A lot of people talk bad about Sneak Gyro. I suspect they did not play it.
You still have mad stealth while a player attacks your sneak gyro, it isn’t dead, and you thunderclap him from stealth. All while he tries to attack the gyro because he had no other option until you become revealed.
It is a very strong close range juke. It is also insta cast so it can deny stomps and CC bursts. Not to mention its game changing tool belt.
You are right about pretty much everything. Personally though, I REALLY dislike the toolbelt.
Engies are already a natural counter to thieves. I would have preferred something I’d get a bit more use out of.
Mesmers
A much better reason to take it, but still not good enough. If you know the Mesmer is near, you have plenty of other, more versatile tools to deal with the burst. If you do NOT know, then the skill really does not make a difference.
As an Engineer, I am MUCH more concerned about Necromancers or getting burned to death.
And In general, I prefer soft, multipurpose counters.
A lot of people talk bad about Sneak Gyro. I suspect they did not play it.
You still have mad stealth while a player attacks your sneak gyro, it isn’t dead, and you thunderclap him from stealth. All while he tries to attack the gyro because he had no other option until you become revealed.
It is a very strong close range juke. It is also insta cast so it can deny stomps and CC bursts. Not to mention its game changing tool belt.
You are right about pretty much everything. Personally though, I REALLY dislike the toolbelt.
Engies are already a natural counter to thieves. I would have preferred something I’d get a bit more use out of.
Cleansing Burst activated Recovery Matrix durring the beta, so Healing Turret proc 2×5 sec of protection. I do not know if it will continue doing that after release, seems a bit too good to be true.
MG creates an AoE Daze, not Stun. Both is not affected by Impact Savant for +25% durration.
Impact Savant will be fixed by launch to affect dazes as well.
I think your fix for Chemical Field is sort of boring. Not to mention that the game do with less light fields around.
My suggestion:
Chemical field should stay as is, but pulse resistance in addition. Like reconstruction field.
Call it Resistance Field (as in the poison builds up allied resistance).
Also keep in mind:
Irenio did not promise a re-work or really anything.
He said that they would look into the possibility of expansion after release. IF they do anything, it will most likely be to ‘improve’ what is already there.
If that’s their argument, then how come there are ZERO, yes zero new fractals with HoT?
Seeing as most people were not playing them and the changes were made to encourage them, I do not think they are prioritizing creating new ones at a time when they seem to be crunching pretty hard.
That aside, I hope they clue us in on their Fractal roadmap before the close of the year.
There are two components I can mention right now, the rest you’ll have to wait until the 23rd to see:
Gyros should be a good bit more snappy when it comes to staying near you and are also going to experience some additional survivability.
Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.
I do not expect a response to this, but why would itemizing the current work being done on the class need to wait for next week?
Is this a factor of the encroaching release and lack of time/resources to address the community like has been done after BW2 and BWE2? Or is there another reason?
Regardless of what it is, I want to point out that being mysterious about the whole thing sort of allows the community to build up the unreasonable expectations they are prone to.
so runes triggers wit h equipping it, and the traits trigger with the toolbelt skill.
That’s too bad. I thought that if they triggered on any/all uses of any of the skills, taking icd into account, it might have helped make medkit a bit more attractive.
Prior to the June patch, that is exactly how it behaved.
It WAS more attractive, but not by much. Healing Turret still outclassed it.
Is your intention to shift the gold away from dungeons into fractals above 50 that require masteries? This seems like a great way to pressure players into buying the expansion.
Wanna farm gold in an optimal way!? Better grab that wallet and purchase HoT!
The old Legendaries are a ridiculous grind. And not in the ‘oh no I actually have to work for my reward’ way, but actively monotonous and soul-crushing.
This depends entirely on your definition of ‘monotonous and soul-crushing’. To me, for example, this new system is exactly that. I find it to not be something I can see myself enjoying. Otoh, slowly acquiring the materials for a legendary by playing the content I enjoy, as was possible with the old system, was perfectly fine with me. I have no issue with it.
Different people prefer different things, simple as that.
Right, but at least this system encourages actually playing varied content.
The older system was perfectly willing to let you grind out the legendary. In fact, for many gifts (metal in particular) grinding gold was pretty much your only option.
I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.
Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.
And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.
What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?
Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.
Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.
The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.
My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.
I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.
Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.
And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.
The old Legendaries are a ridiculous grind. And not in the ‘oh no I actually have to work for my reward’ way, but actively monotonous and soul-crushing.
I have been playing this game since Beta and I STILL have not yet been able to create one. Getting there though.
These new legendaries look to try to direct that effort squarely at actual content. That is 10x better than what we have now.
With recent changes to Dragon Hunter’s F1, Thief dodges and Ele’s Rebound, I regained faith in rework of function gyro.
10 days to launch, Anet HQ must be in fire right now ^^
I’m not getting my hopes up. Considering the levels of polish in BWE3 and the fact the only response to scrapper feedback was “Thanks, we’ll think about it” (just look at the druid response), it’s been made very clear where scrapper is on their priority list. Hell, I’d be surprised if hammer 1 gets particles before release.
One post does not a panic make.
Druid issues can be fixed with numbers. Function Gyro cannot.
Pessimism is warranted, but this board is getting downright cynical.
So,….having played the updated build i linked. firearms, Tools and alc…here is my experience:
I AM hard to kill….I often drop fast when focused but there are alot of automated deffences or heals it seems…and i get invinsible etc..and rocket boots lets me get away…
The healing turret i use and its quite good i must say,…
BUT kitten i miss the range I used to have a long time ago….what was it 1050? I realy feel like 900 is too short a range but uhwell…at least I can survive being focused..
I dont feel particullary strong dps wise, but I Guess one have to choose between glass cannon or survivability in www.
I tried to play With flamethrower as a kit…but i end up getting extremly confused and hitting all kinds of buttons….so i think i will stick With my elixir B and use the dual pistols…
rocket boots is a life saver….healing turret is too…elixir B is very strong and elixir S is also a life saver…
I Wonder….How does a P/P thief compare to my P/P enginner? Prob more dmg but FAR less survability? Cause tbo..I dont utilize the engineer skills to realy warrant an engineer….i choose it because of dual guns tbo;)…would I do better as P/P thief?
You are not really supposed to used FT as a kit, but as a multi-utility.
FT 2: Extra Blast Finisher for water fields
FT 3: CC/Projectile deflect
FT 4: Area Denial/Extra Damage when people cannot avoid it very well (Zergs)
FT 5: For safe-ish stomps and on demand blind when you are CC’d.
Sinister gear is out. I do not have it in me to farm for another set of Ascended gear right now. I understand that I’m missing out on one of the best roles that Engineers have to offer by doing this, but I’m eager to at least try to break from the meta.
With all due respect, raids are challenging, group-oriented, end-game content with enrage timers. This isn’t really the space for people to “break from the meta.” These boss fights are intended to be defeated in very specific ways.
And more to that point, I don’t understand: you can just change the stats on your ascended armor by forging them with an Anthology of Heroes.
personally ill prolly just shrug and laugh at people who try to do that to me
Enjoy those enrage timers, then.
This expansion will be a great eye opener for the arrogant, I think. There is very little margin for error here.
Lol, I was trying to find a nice way to eventually get to this.
Dungeons are super easy and super forgiving when it comes to doing your own thing. This has warped our understanding about what content requires us to have.
ANET is in a tough spot though. Scrapper was already consider top tier in PvP. If thy buff gyros too much, it will be over the top. If they don’t buff gyros, they are bad. Tough choice.
Scrappers are good in PvP because of the traits.
It would take a hell of a buff to have Gyros seriously challenge or exceed the likes of FT, Elixir S, Elixir B, Elixir Gun, etc
-Throw Bandage becomes a water field
-Throw Bandage becomes AoE
-Throw bandage applies AoE Regen
-At least one blast finisher is added to the kit
-Toolbelt skill becomes AoE
-All the skills can be executed in less than 1.5 seconds
-Med Kit AA is able to output the full sinister DPS by itself whilst healing
The point that the snark is trying to get across in what I hope is not an overly hostile way is that Healing Turret is a contender for best heal in the game.
Most other personal heals do not even come close.
It is not that the math is wrong—although on the most basic level it is—it is also that it ignores real world situations.
I think the viability of hammer builds will be up to how well it works with any future boss mechanics. However, sinister condi engi seems to be so strong, it’s hard for me to see why you’d want to run anything else, at least from a performance standpoint.
I can easily see a condi engi going as scrapper for the traits (Adaptive Armor) and function bot since it’s not a big drop in DPS to lose Tools. Of course, you’ll still want Pistol/Pistol for that. =P
Pistol/Shield seems to be pretty viable as well, and it provides much more utility.
Quite honestly, the Function Gyro was pretty inspired considering some of the limitations they have.
I just wished they’d done something interesting with it.
Like, in addition to being summonable on downed foes, we could also summon it on CC’d foes as well. From there, it would have different, stronger abilities based on traits, type of CC, etc.
how exactly am i off base. the fact that it’s “entirely unexpected” is a big contributor of misdirection. and i’ve only listed a few of their capabilities. all the things i’ve mentioned above are things i see them do in wvw all the time through my experiences. there could be other things that greatly contribute to their misdirection that i’ve never seen but by no means am i off base.
For one: Engineers do use turrets in the way you describe. As in they are not used at all.
For another: Rangers are not CCing you so that their use of stealth is more effective, they are CCing you for all of the reasons one usually CCs someone.
Yes misdirection very lacking for the thief, I give you that. Mesmers have that market cornered and that is not entirely fair.
That said, you are completely off base with your analysis of the other classes. Their use of stealth being commonly successful is because it is entirely unexpected.
Playing against an engineer for example. You never know which escape or approach he/she may take because he/she has a plethora of options.
I think an interesting idea would be to leave them with average health, make them unhealable, and then remove the fuel limit of them, so they stick with you doing their thing until they’re taken down. This would at least be fun for open PvE.
They would remain useless everywhere else. How is that a noticeable improvement?
Yup. And they would still be useless in 80+ open world scenarios.
I have taken Flesh Golem out for a spin during all three of the BWE and it has died much too frequently for my liking.
Seemed like a pretty obvious place to take the class and a logical thing to give to people troubled by the—well advertised—reliance on kits.
That said, this would still be a little short of flavor.
Ya I know but I only started on the basic of what this Elite Spec may use. I didn’t think too far into this Elite Spec to start expecting any type of unique flavor quite yet.
I edited my second post to include the idea of a Engi’s own Reaper Shoud for this Elite Spec but instead of Unique skills for the Engi’s RS this Engi’s RS will change the Weapon skills instead to a type of Overcharge version of the Weapon skills.
(I was thinking of calling it Overcharge Form or Mode but meh the naming can go to Anet’s job if they ever plan to add something like this)
I have also toyed with the idea of getting a form, but I think our class already has a glut of mechanics that swap out our skills. It would be nice to get something shiny that does not do this.
It adds nothing, and would likely have to be at the cost of a Vuln/Might stack.
I agree that burning is a bad idea, but the stacks of might/vuln received have little practical usefulness.
Personally, I think the weapon’s damage should increase based on the the amount of CCs being suffered by the target(3%) and decrease based on CCs you are suffering(1%).
Of course that suggestion is rubbish and has not basis, but I would still like it very much
I agree that it’s too late for rework, but let’s discuss anyway.
How about a fuel bar that charges in combat. It would deplete partially on utility use and that utility would get a lower cooldown based on how much fuel you had. It would be divided in 3 parts: 1 part would mean 10% cd reduction, 2 – 20% and 3 – 35%. Using one utility would cost 50% of the whole bar and give that utility a lower cd based on how many fuel bars you had while activating it.
If we are being honest, the entire fuel idea is a pretty kitten boring mechanic. Not just your implementation, most of the other we have seen as well.
At least flavor-wise.
I would prefer to see something much more outwardly spectacular.
@lahm, I really like your build, which amulet would you recommend to convert it to a pvp build. It’s the only thing that annoys me about pvp, especially condi builds, is that the amulets force you to take stats you don’t want, there’s no condi, vit and precision amulet for example, or even a condi, vit, toughness. I feel I need a bit of extra survivability.
The build is a variation of probably the most effective (relatively speaking anyway) PvP engineer condi build.
It is usually run with rabid. I have seen carrion used as well.
as always for engis we must live with it. Look at the buglist no other class has so many bugs and for a so long time. After HoT release even more bugs will come only for scrapper cause of no chance to test it, only 1 BWE is so a stupid decision i cannot understand it.
Right, and kits are effectively the class mechanic, so if those get nerfed we have a bit of a problem/revolt on our hands.
Better do it soon than later. Any elite spec they plan to do just further increases the amount of work they’ll have to do to rebalance all the utilities and weapons once kits are finally made as optional as they should be. Since right now anything must be balanced over the assumption of their use, and thus forcing their use instead.
And while you talk about nerfing, it’s just a matter of effectively rebalancing the whole class. Some things would be nerfed, others would be buffed.
You misunderstand: It is too late.
That is such a huge shift and a massive betrayal from what that class has been for over three years.
Best approach now is to have each elite spec directly address the problem, each in their unique way. Or offer more competitive options (somehow). Or offer new kits.
It has been around since long before this beta. It doesn’t knock you down for 8s. You can dodge out of it, or use any movement skill. It is very situational, and has a very long cool down. It can be walked right past with stability. Personally I think it needs the opposite, and should be buffed by lowering the cool down.
Yup. Since no one is ever going to use gadgeteer, most gadgets could use a cooldown reduction.
Add stealth gyro, elixir S , elixir B, wrench and you have one unkillable engi in any pvp setting.
I don’t know, but my l2p-sense starts tingling whenever someone uses the term “unkillable” on something he wants to nerf…
So it seems someone bunkered up against power dmg…
Good on him. Can you tell me why you haven’t tried to kill him with condis?
Adaptative Armor+Hoelbrak+Celestial gear+Alchemy are more than enough in order to tank conditions, while easily stacking 25 stacks of might in order to do awesome damage :p
Mind telling me how you are getting 25 stacks of might without HGH?
I’ll wait.
Well, in a purely theoretical, silly way:
- Mass Momentum + Juggernaut for 14 – 16 stacks.
- Napalm + Orbital Strike + Flame blast + Detonate Healing Turret 9 stacks.
They really weren’t thinking when they gave engi a trait for +25% stun duration when engi only has access to 2 stuns, hammer 5 and Supply Crate
This
I concur as well. I expect the trait to be one of the first things Irenio fixes.
It makes no sense, but we have known that since the PoI.
Decisive Renown is also pretty underwhelming as well. It’s one of those minors that you barely notice. It’s also just kind of boring. Warrior Tactics minors have the same issue.
