line with the sort of buffs the patch seems to have had.
The ranger needs fixes, but not like this.
You are going say with a straight face that THREE stacks of might is fair? Seriously?
When it had zero boon transfer before the patch, yeah that is fair.
It also wasn’t used in any gamemode before the patch. Hell, even with soldier runes TU is the better option.
False it can be used in both of the meta pve builds condi or power. And if you are running shouts in pvp/wvw people still slot it. Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean other people don’t use it.
It’s inferior in almost every way. It heals less than TU, it doesn’t remove conditions when traited, it doesn’t keep your health over 90% nearly as efficiently (for scholar runes), you can’t use it preemptively, it doesn’t provide a water field like healing spring. The only thing you get from it is some worthless boons (swiftness and regeneration). It can be used, sure, just as search and rescue and guard can be used. It’s still outclassed by every other option out there, except for the water spirit.
Its less susceptible to spiking than is TU, it doesn’t potentially have a water field block fire fields. Some worthless boons? So it doesn’t apply might at all now? Actually it still gives might, and it gives small durations of useful boons like prot. This is the problem with it being broken before. A skill gets a nice little buff that is not extreme(and was what was expected when the patch was previewed), but everyone goes berserk because it isn’t broken like it was when the patch went live.
The problem is that Roy took offense to the might stacking, of all things. Despite the fact that several other classes stack might absurdly easily. Boon sharing between ranger and pet should have been baseline from the beginning, but when they finally implement it, their version is so watered down it might as well not exist. It’s a slap in the face, honestly. Professions which are already strong are allowed to stack boons, but the weakest profession in the game is not, because they think that that is balanced for some unfathomable reason.
I do not think it unfair to say: “No, you may not stack an ungodly amount of might in such a sort period of time as enabled by one skill.”
As enabled by one skill two trait lines sigil/rune investment and is dependent on burning your heal ON COOLDOWN.
Right. So you agree that the new WHaO is a bad skill that should not have made it into the game.
Its mere existence warped possible balancing of the class and potentially the balance of other classes as well.
All for something that was not even altogether practical in PvP.
Ranger are absolutely right in demanding better from A-Net. We should always demand better, even if it means we do not get to play with a shiny toy.
(edited by lorddarkflare.9186)
This is much more in-line with the sort of buffs the patch seems to have had.
The ranger needs fixes, but not like this.
You are going say with a straight face that THREE stacks of might is fair? Seriously?
When it had zero boon transfer before the patch, yeah that is fair.
It also wasn’t used in any gamemode before the patch. Hell, even with soldier runes TU is the better option.
False it can be used in both of the meta pve builds condi or power. And if you are running shouts in pvp/wvw people still slot it. Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean other people don’t use it.
It’s inferior in almost every way. It heals less than TU, it doesn’t remove conditions when traited, it doesn’t keep your health over 90% nearly as efficiently (for scholar runes), you can’t use it preemptively, it doesn’t provide a water field like healing spring. The only thing you get from it is some worthless boons (swiftness and regeneration). It can be used, sure, just as search and rescue and guard can be used. It’s still outclassed by every other option out there, except for the water spirit.
Its less susceptible to spiking than is TU, it doesn’t potentially have a water field block fire fields. Some worthless boons? So it doesn’t apply might at all now? Actually it still gives might, and it gives small durations of useful boons like prot. This is the problem with it being broken before. A skill gets a nice little buff that is not extreme(and was what was expected when the patch was previewed), but everyone goes berserk because it isn’t broken like it was when the patch went live.
The problem is that Roy took offense to the might stacking, of all things. Despite the fact that several other classes stack might absurdly easily. Boon sharing between ranger and pet should have been baseline from the beginning, but when they finally implement it, their version is so watered down it might as well not exist. It’s a slap in the face, honestly. Professions which are already strong are allowed to stack boons, but the weakest profession in the game is not, because they think that that is balanced for some unfathomable reason.
I do not think it unfair to say: “No, you may not stack an ungodly amount of might in such a sort period of time as enabled by one skill.”
(edited by lorddarkflare.9186)
med kit was nvr meant to be competitive. its great at low lvl and dont have access to good traits which later replace all the boons this kit provides.
I was under the impression that it saw some use in PvP before the patch that butchered it.
Also it being good for only providing swiftness before lvl 21 is rather pathetic. It’s not even permanent swiftness.
Nah, not really. The most important thing about pre-patch Med Kit was that swapping into it was considered activating your heal.
Once that was removed, the kit lost all practical value.
The entire point of the re-work was to make it useful to someone.
I disagree, it would just add another mandatory trait. If Gyros need such a drastic cooldown reduction (which they absolutely do, and cooldowns should start when they’re cast anyways) then the bulk of that improvement should be baseline. Give the trait an additional -15-20% or so like similar traits.
Putting so much on a trait just to fix Gyros just leads to another problem IMO. Gyros should be functional on their own.
That is the thing though, I think Gyros for the most part WILL be usable on their own.
With some tweaks here and there they will most likely be solid, although largely unimpressive utilities. Going from what little we know, I think any actual changes to them will center around buffing their on-creation and on-destruction effects.
The thing though, is that since our utilites slots have such an insane amount of competition. No amount of buff to the baseline gyros will justify taking more than two at MOST. Realistically, most people will probably run with one or none.
This suggestion entices people to use two or three of them. In exchange, they lose out on the excellent Adaptive Armor and the hopefully buffed Perfectly Weighted.
In short, this is not a suggestion to fix Gyros, it is an effort to make our Grandmasters and utilites more competitive.
(edited by lorddarkflare.9186)
While the lightning field is really cool, I think this is one case where a passive buff is really needed.
While I have grown to accept the gyros as they are, I would welcome some increased competition both in our grandmasters(against adaptive armor) and our utilities (against non-weapon kits and elixirs).
My suggestion? In addition to its current function, Final salvo should halve the recharge of Gyros. Including function Gyro.
Thoughts?
Well, the wiki isn’t updated yet.
Currently the axe does 238 damage every 0.95 seconds. With a 10% buff, this amounts to 262 per hit, or 267 DPS. At 2 × 7 vulnerability per hit, this comes to 14.7 stacks of vulnerability sustained.
Life Blast does 345 damage within 600 range, and hits every 1.4 seconds. This comes to about 246 DPS. With unyielding blast, this comes to 14.3 stacks of vulnerability sustained.
This is… interesting. Rending claws now does more damage than life blast at any range. Unyielding Blast pierces, but Rending Claws basically bypasses any defense that isn’t a straight up block.
If anything, I’d say that axe is actually a decent weapon now.
In actual practice, the above isn’t true. If traited correctly, you can currently achieve 100% crit rate with life blast, which means its actual DPS will always be much higher than anything Axe can do.
He can pull up decimate defenses. 50% crit chance on top of your berzerker’s 45% crit chance+ fury is 100% without deathly perception.
So a reaper will indeed have 100% crit chance on axe.
Doesn’t change the fact that the axe is the crappiest ranged weapon out of all PvE classes, with one of the lowest DPS and no cleaving/group utility whatsoever.
No group utility? Vulnerability is even more important than maintaining might stacks, yes there are plenty of sources of it but I often see it not maxed out. I don’t think enough people stress this point and focus only on how many might stacks you can bring.
I was messing around with axe in my fotms last night and since I play hybrid, my condition duration brought the vuln up to 13 seconds, so I could actually maintain 25 if that’s all I did (which I wouldn’t do for obvious reasons). But even with good comps, I frequently see vuln sitting far too low at like 8-15 stacks. I’m going to try playing tonight focusing on making sure that vuln is always above 20 stacks, and see how smoothly the run goes when someone is dedicated to watching out for it. I always notice how bosses just melt when stacks are well maintained so I expect good results. As a hybrid build I have a unique opportunity to try it, because of my long non-damaging condition durations and variety of conditions I bring.
I imagine, at least because of my lower investment in auto attack damage that a sacrifice in personal DPS will be more than made up for across the group if I watch vulnerability closely.
It bothers me how much people focus on getting their leet ice bow freezes off but don’t pay as much attention to things like vuln.
Going to try slapping a sigil of vuln on it too, since that should be cheap, but if I don’t need or like it I’ll throw force on there. Either way, I’m happy to have a good reason to keep this axe in my bag now. I think there’s no reason not to bring it for fights where melee is too much of a liability. As power or hybrid.
A single ranger with storm spirit is gonna slap 15 permanent vulnerability stacks on a boss. Warrior/Ele/Mesmer will fill up the rest.
Vulnerability is stupidly abundant and by no means this great contribution a necro brings.
And if you REALLY wanted a vuln-bot, you’d just bring an engineer. You get better DPS in the bargain.
Don’t think so that gyro can replace elixir x. Moa counter is very important.
On what build u use Adrenal implant?, most likely on some bunker and if u a bunker u shouldn’t be also fast. And when u use Lock on u also should be fast to catch that thief or mesmer or ranger or running away engi. That make sense for me, bunker with lots of dodges is slow and revealer is fast.
Nothing about a bunker suggests that it needs to be slow.
Also, take inventions if you want to keep the increased movement speed.
Or better yet, learn to deal with Thieves/Mesmers without Lock On.
I personally would FUME if Lock On was made a grandmaster. We enough crappy traits without promoting another one to Grandmaster.
I am not sure OP is the right word. It is bad for general balance.
For as long as it exists in its current state, balance updates and new skills/traits will need to be designed with it in mind.
That is bad.
If we A-Net still wants to make the kit a support kit, I think it should be AoE by default and completely selfless.
Scrapper is meant as “lock down”, meanwhile druids will have acces to 3 skills, which will cause 6s, 6s and 4s daze. Each gyro just got 1s daze. Maybe there should be some changes to that.
That is more of a Druid issue I think. Their new CC utilities are a way overtuned.
I think it is a scrapper issue too. If lock down is really our meant role, they should improve that.
Right, but we are already in a pretty good place with that thus far.
-Gyro Daze on death
-Hammer 5
-Rocket Charge (on insanely short cooldown) + Lightning Fields
These synergise very well with baseline Engineer’s already impressive kitten nal.
Not seeing a problem here.
Not even close. The issue is far deeper than the tiny heal. It just feels bad to use, it needs a complete rework.
Yeah. I would actually prefer it if they gave up on it and made the kit itself more utility than healing.
Scrapper is meant as “lock down”, meanwhile druids will have acces to 3 skills, which will cause 6s, 6s and 4s daze. Each gyro just got 1s daze. Maybe there should be some changes to that.
That is more of a Druid issue I think. Their new CC utilities are a way overtuned.
Becouse we have allready kittenloads feeback posts with some great ideas :/
Chaith’s Idea for Robust Scrapper Identity
Since the Scrapper Reveal
A few trait change ideas
What new Mechanic would you like?
Scrapper Class Mechanics
F-Gyro, Allies’ Aid, & what I Envisioned.
Suggestion Scrapper – unpolished diamond
Lets make Gyros cool together
Gyros/Spirit Weapons Revamp
About gyros and lack of design enthusiasm
Super Speed Stacking
Scrapper-in-Stronghold
Scrapper Design Decisions and Intentions
Complaints about hit points on gyros
Everything S(Crap)per
Final Salvo CD Reduction
Hooray! The worst utilities of any elite spec
How to improve Gyros survibility
Suggestion to make gyros better
Gyro/trait Ideas pre BWE
My honest 1st impression on ScrapperThere’s realy not even half of threads with opinions about Scrapper….
But majority of community thoughts are:
- Hammer is good weapon, skills are fine
- Unique class mechanics almost doesn’t exist, it’s way too situational and non-game changing – almost everyone wants to see it reworked. Engineers feels hurt in this ground compared to rest of the elite specializations.
- Most of Utility Skills are bad (I don’t want to use word “garbage” here) and needs some serious reworks – not fine tuning, or number changes
- Most of traits are good (with some exepctions)
Oh really?… My post was about the effort they are given to the engi class bro…
My question :Why don’t we have something like this?
Was meaning : Why don’t we have thed same dev’s attenction the others classes are having?Because we have not had a beta yet. The interactions in the other forums really only ramped up after the BWEs.
I hope so….
Btw You’re words does not seems valid for the ranger class forum…
Like us they have only seen a single feedback/post thread from Irenio.
I am not really a big fan of traits working on JUST autoattacks and coated bullets just makes pistol feel more like rifle.
Not to mention that Coated Bullets did not do a very good job of promoting the Pistol’s role as a condition weapon.
Would much rather framentation shot got something like a short(2 sec) torment in addition to the bleed.
This is sort of the template I want to work with:
Right now, the rune is the biggest question. Options:
-Hoaelbrak
-Elementalist
-Flame Legion
-Balthazar
I am liking flame legion the most so far.
Shocking speed, Rapid Regeneration and Adaptive Armor are all obvious choices. But depending on the meta, I may bring a gyro or two along and adjust the scrapper traits accordingly (Stabilization Core, Expert Examination, Final Salvo).
So far, I want:
-Tools
-Firearms
-Celestial
I do not have a build quite figured out yet, but I think this may be my starting point. A nice hybrid bruiser.
Becouse we have allready kittenloads feeback posts with some great ideas :/
Chaith’s Idea for Robust Scrapper Identity
Since the Scrapper Reveal
A few trait change ideas
What new Mechanic would you like?
Scrapper Class Mechanics
F-Gyro, Allies’ Aid, & what I Envisioned.
Suggestion Scrapper – unpolished diamond
Lets make Gyros cool together
Gyros/Spirit Weapons Revamp
About gyros and lack of design enthusiasm
Super Speed Stacking
Scrapper-in-Stronghold
Scrapper Design Decisions and Intentions
Complaints about hit points on gyros
Everything S(Crap)per
Final Salvo CD Reduction
Hooray! The worst utilities of any elite spec
How to improve Gyros survibility
Suggestion to make gyros better
Gyro/trait Ideas pre BWE
My honest 1st impression on ScrapperThere’s realy not even half of threads with opinions about Scrapper….
But majority of community thoughts are:
- Hammer is good weapon, skills are fine
- Unique class mechanics almost doesn’t exist, it’s way too situational and non-game changing – almost everyone wants to see it reworked. Engineers feels hurt in this ground compared to rest of the elite specializations.
- Most of Utility Skills are bad (I don’t want to use word “garbage” here) and needs some serious reworks – not fine tuning, or number changes
- Most of traits are good (with some exepctions)
Oh really?… My post was about the effort they are given to the engi class bro…
My question :Why don’t we have something like this?
Was meaning : Why don’t we have thed same dev’s attenction the others classes are having?
Because we have not had a beta yet. The interactions in the other forums really only ramped up after the BWEs.
The devs are not ignoring our current feedback, they are just not engaging us as closely until we can give much more detailed impressions.
-> Getting super speed in lightning fields but super speed does not stack (LOL)
The lack of people that seemed to be concerned about this… well… concerns me. There have been a few threads created to discuss it but they’ve fallen past the first page almost immediately.
If Superspeed continues to “stack” like it does now (meaning replace current duration) that’s a huge blow to what the Scrapper can bring.
I think it is potentially concerning and it has been brought up a few times.
I do not know about anyone else, but I am going to take a wait-and-see approach with superspeed.
The balance patch on Tuesday is the first chance Irenio will have to address this.
My bet is the stacks are adjusted on the D/L prior to launch.
My choice would be if the devs were to buff the benefits provided by superspeed in accordance with its current limit. I think that exercise would be pretty cool if nothing else.
The utilities are all actually really good. They just happen to be slapped onto fragile AI.
If all our new utilities were converted to consecrations or wells they would mostly be pretty solid.
Utilities really good =/= converted to consecration or wells.
I am sorry but first it is illogical what you say, second the engineer is not a magical class, third they will not do this kind of drastic change 3 weeks before release.
Errm, that was a hypothetical, not a direct suggestion.
As in: if the exact same gyro effects were not attached to pets they might be better.
As in: gyros should probably not be pets, but physical manifestations of effects.
I.E.: like a well or a consecration. These are the closest analogues we have to what I would like.
So if someone were to read that in a non-combative mood, they might realize that a way to achieve the suggested effect would be to:
1) – Make Gyros non-targetable
2) – Balance Gyro CD, Effects, and Duration to be similar to those skill types
OR
3) – Re-balance the toolbelt skills which already sorta work that way and swap their positions with the Gyros.
Not really a crazy suggestion. Not a great one either. Solid enough I think.
I hope my more exacting language helped.
<Insert further passive aggressive snipe here>
(edited by lorddarkflare.9186)
I want to make a personal correction to Miltek’s post.
The utilities are all actually really good. They just happen to be slapped onto fragile AI.
If all our new utilities were converted to consecrations or wells they would mostly be pretty solid.
Actually, that is my suggestions: swap the Gyros and their toolbelt skills and rebalance them for their new slots. Utilities fixed. Mostly.
I respectfully disagree. We have plenty of ranged options as is.
I much prefer kitting up to ranged rather than diluting our best pure melee option.
You’re incredibly angry sounding and not really appreciating some potential uses for Scrapper.
Don’t dismiss Hammer, it’s probably the most well done new weapon that ArenaNet has created since launch.
Using Hammer’s defense and utility along with Scrapper’s defensive traits as a backbone, it’ll allow for new offensive options to be taken in PvP and WvW that can now afford to bring entirely different utilities than before. And they will do some hefty damage.
Don’t focus on the Gyros, which I agree are as just as extremely short sighted as Turrets have proven to be.
The hammer isn’t half the god you’re making it out to be. Block is nice, but we have better, on a shorter cooldown. The reflect, granted, is a straight upgrade, but it doesn’t last long at all. I don’t think you noticed in the PoI, but it couldn’t even block all of a single Rapid Fire being shot out by the moose, it would only do about 3/4 of a rapid fire to half. The low cooldown may remedy this, but at least the shield’s reflect is very good at completely destroying those who don’t pay attention, reflecting an entire rapid fire and then some. Electro Whirl doesn’t even block A rapid fire.
Also I don’t get the hype behind lightning fields. I play a lot of elementalist in PvE and not even the leaps make them decent. The blast is useless, the whirl is, once again, random, and the leap, while good for breaking new defiance bars (Remember that they are DAZED, not Stunned, when referring to PvP), is very underwhelming unless you manage to spam it three times with the leap we have. Also, the cast time is a bit bogus. 3/4 second cast time in which you can’t do anything with a very telling animation for a 1s stun? It doesn’t even have that much synergy with Impact Savant, it will go up to a whopping 1.25s. I’d argue that Elementalists Electric Field, even with the “you have to cross” caveat is better as its animation is hard to read and it stuns for TWO seconds. It can also be crossed more than once for more stun/a longer stun with a pushback.
Heck, even the lightning hammer’s 5 is a two second stun, and it’s unblockable! Granted it has the cooldown of Lightning Hammer’s actual cast, but remember the skill also gives you two hammers instead of one. The other can just be used later, even if you simply pick up hammer 1, use the cooldowns, then drop it again.
And I get it that Elementalist isn’t a tank, and that the classes are different and blah blah but would a 1.5s stun be too much? Would it being unblockable be that bad?
And don’t focus on the Gyros?
Are you serious? Don’t focus on the 5 utilities we’re getting? Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you sound? kitten kittening right i’m going to focus on the gyros, they’re the selling point of the E N T I R E SPECIALIZATION. How about we don’t make the utilities garbage in the first place instead of pretending they don’t exist? I don’t know, to me that sounds like a healthier plan than gut’n’forget like turrets got.
For some perspective, most of the new utilities are unimpressive. Even the Druid ones.
Chronomancers are the only ones who come out looking good in regards to utilities.
Well …it’s something new , but … still would have same balance issues or well same or new problems aswell in my opinion.
Gyros will be like turrets some will be tested out and then we will see.Probably unchanged ,since healing turret is the best healing for us and the gyros are kind of well they feel sadly like a waste (?).I mean I would really like to use them and i think i would test and play around with them for sure,but so far i think and they will be like turrets.Also in the stream we saw TWO majors problems (!) as support gyros.
They had issues with following + they got busted so quick + They are timebased.Also they counter their own “support” like the stealth gyro.It grant you stealth , but also it lure every AI or enemy straight to you,which will probably more frustating ,then awesome.
What i think we all wanted something “NEW” which could be a option to replace kits .It sounds like many ppls feels “forced” to play with kits and may was hoping for some diffrent mechanic like some ppls was hyping for some “ressources” for building minions.
There will be a beta so we can test it and probably enter the jungle with a few major bugs and maybe just with kits and hammer,which is kinda weird , since utility skills should be more usefull.I mean that’s why WE are using KITS instead of TURRETS right ?
Anyways maybe it will be changed or not.Or some geniuses will find a way to make them usefull to use them.
Also it’s an idea ,which i really like as an engineer.Just those Gyros kind of bother me,since they will be “dumb and useless”as turrets or even worse , since they try to follow you and getting destroyed really easy by those monster out there in the jungle.
Still your idea is nice ,but it would have the same or other problems ,which can’t be balanced like other ppls said.
Let me save you and those people some trouble:
-Kits will never be replaced, except maybe by other kits
-The class is balanced ENTIRELY around kits. It is extremely hard to balance the class for both kitted and kitless play. It may be possible, but A-Net has failed 3 years running.
-The only hope for a spec that does not still rely on kits is a spec that EXPLICITLY addresses kits (i.e.: gain significant advantages when no kit is equipped + weapon swap)
Keeping the above in mind should keep future unreasonable expectations in check.
20% no CD on high healing power builds is basically elixir infused bombs. A little less, but doesn’t require spamming a single skill so it’s fair IMO.
Not even close to elixir infused bombs. EIB healed you for each bomb. You never spammed a single skill. At least I didn’t. As far as I am aware, this trait simply gives healing you have to create, for the most part, through healing skills, and gives some of it to those allies in range. EIB simply gave you some sustained healing when in bomb kit. Giving it value as a front line weapon kit.
I personally like it a lot more than EIB for the simple fact that it does not require you to camp a kit.
Any time you find yourself camping pretty much anything as an Engineer you are most likely being sub-optimal. There are exceptions (mostly WvW related) of course.
That said, I would buff it even a little bit more by adding the following: gain 50 health whenever you inflict damage. Might be a bit much though.
Necromancer gets reaper form and new skills to go with it
Warrior gets beserker and new burst to go with it
Mesemer alacrity and a new shatter that is cool
Elementalist cool new overloads for their elements
Guardian New virtues a chain, leap and shield effects
Revenant gets to increase outgoing and incoming boons by 50% himself and others around him
Thief gets new dodge bar and effects
Rangers get to change into a celestial being for some timeWhat do the engineers get the scrapper?
Pointed at by the others and laughed atIndeed, going from Engineer to Scrapper will have extremely little learning curve, basically none, if you don’t take hammer.
Function Gyro needs to be pillar for the identity of the Scrapper, what really sets apart a Scrapper from an Engineer. This is the class mechanic we get from the first minor trait, a parallel to Reaper’s Shroud, Celestial Avatar, Overload Attunement, Continuum Split, Dragonhunter Virtues, Legendary Dragon Stance, Primal Bursts.
Other than the Engineer, only the Thief’s third dodge bar doesn’t really alter the playstyle significantly.
Currently, the Scrapper defining minor trait reads this: “You gain access to the Function Gyro, which can finish a foe or revive an ally at range.”
What I would suggest is:
Function Gyro: Gain access to up to 3 non-combative Function Gyros which encircle you. Periodically construct a function Gyro every 60 seconds. Command a Function Gyro to join the fray to finish foes or revive allies. (20s CD).
Reworking Impact Savant, the last Minor, as well:
Impact Savant: Deal 4% more damage, and reduce the duration of incoming stuns by 10% for each encircling Function Gyro.
What this accomplishes is creates a system of Gyro management that Scrappers in all game modes would be able to manipulate to their benefit. PvE Scrappers would enjoy great uptime of a 4-12% damage modifier. Non PvE Scrappers would get help from a Function Gyro every 20 seconds if they managed production well, and didn’t deplete resources.
Best of all, it’d be a constantly present theme that adds a bit more substance to the Scrapper’s core class mechanic, keeping it closer to the same feel players had when watching the Scrapper in the HoT trailer.
As has been noted, this is by far one of the better suggestions. Instead of replacing what we have been given, it builds on it in a reasonable way.
The only suggestion I have is to to have one of the minor traits buff superspeed. I would prefer a small attack speed boost, but really anything that justifies its crazy 1-stack limit.
The FT kit as a whole could use some work. Since Anet decided to scrap the fuel idea with gyros and just went with duration instead, they should implement it for the FT kit instead. When using the FT kit a fuel bar pops up above your endurance bar, using skills uses up fuel(so the AA would still have a channel, limited by how much fuel you have left), fuel recharges when you’re not using FT attacks, add an extra effect to Juggernaut that’s something like “Deal more damage with your flamethrower attacks the less fuel you have.”
This is misinformation.
We do not know for sure if such an idea was scrapped.
What we DO know is that the duration was flavorfully referred to as fuel.
I definitely agree Gyro cooldown needs to start when they’re first created. Adjust cooldowns from there if necessary.
Also they need something to protect them from getting blown up immediately. The more I think about this the less I believe it is as simple as just health buff or damage negation as both of those options do not scale well with increasing numbers of enemies. It’s either well balanced in group AOE fights with lots of damage flying around and overpowered in solo, or well balanced for solo and useless in group. This may just be a product of how the game works, if so this explains why it’s so hard for them to get turrets right. But if that is true why did they try again with Gyros?
Maybe each Gyro gets a “Gyro Armor” buff. This buff pulses on them every second, -X% incoming direct and condition damage for each enemy they can “hit” with it in 1200 range. Let’s say you 1v1 in PvP, the Gyro is only detecting 1 enemy with each pulse of their Gyro Armor so it is balanced. Then you move to middle point to join a team fight. Now there are 3 enemies, so it’s a little sturdier and you can still get use out of it.
To be honest I don’t think that’s a perfect solution either, but the more I think about this the more I’m just really confused why the decision was made to go with more AI and seemingly learn nothing from past mistakes. Frustrating.
I am willing to bet that the current devs are not the sames ones who had to deal with turrets.
Anet just cant balance the elementalist right:
problems with d/d ele was its regen/condi cleanse, not it’s burning.
Burning damage was a global problem, and it is much worse on guardian than on ele and you didn’t even nerf it there? Guardian ticks can go over 6k/second.Now the fire line is back to being a crappy line for the wrong reason and might on cantrips, which was essential for staff builds using fire (just to keep damage on par with air line) has been nerfed because of d/d problems.
Quite honestly, I am happy that the staff build got hit too. It was boring and MUCH too powerful for what it is.
Totally agree, scrapper wasn’t even close to a finished form. There were several things not ready in the scrapper reveal. But it is obvious now, Irenio was too busy to care for his loved child druid and just didn’t care how is scrapper doing. Engineer was just a duty, ranger was his passion. I doubt we are able to fix that, there is just not enough time. And why should Irenio care now, he will be “busy to fix the problems with druid”. We just have to wait for the next elite spec to get any kind of useful.
I was going to post agreement with the bolded, but after giving it more thought, I think I disagree.
Other than the weirdness of the seeing the F-Gyro, the class seems very complete to me. Underwhelming? Perhaps. But otherwise complete.
Also, I do not think it is appropriate to speculate that much into how Irenio feels about the class. These Specs are NOT the responsibilities of single people. They are all most likely designed by committee.
(edited by lorddarkflare.9186)
I feel like Toss Elixir U needs it’s own spell effect and uses instead of copying other classes. Something like a bubble that grows in size and reflects projectiles could fit the elixir theme.
The toss Elixir theme IS to copy other class spells.