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game losing its appeal? hell no. still deeply immersed 150 hours in, and im saving the best for last (tpvp and WvW).
I’m gonna say this now so you know where I’m coming from, the Questing in GW2 is flat out the worst questing I have personally ever seen in an MMO,
i find exploration, DE’s, with sprinkles of personal story and hearts to be the best leveling experience ive ever had in an MMO. thats my opinion. we’ll all have different ones. you mention grinding 10 times in your post, and im not sure what youre talking about. i find myself flying through the levels, hardly noticing them. im so immersed in the world, which actually feels alive with events and chatter.
i actually bought GW2 for the pvp, but i find myself puttin off tpvp and WvW like a delicious piece of cake saved for last. as a result, im spending more time in PVE, which turned out to be some of the best ive experienced, even outside of MMO’s.
if i could ask for two improvements:
- a level 80 should not be 3-shotting things when leveled down; i want to go back and enjoy the low level world, i want to be challenged by it. nerf down leveling
- large DE events need to scale better in order to be more challenging for large groups, in addition to making world boss encounters more exciting and challenging.
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the weapons and pets (along with most shouts) are in a really good shape. i find pets to be really deadly. i roll with SB, skirmishing and pet mastery traits.
signets, spirits, and traps i find really bland; traps seem ok. i wish there were more druidic/nature magic abilities. the ranger seems to be a survivalist type prof.
in other words, most utility abilities are bland, while weapons and pet-related traits and skills are really cool.
First of all there are a handful of targeting bugs that we are addressing right now.
Once those are solved we will try and design a stickier targeting option for those players that want to keep their target a little bit better.
Personal tip since this happens to me a lot. I lose my target a lot because I am ground targeting and click a bunch of times to fire it off, after the skill has fired, the subsequent left clicks end up deselecting. I have started using my mouse to aim, but double tapping any ground target skills on the keyboard which has mitigated a lot of my issues.
Jon
This works perfectly for me. It’s actually a decent system. You’ll attack whatever is closest to you. If u wanna switch you’ll have to use the mouse. Tab kinda sucks.
I like perma retaliation with hammer and virtue traits. Also #2 is the best attack in the game.
GW2 is a good game just not a great game comming from GW1 it feels like a step backwards in some ways
dont care much for pve (it’s a nice bonus), but what GW1 did not have is balanced pvp and WvW. GW2 is e-sports material (very nicely balanced right off the bat, with some improvements required), combat is visceral, and it includes a superior version of RvR. just the pvp is worth the $60.
so while GW2 may be a step back in some ways (according to you, I havent played GW), it sets the foundation for many things that were unimaginable in GW, like dynamic content and balanced pvp.
in addition, i dont see anything wrong with the hearts. i think theyre great filler material in between the DE chains. I spent most of my time in Lornar’s Pass doing really fun and functioning DE’s, for example, whereas hearts were more dominant in the lower level zones.
GW2 was built for DE’s. it’s infrastructure is all about dynamically scaling content. imagine what they can do with this in the future. based on all the feedback theyve gotten, i see some amazing content patched and xpacs in the future.
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Still, devs are human beings working with limited, human-built tools so it’s inevitable that it require some work and time before they get to all this.
I have major faith in their ability, and I believe us players need to do a much better job at letting them know objective issues and leaving out personal bias as much as possible.
+1 i have lots of faith in ANet, theyve been doin a great job so far.
endgame is indeed excellent. more than any other MMO on launch by comparison. in fact, GW2’s content dwarfs everything else (if comparing release version). so much to do, and im having a blast. lots of people out there….even with the haters dispersing. everyone in my guild is having a blast (few hundred of us).
i thought u were from 4chan? basically, youre a troll because youre not willing to discuss anything. youre simply posting your opinion without sharing the reasoning behind it. when there is no reasoning, how can you be deemed rational? if youre not rational, how is this thread productive? youre not really giving ANet any useful feedback. youre just whining and complaining. and based on that, i say to you sir – start up your own company and build your own game.
OP, how would you improve PVE for an MMO, without making it a sandbox? ANet has pushed the themepark to its max, and i love questing/exploring in Tyria. to me it just sounds like youre burned out from MMO’s in general.
There many things I could say in response to this, but I’m not going to go down that road. I don’t make MMOs. I am a consumer. If I were to design MMOs, I would certainly spend a great amount of my time considering how current quest mechanics, current vertical and linear progression, could be done away with in favour of other systems, as well as look at other ways of presenting the “massively” aspect of MMOs.
just as i thought, youre just a troll. thought id humour myself anyways.
OP, how would you improve PVE for an MMO, without making it a sandbox? ANet has pushed the themepark to its max, and i love questing/exploring in Tyria. to me it just sounds like youre burned out from MMO’s in general.
vehemently disagreeing with OP right now. all GW2 needs is more PVE content (like any other MMO), tweaks to DE scaling, and an esports package (replay tools, ranks, etc.). the game is awesome and i havent been able to stop playing for4 weeks now.
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Escort the supply dolyak to Snowdrift Haven – this DE has been static for days. the dolyak and the escorts stand still at the camp.
Norn story is decent, and im really enjoying the Sylvari as well. human – too much cheese for my liking, and too many white people (im white, but white shouldnt represent humans as a culture, which it totally does in GW2). havent tried the Asuran story yet.
Sword is excellent. It hones you in on your target and third strike is a gap closer. With fury and quickening zephyr, you become a shredder. Been using sword horn since bwe1 and it’s perfect.
Oh yeah turn auto attack off u nubs
Time of courage basically resets the fight. Renewed focus does as well if you’re properly traited and it has a very low CD. What’s the problem? Rf is boring but courage makes u a cleric, and wrath a paladin for a short time.
Is it just me or does this game involve no strategy other than running back to the boss everytime you die?
Posted by: nerva.7940
Spoiler. Without the “trinity”, and everyone being able to heal a little and damage a lot, there is no easy way to make a boss challenging because every character reacts teh same.
absolutely wrong. healing a little and damaging a lot does very little for you.
mitigation people. mitigation. combo fields is where it’s at =P healing is meant to top you up in between the mobs’ nukes and your damage avoidance CD’s like Virtue of Courage, Wall of Reflection, distortion, etc.
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Is it just me or does this game involve no strategy other than running back to the boss everytime you die?
Posted by: nerva.7940
dodging as much damage as you can and then simply running back from the far away waypoint when you die (and we died allot because there was no way to avoid damage).
this is the funniest thing i read today =D let me answer your question: yes, it is you (and many other probably), and yes there is a LOT of strategy required to complete dungeons without dying so many times =P
GW2 dungeons are not your standard cakewalks that people are used to doing. this is the endgame content youre clamoring for. try doing the dungeon without dying, lol.
Why endgame PVE feels like a boring standstill (and what can be done to fix it)
Posted by: nerva.7940
i have no idea man.
Guild Wars 2 lacks a similar rewarding system for leveling up. We get basically all our weapon abilities within like the first 10 levels. Skill points don’t really feel like progression and trait points feel so minor.
SP is your reward for exploring the world, and traits make all the difference, depending on what kinda build u wanna go for. my guardian has 6 vastly different builds that are all viable in pve and spvp. i achieve this by fiddling with a thing called “traits”.
who cares about the dungeon pieces? theyre a nice bonus, but their stats are not required for anything…it’s all in your mind son.
Unfortunately I choose to buy Mists of Pandaria and will continue to play WoW. I say unfortuantely because I, like many other players that have played WoW, was looking to move on.
many WoW players have in fact moved on to GW2 and are not looking back. GW2’s release tanked WoW’s xfire numbers and theyre not coming back up. im sure they will for MoP, but i also doubt you’ll see GW2’s server pop decreasing. GW2 has its own dedicated fanbase.
thing about some WoW players is that theyre totally addicted to the carrot on a stick. this is why WoW will never die: its hooks are deep in you. if you truly just enjoyed pvp, beautiful visuals, balance, dynamic combat, interesting crafting and customization – you’d be all over GW2 for a long time. unfortunately, youre not after these things. you NEED stat-based gear progression. oh yes you do.
open betas are terrible for business. terrible. little things get blown out of proportion, story gets spoiled, etc. look at how quickly people devour these games. MMO’s cant be properly tested until release. this is a fact. this is why u do a great job with the foundation, give something to hold people over for a little while, and pump out new content.
most MMO’s fail because they dont give a “complete package” on release (did you see TOR’s endgame?), and they dont have a sustainable business model. neither of these issues is ANet’s problem.
Why endgame PVE feels like a boring standstill (and what can be done to fix it)
Posted by: nerva.7940
i get what youre saying. at 80, im going for world completion, then WvW until new DE content comes out. if youve explored the entire world and dont like WvW, then youre out of options…you played too fast. take a break, come back in 1 month, or roll an alt.
theres an amazing thread on Reddit by some player who achieved pretty much everything by leveling 3 80’s. this person wrote a nice goodbye letter, showed screenshots of his/her adventure, and said the journey was great fun. and left it at that.
it’s a brand new MMO and the PVE can be beaten in like 400 hours. what did you expect? a revolutionary, dynamic endgame zone? Orr brings some dynamism to the genre, but even that gets repetitive. thats why they gave us WvW (worth $60 bucks alone) and spvp.
re-reading your OP, i actually have no idea what youre complaining about =(
it doesnt because each zone is like a world. i tend to spend 2-3 hours at a time in a zone, and repeat the cycle until it’s 100% complete. i think of traveling between zones as traveling between worlds (taking a ship across an ocean or something).
Why endgame PVE feels like a boring standstill (and what can be done to fix it)
Posted by: nerva.7940
you can craft a legendary, do explorable dungeons, WvW, spvp, or chase after achievements. if none appeal to you, then the answer is obvious. but you dont NEED any answers, as youre just venting and this is yet another whine thread from a person who did not research the game before buying, or had way high of expectations.
Yes, this game has a LOT of really good stuff going for it
and this is what you can choose to hold onto, or let go and leave. there’s nothing anyone can say. it’s a weighing of pros and cons.
for me, market being down initially meant nothing. i dont care much for lore so the Zaitan fight doesnt impact my opinion of the game. i dont need to 100% complete everything, so i dont care about an odd glitchy DE or skill quest. etc.
youre right on all of your points. do you care enough to leave and come back a little later when the dust has settled? up to you. given your lack of experience with MMO’s, id like to emphasize that this release was the smoothest in MMO history, hands down, believe it or not (except for TSW maybe, but that game is skin and bones in comparison to what ANet achieved). if you look at the rate at which ANet is repairing the game, you might feel a little better.
The core idea of this game is that your skill is what matters… not your gear.
You can spend extra time on your 80 to get true badarse looking gear, but you’re not going to auto-win PvP and PvE because of it.No, you are just going to zerg it instead, because thats all I see in pve and pvp.
i figured these types of comments out. people hide behind the “zerg” argument due to their confusion about the game’s core mechanics, and general unwillingness to try new things. when youre kinda lost out there, you’ll join a zerg, which can be a boring experience
arguably, zerging is not a problem. not in WvW, because you will achieve more by spreading out gangs across the map to assault supply camps and towers. most of us are starting to realize this now. zerging in spvp will lead to a very quick loss. zerging in dungeons is basically impossible cuz everyone will die to aoe.
zerging in poorly scaled DE’s and aoe tagging is a problem but JP has acknowledged this and stated that theyre working on it.
the rewards are there if you put in the time and effort. however, GW2’s end game is legendary crafting, explorable dungeons, achievements, WvW, and spvp. not bad at all, lots to do (for me anyway). the game’s endgame is not gear grinding because content is not gear-dependent. i mean, you can choose to make grinding your endgame, but you likely wont be happy. if you need constant endgame “stats” progression, GW2 is not your game friends.
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I am really sorry, guys, though, I am on Tarnished Coast, and I’ve seen nothing but great populations in all areas, you’re welcome to switch.
this is actually the case with all the servers. people are essentially feeding off the whining powergamers/raiders, who rushed to 80, hit a brick wall due to skill-based dungeons and no carrot, and are currently plaguing the forums. the game is in a very decent shape considering it’s brand new.
u question the future of GW2? it’s b2p, theyve made mad profit and theyre gonna keep rolling out content this is just the beginning. im actually very excited.
the only accurate measure of population is the world selection screen. last time i checked, 12 servers are full at peak times and never more than 3 medium (actually increased compared to 2 weeks ago), and everything is crowded. overflows are rare due to most people being out of low level zones. Euro servers are also in a great shape with 5 servers full.
im impressed that half the servers are still at full capacity. the powergamers/raiders are putting in less time, according to xfire, which is expected, but there is more and more new blood coming in. people who are bored, crying about rewards, whining about endgame, etc., are always welcome to leave.
true test will be in 3 days. if MoP does not have an impact on the server pops, then we’re in a great shape. my bet is there will be a small impact, but nothing significant considering that most people are bored of WoW and WoW fanatics have already left GW2, or are about to leave (they cant faceroll the endgame content).
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there’s so much to do at endgame, it’s ridiculous. explorable dungeons are way too challenging for your average raider, so they wont do them. they’ll try the open world bosses, but these need to be adjusted as theyre zerged easily. rewards broken atm, so even more reason for them to leave.
for me, there TOO MUCH to do at endgame. i dont know what to do first: world completion, WvW, crafting, explorable dungeons, spvp, im lost most of the time.
all this being said, you are the one who decided to burn through 300+ hours of content in 3 weeks.
ele is a high skillcap prof. it’s very much fine.
it’s all about playstyle. ele has a high skill cap. the grass is always greener, remember that. guardian is easier to learn, for sure.
one more bump so it’s seen (hopefully). explosion need optimization.
dont talk to ANet like theyre Blizzard. they know what theyre doing and they have their own list of priorities. theyre probably working on a few dozen things right now and you’ll probably get several fixes in one patch.
Bloodtide Coast
DE: Protect Priory team as they search for artifacts.
one npc there, the asura. just standing around. waited 5 mins, event did not start. thanks.
45 guardian
17 mesmer
31 engineer
7 ranger
150 hours. rank 14 spvp; did a good amount of WvW as well, which stunted my leveling. 25-ish % map explored.
those with multiple 80’s are definitely not average players lol.
Who says people didn’t research though? For me, I loved the concept of it. I like the idea of ditching the trinity, of it being about skill based instead of gear, of it being an action game maybe not as good as TERA, but action-game like nonetheless.
Maybe people like the idea and it didn’t pan out?
maybe for those individuals. but this is different from saying “ANet didnt deliver”. because they did. yes, endgame is a little bugged right now, but far from non-existent (hi, other MMO’s on release).
While it looks like Cleansing Flame does a lot of damage, a sword auto-attack does about the same, maybe more in the same time it takes to perform that long channel.
as someone who uses sword/torch often, i can guarantee cleansing flame does multifold more damage than the sword autoattack. it’s a cone, and when traited, it crits. a lot.
on the hammer guardian, the autoattack chain is the main source of dps (one of the exceptions), but the spammable blast finisher completely changes your game. your job is not only to dps and cc, but also to smash fields to buff your mates.
as i outlined Draehl, if we had dps meters, we would need to use all of our abilities and combo fields to maximize our efficiency, thus making the rotation incredibly organic, spontaneous and more complex.
imagine WoW without dps meters. no dps chain priority because we could all just mash 1,1,1,1 and nobody would know =) in GW2, you could try doing that but the game just doesnt let you. if GW2 had dps meters, your rotation would be huge. i pretend there is, so my hands and mind are always busy
Again maybe with another profession. Perhaps it is just the Necro. Apparently people aren’t having this problem with Elementalist in particular.
yes necro still needs more work. theyve acknowledged this i think. there arent enough viable builds due to bugged traits, etc.
Hopefully your personal opinion will make up for lost revenue due to poor design, lack of testing and kneejerk implementation. Actually, hopefully it won’t, so that game companies will be encouraged to finish a game before selling it and advertising the game they are selling as opposed to the one they believe their fans want to play.
this is the smoothest and best MMO launch TO DATE. i need not say anything more.
you first error was prepurchasing after watching that alone. thats their vision, their philosophy. thats what they aim for. was it delivered? in my opinion, hell yes. can it be improved upon? yes. a lot.
the people who are leaving belong to a very specific crowd of raiders and powergamers who bought this on hype alone. the population is actually nicely stabilized. those who were misinformed or impartial have left, and those who played for 300-400 hours and completed everything have also left after getting their money’s worth. to be honest, based on that same manifesto, the game does not cater to such voracious consumers.
anyway, my 3 friends who have never played MMO’s are still completely immersed, and my guild of 300 people is healthy and happily grinding their legendaries and gearing up for WvW.
I hope they will keep improving GW2 like they’ve been doing since launch, but I also hope they will improve their attitude towards ALL of us. It’s called being objective and professional. To criticism and praise.
Please, devs and GMs: you are not based in Noth Korea. Don’t act like it.
i dont know why u have to bring such melodrama to such a calm thread. the reason theyre not responding to all the negative comments is that theyre busy working, get it? these guys are girls are sweatin and bleeding and putting in mad overtime hours to perfect the product, so show some respect and less self-entitlement.
things that people are critiquing, theyre probably aware of and are working on it. so why comment more on something unless youre ready to deliver it? that’s their philosophy. besides, theyve commented at least two dozen times on issues theyre aware they erred on. do you use dev tracker?
thank you. 150 hours in, 3 weeks playing. i feel like ive only scratched the surface. i get completely lost in the world. the best, WvW, is yet to come. so much awaits me.
The difference between the classes in GW2 is really significant imho. Playing my ranger with a shortbow can be super boring. It only gets interesting if either I pull more mobs at once or if the mob ignores my pet and instead goes for me.
in dungeons? have you tried adding the torch to your rotation to set your arrows on fire? or adjusting your position to fire through other fields? do you switch between your SB and axe to maximize bleed stacks? do you set spike traps? is your pet alive, are you microing it? did you try axe/dagger or sword/dagger? these are complex melee builds that require a lot of evading.
the ranger is a very simple prof, and ive also decided that it’s not for me. BUT there’s still much to do
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as i outlined Draehl, if we had dps meters, we would need to use all of our abilities and combo fields to maximize our efficiency, thus making the rotation incredibly organic, spontaneous and more complex.
imagine WoW without dps meters. no dps chain priority because we could all just mash 1,1,1,1 and nobody would know =) in GW2, you could try doing that but the game just doesnt let you. if GW2 had dps meters, your rotation would be huge. i pretend there is, so my hands and mind are always busy
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As far as GWII goes, I think combat complexity is screwed by design. WoW rotations only use 5-6 low cooldown attacks on average, but in GWII those slots are taken by utility instead, leaving 1 slot for auto-attack, 1 for a damaging attack, and 3 variables.
combat complexity is improved by design, actually. let me take you through what my hammer guardian does in a dungeon.
- #1 attack chain for symbol on 3rd hit
- smash for retaliation
- F1 for might and burning
- dodge
- #1 attack chain
- consecration to keep up burning
- smash field for might
- signet to keep up retaliation
- #1 attack chain
- dodge, smash.
- virtues for retaliation, regen and protection
- smash mate’s field for chaos armor; watch mobs get lit up by random conditions
- immobilize the oncoming warrior mob
- knock back one ranger; cast wall of reflection in front of second ranger
- smash wall of reflection for retaliation
- shift into bear form because i feel like it; CC one mob for 10 seconds.
- roar for might
- ???
- profit
this isnt even my complete dps priority procedure. it’s like 60% of it. i didnt even mention the other two utility i have (maybe another fire or light field), in addition to the other weapon set that i constantly switch to in order to mitigate damage on my mates (mace/focus).
what im trying to say is: you dont need to be scrambling for you life to be having fun in combat. if you had a DPS meter and people to impress, you’d absolutely have to do all the things im doing above in other to maximize your dps and survivability. you dont have these requirements in GW2 though, so you can just dumb it down if you choose to. but expect longer and more tedious dungeon runs.
World of Warcraft:
- 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,1,5,2,3,1,1,1
- move 3 steps to the left because there’s a red circle underneath me for some reason
- look at my dps meter to feel good about myself; glance over other green bars
- look at boss’s red bar again
- 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,1,5,2,3,1,1,1
- ???
SO COMPLEX BRO
admittedly, zerg DE’s are a problem because theyre so easy now and the bosses are so dumb. however, in these zergs, youre still doing way more than you ever would in WoW by cleansing conditions, applying boons, creating fields for burning projectiles and such, and maintaining some simplified dps priority (maybe 3-4 abilities).
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there is no “dps priority” in GW2 simply because youre too busy trying to maximize your performance (dodge, reposition, buff, cleanse conditions, smash a combo field). hitting little pictures on the bottom of your screen in a specific order is something i never wish to do in my MMO. this is why i never raided in WoW. it was…really silly to me.
did ANet ever advertise an in-depth “dps priority system”? indirectly, they called it combo fields. set them up, coordinate and watch your dps and survivability improve. profit.
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