Guild Wars 2

Are.1326:

Since they can get boons I’m guessing they can take damage as well. They will probably just die to fast from AoEs and then go on a 60 sec cooldown like some of our turrets.

I would like to think that A-Net has learned from enough fromTurrets, Pets and Minions to not repeat ALL of the same mistakes.

We will find out tomorrow though.

choovanski.5462:

Goldenrevolver.4371:

reading Basaltfaces comment lets me almost feel bad for you engis. im not an engi main. i just run through all the forums sometimes and other classes have the complete opposite opinion about you. like:

engis: “we dont want hobosacks”
anet: “ok” (which as u said needed 3 years)

engis “we dont like new mortar animation”
anet “ok” (but the new one is even worse)

engis “turret engi is free wins for months and they do nothing”
anet “yeah” (and then they completely destroy it)

engi “without speedy kits we dont have 100% swiftness without doing kitten”
anet “sry we will instantly double the swiftness on streamlined kits”

for other professions it seemed like for a long time if an engi wants it he gets it. but this is clearly not the case. atm they are working on the elite specs anyways so its not the time but keep on discussing. ok ignore me and continue

engineer was even nerfed with the trait patch. anet gave us a lot of awful traits and broke a lot of our trait synergy.

Nerfed? Nah. If anything we were buffed.

At WORST the patch was a lateral move.

Certain builds no longer became viable though, but that is hardly unique to us.

insanemaniac.2456:

Linfang.1087:

wow, knee jerk reactions come fast on here. Clearing a condi every 10 secs would be fun

no it wouldnt :X

clearing 3-8 would, but the automated part of “every x seconds” would still be unfun and terrible cuz you have no control over using it when you think you need it.

For most other classes, you would be absolutely correct, but the way our skills work, allows for passive and active play on all our utilities.

Most of those changes do not actually address issues the class has and many of the changes go way over whats necessary.

That said, I think Kodama has the right idea in terms of tuning.

Peras Arche.1239:

Yeah its pretty useless the way it wors now. I wonder why daredevil can have blast finishers on dodge (while having 3 endurence bars) and we have to have a cooldown on it.

It is usually not very productive to compare classes directly like this.

For one thing, having more blast finishers on demand is MUCH more powerful on an engineer since we have very easy access to almost all fields.

That aside, I agree that the trait is useless. I would prefer that it be removed from the game entirely. We have too many useless traits floating about. Traits that are useless due to design more than anything else.

dancingmonkey.4902:

No one is suggesting it is directly related to the engineer as a profession, why would you suggest so? This is simply the engineer subforum, so we discuss it in the context of the engineer here. EIB was a level of viability to the profession that no longer exist. No one is asking you to use it, so why are you against it for those who loved and used it previously? Do you have some example of how the traits existence harmed your personal game play in some fashion previously?

Before I would not care, but now, we are extremely limited on traits. A-Net seems to be serious about the 3 per tier limit.

Every bad trait left and every bad trait that A-Net adds takes away from a slot where a good trait could go.

And more than that, I object entirely to the assertion that EIB was ever ‘viable’. Or that it is/was important enough to bring back over things that would make the profession much more interesting.

Also, generally, I think traits, skills and playstyles that encourage AA-spam and passive gameplay are detrimental to the game as a whole, but that is a different matter.

dancingmonkey.4902:

I think that is the point exactly. Why should using something other then sinister or zerker be kitten in your group?

That is not magically an engineer or a recent issue. That has always been the case.

I do not want it to be the case, and am asserting that EIB, clerics or what have you does not actually fix anything.

At the core, it is an encounter design issue.

paladinecho.3024:

I wanted was to do something besides zerker and condi, but apparently they seem happy to nerf engineer out of every category.

Those were always your choices. Anything else you ran may have been enjoyable to you, but was probably gimping your group: even in a world where ’serker is not the order of the day that would have been a poor choice.

That aside, I am truly sorry that the build you were playing is no longer possible, but guess what: it happens to all of us. There is nothing special or sacred about what you were running to warrant bending over backward to bring it back.

At the very least you should get in line behind the dozens of builds left no longer viable by years of balance.

Bishop.2690:

As an aside I’ve been trying to find a viable elixir gun build and discovered that weapon skills 4 and 5 actually count as elixirs for purposes of HGH. Been playing since release and never realized :|

That is because it was not the case until very recently.

Turrets were never really very good in PvE, and they are much worse now.

There are not really any builds using them. That said, unless you are in an optimized dungeon group, you can run whatever you want to pretty decent success.

robertul.3679:

Just dodge mirror blade and don’t facetank shatters.
Also the soldier build is pretty much immortal.

Yeah, it is absurdly resilient for an engineer build. If I did not hate rifle so much, I would probably play it more.

It makes sense for the Charr and Norn. They are larger and stronger and so are able to handle the kickback one handed.

Weird change I agree.

I am at a loss about this.

In the trailer, the way the character holds the flamethrower is completely different than the way we currently hold it.

Seems unlikely they would add that in just for an environmental weapon. Not to mention the fact that it was presented as a tease.

Someday.3650:

lorddarkflare.9186:

morrolan.9608:

Killyox.3950:

I think it reigned supreme for too long. Either nerf it or change it or level-up other alternatives.

They did change it, its still powerful but say if I’m running condi build I prefer FT to grenades.

Sure, but the FT-based condi builds are super gimmicky and suffer tremendously in team fights.

And this comes from someone who loves double-kit condi and other FT-based builds.

Gimmicky? how so? I’m asking for real.

FT condi builds rely almost entirely on Incendiary Ammo, Incendiary Powder and Blowtorch.

When these are off cooldown, you do very little damage. And one well placed cleanse ruins your day.

morrolan.9608:

Killyox.3950:

I think it reigned supreme for too long. Either nerf it or change it or level-up other alternatives.

They did change it, its still powerful but say if I’m running condi build I prefer FT to grenades.

Sure, but the FT-based condi builds are super gimmicky and suffer tremendously in team fights.

And this comes from someone who loves double-kit condi and other FT-based builds.

Xyonon.3987:

It’s not an obsession of not running with kits. It’s a desire to not run with 4 kits, to use other skills too, not to end up like a warrior with 5 setup heal/utility/elite skills you never wanna touch.

In all fairness, most builds require no more than 2 kits. At least not in PvP.

PvE is a different story. Optimal damage rotations require all 4 kits, but that has less to do with the class and more to do with the obsession the dungeon crowd has with optimal rotations.

You can have respectable damage with a dual kit build as well.

Thaddeus.4891:

lorddarkflare.9186:

I want the kit nerfed to the ground specifically because too much of the class has been balanced around it for much too long

I hope you are doing an hyperbole, otherwise you are not worth listening too. Nerfing to the ground something you don’t like isn’t an healthy way of dealing with stuff.

lorddarkflare.9186:

And before that, grenade 1 was nerfed by a hefty percentage.

The problem with the grenade kit is Explosives. Specifically steel packed powder.

That minor trait is amazeballs. And the grenade kit procs it 3x as much as the other explosive kits.

True. They could buff the damage of grenade and reduce the number to two nades so that the dps stay the same, but the power of Steel packed powder with nade would be reduce a bit. They can even buff steel packet powder after so that Engie stay good at vulnerability, but reducing the difference of capability between nades and bomb.

Of course it is hyperbole.

Although, knowing this forum, maybe I should have been more explicit.

The point I am making is that the class has been balanced around keeping grenades glued to our bar to the exclusion of most of our other offensive options. I think this is a mistake.

Thaddeus.4891:

Killyox.3950:

I think it reigned supreme for too long. Either nerf it or change it or level-up other alternatives.

They already nerfed it. They lost their field and range, which is already a good balancing. At this point, I don’t thing nerfing nade would be a good idea, and I rather buff a little bit some other choice. Because it’s not like enigneer is so powerful, and that grenade reign supreme because it’s just op.

Flamethrower and Bomb mostly need some love. They have some specific skill that are really great, but others are lacking, which drag these kit down.

And before that, grenade 1 was nerfed by a hefty percentage.

The problem with the grenade kit is Explosives. Specifically steel packed powder.

That minor trait is amazeballs. And the grenade kit procs it 3x as much as the other explosive kits.

I want the kit nerfed to the ground specifically because too much of the class has been balanced around it for much too long.

paladinecho.3024:

I used to use grenades all the time, then since the changes I don’t really use them anymore because the mortar has gotten the job done. The damage on the mortar could use some more work, but outside of that its been ok. I do give grenades major credit for the barrage, but outside of that I’m still not convinced that they have found their way away from being condi again.

I do not play WvW, so maybe there is a case to be made there, but for PvE and PvP, specifically replacing Grenade kit for Mortar kit is a mistake.

Elias.3204:

lorddarkflare.9186:

You may not like or enjoy using the kit—lord knows I do not—

Isn’t that the over-arching point of it all? Considering this is a game, shouldn’t it be enjoyable/fun?

Grenade kit just isn’t fun anymore. It’s redundant.

I dislike the grenade kit because it is too good.

The mortar kit does not even come close to it in terms of effectiveness.

If anything, the mortar kit is “redundant”.

paladinecho.3024:

Grenade kit needs some work. It was superior at one point in both condi and crit mode, but since that mega distance nerf on grenades I have found them to be just about useless. The mortar gets the job done for hitting people that are really far away like nades used to. Also the fact that grenades no longer have a combo field effect attached to them makes them way less fun to use. They have been tweaked to failure is what happened. The first thing they need to fix on grenades will be the range. After that the accuracy needs even more improving. That accuracy skill is just about useless to the next degree.

So it would be sorry to see grenades go, but at this rate I wouldn’t miss it much because of how drastic the other changes have been lately. Almost want to stop playing until they calm down with all this new build crafting changes. Its expensive to raise new armor and accessories because they feel the need to keep changing things every other week. I don’t mind change, but its something drastic almost every other week that causes a player to have to change their armor and play style.

Are you serious? There are very, VERY, few good Engineer builds that have not mandated the grenade kit in WvW, PvE and PvP.

Since release.

And that has not changed. You may not like or enjoy using the kit—lord knows I do not—but to assert that it is “just about useless” misses the mark almost completely.

coglin.1867:

Phineas Poe.3018:

You just listed most of the reasons why Elixir Infused Bombs was a bad trait.

It may not be the best trait for PvP, but it is a solid trait elsewhere in the game. I understand this discussion is in the context of PvP. But how often do you use Medical Dispersion Field in PvP? Unless you find that to be a valuable grandmaster trait, why are you so against EIB? I suggest exchanging MDF for EIB. I enjoy the bomb kit, so I just assume have EIB for when I am in bomb kit. I do not camp in the kit, but find thay trait valuable when I do use the kit.

Now you lost me when you suggest it is passive. Because that is not what passive means. You very literally need an action to get the benefit. It is simply additive the actions. Just like any trait that adds additional damage, conditions, cc, or any defensive function to a skill.

I disagree with this statement greatly, but as this is a PvP thread, perhaps the discussion should be had elsewhere.

GrandHaven.1052:

What we need is another trait in the adept explosive slot for bombs to be worth using above nades. Same goes for Grandmaster, but not as badly needed.

They will still be suboptimal cuz of the minors, but the adept should atleast partially compensate for it.

Disagree. I think nades need to be nerfed to the ground and rifle, pistol, bomb and flamethrower adjusted to fill the space.

Grenades have had a deathgrip on our builds since release and it really needs to stop.

coglin.1867:

lorddarkflare.9186:

PierPiero.9142:

i think healing bombs has always been a bad trait. I really don’t miss it but i prefer actual bunker down , so please no healing bombs again …

Agreed. It was a cute trait to use whilst playing around, but at the end of the day, you were essentially giving up DPS to provide substandard healing.

Autodefense Bomb Dispenser really should go though.

Then what is wrong with bringing it back in place of one of the “healing” traits that as far as I am aware of, no one uses? I would rather have what you consider subpar healing with a kit I use, then even less healing and su par damage on bunker down.

The issue I have with Exilir-Infused bomb is that it required we camp bomb in order to be even somewhat effective.

Bunker Down is good—not great—because it triggers regardless of what you are doing.

I would much rather a decently buffed Bunker Down and/or a replacement of Soothing Detonations and Autodefense Bomb Dispenser with better support traits.

PierPiero.9142:

i think healing bombs has always been a bad trait. I really don’t miss it but i prefer actual bunker down , so please no healing bombs again …

Agreed. It was a cute trait to use whilst playing around, but at the end of the day, you were essentially giving up DPS to provide substandard healing.

Autodefense Bomb Dispenser really should go though.

Gaaroth.2567:

WepSwap if no kits is a wonderful solution! * _ *

Our weapons sets do not synergize that well together and the entire class has been wired for kits. So I think at least the base class should be left alone in this regard.

That said, I would like a good faith effort made to have the new spec be kit-less. If for no other reason than to stop the new topics on the matter from being created.

Forge:

-Add Weapons Swap
-All new utilities actively reward kit-less play
-Class Mechanic actively punishes kit usage
-3 – 5 secs penalty on weapon swap for each kit
-penalty to new class F-skill mechanic per kit

Another option would be instead of giving us additional utilities, all the kits are converted to a different skill inspired by the kits they replace.

cupcakesandcatnomz.3924:

Kinda proves that arenanet only selectively listens to its players, gw2 might die because of these kind of bad choices :x

Listening does not mean they are required to act or agree.

Are.1326:

I do not belive we need (or can take good use of) weapon swap. However, I could see us getting a tuned down version of it to support singel-kit / kit-les builds.

By tuned down version, I envision we get the weapon swap key while outside of kits, but instead of swapping the weapon with another, it swaps the Auto Attack. For example, rifle could have the two following modes:

• Snipe, long range, higher crit rate at longer distances, uses aim-down-sight animation.
• HipShot, short range, fires 3 bullets in a narrow cone, uses current hipshot animation.

That way, we would get a more active gameplay in builds that stays mostly outside of kits, while not buffing the multi-kit build that uses all the highest dmg skills when off cooldown. We would also be able to look down the sight of our Predator rifle, while preserving the current animation for people who likes it.

A better solution for this would be to implement what they did with Revenant Spear.

I am actually worried about the viability of the baseline Revenant.

Right now, Herald seems like the best option pretty much every time.

Knox.8962:

TheGuy.3568:

I would probably hold off going condi. Since it relies on burning and as of the moment it will likely be nerfed in the future I would hold off making that hefty investment.

Using a full set of Rabid Gear/Trinkets is only about 5.4% DPS loss over a full sinister build. This should be quite a bit easier to acquire for those who are wanting to try it .

This does not sound quite right. How did you come by that number?

Jake.1430:

I wont lie, I haven’t played too much of the Rev yet, but I don’t think it’s your character shouting. That’s the Legend making noises, not you.
Once again, I could be wrong because I haven’t really done too much with the Rev yet, so I can definitely be wrong, but this is just coming from what I know happens. (That being Legends grunt/growl/shout as you use them)

You are absolutely correct, it is the Legend making the sounds.

morrolan.9608:

lorddarkflare.9186:

morrolan.9608:

Thundaga.4358:

Yet the bomb radius remains unchanged…

this, a thousand times this, plus the bugged pistol 1…….

Pistol 1 is bugged?

Its meant to be an explosion.

Ehh, all we have to go on for that is the preview and they let us know that the skills were in flux.

I do not think they intend to make it an explosion anymore.

I mean, I would LOVE it if it were, but I doubt it.

morrolan.9608:

Thundaga.4358:

Yet the bomb radius remains unchanged…

this, a thousand times this, plus the bugged pistol 1…….

Pistol 1 is bugged?

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I agree with most points, but he complains about throwing gold at the game. That’s what it is, a back-end gold sink. Just like any other MMO, you either pay up front or at the end.

Still, you think they could’ve added one dungeon. One.

I think they have not added any additional dungeons because they do not like that format any more.

I cannot blame them to be honest.

And a hearty good riddance to them.

With a game as fast and dynamic as GW2, turrets always struck me as a poor idea since they forced you to camp your location.

Now if only A-Net would re-purpose them. Quite frankly, the drones we suspect come with the new class would have made a lot more sense as turrret replacements for the base class.

Engineer is your best option. Played optimally, the class sits almost entirely at mid range.

Manuhell.2759:

Drayos.8759:

It should Never be nullified, U dont see them deleting Attunements for Elementalists.. Or Deleting pets for Rangers… or Deleting Clones from Mesmers… We shouldnt lose our core mechanics either.

I can’t see the point of comparing kits to attunements or pet, or even clones anyway. Our main mechanic isn’t kits, but the toolbelt.
Kits are theoretically optional and compete with other utilities.
Attunements and pets aren’t the same – you can’t even choose to not have them.
And clones are given with every mesmer weapon or off-hand weapons – and then used via their main mechanic of shattering them to get various effects.
All of those have a thing in common: they’re forced upon the class. Any user of the class will always have them available, at every time.
The same is true for the toolbelt in the case of the engineer. But not for kits.
Putting them as optional and then forcing their use is both a design and balance blunder. We may have got used to it, but it doesn’t mean it ever was a good idea to do so.

Actually, I think it is really good design. Kits are made mandatory not because anet came from on high and demand that we use them, but instead, they HEAVILY incentivize their use to the point that not using them is obviously a bad idea in most cases.

One reason to give the engy and ele swap is so we don’t have to keep going to our inventory to swap crap around. Anet can just make sure it doesn’t get used in combat. Obviously its not some game breaking issue but quality of life changes are important. They really need to bring back the 4 weapon slots even if you can only have 1-2 “active” in combat. It would make switching between sets a lot easier.

THIS I can get behind.

Exactly what is the purpose of your build? What is the use case?

Also, where is your damage?

Chasind.3128:

it is viable, it’s for condi/burn build.

firearms/alchemy/tools
balth rune, rabid amulet

utilities – flamethrower, toolkit, elixir s, mortar

i sometimes switch flamethrower for bombs

I use a variant with Elixer X. Pretty Fun.

I actually hope the nerf is applied to applications and not the condition itself.

High Risk/Reward play like IA + Blowtorch can then still be viable.

Alarox.4590:

Zenopo.3128:

@lorddarkflare
What’s the reason?!

The best way to use the turret is place it (get healed and get regeneration), overcharge it (get healed, remove conditions, gain more regeneration), and then detonate it in the water field created by overcharging it (get an AoE heal) and deal damage to enemies.

The end result is gaining a heft heal for yourself, removing two conditions, giving you and your allies 7s of regeneration, and damaging enemies. All of this on a 20s cooldown.

It has the most utility and most overall healing/sec of our healing skills.

15 if you do not detonate it (which may be appropriate in less stressful situations).

The fact that does all this and allows for limited counterplay is what makes it so unintentionally well designed.

MrForz.1953:

Mecha Anchor Mecha Anchor Mecha Anchor and Mecha Anchor.

Bought one earlier this week in anticipation. I cannot WAIT.

Zenopo.3128:

Well I picked a poor choice in spending all my time into an engi thinking turrets would be a way to go e.e
Just seemed to interesting seeing how no other game, that I’ve played, allows you to have turrets…except for TF2.

Yeah, there is a good reason for that unfortunately.

That said, healing turret is one of the best heals in the game.

As with the Necro, I think fixing the issues with the class should come independent of the Elite spec.

I REALLY hate the idea of the specs coming in and fixing issues with the classes.

I much rather see Dagger and Sceptor buffed/re-worked.

HGH/Juggernaut is really easy to use. Not nearly the most effective approach, but it is easy and versatile. And does not cramp your hands.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Oh, crap. I just realized that. No, I’m not using Juggernaut. Sorry, I’ve fixed it.

Okay. The build makes a lot more sense now.

I really like Juggernaut, but it does not provide nearly enough benefits to justify camping it ever.

Are you using Juggernaut to just to Pre-Stack might before an engagement or do you camp it whilst blowtorch is on cool down?

I suggest slotting Elixer gun somewhere in there. Aside from having 3 elixers and a ton of utility, Skill 1 provides 2 cover conditions to make sure they stay burning.

The latter seems much more likely.

HgH is the only good grandmaster in that entirely line. It is fine as it is.

The other two traits need serious buffs.

Phineas Poe.3018:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Thank GOD I am not crazy. I have been rolling FlameThrower in both PvE and PvP to great success.

The only thing I am not sure of is Flamethrower aa. Is it as improved as it seems or am I crazy after all?

Flame Jet is still seriously awful and shouldn’t be used.

Yeah, that is what I figured.

For PvE it usually does not matter, but what do y’all use in PvP? The only viable option is Mortar 1 and that is awkward to use in conjunction with Juggernaut.