But it is about being Full. JQ is Full because it has more active population than Very High servers. There’s no reason to give a link to a Full server.
I think this round of links is pretty reasonable. Look at how close all the NA matches are right now.
Population is used for server status. Links are used to better even up matches. This is not whats happening
^This.
I’ve got a lot of friends on JQ and when I look at my friends list during the day I rarely see more than 2 or 3 of them in wvw. But every one of them will hop in at some point, either during prime time or just to get their daily.
All of these people are technically active players even if they are only in wvw for about an hour or less everyday.
When I look around on Mag I see the same names logging in every day and putting in way more hours.
Yeah and thats why we’re full, not why we didn’t get a link.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I think this is a very reasonable linking that seems to have done depending on wvw-population/activity instead of Glicko rank (otherwise Maguuma and YB would have no link).
That doesn’t explain JQ.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Oh lord, no! How the mighty have fallen! What’s so special about JQ that they can’t fall a few tiers? Servers have been rising and falling long before links became a thing.
Its got nothing to do with being special, its about anet not being fair under this system. I thought the same when DB fell and when YB fell. T1 servers were not meant to get links yet 2 T1 servers do and 2 T2 servers don’t. Plus I don’t see why anet shouldn’t provide greater transparency about these decisions given they are made using the personal judgement of the devs.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
You give the server winning T1 a link? lolwut? Who is making these decisions? And could you please explain them? I think we’d all like to be enlightened on this since it seems pretty nonsensical.
You prefered they’d give a link to a Full server like JQ or BG? A
JQ can’t compete with whichever server comes down to T2 so of course it deserves a link.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
After manual close now also manual linking, i’m out. Rip
You know… FA’s been Full/Very High since the population calculation change over a year ago and hanging around rank 6. Anet at the time said some servers marked Full were overstacked well beyond the Full status (like BG still is). When JQ was Very High, you guys still brought out numbers that FA could almost compete with. I don’t honestly know how you expect not to go Full when you can outnumber FA at times and then go and recruit. T2 “size” is basically the new max server size you have to get used to, not the old overstacked T1 sizes. It really sounds like you need to trim players in certain timezones if you want to fill other timezones.
Its not about just being full its not getting a link. Anet has just literally destroyed JQ. Well done anet.
This demands justification.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Yeah we were ticking like 150+ when I posted that so sarcasm was intended. It’s funny that people think TC is tanking just because we don’t have the ridiculous JQ SEA numbers.
Yeah so ridiculous that TC wins the majority of skirmishes in SEA.
Because JQ is tanking… d’oh…
The previous week as well?
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Yeah we were ticking like 150+ when I posted that so sarcasm was intended. It’s funny that people think TC is tanking just because we don’t have the ridiculous JQ SEA numbers.
Yeah so ridiculous that TC wins the majority of skirmishes in SEA.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
why so many people afraid BG and JQ Server open ??
o.o?
can anyone tell me why ?
BG already close 3 months…..
it’s the Close-door diplomatic policy
Too much kool-aid buddy, just too much kool aid.
I mean why would anyone want to transfer to a strong stable server that has been able to maintain it’s place in the top tier for almost 4 years now, why would that matter especially when every other server is constantly experiencing instability. Stop drinking that kool-aid folks, its bad for you
Yeah so how does that explain JQ?
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
TW transfer mid week. You haven’t even seen the effects of them playing and you guys are asking for more. TC hasn’t even seen the effects of losing them and you think JQ needs a link? I don’t understand. You don’t have to be even against MAG and BG. That’s not the objective. Hell those two servers are too stacked. You need to stop comparing your server to them and look at the bigger picture. Before last night there was a 9 to 10k gap difference between JQ and TC. What do you think that gap would have looked like if TW had started there versus over here? I understand the end of the week snowball is taking into effect, but you shouldnt need an abundance of coverage to compete at this level. BG and MAG are both bloated and MAG will more than likely be unlinked because of it..
Well TW started with JQ this week and its now looking to be pretty similar to last week, so its fair to say TW hasn’t made a big enough difference that JQ shouldn’t get a link.
You guys are tanking or purpose says your discord. Not to mention the overtime I had to do last night to catch up. It’s funny how, you guys accuse others of tanking on purpose yet here you are.
JQNA played up until OCX the last 2 days, OCX had it usual turn out. Cloud Fly was on. I personally couldn’t see any tanking. And its pretty funny you seem to be so up in arms about JQ, when BG, Mag, YB, TC and DB have all done it. You just have a personal issue with JQ.
TC never organized to tank. I don’t have personal issues with JQ, I don’t like how JQ stacks to imbalance and kill off competition is all.
You protest too. You’re talking about what happened in the dim dark past of the game and its not relevant to the present.
What? Thought I was talking about TC not tanking and JQ tanking now. Thought I was talking about the purchasing of guilds between servers and how it creates an imbalance. That’s still happening and thats not the past. Protest? I don’t understand.
Given JQs poor NA and EU how is TW and I guess HARD as well transferring to JQ stacking to imbalance? Isn’t JQ doing what most have advocated they do by recruiting what they lack? Even with those 2 guilds our NA is merely competitive not overstacked.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
TW transfer mid week. You haven’t even seen the effects of them playing and you guys are asking for more. TC hasn’t even seen the effects of losing them and you think JQ needs a link? I don’t understand. You don’t have to be even against MAG and BG. That’s not the objective. Hell those two servers are too stacked. You need to stop comparing your server to them and look at the bigger picture. Before last night there was a 9 to 10k gap difference between JQ and TC. What do you think that gap would have looked like if TW had started there versus over here? I understand the end of the week snowball is taking into effect, but you shouldnt need an abundance of coverage to compete at this level. BG and MAG are both bloated and MAG will more than likely be unlinked because of it..
Well TW started with JQ this week and its now looking to be pretty similar to last week, so its fair to say TW hasn’t made a big enough difference that JQ shouldn’t get a link.
You guys are tanking or purpose says your discord. Not to mention the overtime I had to do last night to catch up. It’s funny how, you guys accuse others of tanking on purpose yet here you are.
JQNA played up until OCX the last 2 days, OCX had it usual turn out. Cloud Fly was on. I personally couldn’t see any tanking. And its pretty funny you seem to be so up in arms about JQ, when BG, Mag, YB, TC and DB have all done it. You just have a personal issue with JQ.
TC never organized to tank. I don’t have personal issues with JQ, I don’t like how JQ stacks to imbalance and kill off competition is all.
You protest too. You’re talking about what happened in the dim dark past of the game and its not relevant to the present.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Im on YB, and I HATE t1. HATE it so bad, I wanna transfer, but dont wanna pay the fee, so I simply dont WvW much any more. Yea YB does Ktrain, have to, facing the mag, or bg blobs in the times I play, we are just getting steam rolled. I hate one sided fights, I hate being on the winning and loosing side of em. Its no fun. So we hit bl and ktrain, really not much else to do.
And by doing that you maintain your place in T1, a place you hate.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
TW transfer mid week. You haven’t even seen the effects of them playing and you guys are asking for more. TC hasn’t even seen the effects of losing them and you think JQ needs a link? I don’t understand. You don’t have to be even against MAG and BG. That’s not the objective. Hell those two servers are too stacked. You need to stop comparing your server to them and look at the bigger picture. Before last night there was a 9 to 10k gap difference between JQ and TC. What do you think that gap would have looked like if TW had started there versus over here? I understand the end of the week snowball is taking into effect, but you shouldnt need an abundance of coverage to compete at this level. BG and MAG are both bloated and MAG will more than likely be unlinked because of it..
Well TW started with JQ this week and its now looking to be pretty similar to last week, so its fair to say TW hasn’t made a big enough difference that JQ shouldn’t get a link.
You guys are tanking or purpose says your discord. Not to mention the overtime I had to do last night to catch up. It’s funny how, you guys accuse others of tanking on purpose yet here you are.
JQNA played up until OCX the last 2 days, OCX had it usual turn out. Cloud Fly was on. I personally couldn’t see any tanking. And its pretty funny you seem to be so up in arms about JQ, when BG, Mag, YB, TC and DB have all done it. You just have a personal issue with JQ.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
You can’t determine that. A 2 month cycle is too long under a rotation. Our positions change too drasically and so does how population cap. If Arena Net were to say upon a link time that Tier 1 servers are not to have a link, then within 1 or 2 weeks that Tier 1 server will be in another tier imbalanced without a link. An example of this is Jade Quarry or even Dragonbrand.
My examples would include BG, Maguuma, YB and TC. Don’t pretend to be so upstanding.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
TW transfer mid week. You haven’t even seen the effects of them playing and you guys are asking for more. TC hasn’t even seen the effects of losing them and you think JQ needs a link? I don’t understand. You don’t have to be even against MAG and BG. That’s not the objective. Hell those two servers are too stacked. You need to stop comparing your server to them and look at the bigger picture. Before last night there was a 9 to 10k gap difference between JQ and TC. What do you think that gap would have looked like if TW had started there versus over here? I understand the end of the week snowball is taking into effect, but you shouldnt need an abundance of coverage to compete at this level. BG and MAG are both bloated and MAG will more than likely be unlinked because of it..
Well TW started with JQ this week and its now looking to be pretty similar to last week, so its fair to say TW hasn’t made a big enough difference that JQ shouldn’t get a link.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
While JQ runs so big in SEA, be it with casuals or not, you still have more SEA than any one else.
This is a lie
JQ has Ge pugmander, FOO, WvW, Cloudfly = 4 groups + tons of pugs
BG has AHMA and Bong (who pugmands) = 2 groups + some pugs/NA players
TC has FUG/HIRE = 2 groups + barely any pugs/NA players
Maguuma = ????? nothing now that MGR left outside of their NA that might wake up early
YB = DK if he plays overtime, otherwise nothing
Did you miss the memo that half of the SEA players on BG and all of them on Maguuma moved to EU?
Did you miss what has been said in this thread? WvW has quit the game as an organised guild. FOO runs irregularly. Sfeee from Ge and Cloudfly both command the same pugs at different times, and the number of pugs varies hugely, as has been said in this thread JQ’s remaining sea population is casual, they might have a big turn out once a week. Plus Sfeee is quite irregular in his times and Cloudfly leaves the games for fairly long periods. This is JQs issue.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Additionally, with this map being as profitable as it is, a lot of players have started triggering diminishing rewards. That’s just not cool. So we disabled diminishing rewards on this map.
If DR is not cool then why is it in the game at all let along being so punishing. Is it cool that its so punishing in the HOT maps just for example?
It is nice to see people being nice to Anet and Mo for a change. Please do not ask people to be hateful and mean where and when there is simply no cause to do so.
I’m, saying its inconsistent and even hypocritical. If DR is not cool and was removed from Mad King as a result then the same should apply across the game.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
JQ is simply suffering the consequences of its uncontrolled stacking over the past 4 years, I am sure all old players will notice how JQ’s old recruiters stack JQ without any self control over the past 4 years, always demanding for more even when they had the most at some timing. They stacked all kind of players from casual to hardcore to weekend players to school kids to new players checking WvW out to fairweathers who just want a easy way out. Those stacking once work because the past server capping included PvE populations but it no longer works now as it is purely on WvW active populations.
Only idiots will think JQ will not be full from time to time when all those casuals come out to play every once in awhile. However, JQers will forever be JQers, they will continue to whine and blame, looking for all kind of reasons while not looking at their own stacking actions they are directly responsible of. JQ simply reap what they sowed, even if it is years late.
You clearly have a grievance with JQ from the past I suggest you get over it. I agree with your comment about casual players but there’s no need to be so aggressive about it. Having said that I just want to emphasise again that JQ being forced into full by casual players coming out once a week is no reason for it not to get a link. Second point it is arguable that the population algorithm does not treat inconsistent populations as it should.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
TW transfer mid week. You haven’t even seen the effects of them playing and you guys are asking for more. TC hasn’t even seen the effects of losing them and you think JQ needs a link?
Because servers that we play against who are bigger than us overall are still open and still have links. If Mag, TC and YB didn’t have links then it wouldn’t be an issue
Its funny to hear people compare JQ to other servers as if you’re suppose to be in an designed tier when we are all rotating. In fact JQ only compares JQ to the highest of populated servers without realizing that there are other servers to compare with. Yet, JQ asks for more? It would have been more of a balancing act to have your last guild transfer to FA in fact.
We’re comparing JQ to the servers we play against. I don’t see how thats supposed to mean anything.
Remember links are reevaluated every 2 months and initially at the start JQ not receiving a link was on pair with DB and TC in the previous state. We already know that within 2 months things can change drastically. However JQ just made a huge purchase right before a reevaluation and if Arena Net takes in the total 2 month time frame, it would make sense to lock you before JQ further skews data to determine if they should be reevaluated for a link.
If ArenaNet choose to ignore the fact that JQ gained a large guild from a direct competitor in the same tier and thus linked JQ next despite it, what you’d see is a drastic imbalance and ArenaNet unintentionally egging on a bandwagon.
The issue here is that 2 months is too long to be making snap decisions like that. DB and YB showed that, heck JQ only held on by its fingernails and did lose one of our major guilds. If anything, given all servers but 1 have a link JQ should have a link and that should be evaluated over the next 2 months. If anet want to go the other way and delink all T1 and T2 servers and see what happens then I would be fine with that because there is equality.
I just did the math for gold spent and compared it to that of FUG. 30, 40, 50 the numbers don’t even state the type of coverage TW brings to a server. The price advertise whether right or wrong listed 35k gold estimating gem prices at 500 a person give or take that’s 70 people. Playing with you and against you I know you don’t field 70 people. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and just said 50+ Regardless the guild in question has at least 8 commanders and covers 2 time zones. I think Arena Net was well in their right to lock the server even if its temporary to prevent a bandwagon.
I think they are within their rights to lock the server but I’m arguing that if they do that then it doesn’t mean JQ should automatically not receive a linked server as well. A linked server at least should help mitigate against drastic changes to a server and the loss of players to the game itself that could result. And given that you probably know whats happening across the game you should well know that its possible there could be other changes to JQ over the next month.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Its ridiculous to ask for Jade Quarry to have a link after just recruiting a guild of 50+ players directly from one of your competitors. Your competitor (TC) who you took coverage from needs a link to keep up. You don’t.
Look at the scores. If you think half of TW will suddenly mean JQ is competing evenly against Mag, BG and TC you’re wrong. JQ will still be the 5th ranked server.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
In fact, I have occasionally encountered the outnumbered buff during Sea time on JQ for the past few weeks. Of course you guys won’t believe me, only anet has this statistic. There were the rare but occasional evenings when I couldn’t play wvw during sea time because of a lack of players in my own server.
From my observation, JQ just needs to come out to play once in a while for server to reach full status whereas TC and Mag can blob all day and blob all night and still remain on very high with a server link. Lmaooo
The thing is whether a player comes out once a week or every day of the week doesn’t matter in the population calculation once they pass the threshold of WvW activity and certainly coming out for 2-3 hours 1 day a week will pass that threshold. You can argue that the algorithm should be different and have a higher threshold but I’m not sure about that. If JQ gets a link then it at least mitigates against the problem of inconsistency somewhat.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
@kefro, what is your time zone play window for wvw?
Once could ask the same of you given you apparently think JQ has a strong EU.
Some facts as revealed by this thread, yes JQ still has a quite lot of SEA (despite some movement of sea players off the server) but they are inconsistent, they are only out together maybe 1 day a week. TC has won the majority of skirmishes during SEA this week and this is not an odd week. This inconsistency is a problem for the server in terms of its status, hopefully from a JQ POV this will be taken into account (or not depending on your POV) in determining links.
JQ has no EU and only has 1 ocx guild now as opposed to TCs 3-4 that run during ocx.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
JQs SEA is not overstacked any more, at least not relative to T1 servers.
Which T1 servers do you speak of. YB? TC? Mags? Who else has the size to compete?
BG, TC, Mag definitely.
There was a reason I did not add BG, is locked, thats speaks for itself. But if you think that Mags and TC have the numbers to fight map queues, then you do not play SEA or you have trouble seeing the green names around you.
Looking at the scores this week TC and JQ have traded places in sea all week with maybe TC being just in front in terms of skirmishes won.
TC seems to win most skirmishes. JQ for sure has more activity. You have an entire SEA community with a SEA pug commander who does not fear death. You can also play more consistently.
Yes I do think now that inconsistency is JQs problem.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
JQs SEA is not overstacked any more, at least not relative to T1 servers.
Which T1 servers do you speak of. YB? TC? Mags? Who else has the size to compete?
BG, TC, Mag definitely.
There was a reason I did not add BG, is locked, thats speaks for itself. But if you think that Mags and TC have the numbers to fight map queues, then you do not play SEA or you have trouble seeing the green names around you.
Looking at the scores this week TC and JQ have traded places in sea all week with maybe TC being just in front in terms of skirmishes won.
Today JQ owned 85% of all of WvW. This is a normal thing no matter the match up and even more so considering both MAG and BG have lost SEA to the EU servers.
This is JQs ticks during this match up. TC does not have enough SEA to compete with JQs SEA. Today they near full capped WvW in Tier 2.
Like I said above thats just 1 day. However I do understand that means everyone that played yesterday in SEA time counts as part of JQ’s population for the server status because certainly they would have played enough. I do think that means the algorithm needs adjusting in terms of smoothing out extreme variations in players logging in and I sure hope its taken into account for server links.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
JQ hit full status quick right in the middle of the transfer. This was abnormal and no doubt and possibly a manual lock on JQ but why?
[…]
Simply blocking the move and not fixing the issue at it’s core does nothing but cause more attrition and angered players that don’t understand.
If its manual its ridiculous, what do they expect? The guild involved to move to another server to get back together? If its automatic then clearly their algorithm needs work because clearly its not just based on activity for the previous few weeks. Plus the devs actually need to get first hand experience of what is actually happening on servers.
Either way their needs to be more transparency around these changes for exactly the reasons you state in your final paragraph.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
JQs SEA is not overstacked any more, at least not relative to T1 servers.
Which T1 servers do you speak of. YB? TC? Mags? Who else has the size to compete?
BG, TC, Mag definitely. JQ has 3 sea guilds left TGA which are small and only run 3 days a week. FOO who only run intermittently and WvW who have quit running organised raids. Apart from that there are pugs and I think only Cloudfly as a pugmander.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
If you are not happy with the cannons then i suggest that you join the many guilds and regular wvw players in simply not playing until they are removed.
This is definalty in the Top 3 of the worst things anet has done for wvw since launch. Its a poorly thought out idea. Clearly someone said “lets try portable cannons” the reply came “ok, ill design the cannon” yet no one thought about what the cannon would actually do. Its as if the ANET team didnt play wvw (which they do).
Do they really though? And how much? The implementation of these cannons is clearly by someone that knows nothing about WvW.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
To sum up:
*rifle untouched
*med kit untouched
*turrets untouched
*buffed already strong condi builds
*shield slightly, slightly improved. Nobody still use it anyway
*nerf of gear shield. Only viable block for non-hammer builds.
For me, it’s time to look for another game.
And this is after saying in the actual notes: "We’ve been looking to improve the engineer and to support the areas it’s been lacking in so that the profession can perform more effectively in a DPS role. "
I mean WTF! There’s virtually no dps improvement at all.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
The fights in both Bloodstone Fen and Ember Bay are mundane and unimaginative. I would surmise that anets good monster designers are all working on the xpac. Its a pity because I’m actually enjoying the story.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
We can’t even get to know the linked servers in a single month!
That’s ridiculous to say the least!
Well if you’ve followed the debate about server linkages its clear that there’s an issue with players bandwagoning to linked servers for little cost, making it monthly would help that. Also servers change over the course of 2 months and there’s no opportunity to change linkages if a change drastically warrants it.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
