Guild Wars 2

Xyonon.3987:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Xyonon.3987:

You’re missing the point. It’s not about that any kits #1 should be better than hammer #1. But any damage oriented #2-#5 should be remarkable better than any #1 skill.

Yet grenades auto attack completely blows everything you are saying right out of the water.

If you beleve that’s true, you sure have a lot to learn …

Yup. Grenade is good not because of baseline damage, but because of the explosives line. This is why no one EVER takes grenades without explosives.

Making hammer directly compete with grenades:

-Increase all skills in the chain to hit 5 targets
-All skills in the chain apply 5 seconds of vulnerability
-Remove some of the aftercast
-Decrease the damage

Not very impressive or THAT far off from what we have.

If people just want RAW AoE damage, they should be auto attacking with bombs. Those things hit harder than every other engie auto.

-Stabilization core should be on a minor, should apply to all Gyros. Internal cooldown: 10 secs.

Frenk.5917:

ANort.1425:

They really weren’t thinking when they gave engi a trait for +25% stun duration when engi only has access to 2 stuns, hammer 5 and Supply Crate

This

I concur as well. I expect the trait to be one of the first things Irenio fixes.

It makes no sense, but we have known that since the PoI.

Arantheal.7396:

Would just be awesome if the scrappers class-mechanic were this:
- Gain access to weaponswaps as long as you don’t use any utility-kits.

Still can equip the mortar & healing kit, but would reward us for trying out stuff aside from nades, EG and TK

A good starting point for a class mechanic I agree. Hopefully a future spec does this.

Adamantium.3682:

1k in full Berserker? I don’t think you’re doing full Berserker right. I am seeing 2k+ right now just soloing in my raid setup that consists of Cavalier/Knight/Soldier with a Berserker weapon.

It is 3.3k with Exotic Zerker Armor +Weapon and Ascended Zerker Trickets.

I am also using ruby orbs and the crappy backpack betas received. Power: 2295.

Arantheal.7396:

- 1

unless they become invincible to dmg/condi / cc, are locked tightly to orbiting the engineer & get their cd’s starting on summon, I will not equip them since they’ll almost always perform worse than elixirs or kits.

Dancing around the big issue of supposed supportive utility-skills getting disabled by dmg doesn’t advances the solution.

Necro minions attack you, hence should be damagable
Turrets attack you, hence should be damagable
Ranger spirits just buff the group, hence should be invulnerable
And also engineer gyros MOSTLY just support you, hence should be invulnerable.

- Remove the dmg-part of the shredder gyro and let it AoE-tick fury (or some unique offensive buff, like 150 precission, power or ferocity) instead
- Rename & change blast gyro into some AoE-buffer. Maybe he could actually tick superspeed, or at least swiftness + vigor. This way he could fix the lacking swiftness / 25% movement speed traits on scrapper and make ignoring inventions or tools less hurtful.

I am also a very big fan of having gyros not be damageable at all as well.

The only thing is that most Gyro effects durations/Gyro life would need to be significantly shortened. They would essentially need to be balanced like Wells.

I would welcome that actually.

Yup. They may have been a failed experiment on players, but they would improve most serviveability issues on Gyros.

With their bars, they should be immune to CC effect and extremely resistant to damage.

Without their bars, they should take normal damage and self stun daze for a period of time before trying to resume operations.

These should also be considered in tandem:

-Gyro detonations should be unique to the gyro being detonated

-Improve Gyro speed

-Improve or mostly gut Gyro A.I.

-Drastically reduce baseline gyro recharge. By like 30 – 40 % OR start recharging on summon. Durations may need to be adjusted in order to compensate.

Final Report:

-The class is lacking in flavor. At this point, pretty much any flavor will do so I leave that up to y’all. But I cannot stress how important it is to make the class more than just Engineer hitting things with hammer.

-All Gyros should have a break bar. Unless broken, they should be extremely resistant to damage with it, and slightly weaker than they currently are when without it.

-Gyros need a lot of attention. The one input I will provide is that all the detonation effects MUST be unique. Right now, they are all generic detonations and that is boring to use.

-Superspeed is balanced similarly to alacrity, but its effect is pretty lackluster. I suggest significantly increasing the effectiveness of the effect when Scrappers use it (so a minor trait). My suggestion? Turn it into discount quickness. That might be fun.

-Lastly: I wish y’all had organized the traits similar to how Reaper, Berserker and Chronomancer traits are organized. Compared to them, our trait select feel haphazard.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Engie DPS rotations do not look like that. At all.

Have you ever seen “The Rotation” for burn Engineer that spans 45+ skills?

It is exactly that, down to what I said: Shrapnel, Barrage, Blowtorch, Poison Darts, Fire Bomb, Concussion bomb, ect ect ect with grenade auto attacks in between. It is using high damage skills off cooldown with no thought involved. Blowtorch shows up like 4 times in the rotation because it’s literally just using them as they come up off cooldown.

Also, i’m talking about PvE, not PvP.

Look at what you originally posted and what you just said now.

That rotation at most requires you use two skills from one kit back to back. It is pretty involved, requires good knowledge of cooldowns and most importantly: does significantly less damage if you cannot keep up with it. The power rotation is more forgiving in this regard.

Now, after you have mastered it, it is certainly ‘mindless’ but nowhere near as much as just auto attacking.

And by the way, unless Hammer AA somehow manages to severely outclass skills 2 – 5 on every kit, optimal DPS will STILL require long rotations that at most use hammer AA like like it does grenade AA.

The point is this: Kits would need a massive nerf or Hammer AA severely overpowered (to the point of outclassing all weapons and kits) for kitless builds to be optimal. At least in PvE.

I hate to break it to you, but cooldowns are not hard to keep up with. You’re making it sounds complicated when it isn’t even remotely complicated. In fact, it isn’t complicated at all, it’s as basic as you can get.

And yes, it is mindless. Pressing a button because it is off cooldown and ONLY because it is off cooldown is mindless no matter how far you delude yourself to think otherwise. If you still think “press button when cooldown = 0” and “hard to keep up with” is any more complicated then doing something out of muscle memory and requires “mastery” (Its absolutely laughable to call it mastery by the way) then the argument will really proceed no further then where it is now.

You argue that using an auto attack is exactly the same in every way to following long multi-kit rotations. Moreover, you argue that balance decisions should be based around that inanity.

You are correct, we cannot proceed any further.

Yashuoa.9527:

Or just on all gyro toolbelts but with an x second internal cd.

Would need to be a trait then.

In that case, it COULD go on the lackluster ‘Final Salvo’ GM trait.

Or it could replace/augment the impact savant minor…

displacedTitan.6897:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Engie DPS rotations do not look like that. At all.

Have you ever seen “The Rotation” for burn Engineer that spans 45+ skills?

It is exactly that, down to what I said: Shrapnel, Barrage, Blowtorch, Poison Darts, Fire Bomb, Concussion bomb, ect ect ect with grenade auto attacks in between. It is using high damage skills off cooldown with no thought involved. Blowtorch shows up like 4 times in the rotation because it’s literally just using them as they come up off cooldown.

Also, i’m talking about PvE, not PvP.

Look at what you originally posted and what you just said now.

That rotation at most requires you use two skills from one kit back to back. It is pretty involved, requires good knowledge of cooldowns and most importantly: does significantly less damage if you cannot keep up with it. The power rotation is more forgiving in this regard.

Now, after you have mastered it, it is certainly ‘mindless’ but nowhere near as much as just auto attacking.

And by the way, unless Hammer AA somehow manages to severely outclass skills 2 – 5 on every kit, optimal DPS will STILL require long rotations that at most use hammer AA like like it does grenade AA.

The point is this: Kits would need a massive nerf or Hammer AA severely overpowered (to the point of outclassing all weapons and kits) for kitless builds to be optimal. At least in PvE.

You are talking about semantics and not his actual point at all. If they leave the damage as it is now, Engineer DOES NOT CHANGE when taking Scrapper. You will still use the same rotation except slot 2/3 hammer skills into where you used to use rifle for the same overall effect. Scrapper does NOTHING to up our build diversity which was supposed to be the point of Elites. Scrapper was SUPPOSED to be a lockdown melee bruiser but what we got was just another version of rifle. In fact I think the “lockdown” on rifle is far better than what we see on hammer.

Right now Scrapper fails its primary task of giving us a new playstyle. Releasing it like this will change NOTHING about how engineer plays. It makes no utilities worth taking over kits, the class mechanic is flat out broken both in programming and in gameplay.

Moving some of the damage to the AA and giving hammer a reason to be camped with some synergy between its skills would let us take gasp utilities other than kits. Gadgets, Turrets, Gyros and Elixers (not S or X) would actually make it on to our bar.

Changing the AA does not fix Scrapper.

And you misunderstand the problem: unless kits themselves change, you can NEVER camp a weapon in PvE without fundamentally gimping yourself.

Improving the AA to the point some people suggest just ends up way overturning the weapon in PvP.

And that was not a semantic issue. He said two very different things. And regardless, he is wrong on both counts.

Finally:

Elixirs do not have an issue getting onto our bar. B, S, X and occasionally C are all fantastic.

Turrets and Gyros are not good enough to realistically compete with kits. That is not a ‘kits have a stranglehold on our profession’ issue but a ‘Turrets and Gyros are awful’ one.

In a world where Hammer becomes the Mary Sue of weapons, the only utilities you will ever serious consider are Gadgets, Elixirs and…Kits.

Yashuoa.9527:

Did I understand that we were promised more scrapper related stunbreak?

Not sure if promised is the right word, but yes Irenio has suggested that a stun break will be added somewhere.

I personally hope it is on the Shredder Gyro’s toobelt.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Engie DPS rotations do not look like that. At all.

Have you ever seen “The Rotation” for burn Engineer that spans 45+ skills?

It is exactly that, down to what I said: Shrapnel, Barrage, Blowtorch, Poison Darts, Fire Bomb, Concussion bomb, ect ect ect with grenade auto attacks in between. It is using high damage skills off cooldown with no thought involved. Blowtorch shows up like 4 times in the rotation because it’s literally just using them as they come up off cooldown.

Also, i’m talking about PvE, not PvP.

Look at what you originally posted and what you just said now.

That rotation at most requires you use two skills from one kit back to back. It is pretty involved, requires good knowledge of cooldowns and most importantly: does significantly less damage if you cannot keep up with it. The power rotation is more forgiving in this regard.

Now, after you have mastered it, it is certainly ‘mindless’ but nowhere near as much as just auto attacking.

And by the way, unless Hammer AA somehow manages to severely outclass skills 2 – 5 on every kit, optimal DPS will STILL require long rotations that at most use hammer AA like like it does grenade AA.

The point is this: Kits would need a massive nerf or Hammer AA severely overpowered (to the point of outclassing all weapons and kits) for kitless builds to be optimal. At least in PvE.

Engie DPS rotations do not look like that. At all.

Hmm. Superspeed balance seems to be around its limited application and single stack so I am not sure it it makes sense to then allow it to be strip-able.

If anything it needs a buff.

As for invigorating speed, I think that is just the tradeoff for a scrapper not investing in firearms or tools.

Still, it would be nice to have a sustained swiftness or vigor option in the scrapper traitline…somewhere…

Basaltface.2786:

Well of course it would be nice to get this mess fixed… but we got a 3 year record that shows that drastic fixes like this are something engineers never got. Im fully aware that this is pessimistic but just look at the class. We just now got the magnet fixed and it still doesnt work proper. Look at the turrets… how long where the hitboxes broken? Kit visuals? How long? 2,5 years to get the backpieces away and still are not up to par with other classes in visual eyecandy…not even if they add an entire kit, look at the mortar and tell me this looks good. Bomb kit restoration? How long did that need and it “only” was in numbers not mechanics? And so…soooo much more. To re-work an entire mechanic before HoT hits? This is certainly out of question…not with the “dedication” a-net got if it comes to engineer issues…if it would be roy with the revenant my look at things would be completely different cause he and his team actually work extremely fast on the class and it went from a zero to hero in a rather short period of time…just compare beta weekend 1 and weekend 2 and 3, that was a 180 if i ever saw it.

Of course it would be amazing to get something like glenndevis suggested… id embrace this without any complains like most of the already suggested mechanic re-works cause this is actually awesome and cool…but like i said.. im very pessimistic at this point. Ireno and his team also got the druid…and even if it got its kinks its certainly the spec that got more attention in development then we here…so yea.

I dont want to be the pessimist here.. specially not with engineer beeing my favourite class… but the odds are against us here… Made myself sad now

I think it is more productive to improve the current vision that A-Net has for the class rather than redesign it from scratch.

It is MUCH too late for such complex mechanic changes. Even with all the feedback that suggests that this is exactly what they should consider.

Expecting drastic changes is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Miltek.2104:

What if, we add some Funcionality to Function Gyro. Function Gyro uses different ability when you press F on different Target:

• When used on downed ally : Defibrillator – function gyro revives downed ally using built-in defibrilator
• When used on downed enemy: Lethal Injection – function gyro injects toxic elixir into downed enemy, finishing his agony
• When used on living ally(can’t use on self): Energy Shield – function gyro covers target ally with High Voltage energy shield which destroys incomming projectiles, and grants stabilty/protection
• When used on living enemy: X-Ray – function gyro scans target enemy, inflicting Expose. Expose – target takes 7% more damage from any source, inflicted dazes and stun duration increased by 33%
  
  With this kind of change Function Gyro is realy functional and as player we need to decide are we going to save it’s cooldown for stomping/reviving or we gonna use it early to expose enemy or support ally.
  
  Anyway, my biggest fear is that tons of feedback players are leaving on engineer forum to make Scapper “elite” specialization won’t be answeared an we will get only changes in numbers like dmg, cooldown etc.

When it comes to the function Gyro, I generally like this idea (and other similar to it).

To augment this: Each possible effect has its own cooldown(30 -60 secs depending on effect) and appears as a buff on your character when available as to allow counter-play.

For flavor, the buffs can manifest as ‘non-combative gyros’ like Chaith’s proposal suggests, but I really do not care about that at this point in time.

Hammer:

The biggest issue with this weapon is the after cast on Hammer 1 and Hammer 2.

Reducing these would make the weapon feel much nicer to use and increase DPS in a more organic way.

The might and vuln are useless:

-In Solo PvE: You should not be camping hammer long enough to have more than 1 or 2 stacks of each. Useless.

-In organized PvE: the might/vuln bots are already taking care of this. Useless.

-In PvP: Better here. Some fiddling needs to the might an vuln stacks to make it better.

Either way, there is way too much might and vuln being thrown about right now In general and definitely too much on the engineer.

My secret dream/hope? Keep the aftercast as they are and swap out Might and Vuln:

-Chain 1: confusion
-Chain 2: torment
-Chain 3: burn

Or really, any damaging conditions at all would be nice on Hammer 1.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Brujeria.7536:

The AA is fine, it applys might AND vuln, and is not even bad at that. Also The attackspeed is quick for a two handed weapon.

The rest of the skills need a slight till medium damage nerf, they deal way too much damage ontop of their intended effects. A weapon should never have 4 skills with such high damage values, else they turn into a skillspamfest just for the DPS.

I think Shock Shield could be shaved a bit. The rest, I think, are fine.

Yeah, shock shield is almost just another DPS skill. In would like to see a slightly longer block if the damage is nerfed though.

LunacyPolish.4602:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Uh, no? We have plenty of sources. More stability—especially more AoE stability—would actually be OP.

Yeah because screw anything that would actually create a viable alternative to GWEN, and screw anyone who realizes the pirate ship meta is worse than the hammer train. :p

I had no idea we were discussing WvW. Happens a lot on this board.

Sorry.

That said, OneHitWonder’s suggestion seems to be a pretty good approach. The solution does not (and probably should not) be a copy of ‘Stand Your Ground’ to be good.

Uh, no? We have plenty of sources. More stability—especially more AoE stability—would actually be OP.

Deax.1572:

Mass Momentum does not convert 10% toughness into power, it converts about 6%

Hammer AA feels clunky, slow.
Hammer 3# also feels clunky and doesn’t hit the target 3 times when they move.
It has the same pause as daredevil did after each dodge in BWE2 thus making it a poor escape/chase skill.
Heal Gyro is fairly nice others are “meh” by comparison.
Stealth gyro has no place in wvw/pvp but is nice in pve
Final Salvo: could use a bonus 20% CD reduction on gyros to make the trait worth while.
Recovery Matrix: This trait triggers twice with healing turret once when placed and 2nd time when overcharged.

Shhhh!

:P

Phineas Poe.3018:

This again? Seriously…

We are doomed to have (the same) people kitten about it forever.

zinkz.7045:

Arantheal.7396:

Still, the warri AA can hit like a truck (3.5k hits on knight/zerker mix are nothing uncommon)

Well warrior is my least played class, and frankly I never play hammer on it, when I look at the wiki there seems to be very little difference between the engy AA & warrior AA:

engy:

AA1 – 323 (0.8)
AA2 – 323 (0.8)
AA3 – 404 (1.0)

warrior:

AA1 – 333 (0.9)
AA2 – 333 (0.9)
AA3 – 444 (1.2)

Or is the wiki wrong? Or do you play with more damage modifying traits in your warrior build?

edit:The wiki isn’t wrong, just tried out both in PvP against the golems with no traits selected, using same trinket, both put out very similar damage numbers, with warriors marginally higher.

The third AA of the warrior auto also hits 5 targets instead of 3.

Helcor.9527:

Least of our problems. How about an increase to our access to super speed to help synergy with the rapid regeneration trait…

Our access to super speed seems pretty solid. Good enough from what they are trying to do with it.

The problem is superspeed itself. Not only does it not stack, but its inherent effect is pretty lackluster.

Also, Rapid Regeneration does not seem to scale with Healing Power. At all.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

The problem isn’t the damage. The problem is the aftercast. If the whole combo actually took 1.5 seconds to execute it would be a very good combo. The problem is it takes closer to about 2.1 or more to execute because of the godawful aftercast.

If you want to see it for yourself, go into PvP and start hitting a golem, then chug Elixir U and be amazed at how pronounced the kitten aftercast is.

Yup. It affects both DPS (which I am not entirely concerned about) and the ‘feel.’

Another possible fix:

-Put 3 stacks of 4 sec might and vuln on the third skill and dump most of the aftercast on it.

Arioso.8519:

Mercurias.1826:

Wasn’t healing bombs almost never used when it existed because the heals were tiny and the rest of the trait line wasn’t terribly good as it was?

I mean, when it existed it was often outright mocked right here on these forums as a bad trait.

Am I the only person who remembers this?

So why do people desperately want it back suddenly?

There were always people that enjoyed using sub-optimal builds, as shocking as it may be to believe. I bet there are even 2 or maybe even three players that use the battering ram once in a while. (Wierdos)

It was useful trait regardless, but a woefully underwhelming grandmaster in a very weak trait-line. If it DID still exist in the current inventions, alchemy or explosives line, I think it would actually see a lot more play than it used to, at least compared to some of the new traits that nobody uses, like thermobaric detonation… or pretty much anything else in the whole explosives line if you’re not running grenades. It was mostly having to go full into the terrible inventions line that killed it. Now inventions is good. so maybe it would have still worked.

It would still need a significant buff for the post-Hot meta.

On a sidenote: I have started using personal battering ram on my scrapper. It is awesome.

One thing I will say: If people want the trait back they should lobby to have the old functionality merged into soothing detonations and apply to all explosions.

Now it is useful to everyone.

Bish.8627:

Hammer is great but #3 needs some tweaking. The auto attacks need to be a tad quicker and possibly have confusion added to the last swing or on #5. OR a damage boost, but just small making it near bomb (as none of the skills hit as hard as say jump shot)

Gyros, well. The healing gyro needs 5-10 seconds off its CD as for now its toolbelt is the only reason to take it. Otherwise the turret is still our best option even with the decent toolbelt skill, cleanse gyro is not going to take a spot, so maybe roll it in to heal gyro and keep the cooldown? Spinning gyro is ok, but its CD is again way too high for so little, the toolbelt is nice, but needs to daze and all the pulses not just the first.

Now for for bulwark gyro, its toolbelt needs to be a stunbreak, this really needs to happen. You basically cannot move away from kits or elixers because we have only a few stunbreaks, the gyros do not offer that sort of utility. With a stunbreak it could become a much stronger option.

Sneak gyro would be great if it stacked stealth quicker/kept up

My only other concern is that all of our swiftness options are in more defensive specs, apart from tools maybe, but not much there works with scrapper if you want to still have access to increased move speed, so open PVE builds become a little held back as you would have to spec to get speed over say HGH

Not entirely true. But close.

Hammer 3 – 5 all hit for more or near about the same amount of damage as Jump Shot.

The problem is that they are all multi-hit and are hard to land in their entirety against players. Either way, they are not as burst-y as Jump Shot .

Mercurias.1826:

Wasn’t healing bombs almost never used when it existed because the heals were tiny and the rest of the trait line wasn’t terribly good as it was?

I mean, when it existed it was often outright mocked right here on these forums as a bad trait.

Am I the only person who remembers this?

So why do people desperately want it back suddenly?

You are correct on all fronts.

coglin.1867:

Adamantium.3682:

I don’t think it’s fair to ask to change a weapon’s intent and purpose to fit something that you want it to be. The hammer is not broken which is why the comparison to Rev is not a good one. Rev damage was literally broken. It was terrible across the board

Hammer is good. It’s just not good at pure damage. This is not a fault of the hammer and why I don’t think it’s good feedback to try and change it into something it’s not. The problem is not hammer, the problem is that the hammer doesn’t fit into your expectation of what it should do. This is an important distinction to me.

What is the weapons intent and purpose? Why does your view of its intent or purpose supersede anyone else’s?

Sure, I agree the revenant may not be a good comparison. Though guardian hammer may be. it has similar defensive and/or CC functionality and similar auto attack timing, yet does 35% more damage.

Guardian hammer damage is frontloaded onto the AA. The rest of the skills are mostly utility.

Scrapper hammer does significantly more damage on 2 – 5 in addition to the utility.

And here is where we are reminded that comparing classes directly is bad:

Scrappers can at any time swap into/out off a DPS kit with virtually no penalty. Since Guardians cannot do that, the same principles that drive their weapon design is not appropriate here.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Adamantium.3682:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Adamantium.3682:

Please. I’m tired of seeing posts about a mediocre trait you can’t use anymore.

It would be more constructive if you refrained pushing your subjective opinion as if it were fact.

Seems like the same thing y’all are doing in favor of EIB does it not?

Of course my view of it is subjective, saying otherwise is a red herring. Protip: when someone posts something on the forums you can safely assume it’s how they feel and it’s their opinion even if they didn’t explicitly say so.

What really gets me in this whole EIB obsession is how it was rarely discussed as a good build when it was in game. Most of what I saw was along the lines of “yeah it heals but you have to spam bombs, you don’t do a lot of damage, it’s sort of gimmicky”. That’s certainly how it felt to me when I used it, something I could use when I just wanted to mindlessly carry pugs through dungeons by spamming bombs. Now it’s gone and it has somehow nerfed the Engi gutting one of the best builds we had? I think it’s a little over the top.

It was a trait that some people liked and now it’s gone. That sucks, but it happens. Time to let it go.

I do not know what “y’all” are saying. I speak for myself. You disingenuously make declarative statements, I specify my words as my opinion, with such clarifiers as “seems to me” and “to me it feels like” and so on.

Your pro tip falls on its face in my opinion. One of the worst mistakes a person can make is to assume anything about what anyone means or intends, on the internet.

I do not know what your going on about as to EIB discussions. I made several discussions about it and how I used it in WvW, and many others joined me in the discussion. I suspect what you do not remember seeing others discuss, could just about be crammed into the grand canyon. Similarly, how you describe recalling others referring to the trait strikes me as more likely how you posted about it, not so much how everyone else referred to it. Perhaps it would be beneficial if you stick to speaking for yourself, instead of trying to recall for use what you claim others felt about it in the past.

Fact of the matter is, it was, as I said, a good support additive in my opinion, for adding more benefit and value to utilizing the bomb kit, when compared to other kits in WvW and other scenarios. Enough so that multiple threads have popped up on this recently, with many posters in favor of it. You do not have to like it. No one is even asking you to use it.

Opportunity cost.

Increasing the damage is the worst way to improve hammer AA.

Instead:

-Double Might/Vuln Stacking. Halve Might/Vuln Duration.
-Slightly Increase attack speed
-Reduce Aftercasts

Ugh, came crawling back to the hammer in PvP. Hammer 3 and 5 are too good together.

Adamantium.3682:

lorddarkflare.9186:

I personally think the cooldown balance discussion is sort of backward.

Gyros should have effects that merit going on cooldown on death rather than just giving them cooldown on cast.

Would bring some interesting play and use of the utilities. Similar to Healing Turret.

Well Healing Turret works exactly the opposite of how they want turrets to work and it seems like Gyros as well to a lesser extent. They don’t want us blowing up turrets a second after using them, they’ve said as much. This is why they moved a lot of the heal off of the initial placement of HT awhile back, it just did nothing to actually solve the problem.

I don’t think blowing up a turret or gyro immediately after getting its initial effects is interesting play. At that point they’re not even minions for us they’re regular skills that we’re using for a one time effect. That’s not what turrets and gyros are designed for so I don’t think they should push us toward that direction with big death effects. We should want to keep them alive.

Right, but this game is EXTREMELY hostile to allied A.I.

Despite being a pretty casual game, GW2 requires constant input a modicum of responsiveness and awareness. Allied A.I. are not at that level and cannot truly get there without making them a nightmare to deal with in WvW and PvP.

To exist in the game as it currently is, the ‘gyro-ness’ of gyros needs to be flavor only. Giving them detonations that basically act as utilities is probably the best compromise we can hope for.

RubberDougie.2750:

I’d say we tried our best. It is time to say goodbye for good to an amazing trait.

/me cries.

Amazing trait? Are we now to the point where we are re-writing history?

Look, it is a bummer that the trait is gone, especially since its departure revealed that it had a following.

Still, it is not coming back. Nor should it.

wolfyrik.2017:

lorddarkflare.9186:

wolfyrik.2017:

Gyros unreliable? First two minors not worth it?

Must…resist…. mustn’t say…told you so…

Get over yourself.

Everyone knew that there were plenty of issues.

We were hoping that some of them would be fixed beforehand, but if the past two weeks has taught us anything, it is that pretty much everyone wanted to re-write half the class immediately after seeing what it can do.

Well excuse me for breathing, Captain Humourless. Who died and made you king of the internet?

Well if it pleases, your majesty, I don’t understand why your ire is directed at me. I didn’t write the scrapper. I wasn’t the one kitten-visited every mistake made across every class over the last 3 years on this spec, but I took plenty of flak for questioning those mistakes when they were announced as part of the scrapper.

What do you know, it turns out people who play the game can learn and spot potential flaws in the making.

Oh and who do you think you are attacking me for havin a bit of laugh?

Get over yourself.

Smug superiority in a feedback thread instead of…feedback. Not helpful.

Last I will discuss this. I do not want to further crap the thread with snipes.

EdwinLi.1284:

Adamantium.3682:

I tried replacing Grenade Kit with a Gyro but it felt like an empty utility slot.

If you’re tyring to get the most out of gyros then it is best to use Gyros for their toolbelt skills instead of the gyros in general. Their AoE field toolbelt skills works very well with Scrapper’s melee nature and can open up a lot of combo field happy combat.

Since I focus mostly as a melee for Scrapper I mostly only use Mortar Kit for my long range and extra combo fields. The Shredder Gyro is so far the most favored Gyro for certain amount of players due to how much Whirl finisher it can dish out in a short amount of time with combo fields.

The shredder gyro is also my favorite, but entirely because of the toolbelt.

Expert examination is AMAZING.

Also, Healing Turret is better in conjuction with recovery matrix. 10 seconds of prot every 15 seconds.

Lastly, I am currently using: Explosives and Inventions. I am REALLY missing tools though.

Dirame.8521:

I would run rifle with this set-up. I’m just not digging the functionality of the Hammer right now.

I am slowly realizing why my Engie is pretty much the only character I want to ever you regularly: I hate, hate, HATE melee.

Was a shock to realize this.

I have been using P/P and P/S on my Scrapper for PvP.

wolfyrik.2017:

Gyros unreliable? First two minors not worth it?

Must…resist…. mustn’t say…told you so…

Get over yourself.

Everyone knew that there were plenty of issues.

We were hoping that some of them would be fixed beforehand, but if the past two weeks has taught us anything, it is that pretty much everyone wanted to re-write half the class immediately after seeing what it can do.

I have found uses for about 3 of the Gyros across both PvE and PvP.

That said, I do not disagree with you.

This is going to be a persistent problem for engineers for ALL elite specs. We have extremely powerful and expansive choices for out utility slots.

The best way to solve some of those problems in the future is to tie our weapon, class mechanic and utilities together…

..like the Druid. But hopefully not as boring.

Are.1326:

WhiteGlint.4897:

Here is my SD roaming build for reference> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUBtdhlcB2UBEqilKjietr77WcZCgwb8DigGA-T1RBABXp8DPdAYq+DP7PAwFA4hHAgZKBJFQELjA-w

I must be missing something… Why are you running mass momentum without any stability? I’d replace Rifle turret with Personal battering Ram and take Expert Examination, the 2 sec extra CD on the toolbelt is worth the daze, cripple, vuln and weakness. It also deals more dmg than suprice shot, not to forget that Rilfe turret does les than Personal Battering Ram if you don’t have Inventions or Explosives.

I would also replace Shocking Speed with Recovery Matrix since RM triggers on Healing turret overcharge (10 sec protection on a 15 sec heal is madnes and I love it).

Since you now have 2 gadgets on your bar, you might want to consider Gadgeteer over Adrenal Implant since you already get Vigor from toolbelt skills.

I hope that is intentional, but I know I hope in vain

michelada.2947:

We need more stability options for wvw , the only new one we have it’s atached to the gyros and i’m pretty sure that in the current state no one will use them for wvw.

i can’t find a good set of abilities that allow my engi to be effective at melee range i really was expecting that gyros could help fill that gap , the tool belt skills are really good but the gyros on they own are suck bad .

Perfectly weighted?

Lets talk about superspeed.

What is the point of it? Right now, it is just fancy non-stacking swiftness that procs 1(one) trait.

It needs to do more. Example: One of our minors could modify it into an IAS.

Giving this a try now. I like the idea behind this.

The lack if IMS is very noticeable though.

Hammer 3 is REALLY problematic.

Right now, the only time I use it is when I have a field.

Outside of those cases, it is much too erratic for anything.

Only two Gyros worthy of discussion right now, and both of them severely flawed:

Shredder Gyro:

-Toolbelt skill is legitimately amazing. Turns you into a vuln/cc MACHINE.
-The Gyro itself is garbage. The stun on death is ace though.

Stealth Gyro:

-Reveal on toolbelt is great. Too great.
-Stealth works like a champ. In PvP.
-It tries to engage things if you are in combat. That sucks.
-It cannot keep up. That really sucks.

radovan.8624:

Sneak gyro is terrible ;(

It SHOULD be able to keep up so that is huge mark against it, but it actually is VERY good. In PvP.

Minor Traits:

-Function Gyro will be useful in PvP if it gets fixed, but is absolutely useless in PvE.

-The first minor should be replaced with something a bit more flavorful to the Scrapper
-Function Gyro should be merged into decisive renown and kept at minor 3.
-Impact Savant should act on dazes.
-A gyro based effect should be added to impact savant. Example: summon a random gyro when you daze or stun a foe.

Hammer:

-in general feels much too clunky

-Hammer 1 needs more attack speed. Vuln/Might stacks x2. Vuln/Might duration /2.
-Hammer 2 animation could be spiced up a bit. Not tactile enough in melee.
-Hammer 3 needs to be a LOT less random. If I have a target, I should stay on him.
-Hammer 4 needs a much wider and deeper effective radius.
-Hammer 5 is good. Could do with a lower cast time, but that may be a bit too much.

Gyros:

-Too slow. Need to PERMANENTLY have superspeed. We do not need them to have boons OR conditions.

-Need shorter recharges. 15 – 20 secs.

-Gyro effects need to happen in a much shorter time span. Think 5 seconds. They will not survive longer than this.

-Function Gyro recharge should be bumped to 40 secs and its stomp needs to be shorter than its current form OR the player’s. 1 – 1.25 secs.

-GUT the AI on all gyros. They need no more decision making than a projectile.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

ROFL

Alright, just figured it out.

You know how Impact Savant says “Outgoing/Incoming Stuns” and everyone thought “Stuns” encompassed Dazes as well?

It doesn’t.

Slot Battering Ram. Look at the toolbelt. Unaffected by Impact Savant.

It literally only affects stuns.

Engineer has 2 stuns. Supply Crate and Hammer 5.

This GM minor affects two skills total.

What. A. Joke.

The prevailing theory is that this was not intentional.

We have known that it was broken since the PoI.