Guild Wars 2

Mak.2657:

Meta is still forming. Rotation ability probably will always be in meta.

Honestly it’s a matter of team composition. Regurtitatijg helseths stream he says shatter Mesmer doesn’t work very well against bunkery comps because Mesmer burst isn’t high enough to take them down as easily compared to pre elite spec bruiser builds. It can still work against teams that run more glass though.

Also one thing to note is that this chronomancer build is very reliant on teammates standing in wells to gain alacrity to crush people in teamfights. In soloqueue people will run around like a headless chicken and won’t receive the alacrity, meaning it really needs a somewhat coordinated team to shine.

well glaphen, considering today’s monthly, you were somewhat correct in your assumptions. I wouldn’t say its OP at all though because a more mobile team can simply outrotate the support well chronomancer like they would against a support guard. You give up rotational strength in order to carry teamfights better.

Fay.2357:

nearlight.3064:

In twitch chat helseth briefly discussed his reasons for picking cele. Apparently he can sit at 25 might a lot of the time somehow (maybe through tempest fire overloads or herald might or something?) and he didn’t feel as though his survivability needed to be any higher considering how often he died when playing it. I’m still not sure if that reasoning is sound, but I thought I’d post it here to keep us informed.

Granted, the actual comp he was fighting was a bunch of tanky builds, it doesn’t take the tankiest build in the world to stay alive against that.

Also granted, swapping to a semi-bunker that does semi-bad damage against a team of tanky builds isn’t exactly the brightest decision I’ve ever seen made.

To be fair, he did way better against oRNG on his tanky build compared to his shatter build based on the three games he played against them, but I think the main ace in the hole for oRNG is that they simply adapted and rotated better than TCG did after the first game, which I think is more due to how they have better coordination, instead of TCG just listening to helseth for all of their rotations. oRNG also had better condi pressure between the cele necro, druid, and condi rev too, which may have tipped the balance in their favor, especially since most of the new cele bruisers in this meta aren’t running as much AoE cleanse as they used to (tempest without shout runes/cleansing water, druid has bad cleanse, scrapper has only heal turret really).

Anyway thats what I thought about his mesmer usage tactically. A bunker/support build would work well in a 2-point comp, but not a 3-point comp, meaning that teams with higher mobility can just outrotate the support builds and avoid the even numbered teamfights where something like a well chronomancer would have a huge advantage.

In twitch chat helseth briefly discussed his reasons for picking cele. Apparently he can sit at 25 might a lot of the time somehow (maybe through tempest fire overloads or herald might or something?) and he didn’t feel as though his survivability needed to be any higher considering how often he died when playing it. I’m still not sure if that reasoning is sound, but I thought I’d post it here to keep us informed.

Well people on top pvp teams are making it work really well in 2-point teamfight oriented comps. That being said, while I do overall like Tempest, I have found it to be boring compared to chronomancer/reaper.

Not sure if celestial or sentinels works better for this build, but since hurting things is important in pvp, celestial has that slight edge even if theres only a little bit of might. I’m going to keep experimenting with it, but this could be a really viable build if its tuned and developed further.

Do you guys think running signet of inspiration over recall well would be viable for more boonshare? You could also run calamity or portal in that slot as well. Time warp could be useful too for even more quickness/slow sharing.

Teutos.8620:

nearlight.3064:

Maybe scepter over staff would work better too?

You will loose access to a lot of boons from Chaos Armor (especially due to the protection from the chaos-trait).

Oh yeah, I always forget about the chaotic dampening leap proc.

Still it feels weird playing cele without condis but I can see that working. Maybe signet of inspiration could work over well of recall too for more boon share.

Teutos.8620:

FYI: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfC1fi9fCmfCEgilej6cDKhWzMAugMqeUb1ZF-TJRHABB8EAGf/BAuIAHVGAA

Edit: Wrong rune

durability runes are pretty beast on celestial anything.

I’ll try this build out later. I’m concerned about the lack of condi pressure, but with staff and geo/doom I could see it working. Maybe scepter over staff would work better too?

Also seize the moment over chronophantasma is odd but I can see why it would work okay.

I think shield with decoy works too since tides of time is basically chaos storm on steroids.

Torch is stil great of course, but the phantasm is still pretty kitten.

Nope, I’m running the Mac client which probably explains it

Need to take a way point? Crash.

Need to be taxied into a better organized map? Crash.

I’ve crashed like 8 times in the past day. I can feel my left ventricle thickening with how much my risk of developing hypertension increases each time I crash in one of the new maps.

ReaperJr.5967:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Chronomancer is not all that more stronger it’s the closest to a side grade HoT introduced, it just gives mesmers a very synergized spec.

Oh, you have not seen the good ones..

You mean the ones on NA that rerolled to rev?

Oh and there’s helseth and supcutie too I guess.

In the words of helseth from his stream, “Why is that guy playing mallyx? Does he hate himself”?

If you play necro and try to enter a teamfight at the start of the game, you might as well have just akitten at spawn, because if the enemy team has any idea how to lock down targets, they will burst and end you too instantly. Why do you think Abj always sends Nos home first for most opening splits?

Furthermore, why do druids get full Cele Avatar Force at the start of the game while necromancers have to start out with 0% life force? They’re both sustain mechanics for each of the classes, so this disparity is troubling to me.

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

Rym.1469:

It’s fun to me that when they were discussing reveal of Ventari they said they didn’t want to make it another bunker who heals, but more of a selfless healer and went with that outgoing healing increases….

Just to introduce Druid a while after which is a bunker healer.

Screw logic x)

Someone also said that every class is supposed to have a weakness..In this case rev being weak to condi like engineer. 3 days lag blog up about scrapper dd ele 2.0

What is love logic?

In the end were not olny weak to condi but also to cc while lacking any real burst/cc potential unless someone count spamming aa on quickness as a burst. Good job!

List of current Ventari weaknesses:

• Moderate condi pressure
• Any CC (specially launch/knockback)
• Heavy pressure
• Mobility

Anything to add?

Teammates that don’t want to hug the tablet could be used as team-imposed weakness.

Wasn’t saying Tempest is good for a +1 either. They’re mainly good for sustaining in even numbered fights.

As far as DHs go I’ve been able to kill them just from them being stupid enough to use true shot against a mag aura or earth focus 4.

Burtnik.5218:

nearlight.3064:

I tried shiro/mallyx on both marauder and celestial and it was really fun, however I felt extremely vulnerable to focus fire and CC while in mallyx.

I too am bored with the badness of the non-overused legends so I probably won’t play the class much until it gets fixed.

You probably will w8 for a while. We had time for buffing few months but nothing was done. As long theres one viable build they dont give a kitten about rest, thats how it been with every class so far. And cause Roy is a fan of Shiro/Glint and even said hes fine with rev in current position.. yeah it wont happen anytime soon. Its better to look for another game really.

Like holy kitten man, we have olny 15 utility skills with elite spec and they cant make them work?! At this point only 3 utility skills per legend doesnt make any sense anymore, most likely they were just lazy and we ended up with dis..shiro/glint 4ever till next elite spec.

Yeah, I’ll have to see what they do in the pre-league patch coming up. But as of now, chronomancer and reaper both hold my interest much better since I don’t have to worry about constantly feeding in fights to not fit in with the contrived, yet correct meta that herald got stuck with right off the bat.

Hmm I tried putting a random cele build together last night and it was an abject failure.

I think it’d work better with base mesmer though, just because its so hard to take boosts to healing, condition damage pressure, and mightstacking AND chronomancer all in one build for various reasons. Its similar as to how cele reaper eats kitten compared to cele necro, because they lose the synergies needed to abuse cele by dropping a traitline for their elite spec.

As of now I think chronomancer works best as either an ironic tank build, or the same burst build we’ve been pigeonholed into for all these years haha.

I tried shiro/mallyx on both marauder and celestial and it was really fun, however I felt extremely vulnerable to focus fire and CC while in mallyx.

I too am bored with the badness of the non-overused legends so I probably won’t play the class much until it gets fixed.

Tomiyou.3790:

Humblekain.5418:

blubberblasen.3901:

do not use tempest LoL
play classic dd ele
armor of earth -> walk in -> teleport out -> kill him -> gg

This is one way to get murdered vs a competent DH; classic dd is still very vulnerable to the amazing longbow damage.

Also, Tempest is totally fine for 1v1 against DH.

Tempest won’t solve problems d/d has against DH, it’s all about the weapon skills, if anything, Tempest is even WORSE against DH since you are stuck casting 4s overloads, which against any decent DH means instant death. Aftershock has too long of a CD to reflect stuff.

Tempest is a teamfighter that should be avoiding 1v1s and should try to be a secondary point holder and support and whatnot. Leave the 1v1s to the scrapers or the condi reapers or the DHs or even the daredevils.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Shiro+Glint has WAY too much sustain for the amount of burst damage it puts out.

The problem is, there’s really nothing else for revenent, all other specs are way behind. Just like ele d/d before hot. And just like eles did, rev needs nerfs to the OP spec and buffs to the underpowered ones.

Pretty much this. Mallyx makes you somewhat immune to condis if not stripped, but then CC and physical damage melts you, while Jalis has poor sustain and Ventari has poor personal sustain and no way to deal with CC.

Just think about how glorious and radiant it will be when you take off that shield, and bam! Your wings comes out and blind the enemy into fashion based submission!

Countless played a cele Mesmer build that didn’t have any might stacking at all, but instead a ton of vuln uptime so his damage was still really good.

Morwath.9817:

NeXeD.3042:

Why do I keep seeing people post stuff like no one’s using power reaper…. I know there are some people in this forum who just constantly push for condi, but it’s not really better for anything except 1v1s. And for those saying every reaper they fight is condi? Yeah people used to qq at me when I was running a berserker build because they thought I was condi lol…. from what I’ve seen the best Reapers I’ve run into have been mostly power, only ran into one good condi one so far but I really didn’t have a chance against him anyway because he is double range and I’m full melee.

Let me guess… probably because both best Necros (Leeto on EU and Nos on NA) are playing Condi Chillomancer and people will rather follow their builds than some imaginary builds?;)

Leeto best? Best at what? Best at raging on streams?

XxsdgxX.8109:

nearlight.3064:

I don’t think revenant is all that OP. The current meta build plays like a weird mix of theif and guardian, with support through boons and good ability to engage and plus a fight but can’t disengage all that well compared to a thief and they’re mostly bad for rezzing unless there’s either heavy cleave with no CC (for radiant revival) or with quickness and no cleave.

That being said 3 of the 5 legends are currently underperforming, due to lack of personal sustain and general clunkiness on Jalis/Ventari, and due to confused identity since the mallyx rework that doesn’t mesh well with corruption traits. Those legends and traitline a will need to be brought up to promote build diversity.

Burtnik.5218:

Everything is op except the class that people mains.

/thread

Except I don’t main revenant, and when I do play it I generally don’t use both glint/shiro in the same build so yeah..

I don’t think revenant is all that OP. The current meta build plays like a weird mix of theif and guardian, with support through boons and good ability to engage and plus a fight but can’t disengage all that well compared to a thief and they’re mostly bad for rezzing unless there’s either heavy cleave with no CC (for radiant revival) or with quickness and no cleave.

That being said 3 of the 5 legends are currently underperforming, due to lack of personal sustain and general clunkiness on Jalis/Ventari, and due to confused identity since the mallyx rework that doesn’t mesh well with corruption traits. Those legends and traitline a will need to be brought up to promote build diversity.

Heimdallr.7021:

Kayberz.5346:

Heimdallr.7021:

Kayberz.5346:

Stop running glint like everyone seems to insist you must. Class is plenty viable withou herald. All herald does is rotate deffensive cooldowns without any thinking required, very borring

Except people run Glint because it’s just too good to pass.

No people choose glint because its so easy and passive to play, and they can survive burst without havinhg to do anything but rotate blocks and heals.
People just like easy mode press 1 button builds

And how is that bad?

Because people are onto using 40% of the utilities available to the class and mallyx and Jalis offer a great deal of tactical and strategic strength for any build, but most people don’t take it since it’s just easier to take glint and spam boons and use infuse light.

Ventari is easily the worst legend in pvp, even with cleric, because it’s too slow for the game format. The big heals are limited by range/positioning and delayed with time. That’s too much, and the fragments are also limited by positioning. It’s a great concept and it works well in WvW and presumably raids, but it just doesn’t work in pvp because it’s too slow and it doesn’t provide the revenant with enough personal sustain compared to say Druid healing, which doesn’t have to give up a burst heal skill to move a tablet around hoping that it will pass through allies with its woefully short radius.

Demented Yak.6105:

Alternatively, you can just forget all that and spam conditions for the easiest kill you’ll ever get.

That’s why I think mallyx hides the true potential that the class really has. More people just haven’t explored it fully yet.

Shiro/Mallyx marauder is the best thing I’ve played besides the stupid glint power builds.

Well reaper counters the bandwagon herald build better than arguably anything else from being able to interrupt crystalline hibernation alone, as well as through general boon strip.

I totally agree with what you’re saying, though I prefer reaper shroud to death shroud simply because all of the skills feel impactful on any build. Condi necro couldn’t use the DS autoattack very well at all and the other skills offered only a little bit of pressure, but all of the RS skills are useful on both condi and power builds alike.

Axe is my favorite offhand by far, but it usually makes more sense to use shield on a glassy or defensive build since it becomes a third heal skill. I will say though that reapers that know what theyre doing counter shield 5 quite badly.

Reaper isn’t the worst elite spec in pvp. That honor is received for berserker since the Warriors can’t adapt to playing without fast hands.

Keep trying and I’m sure you’ll get it! If you hold down the jump button it’ll automatically let you glide, which has helped me a lot in laggy situations.

Rym.1469:

nearlight.3064:

Well the Druid pet smokescale’s smoke assault (identical skill to UA) got its hits reduced from 7 to 5, which could be a potential need to revenant in the future.

I personally wouldn’t care if they did that as long as they game mallyx, Jalis, and Ventari anything from buffs to total conceptual reworks to make them more viable in pvp. I don’t think it’s healthy that 95% of revs only use glint and shiro on each and every build.

You can’t compare pet skill to actual profession ability. It’s like saying because Bears’ Defy Pain lasts for 5 seconds, Endure Pain on Warrior should’ve beeen 5s too.

And I’d argue that nerfing Sword #3 affects non Glint/Shiro power builds even more than current popular power spec.

That’s true. All in all of mainly want to see better build diversity that can compete on the same level with power shiro/glint builds by bringing up the other legends up to par and some fixes in corruption and salvation. I don’t think the weapon skills need any major traits, just an evade on mace 3 would be appreciated.

Ventari is very interesting, however quite subpar in pvp because Ventari has poor self sustain compared to Druid, lower healing values than Druid and has a delay and strict positional requirement on all of its heals that make it way too slow for pvp.

Add this to the fact that Ventari stance makes it too easy to just focus and kill the tablet channeling rev whose busy moving it around, and you have the recipe for failure. It needs a stunbreak or some other defensive form of self sustain to be viable.

Pompeia I don’t care if they revert mallyx or not, I just want it to have better defensive capabilities in pvp so you can survive when being focused on it a little bit longer, it just shouldn’t feel like a death sentence. Anguish displacing people was the only defensive option mallyx had. Now I’d settle for a stunbreak and an elite that corrupts boons.

Well the Druid pet smokescale’s smoke assault (identical skill to UA) got its hits reduced from 7 to 5, which could be a potential need to revenant in the future.

I personally wouldn’t care if they did that as long as they game mallyx, Jalis, and Ventari anything from buffs to total conceptual reworks to make them more viable in pvp. I don’t think it’s healthy that 95% of revs only use glint and shiro on each and every build.

Autoattack and swap legends off cooldown.

I agree, tangled depths is the most creative and most beautiful map of HoT by far. Its a work of genius.

I pretty much only use staff 2 to bonk someone on the head who tries to Rez a drunken downed teammate, and follow it up with 5 so my team can cleave him out of existence.

Zeloheim.1374:

nearlight.3064:

I don’t think greatsword is a very good weapon in a condi build compared to scepter.

haha yah but the synergy with blind and chill is to good to not take greatsword, and its hybrid build, i had scepter/dagger with gs, but staff just work better for me, lay down marks then burst with shroud and gs

If it’s fun for you then by all means go for it. Though I will say that sc/wh staff is what the top tier condi reapers have chosen.

I don’t think greatsword is a very good weapon in a condi build compared to scepter.

It depends on the purpose of your build. It works great with mace in condition builds and great with sword in more offensive power or hybrid builds. Shield is powerful for survivability since shield 5 is basically a second heal skill, but I think it’s usage will decline as more people run reaper builds that haven enough unblockable CC to nullify it. I like axe because the gap closer is insanely strong damage wise and the CC is strong in a teamfights. It’s also our only truly hybrid weapon.

glaphen.5230:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnfNuNSuJ7JRJlZlsjyrS4SZVJorcsklTlRNjQOJNgEewO94rH-TJxHAB1+EAQqMAAnCAM2fAA

Haven’t actually played it but it seems like it would be better than my bunker Thief in every way besides SB5 decaps.

Is probably run settlers instead to make use of mallyxs condi pressure. Personally I’m a fan of jalis on tanky builds on general too.

Taldren.7523:

Shield 5 is worthless. The block is easily bypassed by necormancers, dragon hunters and chronomancers in addition to more rare setups of other classes. If bypassed by CC (which all listed classes have unblockable version of) it is completely negated which ends all healing and since the heal pulse is delayed you could actually end up with 0 healing. Yay for 100% drawback.

As for the comparison … Chrono shield does damage, slows attackers, provides alacrity, and doesn’t impede movement. If the shield is bypassed they can immediately recall the shield with Deja Vu.

Shield 4 is just really bad design for the class. Really think it should have been basically the Glint version of Magnetic_Surge

Well the main point of shield is the extra heal and condi management and active defense on dps builds. Still I do like axe a lot in cele builds or more offensive builds.

Aomine.5012:

Shield 4 is abit lackluster I agree (reminds me of Guardian’s old shield 4 which get buffed),but Shield 5 is VERY NICE.

The 4k AOE heal WITHOUT investment in healing is very good, and justify the rooting feature because the healing amount is just excessive.

However, I do agree shield 4 need a huge buff. Maybe add a cleansing 2 conditions on self and allies that it passes through?

Crystalline Hibernation is a self heal, not an AoE heal like Envoy of Exuberance. And condi cleanse isn’t needed, otherwise it would just be a better but different version of renewing wave on staff.

Yeah this is the type of build that would do best with warhorn, focusing on more traditionally ele gameplay and using the overloads more I frequently.

Note that pulsating pestilence is bugged and is only pulsing a single stack of torment like an EtD pulse.

I do agree that mallyx is very underrated, since it’s strong offensively but has poor active defenses compared to the shiro bandwagon. I hope they’ll buff mallyx to be less vulnerable to focus fire or give it some of its bite back from bWE2, to let it punish condi spam.